BS: US Health Care Reform

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:58 PM

What the citizens want, BB, is the public option, and they will not be satisfied with any bill that does not contain it. That is abundantly clear to anyone who is paying attention. Whichever political party does the most to stand in the way of it will be hung out to twist in the wind in the next Congressional election.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:00 PM

BillD,

And how do WE know whgether you are "are just confused,or are lying to and convincing yourselves before you come in here and post distorted and false versions of the truth!

After all, YOU are now disagreeing with US. That seems to be sufficient, when WE point out that the DEMOCRATS could pass it WITHOUT the Republicans, yet it remains the Republican's fault that this ( bad ) bill is the BEST that the DEMOCRATS can come up with, holding contol of both houses and the Presidency, and keeping the Republicans out of the loop.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:04 PM

I've just said that the public option saves "the most" with the exception of single payer not for profit. I do not reject either of these.

The US pays twice as much for health care per capita than any other developed country in the world, and we get less care for that money. The other countries use either single payer not for profit, or they have strictly regulated insurance industries whose prices are dictated to them by the government.

We could definitely lower costs by strictly regulating the insurance industries, but I haven't seen any Republicans propose that alternative. Short of that, there is no way to bring the costs of health care down other than single payer not for profit, or a public option that will increase competition.

Those of us who advocate for either the public option or single payer not for profit know full well that they are not free. But we're not as stupid as the people who want to continue subsidizing the insurance industry as the Republicans want us to do. We know that we will get far more value for our money if the insurance companies aren't allowed to call all of the shots.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:00 PM

Doug...(if you are still following this)..Where did *I* claim that *I* find "good things in this bill"? I said that SOME folks say so. I suppose that if one woman in Walla Walla gets some help, that would be 'good'....but you and other conservatives are nitpicking at stuff taken out of context and ignoring the major points.
   
"·..try to come up with a bi-partisan bill that would not be so costly."
Doug...you still do not get it! Many Republicans are on record as saying that the point is to **NOT** pass any bill under a Democratic administration! Read what Jim DeMint has said...or Eric Cantor! This is no longer about health care for them....it is about Obama failing!
   The Republicans intend to make any GOOD bill impossible to pass, and to point at any BAD bill that does pass and say "Look at this ineffectual thing".
bearded bruce is already deep into the formula of asserting that the Democrats are offering us a bad bill and pretending not to hear how it is the **Republicans** and a few conservative Democrats who have watered it down using vague promises and legislative tricks...then backing out of any form of support.
Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman will NEVER find any language they can agree to! They could be invited to write the language themselves, and would then vote against their own amendments!

What I can't figure out is whether you, Doug, and BB, are just confused, or are lying to and convincing yourselves before you come in here and post distorted and false versions of the truth!

(You say I'm testy? Yup...shore am!)

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:38 PM

So you reject any solution that does not save "THE MOST"?

Yet you seem to want this bill.


The solution that gives each of us a billion dollars and free food and medical care is the best- since you think it is all free when the government spends money.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:23 PM

The public option lowers costs more than any other measure they could adopt other than single payer not for profit.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:15 PM

CarolC,

"In order to come up with a bill that will be less costly, they will have to include the public option. That goes the farthest in bringing down costs."

LESS means less than the present bill- thus they do NT have to include any particular thing, just cut the vast increases in spending.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:12 PM

Don Firth,

"but the fact that the bill as it currently stands is a labyrinth of blind alleys and contradictions, the best thing to do would be to dump it in the waste basket and go back to the drawing board and draw up a lean-and-mean bill that will accomplish what the citizens want."

I agree entirely. The problem is to determine "what the citizens want"- I am not so sure EITHER party has any idea.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:10 PM

BillD,

"health care fair & affordable for everyone. "

NOT what this or any other prposed bill by the Democrats would do.


It is a shame that the Dems are against giving a billion dollars to each voter.- Same logic- since NOTHING has been proposed that does what you claim is the goal, HOW CAN YOU BLAME the Republicans for NOT voting for it?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 11:37 AM

On the contrary. That would rescue the Democrats in 2010, as long as they do it well before the election. The majority of voters want the public option.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 07:12 AM

If they pass the Senate bill and add a public option through reconcilliation we will definately see a Republican majority in Congress in 2010.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:03 AM

In order to come up with a bill that will be less costly, they will have to include the public option. That goes the farthest in bringing down costs.

