Dogs at Festival

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 08:00 PM

Dogs are not allowed at any of the festivals in our neck of the woods (Northern Michigan). Most likely due to liability concerns.

Due to the failing economy our daughters have moved back into the house so now we have someone to stay at home and take care of our 3 dogs and 3 cats. Its an ill wind that blows no good...

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,lefthanded guitar
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:42 PM

I agree. It may be a minority of dog owners who let their animals run amok, but there is no place for dogs at a folk music festival.Besides the danger, there is the mess, and just general disarray . I also suspect that the dog who bit that poor child was not a first time biter.
Let dogs go to dog festivals but ban them from music arenas.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:29 PM

Some people, usually older people, treat their dogs like babies. They carry them around and wont go anywhere without them. Silly, and bordering on pathetic.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:30 PM

I think some of the attitudes displayed on this thread are rather dog in the manger.
why not charge the owners admission for their dogs.,providing they are English dogs.
we dont want foreign dogs,polluting the purity of our English folk festivals.
while I dont like to be dogmatic,the charging of owners for their dogs,will probably have the desired effect.
but on the other hand where would Les Barker have been wthout MrsAckroyd,up Barking creek without a paddle.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Alan Day
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:55 PM

I have five English Setters one of the friendliest dogs available, but I would not dream of taking any of them to a Festival.As already stated the conditions for dogs being left or taken into tents or kept in cars are not suitable.In general the music hurts their ears.Some breeds of dogs their car and tent becomes their territory so they guard it.A little child crawling into a tent with a dog in it is in danger.
I agree that some dog owners do not act in a responsible manner and properly clean up after their dogs.I think most of us have been to concerts where a dog has been left outside chained up and barking for it's owner.Many a good performance or live recording has been spoiled by a dog barking.Finally think about the poor dog ,where most of the audience is interested in the stage performance, many a poor dog has been tripped over. Finally a dog that is wonderful with humans can be a killer towards other dogs and many a dog fight is the result,with people being bitten trying to separate them.My thoughts on this subject is leave them at home or put them into a kennel.
Al

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: lady penelope
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM

It really is tricky.

I think in the end the festival organisers have to decide how much they are going to police dogs and their owners. If they do not wish to risk legal action against them for such incidents as bites etc then they will end up banning dogs. But I think if they do allow dogs, maybe they should make it very clear when people are buying tickets, that if they do not control their dogs then they are out of the festival, no arguments.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:57 PM

No-one has yet given me a good reason why a dog should be at a festival.

When as some people say, owners should be made responsible for their dogs at festivals, what are you going to do if they aren't?

Throw the owner and their dog off the site? Bit late if the irresponsible owner's dog has bitten someone.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: olddude
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:38 PM

The guest without the name was me. Sorry Joe, lost me cookies

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM

We had two dogs until a few weeks ago.
One very freindly and one a very good guard dog.
We took them to several music events and knowing them and their shortcomings managed them accordingly.
Freindly dog on lead allowed limited contact with people.
Guard dog on lead not allowed contact.
Its the owners who need to take responsibility and leave them home if they are not prepared to make the effort required to control them properly.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:01 PM

Zen,

"As many have said I think the problem is not so much with dogs but with irresponsible owners."

Unfortunately it is the dog that bites, not the owner, at least in most cases

L in C

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:57 PM

But he was on stage!!!!!!!.
scooby

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:50 PM

Are we forgetting the folk world's biggest star - the late lamented Mrs Ackroyd?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Zen
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:28 PM

Yes Jack... I sat next to Fleetwood at Glenfarg this year... he was no problem!

As many have said I think the problem is not so much with dogs but with irresponsible owners.

Zen

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ernest
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:56 PM

I am definitely against banning "Old Blue" and "Master McGrath" from festivals...they are FOLK!!!!!!!!!!!!

;0)
Ernest (whose dogs wouldn`t have liked to go to festivals)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: bfdk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:47 PM

"I think there are good, responsible dog owners just like there are good, responsible parents. Then there are people who are not really in control of their dog/child, and allow them to become a public nuisance. And usually they don't really care."

Spot on, Joanie.

For my part I wouldn't dream of bringing my dachshund along to a festival, for *his* sake, not for the sake of others. This despite my dog being a seasoned traveller who's roamed with me through Denmark and other countries for shows and working trials in his younger days, stayed in hotels without being a nuisance and spent hours on end on trains, boats and once even on planes.

Here in Denmark festivals usually include lots of people drinking beer from glass bottles, and when the booze enters, so exits whatever brains they may once have had and they just drop their bottles where they empty them. I don't want to have to pay to have my dog's paws patched up by a vet after stepping on that.. There are other reasons, too, but that's the main reason.

