BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin

Subject: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: 3refs
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 10:06 AM

First and foremost, this has absolutely nothing to do with the new President or the negativity and rhetoric about "Uncle Tom's"!
I had to get up early one morning recently, at a rediculess hour even for fishing, and while I was having my morning "Timmy's"(only in Canada you say!)I turned on the T.V. to check the temperature outside(-31). I did a little channel surfing and started to watch a show about Uncle Tom's Cabin(the ice will still be there). I had absolutely no idea that the historical site is in Ontario, Canada. I don't recall if the program was by The National Film Board Of Canada or not, but it was a great little program.
They made quite a few references to the book. The most astonishing revelation to me was the fact that it was the best selling book of the 19th century, second only to The Bible!
A short time later, I was in the hut, listening to a radio program from Toronto(have I ever said I...never mind) where the topic was about banning books in schools that used language or betrayed people in a way that is now considered socially unacceptable; Uncle Tom's Cabin, To Kill a Mockingbird and so on. How freakin far will these people go.
I am of Scottish heritage, and for hundreds of years my ancestors were enslaved, murdered, called unflattering names and let's not forget that "Primae Noctis" thing, we got over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 10:33 AM

For some -- Emmett Till, the Evers brothers, Martin Luther King, the Japanese Internments in the US, the Internments in Canada, Apartheid, the Killing Fields, Stalin's purges, the Armenian genocide, Hutus, Bosnia, Tutsis, Darfur -- the evils are too recent and even ongoing.

Even the Scots took a while to give up bitterness over the Jus Primus Nocte, Glendalough, the Clearances, and the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:23 AM

For our two Canadian friends, who obviously believe whole-heartedly in the Mel Gibson school of Scottish History - the lowdown on "Jus Primus Nocte" from a Scot:

- The existence of a "right of the first night", or "Jus Primus Nocte" in the Middle Ages was first disputed in the 19th century.

- Most historians today would agree that there was no such authentic custom in the Middle Ages.

- The origin of this mythical "right" can be traced to the writings of Hector Boece in 16th Century Scotland who referred to the decree of the Scottish king Evenus III that "the lord of the ground shall have the maidenhead of all virgins dwelling on the same."

- Unfortunately for Hector Boece, and his reputation as an authority on Scottish History, King Evenus III of Scotland never existed. Boece's "account" of both King and decree were complete works of fiction.

Now why the Scots should be bitter about Glendalough, I haven't the foggiest notion, Glendalogh being a small place in Ireland. Maybe it was Glencoe Rapaire was referring to.

The "Clearances", Rapaire doesn't specify which ones but they were mostly instigated and carried out by Scottish Landowners - Not the big bad English as most fondly like to imagine, the first set of "Clearances" actually being carried out before the Union of Parliaments.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: pdq
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:30 AM

I believe that either Tom Sawyer or Huckelberry Finn is under attack, maybe both. I recall there was an attempt to ban one of them (years ago) because of scene were the White kid smokes dope.

Now the book banning efforts come from the Left and involve race. In the past such efforts were based on vulgarity, drugs, politics and patriotism. Now it is an immaginary sin called "stereotyping". Get a life.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:47 AM

Here is a page about the original of "Uncle Tom" - Reverend Josiah Henson, with a photograph.

"Recognized for his contributions to the abolition movement and for his work in the Underground Railroad, he rose to international fame after Harriet Beecher Stowe acknowledged his memoirs as a source for her 1852 anti-slavery novel, Uncle Tom's Cabin. It was Henson's life experiences that inspired Ms. Stowe's creation of the character Uncle Tom in her 1852 outcry against slavery.

In fact Uncle Tom in the book is in no way "an Uncle Tom" in the way that term has come to be used. Stage and early screen adaptations probably led to that distortion.

Here is the book itself online.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:54 AM

Yes, Glencoe. I'm on medication and not getting everything straight. And the "Clearances" include those in Ireland, Canada, and elsewhere.

No country, Teribus, has clean hands. Not one.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: 3refs
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:59 AM

The way an "Uncle Tom" is portrayed now was in reference to the way a person of colour might coddle a white person(for the lack of a better explanation). It really came to prominence when used by Malcolm X in the 60's.

I think!

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: bubblyrat
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:08 PM

I read it as a child ( we did it at school ), and I just thought it was a nice story !! Fuck me, how wrong I obviously was !!

