BS: Home Education UK

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 05:27 PM

Carol I really had no idea if it was real or not - although I strongly suspected it wouldn't be - so I simply checked it out!

No one 'set you up' it was a joke that was shared is all - a bit like the ones about Sarah Palin and those banned books - remember?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 05:19 PM

Nice set up. Post something as if it were real, and if I voice an opinion about it, make fun of me for not figuring it out? I don't understand why someone would want to do that.


No, my sense of humor is very well developed, and perfectly intact. If there had been such a recorded message at a real school, regardless of whether or not schools had such experiences with students and parents, as the people who are in the position of authority and also as employees of the tax paying public, they have a responsibility to maintain a professional demeanor with the public they serve.


And if schools do actually experience these kinds of behaviors on the part of parents and students, I, personally, see that as an indictment of the system itself. If the system was effective, those kinds of behaviors would not be a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 05:07 PM

I meant to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroochydore_State_High_School

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 05:05 PM

Wikipedia suggests it is a hoax so now we are all happy. I think it is hilarious. And it isn't real.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 05:00 PM

Carol, have you had your sense of humor surgically removed? I KNOW some of these parents. NOTHING is Their Darlings fault!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:56 PM

Carol, check with snopes! FALSE!
This is the actual school -

'Maroochydore State High School Captain, Mark Pennini was recently honoured with an Order of Australia Student Citizenship Award.

Mark was one of only fourteen young Queenslanders to receive this prestigious award at a ceremony held recently in the Old Legislative Council Chamber at Parliament House, Brisbane. Mark received his award from the Hon Justice Margaret McMurdo AC, President, Court of Appeal, Supreme Court of Queensland. His proud parents Jennifer and Lou Pennini were also present at the awards ceremony The award was made in recognition of Mark's services to his school and community.

This is one of a number of awards to be bestowed on Mark this year. In March this year, Mark was a Queensland representative at the 2009 National Schools' Constitutional Convention in Canberra.'

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:47 PM

I see the attitude in the automated message as being fairly typical of the problem. When schools (the supposed authority figure in the equation) not only participate in, but actually foster an adversarial relationship with parents and children, that doesn't help inspire those whith whom they are creating the adversarial relationship to want to work with them. It also shows that those in authority have a fairly high degree of contempt for those they are paid to serve.

I would never want to send my child to a school with that kind of attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:35 PM

Too funny - if the Facebook link doesn't work for you try here

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:30 PM

It worked for me - I also posted it on Facebook!!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: jeddy
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:15 PM

not sure this will work but if it does.. as seen on facebook....LOL



http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/video/video.php?v=1212601907690

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 03:46 PM

After high school (the one what was similar to Summerhill), I made an attempt at going to college (cut short by undiagnosed learning disabilities). The teacher in an English class was interested in an exchange between me and another student during class. He asked where we had gone to high school. We told him and it turned out we had gone to the same school. The teacher said he could always tell which of his students had gone to that particular high school. He said we were always highly articulate and also strongly individual and not very conformist.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 03:38 PM

the life and soul of all the parties and with by far the most mature outlook of any of us.

Not as good but the Woodcraft Folk have a similar effect on young people. A teacher at my daughters' school commented she could always tell the Woodcraft folk students.

I think it is the chance to talk in meetings and have their views respected that makes the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 02:11 PM

I'm a huge fan of Summerhill. I've never been there, but I read the book when I was younger. The high school I went to had some similarities to Summerhill during the time I was there, and I think that school may have saved my life.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 02:04 PM

Doh! IGNORE

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 02:01 PM

Sorry I misunderstood your last post, my fault! I thought you were having a strop. But then I know nothing of shanty talk.

As far as your lady singer is concerned, I'd find it tough to genuinely judge the vocals as good or whatever, as I found her to be a bit 'lost' a behind the drums.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 12:31 PM

thanks for that link Tug the Cox - it's so unusual to discuss bereavement - or even acknowledge death with children in the UK.