I'm lucky to have two alternative homes for my dog, so when I go gallivanting, he goes visiting. And when I get home we've both of us had a nice break, his a quiet one, mine less so.

That said, I don't mind in the least that there are (well behaved) dogs present at festivals, and the glass bottle problem seems to be more or less non-existent in Britain from what I've seen.

Best wishes,

Bente

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Jack Campin at work
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM

How about this cat then?

http://loanhead.gc.googlepages.com/fleetwoodstravels

The only dogs I've met at festivals have been no problem, but then I don't go to big festivals. I once watched a singer at Muchty attempting a ballad singing competition having brought her two small dogs with her. They followed her up on stage, sat up and begged, and rolled over around her feet while she was singing. She didn't win but deserved extra credit for managing to finish at all while they were stealing the show.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:37 PM

I am an absolute dog fanatic. I love the critter all of them. But in truth I don't want them at a festival. It is not the dogs. It is the owners, they don't lease like stated. They don't clean up their land mines. And the barking when the performer as playing is rude. My kids are all adults. When my 30 year old was 4 I went to a festival and took her along - she picked up a doggie pile and said, daddy look doggie poo

nope keep em home

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:35 PM

I am a dog owner, and a dog lover.{Don't go there}
Because I love my dog, I would NEVER take her to a folk festival.
There is a case for SOME dog free festivals, and there is also a case for SOME child free festivals.

JM

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:17 PM

I took my dog to a festival for the first time last weekend. I was only there for the day - any longer festivals I attended this summer, I made alternative arrangements for her.

It was all outdoors, so no need to go inside marquees for concerts. From the general response of people there (I never got further than about 5 feet before someone came up to ask about her, or stroke her), a lot of people seem to like dogs at festivals. She's quite small, so fairly unobtrusive. There were some excessively "friendly" children wanting to pull her ears and tail a lot, and a few over-refreshed individuals who wanted to lavish upon her all their booze-fuelled affection. But she stood it all with great dignity.

I think there are good, responsible dog owners just like there are good, responsible parents. Then there are people who are not really in control of their dog/child, and allow them to become a public nuisance. And usually they don't really care.

It's a pity when the former are punished for the irresponsible attitude of the latter. But sometimes, I admit, it's necessary.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: MaineDog
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:15 PM

I don't take my other half to festivals. Not that he does any harm, but he gets lonely if I am out of sight and then he barks like crazy. So I take him to a kennel where everybody barks all the time. When he gets home he enjoys the quiet.
MD

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:10 PM

Here in Maine we have a state leash law. Idiot owners can be fined for allowing dogs to run at large.Instead of talking to the owner, you just call a cop.
There is a huge Bluegrass festival here and they ban dogs, bicycles and motorcycles.

I don't understand why the idiot owner doesn't see that no one wants to step in his/her dogs poop, then track it into his 1/2 million dollar motor home.It's like their head is nothing more than a knot to keep their backbone from unraveling.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM

I can personally take em or leave em. But I don't have the last word sonce Knorra arrived. Banning them saves hassle and possible litigation and not to mention the poop. Not everyone scoops. Bigger the crowd, the more the potential for mess. What the hell, Ban em.

Or you could revive a Victorian occupation, "Pure Finding". Volunteer stewards might be a problem.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:08 PM

Dogs at festivals are fine if they are cooked slowly with plenty of curry sauce,A Hot Dog.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: open mike
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM

i don't think i have ever been to a festival that allowed dogs.
this must be a british situation, as in the u.s. we have dog-free
events. i do believe i saw one service dog at the festival last
weekend. and horses...security patrol horses and trail ride horses.

there was a bad incident last week elsewhere where a police horse
trampled a guy to death because it got spooked by a plastic bag
flying into its face.

Dogs? Cats? leave them home or in the kennel.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,dog owner
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:02 PM

I took my dog to Towersey, I won't again.
I am (I hope) a responsible dog owner, I wouldn't dream of taking my dog into a concert, or even the beer tent. He was on a lead all weekend, including when sleeping and on a stake out so he couldn't come out of our tent area. I exercised him several times a day away from the festival site. But he didn't enjoy it, and a lot was to do with other dog owners, dogs off lead running into our camping area.
I will be sorry if dogs are banned, mainly for some folk I see year after year with happy well controlled dogs, but it is a family festival.
Again, a small minority of dog owners spoiling it for the majority. Unthinkable not to pick up dog mess, and unexcusable to let a dog off a lead in such a situation.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:46 PM

The dog that bit my son came out from under the tent while walking past.He was well looked after by a fourteen year old lad.He was just like anyone else walking past a closed tent,it could have happened to anybody but it was my son.Who now has a very nasty scar on his left arm.


