Dogs at Festival

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:00 AM

We take our dog to festivals, in name, with our band, Whipstaff, so-called after our lurcher, Susie, who is half whippet and half staffie. She, however, stays at home with our son as she is not a good traveller, even though she would have a great time licking faces and sniffing bums (but not necessarily in that order).

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,not a dog owner
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:34 AM

so long as dogs are controlled and friendly I really like having them around at festivals even though I don't have one myself.

did I say that already... ??

I actively enjoy going to festivals attended by people with nice friendly dogs. Of which there are many. I don't have my own dog cos my lifestyle wouldn't be fair on one but I enjoy spending time around dogs, and can totally understand why a dog owner would want to take their pet to a festival. I know plenty of dogs who appear to enjoy the experience.

If you don't like them or are phobic or whatever then yes if a festival is trying to cater for all it should allow you to avoid dogs if you so wish... but if they're on a lead, you can, within reason.

Yes, some dogs bite. A small minority of dogs. Owened by irresponsible people. Equally, some cars run people over and injur them... if driven by a small minority of irresponsible people. Should we be banning cars at festivals too??

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:21 AM

Dave,

"And has anyone else noticed - none of these perfectly-behaved-dogs-with-extremely-responsible-owners-that-go-to- folk-festivals-and-are-loved-by-everyone - none of them - not one - ever barks?"

It's true, paragons of dogism I'd say. As for foxes we only have Urbane Foxes in Manchester and they wouldn't be seen dead at a Folk Festival on the grounds of dress code alone.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:47 AM

Do badgers, foxes, cows and sheep not do big poos, then? You must live in a different countryside than me.

I have never seen any of those things at festivals. Where did you see them? I think we should be told, so that we think about it as a festival we might want to avoid. Incidentally we have a lot of urban foxes around here in Sheffield (or one fox that gets around a lot!) Do you think it is the urban fox that leaves shit all over the pavements?

A security dog is just that. No connections with taking dogs to festivals. I am sure if the organisers wanted a dog patrol I am sure they asked for it and were insured against any untoward damage the security dog might have done. Because had that dog bit me I would have sued (as I did the owner of one of the dogs that bit me). And I don't remember signs saying "guard dogs on patrol" at Sidmouth - did I miss something?

Anyone who approaches an unknown dog is needs a gentle word in their ear as far as I am concerned.   

You left your dogs in tents or caravans whilst you enjoyed the festival? Does the dog mean so much to you that you are happy to leave it locked up in a caravan or a hot tent whilst you go and enjoy a folk festival? Or do you only go to festivals when it is cold weather - easily done this year I must admit.

And if you and your dog were at a folk festival together they did not fully integrate with me I can assure you. Why did you not leave it in kennels? He was emphatically not part of the festival - though he may have been in some people's eyes.

Incidentally there was a touch of anthropomorphism creeping in there.

I do doubt that the dog made two arrests for the police. At least not on his own.........

And has anyone else noticed - none of these perfectly-behaved-dogs-with-extremely-responsible-owners-that-go-to- folk-festivals-and-are-loved-by-everyone - none of them - not one - ever barks?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: romany man
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:29 AM

Folkie dave if i went back to america it would be to stay, my 5 years working there were great,as for being difficult to get into the states , good on them, its about time someone stood up and said we dont want undesirables, and hey there is no problem getting dogs onto airlines should the need arise as long as they are properly crated inoculated etc, check facts before posting to forums, its monday im grumpy and ready for a row. just wait till i get to work im gonna really let rip. ha ha.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: melodeonboy
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:37 AM

Has anyone seen the latest poster advert for Drontal dog worming pills? They've been put up in half the bus shelters in the Maidstone area (and presumably elsewhere). I find it very difficult to look at it without laughing.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:22 AM

I really must tender my sincerest regrets...........

.....My Karma has just run over your Dogma.

