'5000 Morris Dancers'

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:16 AM

Because this discourse seems rooted in the 'Ye Olde Englande' Golden Age of happy smock wearing peasants singing jolly folk songs & swigging cyder & mead as they danced their way to the green meadows to frolic in the haystacks with jiolly ploughboys & buxom wenches!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:19 AM

Nice reference Mr Happy. I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions to WAV about culture and nation states though. WAV seems curiously quiet when asked a hard question, doesn't he? You can almost hear the cogs turning...
Tim

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:34 AM

Hey Mr Happy.
Sounds like my sort of gig!!
When and Where??

'Ye Olde Englande' Golden Age of happy smock wearing peasants singing jolly folk songs & swigging cyder & mead as they danced their way to the green meadows to frolic in the haystacks with jolly ploughboys & buxom wenches!
(Wot No Pottage?)

Ralphie

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:47 AM

Clank, clank, clonk, Tim - Real tennis is a French invention, and Lawn tennis is an English one; and, yes, some sports have, of course, become global, and I've enjoyed watching international competitions. But whether globalisation/Americanisation/capitalisation should continue unabated is another matter.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:29 AM

WAV.

JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PUT TO YOU....

and the we can all go home...OK?

Out of here now.
You are such a sanctimonious Troll.
Would you quietly leave this place, taking your crap poetry with you.
Enough. Already.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM

Drop it, Ralphie - WAV doesn't do straight answers. I did once get a Yes (when I'd asked him, for about the third time, whether he thought England would have been a better place if there'd been much less immigration over the last 50 years). Even then it wasn't so much a 'Yes' as a "Yes inasmuch as fair trade UN questioning immigration and imperialism foreigners are great as I've said in my life's work how dare you call me a racist".

As far as WAV's concerned, all questions are trick questions: we're sneakily trying to trap him into defining what he believes in our terms, rather than letting him define it in his own terms (which involves writing lots of statements which may or may not be connected, and refusing to paraphrase any of them). Ultimately, I think he thinks we don't understand him - because if we did we'd agree with him.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:23 AM

Do you mean globalization, Americanization etc.?

Why use the later (French) import ise?

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Joe P at work somewhere else
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:41 AM

WAVs politics kind of reminds me of my friend trying to separate eggs, with his sledgehammer approach.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:00 PM

If we asked our morris dancing friends to post

Replies so fine and grand

As sure as butter slips off toast

We'd pass that five thousand

Pure poetry. And I'm very pleased with the Englishness of the butter and toast reference...but it might be Lurpack. Ah well...back to the rhymers dictionary for me....

Poetically yours
Baz

That first line doesn't quite scan...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:18 PM

Two forms of the same French game, you muppet; Lawn tennis developed from Real Tennis, as you well know; which means the ORIGINS of Lawn Tennis are French. Many other sports develop alternate forms, but share an origin; Rugby Union and Rugby League, for example. Now answer the question you are trying desperately to avoid; by your definitions, and taking the universally held view that sports are part of cultures, cultural separation of the kind you advocate means the inevitable end of international sporting competion, since only the country of origin could take part in a given sport. All other countries would be excluded, as said sport would not be part of their 'own good culture'. Is this what you are proposing? Or do you believe that it's ok for some things to be global? If so, you are arguing against yourself. Your principle of cultural separation has only ever been argued in absolute terms, and expressed aas a recommendation for the world to follow.

So, what's it to be, WAV; stick to your principle of cultural separation, and thus argue for the end of international sport, or drop the idea and admit that you hadn't really thought this through?
Tim

PS; properly maintained cogs don't make a clanking sound.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:56 PM

WAV, here is an Ukrainian band, Okean Elzy (Elza's Ocean). Do let me know if you think they sound American.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCIpbtHVmFw

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:38 PM

pip - you have a bad habit of using inverted commas such that some newbies to a thread may think they are quotes from me, when they are not.
Tim: you ignored my answer regarding what have become world sports, and globalisation/Americanisation/capitalisation. But on the latter, and in light of the present predicament of free-market capitalism:

"Within the broader music industry, and beyond, what some get for their hour's work, compared with others, is ridiculous and inhumane; hence, many relatively competent musicians within the folk-scene are really struggling to make ends meet; so, if we like fair competition, we don't like capitalism. A better way, as I've suggested in verse, is to accept that humans are competitive, and have strong regulations (partly via nationalisation) to make that competition as fair as possible – whilst also providing "safety-net" support" (from here).