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: pdq
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:16 PM

Books Banned at One Time or Another in the United States

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:34 PM

Rapaire... "And the "Clearances" include those in Ireland, Canada, and elsewhere."

What "Clearance" was done in Canada? That is, after 1867?

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:51 PM

because of scene were the White kid smokes dope.

What books did you - or the idiot that made this statement - read? Certainly not the ones by Sam Clemens.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Charmion
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:01 PM

You wouldn't be too far wrong to apply the term "clearance" to the Canadian government's internment of citizens of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (Ukrainians, Moldovans, Hungarians and quite a few others) during the First World War, and everybody in Canada who looked Japanese during the Second World War. Those folks were ordered off their land and forcibly moved to places where they did not want to go. It was done out of (misplaced) concern for national security, not to free up the land for other uses, but the results were similar.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:32 PM

That list of banned books by pdq in the United States includes mostly unenforceable bans by local governments, school boards, etc., that didn't stop sales except locally. The list probably could be enlarged, but except for those listed below, was never applied beyond a city, state, school board list, etc.

Canada and U. S. bans by federal agencies (none since 1963):

Candide, Voltaire, U. S. by Customs, 1930, not upheld.
Droll Stories, de Balzac, Canada in 1914
Fanny Hill, Cleland, U. S., 1821, 1963 (last book banned in U. S.)
The Federal Mafia, Schiff, Nevada Court injunction, as fraudulant.
The Grapes of Wrath, Steinbeck, California and locally.
Lady Chatterley's Lover, Lawrence, U. S., temporarily for obscenity.
Naked Lunch, Burroughs, banned in Boston but reversed by Mass. Court of Appeals. (Publishers liked to have their books banned in Boston as it aided nationwide sales).
Tropic of Cancer, Miller, U. S. 1930s-1960s, along with most of Miller's work.
Ulysses, James Joyce, U. S., temporarily banned but overthrown on appeal.

Several were banned in Great Britain, starting with a screed by Milton. Probably the most talked about was "Well of Loneliness," lesbian theme, 1928-1949 (republication).

Black Beauty was banned in South Africa because of 'black' in the title.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:36 PM

See list of "most commonly challenged books" in Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_commonly_challenged_books_in_the_U. S.
(or just google)

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:33 PM

Don't forget the Quran, the Bible (both Testaments), the Book of Mormon, and other such things.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:36 PM

By the way -- if you actually READ "Uncle Tom's Cabin" you'd find Uncle Tom wasn't all that much of a happy, banjo-strummin', watermelon-eatin', darkie as the common opprobrium makes him out to be. Sorry, you'll have to read it yourself because I'm too damned tired to cite passages.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:46 PM

I disagree, Charmion. Those were not "Clearances" and I don't agree that one could apply the term to those situations without being "too far wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: meself
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 04:20 PM

"I am of Scottish heritage, and for hundreds of years my ancestors were enslaved, murdered, called unflattering names and let's not forget that "Primae Noctis" thing, we got over it."

Oh, come on. I'm "of Scottish heritage" as well, but to equate the experiences of the Scots in North America with that of the Africans is ridiculous. Or, to imply some kind of superiority because our ancestors went through hard times and "we got over it" -well, speaking for myself, I didn't have to "get over" anything ...

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 08:13 PM

We're drifting here - but though it's true enough Canada wasn't independent of the British for another century - the process by which the French speaking Acadians were cleared out of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island, and ended up becoming the Cajuns, was essentially a Clearance.
...................................

Here's a searchable online text of Uncle Tom's Cabin which is probably more convenient for reading than the one I gave earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 08:30 PM

Some books are still banned in the US. With the ban very seriously enforced.

Anything that can be labelled as making fraudulent medical claims is in that category - the laws used to pulp Wilhelm Reich's books and send him to die in prison.

And national security is a useful excuse for anything else political. The US government's case against The Progressive ultimately failed, but the ban on the official Iranian transcripts of documents found in the American Embassy when they occupied it still stands.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: meself
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 08:46 PM

Josiah Henson's autobiography is here. It is short enough and written in a simple enough style that it can be read in one sitting.

I feel a curious kind of affinity to Henson simply because at a tender age I read a biography of him, and then persuaded my parents to take us to the historical site, which wasn't terribly far from where we lived. My most vivid memory of that event was a bout of profound car sickness - I'll spare you the details, but my father did describe it as a "sterling silver performance" ...

