BS: US Health Care Reform

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 10:37 AM

""Do you think you REALLY are in a position (and this goes also for McGrath and other outside the U.S. critics of our system)to judge our system?""

The point is Dougie boy, that 47 million citizens of your supposed example of democracy at its best are not in a position to judge either, since they don't share the benefits of your privileged position.

That must be about twenty percent of your total population, which sort of corresponds to GfS's twenty nine percent who think it's crap.

So the "haves" are doing fine, and they are happy with the system which keeps the "have not's" in their place, well away from the "Haves'" dough.

I am afraid, that when I see the drivel spouted about proper, inclusive, national healthcare, it leads me to the conclusion that Gandhi was right....When asked what he thought of the US' civilisation, he replied "I think it would be a good idea".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 04:22 AM

Ok, screw the Cato Institute....I'd rather support a better bill that this bit of hustle that's being pushed off on us...wouldn't you agree?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 03:58 AM

I don't accept any figures coming from the Cato Institute, including the above referenced 6 trillion. They are just using propaganda of their own to scare people into abandoning any kind of health care reform at all. The Cato people have been pushing for privatization of Social Security for a long time. Had Social Security been privatized as they want, the results would have been a major tragedy for the elderly in this country. The Cato Institute cannot be trusted in any way. They have only one interest - to make the playing field even more biased in favor of the large corporations at the expense of the average people in this country and around the world. I do not accept the claim that the bills being considered by the Congress would cost 6 trillion dollars.

And while I don't think that the bills with the strongest chances of passing are anywhere near as good as what we need (single payer, not for profit), they are not anywhere near as bad as the propaganda being promoted by the Cato Institute and the rest of the corporatocracy would have us believe.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guset from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 03:27 AM

Carol, you are right in saying,"...that still doesn't eliminate the need for everyone to have health coverage."

But not at the cost of 6 trillion!..plus this bill is NOT about health care, as propagandized. If the government is going to come up with a bill for that(or anything), how about an honest one. This bill is NOT the one!!(As I've said over and over).

P.S. Sorry, I haven't gotten back to you on the cataract thing, yet, still awaiting word..but the question has been submitted, as per promised.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 02:52 AM

The Cato Institute is a think tank with a corporatist agenda. I don't trust anything they have to say about anything.

And as I said before, regardless of whether or not controlling the body's PH can do what is being claimed, that still doesn't eliminate the need for everyone to have health coverage. There are many health problems that would not be corrected through that method, even if it is valid.

Personally, though, on the subject of alternative methods, I think those should be covered by insurance also. At the very least, chiropractic and acupuncture should be.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 02:38 AM

Just came down from watching the tube, two interesting things:
Cato Institute reporting that the Dems are using 'quackery' to the public in their cost estimate of the health care bill. They(Cato) put the cost of it at six trillion dollars!! Look it up yourselves!
next, PBS is running a program titled, 'Eating'. Watch it! Repeatedly, they report that 'following the governments recommended dietary guidelines, is what made people, (and they name several high profile people, along with some stats) sick with cancers and heart diseases" They go onto enumerate which ones, and why. I hadn't seen this before I posted, my earlier post, to which L.H., added his.

And of course the stomach is acidic. Its suppose to be, to digest the food, but what is meant by being alkaline, is found when you have a blood test. What I posted before is absolutely true, and L.H. is also correct. Cancer does not survive or grow in an alkaline environment.

I have a brother, whose doctor just took him off of blood pressure meds, and cholesterol prescription, when he found that his blood test showed he had dramatically shown, after certain things my brother did to change his system from acidic to alkaline, within a month(!), had lowered both his cholesterol count and his blood pressure to well below the dangerous levels! He is now monitoring to see if what he is doing, will keep him off the meds. This I also got AFTER I posted my thread!

The thought that I or L.H. would deceive you on this knowingly, or otherwise, is absolutely ludicrous!..and again, who is accusing us, the usual gang of contentious boneheads!

Alice, How's your 'swine flu' coming?...feeling better????