From the introduction the quote

" the children begin to realize the importance of caring for their classmates."

reminded me of the experiences of the daughter of one of our members here and the pupils in her school described on another thread

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=123898
- describing a 13 year old school friend dignosed with leukemia

'They have a big crowd of friends and they are all hoping to go and visit her every week'

Not all state schools represent the "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" version of Hell some would have us believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:21 AM

Schools can get it right, I wonder why so many don't try

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armP8TfS9Is

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:12 AM

"by law, all independent schools must register with the Department for Education, and there is an inspection to see that they meet an adequate standard.
The government can issue a notice of complaint against any independent school, leading to it being struck off the register - and making it illegal for the school to continue teaching. '"

Cheers Emma, question answered.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:08 AM

'Ofsted does not routinely inspect independent schools in the way that it does maintained schools.
But by law, all independent schools must register with the Department for Education, and there is an inspection to see that they meet an adequate standard.

The government can issue a notice of complaint against any independent school, leading to it being struck off the register - and making it illegal for the school to continue teaching. '


In 1999 a critical report by the Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted), prompted the Education Secretary, David Blunkett, to file a formal "notice of complaint" against Summerhill School demanding that it make changes to remedy six specific issues
It complained that pupils were allowed "to mistake idleness for the exercise of personal liberty" and that non-attendance at lessons was the root cause of its educational shortcomings.

Summerhill appealed against three of the six demands to the independent schools tribunal, chaired by a retired circuit court judge.

The school's lawyer, Geoffrey Robertson QC, said the freedom exercised by the pupils whether or not to go into the classroom was not negotiable
"If you insist that it is negotiable, as Ofsted wants to make it, that will be the end of Summerhill." he argued

Counsel for the education secretary, Alison Foster, said he was not trying to close the school.
"He is not intent on enforcing compulsory lessons on Summerhill pupils nor on compelling the abandonment of the general philosophy of education propounded by A S Neill."

But, she added, the minister was entitled to regard a particular form of education as being too narrow.

The Ofsted report stated
"This report cannot and does not pass judgement on the unique philosophy on which Summerhill is founded. It focuses upon the issue of whether the quality of the education provided is effective in practice."

They concluded: "Summerhill is not providing an adequate education for its pupils.
"Whether the pupils make sufficient progress and achieve the standards of which they are capable is left to each child's inclination. As a result, those willing to work achieve satisfactory or even good standards, while the rest are allowed to drift and fall behind."

A management consultant Professor Ian Cunningham, called in by the school said the government would contravene the European Convention on Human Rights if it closed the school.

The complaints were withdrawn after the school agreed to encourage pupils to attend lessons and improve its teaching and assessment.

The decision to accept Mr Blunkett's statement was taken at a meeting of past and present Summerhillians at London's law courts

Summerhill's pupils and teachers said they had 'won'

Despite it's attitude to compusory attendance at lessons (Chino Otsuka did not attend lessons for two years after she started at Summerhill School in 1982, at the age of 10) lessons are often taught quite traditionally .
However, class sizes are small (often as few as 4-5 pupils per class) and individualized instruction is routinely available.

In 2003 the school had 14 staff and 91 pupils over half of whom came from outside the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 10:58 AM

One odd presumption by the more aggressive homeschooling advocates here seems to be that going to school precludes learning anything from your parents.

A thread about disability aids was what brought that up. It occurred to me that my automatic response - fix it up yourself unless you know you're out of your depth - wasn't shared by everybody. But then I was brought up to fix things. My father was an architect and did a lot of home construction, my mother's father was a craftsman skilled at several trades who could do house wiring and metal-pipe plumbing. So I learned from them. But not JUST from them, as I had two years of formal lessons in woodwork and metalwork at school. I didn't have access to a lathe or a metal casting furnace at home, but a lot of the skills transferred.