Ralph

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:47 PM

I must declare that I am a "retired" dog owner, no longer able give a dog the type of life it should enjoy. However, all of the dogs I have owned have been taken to festivals, have lived with me in the tent or motorcaravan, and have fully integrated themselves with other festival-goers.
One of my dogs, a large lurcher, is still talked about fifteen years after his death. He walked with me on night security on the camp site at Sidmouth for many years. He deterred a number of people each year from coming "over the fence" at night. Some of these might have had evil intent. He made two arrests for the police. After two years of "voluntary" work he was always awarded his own steward's badge.
He could not have been left at home because he was part of the festival.
Besides, clever as he was, he never learned to use a tin-opener.

Colyn.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: folk1e
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:32 PM

OK .....I have a dog. I take my dog to all the festivals I go to, but would not take her into a venue!
She definitely enjoys them and does not cause a problem (we are in a caravan not a tent). People like her and generally want to stroke her (which she LOVES).
It still ticks me off to see dogs loose and uncontrolled, as I know we are judged by their standards!

If there was a dog ban I would almost certainly choose not to attend!
I steward at some of the festivals mentioned above (Shrewsbury Saddleworth Fylde Cleckheaton) and whilst I am certainly not indispensable ...... how many stewards/ punters can festivals afford to loose in these hard times?

PS   Mrs Akroyd definitely used to bite!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:18 PM

Do badgers, foxes, cows and sheep not do big poos, then? You must live in a different countryside than me.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 07:45 PM

OK. Jeri, there is animal shite everywhere, there's no denying. But rat shite, mouse shite, bird shite and all the rest are little turds that dry out quickly, get eaten by slugs overnight (who'd be a slug!) and generally don't get semi-permanently embedded in the tread of yer Jaysus-boots. Dog turds are big squashy things that last for days and attract flies (which then get contaminated and spread the pathogens all over the place) and are host to all manner of unpleasant diseases. Just tell the parents of the girl who died from E. coli infection picked up from dogshit (proven) on Dawlish beach a few years ago that dog turds don't matter.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mo the caller
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:53 PM

All this assumes that the festival is on a closed site.
If, like Chippenham, it is all over town and the public has access to the campsite then it would not be fair to ban dogs from the campsite, though you could (and they probably do) say no dogs inside the concerts and dances.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: oggie
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:47 PM

"If you've just shelled out over £100 for a weekend camping ticket to a festival, then sometimes the additional cost of kennelling a dog is just too much. It's either take the dog or not go at all, and I'm pretty sure most people would opt to take the dog."

Dogs are expensive, period. Insurance alone (you do, as a responsible dog owner have it, don't you?) is about £200 per dog per year. Food, vets bills etc on top. It ain't cheap. So kennelling is expensive? Part of owning a dog.

Having just lost an expensive stall cloth and some stock from a "well behaved and controlled dog" (on a lead even) that decided to take a p**s whilst it's owner was nattering to a friend I may well be biased! The lead was six foot long! Under control! Compensation offered? Nil! Got very shirty when I asked for name and address as I was claiming against their insurance. Guess what? They're not insured. One court claim coming up.

Steve

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:48 PM

At Ely last year there was a young man with a boxer that he let do largely as it wished on a loose lead while he drank (and incidentally it was lager not bitter!) with his knuckle-dragging friends while the dog threatened any other dog anywhere near, and looked pretty iffy with humans too. He should have been made to leave.

Of course he should have been made to leave - and there was a rush of volunteers to do the job I am sure.

He got to stay precisely because he had a boxer and was young and had been drinking and because he had a load of knuckle-dragging friends and his dog looked pretty iffy with humans.

Throughout this thread I have said that once it is necessary to ask the dog and its owner to leave (and nearly everyone on this thread seems to think such occasions occur),it is too late.

Much easier not to let them in.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:35 PM

Richard, I think you are speaking complete sense. Thankyou.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM

There do seem to be some rabid dog-haters here. AFAIK in the UK dog-haters are rare. There is a long symbiosis between dog and man (person) and we should ignore the extremists on both sides.

