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Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: katlaughing Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:28 PM My Rog is from New Hampshire. He puts an "r" on the end of words making them odd, such as "idea(r), and Marth(r), instead of idea and Martha; then he would drop an "r" in words like Hawthorne, so it comes out Haw-thawn. Reminded me of my English landlady always going on about the la(w)r. Anyway, he told me he remembers this from when he was a kid: his mom sewed a lot; very thrify woman. Whenever she needed to oil her sewing machine motor, she'd go buy a little can of what WE would call "Ethel's Motor Drops; but, being the Yankees they were, it always came out "Ether's Motor drops". Rick, I had one of those cars, too! Only our motor was mounted on the roof; then it really looked like the alien spacecraft model they used for the design. kat |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Fadac Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:36 PM Speaking of lube. The very best for critical instruments is...whale oil. Yes that is not pc, but long time ago, I had a small jar of the stuff. The best part was that it would never gum up. Used to use it on things like adding machines, clocks, typewriters, firearms, etc. Oh, yes, my mother's sewing machine. Of course you can't get it anymore. There is supposed to be a replacement, but after a while it gums up and messes up the works. I had a three speed, three cylinder VW, one time. No 3rd gear and no #3 cylinder. Ran like crap. -Fadac |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Peter T. Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:45 PM kat, you may be onto something here. There is a reference in the song to sewing. In the song the E is long (as in Aether) -- not short as in Ethel. Was Ethel a person (like a picture with a lady on it on the can?) yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Art Thieme Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:50 PM minimal censorship sure beats love it or leave it... This isn't brain surgery, friends. It's folk music. and recent threads are chasing away people who DO know what that means and, in turn, allowing those who don't have a clue to stick around. Art (who won't goose-step blindly in the name of love and peace or anything else) |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Night Owl Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:36 PM This is useless information I think...BUT...someone a while ago wrote a VERY visual description of how they saw the Mudcat in their mind's eye...talking about entering a very comfortable welcoming house with different activities going on in each room...Irish music in one room, Blues in another, warm conversation in the kitchen...etc. and that the excitement here was the ability to choose which room to sit in. Allan C. Your post described, incredibly accurately, our long gone General Store here...(A&P came) Neighbors could share their news and sit for a bit...the common bond we had there was respect for our community's history. The older people shared their stories of growing up and lessons learned to us "younger" people, but the conversations were by no means restricted to local history or current events. People were continually coming in and asking questions, maybe join us for a bit, sharing where they were from..and leaving. The chairs were set to one side of the pickle barrel, and a few feet away was a large brick of cheese...if customers guessed the correct weight of the cheese slices they cut, it was free. We gradually came to care very deeply if one of the "regulars" was sick, having a rough time or missing for any length of time. It was never an "exclusive" group but respect for the history and comraderie of the store was required in order to enjoy spending any length of time there and coming back again. Different individuals sat around the pickle barrel for over a hundred years, long before I participated, and would have continued long after I left. Thanks for the imagery/memory. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: catspaw49 Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:52 PM Thank you Art..........and I did read your post re: live in Area A, sleep in Area B, throw a cr*p in Area C ala Ol' Lenny and I should have gone back and backed you up then.......my apologies. Reasonable courtesy in honest face to face debate should be a requirement. I would like to emphasize that face to face part. Asking as Seed did for garg to send the vitriol privately is fine. I do have a problem with the hypocrisy of secreting real thoughts while portraying something else. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: The Shambles Date: 20 Jul 99 - 02:12 PM Just to show that this is a pretty regular occurence. Thread courtesy etc;. Well I'm still no wiser, I know Mick said it happened. For the point I made earlier, it does matter to me to know if this is correct? Then I will be only too pleased to leave it alone. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Jul 99 - 02:22 PM Drop it, Shambles. Apparently, some sort of misdirected censorship did happen once, and the perpetrator was aparently a JoeClone® in training. It happened one time, and probably won't happen again. OK? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Jul 99 - 02:44 PM I just decided to censor myself. I'll probably go deaf or blind. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: The Shambles Date: 20 Jul 99 - 04:14 PM Thank you.