Similarly what I was taught about literature and science at school helped me make sense of the books my parents had round the house.

Art and music were different: I had very litle art education at school, but there were a lot of books about it at home. I had a reasonable music education at school, but my parents weren't into it at all and I had to find my own way. For both it would have been better if school and home had not each been my sole resource.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 10:49 AM

I was at university with a student who had been educated at Summerhill. She had 4 A grades at A level like every one else but the difference was that she had investigated for herself what it would take to get to where she wanted to be (a conference interpreter), and set her own goals and study plan. Her family background was, however, extremely dodgy (though there was money or she couldn't, presumably, have gone there) and she was glad to be detached from it. She was also the most balanced student I came across, the life and soul of all the parties and with by far the most mature outlook of any of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 10:33 AM

Students brought up in Summerhill that would want to go to University would study "normally" - if they need qualifications they are expected to work for them.

But Universities do not need "qualifications" as such. Once you are over 21 they can accept anyone they like. I don't have "standard qualifications". The vast majority of mature
students don't have standard qualifications.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 10:27 AM

I referred to a free school earlier in this thread. I was referring to Summerhill.

Long time since I was there, in fact the school is highly structured - but nothing is compulsory. There is a meeting three times each week. Classes are in fact fairly formal, they are just not compulsory.

The school has been inspected twice I think. The first time it was inspected as a normal "school", the second "on its own terms". The second time around it was inspected on its own terms and flew through. Bit of bad carpet here and there.

This is all available on the school's own website.

The majority of pupils are from abroad when I was there and I have to tell you it isn't cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 09:38 AM

What happens when children from such schools err want to enter careers that require degrees? Don't they have any standard examinations?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 09:35 AM

In the UK the famous Summerhill school, founded by AS Neill managed to fight of Ofsted in the courts precisely on this issue.
   Steiner schools also have their own ways of doing things, and are working with the government to see if the systems can co-exist in the mainstream ( as they do in germany)with the setting up of a Steiner-Waldorf academy in Herefordshire.
   There are still many free schools as well, notably the small school at Hartland, thye Park school at Dartington, and Sands school at newton Abbot.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:08 AM

Thanks for the 'clarification' of the situation regards accredation of US schools ladies.. It read like a comedy script! Anyhoo..

I don't know whether there are ANY exemptions among UK schools for testing of standards? Are there things faith schools get away with that regular schools don't? No idea, my assumption is that they must meet all the usual academic requirements as any secular school.

Amongst lesser issues like needy parents (yes they exist too) being too dependent on their children. Jeddy commented on the possible dangers of extremists like neo-Nazi's being in a position to utterly brainwash their kids through keeping them out of school, and thus preventing them access to any other ideas which might undermine their complete indoctrination.

LC thought J was being "out of order", so I just threw up the "home-schooling" (which appears to amount to little more than religious brainwashing) in some extreme Christian groups in US, as an example of equally dodgy but quite real potential pit-falls of home education v's traditional schooling.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 05:03 PM

LOL

*shakes head and walks away*

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:59 PM

But still not walking away shaking your head I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:56 PM

At least I'm capable of admitting when I'm wrong, unlike the nit picking haranguer.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:52 PM

Ah Carol - the old fall back position when your half truths are outed.

Interestingly enough Texas has no requirements for home schooling or for attendance reports. They do have health and safety requirements though.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:34 PM

It's really not about the issues for the poster who is spending so much time haranguing people in this thread. It's all about throwing their weight around and trying to control what other people can and can't say in the thread. Some people just keep squealing until others just walk away shaking their heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:32 PM

Ah, I see now where the nit picking is taking place. Ok, I will retract what I said about there not being any government interference in the schools I mentioned.

However the statement that Schools are accredited and can lose their accredidation if they do not meet minimum standards is wrong. SOME schools are accredited and can lose their accreditation if they do not meet minimum standards. Other schools do not have to be accredited at all.

