BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 04:27 PM

I love the things, the feel of them, the elaborate cases and the history associated with great old pocket watches. One of the things that really presses my buttons is the technology. If you look inside one of them or get a book on how they were put together it is mind blowing to know each and every part was hand made by some craftsman in the 1800's. Rail Roads depended on them for the safety of their passengers. I read where the lever set on them was invented because the engineers watch accidentally changed when it was in his pocket because they were stem set .. A terrible accident occurred that killed many people so they put a small lever inside so you can set the time and it cannot be changed unless the lever is pulled out

A few weeks ago I bought a great old gold elgin 1892 from an estate sale for 25 dollars. Took it apart , cleaned it up .. been keeping flawless time ... Just gave it to my daughter .. I have a bunch of them. Every time I stumble on one I am like a little kid again watching the railroad trains go by ..

anyone else share my passion for these old gems.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 05:22 PM

Count me in old dude. I have two that belonged to my Father. Inexpensive but I still hope to have them running well some day. I have a new one - a Tissot - that my wife bought me for our tenth anniversary. I usually wear it to church on Sunday. And when I retired the folks in my office gave me a Waltham. But it still needs a little work.

I also love cufflinks and small pocket knives. And of course old guitars and mandolins. But you could have guessed that already.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 05:39 PM

I have a pair of silver and lapiz lazuli cufflinks which I bought at a car boot sale in the UK for £2...... made by Georg Jensen and worth somewhere between £150 and £200. I also have a small collection of fruit knives which are made of silver and mother of pearl.. mostly made between 1829 and 1920....... Have owned and sold on a few pocket watches over the years.. love anything antique or old which shows quality and the work of an artisan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 05:39 PM

A school buddy, Carl,in long ago days, carried cheap pocket watches instead of wearing a wrist jobbee. He walked in on a bunch of us in a dorm room, said something about his "new watch", and tossed it to one of the other guys; it disintegrated into a handful of parts; it was a discarded watch Carl had taken apart. So inspiration struck, and a bunch of the guys went up on the observation deck of the Hancock tower (Chicago). Carl would give the crowd time to change, then drop the thing and start bemoaning what had happened to "my grandfather's watch"; had all kinds of people clucking in sympathy and helping him pick up gears and screws.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 05:44 PM

Any real professional watchmakers still out there that can do complicated repairs on these? Anyone have any experiences pro or con?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 06:42 PM

Greg
yes there is a master Amish guy down the road from me ... the last total repair that was way beyond my skill cost me all of 70 dollars. There is a couple of guys on the net but they are quite expensive. A total rebuild about 260 dollars ... . I can help you out if you tell me what is wrong with it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 07:17 PM

My grandfather left me his Illinois 1917 model railroad watch. He bought it new when he signed on at the L&N in Louisville KY and had it until he retired in 1967. It had a cracked crystal and hadn't worked since I got it in about 1972, but I had it repaired by a Russian watchmaker about a year ago for about 150, and now have it in a shadowbox with a photo of a steam engine behind it. Keeps perfect time (when I wind it).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 07:31 PM

Oh the Illinois RR Watches were superb ..The kept such accurate time even my today's standards .. Wonderful heirloom for sure and such great family history also with it ...Thanks EJ

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:01 PM

Doesn't Spaw have an old railroad watch? His fathers or Grandfathers if I remember correctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:37 PM

I have several pocket watches certified for railroad use. Most are in good running order.

It is a time-consuming procedure to clean and adjust any mechanical timepiece. Unless one learns how and assembles the tools, expect to pay on the order of the quote olddude gave.

There are watch and clock clubs in most cities, most are affiliated with NAWCC (National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors). Membership is not cheap, but they have a good library and a fine journal.
Local chapters, conventions, etc. are all listed here:
NAWCC

Cracked crystals are generally replaced with plastic; otherwise prowl the watch shows looking for parts.

There is a big NAWCC national each year, the next in Overland Park Convention Center, Overland Park, Kansas, June 8-12, 2011. Many dealers and collectors gather at these conventions; the displays are excellent, and dealers have much of interest in their sales booths and tables. Tools and literature there as well. There are also regional conventions.

Several companies made watches to railroad standards; Illinois, Hamilton, Waltham, Hampden, Howard, Ball and others.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:00 PM

Wesley
we are two peas in a pot my friend. I have a box full of cuff links and I will buy a Remington pocket knife every time I see one. I bought a Remington RS 3333 circa 1927 boy scout knife for two bucks a month ago in a flea market ..wow that was a find for sure.

yesterday I picked up a Ulster Boy Scout knife circa 1950 for a couple of dollars in a yard sale .. and when I dress up ..

yup it is cuff links ... love em

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:20 PM

I'm always suprised when a store sells cufflinks but not frech cuffed shirts.

