Dogs at Festival

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Bee
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM

Festivals here are usually in rural areas. Vast numbers of the people who attend are from other parts of the province and other provinces, are travelling in RVs, and they are usually including the festivals in their vacations. They travel with their dogs.

Dogs on leads, not staked out with owners away, and not in venues is the usual rule at these festivals, and I've never witnessed a problem yet. People routinely pick up after their dogs, as it would be hard not to with so many people watching - Nova Scotians are not shy about telling people to do the right thing on such issues.

One festival, which I will not name since I'm about to call the organizers anal, self-important, musically tone-deaf snobs, tried a no-dog policy for a year. The Rv-ers stayed away in droves, revenues dropped like a stone, and they reversed the policy thereafter.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:50 PM

Is that the same Steve Shaw who recently wrote on another (unrelated) thread:

"Some of you absolutists need to get off your high horses. You pontificate in generalities from the very narrow position of your own circumstances or prejudices."

Surely not.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM

Steve Shaw,

Thankyou for sharing that with us - was just eating a sandwich at the time!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: melodeonboy
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:27 PM

"Dogs are a curse and so are most of their owners, the vast majority of whom think that "controlling" their wretched animals consists of shouting at them from 200 yards away as loudly as possible."

Mmm... I think someone's a little bit out of touch!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM

And the last time I looked into it, yes, I discovered that they piss all over the place too. Lovely jubbly!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM

Anyone who fondly thinks that picking up dog-poo means there is no dog-poo left is seriously deluded. Dogs do not produce shite pre-packed in hygienic containers, nor can it be completely removed from grass.   A nasty smear will remain which is just as attractive to flies as the intact turd and even more of a threat to children who can't see where it used to be. Arguably, it's better to just leave the turd where it is so that at least we can see where the contamination lies. Dogs are a curse and so are most of their owners, the vast majority of whom think that "controlling" their wretched animals consists of shouting at them from 200 yards away as loudly as possible. The idea that masses of people at festivals, where hygiene is already an important issue, are just dandy mixing it with hordes of filthy dogs is, frankly, laughable. So there.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:24 AM

I thoroughly enjoyed meeting other people's dogs at Shrewsbury folk festival and got a great deal of pleasure from the simple fact that they were there. I do not have a dog of my own as I dont have a suitable life style or accommodation. All the dogs I met were very well behaved and all the owners I saw cleaned up and otherwise behaved responsibly. What a great shame that a few may spoil it for what seemed to me to be the majority and the no sayers get another chance to reduce our life experiences

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: TheSnail
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:12 AM

Ruth Archer

replace the word "dog" with "kids"...what's the difference?

Well, here's Peace's solution for an annoying dog. I don't think you could get away with that with a child.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: skipy
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:32 PM

Well, perhaps dog owners are the next target, here in Grove they are planning on banning dogs from the "playing fields" the festival camps on the "playing fields" I am 100%+ sure that the festival has never left any dog poo behind because our dog lovers are sensible people.
However did any dog owners fight for us smokers? I think not, so will I fight for the rights of the dog owners, I think not. & so they come for all of us!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:19 PM

I looked for the origin of that quote, Paws, and so far the originator is "Unknown". FYI

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:06 PM

"And do your children do the same when you tell them?

Mine did the human equivalent, particularly when at festivals. Or else.....
They were told that there were situations where it was important they did as they were told first, and asked questions afterwards.
They did, and as a result were given a lot more freedom than some.They knew there were limits.They've grown into responsible adults.
Yes, it is broadly the same as training dogs.

"Neither of mine have taken a blind bit of notice of me since they were sixteen!!"

Quite. Mine always have taken notice, and appear to be bringing up their own offspring by the same methods, tho' it's a bit early for results yet.

Who was it said "The more people I meet, the more I love my dog?"

Paws

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:20 PM

ioo

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:20 PM

where is lead fingers

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:35 PM

no, my dog,is the only one who obeys me.
my dog normally howls at my partners accordion,but not my English concertina,unless I play how much is that doggy in the window.
My dog believes rather like Karl Marx,that one must eat before one can think,so he doesnt cogitate on definitions of ballads,and such squit.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: nutty
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:21 PM

What's his response Dick when you ask what he thinks of the state of the Nation.
Which politician he vwould vote for?