That said, if you are at a dog show and your dog goes for another dog you will normally be thrown out of the show for having an animal not under proper control. I have seen behaviour by both dogs and dog owners at festivals that would not be tolerated at dog shows. At Ely last year there was a young man with a boxer that he let do largely as it wished on a loose lead while he drank (and incidentally it was lager not bitter!) with his knuckle-dragging friends while the dog threatened any other dog anywhere near, and looked pretty iffy with humans too. He should have been made to leave.

Some animals do just fine at some festivals. I'm just back from the Knockholt folk-ale and there were 5 dogs and 2 ferrets there, (only about 30 people) and sheep in the next field: zero problems. But it's an acoustic festival and many dogs, particularly if they are gun-shy plainly suffer in range of amplified kick drum and electric bass so it is probably not a good idea to take most dogs to electric festivals.

I wouldn't take my Benjamin (border-cross) to an electric festival because I know he can be pretty iffy with other dogs, and ambivalent with some people, outside the house - and he will suffer, and therefore be more on edge in crowds and/or near loud amplification.

I can't take him to Knockholt either because of the sheep. It isn't rocket science.

If people applied sense, and those who didn't were speedily ejected, I think the problem would be insignificant.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:45 PM

Bruce, sounds like a bumper sticker.

I grew up in the country and was a veterinary technician as well (after growing up). I also have never eaten a dog turd on purpose. I've probably consumed accidental poop though, because it's everywhere and you don't develop an immunity to parasites. Plus, I had a dog and played in the grass. I never had roundworms to my knowledge. I think the major dogs-at-festival issue would be bites.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:36 PM

Animals with up to date pet passports are allowed into the UK (a bill presented originally by the Monster Raving Looney Party but adopted by the government of the time), which will give pedigree, vet's records, innoculations and other relevant information.

Jeri - I grew up in the country, poop is all around us. I was just pointing out the hazards that make more dog poop undesirable. Turds do not carry little cards to say if they've been innoculated, so all turds should be treated as potentially harmful. Not all pet owners worm regularly - many don't even know if their pet has had all its shots, neither do they check faeces for worms. But to consider grass as nothing but poop carrier, then we'd never enjoy sitting out on the lawn or in the park or on a hillside again. Sensible precautions such as not eating stuff that falls on the grass, washing hands and not licking the turf mean we avoid the worst.

Having said that, the best way to get a healthy immune system is to expose it to many and varied sorts of bacteria. You just can't win.

LTS

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:17 PM

Not dog food. Dog!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:11 PM

It's harder to get a dog into the UK. There is no rabies, and I believe they'd like it to stay that way so there is a lengthy quarantine. I think airlines transport animals.

Liz, my point was that grass should always be considered to have been previously crapped upon by something.

And airlines carry pets. If they didn't, there would be no international dog shows. I don't even think the furballs need passports!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,dog owner
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:09 PM

LTS -
roundworm will only be present in unwormed dogs. Although there is the argument that those who don't worm their dogs may also be those who don't clear up after them. Not all faeces are dangerous.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:56 PM

To Romany Man

If you could go to America for a the cost of a festival - where would you put your dogs - because they won't be allowed onto an airline! And IMHE it's hard enough for a human to get into the USA never mind someone accompanied by a dog!!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM

The "crap on the grass" argument is caused by the known bacterial and parasitic infections and infestations that can be carried by both dog and cat turds. You might think that by the time the turd has gone white and blown into the winds, they are no longer so dangerous, but Toxicara Roundworm eggs will stay in the soil. The "Dogs (Fouling of Land) Act 1996)" was passed (sorry) in order to cut down on dog mess in public places and an 'on the spot' fine of up to £1000 is payable if you're caught.

"Someone who falls into or accidentally touches dog faeces could be at risk from a disease call Toxocariasis which can lead to abdominal pain, pneumonia, asthma and even blindness.

And the problem doesn't go away the longer the dog faeces is left. Toxicara eggs can take up to two weeks to hatch." - quoted from the Reigate and Banstead Borough Council site.

Dog bites pale into insignificance compared with other bites and the infectious material passed in human on human bite action. Mind you, pigs are worse.


LTS

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:17 PM

I'm really astounded at how livid some contributors seem!

