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BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed
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Subject: Obit: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:01 PM Well, I reckon I been overdue 'cause I been going balls to wall, drenking too much coffee and beer and eatin' spicey stuff and all that so the last few weeks I've had this naggin' little pain in or around my tummy... I thought it was IBS, whcih I had a few years back and it might be but it's kinda different... I think it's an ulcer... Problem is that I'm trying to get new health insurance and I'm kinda in this intro period and I really don't need no doctor to turn stool-pigeon on me right now 'er I'll end up with no insurance at all or insurnace that I can't possibly afford so... I have quit the coffee and the beer and spicey stuff... What else should I be eating that won't mess with the ulcer while it heals up??? How about a couple glasses of wine at night instead of my usual 6 ot 8 beers??? Oh, I'm also taking aleo vera twice a day... Any other dietary advice 'er advice on home treatment for ulcers??? Thanks, Bobert |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:02 PM Now, gol danged it... I know this was supposed to be in the BS section and not obit... grrrrr... Someone trying to kill off my threads... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Jeri Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:13 PM See a doctor. Most ulcers are caused by bacteria, so antibiotics might be needed. Food and drink can inflame your stomach but usually don't cause the ulcer. It might NOT be an ulcer. See a doctor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:40 PM I can't right now, Jeri... I'll possibly lose the health insurance I have just gotten or have them jack up the premiums so that I can't afford it... Anyone know any doctors who will treat ya' without turning yer butt in and not run a million tests where you are ceratin to get turned in??? I'm in a pickle... Best thing I can do for now is ride with the thing but try not to eat or drink anything that will bother it more... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:54 PM Jeri is right. Most ulcers are caused by an infection with a particular bacteria, Helicobacter pylori. The best treatments are certain combinations of antibiotics with an acid-suppressor (such as omeprazole) and, often, Pepto-Bismol. Depending on the particular combination chosen, the cost can vary from very expensive to fairly cheap. Most people do well with the cheap combinations but sometimes the more expensive combinations are tolerated more easily. In the meantime, cut out whatever is irritating your stomach (caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, and very acidic foods are common culprits) and use over-the-counter acid suppression. OTC Prilosec and Zantac would be one way to do it. Just follow the package instructions. This will NOT kill the bacteria, but it may reduce your pain. Hope this helps, Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Alice Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:55 PM READ THIS H. pylori and Peptic Ulcer |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:58 PM Bobert, We cross-posted. If you don't want to be "turned in", just don't bill your insurance. If you don't, the doctor CAN'T "turn you in". First, it would be illegal. Second, the doctor would have no motive. Third, the doctor wouldn't even know you had insurance. Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: CarolC Date: 06 Aug 09 - 09:06 PM Goldenseal root in liquid or powder form will kill bacteria. I recommend that if going to a doctor isn't possible. Most health food stores have it and it can probably be found in the health supplements sections of many grocery and drug stores. It needs to be taken with food or it will irritate the stomach and cause nausea. It would also be good to take some form of friendly bacteria like yogurt or acidophilus supplements to replace the friendly bacteria in the gut after the goldenseal kills it off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Skivee Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:11 PM Bobert. The anti- H. Pylorii pills are effective, pretty cheap (relatively). about a month later-no ulcer in 90% of cases. Chat with your doctor. If you let it go, it will be more expensive and dangerous in the long-run. This assumes that Dr. Bobert has correctly diagnosed his condition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Jeri Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:23 PM Skivee, that's exactly what I'm worried about. He could have an alien larva in his stomach and if he doesn't get it treated... well, we've all seen THAT move, haven't we? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Georgiansilver Date: 07 Aug 09 - 03:51 AM Not sure about where you are but in the UK we can get drugs from the Pharmacist/Chemist for this sort of problem..... if you can do that then consult the pharmacist and he will offer something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: open mike Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:07 AM also you might do some stress reduction exercises.. breathing, yoga, and perhaps liquids to keep stomach contents diluted... Ulcers, stomach cancer, stomach infections, IBS, and thyroid disease can ... Acid Reflux...all may present with indigestion http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?Id=3357 be very cautious if you see blood (or coffee ground like substance in your stool--which indicated digested blood...therefore bleeding in the upper Gastro intestinal tract...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: John MacKenzie Date: 07 Aug 09 - 05:09 AM Take Gaviscon when you have pain, and see if that gets rid of it. Steer away from, reheated meat, cooked cheese, most lager type beers. In fact all alcoholl will irritate an ulcer if that's what you have. Keep away from all highly spiced food, give it about 3 weeks max, and if it hasn't settled, get thee to a quack. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: jacqui.c Date: 07 Aug 09 - 05:24 AM Go see your doctor, even if you have to pay the cost yourself. My ex-husband ignored stomach pains for a long time and died of stomach cancer. Proper diagnosis is essential early on, whether it be something as simple as chronic indigestion, or something more serious. A simple blood test can tell whether it is an ulcer and then antibiotics will treat it - this I know from personal experience. It just isn't worth taking risks with your health if it can be avoided. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Backwoodsman Date: 07 Aug 09 - 05:53 AM What jacqui said, absolutely. Ignore well-meant 'try this, try that' advice - GO TO YER FRIGGIN' DOCTOR, THAT'S WHAT HE/SHE'S THERE FOR! And yes, I am shouting. You say you can't afford the possible insurance hike, but you can't afford any-damn-thing when you're dead - FACT! Good luck Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: bobad Date: 07 Aug 09 - 06:07 AM I will second what Jacqui and the Backwoodsman said and besides, according to what Dr. Kent Davis said, there is no risk if you pay the doc cash, so it's a no brainer........right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: GUEST,Dani Date: 07 Aug 09 - 07:23 AM I sincerely want you to see a doctor, my friend. BUT, as someone who knows what it's like struggle to get, then keep good insurance, I'm asking the rest of you to LISTEN TO WHAT THE MAN IS SAYING!! ANY dr. wants your records in order to treat you, keeps your records, must report your records. When you apply for insurance, you basically give everyone permission to tell anything about you. If he is SEEN, let alone treated for this, it is a pre-existing condition, and may not be covered by his new insurance. Bobert, if you DO find a dr. who will take cash and not report things, AND whom you feel safe with, please pass on the info : ) I don't get on my soapbox very often here, but: Pay attention, People! This is part of what our President and Congress are trying to fix right now, and it affects SO MANY PEOPLE in so many scary ways. Clearly there are people right here in our little community who just don't get it. That's why it is so hard to fix it right! Dani (stepping down now) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 07 Aug 09 - 07:26 AM Thank you, Dani... That's my situation and right now I am hanging on to my new policy by a thread... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: freda underhill Date: 07 Aug 09 - 07:29 AM Slippery elm, or, if nothing else is working... don't worry.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Backwoodsman Date: 07 Aug 09 - 07:59 AM "Clearly there are people right here in our little community who just don't get it." Dani, there are people right here in our little community who "get it" that insurance is useless and a complete waste of money if you don't use it when you need it. Thank God I live in a country where health-care is based on need, not on the ability to pay, and it's free to see the doctor. I'd hate to be scared I was really sick but even more scared I couldn't afford to see the quack. Bobert - despite what Dani thinks, I "get it" alright, but I also "get it" that you only have one life, and ulcers don't cure themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Alice Date: 07 Aug 09 - 09:54 AM Almost every American who isn't wealthy worries eventually about the fact that when they are sick or injured or need dental care or eye care they can't afford to get it. It's the story of my life. Even with paying for health insurance through my employer now, I don't have full dental care or any eye care and would have to first pay $1000/year out of my pocket before any coverage kicks in to see the doctor. Until you can see a doctor, Bobert, I second the suggestion of slippery elm. "While slippery elm helps to ease pain and irritation in the stomach, intestines, kidneys and the urinary tract, it is also useful in treating problems related to the reproductive as well as the respiratory system. If one uses the powder of slippery elm's inner bark, it can produce a superb comforting effect on the mucous membranes covering all over the body. In addition, the inner bark of slippery elm is of high medicinal value to treat gastritis, sourness, peptic ulcers, colitis as well as enteritis. The herb also has properties of alleviating cystitis, inflammatory bladder, nasal and bronchial catarrh as well as providing relief from an irksome cough." slippery elm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: CarolC Date: 07 Aug 09 - 10:06 AM If he sees a doctor now, during the intro period, if it turns out he has something serious like stomach cancer, his new insurance won't pay for whatever care he needs and he's f*cked anyway. That's what people don't get. What good is it getting a diagnosis of something serious if he can't get his insurance to pay for the treatments? Answer: not much. If he waits until the intro period is over and then goes to see a doctor, then, whatever he or she finds will be covered under his insurance. How long until the intro period is over? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 07 Aug 09 - 12:22 PM Until you can see a doctor go to the drugstore and get Famatodine (generic name for Pepcid AC) 20Mg which is the maximum strength dose. It just came off perscription last year and is now available over the counter. Take one 40 minutes before each meal. You can also take it when you have a serious attack but do not exceed 6 tablets a day without advice from a physician. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Backwoodsman Date: 07 Aug 09 - 02:14 PM Carol, cancer doesn't understand about insurance cover and intro periods. It just goes right ahead and kills you, unless you get early diagnosis and treatment. But God willing, this thing of Bobert's won't be so serious. I've had heated discussions about the relative merits of our two systems with American colleagues who all claim that, where health-care's concerned, The Amurrican Way is best. I'm so glad I didn't have to worry about lack of funds and insurance intro periods when I needed over two years of fairly constant treatment. Many consultations, numerous scans, thousands of pills, seven or eight hospital stays, two lots of major open abdominal surgery - they did the work, first class service, didn't cost me, or my private health insurance provider, a bean. You people need a decent universal Health Service. Let's hope Obama comes up with the goods. Good wishes Bobert, I'm rooting for a good outcome for you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Aug 09 - 02:46 PM A few years ago I was very pale and seatry one day, and felt terrible - and it turened out I had a stomach ulcer merrily bleeding away. Fortunately I had the NHS to swing into action promptly, and a course of Zantac and a break