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:49 PM

Of course, I didn't say or imply that WAV had actually written the words

"Yes inasmuch as fair trade UN questioning immigration and imperialism foreigners are great as I've said in my life's work how dare you call me a racist"

However, I'm happy to clarify that he didn't.

And now I really am giving up on trying to debate with a slippery deluded racist, and getting back to the real world (i.e. England).

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:55 PM

"Deluded racist" (Pip) is false and defamatory - I love our world being multicultural, have travelled through about 40 countries, studied anthropology, etc.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:58 PM

WAV, WAV, WAV, WAV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



WAV, here is an Ukrainian band, Okean Elzy (Elza's Ocean). Do let me know if you think they sound American.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCIpbtHVmFw

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:10 PM

Interesting, Volgadon. To me, they have a characteristic Europop sound, like they could come from anywhere on the European continent. To me, all pop/rock performers from the European Continent sound like ABBA. They don't sound American or English to me at all.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:45 PM

"Deluded racist" (Pip) is false and defamatory - I love our world being multicultural, have travelled through about 40 countries, studied anthropology, etc.

Racism has got nothing to do with actively hating people from a different background or wanting to impose a single culture on the whole world; I don't accuse you of either of those things.

I've already explained, at great length, why I consider the views you've expounded here to be racist. Nothing you've written has made me change my mind.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Don Firth (computer STILL in the shop!)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

It is a major regret of mine that I have never been to England. Or Scotland (land of my ancestors), Ireland, or Wales. But through the auspices of the BBC and the American Public Broadcasting System, I have watched a great deal of very high quality television drama (along with many documentaries) produced in Great Britain. These have featured such eminent British actors as Jeremy Brett, Jeremy Irons, Geoffrey Palmer, Judi Dench, Derek Jacobi, Richard Briers, Susan Hampshire, and many, many more, in addition to older actors such as Lawrence Olivier, John Gielgud, Frank Middlemass, et al.

I have seen (and heard) English actresses portray characters from Eliza Doolittle and Nancy (in Oliver Twist) to Queen Elizabeth (I and II) and Queen Victoria, along with actors portraying all classes, from farmers and serfs up through the aristocracy, and several kings (Henry V, Henry VIII, Edward VII, etc.). Dramatizations of everything from The Pallisers (the aristocracy in Victorian England) to the various filmings of the works of Charles Dickens. Currently following The Inspector Lynley Mysteries and Foyle's War, and a couple of "Brit-coms" (The Good Life, As Time Goes By--and being a fan of word-play, one of the funniest schticks I've ever heard was in The Vicar of Dibley:   CLICKY).

Granted, most of the accents I've heard on television and in movies were put on by actors, but these were all excellent actors and masters of their craft, which includes being adept and convincing at doing various accents and dialects.

In addition, in my long and checkered life, I've met a fair number of English men and women in person, and worked with several. I went to university with an English girl (the lovely Phyllis Brooks), and I shared broadcasting duties with a young Englishman who was working hard to get rid of his English accent to fit in better in American broadcasting (I encouraged him to keep his accent because in the broadcasting milieu, it would be an individual characteristic and could be an asset to him).

I've heard a whole broad spectrum of English accents.

Which of this wide variety of accents are you striving to acquire, WAV?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:13 PM

Volgadon - I thought it sounded a lot like this, which isn't European (or is it?)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:20 PM

WAV--- "'Deluded racist' (Pip) is false and defamatory - I love our world being multicultural, have travelled through about 40 countries, studied anthropology, etc."

LMAO......just blow me with that shit Wavydorf. The thing you love most is that "they" don't live next door to you! Give it up and just admit it Turkeynuts.....Go to a mirror and look at yourself while saying, "I'm a racist piece of crap." LOL.....You'll feel much better. Honesty to your own self relieves stress.

Spaw

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:40 PM

What I was trying to say is look beyond the superficialities, why, I could be more English than WAV, following his logic. I probably read more English books, listened to more English music and watched more English TV than he has...

Okean Elzy is interesting in that their melodies are based 19th and early 20th century Ukrainian folk songs, and the lyrics are very Ukrainian.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 05:20 PM

"drum kits, belted lyrics, electric and eclectic instruments...as I said above, those who do know must be more militant."