It sounds like I need to send you 20 bucks and have you start checking out the garage sales. Those were some pretty impressive deals.

If you want to double your money on those scout knives just let me know. And keep your eyes peeled for a good bowie knife or a ceramic jug I can blow....

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:29 PM

I do super well Wesley in the flea markets lately. I just seem to route around and find stuff. They have a big one every weekend about 5 miles from me .. lots of junk stuff but some real deals if you go through the boxes ... The elgin watch blew my mind, the guy said 25 bucks and I said sure thing ...didn't know it only needed a cleaning .. Then I found the Ulster scout pocket knife ... that was a pretty good picking for an hour or so for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:30 PM

I have my fathers old Waltham. I give it a wind and run every couple of months and it still keeps great time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:31 PM

Have you watched "American Pickers" and "Pawn Stars" on the History Channel?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:38 PM

Love those shows, been doing it for years and always just called it Junk collecting ... LOL

At the flea market every weekend there are rows of yard sales and house hold sales also along the same road ... loads of fun for sure ...

Sandy, I have several old Waltham's .. I carry my 1902 one around all the time and it still keeps incredible time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:40 PM

I am at the stage where I should get rid of things. But I will probably collect till I die. The kids can worry about disposal, the heck with it.

There is a de-clutter thread that has been going for some time- to me the idea is unhuman and inhuman as well.

Good old American stoneware jugs are pretty scarce now. I have a few. A couple of 5-gallon size, too heavy for blowers. Even better are those old apothecary glass jugs, the bulbous ones, about two-gallon size or so. I picked up a dark green one a while back at a household auction.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:54 PM

I cant compete with Railroad watches , but i DO have my dad's ex RAF pocket watch - NOT fancy , but it works ! There's a guy in Uxbridge who did a service on it for me , and NOT expensive .
I like a pocket watch on a chain AND cuff links when I am in Gigging Poseur Mode , though I do lean to modern Quartz action , rather than spring !

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 10:03 PM

The new ones Lead fingers still have all the charm of being a pocket watch .. I love em ... old and new

Wes
This is the sound out of the espana 1966 classical guitar I got for 30 bucks picking recently. Beautiful guitar all mahogany. Hey PM me your mailing address my friend, got something fer ya

espana classical 1966

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: BK Lick
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 10:09 PM

Utah Phillips's hope to be presented with a gold pocket watch on his retirement:
Utah's Modest(?) Proposal Regarding His Retirement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 04:04 AM

Just a quick step-in from a female - I've got 2 gold plated pocket watches: one my grandfather's and one my father in law's. I also have my great-grandfather's silver key-wound pocket watch, which works after some restoration in the 1970s. I can't remember the makers and the exact date of the silver one, because I have them all put away in storage boxes at the moment.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Zen
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 06:20 AM

I have a fine old English pocket watch from around 1770, and also an Omega pocket watch from 1938 which I use daily and which keeps perfect time. I prefer pocket watches to the encumbrance of a wristwatch. There are still experts around (though beginning to disappear) who can service and repair these and I've just had the mainspring replaced on the Omega.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:06 AM

Zen
wow, is your English one made by Dauber, if so it is worth a fortune like 20K plus ...

I love the Omega's, probably 17 Jeweled ... amazing accurate ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:09 AM

Andrea
take them out and wind them up once in awhile. When left idle for too long they start to seize up an quit working ... a good wind will never hurt them only help

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 11:58 AM

Don't over -wind, the key word is gentle, wind it slow and steady until you feel it tight .. it is relatively easy to break the main spring on an old watch ..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 01:03 PM

Dan, or Wesley: I'll sell you this one for best offer over $500.00.

IIRC, I paid a quarter for it years ago. It's got no crystal, and the stem don't turn, but it has worked in neat in a couple of still-life photos.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 01:15 PM

A thing of beauty is a joy forever; it's loveliness increases, it will never turn into nothingness. (Keats)

I had a gold Waltham RR watch that I just loved the feel of and I gave it to my Grandson. I told him if he pawns or sells it I will disown him.
Now, I wish I had kept it a bit longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 01:34 PM

This is actually the last thing I've done with that junk watch.

