'5000 Morris Dancers'

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:17 AM

'genital associations....'

they call 'em clubs for swingers...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:31 AM

'doesn't a huge green man usually have a stiff something else? I'd like to see that...'

Thats a great idea - leading the parade - that bloke out of Viz magazine, who carries his willy round in a wheelbarrow.

That never even occurred to the Chinese.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:32 AM

looks like an upside down lady with pendulous breasts

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: lady penelope
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:34 AM

"doesn't a huge green man usually have a stiff something else? I'd like to see that...
x "

*G*

Green men, morris dancers... What they hey, let's throw the whole thing over to a fertility ritual and have done with it....We can get Ronald Hutton to 'catherd' the Druids into overseeing it... Or the Archbishop of Canterbury, he's nearly druish... *G*

And NOBODY should ever have to dance to 'English country garden'....shudder...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:45 AM

looks like an upside down lady with pendulous breasts

Definitely buttocks, Stu - I've been studying it for quite a while now!    Others maintain the figure is of a male, licking his own anus, but on closer examination you can see the tongue entering quite evident, though much eroded, labia majora, which makes this carving quite unique.

I'll PM you with the location so you might check it out for yourself; so much of this stuff is getting vandalised at the moment that locations become guarded secrets!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Alan Day
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 01:18 PM

It is a woman with pigtails,nothing sexual about that.
Now back to Muffin.
Al

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 04:42 AM

And NOBODY should ever have to dance to 'English country garden'....shudder...

I still play this on pipe & tabor; got it off one of those old FolkTrax cassettes as performed by P'n'T revivalist Kenworthy Schofield. Been a while since I played it for a side, though I'm sure I did once, along with Idbury Hill, Lads a Bunchum, and Jimmy Allen (a distant relative of mine, and thousands of others...)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:59 AM

I'd like to hear that, IB...do you have the pipe in your left hand/tabor-stick in right?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: fat B****rd
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:14 AM

Archie Andrews !! So it was Ronald Chesney who didn't throw a mouth organ my way. I've been blaming Larry Adler for years.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:29 AM

do you have the pipe in your left hand/tabor-stick in right?

Pipe in the left, with the drum (currently a smallish Turkish dumbek tuned to A, the pipe being one in G by the late Bernard Overton) played with the fingers of my right hand. When I stand to play (storytelling al fresco) I use a still smaller dumbek struck with a bodhran beater made by Harvey of Tyneside back in 1982 (whatever happened to Harvey? He was always around The Bridge and the Irish Centre - excellent beaters!). In either case I use a string of Nepalese ankle bells such as occasionally turn up in Knock on Wood in Leeds from time to time. Worth a look is Knock on Wood, caters for all the diverse ethnic communities so you find all sorts of weird and wonderful things in there, though perhaps not quite so many as when it was in the Dark Arches in the days when the Dark Arches was a lace of genuine wonderment! It (Knock on Wood) still remains the vibrant heart of a truly multi-cultural community.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:47 AM

The man out of Viz with his willy in wheelbarrow painted green, followed by the woman with pendulous breasts upside down - this promises to be quite a show....!

You might even get away with some folkmusic. it would be a bit like the opening bars of Springtime for Hitler, so many jaws would be dropping they wouldn't notice the music.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:58 AM

the woman with pendulous breasts upside down

That's her arse, WLD - her body's bent double as she licks her own pussy. Maybe once an attraction at your average medieval fair (one does hear such tales after all), but as an Olympic sport??

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 07:11 AM

"do you have the pipe in your left hand/tabor-stick in right?" (me)

"Pipe in the left, with the drum (currently a smallish Turkish dumbek tuned to A, the pipe being one in G by the late Bernard Overton) played with the fingers of my right hand. When I stand to play (storytelling al fresco) I use a still smaller dumbek struck with a bodhran beater made by Harvey of Tyneside back in 1982 (whatever happened to Harvey? He was always around The Bridge and the Irish Centre - excellent beaters!). In either case I use a string of Nepalese ankle bells such as occasionally turn up in Knock on Wood in Leeds from time to time. Worth a look is Knock on Wood, caters for all the diverse ethnic communities so you find all sorts of weird and wonderful things in there, though perhaps not quite so many as when it was in the Dark Arches in the days when the Dark Arches was a lace of genuine wonderment! It (Knock on Wood) still remains the vibrant heart of a truly multi-cultural community." (IB)...you don't worry that, if everyone fused musics to the extent that you do, the world would be less diverse and interesting..?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Joseph P
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 07:17 AM

