Dogs at Festival

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 05:08 AM

Dave, throughout this entire thread you have continued to show the most appalling ignorance of dogs, to the point where I honestly don't think you are qualified to contribute. You have twisted and distorted everything I have said and as far as I can see, everything that everybody else has said. For your information, dogs recover from operations far more quickly than humans. They are up and about far more quickly than humans, but the wounds still take time to heal. Taking a dog to a festival has nothing to do with the recuperative process.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Blowzabella
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 05:03 AM

Most dog owners don't carry plastic 'poop scoops' - they carry small plastic bags (often bio-degradeable) designed for the purpose

And, on the subject of man's relationship with dogs - one theory is that it is in no small way because of our long-standing association with canines that Man was able to develop speech and, thereby presumably, song. Apparently, in our cranial cavity, there is only space for us to have either the structures to enable us to make complex sounds OR the structures to enable us to have brilliant sense of smell. In evolutionary terms, because we had a close relationship with dogs, who came with a brilliant sense of smell, we utilised that and this in some way influenced our own evolution and meant that we were able to have a much more complex range of sounds available to us. So .... no dogs ... no folk festivals.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:56 AM

I wonder if the "take-your-dog-to-a-festival" fans - are in agreement that dogs should not be allowed into venues. And if so why?

What makes the dog so different one side of the tent from the other?

And thanks for answering the question about the cone. It makes a perfect sense now. The dog has had an operation so as part of the recuperation process it gets taken to a folk festival.

That makes sense.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:35 AM

Sorry. Early in the morning. Still only on my 2nd cup of coffee. Cones are also fitted where the dog has been operated on on other parts of the body, to stop it biting the wound open.

Incidentally, before anyone questions the ethical use of cones, I've had to put a cone on two of my dogs. It didn't bother either of them in the slightest.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 04:20 AM

Tosser avoidance. Sometimes dogs need to be operated on. Sometimes the operation has to be carried out in the region of the neck or the head. After such an operation, the dog usually needs to be fitted with a cone to stop it from scratching and thus opening the wound.

Like I said. Tosser avoidance.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 02:39 AM

"No, but I've often considered courses in tosser avoidance."

Motes and cinders, mate...

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 10:23 PM

To link to the the Humphrey Littleton thread...

Question How many legs have dogs?
Answer   No legs have dogs....

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Bonzo
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 10:03 PM

Chloroform's good.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:53 PM

No, but I've often considered courses in tosser avoidance. Lamentably, my decision to avoid such courses has clearly not paid off. :-(

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 07:29 PM

Steve: have you thought about anger management?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 07:13 PM

The cones are crude acoustic loudspeakers devised by the dogs' awful owners to make their barks sound even louder. They are the dog-owners' equivalent of those loud rasping exhausts that 18-year-olds have fitted on their Peugeot 106s to go with their multispeaker bass-only sound systems which only work with the windows wound down. Big dog, big cone, big bass, small willy sort of thing.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 06:07 PM

The cone is to stop the dog scratching its head/ears.


Scooby

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:59 PM

Just got back from Bromyard.

I only saw a few dogs and one dog fight. The fight was soon under control. Shame it happened at all.

I saw a number of dogs under the control of quite young people. Certainly if any specific rules were made about dogs a minimum age ought to be mentioned.

I admit that I never saw any dog crapping anywhere - though with the mud it would be hard to have been able to tell the difference. BUT - none of the dog owners seemed to have any kind of poop scoop with them.

And perhaps someone could tell me why a dog has a large plastic cone around its neck.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 03:39 PM

Well let's ban seagulls then, Dick, old chap! Only I get this uncomfortable feeling that they were here long before our badly-run towns, cities and refuse dumps were even a twinkle in the eye of Fred Flintstone. And the should-be benign relationship between humans and pigs/cows/sheep has been severely compromised by some dodgy farming practices of course.   Not the poor beasts' fault, and I ain't aiming to become veggie anytime soon. No wind-up Banji old chap, but probably time for a wind-down. I have chunes to learn.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Banjiman
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM

I'm sure SS must be on the wind up here...... no one could really get so up tight about something so un-important.