It was for a little contest that called for choosing several items from a given list to use an art piece. That's actually our niece, on her wedding day, although she wasn't really wearing a hat. The whole thing was in a shadow box, with the hand holding the watch pressed against the glass.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 03:07 PM

Dean
That is really cool ... great artwork

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 03:53 PM

Captain
that was a wonderful thing to do with it ... I plan on doing the same thing with my grandson ... My grandfather gave me his solid gold elgin that he bought in 1910 for 50 bucks .. a staggering sum at the time .. and it played music also. I lived with my grandparents. After he passed away my uncle came into my room when I was at school and took it, along with my rifles and shotguns and everything else my grandfather gave me ... never knew what happened to it .. probably my uncles kid hocked it for drugs ... but at least it did start a love affair for old pocket watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 04:06 PM

What you need Captain is an old Elgin with a Sea Captain on it ...
you gave me a mission now when I do my weekend picking or estate sales ... let me see what I can find

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:10 PM

Dan, please don't spend too much. Times are hard I know. Hell, I heard that it is so bad three guys got caught sneaking INTO Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:23 PM

I Love them - if you have some at affordable prices, I might be interested in one - I miss my granddad's old one... sigh...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:32 PM

Reverse migration-
Reminds me of the Fox family. Old grandfather Fox left the States and went to Mexico, made a fortune in wagons and transport. His grandson Vicente became president of Mexico; his autobiography is a good read.
--------------------------
My grandson will get the one with a beaver and Canadian Pacific Railway engraved on the movement. Always professionally cleaned, it is very accurate. I can't remember the date offhand but I think it is 1902. I have another engraved Canadian Time Service. My favorite to carry is a Hamilton 992B, at 16 size smaller than the older ones.
I also have the old 18 size (turnip) of a great grandfather, which I had cleaned a couple of years back. About 1870, only 7 jewels, but is a good timekeeper.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Neighmond
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:52 PM

I like working on pocket watches more than any of the new ones-it's nice to work on something that was actually meant to last.

My everyday one is an old 992-it'll put a Ro1ex to shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:02 PM

OMG   a 992 is one that I lust for ... you bet it will put a rolex to shame ... Awesome Watch !!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:25 PM

Any pictures you can offer us ?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:41 PM

Sure Wes
I will take some photo's

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 11:00 PM

Some 992b on Ebay. Some were made for military service during WW2; a couple on Ebay. Wartime models very expensive.
I think it is best to buy at a NAWCC show or at a club meet, then it can be looked at closely and there will be several guys around to give opinions, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Neighmond
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 01:21 AM

Mine is from 1905-one of the flashier movements they made at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 02:33 AM

Works of a Bunn Special Illinois like Grampa's.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 06:35 AM

I had always planned to pass my watch along to my grand son when I snuff it, but it looks like I'll be around longer than expected and I can't ask him to give it back until I croak!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 07:26 AM

With all this talk about old watches and cufflinks maybe it's also a good time to bring back the fedora!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 07:44 AM

LOL
hey Wes
that is the christmas gift my kids bought me. I wanted one when I play some blues at the coffee shop. Katie got me a dandy it is a Scala
but I only wear it during my blues set .. how funny is that you should mention it ... I always thought they were great ..

Holy Cow, I really am an OLD DUDE !!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 07:47 AM

Mudcat's DWDITTY does a great song called "Pocket Watch"

Love it

DwDitty Pocket Watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 07:53 AM

I also used to wear a black beret that I bought in NYC. I havn't seen it in a long time so I'm guessing it's lost. I hope to replace it this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 09:58 AM

The last thing I want to see is some guy in a black bra!

Oh, you said...

Never mind....

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 12:10 PM

So, does this mean that my spats are out dated?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 12:22 PM

Picked up a Stetson like Harry Trueman wore. Probably the ugliest Stetson ever produced by that company. My daughter sold it on Ebay.

Anyone interested in a patterned cashmere sport coat with a belt in back?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 04:57 PM

Q
now that is some image for sure

Hey I think a Harry Truman hat was pretty cool ... LOL can't be worse than my crocodile Dundee hat with the gator teeth in it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 06:16 PM

Checked some of my catalogues:
1901 T. Eaton & Co. (Canada)
Waltham, 21 jewel, Crescent Street-
14K gold-$59.50. Nickle-Silver- $25.50
Can. Pacific model of above- $27.50 in nickle-silver

1895 Montgomery Ward
Hampden Duebar Spec. Railway 23 jewel
14K gold-$64.15 Nickle-Silver-$43.16

1908 Sears Roebuck
Elgin 23 jewel Veritas
14K gold-$68.00 Nickle-Silver- $40.15

In 1908, clean and oil cost 50 cents; replacing a part never over $3.00.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 08:25 PM

"With all this talk about old watches and cufflinks maybe it's also a good time to bring back the fedora!"

I've now given up on Fedora - now I'm a Ubuntu user! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 09:33 PM

ubuntu version 10 is outstanding. just upgraded from version 9 last week

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: DonMeixner
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 10:21 PM

I have a Vacheron Geneve pocket watch, stem wind in hunt case. The crystal is perfect, the enameled face is clean with no damage, hand lettered and numbered. The back of the case has an etched horse running. The case is sterling wrapped with a gold binding.