No, I think it would be a hell of a lot more diverse and interesting. Music is not like paint, when its all mixed together it doesn't all come out brown!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 05:53 PM

I think you're wrong, Joseph, and I think what I just watched on BBC4 was wrong; i.e., it was showing a Cambridge rock, pop, and fusion festival - NOT a Folk Festival.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 05:04 AM

...drum kits, belted lyrics, electric and eclectic instruments...as I said above, those who do know must be more militant.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 05:26 AM

(IB)...you don't worry that, if everyone fused musics to the extent that you do, the world would be less diverse and interesting..?

No I don't. On the contrary - I think it would be more diverse & more interesting. To me music is about the celebration of humanity in terms of individuals rather than the vile racist volkish segregations that you promote & believe in. I am but one individual, doing what I do for whatever reason which isn't about any sort of cultural shit at all, but my own perception of things and my right as an individual human being to do whatever I want to do.

And I'm not really fusing anything, just looking for practical (and aesthetical) solutions to practical (and aesthetical) problems. The Dumbeks I use a) because they have plastic heads and are, therefoe, generally weatherproof; b) they're entirely tuneable; c) they sound good; d) they're relatively inexpensive, unlike a Genuine English Tabor, made by some specialist maker of Revived & Early Folk Instruments which would cost an arm and a leg and sound no better than hitting a Corn Flakes box. The dumbeks also look beautiful. Likewise the Kemence, which I use because I wanted a fiddle I could use for al fresco storytelling, out in the woods, at night, wherever - something lightweight, with a good sound etc. so it answered that need perfectly. That I then found it was the ideal thing for accompanying the singing of of Traditional English (speaking) Folk Song & Ballads was serendipitous in the extreme. I don't play Turkish music on it, not yet even try to do what traditional Turkish Kemence players do; although I might study their technique, the music I do is either entirely traditional in terms of English (speaking) Folk Song & Ballad, or else entirely improvised.

As Harry Partch said: This is my trinity: Sound-magic, Visual Beauty & Experience Ritual

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 05:26 AM

those who do know must be more militant

With respect, WAV - you know fuck all.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 05:39 AM

...I know that English folk rarely gets a guernsey on the BBC these days, and, when it does, it's often anything but what our forebears did for centuries - e.g., not one song was sung unaccompanied during the 2 and a half hours of the "Cambridge Folk Festival" "highlights" last night.
(And, "with respect", IB, I have 4 technical certificates and a BA in humanities.)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 06:11 AM

1 and a half hours, sorry - before it was a programme on RVW - who DID respect his own good English cultural-heritage.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: melodeonboy
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 07:08 AM

I didn't manage the full 1 1/2 hours. Boredom set in!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 11:39 AM

I know I'm just asking for it again, but WAV-you are being brought up on your lack of knowledge of living traditional music and the way that it works, not on your general qualifications.
The reason I challenge you is because I do know, and I have always been militant about these matters. You do not know enough to be a convincing ambassador. You irritate people with your methods and you don't have the necessary information to back them up. That's all. Put simply, you're not helping. Learn more, mate. About social skills as well as the thing you love, and then you'll be genuinely useful to the thing you love. Don't say you want to see a green man and then say actually, I don't even know what that entails. That's tokenism. It's extraordinarily shallow. Is that our good English culture?
5,000 Morris dancers and the upside down lady and the bloke from Viz would definitely be something I would go and see. Because an important part of our good English culture is a good sense of humour.
   Don't be like the joke I just heard...why do folk singers put their fingers in their ears? Because they only want to hear themselves.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:02 PM

"Because an important part of our good English culture is a good sense of humour."...(EC)..we agree on that - on this very thread I mentioned traditional English wit and, although you may think my humour is not so good, I do attempt it now and again.
I thought things had gone a tad light-hearted around that Green Man post, so I went along with it; however, I wasn't joking when I said I'm no expert on the Green Man (I know a bit more on the Rainbow Serpent of Aboriginal Australia, e.g., which I did study during my anthropology major)...about all I do know on the Green Man is here on Wiki.
I think I do listen, and I make conclusions that go against some of the paths you've taken these last few years: I don't like the Imagined Village; I did like the Sage Christmas gig you and your family, etc, did a couple of years ago, e.g.
And Melodeonboy and me are not alone on this - a uni lecturer here said to me his problem with fusion music was not political but aesthetic.
Finally, if you want to try and duet some English music sometime, I won't put my finger in my ear!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 03:42 AM

(And, "with respect", IB, I have 4 technical certificates and a BA in humanities.)