At the end of the day festival organisers will make up their own minds about allowing dogs or not.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:04 PM

Pigs are also omnivores.
[Cow, sheep, bird and all other widlife poo is an essential part of the recycling of organic matter.]quote SteveShaw
well,I dont think anyone feels like that when a seagull shits on your head.
unfortunately not all cows and sheep are allowed to be herbivores,that was part of the cause of c.j d.[mad cow disease]the feeding of Offal to cows and sheep.,which makes their shit no worse than Dogs,in fact some Dogs are fed vegetarian food.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:54 PM

Cow, sheep, bird and all other widlife poo is an essential part of the recycling of organic matter. Dogs are filthy non-native carnivores, here in their millions, which produce faeces laden with disease organisms all over the place in areas inhabited by people, unlike most wildlife. I really don't know why these things need to be explained. All dogs should always be on leads. Dogs on leads, especially small ones, are sitting ducks for loose dogs who come bounding over out of control.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:43 AM

wheedling dogshit out of the tread of my shoe with a matchstick

Surely an argument for banning shoes with unneccessarily complicated treads? If you can't prize the shit out with your dinner knife, something's wrong with your shoes...

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:32 AM

"but what about all those lovely E. coli and Salmonella organisms that are so easily spread from dogshit by flies and which are present in each and every dogturd you ever see?"

The countryside is still a pretty public place. Where I live I see a lot more cow poo and sheep poo around than dog poo, and there are certainly a lot of flies on it. Better start putting down all the sheep and cows. Not to mention the badger and foxes. After all, they carry loads of disease, and they're just roaming free, pooing wherever they like.

The dog defenders on this thread have only ever advocated responsible dog ownership - which means, to me, keeping your dog on a lead unless it is absolutely under control - if a dog does not come back immediately when called, it is NOT under control. And cleaning up after it. And making sure that someone wants to interact with your dog before you allow that to happen. As a dog owner whose dog is never off the lead, I also get pissed off with the "It's all right, he's only playing!" as a strange dog comes bounding over to mine. My dog was bred as a working terrier, and she might do yours a serious injury - and I tell the owners this. She's fantastic with people, but not so much with other animals - one of the reasons she's never off the lead. If an out-of-control dog insists on "playing" with her, it might get a nasty surprise.

Yesterday in my village, I watched some (supervised) dogs on the green outside the pub happily playing together and doing no one any harm and causing no nuisance. The only nuisance was from a little kid of about four who was running around screaming his head off (his dad was inside the pub drinking).

To be honest, bad parenting is a much bigger nuisance, and causes a lot more problems for society, than bad dog ownership (though as I've said earlier, the same sorts of people tend to be responsible for both). Your responses come across as ever-so-slightly OTT and obsessive, Steve. Maybe you need to get things in perspective a little.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:19 PM

I have posted a number of times to this thread and not advocated bans. The way to deal with dogs "to my satisfaction" is to get dog-owners to behave themselves. The vast majority cannot control their dogs and pick up the shit only when they think someone is looking. We need some rules maybe, and a shift in attitude like the one we've achieved with drink-driving. All dogs in public places should be on a lead. Loose dogs should be caught and put down. We need dog licences that cost good money (to cover the cost of dog wardens and cleaning up after dogs) and which you should be only be able to obtain once you've put your dog (and yourself) through a training course (which will certainly not be funded by the taxpayer). If your dog bites someone or causes an accident you should pay a heavy fine and the dog should be put down, no questions asked. If you're caught letting your dog shit in public and fail to clean it up your dog should be confiscated. All dog owners taking their dogs out in public should be required to have cleaning materials and disposal bags with them by law. This should be checkable by dog wardens or the police.   All dogs in cars should be restrained by gates that prevents them getting access to the driver.