What is his opinion of folk music today

Or similar stimulating conversations.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:18 PM

Two suggestions: charge admission for dogs, as already suggested by Captain Birdseye, and have proper kennels available so dogs can be left in a 'creche' and don't have to be out among strangers all the time.

Loud music is incredibly painful to dogs' ears, though, and crowds are freaky for dogs. I wouldn't bring my dog to a festival.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:16 PM

Cap'n

And do your children do the same when you tell them?

Neither of mine have taken a blind bit of notice of me since they were sixteen!!

:-)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM

Dave,I have a collie, I have many successful conversations with him.when I say sit,he sits,when I say, come this way,he does.
when I say,stay, he stays.
he also understands left and right.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: lady penelope
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM

In the UK we are in the fortunate position of (currently) not having a rabies problem. Which means even if someone is bitten by a dog they generally don't have to go through the rather painful experience of rabies injections. So for us, a dog bite (depending on actual tissue damage) is not necessarily the scary thing it can be in other countries.

That aside, I don't think a ban is necessary, but is does depend on the organisers willingness/ability to police these things.

My personal reasoning is that you get dogs in most public places, festivals meerly concentrate their numbers a bit. It's common sense to teach your children not to pat strange dogs without asking the owner and teaching them basic things like not grinning (as Liz said). But it's also common sense that you train your dog to a minimum standard. It gives the dog security in knowing who's in charge in any situation, for a start. Unfortunately there are those (as with children) who seem neither capable or bothered enough to do this.

I think those people should be addressed. If it is made clear by the organisers, at point of ticket purchase, that highly anitsocial or violent behaviour is not brooked and the offenders (and keepers by default) will be invited to leave the festival, then I don't see the problem. If organisers stick to the policy, maybe those who think of their dogs (or kids for that matter) as accessories rather than responsibilities will either leave the dogs at home or not come at all.

Leaving the rest of us (well cared for dogs and kids too) to enjoy ourselves.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:04 PM

Sorry, but parents can be as singularly self-indulgent with their children

I certainly hope so - I have never met a parent that wasn't.

"Ahhh, isn't our little Jocasta sweet jumping about on that seat; it must be so wonderful for you all sitting behind her to see the lovely natural way she moves with the music"

I love the way kids move in time with music.

Dogs and children out of the venue as soon as they start being annoying; otherwise let's all have a tolerant, free & welcoming festival.

Dogs not allowed into a venue under any circumstances. Why on earth would you want to bring a dog into a venue for goodness sake? To listen to the music? Or because you can't leave it in accommodation? If you can't care for it in accommodation then don't bring it.

Children talked to lovingly, soothingly and caringly if they are a nuisance.

I cannot remember an occasion when I had a problem with a child at a folk festival. But if I did have one I would probably address the child.

Let me know when you have had a succesful conversation with a dog.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:26 AM

"Should dogs be encouraged to attend church with their owners?"   

I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd;
    I stand and look at them long and long.

    They do not sweat and whine about their condition;
    They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins;
    They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God;
    Not one is dissatisfied—not one is demented with the mania of owning things;
    Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago;
    Not one is respectable or industrious over the whole earth.

Walt Whitman   
[Leaves of Grass 32, ll.682-689]

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:16 AM

Round and round we go.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Meggly
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:10 AM

Sorry, but parents can be as singularly self-indulgent with their children as can dog owners with their pooches.

"Ahhh, isn't our little Jocasta sweet jumping about on that seat; it must be so wonderful for you all sitting behind her to see the lovely natural way she moves with the music".