I don't believe dogs should be allowed at larger festivals because of the noise and the possibility of biting. Any dog that thinks it, it's owner or it's territory are threatened will bite. Not fair to the people, not fair to the dogs.

Smaller festivals with fewer people, and I don't have a problem. The festival organizers and land owners must take responsibility for possible lawsuits.

The crap-on-the-grass argument is just plain stupid.
Skunks, woodchucks, foxes, rats, mice, rabbits, hedgehogs, birds, bugs, and everything else that lives outside shits on grass. It either gets picked up, washed off, or it dries up then it blows away and winds up in your mouth when you inhale to sing or bitch about dogs. Crap is everywhere. This hit home when I was in Kuwait and observed a dog present dry up and blow away in a couple of days. Where was it? Taken by the wind. It was in the air, along with all the other shit that had dried up and blown away over the centuries and everything that had burnt, including the people who had been incinerated during the war.

As for Bruce's comment: why eat dog food when you can use it for bait. (I love dogs and although I lived in S. Korea, I've never eaten one.)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:44 PM

Oh by the way, I don't have a dog, I have cats and a cat sitter comes in when we're away.

I like to see well behaved dogs but as the mother of an occasionally not so well behaved child, I can see both sides. Tolerance goes both ways.

LTS

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:35 PM

OK! I'v been reading this thread right along, Debating whether or not to add my 2 cents. And here goes. The Mystic Seaport Festival has now been brought up by 2 contributors, and I will be the turd. Those of you who know me are aware that I'v been involved with the Mystic festival in various capacities for several years now. Whereas this may not be the opinion of the Management per se, I would venture to say that 'dog noise' is probably the #2 or 3 major annual nuisance at the festival. I don't recall anyone ever being bit, but the incidence Barry described earlier is certainly not a unique one, and on that and other occasions it is pure chance that no one was physically injured. Take also into consideration we have horses on the grounds at Mystic Seaport. Do you have any Idea what goes through a horses mind when it sees, hears, or smells a dog? The horse usually has no idea whether the dog is leashed or not, but the horse is usually very uncomfortable. Trust me, more than one "dog lover" has been heard saying "That's the horse driver's problem. My dog is well behaved.", meanwhile Fido is barking away at Mister Ed. Steve Shaw's comments do hold a degree of truth. Children do play on the village green; people do sit there and listen to music, and your smearing the turd with a baggy does not mean I won't find remnants on my shoes or jeans. Back to my first point, 'Dog Noise'. Dogs are social animals, they are not solitary beings in the wild, and when they see or smell another dog or animal the dog's tendency is to announce his excitement vocally. I don't know or care if they're saying "Hi, Hi, Hi" or "@#$% You, @#$% You, @#$% You", but the fact remains that they do tend to vocalize and don't seem to want to be taught to whisper. This is totally inconsiderate to performers and other patrons. I once made a comment from the main stage at Mystic to the effect of, "If you can't teach your dog to behave in public, leave it home. If my children behaved like your dog, I'd leave them at home." The response to which was a huge Cheer, (unfortunately the largest ovation I'v ever received professionally), and 2 people left. Some of you say restricted areas. Why would you go to a festival and not listen to music? If you are listening to music you're probably distracting someone.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:31 PM

Dog is a food for very hungry times. Just thought I'd mention that.

I like dogs, usually. I like most animals. I'm gonna take a Komodo dragon--ON A LEASH--to the next festival. Have it deal with the goose.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: romany man
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:27 PM

As one who has taken my jack russells to festivals, they stay on leads at all times are excersised away from the festival grounds, i clean up after them, its not hard or difficult to do. as for not being bothered to kennel them, on the two occassions i have done so, both dogs ended up with kennel cough one nearly dying through complications to the kennel cough, and simply the cost, i could go to america for a good holiday in the sun for the money spent on a, getting to festival. b, costs at the festival, c, camoing costs, d, cost of kenneling, There will always be arguments about dogs, i work my dogs as my job is pest control, so should i stop going to festivals because of all this hoo ha,

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:31 AM

It's my experience both in real life, in local newspaper letter columns and on forums that you can't criticise dogs or their owners without attracting automatic howls of protest and insults from "dog-lovers." One such person, in a riposte to a letter of mine in the local rag, claimed that horses on beaches were much worse than dogs because they left so much more mess.   What you will never get is a dog-owner who will admit to what we all know is the case - that most owners have no idea how to control their dogs nor do they pick up the mess (unless they think someone was looking when the dastardly substance was being offloaded). Actually, the response on this thread has been very civilised.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:36 AM

sandra,

many threads end up argumentative, I think it is the nature of one statement following another and some people not reading what others have written much earlier.