Dogs can be trained to behave, and we should expect respect for those who dislike dogs. There is no excuse for your dog disturbing people by barking or jumping up or charging around anyone's feet, and there should be no dogshit in public places, ever.

As for the rarity of Toxocara, well OK (sorry about the earlier misspelling), but what about all those lovely E. coli and Salmonella organisms that are so easily spread from dogshit by flies and which are present in each and every dogturd you ever see?

Anything nannying and unreasonable in that lot, please let me know.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:36 PM

Just remind me how common toxicara is?

So how do we deal with dogs to your satisfaction without imposing bans and restrictions (and in the process strengthening the hand of those who would advocate for the risk averse, nannying society)? Surely better to put up with the slight risk of dog-related ill health and the greater risk of dog-related nuisance than the massive risk in throwing our hard-won freedoms away on(relative)trivia?

Professionally, meanwhile, I'll leave physical health to them as likes that sort of thing... yeulch!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:07 PM

This is not about making all risk go away. It is about getting that very strange breed of people, dog owners, to accept that their charges are not welcomed by everyone in spite of their "don't worry, he's only playing!" mentality. The risks presented by dogs are very preventable. I write as someone who has spent a happy time this very day wheedling dogshit out of the tread of my shoe with a matchstick. Fortunately, I spotted it before entering the house. If you think that my annoyance at this has anything to do with advocacy of a nannying, risk-averse society, you clearly ought to have the odd adventure out of mental health practice every now and again and swot up on communicable diseases a bit more. Quite an eye-opener, I think you'll find. Unless your eye is infected with Toxicara, of course.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:27 AM

I'll stop being frivolous long enough to say I quite like dogs, me. I don't particularly want them banned from anywhere - not for the sake of the dogs themselves or their owners (and I do tend to slightly prefer dogs to their owners as a rule) but because I get fed up with this risk averse, nannying society, where every last thing has to be assessed, legislated for and regulated to death. As a mental health practitioner, I can assure you that try as you might, you can't ever make all risk go away. Neither is it necessarily desirable to.

Meanwhile, can I just remind some of the dog lovers out there, particularly Fred, that no matter how much you love your dog, it's not a person? To compare restricting where dogs can go to Second World War nazi atrocities is, frankly, verging on the crass and offensive.

Mrs B, above, has it about right, though wiping the grass with loo roll may be just a little too responsible!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM

Quote: "I ALWAYS clean up after him, including wiping the grass with tissues if needed."

Excellent! Allow me to shake your hand!


....No, no, the other one...

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mrs Banjiman
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:06 AM

Whew! It's just taken me half an hour to read this thread...hats off to Liz Cornish for some sensible comments.

I am a dog owner. I am a responsible dog owner too...I ALWAYS clean up after him, including wiping the grass with tissues if needed. I would always keep him on the lead in areas where there are lots of people or other animals, etc.

Generally I have not taken him to festivals because quite honestly with two young children and musical instruments to carry, my hubbie and I just don't have enough hands! I have taken him for a day event and he was well-behaved, met some other dogs and loved meeting new people and being fussed by children. I know that not everyone likes dogs and I am sensitive to this and will always try to gauge a person's reaction before I let him go anywhere near - dog lovers are easy to spot, as are people who are nervous of them.

It is all about common sense and responsibility!

I do not think there should be a blanket ban at Festivals, but some festivals are more suitable than others. Greenfield events lend themselves to dogs more so than those in lots of small pubs in towns, for example, as it is often possible to hear the music but still be outside the marquees. Perhaps dog-friendly events should charge a small ticket fee for dogs. This would encourage people to stop and think about taking their dog in the first place. The money could go towards an animal charity or a children's charity, say? (Or to fund some poop bins and bags so that owners have NO excuses!)

Re - people treading in dog muck or wee....let's get some perspective here! I find it just as disgusting that some festivals expect us to pay to camp in fields that have obviously had livestock in them until only days before and finding a tent pitch that doesn't have a pile of drying cow/sheep mess on it is a challenge!