As opposed to good old pipe and tabor, a probable import from the Iberian Peninsula, or the cittern, a German instrument popular in the French court, and brought to England by Italian musicos playing European style tunes?

"...I know that English folk rarely gets a guernsey on the BBC these days, and, when it does, it's often anything but what our forebears did for centuries - e.g., not one song was sung unaccompanied during the 2 and a half hours of the "Cambridge Folk Festival" "highlights" last night."

And nobody wears wool underwear anymore either.

"(And, "with respect", IB, I have 4 technical certificates and a BA in humanities.)"

WAV, as a Christian, you might be interested in the following verse. Go ahead, look it up. Acts 4:13.

"1 and a half hours, sorry - before it was a programme on RVW - who DID respect his own good English cultural-heritage."

So, as long as the arrangement is a classical one, the use of non-English and non-traditional instruments is allowed? How is '5 Variations on Dives and Lazarus', or 'Fantasia on Greensleeves' any different to the Imagined Village in concept?

"I did listen to a bit from the Imagined Village the other night, Gervase, and, rather than "implode in a messy splutter of outrage" said I didn't like it...I'd rather imagine being in a proper English village, with traditional English music being played in a traditional English pub,...a glass of mead in hand, a clog dancer by my side, and a plate of stottie and chips on the table; and, out the window, a weeping willow licking a river's flow, as snow falls gently on a bevy of swans...
And, as for horses, J from K, I'd rather see them running free in a field..."

I didn't liked Imgained Village much, but that's because I think the arrangements didn't turn out as well as they could have. LOVE the concept.
Mead is just as Russian as it is English, in fact, it was a large part of any ancient Slavic feast.
Stotties are quite similar to thick breads found in places such as North Africa, Turkey and Georgia. A very primitive sort is baked by Bedouins in small ash pits. Chips, an import, and when someone says chips, my first thought is of Belgium, rather than England.
What happens if the traditional pub isn't built over a river, no swans reside in the area, and nobody has planted the weeping willow, a late import to England? And if the clog dancer is by your side, doesn't that mean that she can't practice her own good culture, because she is cavorting with you?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 05:28 PM

Volgadon - whatever the melody, that's Ukrainian, I think, words sung and backed in an American pop/rock style. Also, that chap has one of the pokiest backhands I've ever seen!; and, further, as I've said in my myspace blog, I don't like females playing tennis as it puts too much strain on the racket-arm...I hasten to add, mind, that I'd have no problem with the next Archbishop of Canterbury being a female.
And, as for accents, Don, as a repat, I've listened carefully to Geordie athletics commentary, and a recording of a NE chap reading a poem. However, I accept that mine is not presently a northern English accent but a mixed one...I learnt to talk with a Lancashire accent, I Australianised to some extent, and, home for over a decade now, it's gone back a bit toward northern English.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 05:53 PM

WAV in excelsis:

I don't like females playing tennis as it puts too much strain on the racket-arm... I hasten to add, mind, that I'd have no problem with the next Archbishop of Canterbury being a female.

Rough translation: "I would like thousands of people to stop doing something they enjoy, and thousands of other people to change their minds about a subject that matters deeply to them, because I say so. I know that neither of these things is going to happen, and expressing these opinions is going to have absolutely no effect on the real world. I want as many people as possible to hear them anyway, because I like starting pointless arguments and drawing attention to myself."

How come this thread's still above the line, by the way?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 05:54 PM

I didn't ignore your answer; but you still haven't answered my question. You offered an answer to an entirely different question, about global capitalism; I asked a question about cultural separation. I'm sure your University tutors advised you to read questions carefully WAV; perhaps you should go back and read my question again before spouting more rubbish. Take this as formative feedback.
Try again, but while you're thinking about it, here's another one; what physiological, neurological or anatomical evidence do you have for your incredibly patronising view that women should not play tennis because it places too much strain on the racket arm? You've offered an opinion, but fail to substantiate it with either evidence or case histories. Can you prove that women are more prone to arm strain than men from playing tennis? If not, we can put your opinion in the box marked 'patronising sexist crap'.
You play tennis, don't you? Judging by your photos, you're a bit of a weed. I bet either of the Williams sisters could break you in half without breaking sweat. (There's a few people around here would give good money to see that!). Given that they are undoubtedly much stronger than you, and they are female, (and therefore not strong enough to play) your logic suggests that you should give up tennis immediately to protect your raquet arm from further strain and damage. Logical sequences are a bugger, aren't they WAV?