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 01:24 AM

...and all of the opinion polls that I've seen indicate that the majority of the public supports a robust public option.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 01:23 AM

My early stage cataracts are already affecting my vision.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 11:58 PM

Well, I guess don't overreact to it, Don. I do find that when people believe anything very strongly...that is to say, when it becomes a core belief...that they are generally pretty much impervious to an opposing viewpoint, although if they are polite, then they will listen to it in a polite fashion.

This is just as true of me as it probably is of you or Alice.

For instance, nobody can convince me that all the reported UFO incidents are either hoaxes or errors in observation or our own secret military craft, etc...and that there are simply no aliens visiting us...because I have become absolutely certain by now that we do have some aliens visiting us from time to time.

This makes me totally unreceptive to people who deny categorically that there are (or could be) any aliens visiting us. But I will listen to them while they deny it. Then I'll shrug and go on my way, not changed one bit in my own opinion, because I'm sure of my opinion. And so are they! ;-)

I think we're all like that about some things, aren't we? I don't really expect to change anyone else's opinion if they're quite sure of it. But I will listen to it and let them have their say, and I expect you will too.

I'm quite sure about the alkaline/acidic dietary thing simply because some health practitioners I know and trust, do to my own direct experience with them, are themselves sure about it. I do not believe that those people are quacks. I know them personally, and I just don't believe it. There are definitely some quacks in the alternative health field...yes...and there are some quacks in conventional medicine too. And some of them don't KNOW they are quacks. One must judge them by one's own direct experience (or that of friends), because that is what separates the sheep from the goats.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 06:05 PM

< Snarl On >

"I doubt you'll be impressed by any of the info I find...(smile)...because your minds appear to be all made up on that score. But what the heck?"

Just a personal aside here, Little Hawk, but when you make comments like that, do you realize just how insulting that is? It's very off-putting and tends to make one feel like skipping your posts entirely.

This would be a pity, because from time to time you do have some good things to say.

< Snarl Off >

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:50 PM

Definitely, Alice. One of the oddities about the situation...and I've noticed this...is that most people, it seems, would far rather eat the stuff they usually do (fried food, deep-fried food, food loaded with salt or sugar, overcooked food, pizza, hamburgers, peameal bacon, etc) than eat some fresh fruits or vegetables instead.

As well as access to better food, there must also be a better effort made to educate the public about what to eat in order to be healthier.

When people are accustomed to eating processed food that is full of either salt or sugar or some other heavy spice, then they find the taste of fresh fruits and vegetables "too bland". It doesn't meet their accumstomed expectations.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Alice
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:37 PM

Yes, just the availability of fresh fruit and vegetables in many urban areas is a problem. People are living on processed foods from convenience stores and pizza and fried foods because real groceries are not available to them. If we could just help people have a healthy diet, that would improve our health care problems immensely.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:33 PM

I think there's some very good quality health care in the USA, Doug, and in Canada also, and in a good many other places. But why should people get bankrupted by the costs of that high quality medical care? That's what concerns me. It seems to me that it would be sensible if you had a public insurance program that covered all citizens (regardless of their medical condition). I am not suggesting that there's something wrong with the overall quality of your health care system, I'm talking about your lack of universal and inexpensive access to it through a publicly-funded health insurance program, such as exists in a good many other western democracies. This would not be any assault on the quality of your health care. It wouldn't change that at all. It would simply make it affordable for everyone.

Don and Alice - I'll look up some stuff on the acidic/alkaline diet possibilities when I get a bit of time here, and I'll post links. I doubt you'll be impressed by any of the info I find...(smile)...because your minds appear to be all made up on that score. But what the heck? I'll post the links anyway when I get some time to.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:06 PM

L.H.: A careful reading of my post should indicate that the subject of the post is quality, not cost.

Greg:I believe I was the first on the Mudcat to post that wee statement. Not absolutely sure, but I am pretty sure. I tell you this because your opinion of my intellect is so low, I think you would be reluctant to repeat something that I posted. Always thinking good thing about you Greg. Wouldn't want you to be embarrassed.