So my actual point, which the nit picker is studiously ignoring, still stands. If one applies the standard that was being advocated, to require all home schooling environments to be accredited and to be required to meed certain academic standards is applied to only home schooling situations, that will NOT correct the problem that was articulated as the reason for wanting these standards unless they are also applied to ALL private schools, including church schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:25 PM

"The above poster was WRONG in thinking it applied to none of it."

Really? You have not found one stste that has no government requirement for non-public schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:23 PM

Please read my 05 Oct 09 - 04:18 PM post.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:22 PM

"I don't know how things are structured in the UK, but in the US, at least, schools that are privately owned and run are not subject to any kinds or monitoring or testing or any kind of government intervention at all."

This is what you said.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:20 PM

And as I said (and I was right), the standards applied to home schoolers in Alabama are stricter than they are for church schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:19 PM

(the above poster who is not me)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:18 PM

I was wrong in thinking that what I said applied to all of the US. The above poster was WRONG in thinking it applied to none of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:17 PM

In Alabama, the parents of children in church schools have to report their child's attendance in a church school. The school does not have to report it. The school only countersigns the form. The school has to obey fire codes and things like that. They are not subject to accreditation, their curricula don't have to be approved, the teachers don't have to hold certificates from the state board of education, and there is no mandatory length of school year. The church schools don't have any academically related requirements.

At the end of the fifth day from the opening of the public school, the principal teacher of each private school, but not church school, must report to the local superintendent the names and addresses of all children age 7-16 enrolled; and thereafter, at least weekly the names of students absent without excuse. Code of Ala. 1975 § 16-28-7.

At church schools, enrollment and attendance must be reported to the local public school superintendent by the parent or guardian on a form provided by the superintendent. The administrator of the church school countersigns the enrollment form. If a child leaves the church school, the church school will notify the local public school superintendent, by prior consent of the parent or guardian. Ala. Code § 16-28-7.

Length of School Year/Day: Under the compulsory attendance law, children attending private schools, but not church schools, are required to attend "the entire length of the school term." Ala. Code § 16-28-3.

Instruction in English: Private schools, but not church schools, are required to use the English language in giving instruction. Ala. Code § 16-28-1(1).

Teacher Certification: Instruction at private schools, but not church schools, must be provided by persons holding certificates issued by the state superintendent of education. Ala. Code § 16-28-1 (1)a, (2).

Curriculum: Private schools, but not church schools, are required to offer instruction in "the several branches of study required to be taught in the public schools." Ala. Code § 16-28-1(1).

Private schools, but not church schools, must provide a physical education program which conforms to the program outlined by the Alabama Department of Education. Ala. Code § 16-40-1.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:17 PM

Read it all. Neither private nor church schools or for that matter home schools are free to do as they please in Alabama.
You state:
"I don't know how things are structured in the UK, but in the US, at least, schools that are privately owned and run are not subject to any kinds or monitoring or testing or any kind of government intervention at all."

Maybe you have the US confused with Canada.

There are government requirements in Alabama for church schools:


Recordkeeping/Reports: The principal teacher of private and church schools must keep an attendance register showing the enrollment of the school and every absence of each enrolled child from school for a half day or more. Ala. Code § 16-28-8. The registry is admissible as evidence in compulsory attendance hearings. Ala. Code of Ala. 1975 § 16-28-23.

At church schools, enrollment and attendance must be reported to the local public school superintendent by the parent or guardian on a form provided by the superintendent. The administrator of the church school countersigns the enrollment form. If a child leaves the church school, the church school will notify the local public school superintendent, by prior consent of the parent or guardian. Ala. Code § 16-28-7.

Transportation: A license tax or registration fee of $13.00 is imposed on motor buses owned by a church or a private school that are used only for the purposes of the institution. Ala. Code § 40-12-246 (d).