Dogs and children out of the venue as soon as they start being annoying; otherwise let's all have a tolerant, free & welcoming festival.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Farmer Giles
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:57 AM

Should dogs be encouraged to attend church with their owners?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Maryrrf
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:52 AM

Around here there seem to be two types of festivals - those where dogs are welcomed and made part of the festival and those where they are banned. At the 'dog' festivals people pay admission for the dogs and it goes to a local charity. They have to be on a lead, and must show current rabies certificate in order to be admitted. Part of the fun of going to the festival is seeing the various dogs strutting around with their owners, most of them obviously enjoying themselves. There's even a "blessing of the animals" at the end of the festival. The venues are all outdoors (in open tents) and I've never heard of any problems. Of course, everybody who goes knows there will be dogs, and lots of them. I can see the point about potential problems - but mostly I think it boils down to owners taking responsibility, NOT bringing an animal whose temperment is unsuited to a public event, and keeping control of the dog at all times. Also cleaning up messes of course.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:40 AM

The vast majority of dogs are well-behaved, social creatures who probably enjoy being outdoors and getting all the attention they receive at festivals. It's a shame that a minority of irresponsible owners ruin it for the majority.

I have sympathy with a crying child - up to a point. If the parents don't deal with the situation, and expect everyone else's indulgence while they don't remove their child from the concert, my sympathy evaporates pretty quickly. And then there were the kids running around blowing loud whistles at an outdoor Bellowhead gig a few years ago...when I asked the parents to get them to stop, the response was, "Well, they're children. What do you expect?" Funnily enough, I expect to be able to listen to the music at a music festival.

Dogs, children and grown-ups happily share lots of other public spaces. It seems that a bit more consideration on the part of owners and parents could mean everyone can happily share festivals as well.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:11 AM

The difference between dogs and children Ruth?

I suspect you cannot be serious - but I have been bitten twice by dogs and my daughter had to have rabies injections after a dog bite at a festival, (an experience that neither she nor I have ever forgotten). She was a four year-old playing. That was her reward.

I haven't been bitten by a child nor as far as I am aware has anyone anywhere had to have anti-rabies injections after playing near children.

I have been to numerous festivals where children have complained, cried, whinged and moaned. Their parents have taken them out, soothed them etc. They rarely disturb people for long (the reason being they are also disturbing their parents). Dog owners often seem immune to their dogs' behaviour.

Children starting at an early age can get a lot out of a festival - from the often superb kids events to learning to listen at concerts and perhaps even a love of folk music.

Dogs get......?

Most people would have sympathy with a crying child, in my experience they have a lot less sympathy with a barking dog.

I know adults can be badly behaved at festivals especially late at night, at least I can go out and reason with them. (Or sometimes them with me).

It is no good saying allow them on and ban the owners if they misbehave. By then the damage has been done. And I can imagine the scene "He wont do it again honestly and we have paid £xxx for tickets, surely we can stay plead plead plead....."

To me it is simple - if you happen to be a dog owner and there is a festival you want to go to - then you have a choice of leaving the dog with someone else or in kennels, or if you are so attached you can't do that, then stay at home with them. The dog was your choice not the other way around.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mick Woods
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:07 AM

"my daughter is 14. And she's never been bitten by a dog"

My grandson is 2 and has never been molested by a paedophile!

That makes paedos OK - accoring to RA's logic!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:05 AM

i think we should ban banning things.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Meggly
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:18 AM

When I first saw this thread I was mildly surprised at the suggestion which seemed to me to be an over-reaction to one incident at one festival out of 10-odd previously-without-incident festivals at Shrewsbury/Brigenorth. But I thought, well, maybe the question needs to be asked and then put to bed.

But I'm becoming increasingly alarmed at the number of people coming down on the side of banning dogs at the festival.

I agree, dogs can be dangerous; owners have a responsibility to watch their dogs, clean up after them and guard against well-wishers who may be acting in a way that will antagonise the dog and cause an incident. Some people don't do this; there should be a mechanism for 'punishing' these people. But to ban dogs completely? Dogs and man have existed side by side for much of our development as modern man; they are part of our psychology, whether you own one or not. And if there is no other reason for why dogs should be allowed at festivals then surely it is this.

My second problem is that everything seems to be getting banned. My friend's daughter's school has banned the javelin from its sports days in case of injury. What happened to personal responsibility and taking a few risks? Banning dogs/javelins means that kids have one less opportunity to learn that dog/javelins might look benign, but need to be handled carefully. Are we to wrap our kids up in so much cotton wool that they have no idea how to survive in the world at large?