Carol: speak as one who has had cataracts removed from both eyes, I can assure you that early growth cataracts are nothing to be alarmed about. You'll probably be eligible for Social Security and Medicaid before they are large enough to affect your vision.

On the health care bill in the Senate, I don't know where you are getting your information about the popularity of the public option but every poll I am aware of reports that the majority of the population does NOT favor the public option. Likely that and federally funded abortions are what is likely to sink the whole bill.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:01 PM

Right, Alice. GfS is right about the quality of the American diet, but I've heard all that acid/alkaline stuff before and knew it was pure quackery. His/her thesis seems to be that if we all stop eating at Burger King and stay away from the Twinkies, health insurance will no longer be necessary.

My wife, who does most of the grocery shopping, is up on nutrition and very health conscious (we're almost vegetarians and she always asks me "Have you had your fruit today?"), and I'm fully aware of such issues myself. But what medical expenses I've had over the past several decades have had nothing to do with diet.

####

I've had chiropractic adjustments all my life (my father was a chiropractor). My current chiropractor's office is only a few blocks from where I live. He takes a long lunch hour and goes jogging. On his way back to his office, about once every two weeks (oftener if I need it) he stops by here and works me over. Massages the back muscles, adjusts the vertebrae. The 3rd lumbar vertebra at the apex of the curvature is the culprit that keeps slipping out—feels like I have a railroad spike in my back. When he finishes, I can just lay on the bed and relax, and let the adjustment set.

And except for a small co-pay, my insurance pays for that also.

House calls. How rare is that!??

I would sure as hell hate to be without health insurance, and I feel very sorry for those who don't have any. When other countries, nowhere as rich as ours, have health care systems that are as good as (and in many cases better than) ours, paid for by taxes (just like police and fire protection) or by a regulated insurance system that costs a fraction of what is deducted from my wife's paycheck, the United States is actually way behind a lot of "third world" countries.

But we do have some of the best politicians that money can buy!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Alice
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 04:19 PM

Quackery is promoted quite a bit on the internet.

Reality check about acid/alkaline theory of disease:
Click Here

"All foods that leave your stomach are acidic. Then they enter your intestines where secretions from your pancreas neutralize the stomach acids. So no matter what you eat, the food in the stomach is acidic and the food in the intestines is alkaline."

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 04:07 PM

Incredible what medical treatment costs, isn't it? I've got scoliosis too. I go to the chiropractor about once a month, and that helps keep things pretty much okay, and I've got some stretching exercises that help too...when I remember to do them.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 02:48 PM

In February of 2000, I took a bad fall in the bathroom and broke my left leg. Femur. It required an operation (I now have a titanium rod in my left thigh). The operation cost $14,000. I was in the hospital for three weeks. That, I understand, cost an additional $24,000. Fortunately, I had health insurance (my wife works at the Seattle Public Library and they have pretty good benefits).

I had polio when I was two years old, and it left me with a scoliosis (spinal curvature) which wasn't much of a problem until a few years ago. Last June, my lower back hurt so bad that I had to go to the emergency room (ruptured disk, perhaps?). CT and MRI scans, all kinds of tests. They still don't know and I'm due for further tests. In the meantime, they've got me on pain-killers (which I take only when absolutely necessary, because I don't want to get strung out). Once again, I'm covered by my wife's health insurance. $22,000+ so far.

Well, now! I am careful about what I eat and always have been. For my age, my heart, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc., are in very good shape, and apart from skeleto-muscular problems, my general health is excellent.

However, I certainly wish I had known that if I had been even more careful about my diet and paid more attention to my PH balance, none of these things that necessitated hospital visits would have happened.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM

Good stuff, GfS. You have seen past the tip of the iceberg (and that's all that the media and politicians ever tell us about).

Cancer cannot sustain itself in an alkaline or a well-oxygenated system. The appearance of cancer is a sign of a body that's already been stressed out to the point where the immune system is beginning to not be able to cope, and a body that is acidic from stress and bad diet, and is probably starved for oxygen as well, due to a number of factors (such as habitually shallow breathing that does not utilized the whole diaphram). Another cause of cancer is electromagnetic fields from various devices such as TVs, wireless devices, cellphones, microwaves, etc. We are awash nowadays in these electromagnetic fields because of all the technology we're using, and it does affect the body adversely over time. But the number one problem is: stress combined with bad diet.