I remain in vain hope of an intelligent reply
Tim

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Don Firth (computer, etc.)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 05:59 PM

"I don't like females playing tennis. . . ."

When I think of the long list of female tennis players (including Billie Jean King who ate Bobby Riggs alive back in 1973), I find that this statement boggles the mind.

And then, of course, there is figure skating: hard on the knees. Both of my sisters were champion figure skaters, and from time to time they found that their knees were sore after a long practice session working on jumps.

And then, of course, there is ballet dancing: very hard on the ankles, and many ballerinas have developed micro-fractures in their lower legs. . . .

Poor fragile females. They should be packed in cotton and not allowed to move, lest they injure themselves

(My first fencing teacher was a woman. Small build, quite feminine, but she could walk through doors without having to bother to open them.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:28 PM

Actualy, WAV, if you listen carefuly, you will find that the phrasing and delivery is very Ukrainian, and very clearly drawn from their tradition. Listen to Ukrainian romances of the early 1900s. Yes, Vakarchuk does sing a bit faster than was the norm, but he wasn't living in 1920 either. If we had a time machine, I'm sure any of the great singers of the 20s and 30s would be able to recognise the traditional elements. After all, they themselves brought the traditions forward in their own days.
The video is, of course, silly. Vakarchuk doesn't take himself too seriously. I thought you would be more distressed by the wanton destruction of tennis rackets than by the girl with the weird eyes, honestly.



This one is a cover of an Ivasyuk song. Volodimyr Ivasyuk, for those not in the know, was a very talented violinist and composer, who composed dozens of songs in the 60s and 70s. Some of them are very much pop songs of their time, others, like Chervona Ruta, almost sound like folksongs and are an important part of Ukrainian culture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2QlH5pfhss

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:30 PM

"I don't like females playing tennis as it puts too much strain on the racket-arm...I hasten to add, mind, that I'd have no problem with the next Archbishop of Canterbury being a female."

As long as she doesn't play tennis.......

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:58 PM

"You want a bonny clog dancer by your side sipping mead whilst watching swans gliding on the willow licked waters of The Ouse Burn? Trust me, self-publishing contentious & entirely subjective polemic ne'er won fair lady.:"

It worked on NADEZHDA KRUPSKAYA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,ruth on her cookieless iPhone
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:56 AM

wavey, why don't you simply agree to live by this arbitrary set of rules you've invented, and let everyone else live the way they want to? Why is it that you think you have the right to tell others how to live their lives, especially when you have had so little real life experience of your own? Despite your celebrated travel and shoestrings, you've not been married, you've not had children, but you will dictate to others who have done thesethings about how they should live. You tell people who have lived in England all their lives how they should define their own identity. You are no musician (picking out painful melodies on a plastic recorder does not make a musician) yet you tell people who have been playing for 20 or30 years what and how they ought to be playing.

Tellya what. Just lead by example. Keep living on Barbara Allen and pottage. If your life is that inspirational, no doubt your acolytes will find you.

By the way, past generations didn't choose to eatpottages. They didn't have a choice. They ate meat whenever they could get it. So why not getout there and bag a hare for tea.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:04 AM

Having been away from my 'puter for the last day, I have to say that this thread is getting funnier by the minute.

Blimey, Female Tennis Players??
Come on WAV, what's your next great vision?

What's next?

Banning foreign fruit perhaps?
Oh Please WAV, don't stop now. I want to really understand the full extent of your prejudices. (sorry, that should read meaningful insights on the human condition)
This has been the funniest and (tangentially) one of the most interesting threads in ages.
Let's here it for WAV.......Hip, Hip.......