However, the Senate bill does include some things that are very important, including some that you have named, Doug. Unfortunately, while it does require insurance companies to insure people with pre-existing conditions, it allows them to charge far higher premiums for such people. That won't change anything for most people with pre-existing conditions. We will still be unable to get insurance because we won't be able to afford it. And we still need to eliminate the anti-trust exemption that the insurance industry enjoys.

If they pass the House bill or if they pass the Senate bill and then add on a public option later through reconciliation, that would be a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 12:09 AM

Bill D.: I don't see how you can possibly say some things in the current Senate Bill are good. It's my understanding that only a hand full of Democrats KNOW what's in the Bill. No one else does.

I see no reason why the Democrats MUST pass this Bill before the end of the year. I think they should scrap this one and start over with a much leaner Bill that would cover people who don't have health coverage, require private insurance companies to cover those with health conditions that prevent them from being covered now, allow people to buy health insurance across state lines (which would provide the competition most people appear to agree would be good)...try to come up with a bi-partisan bill that would not be so costly.

All major social legislation (civil rights, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.)were passed with the support of both major parties. It could be done with health care too.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:28 PM

I just read that it would be possible to pass the bill as it is now, and add the public option through reconciliation later on. They would have to plan for it in the budget at the beginning of the year, though. If they do that much, and if they make sure people know about it, the Democrats stand a chance of not losing their majority in 2010. If they don't do that, they're in big trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 10:05 PM

"Howard Dean and Wendell Potter are right, Bill"

Now, even Bernie Sanders is saying he would hate to not pass 'some' bill....sheesh...

Some are now saying..."pass the durned thing, and let's see what the House/Senate conference committee can do to put some decent stuff back in. ..... golly

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 08:08 PM

Howard Dean and Wendell Potter are right, Bill...

Obama and Harry Reid are wrong... This bill will only insure that the Democratic party's rise to power will be short lived... No, it's better for Obama to go to the American people and tell them that 40 Repubs and 4 of his own Dems derailed progress but that he is going out next year and campaign for folks who will come into Congress and get it right for the American people... That is what he needs to do both from the standpoint of pure politics but also from the standpoint of getting real reform... That won't hurt the Dems or Obama as much as passing this bill and having the Repubs use little bits and pieces of it to campaign against the Dems... Plus, not having it go into effect until after 2012 is falt out dumb from all aspects...

That's what the Dems and Obama should do along with escorting Leiberman to the door... They have nothin' at all to lose here and all to gain... This scenerio is probably the Repubs worst nightmare... Yeah, the Dems going into the '10 election on the heals of the Repubs refusing to step forward to help the American people and the American economy ain't gonna help the Repubs on bit...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 07:57 PM

Some folks say that we need a base...a start....even a flawed one which can be expanded later....to build on, and that this bill has 'some' good things in it and will help 'some' people.

However, the former insurance executive whistle blower, Wendell Potter who is speaking out these days says that IF there is a bill, this one is exactly what the insurance industry wants....that there are enough loopholes in it to run a train thru; that they will be able to charge what they wish, cut off many people who don't meet their criteria, take a larger % of premiums as profit, and generally do as they wish (under the guise of 'just following what the new law says).

Is that what we want? I wish I knew who was right.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 07:21 PM

They're bitching about abortion again!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 06:56 PM

Now, there ya go again, Carol, using "Doug" and "Honest" in the same sentance...

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 06:32 PM

Actually there are 56 Democrats, 2 independents, two wolves in sheep clothing and 40 Repubs...

The political reality is that most folks run with whatever party they have to to be elected... Here in Page County one must say they are Republican to get elected... I have a friend, Alan Cubbage, who is a former board of supervisor member who told me when I came here: "I ran as a Demnocrat and I lost. I ran as an Indpendent and I lost. Then I ran as a Republican and I won."

There are many jurisdictions just like Page County, Va. where folks pick a party based on wanting to win and not philosphy...