Why are we only told about the tip of the iceberg? Well, because a lot of money is being made by food and drug marketing companies, and the medical fraternity in general, and they would very much like to maintain their present cash flow.

Some other common things that cause serious illness: antiperspirants, sunblock, sunglasses, anything that blocks up your body's natural cleansing systems (such as your sweat glands or your sinuses) or deprives you of natural sunlight.

The medical system generally gives you drugs to suppress a symptom. The symptom isn't the problem, it's a signpost that points toward a problem. The answer is not to treat the symptom, it's to address the underlying problem that is causing the symptom.

People, however, have been taught to be lazy and just find a quick fix to suppress their outer symptoms, while continuing to eat a bad diet and live a stressful and unhealthy lifestyle. They are encouraged to "have their cake and eat it too", then run to the doctor when a painful symptom appears, and the doctor attacks the symptom with drugs, surgery, radiation, and other such unhelpful assaults upon an already weakened body.

That's insane. It is not the way one really cures illness and restores good health.

There are some things doctors do very well. If I had a broken arm, I'd go straight to a doctor, yessir, because they know exactly how to help with that. It all depends what it is they're dealing with. But I will not go down their standard route of poison, cut, and burn to resolve my health problems.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 01:22 PM

You can't put saliva on a cataract. The cataract is inside the eye. Based on your trust of the people who would say something like that, I think I would be disinclined to trust any sources you have on the subject of health care.

And my point still stands. Even if> (and it's a big "if") that whole thing about the PH balances wasn't total bullshit, there are still too many problems that it couldn't correct to make access to health care not a necessity for everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:29 PM

Carol, I'm going to check for you..will be back with an answer. Until then, I've heard it said that the enzymes in your saliva, put on your cataract, can begin to dissolve them. So, there's sit in you eye!...I'll check further. (Got great resources!..and they love to help!)

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 11:08 AM

No, my Congressman is an idiot and knows nothing about health care whatever. I suspect that the answer to my last question is "no". The point is that even if incorrect PH levels could do everything that GfS says it can, it can't correct all health problems, so people will still need to have access to adequate health care.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 08:39 AM

You could ask your Congressman, he/she ought to be an expert on health care by now.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 02:48 AM

So will correcting my body's PH levels eliminate my early stage cataracts?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 02:20 AM

Osteoporosis and the dairy industry--what's the FDA NOT telling people?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 02:02 AM

That's all fine and dandy...but THIS 'health care' bill is not about health...its about control of more of the economy and you. If they were REALLY concerned about your health..I mean REALLY CONCERNED, they would educate you about foods. Remember the FDA, is FOOD and drug administration. First they screw you up with the foods, then hustle you drugs, for the ills you get from eating that shit! What you need to do, is get your body 'alkaline'. Viruses, NOR CANCER, can live or grow or propagate in an alkaline body. (Betcha' didn't know that.) Also being 'alkaline' causes your cholesterol count to normalize out, and you don't build plaque in your veins and arteries(amazing stuff, huh?). I know people, and more of them each week, who are CANCELING their 'health' insurances, except for emergency care, in case of accidents, by doing what it takes to turn their bodies from acidic to alkaline! YEAH!! For the baloney their shoveling at us about 'swine flu', 'health' care bills, vaccines, they could have supplied everyone with the means to get alkaline. Yes, dear ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, frogs and newts,...its not JUST the drug companies, insurances companies, and medical providers LOBBYING your 'representatives' to get this stupid thing passed....its the FOOD conglomerates, as well!!

I can tell you a lot more, but I'll wait, till some ears perk up, and some get off the 'political toilet' mentality. Listening to most of these clowns(politicians) is like the blind leading the blind. They don't know shit, other than how to bilk you out of your hard earned money, and to keep themselves in power, to do it more...and we just love it that way!!!!!...and argue about the most righteous way to commit national suicide!