Knowledge, or even being in the know, was never a matter of academic achievement, especially when it comes to those subjects in which one isn't qualified, nor yet would appear to have any clear understanding of whatsoever, and yet in which you still - bizarrely, absurdly & infuriatingly - persist. What have there is not knowledge, WAV - it is a heap of cantankerously misinformed bugbears made all the more distasteful by the racist sentiments upon which they are based.      

about all I do know on the Green Man is... on Wiki.

The Wiki page, as with a lot of Wiki pages, is, to be generous, a tad misleading. For a more thorough overview of the issues check out both of the Green Man threads on Mudcat, and you might like to read my own wee introduction to the subject (as published in Folk Leads) which is currently on-line (in PDF format) as The Devil in the Details.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 05:51 AM

IB - you are pro-immigration plus pro-fusion and, because you are an extreme case, lacking in formal education, you take to branding anyone who questions them as a "racist". There IS a difference between questioning immigration plus fusion music and being a racist. I, e.g., love the world being multicultural.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Gervase
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 06:23 AM

because you are an extreme case, lacking in formal education
For plain, patronising and arrogant bloody rudeness, that just about takes the biscuit.
But I suppose it's what one can expect from someone who makes the boast - without apparent irony - that he has four technical certificates and Bugger All in Humanities. Reminds me of the folk who say that Nick Griffin can't be all bad because "after all, he did go to Cambridge".
If traditional music has friends like WalkaboutsVerse, it certainly doesn't need any more enemies.
Tell you what, Mr Doggerel, why not just listen to "The Imagined Village" project and then just implode in a messy splutter of outrage and do us all a huge favour? It's certainly something I'd travel to see - though, just by reading the Mudcat I can at least enjoy the prospect of a pisspoor 'poet' disappearing up his own arse on a regular basis.
To plagiarise a phrase from that other great polymath and patriot, Richard Littlejohn, "Honestly, you couldn't make it up!"

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 07:31 AM

I hope those responsible for the Olympic Games to be held in London in 2012 will have the good sense to ensure that beautiful Greenwich Park is not used for the horses (there are already purpose built venues available), Her Majesty opens the event with three rousing choruses of "The Barley Mow" and a cry of "Let the games begin"(that should be enough) and Pearly Queens are in attendance with both Morris dancers, Pipers and members of the Fire Brigade collecting for charity!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 08:37 AM

I did listen to a bit from the Imagined Village the other night, Gervase, and, rather than "implode in a messy splutter of outrage" said I didn't like it...I'd rather imagine being in a proper English village, with traditional English music being played in a traditional English pub,...a glass of mead in hand, a clog dancer by my side, and a plate of stottie and chips on the table; and, out the window, a weeping willow licking a river's flow, as snow falls gently on a bevy of swans...
And, as for horses, J from K, I'd rather see them running free in a field...
Poem 146 of 230: HORSES FOR COURSES?

To some, in income-anticipation,
    Horse-balking at gates is a small debase;
To me, it seems a memory/fear case
    Over the coming whip-castigation.
To some, the winning jockey's elation
    Is the highlight of an ended horserace;
To me, the horse's bulged veins and scared face
    Undermine the winners' celebration.
I can't condone a punter's desire
    To gamble rather than earn a living,
    But can acknowledge a jockey's courage;
I can't see and think as a raced sire,
    Nor feel the scrapes hedges are giving,
    But find horses choiceless in their bondage.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: lady penelope
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:19 AM

Bubble Boy.....

I'll get me groat....

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Joseph P
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 03:58 AM

WAV, whilst watching the Cambridge FF highlights, did you hear Benjamin Zephaniah's description of what it means to be British?