Home Schooling is also regulated:
Home Schooling: Every child between the ages of 7 and 16 are required to attend a public school, private school, church school, or be instructed by a private tutor certified by the state of Alabama for the entire length of the school term in every scholastic subject. Parents who want to have their child instructed at home must either do so through a certified tutor or must qualify as a church school. Church schools offer instruction in grades K-12 or any combination thereof; are operated as a ministry of a local church or group of churches, denomination, and/or association of churches on a nonprofit basis; and do not receive any federal or state funding. Ala. Code §§ 16-28-1; 16-28-3. The enrollment and attendance of a child in a church school must be filed with the local public school superintendent by the parent or guardian on a form provided. Ala. Code § 16-28-7.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:03 PM

Here it is, yet once again...

"Registration/Licensing/Accreditation: All private schools, except church schools, must register annually on or before October 10 with the Alabama Department of Education and report on the number of students and instructors, enrollment, attendance, course of study, length of term, cost of tuition, funds, value of property, and the general condition of the school. Ala. Code § 16-1-11. The state superintendent of education furnishes the necessary forms for reporting. Ala. Code § 16-4-16.

"Church schools" are defined as schools offering "instruction in grades K-12, or any combination thereof including the kindergarten, elementary, or secondary level and are operated as a ministry of a local church, group of churches, denomination, and/or association of churches on a nonprofit basis which do not receive any state or federal funding." Ala. Code 16-28-1.

Licensing by the Alabama Department of Education is required annually prior to the operation of a private school. Ala. Code § 16-46-5. However, most private elementary and secondary schools would qualify for EXEMPTIONS, as schools operated by "a parochial, denominational, or religious organization, and/or as a ministry of a local church or group of churches on a nonprofit basis" or schools operated by "a community, educational organization, or group of parents, organized as a nonprofit educational corporation with the expectation of establishing a more favorable environment for those in attendance." Ala. Code § 16-46-3. Exempted private schools may voluntarily request to be licensed without surety. Ala. Code § 16-46-3(d). Licensing is based on specific criteria, such as, the quality and content of curriculum, adequate space, equipment, instructional materials and personnel, recordkeeping, and financial stability. Ala. Code § 16-46-5(i)(1)-(7). Ala. Admin. Code r. 290-030-050.

By definition, a private school, but not a church school, holds a certificate issued by the state superintendent of education showing that the school conforms to the following requirements: (1) instruction is given by persons holding certificates issued by the state superintendent of education; (2) instruction is given in the several branches of study required to be taught in the public schools; (3) the English language is used in giving instruction; 4) a register of attendance is kept indicating every absence of each child from school for a half day or more. Ala. Code § 16-28-1(1)."

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:00 PM

Read it again. Church schools are exempted. That's why I bolded the part that says that church schools are exempted in my last post.

So the above poster is the one who is WRONG.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 03:57 PM

"I don't know how things are structured in the UK, but in the US, at least, schools that are privately owned and run are not subject to any kinds or monitoring or testing or any kind of government intervention at all."

I repeat "Wrong Carol'. Here is Alabama's listing. They are definitely subject to monitoring and government interference. Arkansas has government requirements for everything from scoliosis testing to flags in private schools. Even Alaska requires mandatory testing of certain grades in private schools.

It is important to read everything and not pick and choose what fits your statement.





Alabama
Registration/Licensing/Accreditation: All private schools, except church schools, must register annually on or before October 10 with the Alabama Department of Education and report on the number of students and instructors, enrollment, attendance, course of study, length of term, cost of tuition, funds, value of property, and the general condition of the school. Ala. Code § 16-1-11. The state superintendent of education furnishes the necessary forms for reporting. Ala. Code § 16-4-16.

"Church schools" are defined as schools offering "instruction in grades K-12, or any combination thereof including the kindergarten, elementary, or secondary level and are operated as a ministry of a local church, group of churches, denomination, and/or association of churches on a nonprofit basis which do not receive any state or federal funding." Ala. Code 16-28-1.