That is why the Dems can't get a decent health care reform bill passed... They need more real Dems and with the current stupid rules you have to have a ***solid*** philosophical majority to get anything truelu progressive thru the Senate and that is almost an impossibility...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 05:38 PM

(Keep your heart pills handy, Doug!)

". . . the major polls show that the majority of Americans DO NOT want the Bill currently being pushed by the Democrats to become law. . . ."

I'm afraid Doug has a point. The cobbling of the health care bill has reached that classic point where it can be said that Obama requested that Congress provide a horse, and once Congress got through with it, it's a six-legged camel with a head on each end.

But most Republicans and certainly some Democrats are in the pocket of the health insurance industry. That's why it's the mess that it is. They want it to be unacceptable to the voters.

If I had my druthers (which of course, I don't), I would say, "Scrap this abortion, go back to the drawing board, and draw up a lean-and-mean bill that will provide quality life-long health care for all American citizens, regardless of economic status or previous health history, disregarding any input from the insurance companies."

Health care does not mean health insurance. In fact, the health insurance companies, whose primary interest is profit, are actually inimical to quality health care.

This is undoubtedly not Doug's view of the matter, but the fact that the bill as it currently stands is a labyrinth of blind alleys and contradictions, the best thing to do would be to dump it in the waste basket and go back to the drawing board and draw up a lean-and-mean bill that will accomplish what the citizens want.

But, of course, partisan politics will gut any new attempt, just as it did this one. And will continue to do so ad nauseum.

With the present "buyable Congress" political system, I doubt very seriously that this country will have a decent, affordable, quality health care system like most other civilized countries any time in the foreseeable future.

PTUI!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 05:10 PM

I imagine this is a typo, because it makes no sense...

It appears to me that the public option is not included primarily because not enough Democrats and one Independent (who caucuses with the Democrats) did not want it included.


Beardedbruce is blaming "the Democrats" for the fact that the Senate bill does not contain a public option, but he places no responsibility on the vast majority of those who oppose it, the overwhelming majority of whom are Republicans. You can't blame the party that is mostly supporting the public option and not acknowledge the responsibility of the party that is entirely opposing it. At least you can't be honest and do that.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 04:52 PM

I repeat:

"The idea that Republican do not have the power to stop anything is sheer nonsense in a 60 vote situation!"
It is doubtful that ANY semi-controversial bill would get 60 votes, given several Democrats like Ben Nelson and Mary Landreau and with Joe "I'll vote against ANYTHING Anthony Weiner likes" Lieberman in the caucus.

You ought to know from a science background the difference between a theoretical possibility and practicality.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
and Doug...

"the majority of Americans DO NOT want the Bill currently being pushed by the Democrats to become law "

Why, you sure are right there, Doug! My... but a large majority DID want something like the version of the bill they started with!..before the $$$$ of the health care industry and conservative stonewalling watered it down!

It is the height of mental Gerrymandering to assert that this bill is what Democrats in general WANT.

It is sad that the current crop of Republicans put political aims ahead of actually DOING something to make health care fair & affordable for everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 04:26 PM

Carol C: you have your interpretation and BB and I have ours. It appears to me that the public option is not included primarily because not enough Democrats and one Independent (who caucuses with the Democrats) did not want it included.

The Republicans are opposed to the whole Bill, not just the public option. One of them, a senator who use to be a medical doctor, stated pretty clearly in a Wall Street Journal "Op Ed" piece today why they oppose it. I agree with him.

At this point, Obama doesn't give a damn whether or not the public option is included or not. He just wants a Bill to sign so that he can say health care was changed (read destroyed IMO) on his watch. For some reason he and the Democratic leadership believe passage of "something" will ensure Democrat continued domination in the House and the senate in 2010. I think if they pass it the majority in both houses will be captured by the Republicans in 2010. The first to go will be Harry Reid.

I don't know what polls you have been watching, but the major polls show that the majority of Americans DO NOT want the Bill currently being pushed by the Democrats to become law and Obama's approval rating is lower than any other president to serve at this point in their first term.

As you have pointed out numerous times, there is NO Bill at the present time but the Bill Harry Reid and his cohorts wrote behind closed doors is opposed by about 47% of those polled.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 02:27 PM

My mistake. I was looking at the wrong part of the chart. That part gave the number of Democrats in the last session. The current number is 58.