Sod it why take them to a real folk festival with mud and dogs and drunk people getting in your way whilst trying to watch the acts; where they could get hurt. I've got an idea! Virtual Shrewsbury Folk Festival! Right, video a bunch of folkie artistes and stream them over the web for the bank-holiday weekend. We could all wrap our selves up in our duvets and we wouldn't have to get wet or interact with anyone nasty at all.

I would not stop going to Shrewsbury if they banned dogs, but it would seriously affect my enjoyment of the festival; my favourite pastime other than all the other pastimes is dog spotting.

Meg (not a dog owner by the way).

P.S. Are you going to ban the Ferrets too? (They're cute, but I would certainly remind any child of mine not to poke their fingers anywhere near the mouth end; and I would certainly be saying "I told you so" if they did get bitten.) And, tent pegs? Vicious those. I fell over a number of guy ropes that weekend; admittedly they were all on my own tent. Should I ban my tent? Hmmm…

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,dog owner
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:48 AM

if anyone is seriously interested, this is the best thing around for teaching children how to be safe around dogs.

http://www2.the-kennel-club.org.uk/sashi_code/

obviously this does not excuse dog owners from behaving vigilantly and responsibly.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:24 AM

Fair enough Ruth I guess it is a case of what are the chances of a bite, what are the consequences and what does the dog actually get from being at a festival.

Sorry I am doing what I complained about - going round and round in circles.

Finally I want to confess before I get shopped: I dog appeared at a Singaround that I "orgainise". It ran in and out of our Snug, jumped on people and ran back to it's owner in the bar. When Sean struck up with the 3 stringed fiddle and Bob with the Smallpipes the dog reappeared, clearly attracted by the high pitch. Only when it peed just missing Alan did I go to find the owner.

I thought we all found this very funny, which in a way it was but it was more than a bit pit bullish with a jeweled collar and on reflection I should have stopped it straight away.

I think that is at the heart of the problem, dogs can be fascinating, lovable and harmless and dangerous and I, and most other people, cannot tell which is which.

I think they have to go into the festival 101.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:15 AM

"Oh, what about the man with a parrot in a portable cage at Sidmouth"

I thought I'd dreamed that...

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:14 AM

Our lurcher Gwyn has been to several festivals (including several Towerseys and Sidmouths).

Why do we bring her? Simply because she is far happier with us on a festival site than she is in kennels. No dog wears its heart on its sleeve more than a lurcher, and she shows every sign of thoroughly enjoying herself. We wouldn't bring her if she didn't. She is, though, an experienced border morris dog, and so is very comfortable in new situations and in travelling around with music and general merriment going on around her.

It ain't rocket science, and I'm not saying we're perfect or holier-than-thou: but we do take the responsibility (to other people and to her) seriously. Nobody else should ever have their enjoyment of the event impinged upon by the fact that we have Gwyn with us.
We keep her on the lead whenever around the site and wouldn't dream of letting her run around on-site off the lead, keep her well-exercised away from the site, avoid crowded and food areas, keep a weather eye out for children, nervous-looking adults, and other dogs, keep her off the seats, and make sure we clear up after her.

Nobody has ever complained to us about her or about her presence, and we would take the complaint seriously if anyone did. The biggest problem we have ever had was in getting across the Towersey site quickly when late for a concert, as far too many people (including lots of stewards!) wanted to stop us to say hello to her ...

It's about respecting other people, taking account of the fact that not everyone is comfortable around dogs, and just being sensible.
In fact it's what we do every day as (hopefully) responsible dog owners.

I would suspect that the dogs, and dog-owners, which cause problems at festivals are the dogs and dog-owners which cause problems the rest of the year round!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:13 AM

Now you mention it, I saw a woman with a ferret at Shrewsbury. Children do find them fascinating, because they are. My farther kept ferrets and I know they bite. A couple next to us on a campsite in Austria had a cat on a lead all day. I guess the cat would have escaped if they had not. Do these people need help?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:13 AM

The only thing i would say, Les, is that there's a big difference between how a dog behaves in its own territory (which it will try to defend - even against friendly leafleters!) and how they behave in neutral territory.

If a parent is really concerned, they should teach their child not to approach ANY strange dog. And responsible dog owners should have their dogs on leads in public places, and muzzled if there is any risk of biting (either other dogs or people).