But what do I know???...except the way out...and the first step is to stop cramming their shit into your ears...and into your minds!!

I mean, I don't eat shit, roll it around in my hands, stuff it into my nose, and certainly not cram it in my ears!! So why pay attention to most these assholes?? They are lying to us all, and we end up fighting amongst ourselves OVER THEIR LIES!!!!!! You've got to be kidding me!

Well before I go off, I'll just drop the 'alkaline' thing off to you, to chew on....just for starters. There are several ways to do it.

Anyway, stay well, be prosperous, and don't listen to bogus crusaders, who want your votes or money!
Warmest to You,
GfS

Winks at L.H.(yo-ho)

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 01:24 AM

It's all in the way the question is asked. When asked if the health care system in the US is good, most people will say yes, because most people have insurance. However, when asked if they want Congress to pass a health care reform bill that includes a public option, most people will say yes to that, because most people are aware that a public option will decrease health care costs, and because they are aware that there are almost fifty million people in the US who don't have access to health care, and they don't think that is a sustainable situation. They are also aware that while they may have insurance now, if they lose their job or get sick, they will lose their insurance. So while they may think they are getting good health care now, everyone with private insurance is at risk for losing it, and being denied coverage in the future. Thus it is in everyone's best interest to have comprehensive health care reform that includes a public option, and the majority of people know it.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:47 AM

Yeah. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:10 PM

GregF:"There ya go again, LH, confusing the man with facts."

Yeah, there's a lot of that going around. There's a vaccine for it though....the 'news' media!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 06:09 PM

There ya go again, LH, confusing the man with facts.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 05:44 PM

I know a simple fact, Doug, which is that in Canada my hospital treatment is done at no charge, because it's covered by national health insurance. That's the case for all Canadians, not just some of us.

I know that I pay less than $1,000 a year in income taxes to get that coverage. Match that.

I know that in Canada the patient and his or her physician decide on what treatment is to be done, because I have had any number of personal friends here who have confirmed that for me with their own stories of treatments they've undergone. This scaremongering about "a committee of "experts" overriding the wishes of a patient or the patient's personal physician is some snippet of something that Fox has dug up somewhere which they have blown way out of proportion. Many medical conditions in people are investigated by several practitioners (thus a committee) who are specialists in the field, before a decision is made as to what best to do...but the decision must be agreed to by the patient and the patient's personal doctor before it goes ahead. This happens not just in Canada, but also in the USA and in every other country in the world. There's nothing the least bit unusual about it, but your health insurance propagandists want to turn it into some kind of Orwellian scare story to get people to resist health reforms, that's all.


I also know that the largest number of personal bankruptcies per capita in the USA are now due to people being unable to meet their very high medical expenses, because I read it in your own news media from the USA a few days ago.

This is not the case in Canada.

I also know that you pay more already in income tax toward health care than I do...but I get full coverage for it, and you don't.

Nothing is provided for free, Doug, but our health care is provided at far less cost per capita than yours is, and it's universal. What your system really is, it's a huge subsidy to the drug companies and the health insurance providers, and Obama's helping them out by getting them more customers.

What I don't get is why you're not supporting him, because he's strengthening the corporate health insurance system you presently seem to believe in. ;-)

Here's some reading I suggest: Read a book by Kevin Trudeau about alternative health methods as opposed to mainstream medicine. If you persist in reading it, you'll probably be in a state of shock by the time you're done. I don't really have much faith in mainstream medicine, Doug, but I'm still glad we have universal health coverage in place in Canada, because at least it is there for the many people who do believe in conventional medicine, and it won't bankrupt them when they get sick.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 05:21 PM

L.H.: Now tell my friend, when did you last experience a serious illness and you were treated by some provider in the U.S. health care industry? Do you think you REALLY are in a position (and this goes also for McGrath and other outside the U.S. critics of our system)to judge our system?

