BS: Vehicle buying tips

Subject: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:07 PM

I know there are lots of tips and experience Mudcatters can share regarding the subject matter. Here is one I just learned.

My 11 year old truck has been giving me grief. One thing after another with increasing frequency. After spending over $400 on Tuesday for a "bandage" to put off spending a lot more, I went to the Ford dealership to look at the inventory on Wednesday.

As I pulled into the truck lot, there was an empty space about 8 trucks down a line of about twenty trucks. On the far side of that space was my new truck... literally. The only difference between the truck I was driving and the truck in the lot was the year and more options. I looked at the price tag and grimaced. I drove on looking for sommat cheaper. Nope.

I left and called from home and simply asked for sales, even though I had chatted with two salemen in the past six months. A young man's voice answered my enquiry about the promotional discount on trucks. He gave me the scoop and asked what I was interested in. I told him about one truck that was a fair bit cheaper than "my truck" and explained why it was not suitable but also described "my truck" and said it was too fancy and expensive for me.

He asked me to stay on hold for a minute or two... then, he floored me. $X and maybe even a bit cheaper but that would require management approval. I stifled myself and casually asked if he would be at work tomorrow in case I wanted to test drive it.

I test drove it yesterday and asked for some final figures to consider. I asked if he would fill the gas tank. He said there was no way he could get approval for another penny less from a "call-in price". Never heard of it, me.

There it is. A "call-in price".

When you cold call them, they give you the bottom line, "get-them-in-the-door price and sell a unit".

I got about $3000 off what I would have gotten by presenting at the dealership. Nice to know!

Soooo.... got any tips?

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:22 PM

Yes. If it's what you want, if it's a great price, and IF you can afford it.
BUY IT !!

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:30 PM

If the salesman mumbles with his cohorts and they turn look at you and laugh, leave.

My dealer was giving away a ridiculously large gas grill. I didn't want it and asked what it would be worth towards the car. Got an extra $300 off.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:43 PM

Dicker, offer, turn away, dicker some more. Sooner or later you will get a good price. Look around other dealerships in your area, one may be hungry.
Check the internet and get an idea of what prices are elsewhere (but know what base delivery prices are to your area).
Some people here buy from dealers in small nearby towns where costs of doing business are lower, but dealer servicing requires driving there or local servicing with a dealership unhappy with the fact that you bought elsewhere just to save a few dollars.

Good luck with your new truck!
Regardless of make, all are well-built and competitive. It comes down to selecting the model that fits your needs and also is within your budget.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:45 PM

Well, the sticker price is always BS, and so is the "I gotta go consult with the sales manager" ploy. There are a number of sites out there, at least in the US, that claim that they can give you the actual dealer's cost so that you can use that in negotiations - there is a fee for that information (of course!). My bank (USAA) will negotiate on your behalf and claims that they can get the best possible price - I've never tried that, but my sister did and was very satisfied.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:06 PM

Oh... BTW... the business mgr tried to get me to finance the truck thru the Bank of Montreal. The dealership has a promotion where they pay the first month. He said, we give you a cheque for the first month and then, come month two, you pay it off and save almost that amount.

I said, well, if it's that good a deal, just take that off the purchase price now as I am paying you cash. Doesn't work that way. No can do. Sooooo... same deal apply to my bank? Nope.

Why not? Read the fine print. I did not... I just knew sommat was wrong with this guy trying to give me money but saying he couldn't give me money. Especially when he said, over and over, "It's YOUR decision."

I shoulda smiled profusely and looked around and then asked where the hidden camera was hidden.

It's that old "trust me" stuff, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:15 PM

Do not buy anything without spending the twenty bucks it takes to check the VIN number at CARFAX.COM. When we bought our mini-van, my Rog wanted to buy one from a private party. I refused until we checked it. Sure enough, it'd been in a few accidents and was much worse than the person told about. I found one at a dealer, we looked it up and we're still driving it 15+ years later with only the usual upkeep and usual repairs.

My mom was in her 80s when she bought her last car. She dickered back and forth, left, went back, dickered some more, as noted above, and at the end told them what HER bottom line was and not a penny more. They gave in and sold it to her. My brother still drives it and she passed on ten years ago.