My Dad bought it at an antique show in Buffalo NY from a shelf of watches that said "Any Watch this Shelf $25.00". so medealers are not very bright.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 10:36 PM

I have one old railroad watch--National from 1913. All my other watches are new. All except one are wind-up. All have 17 jewels except a dollar watch I have. I have to wear pocket watches as the metal causes me to breakout from prolonged contact.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Janie
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 11:26 PM

My Dad has the C&O railroad pocket watch that at some point was awarded to my grandfather during his tenure with the C&O, and also the pocket watch that belonged to his maternal grandfather, who died of typhoid fever in 1906, before he was 40 years old. Provided they are wound, they both still keep accurate time.

The best part is that when Dad brings them out to show, he starts telling stories - those of his own youth and those family stories that were told to him when he was a child.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: mouldy
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 05:22 AM

Back with cookie!

Thanks guys - yes, they will get wound when I have them unpacked again. The gold plated ones probably date from the early 1900s, and the 1920s/30s. I am half looking out for a Staffordshire flatback watch holder to display the silver one on, but it has to be just right. Once I get this place sold, and move, I'll start looking more.

Speaking of old hats - A couple of years ago, and newly widdered, I managed to get hold of a pristine c1870 widow's cotton bonnet from a costume dealer on a flea market, along with a black shawl. At some point I am going to get a grey dress and black apron made, and I already have a black petticoat. Hell, I'm qualified to wear it!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 01:12 PM

I have a silver civil war era pocket watch from the Hurlbert estate that was found in our farm house attic. Hurlbert trained horses by way of a bridaless system which is described in one of the first issues of Scientific American Magazine. His brother also managed to patent a telescope. The watch keeps time but I have lost the winding key that goes in the back of the watch.
Are these keys easy to find old dude?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 02:49 PM

Donuel,
I have seen many on ebay ... however I know Terry could probably sell you one. He is a mater watch maker and repair man

http://www.watchrepair.cc/pocketwatches.html

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 04:29 PM

When did they switch from key-wind to stem-wind? I do Civil War reenactments, and have two watches (both somewhat working). One of 'em is a stem-wind Elgin, and I suppose it is too new -- 1880 or so -- but the nameless key-winder is a pain to wind and to set, so my preference is the stem-winder.

When were stem-wind watches in common use (even if the Elgin company isn't the right date, the technology might be right -- who knows?)?

Thanks

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 04:37 PM

After my mother passed away last year (at 95), I found a pocket watch in the corner of a box with lots of other stuff. No glass although miraculously the hands were still present, fairly battered silver case, key wind. Didn't look particularly inspiring.

BUT I found it was my Grandpa's because he had had it engraved inside the case - G A Ratcliffe, Beeston, Notts. I also looked at the face - A W Watch Co, Waltham Mass. - and the serial number - 8085152. And here's the amazing thing - within 10 minutes of logging on to the Web, I had most of the watch's history, thanks to some public spirited guys in the States and the UK who don't mind putting their research online for the benefit of others.

Turned out to be an "1883" model made in 1896. The watch was shipped over to the UK and received a case made in Birmingham in 1898 with an "AB" hallmark. This was Alfred Bedford, who just happened to be the manager of Waltham's UK office.

I bit the bullet and took it to a repairer - he had to put a plastic glass in as diameters vary so much and it's very difficult to get hold of the right size over here. Apart from that, all the watch needed was a clean and off it went - not bad for 113 years old! My man even threw in a new key.

So now it sits on our piano on a little stand. I know a little bit more about the US industrial revolution. I've seen lots of pictures of Waltham's factory, the streetcars waiting outside, and the various departments inside. Mainly though, I now have a good memory of my Grandpa every time I look up. And I try to keep it wound!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:42 PM

Ed
does your Waltham look like this?
here is mine that I carry everyday .. keeps wonderful time

Waltham

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:50 PM

Key wind pocket watches like virtually all before were in use and popular up until the third quarter of the 19th century .. if you have one it is most likely before the 1870's ... most I saw were about 1850s. I had several and sold them to buy some other watches I liked.   Little by little I have sold off many of my pocket watches.. right now I have only 5 or so that are keepers for kids and grandkids .. mostly railroad or highly decorated Elgins and such.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:54 PM

OH in regard to Crystals, please get rid of all plastic. No kidding at least here in the states almost any Jeweler can order you a replacement glass crystal .. they are still made .. a good glass replacement never cost me more than 22 dollars US ... It is almost a sin to have plastic on such great old timepieces.