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 11:36 PM

Wilhelm Reich's books are readily available at Alibris and Abebooks, even some reprints at Amazon.
The FDA judged that his medical claims were fradulent, and the publisher destroyed stocks on hand of books making the claims.
His medical claims were largely nonsense and have been discredited.
The books were not banned.
Proper action was taken.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 08:15 AM

As I recall, Huckleberry Finn was banned because Clemens used the word "Nigger". Finn also smoked a pipe but I don't remember anything about dope.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: 3refs
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 03:40 PM

I never said in North America!

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:41 PM

There is a difference between books banned by government action (e.g., Ulysses or Tropic of Cancer) and books banned by a community or a library (e.g., Harry Potter, Huck Finn). Here's a list from the American Library Associations Intellectual Freedom Committee of the 10 most challenged (but not necessarily banned) books of 2007:

   1. And Tango Makes Three, by Justin Richardson/Peter Parnell
      Reasons: Anti-Ethnic, Sexism, Homosexuality, Anti-Family, Religious Viewpoint, Unsuited to Age Group
   2. The Chocolate War, by Robert Cormier
      Reasons: Sexually Explicit, Offensive Language, Violence
   3. Olive's Ocean, by Kevin Henkes
      Reasons: Sexually Explicit and Offensive Language
   4. The Golden Compass, by Philip Pullman
      Reasons: Religious Viewpoint
   5. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, by Mark Twain
      Reasons: Racism
   6. The Color Purple, by Alice Walker
      Reasons: Homosexuality, Sexually Explicit, Offensive Language,
   7. TTYL, by Lauren Myracle
      Reasons: Sexually Explicit, Offensive Language, Unsuited to Age Group
   8. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, by Maya Angelou
      Reasons: Sexually Explicit
   9. It's Perfectly Normal, by Robie Harris
      Reasons: Sex Education, Sexually Explicit
10. The Perks of Being A Wallflower, by Stephen Chbosky
      Reasons: Homosexuality, Sexually Explicit, Offensive Language, Unsuited to Age Group

Note, please, that some of these books have been around for a while....

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 09:38 PM

They don't seem to have very good reasons!

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:17 PM

Gee, no one ever asked me for my list of books that need to be banned! It's rather hard on TV political pundits.

On Rapaire's list is a book by Maya Angelou, who read one of her poems at the inaugural celebration.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 10:23 AM

I recently covered the matter of Prima Nocta in my university and the issue isn't whether it existed but, in the context of this thread, that it happened all over europe so wasn't a peculiarly scottish affliction.

Apart from that, I whole heartedly oppose any form of censorship.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: bubblyrat
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:43 PM

Me too !! I had to wait,in a state of extreme frustration (sexual and otherwise) for "Lady Chatterley's Lover" to be legally available ,in the early 1960s. When this finally happened, I just could NOT see what all the fuss had been about !! It was a major anti-climax ( if you'll forgive the expression )----J P Donleavy's "The Ginger Man" was a MUCH better read !! F**k censorship, that's what I (expletive deleted ) -ing say !!

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 02:52 PM

I was reading an interview with John Mortimer, the writer and lawyer, who died the other day. He was the defence counsel for Penguin Books in the Lady Chatterley case.

He said that, though of course he had to go on in court about what great literature it was, in fact he didn't think much of the book then or now. Not that it should have been banned, just that he didn't think it was too worth reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Uncle Tom's Cabin
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 03:54 PM

Complaints about books can be turned into a positive act for the library. For instance, a mother came in and complained about "And Tango Makes Three" -- that her 6 year old daughter took it out and it really wasn't something the mother felt like her daughter was ready to handle.

Soooooooo...Mom can to see me. I brought in the Children's Librarian, and we let the mother talk it out. Mom didn't want the book banned (gay penguins are really quite rare in Idaho) and she felt that the book was touching and well-written, but...maybe....

So, I cooked up a scheme. I asked if the mom could or would use the book as a "family discussion point" and she said, Oh My, Yes!

We now have a new collection of books for "Family Discussion." "Tango" is just one -- it includes books on bullying, manners, sex, new babies, job loss, divorce, "what's happening to my body?", military deployment, death and other topics that kids are exposed to and could have a hard time dealing with.

We scored BIG POINTS with the community on this one!

It's probably the most popular book collection we have.