Okay - I'm off my soap box now.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 07:36 PM

I only want to see pigs at the theatre if they're wearing lipstick.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 07:22 PM

How about cows at the opera?
Pigs at the theatre?
Chickens at the cinema?

Yo, animal lovers! Bring it on...

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: folk1e
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 06:50 PM

1 If dogs are (potentially) to be banned the assumption is that people are taking their dogs, and paying for tickets!

2 Don't go abroad!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: oggie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 05:19 PM

"Well lets see ..... remove all the dog owners from festivals and you increase your ticket price. I class low(sic)ticket prices as an advantage, also the friendliness of the responsible dog owning fraternity!"

I do not believe that you can support that statement. Very few of us who have dogs take them to festivals, for a wide variety of reasons. Can any Festival organiser here tell us that they take into account the effect of dog owners on their festival?

Out of interest, what do any of the "can't be parted from my dog brigade" do if they want to go on a foreign holiday?

Steve

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Bonzo
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 02:36 PM

"So, I guess we have to ban the humans too, 'just in case'......"

And just be left with some morris dancers in a field?

Regards,

Bonzo

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: 1LizzieCornish
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 05:59 AM

That must have been highly unpleasant for the lady concerned, however, it would have been equally unpleasant had she driven her wheelchair through a huge pile of vomit, and yup, I've seen more than a few of those at festivals..and outside festivals too.

So, I guess we have to ban the humans too, 'just in case'......




(Sorry for name change...I think my 'cookies' have lost their chocolate chips) :0)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:11 AM

latest message on the SFF blog:

Thank goodness most owners cleared up after their dogs, but some certainly didn't - I saw one wheelchair in a disgusting state and the poor user having her hands washed after going straight through a huge pile. On balance I think you should ban dogs!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,not a dog owner
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 07:29 AM

"I can envisage all sorts of practical difficulties with your suggestion - .... Unless you insist on imposing your love of taking a dog to a folk festival on other people. "

Agreed it's for Sandra & her committee to make the call on what is suitable at Shrewsbury. Any suggestion has practical difficulties, yours, mine, anybody else's.

However, I'm trying to make a separation here between taking action to prevent/minimise risk of actual injury, and taking action to prevent irritation - I see them as very different. Lots of things that other people do at festivals annoy me but I'm not suggesting banning them, cause I think within reason we should all just be tolerant of what other people like to do, whether that is bringing our dogs, children, cars, or singing painfully out of tune.

You seem in some of your posts to be saying that action should be taken to prevent anybody being injured (fair enough) and mixing that up with things that should be done so that those who don't want to even see/hear a dog at a festival can do so if they wish. That's the bit I have issue with - because I might decide I don't want to see or hear an annoyingly loud drunk person at a festival but I see that essentially as my problem, to be dealt with on a case by case basis by common sense guidelines and a bit of thoughtfulness and tolerance all round, not something that should be legislated against by the festival.

I disagree that my 'some restricted areas' suggestion and your 'totally segragated area' suggestion amount to the same thing. I'd only restrict them from any area where, if they are on a short-ish lead, people cannot keep out of their physical reach if they so choose, plus specific kids areas. So, probably would ban from crowded bars and venues, probably wouldn't ban from open green bits of the site (including camp site) or large non-crowded venues. That is way less restriction than you seem to feel is necessary.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Bonzo
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 07:15 PM

That was a cat?? It wasn't my fault, I'd had beer and drugs. Now, banning cats - that's a sensible idea. You never see a cat with rubber teeth, I can tell you.

Regards,

Bonzo

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Chaz
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:49 PM

I vaguely remember a dog savaging a cat at a festival in Wheaton Aston, Staffordshire and it was still on the lead at the time. So dogs can still act naturally even if attached to the owner.