My point still stands, DougR. All of the Republicans are voting against allowing the public option to come to a vote. One Independent is threatening to filibuster. The majority of Democrats support including a public option in the Senate bill. The Republicans are more responsible than the Democrats for there not being a public option in the Senate bill by virtue of the fact that more of them are voting against it than the Democrats.

Beardedbruce is the brick wall in this particular scenario because he is trying to say that the majority of Democrats are to blame for what all of the Republicans, one Independent, and a very small number of Democrats are doing. That kind of math is like trying to say that all men are responsible for the actions of those men who abuse their wives.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 01:46 PM

BB: How does it feel to argue with a solid brick wall?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 01:28 PM

"Correction: there are only 48 Democrats in the Senate"


Huh?? Then Reid has no authority, and the bills are invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 01:13 PM

Correction: there are only 48 Democrats in the Senate.

It doesn't matter who the Independents caucus with. They are not Democrats. And one of them, Lieberman, is threatening to filibuster any bill that contains a public option. Lieberman is not a Democrat, so you can't blame the Democrats for his stupidity.

If ALL of the Republicans would support a filibuster by Lieberman (and they do), then the Republicans are perfectly able to kill the public option against the wishes of the majority of Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 01:10 PM

The independents caucus with the Democrats, NOT the Republicans.


HOW CAN 40 (of 100) stop the majority of 60 from passing WHATEVER they want??????????

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 01:08 PM

Beardedbruce, there are only 58 Democrats in the Senate. Not 60.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:51 PM

Bobert,

Look at the number of positions that Bush couldn't get an up-and-down vote on because of obstruction of the Democrats.

Or do you claim it it OK for the Democrats to do what you criticize Republicans for?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:46 PM

CarolC

Let me 'slain.

the Reps have 40 vote. 100 - 40 is 60.

60 is enough to push it through.

Duh!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:45 PM

Not only have the Repubs said they don't want a publioc option but once the Dems gave on it then the Repubs didn't want this and didn't want that... Bottom line, is the the Repubs justr want those bigass checks from the health insurance lobby coming in... That is the reality... Same with Lieberman...

As for the partisanship, bb, go back and check out the votes on Bush's bigass tax cuts to the wealthy and Bush's stupid war in Iraq and you'll find Dems who voted for them... That is called bipartisanship... No, look at the number of fillibitsres and threats of fillabusters that the Repubs have used since getting their butts busted in '06... Look at the number of judges that Clinton couldn't get an up-and-down gvote on because of obstruction of the Repubs... These are all benchmarks of who is doing the nastiest partisan politics and the Repubs make the Dems look like chior boys when it comes to measurable benchmarks of partisanship...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:35 PM

...and by vote against it, I am including voting against cloture in the event of a filibuster.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:34 PM

By voting against it! Duh!


The House, which has a larger Democratic majority already has a bill with a public option.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:20 PM

"YOU CAN'T BLAME THE REPUBLICANS for what the Democrats have done."
"THEY do not have the power to stop the Dems- SO IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT IF THE DEM BILL is a piece of crap!!!!"

Now THAT is the piece of crap!

The bill, as written, is chock-full of Republican & conservative Democrat 'input', in the form of concessions, in order to get ANYTHING.

If the bill is passed in this form, it will be a huge victory for Insurance Company lobbying, and they will end up making even MORE dirty dollars thru higher costs.

("So, Bill...if they will be better off, why fight it and vote against it?"
Why, because they don't want even a precedent of Democrats being ABLE to pass a bill! They want to paint the Obama administration as 'unable to come up with anything' and hope to win power back! They are quite happy with the status quo, which has very little government control, whereas the new law, if it were passed, would be a toe-hold and could be used to add more controls later.

The idea that Republican do not have the power to stop anything is sheer nonsense in a 60 vote situation!

Now.... I absolutely HOPE that the Democrats will say, "Ok,,, we tried to do something meaningful within standard procedures, and you harpooned every attempt....now we use reconciliation, and ...you reap what you sow"!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:12 PM

"They totally have the power to stop the Democrats from passing a bill with a public option."


HOW????