Licensing by the Alabama Department of Education is required annually prior to the operation of a private school. Ala. Code § 16-46-5. However, most private elementary and secondary schools would qualify for exemptions, as schools operated by "a parochial, denominational, or religious organization, and/or as a ministry of a local church or group of churches on a nonprofit basis" or schools operated by "a community, educational organization, or group of parents, organized as a nonprofit educational corporation with the expectation of establishing a more favorable environment for those in attendance." Ala. Code § 16-46-3. Exempted private schools may voluntarily request to be licensed without surety. Ala. Code § 16-46-3(d). Licensing is based on specific criteria, such as, the quality and content of curriculum, adequate space, equipment, instructional materials and personnel, recordkeeping, and financial stability. Ala. Code § 16-46-5(i)(1)-(7). Ala. Admin. Code r. 290-030-050.

By definition, a private school, but not a church school, holds a certificate issued by the state superintendent of education showing that the school conforms to the following requirements: (1) instruction is given by persons holding certificates issued by the state superintendent of education; (2) instruction is given in the several branches of study required to be taught in the public schools; (3) the English language is used in giving instruction; 4) a register of attendance is kept indicating every absence of each child from school for a half day or more. Ala. Code § 16-28-1(1).

Recordkeeping/Reports: The principal teacher of private and church schools must keep an attendance register showing the enrollment of the school and every absence of each enrolled child from school for a half day or more. Ala. Code § 16-28-8. The registry is admissible as evidence in compulsory attendance hearings. Ala. Code of Ala. 1975 § 16-28-23.

Private schools, i.e. a profit or nonprofit entity as opposed to publicly owned or operated schools, which cease operations shall place student academic attendance and financial aid records in the following repository: (1) if merged, consolidated, or change of ownership, in the continuing school; (2) if part of a system, organization, franchise, or church ministry, in the administrative office; (3) if without system support, with the local superintendent of the public county or city. Code of Ala. 1975 § 16-46-3(e).

At the end of the fifth day from the opening of the public school, the principal teacher of each private school, but not church school, must report to the local superintendent the names and addresses of all children age 7-16 enrolled; and thereafter, at least weekly the names of students absent without excuse. Code of Ala. 1975 § 16-28-7.

At church schools, enrollment and attendance must be reported to the local public school superintendent by the parent or guardian on a form provided by the superintendent. The administrator of the church school countersigns the enrollment form. If a child leaves the church school, the church school will notify the local public school superintendent, by prior consent of the parent or guardian. Ala. Code § 16-28-7.

Length of School Year/Day: Under the compulsory attendance law, children attending private schools, but not church schools, are required to attend "the entire length of the school term." Ala. Code § 16-28-3.

Instruction in English: Private schools, but not church schools, are required to use the English language in giving instruction. Ala. Code § 16-28-1(1).

Teacher Certification: Instruction at private schools, but not church schools, must be provided by persons holding certificates issued by the state superintendent of education. Ala. Code § 16-28-1 (1)a, (2).

Curriculum: Private schools, but not church schools, are required to offer instruction in "the several branches of study required to be taught in the public schools." Ala. Code § 16-28-1(1).

Private schools, but not church schools, must provide a physical education program which conforms to the program outlined by the Alabama Department of Education. Ala. Code § 16-40-1.

Health: A certificate of immunization or testing (as designated by the state health officer) is required prior to admittance to a private school. Ala. Code § 16-30-4.

No teacher or school administrator employed by a nonpublic school is excluded from participating in in-service teacher education institutes or curriculum development programs for drug abuse prevention provided under Chapter 41, Drug Abuse Education. Ala. Code § 16-41-5.

Safety: Alabama requires all private schools to conduct monthly fire drills and to have all doors and exits open out, and that all such doors and exits be unlocked during school hours. Ala. Code § 36-19-10.