And a diet of stottie & chips with mead wouldnt be too good for your health, if you eat that sort of crap all the time I would go see a Doctor.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:15 AM

I'm beginning to get the impression that WAV and Lizzie Cornish are one and the same person.
This out-moded, dated, pastiche of an England that never was, and never could be is too sickly to stomach anymore.
2 Points, What the hell is a "bevy of Swanns" when they're at home?
Never seen a Swan in a pub in my life. (plenty hanging outside!)
As for, "I'd rather see horses running free in a field"
Not sure how you'd award the medals in the Show Jumping section.
Please WAV, you really ought to stop digging this hole. You are looking ever so slightly silly now.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:38 AM

Oh.
And a "Proper English Village" had it's "Proper English Pub" closed down 10 years ago, along with it's "Proper English Post Office", "Proper English Bus Service", "Proper English Corner Shop".
And most of the houses there are owned by wealthy city types, as a weekend retreat, making most of them ghost towns Monday to Friday.
You ought to go and visit a few sometime.
Even the "Proper Village Idiot" has probably recieved an ASBO

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 05:10 AM

IB - you are pro-immigration plus pro-fusion

Pro-reality in other words, WAV. There is no such thing as cultural purity - the Cultural Health & Diversity of Planet Earth is entirely the consequence of (and entirely dependent on) Human Migration. Even as individuals we're not Culturally Pure, nor even Ethnically Pure; no one is, WAV - not even you.

and, because you are an extreme case

If the cap fits...

lacking in formal education

What I actually lack is a higher education, but I will accept this as a compliment coming from one who, despite the obvious glories of his academic achievements, consistently demonstrates, publishes and promotes his complete & utter ignorance in the matters on which he feels he knows best.

you take to branding anyone who questions them as a "racist".

Fucking right I do - especially in this case, because you are.

There IS a difference between questioning immigration

It is not just your questioning of immigration that brands you as a racist (although it is a fair indication) it is also your volkish obsessions with cultural / ethnic purity and nationhood coupled with your erroneous belief that, as a consequence (and I quote) English culture is taking a hammering and, when people lose their own culture,society suffers. Thus it might be be shown beyond any shadow of a doubt that by your own published admission you are, indeed, a racist.

I, e.g., love the world being multicultural.

This is a specious rhetoric you have in common with all racists, WAV; it might well be considered as your defining racist qualification.

I'd rather imagine being in a proper English village, with traditional English music being played in a traditional English pub,...a glass of mead in hand, a clog dancer by my side, and a plate of stottie and chips on the table; and, out the window, a weeping willow licking a river's flow, as snow falls gently on a bevy of swans...

White birds, white snow, white bread, white chips, a white clog dancer; we get the message, WAV, loud & clear.

As for the Weeping Willow, however... first introduced to Britain from a German nursery in about 1908; a hybrid of garden origin, between a Chinese species, Salix babylonica and the White Willow, Salix alba. Interesting choice.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 05:20 AM

Now Children. Let's be nice to each other.

Slight gear change.
Once saw a Rastafarian Morris dancer...Wow! did those dreadlocks move!

Seconds out......Round 45!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 05:31 AM

From Diane Easby:

"I could have got a real Welsh chapel harmonium on eBay the other day. I stopped bidding when the stakes suddenly shot up (as they do) but kicked myself when it went at only £102"

Diane - I picked up an ex-Birmingham chapel harmonium for £75 on eBay recently. If you're interested in having it for what I paid, send me a PM. It works fine but I'd underestimated the space available in my music room! (Might just have to look out for that Bontempi). I'm in Sussex, so could deliver...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 06:32 AM

"I'm beginning to get the impression that WAV and Lizzie Cornish are one and the same person.
This out-moded, dated, pastiche of an England that never was, and never could be is too sickly to stomach anymore.
2 Points, What the hell is a "bevy of Swanns" when they're at home?
Never seen a Swan in a pub in my life. (plenty hanging outside!)
As for, "I'd rather see horses running free in a field"
Not sure how you'd award the medals in the Show Jumping section.
Please WAV, you really ought to stop digging this hole. You are looking ever so slightly silly now."...(Ralphie)...Bevy: flock or group of swans; and I said "out the window"; I'd ban show jumping and, like Cromwell, horse racing; so who's "looking ever so slightly silly now"?...I think you should join IB in some adult education aimed at improving one's ability to interpret things more clearly...
"White birds, white snow, white bread, white chips, a white clog dancer; we get the message, WAV, loud & clear."...(IB)...another misinterpretation from someone who lives in a democracy but thinks anyone who dares to question immigration should be branded a racist.