:-) Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:24 PM

I want my watch back! It is a Waltham RR watch, gold. Glass crystal. I'm amazed that the face still screws on and off and has never been damaged.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 08:17 PM

well captain some friend of yours may very well make that happen, that is one, thats pretty darn close

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 09:06 PM

A number of good watches were lever-set, and the face (crystal and mount) screwed off so that the lever (a very small arm) could be pulled out a bit, allowing one to put the hands at the correct time.
I have some, very fine railroad grade, that are set this way.

I have a great grandpaw's key wind, only 7 jewel, but it still runs well. It is a Waltham of the A. W. period. I had it cleaned and oiled when I discovered it in some family stuff. My grandmother had put a note with it identifying it as her father's.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 12:10 AM

I have an 1890-something Waltham I got on eBay. It runs but drops time erratically. When I took it to the shop, they couldn't get it to drop time at all. But when I carry it around, it loses chunks of time. It's not a stem-set. I don't dare open it myself; every time I try to do something like that I end up with a lapful of parts and a sad expression. I don't have the money for the professional clean and tune-up. Do any of you watch people know what might be wrong with it?

I love real clockwork, and the flywheel pocketwatch (anybody else read Longitude? if you love old watches, read it!) is a masterpiece of human ingenuity.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: mouldy
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 06:08 AM

My key-wound watch has been unearthed, and although I can't see a maker for the movement, it looks like the case is Chester 1873, and possibly the sponsors are Walker and Hall, if they were going then. It has a scratched service or repair date of 1890 inside the case. I have just gently wound it, and it's ticking away nicely, although I may get it serviced at some point.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 07:11 AM

Dan, I have VERY few friends who would do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 09:39 AM

Andrea
that watch used a pretty standard winder. I bet you can pick one up on ebay for about 10 dollars US

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 10:12 AM

Winder
gosh I used to have one ... I will dig around if I find it I will give it to you ... now where did I put it ... hmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 10:36 AM

Olddude, yes Grandpa's Waltham is pretty similar but it's key wind, not stem wind. It's "AW grade" which is standard without any frills, 7 jewels, Breguet spring balance, style KW. Must get a Flickr account then I can stick a picture up! Congratulations on keeping on wearing yours by the way - I would lose/break mine inside a couple of days!

You're quite right about glass being the proper thing. However, I know the repairer (he owns the jeweller's shop), the job was done at a very reasonable price, and I reasoned that if I didn't do something quickly it'd go back in the box and not get fixed. At some future date I can always get a real glass fitted but I think the surround may need fettling a bit.

I think it's wonderful that these things survive and still work (with some TLC). And - they were NOT just thrown away when they developed problems because very often they were the most valuable thing the owner possessed. Certainly so in the case of my poor old grandpa.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: mouldy
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 03:29 PM

I have 3 spare watch keys (a legacy from my mum in the 1960s when she was trying to get one to fit the watch). I'll gladly post them to anyone who wants them, as they've been in a box with a load of other random spare keys she accumulated in the 60s and 70s, when she was in the antiques trade, on the off-chance that she might need them one day.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 08:48 PM

Mouldy, is one of them keys particularly small? I have another pocket watch, from my wife's family, and it's a small one. Swiss (can't recall the make, but the company now makes $2000 watches, so...). The key for it is lots smaller than the key for the one I use in the Civil War Comrades band, so if it's a small key, I'd like to try it out.

I don't need the whole lot, but if there's a small 'un, I'd like it.

Bob Clayton
8401 Cedar St.
Silver Spring, MD 20910

Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 11:19 PM

All keys are small (sizes 1-3 in American nomenclature), I believe Swiss keywinds took the smallest but I don't have a Swiss keywind so not sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 11:08 AM

I would like to get an old 17 jewel, railroad-quality pocket watch with a good face good crystal, functional closing cover, that works over, under, sideways, down. Any ideas where to go for one, and what should I expect to pay? Thanks.

Saul
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: mouldy
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 11:58 AM

Bob, I've measured them across the narrowest bit in mm.
3mm, 3.5mm and 4mm with very similar looking holes of about 2mm. (One has a 6 on it - my watch's has a 2 on it). If you still want them, I'll send them.

By the way, Tennants Auctioneers of Leyburn have some gold watch keys (19 illustrated) estimate £600-800. Lot 578, Thurs 22 July.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 01:29 PM

Saul, closed face are uncomon. Lots of junk out there and recent garbage.
Best to go to a watch show and talk to dealers. A few of interest on Ebay, but mostly junk.
Elgin 15j 1889 pre-standards, hunter case, nice early, 160452639411, open for bids.
Elgin. Hunter case, 17j, needs service- 260629798018
Waltham 16 size Crescent Street 400084144983. Needs service. Open face but I like the 21j Crescent Street. I have one, a favorite.
Elgin 21j open face Raymond. Just serviced, a reputable dealer. Open for bids. -140423902967
Hamilton 992, 972- excellent RR watches. Some on offer. Look for dealer-service offers, cleaned recently.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: BK Lick
Date: 12 Jul 10 - 07:42 PM

I have a lovely old pocket watch that I used back when I was
holding forth in front of a classroom -- leaving it on the desk before
me, I could pace the presentation without looking at my wrist
repeatedly (and the face is large and clear enough to be read easily
at a distance). It's a 14 karat Elgin Crusader with a G.M. Wheeler
17 jewel movement just like the watch pictured here.