CB

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:13 PM

Hi Lizzie

I had to rescue an oiled cormorant from the beach near Bude a couple of years ago. Carrying it a mile up to the vets in town was the most dangerous thing I've ever done. I came to the conclusion that cormorants should be banned from damp beach towels in flimsy cardboard boxes.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Bonzo
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:55 PM

Sorry, that was me - lack of sleep.

Bonzo

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:54 PM

Incidentally, there were actually no dogs in the Bonzo Dog Band, it was just the name of the band.

Regards,

Bonzo

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Bonzo
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:42 PM

What if humans had rubber legs? How would you like that? What am I saying?
I'm off to listen to some decent music, I expect you to be able to guess what.

Regards

Bonzo

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: folk1e
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:28 PM

Cross posted there

Just pointing out one or two advantages to somebody who could not see them!
Ad Nausium et all!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: folk1e
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:23 PM

If dogs had rubber teeth

Bit of a stretchable point.

You wern't part of the Doodah band were you?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM

Well lets see ..... remove all the dog owners from festivals and you increase your ticket price. I class low(sic)ticket prices as an advantage, also the friendliness of the responsible dog owning fraternity!

All this has already been dealt with ad nauseam.......

Go back and read the thread. Your points are not new.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Bonzo
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:04 PM

Cars are banned in pedestrian areas. I have to use a lamp-post. I don't much like the idea of rubber teeth either.

Bonzo

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: folk1e
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 03:58 PM

"Lots of disadvantages here, and NO advantages, for festival-goers who do not have a dog (and for those who are considerate enough to leave their dog at home)." ..............(Sharon A)

Well lets see ..... remove all the dog owners from festivals and you increase your ticket price. I class low(sic)ticket prices as an advantage, also the friendliness of the responsible dog owning fraternity!

Folkiedave .......... I don't expect you to get this but ....
It is all about the level of danger and the risk of that danger actually ocuring! If dog bites were always fatal the slight risk that somebody would get bitten would be outweighed by the danger of being bitten! If dogs had rubber teeth and never caused harm (by biting) the risk of a dogbite would not be considered serious.
The consequence of being run over by a car is severe but the chances are low of it occurring ...... that is why you do not ban cars!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Bonzo
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 03:18 PM

No, but I've got a dark brown overcoat.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 03:15 PM

Almost my last woof.

Bonzo, you're not *the* Bonzo, are you? Doo-Dah...Doo-Dah

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Bonzo
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM

Personally I'd prefer it if they made temporary arrangements for me, rather than forcing me to put up with that all hideous racket. I also happen to find drunks intensely irritating too, they tend to be rather clumsy and over-familiar. Some of them admittedly wear silly garish clothes and seem to be equipped with warning-bells, so they aren't so much of a problem - although they particularly are best avoided, as the temptation to bite borders on irresistible. The kids don't really enjoy it either, much for the same reasons. No, I'd rather be at home in front of the fire. Woodstock wasn't all it was cracked up to be y'know..

Regards,

Bonzo

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 02:57 PM

"To Lizzie

You don't know whether humans are going to harm a child Lizzie. But we do know place restrictions on people who work with them. And I don't know about you but I warned my kids about contact with adults. (I also warned them about contact with dogs - but it didn't do any good - see above).

You don't know a dog will not harm a child - so all I want to do is place restrictions on them. Similar to the ones that stop (for example) people taking dogs into hospitals."


The restrictions don't work, Dave, in so many cases. And besides, not all dodgy people are known about. My point is that you cannot make life 100% safe. I am fair fed up of living in a 'restricted' world, where one restriction leads to another, then another, then another.

As a species, we have seemingly lost the plot, if you ask me.

Good Heavens, my cat, Wilby scratched me, a few years back, he shoved his claws deep into my nose, then pulled...all the way down, right before the first Sidmouth Folk Week too. It was agony and I still have the scar. But did I start up a campaign to get ALL cats banned from households 'just in case' ? Nope. I gave the little b*gger a severe talking to, spent an age each morning trying to hide the mess he'd made of my nose, and have never let him near my face again. End of story. It's life, it happens.