I wouldn't for a moment criticize yours in Canada or in the British Isles because I have never experienced it and all I know about it I've read here on the Mudcat, or someone knowledgeable about your system being interviewed (probably on Fox News)or read about it in a newspaper. Based on those I have heard interviewed, your systems aren't nearly as great as most of you here on the Mudcat report. Long waits for procedures, some procedures not available at all unless in a emergency (and by that time it is often too late), health care decisions made not by patient and personal doctor, but rather by a committee of "experts."

Whatever comes of the legislation the Democrats are trying so hard to pass, our system will not be like yours. Health care services will not be provided "free." Well, neither is yours of course, you just don't pay for service at the point of service.

So before one begins to cast aspersions on those polled, who do not provide the answers YOU think appropriate, give some thought to the basis for your criticism. Also the validity.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 05:18 PM

BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!! SPLENDID!!!! AUTHOR!!! AUTHOR!!!!

(my reaction to all three of those videos....) Thanks, guys. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 05:02 PM

How is it discussing things with you, GfS? Well. . . .

Sorta like this.

But then, I try to take a somewhat larger view of things.

Don Firth

Now, back to our regular broadcast.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:30 PM

Don Firth:"If no one is going to talk about reforming the U. S. health care system, I see no point in hanging around."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D09DCZryG2U

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:26 PM

DougR - Rasmussen Reports, "Forty-nine percent (49%)of voters nationwide now rate the U.S. health care system as good or excellent. That marks a steady increase from 44% at the beginning of October, 35% in May and 29% a year-and-a-half ago.

Well, Doug, that's sad! It indicates two things.

1. 49% of the American public is simply so blissfully ignorant of better health systems in many countries outside of the USA that they don't know what they're missing and probably never will. ;-) and....

2. They believe what their media and their insurance companies are telling them, which is mostly lies, scaremongering, and half-truths intended to deceive them.

I DO live somewhere where there is a far better health system than the USA has, so I am not taken in by your media, and your health insurance companies' propaganda and scaremongering.

Be that as it may, I do not think for a moment that Mr Obama's so-called health care plan is going to help much, because he caved in to your health insurance industry and is helping them, not the general public.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:16 PM

This whole thread has gone beyond stupid.

If no one is going to talk about reforming the U. S. health care system, I see no point in hanging around.

Don Firth

P. S. I'll make my points in the real world ~ my local and national legislative representatives, where I can make my wishes known to people who can do something about it.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:55 PM

Agreeing With Alice, Doug, Little Hawk(yo-ho), and Rig. It's time we get off this bit of the 'pie in the sky' pipe dream that of you never grew out of, from the sixties. If you want to help your fellow man, dig into your own pockets, and knock off passing legislation that FORCES more government CONTROL over our lives!!...and to quote the lyrics from an old blues tune..

My father ain't your father
Your mother ain't my mother
Get your hands out of my pockets
And quit calling me brother!

That being said, I, still to this day, and am in the planning stages, of playing for yet another benefit concert to raise funds for those in financial need, in our community...and basically all that is needed, is for the people to ask for the help..no strings attached!...and we even pay for certain medical expenses, too!!!

And while were at it, take another good look at this one, which most of us have either heard, and performed...the double edge sword cuts BOTH WAYS!


Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come SENATORS, CONGRESSMEN
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And DON'T CRITICIZE
WHAT YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
YOU OLD ROAD.
IS RAPIDLY AGIN'
PLEASE GET OUT OF THE NEW ONE
iF YOU CAN'T LEND YOUR HAND
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

Copyright ©1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

Bob Dylan wrote this anthem in 1964 as a challenge to the political and social status quo. I am not sure that it didn't also have to do with the wave of music that was forming and how it left youth feeling empowered.

Fast forward to 2009!!!!!!
Warmest Regards, especially to all those that get it!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 12:45 PM

Quoting from today's Rasmussen Reports, "Forty-nine percent (49%)of voters nationwide now rate the U.S. health care system as good or excellent. That marks a steady increase from 44% at the beginning of October, 35% in May and 29% a year-and-a-half ago."

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that "just 27% now say the U.S. health care system is poor."