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:07 AM

Maybe Ruth, but my leafleting experience is that I cannot tell a sensible dog from the others and I don't think it is actually possible to teach such a skill to children or adults with enough reliability.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:06 AM

Good points here.

I think Shrewsbury is one of the most "dog friendly" festival sites there is.   Plenty of room for walking, off site walking included.

I took our old dog this year...I have a large campervan, and she's quite happy in it. She particularly liked being camped near the midden left over from several agricultural shows:-))

I was surprised on getting round to reading the program, to see that "well behaved" dogs were welcome in venues. I wouldn't dream of taking either of ours in, but I suppose one person's well behaved is anothers pain in the bum. Again it's down to owners. I'd be unhappy to see a ban.

BTW great job again Alan, Sandra et al

Baz

Oh, what about the man with a parrot in a portable cage at Sidmouth,or the man with a ferret on a lead at Dartmoor?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:06 AM

"What is the difference between a young human and a dog!"

Nicely taken out of context, Mick Woods! I think it's pretty clear that I meant that there are arguments against having either at festivals, but using a bit of common sense, both can be easily accommodated.

FWIW, my daughter is 14. And she's never been bitten by a dog.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:04 AM

Let me get my retaliation in first:

People do most of the things I have listed above, but festivals are organised by people for people. Some of us are old and some young but in varying degrees we all enjoy, and often love, the music we hear and the company of fellow festival goers.

That's it really

L in C

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:03 AM

"7. Blaming children for not knowing how to approach dogs is stupid"

You're right - but you can blame their parents.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mick Woods
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:57 AM

"Uncle Dave, replace the word "dog" with "kids"...what's the difference?"

?

What is the difference between a young human and a dog!

If you don't know that, I hope you don't actually have or intend on having any children or wven be allowed near them!!!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:40 AM

Zen,
I wasn't responding to you in isolation. I guess it looks that way because one thread follows another, when in fact lots and lots of people contribute to the discussion.

A problem with all long threads is that after a while people tend not to read the thread from the start and points start to be endlessly repeated.

I have read all this from the start and the case seems for banning dogs seems very strong:

1. Dogs sometimes, though rarely, bite people
2. Dogs excrete daily and it is not always cleaned up effectively
3. Dogs bark a bit and spoil some performances, though not much
4. Although it's hard to tell, dogs don't get much from festivals
5. According to many dog owners and lovers above, dogs are at least ill at ease in the festival environment
6. I think it is unreasonable to expect festival organisers to "police" dogs.
7. Blaming children for not knowing how to approach dogs is stupid

I recognise the pleasure dog owners get. I have delivered political leaflets 4 or 5 times a year for nearly 40 years. I never go into gardens were I suspect their may be a dog. Although most dogs are harmless I cannot tell which is which and neither can children.

The evidence presented above leads me to think all festivals should ban dogs.

On a not unrelated theme I am not convinced that the level of "First Aid" at most festivals is adequate. Sooner or later somebody will have serious heart trouble, a major wound, broken bones or breathing difficulty, brought on or rendered more difficult because of the nature of the venue.

Was Woodstock remembered as the festival at which more people were born than died?

L in C

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:59 AM

I will try and be serious.
Ruth and GreG B,heave it about right.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:42 AM

"No-one has yet given me a good reason why a dog should be at a festival.

When as some people say, owners should be made responsible for their dogs at festivals, what are you going to do if they aren't?"


Uncle Dave, replace the word "dog" with "kids"...what's the difference? There's no reason why either "should" be at a festival, and for many people, their dogs are part of their family.

There may have been a few growls and barks during concerts this year at Towersey, but there was also a bawling baby in the Roy Bailey concert I attended, whose parents didn't have the courtesy to take it out of the marquee. I've sat next to fractious toddlers in late evening concerts in the past, who wriggled and tantrumed and chattered because they were bored, but their parents didn't want to miss the concert and so were happy to let their children ruin the gig for those around them.

At the end of the day, it's all about courtesy, and having basic respect for the people around you. If you look after your pets and your children, making sure that they have adequate food and drink, stuff to occupy them if they get bored, aren't too hot in the sun, remove them if they become disruptive and clean up after their messes, there really shouldn't be problems. It's when people bring their children or pets into an environment and switch off, preferring to focus on their own enjoyment and not worrying about how the pet/child is behaving, that you end up with trouble.