Using this lovely Elgin Watch Collectors Site I was able to look up
the serial number and thereby glean a deal of esoteric information about
the watch (e.g., the movement is a grade 452 made in 1926, and it ticks
five times per second). I think I may start using it again, if only on special
occasions.

—BK

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jul 10 - 10:57 PM

Not a pocket watch, but just dug out an old Ladies Rolex (marked Rolex 15 j on the ratchet wheel) The dial is that of a jeweler in Victoria, B. C., Shortt Hill & Duncan. By the design I am guessing that it was made shortly after 1908 when the name Rolex came into being.
I have been threatening to look into its history for years and now I am going to try. It runs, but needs cleaning; I also have to look for a Canadian watchmaker who will take it on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: open mike
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 10:00 AM

I wonder what ever happened to the project we were organizing for Utah
Phillips? I think some collections were taken up and we were trying to acquire a watch for Utah before he died. As I recall he passed away before we could find one and get it to him. I hope the funds that were collected were donated to his widow. Does anyone know?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: open mike
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 10:06 AM

here is the thread where we worked on getting a watch for Utah
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=109059

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 03:51 PM

Second try at posting this -- yesterday it froze and wouldn't go through.

Mouldy, I'll take the keys if you've a mind to send 'em to me. My address is above, but it's

Bob Clayton
8401 Cedar St.
Silver Spring, MD 20910

Let me know the postage and I'll reimburse you.

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: mouldy
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 04:18 AM

I'll get them posted this week, Bob. Don't worry about the postage! I take it you are in the US?


Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 07:50 AM

Proper old watchhes are beautiful, but battery watches are very handy. What I'd like is a pocket watch with a battery, to wear on a chain to go with my waistcoat.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 10:07 AM

Here is a crazy story but true.   I always wondered why my watch batteries all drained out (suppose to last 2 years) after a few months. One time on TV some researcher was talking about what people who had the near death experience have in common. One of the things she said was "they seem to drain batteries very fast on watches" ... I was pretty shocked to hear that.   Then I started to use my old pocket watch again since it is wind up ... Still will wear a wrist watch on occasion but no kidding .. a month or two months ... battery dead. So not only do I use my old pocket watch cause I love it ... it is functional for me over anything new

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: mouldy
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 10:31 AM

Bob, I've posted 'em. You should get them sometime within the next 7 days, at a guess.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 12:19 AM

Mouldy -- they arrived, and they are neat. Unfortunately, they are all too large, though one is close. I guess I'll have to actually seek out the proper key.

Sigh.

But the keys are, as I said, neat. I like the one from Boston especially.

What do I owe you for postage?

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 01:09 AM

Saul,
Railroad watches don't usually have covers but are open face. As for what you'd pay, a good round number would be $500. It would depend on how old it is, how broke it is, how rare it is, etc. You could buy an old broken one and have it fixed but it would depend on what's wrong with it. Just a new spring or something would be fixable based on your financial situation but for most people would be fixable. But extensive work is probably not worth it even if you could afford it. The trouble is, you buy it and then discover there's too much to fix and have to scrap the idea. Now you're stuck with an unfixable watch. A repaired watch could be over $1000 but I'll stick with $500 as a good round number to base your expectations on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: mouldy
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 04:24 AM

You don't owe me anything...it cost half a pint of beer. So if we ever meet up, it's your round!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 09:05 AM

I have had many friends say theirs runs but it runs a little slow or a little fast. That is normal. Don't forget in the back of the watch there is a small lever that needs to be moved to slow or fast .. Once you have it set right, the old watch will keep great time. My 1883 Railroad watch is dead nuts accurate but when I first got it , it ran a little slow, moved the lever a notch and it stands up to my modern digital watch day in and day out ... right on the money ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 09:27 AM

And the back of old open face watches unscrew by turning right to get to the lever for time adjustments, don't pry .. can't tell you how many of them I seen with the case all screwed up from someone trying to pry them open ... closed face watchs there is a small bulge on the back for opening with your thumbnail but open face watches the back unscrews ... it is so sad to see a watch that survived over a hundred years with the case all destroyed from trying to pry when it should be unscrewed

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Mark Ross
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 04:30 PM

Utah took an old watch case and put one of those cheap digital timepieces that had some sticky stuff on the back in the case(the kind you could leave up on a wall). He also had a pocket watch with Disney's ubiquitous rodent on the watch face, which Bruce claimed was from some Mickey Mouse Railroad.