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 12:25 PM

Alice may be shocked to learn that we agree on something. I think she is absolutely correct when she suggests that employers of illegals are the most responsible for the illegals coming to the US in the first place. If they paid a decent wage for the job done, legal citizens would take the jobs done by illegals.

If one considers the problem of the cost of providing health services to illegals as part of the discussion on the health care bill presently being considered in the congress, it's not that far off the subject.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:42 AM

DonT, Just a simple yes or no, would work. Besides, this is a music blog..isn't it??
After all the inane arguing, posting some music might do the soul good!!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:35 AM

""And at that, stick to heath care or start a new thread!

And you never said if you liked the other piece of music(?).""

Make up what we laughingly call your mind GfS.

Do you want him to stick to the thread topic, or comment on the music?

SHEESH!...Some people.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:31 AM

"—and she can't get anyone else to do it (mow her lawn) for her."

                   Actually, she can't get anyone else to do it for what she is willing to pay. The guy who would have done it is drawing unemployment compensation, but if he tried to do it for what the illegal is doing it for, he would lose his unemployment and his family would be out in the street.

                   Meanwhile, the illegal is doing it for cash under the table, so nothing is being paid into the ailing social security system, unemployment system, workers comp. programs, Medicaid and etc. So the fact that he doesn't make enough to pay income taxes is irrelevant.

                   Ergo, the taxpayers are subsidising the mowing of the lady's lawn, and the illegal alien is sponging off the taxpayers himself without even realizing it.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:00 AM

Are you absolutely sure you're real, Don? Stop now. Take a deep breath and consider.

Your entire apparent existence here as you presently see it may be a delusionary hallucination that is being experienced by a drunken monkey-being on Cygnus 4 in the Andromeda System. He imagines that he is a human being named Don Firth and further imagines that he is arguing with a "Guest" named GfS on some Earth-based internet forum...and it's all just a dream!

Yes, it could be possible. And how do you know it's not? Hmmm? Gotcha there, Durelko! Now wake up, get some help with that Cardassian Ale addiction problem, and attend to your real responsibilities which are at home with Dabnea and your 18 little monkey-being children.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:24 AM

Saying the bit about , "Who's going to mow the old lady's lawn?", is a bit as stereotypical, as if one who says, "Hey, who's going to fill the membership of M13, and bring in plenty of meth, to those strung out on it?"
You think all the gardeners are illegals??? Take a trip down south and take a look for yourself!...jeez! Ask the construction workers who's doing what. Hospitality businesses, restaurants, and sweat shops. Alice is absolutely correct...but along with that should be implemented that those who are entitled to entitlements, are people who pay into it...not just live off it, and or just buy drugs with the money, or know they don't have to work, because they're getting it...(speaking of stereotypical), as you have introduced. And at that, stick to heath care or start a new thread!

And you never said if you liked the other piece of music(?).

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:10 AM

"Get real..What have you been smoking????"

That hardly refutes my point. You're going to have to do a whole lot better than that.

I AM real. And I don't smoke. Anything.

I'm off to bed. Just made a quick check-in after our Thanksgiving Day guests left. Very enjoyable day.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 12:58 AM

Don:"And were it not for "illegals" like this, who's going to mow the lady's lawn?"

Get real..What have you been smoking????

P.S. How'd you like the other link?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 12:57 AM

By the way, I know of such a case for real. And I'll be damned if I'm going to rat on her because her only alternative is to hire some landscaping firm that charges more than she can possibly afford.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 12:52 AM

Then, of course, you would be persecuting the elderly widow who hires an itinerant Mexican worker to mow her lawn and do some yard work around her house because the teenager from down the street who used to do it has grown up and is off to college—and she can't get anyone else to do it for her.

Frankly, I don't begrudge either her or the worker, legal or illegal. Not every itinerant worker gets sick and "sponges off the system." After all, they are trying to earn enough to pay their own way and, hopefully, send some money to their families at home. And as far as income tax is concerned, they probably don't make enough to be in a category where they need to pay any.

And were it not for "illegals" like this, who's going to mow the lady's lawn?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:13 PM

900