Most of the reasoned discussion probably occurs in the first 30 or 40 posts. After that things often repeated.

Thanks for great festival

L in C

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:31 AM

I am sorry that this thread has become argumentative. I had no idea that feelings ran so high on the subject of dogs. Thanks to all who have contributed.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Fido
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:10 AM

A dog in the hen house!

Seems to me that this thread is becoming a slanging match and won't be long before it's stopped. I suspect Sandra has her answer here.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:51 AM

Liz, you choose to own a dog. That means you have to put up with various restrictions on your life. You have to walk the dog, feed the dog etc etc. You have to wipe up it's shit - although judging by the amounts on streets and open countryside where I live few dog owners seem to do so. Yes yes, I know they are irresponsible dog owners.

Let me tell you how irresponsible dog owners can be.
Dog owners in the this area were happy to walk their dogs on the school playing field. The one their kids were now unable to use for sports because of the dog shit. Yes, yes irresponsible dog owners - clearly their dogs were more important than their kid's recreation. The fact we can identify them as irresponsible did not make any difference to the fact that the school playing field was covered in dog shit.

The school had to raise the money and make an application from "Awards for All" to erect a "caged area" to be locked each evening and raise the money to re-seed the area. I would have preferred to bill the dog owners and the teacher's not to have spend their time writing applications for what ought to have been unnecesary funding. I am prepared to bet if challenged the guilty dog-owners would have thrown up their hands in horror and said "Not me guv', I am a responsible dog-owner".

I barred myself from a local pub because there was a dog running around loose near the kitchen and being a dog lover (sorry responsible dog-owner) the landlady took the dog's side. I wished her luck and suggested the dog would probably not buy as much beer as I did. Probably cost her hundreds of pounds over the years!

If you decide to attend a festival then you need to factor into the cost of leaving your dog behind in your other costs, food and drink for example, and then decide whether you can afford the festival or not.

It really is that simple.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:01 AM

"The fact is that dogs at festivals are there because their owners cannot be bothered to make alternative arrangements."

I too would disagree with this comment.

If you've just shelled out over £100 for a weekend camping ticket to a festival, then sometimes the additional cost of kennelling a dog is just too much. It's either take the dog or not go at all, and I'm pretty sure most people would opt to take the dog.

LTS

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:58 PM

Oh, I should mention that my dog doesn't know a seeing eye dog from Adam.

Barry

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:53 PM

I don't mind dogs at all, matter of wack I have one at home & I leave her there every time I go out. She's a good dog, she'll bark when a stranger enters the yard, if you make a threatening move towards my kids she'll be all over you like a new suit, she' doesn't mess on the floor anymore cause she fertilizes the lawn & garden. I don't bring her to festivals though cause I can't trust her. If some kid wants to pet her & she's hot she probably will just lick the kid's hand but then the little brat might try & steal her doggie bone & the dog would be right to rip the kid's arm off. Another reason I don't bring her to festivals is because I hate pet snakes & so does my dog. Now if my dog can attend a festival what's to keep the pet snakes away & how can I tell my dog "DON'T" when she clamps her jaws on the ugly snakes back bone. Then it's goona be cats & rats & eliefants & infant unicorns with horns. I like to walkabout at festivals, hit different camp sites, go to a varity of workshops. Speaking of workshops,,, if I were to attend one about 'how to yodle' won't that be a muzzle, my dog could co-lead it, she can really howl. Bring in Allen Ginsburg. Really though how you gonna control a dog when through the loud speakers someone starts in with "I got a dog & her name is blue" then goes into a falsetto, forget it.