My pocket watch, a Hamilton 992B with a stainless steel case, was handed down to me by old A.L.Nurse, the IWW organizer I worked with in Montana. Unfortunately, he was still on the ladder when the cops came.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 04:45 PM

If anyone sees a watch fob at a flea market I'm in the market for one.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 08:48 PM

I keep me eyes open fer ya kendall

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 09:39 PM

Lots of new watch fobs on Ebay, a few good oldies, but I don't know what they will end up selling for.

Be careful, some so-called antique fobs, esp. tractors, etc. are repros of the last 10-50 years.

I have a grandfather's Elks Club Elk tooth I should put on a chain.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,oldude
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 10:15 PM

in this life, there are watches and then there is the 992b .. put it this way, if you took every other watch past and present .. well they would not be a 992b. nothing before or after can match it. it was and still is a standard no one else ever came close to.

i will find one that is affordable someday oh yes

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: BK Lick
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 11:57 PM

Olddude HE says

And the back of old open face watches unscrew by turning right to get to the lever for time adjustments, don't pry

That ain't necessarily so. Here are a coupla good pages on opening watch cases:
Opening Pocket Watch Cases
How To Open a Watch Case

And here's a good page on watch repair in general:
What You Need To Know About Watch Repair

—BK

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 07:46 AM

BK is correct .. but in general what I said is nearly always the way it is. I have seen very few that you pry but yes there are those that you do ... but a great idea is -when it doubt check it out first- or you ruin your case. I just have seen way too many in my life where people immediately pry and didn't unscrew

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 10:18 AM

Dan,
I really feel bad about this. Last summer, while Jacqui and I were yard saling, I bought a box of old watch parts for $17. Turns out some of it was silver and gold. I sold it piece meal on Ebay for more that $400. One buyer sent me an additional $20 - shocked at what he found in the lot I sent him.
Had I known you love old watches I would gladly have let you have your choice.
Next time.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 10:28 AM

Wow, it happens Mary ... I am sure the guy was thrilled. Lots of times people will yard sale an old pocket watch because it doesn't work. Most of the time the fix is a good cleaning and oil job .. sometimes it is a simple spring .. Serious problems get really expensive unless you can find an Amish guy like I know who is a master and very inexpensive.   But many of the cases were gold plated or solid gold or silver ..   I have seen just a watch case go for a thousand dollars but that was a very special case and was gold ... Parts are also a big bonus. It is so hard to find parts ... Many people don't work on New York Standard Watch Company movements because the company burned in the early 1900's I guess and all the records were destroyed. I have several that run fine but it they break ... zowie it will be expensive to fix .. I don't use them at all because I could never get the parts for them. Elgin, parts can be found anywhere as with most railroad grade watches ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:41 AM

There were about fifteen antique tins filled with parts, some in original envelopes and papers. Many 18K gold. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:45 AM

THANKS Dan!

How is the comedy troupe doing?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:51 AM

Here is what I have...

various

The one on the left was my grandfather's smallish Seth Thomas. He died in 1930. It still runs, but not very long and probably needs tinkering. The one at top is an Elgin...unknown date & origin, and does not run. Below it is an empty case which unscrews....and on the right is something I never understood. It is just a glass 'form' in the shape of a watch. Anyone know what this is called?

Here is a closer view of the Seth Thomas (in original box). It has the nice design on the case, and his initials in the inside back.

Any general opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 01:14 PM

My old Elgin runs as long as it is lying flat but if I put it in my pocket is stops. Cleaning?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 01:33 PM

Ahhh
simple cleaning .. nothing more kendall ... is their a Jeweler near you ..?   Had my jeweler clean my Hampton .. cost me 10 bucks
ran perfect

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 03:58 PM

I'll cast about for a jeweler.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 03:59 PM

A great grandfather's watch (1881) has a case with small ears(?)- don't know what they would be called- so that the front opens easily to get at the lever for setting, and the back also, plus inner cover over the movement that requires a thumbnail to open. It is coin silver. A heavy case.
I have a 992b, trim and light compared to some old ones, but I also like a Crescent Street in hunter case, or my Waltham Canadian Pacific (so labeled, with a beaver on the movement) in swing case. All are very accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 04:13 PM

I will take care of it captain, no problem I should have done that in the first place ... ya got my address

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 04:15 PM

Q got a picture, I am trying to place what that would be. Sounds cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 09:39 PM

That old one with ears on the case is off for service. 1988 was the last time it was cleaned and iled.
I wish I had scanned it- but now that you mentioned 'picture', I think I will scan my watches for a record.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 09:57 PM

That eared case is labeled Blauer Coin, a small outline star with a 4 inside of it, and a serial number.
And I found a picture, poor, of a case offered on Ebay.
350313327653.
Take a look before the offering is pulled; Offered at $110.49. Scroll way down, there is another picture.