And then...there was the cormorant I tried to rescue one day, from the shallow waves of Bigbury on Sea..he had oil on him...and I was determined to help...Little devil chewed another part of my nose...but hell, he only did it because he was terrified..I left the waves, with blood trickling down..and rang the RSPCA, which is of course what I should have done in the first place..but nope..I didn't demand that all sea birds should be banned from places I like to visit, just realised I'd been a total twit..and got on with my life.

ALL festivals should state that dogs are allowed in *only* if they are on a lead, and a suitable one, at that, not these 3 mile ones that trip people up and give you no control over the dog. They should also state that any dog causing problems, on campsites or in the festival itself, will have to leave, immediately, along with its owner. This can be reinforced by the stewards on the gates. HOWEVER, they should ALSO state that dogs are allowed at the festival, and therefore would humans please take the trouble to treat them with respect and kindness.

And as far as I'm aware, dogs have never been allowed into hospitals, other than guide dogs, hearing dogs, and dogs that are there to give people nothing but love..to heal them, bring them happiness and make them feel better...

Therapy Dogs - or whatever you want to call them...

Oh..and by the way, you're far more at risk in hospital of becoming infected with MRSA, than you are from picking anything up from a dog, be he in the hospital, or outside it.

And that really is my final woof in this thread.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 01:53 PM

I have no idea whether it is suitable for Shrewsbury. Sandra may have an idea.

I can envisage all sorts of practical difficulties with your suggestion - which is litle different to mine of having a segragated area.

You would clearly stop them going into crowded bars I would suggest, and you would bar them from venues and the children's area. I don't want to camp next to dogs and I know a lot of people who don't, so you would need a separate camping area. You would need to bar them from areas where people like me go who have no desire to meet strangers' dogs. Unless you insist on imposing your love of taking a dog to a folk festival on other people.

So having a segregated area seems to me to be a most practical solution. In a segregated area dogs could roam free. I thought that would suit dog-owners. Do they really want their dogs on a lead all day long? And if you want to go to talk to other people's dogs then you would know where to go. There would be loads of them there together and you would be able to choose from a selection instead of just relying on a chance meeting.

But in the same way that you want to go around meeting other people's dogs I want them to stay away from me. I go to festivals for folk music - not dogs.

Why not start up a dog lover's folk festival?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,not a dog owner
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 12:02 PM

Lots of festivals, festival campsites, and especially those where camp site and the rest of the festival kind of merge together, have children and vehicles in close proximity. I personally know of one acquaintance injured by a vehicle at a festival. I don't know anybody personally (outside of this thread I mean) who has been hurt by a dog at a festival. That's just anecdotal evidence though, too small a sample to say anything much useful from.

I don't *want* anybody to be hurt by a dog any more than I want them to be run over. My suggested solution, which you don't seem to think sufficient, is to have a 'dogs on leads at all times' rule (possibly with restrictions on length of lead), and to have areas where dogs aren't allowed to go. I'd also adopt Tim's emminently sensible suggestions about guidelines for dog owners and stewards etc, which could easily lead to some of the irresponsible owners that you are worried about being removed before anything untoward happened. I concede that therefore *some* risk still exists, but would argue that it is reduced - and that even before putting those things in place the initial risk is pretty low already.

I'd rather Shrewsbury and other festivals didn't choose to go down the 'we must ban them all' route. Agreed it would be an easy way to stop anybody being hurt by a dog, in that setting. But it would also be a large restriction on the enjoyment of people like me who enjoy other people's dogs being at festivals, and the dog owners themselves. For me, the price paid by that option is disproportionate to the size of the risk.

Your 'have a totally separate area where dogs are allowed' solution might work fine on some festival sites, less fine on others, depending on the site. If specifically talking about Shrewsbury I can't quite imagine how it would work there, but I wouldn't rule it out.