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: katlaughing Date: 20 Jul 99 - 04:28 PM Gotcha PeterT.! I thought you'd see the tongue in cheek?:-) No Ethel, but my mother-in-law did sew and Rog still pronounces words strangely. I just made up Ethel and her drops. Sorry, it brings you no closer to a solution. Do you have a link where we can hear it? Fadac: I used to own a Ford Cortina (English). It was an adventure to drive. Whenever I put it in reverse, I'd have to lift up the carpet, take the plate off of the trannie, stick a screwdriver between the gears and pop it out, so that I could drive forward again! Lotta fun, NOT! kat |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Bill D Date: 20 Jul 99 - 04:32 PM fadac...had one of them VW's...a bus! 56 bus with a 59 engine...and that back cylinder on the left,(#3?)was always giving trouble...but the deal with a VW, then was, you could pull the engine..set it on a bench, and mess with it!..(I had that b&w book written by the hippie, and a buddy who loved yo tinker!0 |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Ferret Date: 20 Jul 99 - 05:24 PM You can pleas most of the people most of time, but you can't pleas all the people all of the time Remember Jaw, Jaw, is far better than War, War. I have fond the caters that I have disagreed with often more interesting than some of the one I have concerned with. That is to say it make's you think it is. And can be very thought provoking. And the forum is safe place for this to happen people my get offended but not physically hurt. There is always the ability to ignore some thing you fin offensive and not respond. I would like to remind some of the definition of forum in the Dictionary 1: A meeting for the open discussion of subjects of public interest. 2: A medium for open discussion. 3: A public meeting place for open discussion. If you censor it, it will by definition not be open discussion this does not give an excuse for rudeness. Those who have to result to this tack have usually lost the discussion (Remember empty vessels make the most noise) So NO to censorship. Yes to self restrant. All the best ferret |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Peter T. Date: 20 Jul 99 - 05:31 PM rats kat, I was serious! A Net search did turn up something called Aether Drops, and there is sewing machine oil, but! rats! (it was a good gotcha, all the same!) yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: katlaughing Date: 20 Jul 99 - 05:35 PM Well put, Ferret. Soooo soooorrryyyy, Peter!***BIG GRIN**** My search didn't turn up anything, but next time I talk to my dad, I'll ask him if he's ever heard of them. kat |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Melodeon Date: 20 Jul 99 - 07:03 PM The great thing about MUDCAT as far as I'm conceerned is that a thread on censorship (a subject beloved by fascists, Hoover, Maggy Thatcher and their like) throws up something fascinating. I refer of course to the 'ethermotor'and the almost 3 cylinder VW. Would this get censored if some had their wicked way with our forum. Melodeon |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Legal Eagle Date: 20 Jul 99 - 07:06 PM But then, Sham, I would not be able to see or hear your point. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: alison Date: 20 Jul 99 - 08:37 PM Shambles, It did happen as Mick said. I am a witness, but I can't remember what is was about.... and like he said he's willing to drop it, so should the rest of us. Slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: j0_77 Date: 20 Jul 99 - 09:11 PM NO Readers will notice, I am sure, that I don't post a lot and if so the postings are direct - no wussy stuff fer me - anywho - seein as this is a self examination time - I will let ya'll in on a secret - the reason I do not get into more debates is cause I am tooo busy doing music or my lil 10 cent busines - (I barely survive) - and if I wuz a jouralist I would still be against censorship - gargoyle take note - But I admit I do go overboard at times PHEW
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Big Mick Date: 20 Jul 99 - 09:33 PM My last word on this subject is that no one should make any assumptions as to who did this. Thank you, Alison (otherwise known as THE FAIR ALISON) for letting them know that you were witness. I had no intentions of mentioning names and I am grateful that you have lent credibility. I want to say that I do not believe that Joe Offer, Max, Dick or Susan had anything to do with this. You may think that that eliminates all possibilities, but let me assure you it does not. I have watched this site for a considerable amount of time. I believe these people to be honorable and do not believe they had anything to do with it. It was relatively minor and has not occurred since despite plenty of occasions where I am sure these fine people would have loved to exercise the option. I think that we all know that there will be no censorship here. Let's give this one a rest. There is no debate. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: gargoyle Date: 20 Jul 99 - 10:40 PM Ok....I'll take the blame....
I censored you with a "hack."
Glad to be the Smoo....