And to Will and Diane: I too hope to try a harmonium one day - at the moment I play just the tune on electric keyboards or, occasionally, "plead to play a pub's proper piano" (here).

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 08:24 AM

I think you should join IB in some adult education aimed at improving one's ability to interpret things more clearly...

WAV - once more...

My criticisms are entirely based on your published writings, and not directed against you personally. By publishing such offensively contentious & ill-considered crap, you are inviting interpretation, criticism and, indeed, the ridicule you seem (for whatever reason) to revel in. On the other hand, by commenting on my lack of a higher education, you are making a personal, and potentially hurtful, attack, especially given the reasons for that, which I'm sure you're aware of*. Please note, I do not comment on your abilities as a singer or instrumentalist; nor yet on your technical accomplishments in the field of poetry; neither would I ever dare to mention that a comb-over is as good as a syrup with respect to drawing attention to ones folically challenged bonce; just as I would never ever question why anyone with such a professed love of Traditional English Folk Singing would rather stay at home listening to the radio those nights that some of the finest singers in that particular field gather at his local folk club, which is held, incidentally, in one the few remaining Traditional English Village Pubs in Tyneside, o'er looking (as it does) the willow-licked waters of The Ouse Burn where swans glide (by the bevy) and many the night I've had a Traditional English Clog Dancer by my side. These things I do not mention, personal as indeed they are, so please, leave my education, or lack of same, as you perceive it, out of this.

* For the curious... For a working-class lout coming of age in the failing coal-fields of South-East Northumbria in the mid-late 1970s university was hardly an option. When I did eventually make it to Durham University as a mature student some fifteen years ago (to read for a single honours in English Language & Linguistics) my academic career was cut short by Myalgic Encephalitis following on from a severe infection that set in after my vasectomy. I have no beef with any of this by the way; ME is a reality of my life, likewise the consequent asthma, obesity, and the horrors of Vaso Vagal Syndrome; it is simply a matter of careful management, but in terms of social-class, one does carry a degree of stigma by not having a degree, especially working as I do in areas where most of my colleagues are graduates, such as my dear darling wife, who has two.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:43 AM

Hi Mr Beard.
I'm a filthy Londoner, but, I see where you're coming from.
Let's just leave Mr Troll WAV to his strange delusions of a misguided vision of Albion....
As for us...Happy to stand you a pint sometime!
Name your place, and your poison.
Kind regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Joseph P
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 11:05 AM

I found a few months working behind a bar was just as much of an education as three years studying Philosophy at University! Sadly I discovered that writing what I thought the lecturer wanted to read was more successful than writing a good piece of work.

It seems to me that the education system rewards those that are good at retaining and spewing out certain information than those good at forming logical arguments. My time at University turned me into a bit of a pessimist!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 01:42 PM

"My criticisms are entirely based on your published writings, and not directed against you personally" (IB)...falsely calling someone a "racist" is not only defamatory but personal; and, in my defence, I've had to criticise you for your lack of ability to analyse such matters clearly, which formal study can improve our ability at. I'll try again - there IS a difference between questioning immigration and being racist; and I've only repeatedly questioned the act of immigration itself - NOT any particular culture or race. Two adults rarely or never agree on everything, and what I do admire in you is your enthusiasm for music, and your zest for life in general.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:06 PM

in my defence, I've had to criticise you for your lack of ability to analyse such matters clearly, which formal study can improve our ability at

Don't make me laugh. I've got a doctorate and I think your arguments are shallow, confused and deluded. I've seen no lack of ability in IB's comments, merely an entirely commendable persistence in disagreeing with you.

there IS a difference between questioning immigration and being racist; and I've only repeatedly questioned the act of immigration itself

There is a difference between being racist and questioning immigration for economic reasons, say, or for political reasons. But, as several of us have repeatedly pointed out, you question immigration on racial grounds. You want fewer people with the wrong kind of suntan to be allowed entry to England's green and pleasant land. It doesn't take a degree to work out that that's a racist attitude.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:23 PM

Incidentally, I'm passionate about keeping English traditional music alive - or rather, keeping alive the tradition of keeping English traditional music alive. By which I mean, there's no point denying that the tradition is at one remove now - I've never met a ploughboy or seen a top-sail hoisted - so there is a Sealed Knot element to what we do. But the music still rings out - some of the peak experiences of my life in the last couple of years have involved a lot of voices in a little room.