Have it checked out by your fav. mechanic, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:19 PM

Yes, kat. Second hand... compression test is a no brainer. There are others, but I am sure they will be mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:20 PM

Oh, my, the old bank tie-in. It used to be easy to avoid that one- if the dickered price looks good, go to your bank and borrow the money, and pay the dealer in cash.

Moreover, your dealer seems to have little control over salesmen's actions. Better ones set limits to salesmen's prerogatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:33 PM

Q... I actually let a couple of minor costs slide even tho I had a good arguement why I shouldn't. No sense in pissing off they who hold the warranty service contract, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:46 PM

Yes, gnu, that warranty is important. It seems every vehicle has a recall or two, also the first few scheduled service checks can catch minor problems and correct them, and make fluid changes that are called for.
Large dealerships keep their Service department separate from the Sales, so whether the Sales department is happy or not is not important. Small dealerships may not have this separation.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:57 PM

Q... but ya never know, eh? And, the top dog makes money from sales. In the end, even tho I really had to pay close to $500 more than what I was told up front, it was a good deal for me, and I didn't piss anybody off.

As YOU are well aware, I have a tendency to shoot my mouth off and do just that. I am trying to cut back. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:14 PM

Naw, not you g; surely ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:42 PM

In Canada there is also CARPROOF....I believe CARFAX is more leaning toward the USA.

If it's used, check out the vehicle and year in Lemonaid. It lists most of the recalls and problems people have with that year and model. You don't even have to buy it....just look up the vehicle in a copy in book shop.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:00 PM

Now that you have the new truck, let's see if we can make you dissatisfied with it.
I was gonna say "Ya shoulda bought" a Cadillac Escalade EXT, the macho pick-up. But they dropped it.

Let's see if I can bring up a photo:
Escalade EXT

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:12 PM

Here's one from experience: never buy a car from someone on a council estate in Grimsby on a dark night.

Now why didn't I know that already?

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:24 PM

It's all bull, gn-zer... A dealer will not walk away from a deal if he's making money... Especially these days... Keep in mind that even after he sells you the truck the factory pays him a "hold back" which amounts to anywhere from $600 to $2000, depending on the unit...

You can believe me on this one... I come from a auto industry family and owned my own dealership for close to 15 years...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 07:01 PM

Bobert... I am on the shit end of the stick... they got the trucks. All I got is money. Now, they want money, but they are gonna get their money eventually. My job is to get their truck at the right time so as to minimize my loss of money. Said tip helped. As well as buying just before Kissmeass.

Q... $80k for a truck? At that price, I'll bet it has an alarm for alders. Hehehehehee. That is what I call a Yuppiemobile.

Well, I used to call it a Homobile, but, since I am tryin my damndest to NOT be so much of a redneck (Yes, Giok... I am TRYING.) I shant.

BTW... I'd like to be able to afford one, Q.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 07:24 PM

First of all, gn-zer, there are book out there that tells you not6 only what the dealer cost is but how much the dealer gets in "hold back"... If you can't find one at Books-aMillion then try the internet... Knowing what you are really dealing with gives you alot of power as the buyer... Yeah, this dealer may have the truck you want but sales aren't booming anywhere so he also wants to sell it to you... If yer happy with the price after finding out dealer cost and hold back then fine... If not, go on the innernet and find another dealer that has the same truck... BTW, all dealers are hooked up so if you call another dealer and he doesn't have exactly waht you are looking for then he can check all available inventories and do a DX (dealer excahnge) to get the truck you want... Lots of times another dealer will do a DX deal because he has the truck presold and doesn't have to put his money out until he has been paid (by you)...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 02:18 PM

RATS! Wish I had my camera with me at the dealership today. My new truck was parked next to an empty space and I parked my old truck next to it. Woulda been a GREAT pic... 1998 and 2010 with the same paint job, black over silver.

The old one looked nicer with the chrome wheels in a turned spindle fashion with holes. But the new one is shiney and doesn't have any Kent County Racin Stripes (tree scratches).... yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 02:23 PM

I can't park my 1995 Jeep Cherokee next to an Escalade or Navigator. It feels intimidated in their shadow.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 02:53 PM

Hmmm.

With the events of the last couple of years, if I were buying a truck I would have bought used. I can't speak for New Brunswick, but down here in bubba country, a lot of men who used to commute in pick ups have traded in for more wallet friendly vehicles. Lots of SUVs and Pickups in the lemon lots for good bargains.