Let's get back to music. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: John Hindsill Date: 20 Jul 99 - 11:23 PM I really cannot believe that anyone would want to censor this forum! While I do no agree with many postings, either as to content or intent, I think we would be poorer for the lack of them. Sometimes what we perceive in a written posting is not intended; as I told Catspaw49 in the chat room, inflection is everything and is lost in a simple written statement. Even where the comments become ad hominum I subscribe to the old sayings of "sticks and stones" and "I'm rubber, you're glue" What would we censor if censor we did? Trade union songs? Anti-union songs? Murder ballads? National anthems? Gospel music? Nursery songs? and etc. And the discussions about these and other topics, would they be taboo? I would hope no. For Melodeon, hate to tell you that facists (big F or little f) don't have the market on censorship. I cite Orwell's "1984" as what Communism did, and maybe does yet. Too, is not P.C. a form of censorship imposed by the Left? Yeah, I think so. Somebody famous said that the antidote to free speech is more free speech. While I may not have it exactly right, I think it an apt aphorism for us.---John |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: SeanM Date: 21 Jul 99 - 12:45 AM On behalf of myself and hopefully the rest of the gang, it would appear that the answer to the thread's title is a resounding NO. As guilty as I am of BSing as much as everyone else is, can we drop this subject and get back to the possums? M |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Ferret Date: 21 Jul 99 - 04:22 AM seanM is that Fried or boiled. Ferret |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Jack (who is called Jack) Date: 21 Jul 99 - 11:38 AM I have no problem with the regulation and inhibition of any forum by an individual or group provided that the said forum is essentially the sole property and creation of said private individual or group. If you publish a newspaper, you get to print what you want (within the bounds of laws against libel, the improper use of copyrighted intellectual property without consent, government secrets, or inciting speech, etc...). You also get to exclude what you don't want to print. That's not censorship, thats private discretion, which is a cornerstone of free speech. In other words, free speech doesn't just mean that you can say or publish whatever you want, it means that you don't have to repeat or publish something just because some other person or agency wants you to do so. The confusion occurs when people believe that THEY THEMSELVES are publishing on Mudcat. The truth is that while they are doing the writing, it is Mudcat in the persons of Dick, Max, Susan et al, which is doing the publishing. So in the current context, those who submit these writings are enjoying the full excersise of their rights by being able to write what they want and to freely send it to another party with a request that it be published by that other party. On the other hand those associated with Mudcat are enjoying full excercise of THEIR free speech rights by having descretion over whether they actually do publish it. The fact that Mudcat is currently choosing a priori to publish just about anything that comes in does not imply a waiver of that basic privelege. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: katlaughing Date: 21 Jul 99 - 11:45 AM JackwicJ, you put your finger right on it! Excellent point! Thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: annamill Date: 21 Jul 99 - 11:55 AM jackwicJ, I have a very strong feeling that you are a lawyer!! Maybe even a judge. Maybe even a supreme court judge. Very well expressed as Katlaughing says. I guess we do need a certain amount of discrete choice. After having met the powers that be, I feel very safe with their choices. Intellegent and honorable, they are! Love, annap |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: Mike Strobel Date: 21 Jul 99 - 12:57 PM Dear BBC & Fellow Mudcats, First of all, BBC's written comments were an excellent example of a kind heart , via the written word. The clarity of these thoughts stated the issues and observations which are missing from personal conversations, that, I'm sure we all realize. However, the ability for all " Mudcatters ", to support each other through these new electronic mediums is a luxury/tool/vehicle that we should cherish and till like a garden. The garden requires dedication in order to produce a floral and/or vegatable bounty and ideally if we choose to dedicate ourselves to liberal, yet , respectful communication, then we will always be sure all the flowers ( opinions ) or the vegatables ( voices ) will grow and be heard. |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: bbc Date: 21 Jul 99 - 01:51 PM Really good thoughts, Jack & Mike. When I read Jack's post, I reflected on the Mudcat Resources site & the thread on wanting to "employ" Dick Greenhaus. One of the nice points of doing something voluntarily (free) is that you get to decide what you do, how you do it, & in what timeframe. Many times, money changing hands constrains freedom of choice. Thanks for reminding us that this is Max's website, at which we are guests. I think I heard Mike asking us to be *nice* guests. bbc BTW, Joe, I realize that not all will do so. You're right--once we are grown, we don't tend to change much because of what others tell us. As we learned in the Dalai Lama joke, change comes from within. :) |
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread) From: John OSh Date: 21 Jul 99 - 05:13 PM No to Censorship! The basis of most "folk" music, whether it be from America, Great Britian, Ireland, China, etc ad nauseum is often based in contraversy. People wrote songs about their lives and times and events which they percieved. The incontravertable fact of the matter is that this being a "free" forum to dicuss music or events or just stream of though gives a marketplace of ideas, a free exchange of thoughts and opinions oan feelings which others can react to or think on, much as music is suppposed to encourge free expression of ideals. I post occasionally, but often just log on and check out what is being said. With the world being diverse as it is, everyone must understand that people have differing thoughts on topics, and express them in various ways. While as a matter of general respect, personal attacks and blantant, hurtful expressions of topics such as racism, religious intolerence, etc should be avioded and not tolerated by all members of the forum, one should also keep a general open mind to others ideas and thoughts. Always remember, well expressed thoughts are always more effectve at bring a point than using a "sword" slash approach. Now, off my high horse and no to cersorship! John OSh |
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