Private school employers must check the sex crime records of job applicants or volunteers for positions having supervisory or disciplinary power over minors under 18 years of age. The Department of Public Safety will furnish the information to the requesting employer and may charge the employer a fee for the actual cost. Ala. Code § 26-20-1.

Private schools must fully meet the building code requirements unless the building was used for that purpose prior to the effective date of the code. Ala. Code § 41-9-163(c).

An additional penalty of 5 years incarceration, with no provision for probation, is imposed for the unlawful sale of a controlled substance on the campus of a private school or within a three-mile radius of the campus. Ala. Code § 13a-12-250.,

Transportation: A license tax or registration fee of $13.00 is imposed on motor buses owned by a church or a private school that are used only for the purposes of the institution. Ala. Code § 40-12-246 (d).

Home Schooling: Every child between the ages of 7 and 16 are required to attend a public school, private school, church school, or be instructed by a private tutor certified by the state of Alabama for the entire length of the school term in every scholastic subject. Parents who want to have their child instructed at home must either do so through a certified tutor or must qualify as a church school. Church schools offer instruction in grades K-12 or any combination thereof; are operated as a ministry of a local church or group of churches, denomination, and/or association of churches on a nonprofit basis; and do not receive any federal or state funding. Ala. Code §§ 16-28-1; 16-28-3. The enrollment and attendance of a child in a church school must be filed with the local public school superintendent by the parent or guardian on a form provided. Ala. Code § 16-28-7.

Public Aid for Private Schools/Private School Students: No money raised for the support of the public schools can be appropriated to or used for the support of any sectarian or denomination school. Alabama Constitution, Article 14, Section 263.

The Alabama state legislature is prohibited from taxing school property, real or personal. Alabama Constitution, Article 4, Section 91.

No teacher or school administrator employed by a nonpublic school is excluded from participating in in-service teacher education institutes or curriculum development programs for drug abuse prevention provided under Chapter 41, Drug Abuse Education. Ala. Code §16-41-5.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 03:34 PM

The person who posted the link about accreditation is wrong. It varies from state to state. From the link provided up above, the state of Maryland, for instance. Maryland's standards for home schooling environments are stricter than for private schools (although they had no required standards when I home schooled there around 1990)..

"Institutions operated by bona fide church organizations are exempt from the requirement to hold a Certificate of Approval from the Maryland State Board of Education. The head of the bona fide church organization must, however, submit to the State Department of Education acceptable evidence of the bona fide church organization legal authority status and certification of the legal authority?s assumption of responsibility for governing and operating the nonpublic school."

(Legal authority status is doesn't have anything to do with accreditation.)


And let's see... oh, I don't know... Alabama...

"Registration/Licensing/Accreditation: All private schools, except church schools, must register annually on or before October 10 with the Alabama Department of Education and report on the number of students and instructors, enrollment, attendance, course of study, length of term, cost of tuition, funds, value of property, and the general condition of the school. Ala. Code § 16-1-11. The state superintendent of education furnishes the necessary forms for reporting. Ala. Code § 16-4-16.

"Church schools" are defined as schools offering "instruction in grades K-12, or any combination thereof including the kindergarten, elementary, or secondary level and are operated as a ministry of a local church, group of churches, denomination, and/or association of churches on a nonprofit basis which do not receive any state or federal funding." Ala. Code 16-28-1.

Licensing by the Alabama Department of Education is required annually prior to the operation of a private school. Ala. Code § 16-46-5. However, most private elementary and secondary schools would qualify for exemptions, as schools operated by "a parochial, denominational, or religious organization, and/or as a ministry of a local church or group of churches on a nonprofit basis" or schools operated by "a community, educational organization, or group of parents, organized as a nonprofit educational corporation with the expectation of establishing a more favorable environment for those in attendance." Ala. Code § 16-46-3. Exempted private schools may voluntarily request to be licensed without surety. Ala. Code § 16-46-3(d). Licensing is based on specific criteria, such as, the quality and content of curriculum, adequate space, equipment, instructional materials and personnel, recordkeeping, and financial stability. Ala. Code § 16-46-5(i)(1)-(7). Ala. Admin. Code r. 290-030-050.