Scooby

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Banjiman
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:46 PM

Tough one.

We have a big, daft, overly friendly lab, we have occaisionally taken him to outdoor folk events.....but only where we have gone for the day never where we have gone to a full festival. He has enjoyed himself immensely! He's never bitten anyone but he does lick a lot.

However, I don't think we would take him for a full weekend, especially if we were playing. It would not be fair on other people to take him into marquees or other venues for long periods..... and I wouldn't want to leave him in the tent or car for long periods if it was warm.

We also have 2 small children..... it is much harder to find someone to look after them than the dog (and they won't stay shut in the tent so we end up taking them into events to disturb others)!

Seriously, they would always ask before approaching a dog they did not know.

Other dogs (and children!) have different temperaments.....if all dog owners were resposible I would leave it to them to decide if they want to take their dogs...... but not all dog owners are responsible so I guess a festival has to be prepared to police their rules and be prepared to clear up any doggy mess.

Paul

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:42 PM

Oh god how I miss the carefree, free spirited, fun loving atmosphere of festivals during the sixties. People were less uptight and this spirit seemed to infuse every one, people, kids, dogs and the birds in the sky all frolicking freely together and enjoying each other and the music in total abandon. Growing old can be confining.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Acorn4
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:35 PM

I think the smaller dogs are often worse - the type which can be grouped under the heading RATWEILERS.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM

I was bitten once on the knee by a dog in Montreal many years ago. He was on a leash but the lead was long enough that he could get to the sidewalk where I was walking. I didn't know it was there until it bit my leg. Kinda all done in three or four seconds. I killed it by putting my arms around its neck and cutting off its air. I may have broken its throat or neck because it was dead in under what seemed like two minutes. It was a mutt (50 pounds or so) with an attitude. He just happened to meet a human with an attitude.

I am a dog lover although no longer a dog owner. Sorry, but I lived on reserves and in settlements where dogs either behave or cease to exist. As much as I love the creatures, I have no sympathy for any animal that gratuitously attacks people. Period.

As for festivals, I don't think the dogs are there for the music. So, why cart Rover along? Working dogs are another matter entirely.

That's all I have to say about it.

PS I've lived around dogs for most of my life.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: oggie
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM

I have two dogs and would not dream of taking them to a festival. In fact it hadn't occurred to me that I might take them!

Why? It's a strange and noisy enviroment which totally disrupts ant routine your dog may have and may lead to behaviours it wouldn't usually exhibit. You have to be responsive to your dog so if it gets unsettled you must sort it first whether or not it's an artist you really want to see (and why go to a festival if not to see artist or play or dance as you want). Tents and cars get way to hot (even in a rainy summer) for dogs so you are tied to you dog aall the time. There are issues over hygiene etc even for well behaved dogs and owners.

So any festival I go to (whether or not I'm working it) the dogs go to kennels.

Steve

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:29 PM

Our first aiders are paramedics

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM

If a child was bitten by a dog at a festival:

1) Where was the dog's owner and doing what?
2) what was the child doing? either to the dog, or just generally(where were its parents, too!)

Children need training at festivals just as much as dogs, and also about dogs generally. One unfortunate habit is that small children will stare straight into a dog's eyes, and this is a threat in dog language. Both species need to learn how to cope with this if they're going to cohabit.

I'm not condoning a loose/uncontrolled dog situation, that was obviously the primary problem. The owner should at least have been told not to bring it again, or maybe even be removed and banned.

I took small children (5 & 6 the first time) to Cambridge Folk Festival amongst others, where they learnt (fast) how to behave sensibly in a crowd of potentially drunken adults (the Pogues barmy army on one occasion), how to find a parent or friend quickly at need, and how not to attract attention to themselves, before they were set loose. Once trained (about an hour) they greatly enjoyed the freedom of a closed site festival.

I now have two (very) large dogs who would not be welcome in a small festival, so they go to a dog hotel if necessary. I would still like children to meet them in a controlled situation because they are friendly creatures and I think dogs are good for children.

I appreciate that not everyone likes to have 50kg of dog put its paws on their shoulders and lick their face, exposing a set of teeth which do credit to a small shark, so I try and train them to only do it to us.

Paws (trying to type with a wolfhound peering over one shoulder)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:21 PM

I sounds like the evidence is stacking up against dogs - as somebody put it - why would somebody take a dog to a folk festival anyway? I would point out again the problem of the level of First Aid - is it up to heart attacks and multiple fractures?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:07 PM

It was ahot morning at Sidmouth and in those days the newletters were free i think it was 1988.Toby and Alans children took the letters around the tent when a dog came out and bit his are very badly.I was pregnant at the time and by the time we realised it was Toby and he was sorted out i went into having a miscarriage with the shock and i lost the baby in Exeter hospital.Many mudcatters here will remember that day.So i think dogs should be kept on leads at all times or not allowed at festivals.