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 12:00 PM

They totally have the power to stop the Democrats from passing a bill with a public option. And that is precisely what they are doing. As I said before, if even just a small handful of Republicans would vote for a bill with a public option, we would have one right now. The majority of Democrats would vote for a bill with a public option.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:57 AM

"The Republicans have stated their unanimous opposition to any kind of public option. They have stated their intention to do everything they can to prevent any kind of public option being a part of any kind of health care reform bill. The Republicans are unanimous in their opposition to a public option. "

So what???

THEY do not have the power to stop the Dems- SO IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT IF THE DEM BILL is a piece of crap!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:56 AM

...and I should have added, if the Democrats knew they could count on even just a small handful of Republicans to support the public option, it would definitely be in whatever bill they put forward. It's only because of not having enough votes to pass a bill with a public option that none is currently in the bill they are working on.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:54 AM

That is incorrect. The Republicans have stated their unanimous opposition to any kind of public option. They have stated their intention to do everything they can to prevent any kind of public option being a part of any kind of health care reform bill. The Republicans are unanimous in their opposition to a public option. It doesn't matter for the purpose of this discussion whether or not they have been able to put forward any proposals of their own, since none of them would include a public option, and it is the public option that we are talking about here.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:49 AM

"So it is very much the fault of the Republicans that the Senate proposals do not include what the majority of people want, which is the public option, and therefore it is the fault of the Republicans that the majority of people don't support what the Senate is currently proposing. "


No, you are wrong. Since the Dems have NOT worked with the Reps. , the Dems get the total credit/blame for THIS set of bills.


The Republicans HAVE NOT HAD INPUT as to what is in the bill. Your blaming them is pointless.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:45 AM

The majority of people want the public option, and while a very small number of Democrats have been working against the public option, the vast majority of Democrats have been working to include a public option, while ALL of the Republicans have been working against the public option. So it is very much the fault of the Republicans that the Senate proposals do not include what the majority of people want, which is the public option, and therefore it is the fault of the Republicans that the majority of people don't support what the Senate is currently proposing.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:18 AM

And I should REITERATE that it is definitely the Democrats fault for WHATEVER in the current Senate proposal.



The Dems CONTROL the Senate- they refused to consider the Rep. amendments, and PROHIBITED the Republicans from the meetings.

Reid wrote this bill, NOT BUSH!!!!



YOU CAN'T BLAME THE REPUBLICANS for what the Democrats have done.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:14 AM

And I should add that it is definitely the Republicans' fault that there is no public option in the current Senate proposal.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 10:32 AM

What the majority wants, according to the polls you posted yourself, is a public option. That is not included in the current Senate proposals, and that is probably why the majority is against what is being proposed right now in the Senate.

Your own evidence has proved you wrong about the public option.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 10:27 AM

CarolC,

The majority DOES NOT WANT the present Democratic ( since they refused to consider ANY Republican amendments, they get ALL the blame) "Reform" that require YOU to spend more and get less health care.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 10:12 AM

Beardedbruce, according to the polls you just posted, the majority of people do want the public option. In most of them, it's a fairly large majority. Your own evidence proves you wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 09:08 AM

"...47 experts have said, Riggo, that that is NOT what the Democrats are doing. That is a stupid distortion of what is in the bill."

               What is in the bill are massive cuts to Medicare. It would be a stupid distortion to think that is not going to result in a lower quality of care to Medicare users.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 07:56 AM

"1. Partisanship is something that both parties are equally quilty ot playing..."

No, the Democrats are demonstrating that they are far more guilty, since they are in power. When the Repubs were in power, THEN they were partisan.



"2. The Goevernemnt wants to kill you garndma..."

No, it just does not care to save lives over being cost effective.



"3. The Governemnt wants to take over health care..."

No, they do not WANT to, but the bills being considered attempt to do so.




"4. Obama is a socialist..."

No, he just supports a number of policies that are closer to socialist than to capitalist.



"5. Obama wants to raise *your* taxes..."

True- He states that they will not be raised, yet the proposals he has supported will do so, regardless of what he says.




"6. If the health care reform bill is passed the unemployement will go up..."

Definitely false- If the present bills are passed, the government will grow by far more than the jobs lost in private industry.





So, I agree that Bobert is right that 5 of his 6 "lies" are not true as stated.

72% technically correct is pretty good- the best he has done so far.