By definition, a private school, but not a church school, holds a certificate issued by the state superintendent of education showing that the school conforms to the following requirements: (1) instruction is given by persons holding certificates issued by the state superintendent of education; (2) instruction is given in the several branches of study required to be taught in the public schools; (3) the English language is used in giving instruction; 4) a register of attendance is kept indicating every absence of each child from school for a half day or more. Ala. Code § 16-28-1(1)."


Arkansas doesn't address the subject of accreditation at all. And its requirements for home schools are stricter than for private schools.


In some of the states in that link accreditation is not required for religious schools, and in some cases not for other kinds of private schools, either, but they do have curriculum requirements. Many don't mention anything about mandatory testing.

I haven't looked at all of them, but that's a sampling of schools that don't require accreditation (or have any other academically related requirements of private schools and/or religious schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 03:02 PM

Indeed you have Daisybell.

Well done!! And if yiu are ever at a folk festival and see a bookseller, it might be me! Please say hello!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: maeve
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:55 PM

Daisybell, you have been both helpful and interesting.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:42 PM

Thank you to everyone that's been supportive about this, I really only came to put my opinions on the situation out there and I hope they've been useful to some people. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: paula t
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:14 PM

As a teacher I do not totally disagree with home education , but it should not be seen merely as a "opt out" of a difficult situation.I think that home education can be a hugely beneficial thing for some children. However, I do believe that parents should equip their children with the skills they will need as adults. I think it incredibly unfair for parents to neglect the teaching of science, literacy ,maths etc to their children because of their own political views about life and society in general.As adults these people will wish to choose their own careers and will therefore be in competition with people who have qualifications and recognised skills.
Freedom of choice is restricted if someone does not have qualifications.No matter how unfair or "blinkered" this would seem to be.Parents have the responsibility to take this on board and help their children - whether the concept appeals or not. I have been incredibly frustrated on a number of occasions when trying to help children who have found school hard and have wanted to opt out.This frustration has not been with the child (I remember feeling that way myself on many occasions as a child. It is a very natural reaction to want to run away from difficulties.) My frustration and despair has been with those parents who have explained that their child doesn't need an education because they are "Going into the family business". This has often been accompanied by sentiments such as, "I haven't got any qualifications, but look where I am ".These parents have imposed their own insecurities onto their children.It is incredibly unfair. The child is a different person to the grown up. The child is a "clean slate" not a continuation of the parents bad experiences.It is wrong to limit a child's life chances by imposing a personal grudge on them.

Parents need to remember that their children are not able to make decisions yet about the path their adult life will take and thus what they need to learn.They need to be given the tools and the support to be someone new and the best they can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:10 PM

I have met Daisy's mum very briefly at two Folk Festivals and, although I knew she had a daughter, I have never had the pleasure of meeting her and had no idea of where they lived.

I'm sorry to see that some of Daisy's mum's replies to Lizzie are no longer on the thread; I thought that they were informative and courteous.

Earlier today I received a PM from Daisy's mum requesting me to ring and speak to her daughter who was confused and annoyed that Lizzie appeared to be questioning her authenticity as the author of her posts and to confirm that she really was the independant thinking young woman she claimed to be.

I chatted to Daisy and found her to be an articualte young woman.
We discussed her GCSEs which are structured very differently to the 10 I took a very long ago and I am convinced by the strength of her feelings and frankness that the posts really were 'all her own work'

I hope that this helps to dispel any misunderstanding that Daisy isn't exactly who and what she claims to be here and I hope that she can continue to contribute to other threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 02:10 PM

Wrong Carol:
http://www.ed.gov/pubs/RegPrivSchl/index.html

Schools are accredited and can lose their accredidation if they do not meet minimum standards.