I was at Mystic a couple yrs ago & some of the group brought their dogs, one sailed through a few storms to get there, he wasn't right, took the whole festival before he was ok again. That dog hung it's self by it's leash when it got all wrapped up around the tree it was tied to. Good thing he could still yap, almost like a death nell, cause someone freed him from his noose & it attacked 2 others dogs on leashes at the red light in the middle of the street, good thing it happened in the crosswalk. It wasn't a fair fight, the owner of the other 2 dogs wouldn't let their dogs go so the little shit beat the crap out of both of them, they were much bigger too. The only reason it stopped was cause the owner of those 2 dogs got all wrapped up in the leashes & fell down, so the little shit dog let the other 2 dogs go & went for their ownber. By then someone found the little shit's owner & he wisked him away. The other dog was better though, it sat on stage during the performence & had on a T-shirt just like the performers & you couldn't tell it from us, except it drooled over some of the folks in the front row. Anyway the group'll probably never be invited back to Mystic again, not really the dog's fault, the dog never was off key, once but it couldn't play the pipes at all, it was awfull, it tried everything that made a noise & sucked at all of them, never found out who owned the instruments. I think Mystic may be rethinking their pet policy too.

Barry

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:36 PM

"Some of you absolutists need to get off your high horses. You pontificate in generalities from the very narrow position of your own circumstances or prejudices."

Pretty much sums up all I have to say on the matter.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:29 PM

No you haven't. I asked you a reasonable question following your slagging off and you never got back to me! (Shut up, Steve...you're not worth it...) :-)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:16 PM

The usual pleasantries from Mr Shaw, I see. I've made my points. I'm done.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:06 PM

Like I said.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:47 PM

I suppose a pet will never challenge you with a reasonable argument.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:34 PM

It's not difficult to see why some people prefer their pets over people.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:26 PM

It is very hard to understand for quite a few of us humans that dogs can be such integral parts of the family that they simply have to be imposed on everyone else who are not part of your family. They bark, they piss, they crap, they jump up at people, all things which, if I did them, would have me rapidly consigned to the secure unit of some institution or other. My two ancient cats are integral parts of my family too. But I decided years ago that any animal I owned would not be a burden to me or anyone else outside my home. Therefore I selected a kind of animal for a pet that I would never have to impose on anyone else. If you meet me at a festival you may rest assured that my cats will be lurking in the greenhouse or somewhere similar back home, not yowling at you, shitting next to your tent (or pissing on it) or scaring your kids.   The biggest failing of dog-owners (apart from the extremely peculiar mindset that is the prerequisite for anyone who thinks it's a great idea to own a parasitic, unhygienic shitting machine) is that they can't understand why the rest of us don't all receive their disgusting little pooches with open arms. It's obvious. Do three things. Smell its arse, accidentally tread its shite into your carpet (the rest of us do), and try to have a conversation with it.   Next stop, the dog's home, and good riddance.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:11 PM

"The fact is that dogs at festivals are there because their owners cannot be bothered to make alternative arrangements."

That's unfair, Uncle Dave. I kennelled my dog for each of the festivals where I was either camping or staying in accommodation this year. The only festival I took her to was last weekend, because I was only going for the afternoon, and I honestly thought she'd enjoy it. She did. And all of the people who stopped to talk to her enjoyed seeing her, too.

It's probably hard to understand if you're not a dog lover, but for people who are, the dog is a part of their family. They don't take them to festivals because they can't be bothered to make alternative arrangements: they take them because the dogs are their companions and they like having them around. If the dog is well behaved and the owner is responsible, there's really no reason that this needs to be a problem.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM

Just to add an extra point here, I have an autistic son, who is now 20, but like many autistic people is very scared of dogs.

We don't take James to Folk Festivals but I think our experiences may illustrate someting about dog owners. The biggest problem is meeting dogs on footpaths. James's fears are irrational and probably due to the unpredictability of dogs' behaviour.