But what that's got to do with trying to stop people moving around with a view to keeping their different cultures distinct... well, nothing, is what it's got to do with it.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM

'I'd rather imagine being in a proper English village, with traditional English music being played in a traditional English pub,...a glass of mead in hand, a clog dancer by my side, and a plate of stottie and chips on the table; and, out the window, a weeping willow licking a river's flow, as snow falls gently on a bevy of swans...'

well piss off there!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM

Besides, everyone knows it's a swither of swans.

While you're there, WLD, I thought this comment summed the whole thing up:

its aleady been decided by radio 4, the house of commons, a select committee of ex public schoolboys and Andrew lloyd webber - so I'm afraid its bollocks to you lot - multicultural and otherwise.

And that's how England works. get used to it.

Its just bound to be awful. that's how we do things. Its traditional.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 05:41 PM

I've never met a ploughboy or seen a top-sail hoisted - so there is a Sealed Knot element to what we do. But the music still rings out - some of the peak experiences of my life in the last couple of years have involved a lot of voices in a little room.
Thanks for that, Pip Radish; a lovely turn of phrase which I shall steal quite shamelessly. Well put!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 05:59 PM

'I've never met a ploughboy or seen a top-sail hoisted'

you should get out more....

put an advert in the paper
wanted:
ploughboy (pleasingly merrie ....after about six gin and tonics). if you haul on my topsail, I'll haul on yours.....who knows, we might get it up!

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:45 AM

WLD

Slight correction. Aren't Ploughboys supposed to be Merry and Gay?
Would you want to spend time with a drunk 18 stone bloke with a moustache, tight leather trousers, accompanied by 2 stonking great Shire horses??

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:32 AM

There's a "farewell dearest Nancy" joke in there somewhere.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:52 AM

"...traditional English pub...a glass of mead in hand, a clog dancer by my side, and a plate of stottie and chips on the table..."

This sounds like no part of England to me. I've been in a hell of a lot of English pubs and the only pub I've ever seen Mead in is a Welsh one. The chips are the only thing that are common in my area & I'd never heard of a Stottie until your post.

Mead apparently is first mentioned in India & is found in cultures all over the world
Clog dancing is thought to have originated in Lancashire in the Industrial Revolution (not a very long tradition)
Stotties are from the North-East of England - an area whose language and culture is heavily influenced by Scotland & Scandinavia.
Chips are a French invention using a foodstuff originating in South America.

As an Englishman from Devon, if I found myself in a pub with... "...a glass of mead in hand, a clog dancer by my side, and a plate of stottie and chips on the table..." I'd feel a long way from home.


IMHO The English language & "English people" are distinctive because of their mongrel nature. Like the Borg in Star Trek we're great at assimilating and grabbing the best from the cultures that we encounter and absorbing new blood. For example, where would "English" life be without pyjamas, bitter, roast beef, cultivated strawberries, or village churches?

Back on the original subject, the origins of Morris dancing are hardly local themselves.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:28 AM

When you're 18 stone, all trousers are are tight - leather or otherwise....

and no one without the use of hallucenogenics has experienced being in a pub "...a glass of mead in hand, a clog dancer by my side, and a plate of stottie and chips on the table..."

just imagine if that were the norm, if you went out for a drink and that served you that crap. I think I'd emigrate.

I'd rather be roaming in the gloaming with a haggis in me sporran, a bonnie lassie, a braw bricht moonlit nicht, Kenneth McKellar's Midnight Cabaret in the Burns Unit on the jukebox, a tin of shortbread for company, a lass of Ir'n Brew, and Billy Connolly Rides a motorbike up his own arse on the TV, followed by Dr Finlay and a documentary I was the speech coach for Taggart on the TV.....

don't you get it?

the rest of the world has moved on from crude racial stereotypes. every second black English person you meet, says, well actually I was never all that keen on Bob Marley and I never follow cricket.

the whole point of the folkrevival is that English folk music is incredibly rich, musically complex, and very diverse - and we've all got a stake somewhere in there, cos its ours.

WAV, your views on folk music are like the worsst excesses of the 1970's. Music of Cromwellian simplicity and some sort of medieval banquet going on with serving wenches, mead and the like. If you had lived through those times - you wouldn't want them back.

I was always a chicken in the basket and black forest gateau man myself.