from work cleared me up - and antibiotics and so forth to get rid of the Helicobactor Pylori which was the source of tey trouble. The thing is though I didn't have any pain at all, even though the ulcer had quietly got to a sate which was in fact life-thretening. It sounds to me as if Bobert needs to get proper tersts and proper advice and appropriate medical treatment, if those tests inducate its necessary. The insurance trap is a killer - literally so in some cases, and you don't want to be one of those, Bobert. Aren't there any guerrilla barefoot doctors around who can help out? Or even some greedy bastard who would be ready to break the rules for off the record payment? After all, it might well be that in fact there's nothing serious going on that a few pills you could buy over the counter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Alice Date: 07 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM Bobert, maybe you need to be a tourist in another country where you can go in to a doctor for an exam. (Sadly) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: CarolC Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:06 PM Cancer may not understand about insurance, but hospitals and doctors don't seem to care whether or not cancer understands about insurance. They don't provide care to people who can't pay for it. That's why about 18,000 people in the US die each year for lack of health care coverage. He has a much better chance of getting the care he needs, if he does have something serious, if he waits until his trial period is over to get a diagnosis than he does if he gets one now. If his insurance company finds out about a diagnosis that happened before the end of the trial period, they won't pay for his care, and the cancer wins anyway. If he waits until after the trial period, then he has a fighting chance of getting his insurance company to pay for it, although that's hardly certain. JtS and I are without access to insurance because of pre-existing conditions, so I live with this reality every day. I definitely am hoping that Obama's health care proposals succeed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: CarolC Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:09 PM I should have phrased my last post a little better. Of course, it's probably not cancer, but whatever he's got, if it needs treatment, he's out of luck if he gets a diagnosis for it during the trial period. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Backwoodsman Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:26 PM "If he waits until after the trial period, then he has a fighting chance of getting his insurance company to pay for it, although that's hardly certain." By which time it may be too late? Mmmmm! Another very good reason to tell your government to get their fingers out of their arses and provide universal health-care free at point of service. You have my sympathy, and I hope Obama gets it right and carries it through. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: CarolC Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:28 PM I'm working on it, but if one takes a look at the health care thread currently running, one can see what we're up against in this country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:34 PM Damn, my posts aren't going through. I agreed with CarolC's first post, and then complained that this is a classic case of what the insurance company HOPES will happen, that you'll pay for something you're afraid to use. It sucks, and is why we need government run insurance. Throw the insurance company bastards out. At least put in the public option so they have to compete fairly and can't cherry pick only healthy young people as customers, or people will switch. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM Even short of that it would be perfectly possible by government action to stop private insurers from taking pre-existing conditions into account. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Aug 09 - 05:42 PM If this came up after his application was accepted but before the end of their "grace period" (what the hell is that, anyway? So they can shake out any "post-pre-existing condition conditions?") then why is he paying for something he can't use? It's all so stupid. Always has been, and as long as the insurance companies get to call the shots, it always will be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 07 Aug 09 - 09:01 PM Well, screw it... I'm going to just roll the dice and make an appointment on Monday... The pain ain't going away... Now, I'm not too sure it's an ulcer and I realize that the doc is prolly gonna wanta do a little peekin' inside my innards but, hey, somethin' ain't perkin' like it's 'sposed to and, okay, maybe waiting might make things worse... I don't think the insurance co. will cancell me but they might see this as a pre-existin' condition meaning if it turns out to be somethin' serious there will be yet one more bankruptcy on the books if they don't cover me... Thanks everyone for the concern and the info but Doc Bobert needs another doc... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 07 Aug 09 - 09:03 PM Bobert and Dani, Prepare to be shouted at. This is important. If we ever go to a single payer system, you might possibly lose your right to medical privacy, but we have not gone there (yet). If you see a doctor UNDER OUR CURRENT SYSTEM, he CANNOT and WILL NOT "turn you in" to anyone unless you WANT him to bill your insurance. First, it would be illegal to release your records without your consent. Second, if you go to one of your local QuickCare/Immediacare/DocInABox places, the doctor won't even know who your carrier is, or even if you have a carrier. It's none of his business if you pay cash. Anyway, even if the doctor could "turn you in" (which he obviously CAN'T) a condition you developed AFTER you got insurance isn't PRE-EXISTING. (I'm assuming here you didn't have symptoms when the coverage started.) Get a diagnosis and proper treatment. You don't even need an appointment at many of those places and lots of them are open on weekends. Call ahead to find out how much the visit will probably cost. (They probably won't be able to give you a definite figure for the same reason your mechanic can't give you a definite figure before looking under the hood, but they should be able to tell you how much a straightforward visit will cost.) Ask for a discount if you pay cash at the time services are rendered. If you don't like the price, go elsewhere. There are LOTS of choices in your area. If the diagnosis turns out to be peptic ulcer, tell the doc you want a drug combination using antibiotics from one of the $4 plans (metronidazole and tetracycline, with Pepto-Bismol and omeprazole, for example, may be appropriate). Depending on the particular combination chosen and where you buy them, the total drug cost should be under $40, and possibly as low as $25. Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 07 Aug 09 - 09:04 PM Cross-posted again. I've got to learn to type faster. Sorry. Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: CarolC Date: 07 Aug 09 - 09:13 PM It's not the office visit that could break him. It's the tests. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 08 Aug 09 - 04:48 PM Yeah, the test will eat you alive... 20 months ago when I had the nerve damage from the lousy massage theapist I had to have two MRI's... We just made the last payment this month on them @ $100 a month... The doctor's visit wasn't cheap either but a bargain compared to the MRI's... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 08 Aug 09 - 09:55 PM You may not need a test at all, depending on how "classic" your symptoms are for peptic ulcer, your risk of other illnesses, and your other health issues. There is nothing wrong with "empiric" treatment (treating without testing) PROVIDING that there is relatively little chance that a delayed diagnosis will be harmful. Bobert, I have no idea whether your particular symptoms are "classic" (straightforwardly suggesting peptic ulcer and nothing else) or not, nor do I have any idea what your risk is of other illnesses. If my daughter (who has no significant risk factors for other illnesses) had classic ulcer symptoms, I would treat her without testing. If she were well in 14 days, that would be the end of it. If my father, who has a high risk of esophageal cancer, had exactly the same symptoms, I would insist someone look down his esophagus with a scope. The point is this: if the doctor thinks you have peptic ulcer disease but suggests a test to be sure, ask, "What's the risk if you just treat me and see if it works?" and "If it were your brother, would you order the test or would you treat him first and see how it worked?" and "What's the least expensive way to get this test done?" It may be, for example, that all you need is a breath test for H.Pylori infection rather than a CT scan and upper endoscopy. And maybe not. Even if you do need expensive testing, shop around. There are BIG price differences from facility to facility. The prices are not secret; most people just don't bother to ask. There is no harm in asking questions. If you don't ask, the doctor may ASSUME you want an immediate definitive diagnosis no matter what the cost. (That, by the way, is the approach most of my patients take - but most of them have the taxpayers footing the bill). Hope you find this useful. Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Jeri Date: 08 Aug 09 - 10:07 PM When I was the beneficiary of socialized medicine (military health care system), my provider thought I might have an ulcer. He, with my full understanding, just gave me antibiotice, because if they worked, it meant I had an ulcer and if they didn't, THEN they could do the more expensive tests. Antibiotics, cheap; tests, not so much. They didn't work, and maybe less than an hour after I took them, I wound up having to gulp down a lovely lidocaine cocktail, but it turned out I had some serious reflux. It would have cost the government maybe a couple of bucks in pills if it HAD been an ulcer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 08 Aug 09 - 10:36 PM Hi, Bobert. Sorry to hear you are not doing well. In case you have to wait a few days, here's some advice from a health guide I bought at a local pharmacy. Date is 2003. Of course, the book says that if you think you have an ulcer, see a doctor. But UNTIL you get there, do the following: Avoid aspirin, iburprofen and other non-steroidal inflammatory drugs. Avoid milk, which can increase acid secretion Drink lots of water and other liquids Drink alcohol only in moderation Don't smoke. (No doubt you shouldn't chew, either.) Take antacids ======= Danger signs - go to ER vomiting blood vomiting something that looks like coffee grounds you feel faint, cold, clammy. or you actually faint. ulcer pain plus back pain black, bloody or dark red stools severe stomach pain I sure hope everthing turns out okay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:35 PM Just an update, friends... Saw the doc today and he's about 100% sure I ain't got no ulcer but he ain't too sure that I might not have colon cancer... Guess that's the good news, bad news thing... My mom had colon cancer back 30 years ago and just turned 90 so if that's what it is then that's what it is... Anyway, he wants me to get a CAT scan on my abdoman... Got some serious health insurance issues right now that need to get resolved before I can schedule it... Thank you, Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin for breathing life into the insurance companies obstructionist sails right about now... No, no thnak you all all... I meant to say fu*k you... But nevermind that... I'll try to get this resolved and we'll go from there... But, hey.... I ain't got no ulcer... Right??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: maeve Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:49 PM Thanks for the update, Bobert. You know you have friends and support here. Keep on taking care of business and let us know how we can lend a hand. maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Alice Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:02 PM Hang in there, Bobert. We're here for you. I've had 2 sisters with colon cancer and are cancer free decades after it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:08 PM Thanks, maeve an' Alice... Anyway, if it is colon cancer and I get it fixed maybe I can put some weight back on... Dropped from 180 to 161 since March of last year... Yeah, I know that I have been working very hard in some very brutal conditions but really, I would rather be 175 or so... But hey, I'm strong... Just thin... I'll keep everyone up on this little saga... Thanks all... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:22 PM Kent, you don't seem to get it. Or maybe you don't want to. When you apply for a medical insurance policy, the insurance company REQUIRES you to disclose all existing conditions AND to give access to your medical records. No consent, no insurance. So if you want insurance, you consent. Now the doctor is not being unethical when he discloses - he has the patient's consent. Bobert, it might be wise for you to emigrate to the UK, fast! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:29 PM I'll keep that in mind, Richard... Lemme see how this liyylr delimma turns out with the insurance company... Hey, if I just show up there can I get trested... Then come home??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 10 Aug 09 - 11:15 PM Perhaps I don't get it, Richard. Enlighten me. Bobert has indicated that he has already has insurance and therefore has already disclosed all conditions that existed up to the time he got the insurance. Conditions that develop LATER are not PRE-existing conditions. When you get insurance, you normally give consent to access your medical records FOR BILLING PURPOSES. If you are not having your insurance billed for a thing, then you don't give them access to your medical records for that thing. If Bobert signed some kind of agreement to tell his insurance company everything that develops AFTER the policy begins EVEN IF the company is not billed, then you are right. I've never seen or heard of such a thing, but it may exist. I am not an insurance agent. However, as a physician, I can tell you that, when a patient pays cash, we don't even know if he has insurance and, if he does, we do not, and cannot, track down an insurance company to give information to. If we were to do so, we would be breaking the law. So what is it that I don't get? Ignorantly yours, Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 10 Aug 09 - 11:24 PM Bobert, The usual test for colon cancer is a hemoccult test for blood in the stool and, if there is blood, a colonoscopy. A CAT scan is not usually done for this purpose. There may be some special reason to do a CAT scan, of course. But please ask the doctor specifically why it is being done. I would hate for you to get it done and then find out that you still needed a colonoscopy anyway. Keep us informed. I'll be praying for you. PM me if you have anything general you want to ask me. (Of course, I couldn't answer specific questions because I haven't examined you, but I'll be glad to help if I can.) Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:27 AM Kent, maybe you should read a medical insurance policy sometime. There will be a clause permitting the company access to your medical records at any time. There will also be one requiring the claimant to submit to examination by the company's nominated physician. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: jacqui.c Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:18 AM Richard - there may be differences between the UK and USA systems here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: jacqui.c Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:21 AM Bobert - I'm glad that you got to the doctor. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts my friend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: SharonA Date: 11 Aug 09 - 05:13 AM Bobe-ster: Just out of curiosity, how can the doctor be so sure you don't have an ulcer upon your first visit to him, without having done an upper GI series (barium x-ray), an endoscopy or a colonoscopy? What is he basing such a quick diagnosis on? I googled CAT scans and skimmed an article or two, and contrary to what Kent said, a CAT scan is a low-risk, non-invasive way to look for tumors and infections in the multiple organs in the abdomen (liver, gallbladder, pancreas, spleen, aorta and kidneys, in addition to the GI tract). Sounds like the doc wants to see if there's an obvious anomaly that he should be targeting before he starts poking around randomly in your innards. Good luck! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:51 AM Yeah, thanks all... The situation with the insurance is very murky, indeed... Yeah, I enrolled on Jun 1st which was 5 weeks before the first minor symptoms occured and was graded at a "Level 3" out of 4 levels... The reason I was graded so risky is because I was too truthfull on my application and even mentioned that I "thought" i might have some arthritis in my thumb because after playing hear Mississippi Delta style blues for 3 hours I would have pain... There was never any real diagnosis for it but, heck, they asked all these questions that started with "Have you ever..." so I was trying to be as honest as possible.... I have since been told to say nothin'... Wisj I had known that lieing is part of getting health insurance at the time I completed the application... lol (not really)... So I appealed the decision and got a letter from my doctor saying that I had never been officially diagnosed with arthritis and I am now in the appeals process... The rub is that we aren't sure if the insurance company can downgrade me to a level "4" as a result of my appeal??? I have my insurance lady working on that today... I know that logically one would think that the worst case scenerio would be that they could only keep me at a level "3" but when you're dealing with this crooks you can throw logic out the window... My insurance lady read her rules book every which way yesterday and it can be looked at both ways... The rules say that new information may be used in the review of the appeal... Now if the insurance company decideds to downgrade me based on stuff that occured "after" the initial application then this ol' hillbily is goina be a world of financial hurt and really can't see how I could pay for a level "4" premium with what little actual income I have... The worst part about this is that on paper the P-Vine and I are worth over a million dollars... But that's all on paper... We really don't have any income that would reflect our holdings and or holding are not readilly liquidatable... I can see th headlines now, "Millionaire Can't Afford Health Insurance, Loose Farm"... That is really not all that funny... Meanwhile, I hope this get sorted out today... Thanks fir all yer support... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Alice Date: 11 Aug 09 - 09:53 AM Loose farm? Everything is loose on your farm? Ah, you meant "lose". Don't lose the farm, Bobert! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Ebbie Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:07 AM {{{{{{Beaubear}}}}}}} |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:27 AM Sorry Sharon but I gotta' go with the Kent the Doc. If Boboertz' Doc is requesting a CAT than he's wanting some general look-see as a CAT scan is waaaaaay down the list if used at all for colorectal cancer. Kent's right and cheaper. The CAT doc may be jumping ahead as a Virtual Colonoscopy is relatively new but useful. It will probably still nee to be followed by a colonoscopy and biopsy. If you ask me, and I don't know jack shit, but I'd say Bobertz is heading for a more expensive way to go. The FOBT is cheap and they even have home kits! * Fecal occult blood test (FOBT) * Flexible sigmoidoscopy * Colonoscopy * Polypectomy - removal of a polyp for pathology testing * Double contrast barium enema (DCBE) * Digital rectal exam * Virtual colonoscopy - the use of CT or MRI scans of the colon. * Biopsy * Pathology tests |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:31 AM Geeziz....I reely hsve too startt pruufreeding mor sPaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:34 PM Well, I had blood test and the doc had his way with me in the "drop trousers" kinda way and took a sample of, ahhhhhh, you know.... And his office called today and said they were normal... I donno... I had almost no pain all today.... I do have a little now but I went most of the day without any... The hospital wants $3900 to do the Cat scan but I talked with them and they are willing to make a deal!!! They say that they will take the amount that the insurance will pay and deduct 25% of that amount if I pay them up front... Hmmmmmm??? Right now I don't want the insurance company doin' too much sniffin' 'round... I'd like to get the appeal thing over and be reclassified as a Level 2 as of the date I enrolled and then hit 'um with the bad news (for them, that is...) I'm gonna follow Spawzer's advice and call the doc and tell him that I went all day without any pain and ask him, based on the negative Poo-test and negative blood work if maybe there's a cheaper way to go that ain't gonna freek out the insurance company... You know, like, "Well, Boberdz, it's time for yer "routine" colon check up, ain't it"... I donno... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: maeve Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:37 PM That's good thinking, Bobert. maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:49 PM SharonA, As catspaw indicated, CT scans are not the best choice if colon cancer is strongly suspected. With a colonoscopy, you can remove polyps. You can take biopsies. You can't do that with a CT scan. If a person does get a CT scan and a tumor is seen, you may need to have a colonoscopy anyway, to get a biopsy. I am NOT saying that a colonoscopy IS the way to go. That would depend on a lot of things that (I hope) Bobert told his doctor, such as: 1) whether or not his IBS was DEFINITELY diagnosed as IBS 2) when he last had a colonoscopy 3) where the pain is 4) what makes it worse and what makes it better 5) what runs in his family 6) what surgeries has he had already 7) etc., etc. I did not say a CT scan was the wrong way to go. I said he should question it, not that he should refuse it. Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:53 PM Cross-posted once again. Excellent news, Bobert! A negative hemoccult test is no proof of anything, but it is reassuring. God bless you! Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:14 PM A colonoscopy is the gold standard when it comes to diagnosing cancer, assuming that the cancer is in the Colon. A CAT scan will look at the other organs such as the Pancreas and Liver as well. In our area a Colonoscopy is done as an out patient procedure in the office of a GI specialist with a board certified anesthesiologist in attendance and the cost is only $1,500. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: jacqui.c Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:04 AM That's good news darlin'. I'm checking this thread daily - thanks for the updates. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 12 Aug 09 - 08:20 AM Well, I had a painless day yesterday... First one in a month... Seein' that the hospital, in spite of it's wheeling-'n-dealin' will still want $2500 for the CT scan, I think I'm gonna just take a wait-'n-see approach... Who knows??? Maybe it ain't nuthin'.... Off to work... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: SINSULL Date: 13 Aug 09 - 08:25 AM Bobert, Has anyone suggested colitis as a possibility? Kendall is an expert on the subject. A painless day may signal the end of a bout of it. Diet and stress are the culprits. How come I never get ahything that makes me lose weight? Even my overactive thyroid didn't cost me a pound. Keep us posted. And get better soon. "Holding your colon in the light" is no easy task. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 13 Aug 09 - 08:37 AM Well, seems like it's one day on andone day off... Had pain last night but in a differnt area of the tummy??? I think I'll report that to the doc... That may change his mind about needing a CT scan... As fir weight, Sins??? I donno... When I was 40 I was 6'1", ate everything I wanted and weighed about 150... Then when I was 50 I balloned (lol) to like 185... Now I'm 161... I'm gonna try to gain a few pounds somehow but really don't know how... I don't want to be a skinny hillbilly witgh a big tummy... That would look stupid... I donno... Meanwhile, my appeal with the health insurance company is moving along and hopefully get resolved real soon so I can turn around and hit them between the eyes... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: SINSULL Date: 13 Aug 09 - 09:38 PM Sounds more and more like colitis. Much more treatable than colon cancer or ulcers. It's not gas, is it? That hillbilly crap you eat... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: kendall Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:26 AM Get your ass to a Doctor! Better poor than dead you hillbilly! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: GUEST,Dani Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:56 AM Kent, you don't say where you are. If U.S. have you recently applied yourself for health insurance or disability insurance? Over the past few years I've done both, a couple times. In my field it is almost unheard-of to have company-sponsored coverage, so I finally got an individual plan. For both that, and the DI, I've signed forms 8 ways to Sunday that give everyone and their brother access to my medical records. IN those records, is everything I've ever seen a dr. for, right? Even if I paid for it myself? And believe me, there's plenty I haven't been seen for because I feared what might happen down the line to break me and bring down my family's financial house of cards. When you become a patient @ a dr.s office, you also sign similar forms, don't you? It's part of what the nuns used to call your PERMANENT RECORD. In hushed tones. I didn't give a (#&@ then, but I do know. I recently had a few biopsies myself (all clear, my friends). Do you really believe that if I'd paid for them myself, the next insurance application I filled out wouldn't ask? And whatever carte blanche I had to sign wouldn't give them access? And they would cover whatever cancer might show up in the future?! Dani |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:12 AM Don't forget that all yer records can be turned over to the Department of Homeland Security... Yeah, Capt'n, I'm trying... I've been to the doc... He says to get a CT scan... That ain't all that easy unless, of course, I hit the lottery... I am curently appealing the "level" at which my new health insurers has graded me... During the appeal process they *may* have the right to regrade me at a riskier category and the premiums would be unaffordable unless I seel my farm and use the money to pay the premiums... Seeling the farm would be a lenghty process and considering the market I would probably lose a ton of money... So I'm kinda hopin' that this appeal gets settled in the next day or two and then I can get the CT scheduled... Kinda in a Catch 22 right now... Yeah, I have spoken with the folks at the hospiatl but can't seem to get any plan worked out with them on payment... This sucks!!! B~ p.s. What's colitis, Sins??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: SINSULL Date: 14 Aug 09 - 11:22 AM Little pockets develop in your colon over time. If something gets caught in one it festers and causes infection and excruciating cramps and pain.I GOOGLED the following: Signs and symptoms General signs and symptoms of colitis include intense pain, tenderness in the abdomen, depression, rapid weight loss, aches and pains within the joints, fatigue, changes in bowel habits (increased frequency), fever; swelling of the colon tissue, erythema (redness) of the surface of the colon, ulcers on the colon (in ulcerative colitis) which can bleed, mucus in the stool, blood in stool and rectal bleeding. Diarrhea may present itself, although some forms of colitis are constipation so the stool and bowel movements can appear normal. Other symptoms may include: gas, bloating, indigestion, heartburn, reflux, Gastro oesophageal reflux disease (GORD or GERD when using the alternative spelling esophageal), cramps, urgency and many other uncomfortable aches in the gastrointestinal system. Common tests which reveal these signs include X-rays of the colon, testing the stool for blood and pus, sigmoidoscopy, and colonoscopy. Additional tests include stool cultures and blood tests, including blood chemistry tests. A high erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR) is one typical finding in acute exacerbations of colitis. Sounds familiar, no? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Aug 09 - 02:30 PM Bobertz.......I'm not a doc obviously but this CAT bit makes no sense unless you're telling him something else. Ulcers, ulcerative colitis, diverticular disease, are all possibilities as is cancer. In any case, there are many other tests to be run that will show up these problems. Personally, I have all of the above except cancer and was hospitalized 3 weeks for bleeding ulcers (3) back in 2005. Try a different doc. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:29 PM Well, gol danged... That colitis sounds like what I been going thru... Yeah, loss of weight... 180 to 161... Irregularity... Pain in the gut... Depression??? Okay, maybe a little... Fatigue??? Yeah... I gotta take a half an hour nap after lunch every day to get thru the afternoon... Maybe I'll talk with doc before spending gobs of money on a CT scan which, BTW, is like $3900 (list price) but if I pay up front its more like $2500... Still alot of dough no matter how you count it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:54 PM Bobert, You are, I hope, repeating the fecal occult blood (hemooccult) test at home, aren't you? Although a single negative test is re-assuring, I always had my family practice patients do a series of three. If your doctor hasn't given them to you already, you might ask for hemoccult cards to do at home. You don't have to take the sample digitally, you know. Sinsull's information applies particularly to diverticulitis, an infection of one of those little pockets she mentions. As she also says, there are other conditions that have similar symptoms. Here is some info. on diverticulitis from a well-respected source: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/173388-treatment Dani, I'm in Ohio. You are correct that BEFORE you get insurance you are obligated to reveal any PRE-EXISTING condition. Unless I am severly misunderstanding something, Bobert already HAS insurance. Conditions that do not exist until AFTER one obtains insurance are not PRE-existing conditions. There is no general law or rule that requires a patient or a doctor to turn over information to an insurance company. There is a requirement that information be turned over IF the insurance company is paying the bill. If the insurance company is NOT paying the bill there is, in general, no reason to inform them of anything. In fact, it is ILLEGAL to inform them without the patient's permission and it is IMPOSSIBLE to inform them if the doctor doesn't know the patient's provider - and the doctor won't know unless the patient provides that information. It is, of course, possible that Bobert signed some type of agreement to tell the insurance company everything. I haven't seen his particular contract. My point is that, unless he AGREED to tell them everything, he doesn't NEED to tell them everything. If a patient pays cash, I certainly don't call his insurance provider, even if I know it. I have never seen or heard of any doctor requiring patients to agree that medical information can be released to an insurance company that is not paying the bill. I can't imagine what the purpose of such an agreement would be. One of the reasons doctors offer cash discounts is because, if the patient pays cash, we DON'T have to fool with the insurance company. Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:35 PM I'll also check into that home kit, Kent... Might of fact, before I spend $2200 on a CT scan I'm gonna have another talk with the doctor and see if maybe there's something less expecnsive to diagnos what I have... I'll read up on that diverticulitis stuff... I heard of it but never knew what it was about other than folks don't like if much... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: GUEST,Dani Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:44 PM So, Kent, if the insurance company is paying a bill for something, or deciding whether to cover me, do they, or do they not have the right to access my medical records in general? These questions are from a form I was asked to fill out this week: "Have you or any Proposed Insured been diagnosed or treated for any of the following within the past 5 years:" (what follows is a loooong list. Then: "Other than the above, have you or any Proposed Insured, within the past 5 years: a. Had an electrocardiogram; x-ray; or other special test?(not including HIV tests) b. Been consulted; treated; or examined by any physician or practitioner for any reason not previously mentioned? c. Been operated on, or advised to have any operation? d. Had a physical check-up? e. Been postponed; rated up or declined for Life; Hospitalization; Major Medical; or Accident and Sickness Insurance? f. Made claim for or received benefits or pension due to any injury or illness?" And, oh yeah, "4.Name, address and phone number of primary care physician:_________________________________________" BTW, I am glad for your input here as a physician, and please disregard anything in my antagonistic tone. It's certainly not aimed at you : ) Dani |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Kent Davis Date: 15 Aug 09 - 12:53 AM Dani, Yes, if you are applying for insurance, you need to reveal any pre-existing conditions. Also, if you expect the company to pay a bill, they do have access to any medical information relevant to that bill. If a person who has insurance chooses not to turn in an expense, there is no need to tell the insurance company. An individual contract might set such a requirement but, unless the contract so specifies, there is no general requirement to tell. If I back my car into a tree, I don't have to tell my car insurance company about it. Depending on the cost of the repair, the amount of cash I have on hand, and the chances that turning in the repair bill would substantially increase my premium, I might decide to turn it in, or I might decide not to turn it in and just pay the repair bill myself. This is no different. Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: GUEST,Dani Date: 15 Aug 09 - 09:05 AM I think you're missing the point! You said if a person expects "the company to pay a bill, they do have access to any medical information relevant to that bill". Of course they should. But the papers you sign give them access to ALL your medical information, NOT just what's relevant to the bill! It's like getting in trouble with law, I figure. You can't hide your record! And it's all taken into account. Dani |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 15 Aug 09 - 09:46 AM Ya' know the strange thing is that I have had Anthem Blue Croos/Blue Shield going back, oh, about 15 years and they don't even keep up with stuff that was billed out to them... You'd think if they were all that concerned with yer history then they'd keep better records themselves... I donno??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: DougR Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:57 PM You might try staying away from the Mudcat for a spell. You do sort of get worked up from time to time and some folks say that's not good for people who have ulcers. :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 28 Aug 09 - 12:24 PM Well, folks... Dougie might me right... Ahhhh, make that correct... Had a colonoscopy yesterday and all was fine... Also did a CT scan which hasn't been read yet bu the GI doc told my wife that he thinks it's gonna come back negative... Well have to wait a couple days on that... So, if all this comes out negative that rules out a loot stuff except the dreaded IBS (irrital Bowel Syndrome) meanin' that Dougie and his buds are the cause of my abdominal pain!!! Thanks alot, Dougie... But seriously, we'll wait the CT scan results before puttin' a final diagnosis on this stuff... So that is the latest... I know from my PM's that several Mudders have been concerned about what's going on so this is an update... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: bobad Date: 28 Aug 09 - 01:04 PM Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) is often a default diagnosis when no other cause of one's symptoms can be found. Consider yourself lucky, it could have been something worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: jacqui.c Date: 28 Aug 09 - 01:23 PM What a relief! Thanks for updating Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 28 Aug 09 - 02:04 PM Well, ain't official as yet but I think that's we're it's gonna end up... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: CarolC Date: 28 Aug 09 - 02:09 PM If it's irritable bowel syndrome, I recommend seeing an acupuncturist who specializes in allergy elimination. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Bobert Date: 28 Aug 09 - 06:19 PM Well, thanks, Carol... Will keep that in mind over the next couple of weeks as I develope a plan... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: kendall Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:50 PM If it is IBS try dicyclomine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Backwoodsman Date: 29 Aug 09 - 03:15 AM Good news Bobert. Happy for ya! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Paul Burke Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:03 PM Look mate, all you ever needed was what we Englanders call a Notional Health Service- the kind of one that told me I had diverticulosis when I thought I had bowel cancer, for,like, free. Come and live here, there's a spare room since the girl went to college... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Think I gotta an ulcer.... Advice needed From: Ebbie Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:39 AM "Come and live here, there's a spare room since the girl went to college..." Paul Burke Don't tell me you went, Bobert. We need you here. |