I have to admit, I found it quite distracting to have my dog with me at the festival last weekend, because I was worrying about her all the time, and would probably avoid bringing her in future. But each to their own, as long as people behave responsibly.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Zen
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:28 AM

L in C,

Why are you baring your teeth specifically at me as I have have simply reiterated an obvious point about owners made by many others?

Zen

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:07 AM

I can't comment for other festivals, but if anyone who went to Towersey bothered to read their ticket info - it states quite clearly that dogs are welcome as long as they are kept on a lead and cleared up after. As far as I'm aware, this is the first year we've reported any major trouble with dogs - and I do know that there were a couple of 'village' dogs roaming around without restraints or owners.

It is up to the venue managers to state whether dogs are allowed in, and that includes the food vendors.

As for the threatening behaviour of dogs - what does a dog do when it's not happy? It growls and snarls. When it growls, it shows its teeth. Walking up to a strange dog and smiling broadly at it, gives the dog the impression that you're a big strange animal growling at it and therefore a threat. I taught Limpit not to smile at strange dogs, because I just could not stop her going up to every size canine and patting it. I taught her to be gentle, to let it sniff her and not to show her teeth. It isn't just eye contact - that's more to do with a dominance/Alpha Dog thing - when either party drops its gaze, it's accepting the other is the dominant Alpha.

I like to see dogs at festivals, as I like to see children.... but as stated above several times, both dog and child are the responsibility of the owner/parent and both must be properly trained and kept under control.

(For those who remember, we had Limpit on a dog lead when she was a toddler - it saved a lot of chasing and we could haul her out of harm's way or stake her out in a safe place whilst we pitched tents or sat at the bar... I'd recommend one to any parent!)

LTS

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: melodeonboy
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:44 AM

I've never taken a dog to a festival myself, but I'm quite happy for them to be at festivals in the same way I'm quite happy to see them in pubs. It seems that our new squeaky-clean, no-risk, sanitised society is gradually excluding them from both.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Greg B
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:04 PM

Oh come ON!

To generalize that dogs ought to be banned because a kid got
his arm bit and is now scarred (as if that isn't a badge of
courage forever) is just ridiculous.

At the Mystic Sea Music Festival, a couple brought their brace
of two pit bulls (the USA's mythical "devil dog") to the
concerts each year.

Like most of these banned-in-Dade-county breed, these two were
complete love-magnets and their affections contributed not in
the least to my own experience of the event.

Then again, I know how to properly approach a dog; something
parents ought to teach their children.

They were properly restrained by harness-collars; they could
have bitten; I knew the risk I took when I approached them,
properly and passively.

On the other hand, I've been bitten more severely by my 16-pound
orange Maine coon-cat tabby cross. And by the 850-pound California
sea-lion whose part-time trainer I was. (THAT scar, alas, has faded
to the point of non-existence and certainly isn't braggable.)

Frankly, the emotional scars I've received at the hands of humans
are far deeper and long-lasting than the many I've received from
the animal kingdom.

Those latter scars, however, have on balance been healed in far
greater measure than the depth of the physical scars by the self-
same animals who've occasionally sunk their teeth into me.

Not to make light of it--- babies are on occasion killed by
canines. But the odd dog-bite pales in comparison to the richness
that the genus gives to us by their very presence. Owners need to
make sure that there is no more than the occasional unfortunate
inconvenience.

We need the beasties.

Keep them around.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Beer
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:06 PM

We didn't specify "No Dogs" at this year's festival. We posted on the web and posters "NO PETS".
Bobad has a dog that I would welcome at any festival, yet my brother has a little cute dog that children run up to and because of it's temperament would not hesitate to bite. That is the problem. The owners of the property that the festival was held have two humongous dogs which they had put away for the festival. Both are very gentle and love children. However they insisted at the board meeting that no dog be allow. Most board members also agreed. As someone mentioned there is a liability concern even though insurance can cover this. But who wants to have this as a problem. Then there are folks who are afraid of dogs period.
Beer (adrien)