Auto Trader on line and a one month membership in Carfax (unlimited lookups for 30 days) would be the way to go. Probably get a low mileage late model truck with a body as stripeless as an old lady's Camry for 1/3 to 1/2 the price of new.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 04:22 PM

I shall field JtS' comment for NB.... yes, there is that consideration, but, given the much smaller market and the fact that Moncton has been on such a growth curve despite "the events", there isn't a great number of of them. I checked it out, naturally.

Of course, there are always good deals to be had, but, given the fact that I could buy a brand new truck at 75% of the sticker price, case (almost) closed for me.

And, from my first post, it was the "same" truck... it was the same paint job... a sign from Henry.

There were also other considerations, but not for posting here.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 04:26 PM

Dicker and dicker some more! Beware of a charge that they call "etching"! Tell them to stick that one where it won't see the sun!

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 04:40 PM

Also forgo the painting of wavy flames down the sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 05:37 PM

Sandy... "Beware of a charge that they call "etching"! Tell them to stick that one where it won't see the sun!"

I said that if it was such a great idea, they should pay for it. Buddy said it's a standard charge. I said no thank you. He explained further. I said no thank you. He expl... I said no... thank you.

BTW... when dealing by phone, let them leave a message. I have a camcorder trained on my call display phone and I have a digital recorder.

I will receive a customer satisfaction survey from Ford. I will offer them the MP3 file of the message I was left regarding the box liner that I was charged for in the end deal. The salesman has repeatedly said it was a "miscommunication" and that his manager would not allow it. Absolute bullshit but I paid it as I wanted the deal. We'll see about that. And, we'll see about the $100 AC tax that was on the window sticker... they tacked on the price too.

Fact is, I have the truck. After they cash the cheque, and Ford asks me how I was treated... we'll see what happens. I MAY get an even better deal. Hahahahahaaa... yeah, right.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 06:08 PM

Canada Air conditioning excise taxes were brought in with WW2. Most wartime excises have been phased out except for liquor and tobacco, but the Canadian government imposes $100 AC excise tax per vehicle.

For automobiles, there are a variety of provincial and even city levies across Canada.

No sales tax in Alberta, which is a help with purchases.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 07:26 PM

Yup... $100 AC tax is right on the window sticker... so... I paid it twice... we'll see what happens.

Alberta... land of the big sky and no taxes and great helth care. I may move out west in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 08:11 PM

heheheheee... I wish the could do sommat about typos too.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 09:18 PM

The missing 'a' is not needed in order to pronounce the word, so don't worry about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 05:01 AM

Just read my email. From Dec 21 to Mar 1, Costco memebers (with active status as of Dec 20) get $1000 off most 2010 Fords and Lincolns.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 02:27 PM

I don't think that Ford Canada is going to over rule the dealer. Just be thankful they didn't sell you the undercoating.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:01 PM

I should confess that most of my cars and trucks were off one year leases.
One must be careful that use had not been heavy, but that is not difficult to find out about on local leases.

Used vehicles (see Jack the Sailor's post) are (or were when I lived there) cheaper in the States, especially in larger population centers. After I transferred to Canada, on business trips back to the lower 48, I would see bargains that made me drool.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:16 PM

Yeah, Used cars are a buyers market here, south of Virginia, the land of salt free roads.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:16 PM

No, they won't, JtS. But, somebody is either get a pat on the back or a boot up the...

IF I decide to do it.... let sleeping dealerships lie?

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:30 PM

$45 + 13% sales tax for a spare key.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: gnu
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:46 PM

Better than Chrysler... the key fob with the controls for panic, remote start, trunk, doors.... key programming programming.... about $300. That's what I was just told. A few months back, it was $360 for two keys. I guess the bailout is working for someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 06:43 PM

An interesting car buying experience:
http://forum.kijiji.ca/viewtopic.php?t=6764035&highlight=

Subject: RE: BS: Vehicle buying tips
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 08:29 PM

I wouldn't expect much from the factory rep, gn-zer... They will help ya' if the tranny goes out a thousand miles past warrenty if you serviced it according to their reccomendations but gettin' in the middle of a sales deal ain't their cup of tea...

Hope you like the new truck...

I'm with JtS on buying used... I just bought a used Toyota Tacoma 4X4 in Beuafort, South Carolina... No rust anywhere... And a decent price...

B~