We've found that dog owners fall into 3 groups. Group one, which I would say was probably about 90% read the situation when they see me holding onto James and will either put the dog on a lead ( James is OK with dogs on leads!) or hold it while we go past.

Group 2 will say something like "(S)he's very friendly, (s)he only wants to play" , but are fine when the situation is explained -there are probably about 8%.

It is group 3 (about 2%) that are the problem. On one occasion we ran across an Alsatian that appeared about 100 yards before its owners, causing James to mount a wall at the side of the footpath on the other side of which was a 20 foot drop. When the owners finally arrived I was holding on to my son tightly and it was about two or three minutes before they managed to get their beast on a lead.

The worst example was when a woman was "walking" her three large dogs off leads and they refused to leave James alone and surrounded him barking loudly. When I asked the woman if she would mind controlling her dogs, she replied that I SHOULD CONTROL MY SON!

She was one of those ignorant stuck up cows in Jodhphurs and although the only example of this sort of behaviour I have encountered, it did put us back to square one in our efforts to get James to not be scared of dogs.

I think these percentages probably translate quite well to those who have dogs at Folk Festivals - I think it would be a shame to make a blanket ban because of a few individuals.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:58 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed meeting other people's dogs at Shrewsbury folk festival and got a great deal of pleasure from the simple fact that they were there

I wasn't at Shrewsbury but I never get any pleasure out of meeting a dog at festivals - whether or not they are accompanied by their owners.

The fact is that dogs at festivals are there because their owners cannot be bothered to make alternative arrangements. They are certainly not there for the dogs' benefit - for until someone appraises me differently dogs get nothing out of a folk festival that cannot be easily obtained without one.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:35 PM

I live near a big beach and a marshes nature reserve. This is what I see happening. If a dog-owner thinks someone is watching, they will pick up the shit (though I have to question the mentality of anyone who isn't utterly repelled by the thought, or feel, of nice, warm, fresh dog crap like putty in your hand with only 10 microns of plastic separating you from the vileness of the ordure). If no-one is looking (or they think no-one is looking) they leave the shit where it is. A very large number of those who were forced to pick it up resort to chucking the scrotum-like bag of turdaceousness into the nearest hedge. The bushes round here are festooned with these abominations.   On the marshes, almost all dog-owners (seven out of eight on a snapshot occasion the other day) ignore the prominent signs to keep dogs on leads (so as not to disturb ground-nesting birds and so on). As dog-owners can't actually read, the council has even resorted to painting large dogs-on-leads signs on the footpaths. But as dog-owners also have visual-spatial problems, these don't work either. The dogs charge around the marshes with gay abandon. Every dog-owner thinks their little darling is the exception that does not require these reasonable restrictions. Walking on the beach, you can expect to be routinely accosted by dogs racing around hundreds of yards from their owners. In addition, you will nearly always come across some moron "playing" with their incessantly-barking dog on the beach and taking absolutely no steps whatever to curb the racket, which can be heard on the clifftops half a mile away. If you're at a festival, and your stupid dog is belting around outside your control, leaving piss and crap wherever little children play, and some bearded old git comes up to you to protest, don't worry. It won't be me.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Greg B
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:11 PM

"I recognise the pleasure dog owners get. I have delivered political
leaflets 4 or 5 times a year for nearly 40 years. I never go into
gardens were I suspect their may be a dog."

Another good reason to have a dog. They reduce litter and save
trees.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,dog owner
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:48 PM

Sorry to be picky here Steve Shaw, but I have also trained my dog to urinate on command and at Towersey, I frequently took him to a piece of grass totally unused by people, away from any footpaths for him to relieve himself.
I'm sorry, but I do control my dog. And my children.
And I'm not taking my dog for my own reasons. I enjoy seeing other people's well behaved dogs.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:05 PM

Well, Ruth Archer (I have to use your surname as I'm in Grumblin' Joe Grundy mode, and he always calls everyone by both their names, perhaps you would care to apprise me of the connection between what I said in some previous post and what I said today.   Let's face it, Ruth Archer. You don't care for me ~and~ you probably have a cur or two.