Scooby

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,JHW in the library
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:05 PM

What about those events that say BYOD ?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:01 PM

My remarks were not aimed at trained assistance dogs. I see reasons for bringing them to festivals of course.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM

Got two well behaved dogs and wouldn't dream of taking them to s festival. Crowds, unfamiliar places, and loud noises are a sure way of stressing a dog. Why punish the dogs so?

Trained assistance dogs are another matter. If a visually impaired person needs their dog, that's good enough for me.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: nutty
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:35 AM

I have two dogs (noisy terriers) which stay at home when I go to festivals.

I only have a small camper van which I am reluctant to leave them in when I am otherwise engaged and very few festivals have exercise areas suitable for dogs off leaders.

Having said that many of my friends with large campers or caravans had perfectly adequate facilities for their dogs.

What does disturb me (and I saw far too much of it at Whitby this year) is the owner who insists on bringing a dog into a hot crowded bar or singaround/session.

They do no favours either to the dog or the rest of te people in there.
Totally selfish and thoughtless in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Snoopy
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM

"Any cats in there?"

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mad Spaniel
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM

I am (as you can guess) a dog owner and i hope, a good one with regards to behavoir and picking up.
However dogs don't behave as humans do and sometimes we put them in situations that are confusing and upsetting for them.
Too many people, too much noise and lots of temptations.
You have to know your dog but personally they should stay at home where they are safe and usually happier. Dog/house sitters have always worked well for me.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM

It is my view that (at festivals or not) there are no bad dogs but a great number bad owners#

Dave

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:18 AM

I have been bitten twice by dogs and my daughter was bitten at a festival in France and had to have rabies injections at the age of four.

On each occasion the dog-owner said the equivalent of "He's never done that before". When walking up to the Loxley Valley which is near my house there are loads of dog owners walking their dogs off the lease and many of them come slobbering up to me. "He's only being friendly" they say. Not as far as I am concerned he isn't.

No thanks, and not at festivals. Why on earth you would want to bring a dog to a folk festival?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:15 AM

I suspect that this was a random event that might happen if you get lots and lots of people together. I think the more important point is that with so many people, booze and excitement more random accidents will happen. The most important measure must be the ability of the organisers to provide appropriate help

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:11 AM

Just an afterthought to my previous posting. The one and only time my dog caused a nuisance in a public place was during a singing session at the English Country Music Weekend on a very hot day. Not unnaturally he decided to start panting. (Dogs do that to cool down, not as is commonly believed, because they're thirsty.) That would have been ok, except that my canine companion is the noisiest panter in creation. As soon as I realised that the racket was coming from the area round my feet and not from a nearby cement mixer, we left with as far as I could tell no ill feeling from anyone.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:06 AM

Whilst I wasn't at Shrewsbury (and not a dog owner although I grew up with a dog always in the family) I'd like to say that even the best behaved and even tempered dogs can snap when surprised or stressed. Many young children (and not so young) almost seem to think that a dog is like a teddy bear: you can play with it how you like with impunity. A dog owner, even with the dog on a lead, cannot prevent every child pulling or treading on the dog's tail for example.

I'd vote for dogs on leads at all times and not allowed in concert/dance venues (and perhaps muzzled?)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: pavane
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:06 AM

My point was really that many dog owners apparently cannot be trusted to obey the rules. It is too late once the damage is done. (And smaller dogs DO seem to be more of a problem to us.)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: John J
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:01 AM

I'm not a dog owner - and definitely not a dog fan.

In my opinion dogs shouldn't be banned (certainly not because of one unfortunate incident) but the owners should most definitely be made to be absolutely responsible for their doggies; they shouldn't impinge on anyone's enjoyment in any way. This means dogs being kept on leads and under control at all times, absolutely no doggie deposits anywhere, and no doggie noises in concerts - which probably means no dogs in concerts (apart from Guide Dogs of course).

At the end of the day festival goers don't want their festival ruined by dog noise / mess etc, and they most certainly don't want to be worried by out of control dogs - nor do they want to see a doggie in distress because of a thoughtless and irresponsible owner.

Doggies may like folk music too!

JJ

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mick Woods
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:57 AM

Dogs are nice animals but I'm afraid a lot of dog owners are not! They can't be bothered to keep control or clean up the shit.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Sabot Hure
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:51 AM

Thank you for that hint, pavane. You might think that a large dog would cause even more disruption, but a small one fits neatly into a rucksac.