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:10 AM

From France we do get brandy, from Jamaica comes rum,
Sweet oranges and lemons from Portugal come;

Send 'em all back where they belong, I say.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:23 AM

I'll stick a 'hooray' in there Ralphie! The more bizarre the views expressed, the more ridiculous our racist and now sexist friend appears. Have you noticed he's getting even less keen to answer questions? Do you think the hopelessness of his political manifesto is starting to dawn...?
Tim (still waiting for answers to my questions about cultural separation and the evidence for women not playing tennis...)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:30 AM

I said the prayer which I prefer to attribute to Sinead O'Connor (though it's actually much, much older and actually paraphrases Cicero) on this thread long ago:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference

WAV's a deluded racist nutter though relatively harmless in the scale of iniquitous tripe spouted on this forum. The really dangerous racists crawl out in the run-up to 23 April in the name of "patriotism". Far more insidiously dangerous is the undercurrent of sexism and trivialisation of women musicians currently surfacing on the Winterset thread (not to mention tennis players) and the pervading cabal of those (usually the same ones) who whinge that any old out-of-tune, poorly performed dross is "good enough for f*lk" and anyone can do it. It isn't and they can't.

You cannot change the reality that WAV-like loonies are on the loose. It's called "care in the community". But you can (and must) change patronising and derogatory attitudes towards women (and everyone else who is not a white English bloke) as well as and ill-considered and demeaning views of trad music, because both are essential elements of what being part of England today actually is.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:37 AM

Hear, hear Diane; well said. As an aside, I always thought that particular prayer was attributed to St Augustine, but that could be just my Catholic forebears nicking a good lyric...
Regards
Tim

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:56 AM

It's the Christians I feel sorry for. If they're right, they're going to be spending eternity with WAV!

Of course Christianity is demonstrably non-English and was historically proactively anti "English culture" and the Roman version Augustine brought was also anti the local "British" cultural version of Christianity. St. Augustine of course came from Rome and so according to WAV should never have been let in in the first place.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 04:56 AM

No No No gentle readers.
Please Oh Great WAV.
Tell us more of the truths that have been handed down to you from "Olde Englande" (Or should that read Australia?)
Please Oh Great One.
You are so obviously the Way, the Light, and the Truth.
My knee is bended, and my loins are girded in expectation....

(Have you got the message yet?.......No?.....Ho Hum, No change there then)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:01 AM

St Augustine was a North African and a bit of a lad until converting to Catholicism later in life to please his mother. He was a true advocate of multiculturism and religious toleration and in thus revered in many faiths. On the other hand, WAV seems to have been heavily influenced by narrow Calvinism.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:29 AM

From: Diane Easby
St Augustine was a North African and a bit of a lad until converting to Catholicism later in life to please his mother. He was a true advocate of multiculturism and religious toleration and in thus revered in many faiths.

Different Augustine I think

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:43 AM

Different, in that I think you mean the Emperor Augustus.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 06:13 AM

My fault; the quote wasn't attributed to Augustine of Hippo, or to Augustus; the best I could find was Reinhold Neibuhr, theologian, 1934, and I suspect he had it from Cicero as Diane suggests.
Tim

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 07:33 AM

Why is it that a thread dedicated to rescuing our tradarts from the twin evils of fascism and mediocrity (not that I for one moment suggest that this was the OP's intention)is kicked into the basement when another, about talking bollocks around a kitchen table, is allowed to meander on upstairs to close on 2,000 posts about (apparently, though I haven't read it), sod all?

Keeping our music out of the clutches of racists and fascists and those who just don't care OUGHT to be our prime concern. Should be, but isn't as far as some are concerned.

Re: the prayer (possibly) of St Augustine. Sinéad O'Connor recites this as the intro to Feels So Different. I vaguely recall that the liner notes attribute it to a saint but I can't remember which.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 07:41 AM

I suggested BSing this thread - it hasn't been a music thread for some time, if it ever was.

Re the prayer, it seems to have been in oral circulation in the early C20, but hasn't been traced back any further (Wikipedia article here). If it could justifiably be attributed to anyone with a St before their name, I think we'd have known about it by now.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 07:45 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_hippo#Influential_quotations_from_Augustine.27s_writings

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: peregrina
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 08:00 AM

Augustine of Canterbury, sent from Rome by Gregory the Great, and Augustine of Hippo are different Augustines...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 08:11 AM

The prayer is a favourite of 12-steppers everywhere, which is probably how Sinead first encountered it...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 08:22 AM

Shouldn't naff stuff about saints, popes and Roman emperors be in aforementioned, musically irrelevant small talk thread (which should be down here, if anywhere), while vitally important issues such as the future direction of the tradarts and their salvation from also aforementioned evil threats be reinstated the main forum where they belong? It isn't just the hapless WAV who spouts these appallingly inhumanitarian, illiberal views and try to hijack trad music to reinforce their vile, pseudo-nationalistic arguments. There are others who do it far more convincingly (to some) and they need countering. Constantly.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 08:27 AM

Is 12-stepping a kind of traditional dance? Are we back to the 2012 opening ceremony? And is it English?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 09:01 AM

"what physiological, neurological or anatomical evidence do you have for your incredibly patronising view that women should not play tennis because it places too much strain on the racket arm? You've offered an opinion, but fail to substantiate it with either evidence or case histories. Can you prove that women are more prone to arm strain than men from playing tennis? If not, we can put your opinion in the box marked 'patronising sexist crap'.
You play tennis, don't you? Judging by your photos, you're a bit of a weed. I bet either of the Williams sisters could break you in half without breaking sweat. (There's a few people around here would give good money to see that!). Given that they are undoubtedly much stronger than you, and they are female, (and therefore not strong enough to play) your logic suggests that you should give up tennis immediately to protect your raquet arm from further strain and damage." (Mando "formative feedback" Tim) - strapping, injuries, bulged veins, etc...and, yes, the top females probably would beat me, the "weed" (Tim), just an A-grade junior, weighing-in as a middle-weight, in boxing terms, at 74kg, with my clubfoot and slow pace around the court - but that does NOT alter my above argument. Let me put it this way, if and when I'm working as a production manager, I'd have no problem being under a reasonable female MD (note no !) BUT, on the shopfloor, if I saw (pardon the poetry), a lady about to lift a 25kg bag of raw material, I'd stop her and do it myself.

"And then, of course, there is ballet dancing: very hard on the ankles, and many ballerinas have developed micro-fractures in their lower legs" (Don)...

Poem 192 of 230: A SECOND BALLET - WINTER 2001/2

"Swan Lake," at a House overseas;
    "The Nutcracker," in Sunderland:
Two poetic-motion stories -
    That leave on limbs, though, a strong brand..?

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Ruth!! yes, I'm single but have been married, without having children.

To Snuffy and Ralphie - fair-trade is very much a part of the WAV way, remember.

Tim again: there's job searching, tunes to work-out and memorise, and Lawn tennis on the tv - BBC, Davis Cup; and, Diane, NEWS, which involves "experts" suddenly talking about the kind of REGULATIONISM that I've been advocating for years - yes, I try and keep my sense of humour through the barrage, but you're the one deluding yourself, frankly.

"It's the Christians I feel sorry for. If they're right, they're going to be spending eternity with WAV!

Of course Christianity is demonstrably non-English and was historically proactively anti "English culture" and the Roman version Augustine brought was also anti the local "British" cultural version of Christianity. St. Augustine of course came from Rome and so according to WAV should never have been let in in the first place." (woody)...

Poem 219 of 230: FURTHER ANTI-IMPERIALISM

Let each Christian nation have its own Church -
Equal, before God, with the others' Search.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Now, back to the second rubber, brethren, if I may...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 09:32 AM

Still waiting for an answer WAV; if you can draw yourself away from watching Austrians failing to practise their 'own good culture' on the TV for a while, please re-read my question about cultural separation and the effect of your ideas on international sport.

With respect to my second question, I didn't say that the Williams sisters would beat you at tennis; I said they were stronger than you; your argument seems to be that no women are strong enough to play tennis without too much strain on the racquet arm; by that logic, you are therefore not strong enough to play tennis, as you are not as strong as a specific woman. The usual argument about logical fallacy does not hold here, as you failed to distinguish between the general and the specific when referring to women playing tennis. You still haven't produced any evidence to support this assertion, merely listed some injuries suffered by both men and women from playing tennis. The salient point here is whether there is a difference in seriousness or frequency of strain injuries in tennis according to gender, and this has not been demonstrated by you. Can you point me to a randomised, controlled trial (peer reviewed of course)where this has been shown to be the case?

With reference to your hypothetical female employee lifting 25kg; this has nothing to do with the question; you raised the specific question of women playing tennis, and I am challenging you to substantiate what many people feel to be a false and offensive statement. So far, you have not done so.

Go away and do your homework, please. Better still, just go away.
Tim