Not as nice as the case on mine, but shows what the ears look like.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 10:56 PM

Did anyone read my post above? I was hoping for some direction in learning about those items.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 10:58 PM

Q
saw the one on ebay, what a beauty you have ... very cool ... I don't think I ever saw a case like that ... pretty unique and special I think

neat watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:11 PM

Bill D, put Seth Thomas watches in google, and some information comes up, including a link that gets a list of serial nos. and the dates (1885-1914). Not a common watch. Only seen one or two.

The "glass thing" looks like a watch but I have no idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 08:39 AM

Seth Thomas watches were superb. They were also expensive in their time. I too have only seen one or two of them. They were most noted for their desk clocks and such and I have seen many Seth Thomas wall clocks but not their pocket watch line. Most I think are pretty rare since Q and I have only seen a couple. Sure check it out ... you should be able to find out when it was made

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 10:33 AM

Utah took an old watch case and put one of those cheap digital timepieces that had some sticky stuff on the back in the case(the kind you could leave up on a wall). He also had a pocket watch with Disney's ubiquitous rodent on the watch face,

Clearly thinking the same waow where can I find an old watch case...

They still used to sell cheap pocket watches when I was a kid. Ingersoll I seem to remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 01:01 PM

Old "dollar" watches show up at flea markets.
I only have one, which has 'Alberta' as the maker's name on the face. I bought it because currently I live in the province of Alberta (watch made in States, I have forgotten where). It doesn't run.
If you can buy cheap and re-use the case as you suggest, all to the good because, unless they are from the very start of a line like Ingersoll, or are something like an early Micky Mouse, they are not worth repairing and there is no collector interest.

Old cases are often worth quite a bit since they are hard to find in good condition. Since many watch movements were sold separate from the case, any watchmaker can transfer old watch movements to a different case- in other words, one could transfer from a nickel-silver to a gold case when one saved up the money.
Railroad men often preferred a heavy nickel silver case to a gold case because it stood up to wear better.

Used to have a book listing values of watches, but long out-of-date. Only a guide, many variables affect the value. I am ignorant on Seth Thomas, except that, like olddude, I know that they had a good reputation. If there is a watch club near you, someone there may have the book, or know something about Seth Thomas.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 05:39 PM

Proper professional repair of a watch, c. 1870s, one I am considering getting restored.

Problems-
Balance mechanism. Lower balance pivot is bent and mis-shaped. The pivot was reduced in size at some time. New balance staff required to fit the jeweled holes correctly.
Roller jewel of the watch replaced with a crudely filed brass pin. Should be replaced with the correct ruby impulse jewel.
Needs clean, oil and adjust.
Repair estimate:
Clean, oil, adjust-   $325.00
Mainspring service-    60.00
Replace balance staff- 100.00
Install roller jewel-   75.00
Shipping, insurance-    20.00
Total-                      $580.00

This will not be uncommon for an old watch that has been serviced several times by repairmen lacking proper equipment and parts. Also owners usually want the watch repaired quickly, they will not wait for the repairman to get proper parts.

The watch would run with the jerry-built repairs, but not smoothly and accurately. If one wishes proper restoration, expect to pay for it.
A full clean, oil and adjust requires complete dis-assembly of the watch. The $325 cost is usual.
A repair-wait time may be several months if a known restorer is selected.

These costs should be considered when buying a watch from an unknown seller. The watch may run but not correctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 06:30 PM

Q
your estimate is absolutely correct. However, I have a friend who is a Jeweler and charges me almost nothing for clean and oil. And he is a collector himself and knows what he is doing.   an estimate on one of my 1880 watches came in a 450 dollars from the web.. the master Amish guy who is local rebuilt the entire thing ... total cost to me 80 dollars ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 06:44 PM

Q
next time ya need an expensive rebuild check with me my friend first. now he ain't quick .. figure you will be without it 2 months or so .. but he is good and normally like I said around 80 to 100 dollars US

For the Amish, these things are their watches .. they don't use anything else and they keep them running and have parts saved .. You also cannot ever outbid one of them in an auction .. they always nail them and for good reason .. they use them. They never bid on elaborate ones but the old standard workhorses ... Oh boy .. whatever it takes

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 10:02 PM

I have a couple (or three) more. Will he redo old ladies watches, c. 1900-1910?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Jul 10 - 10:28 AM

Q
I will ask, gotta take an old Elgin to him for a friend .. while I am there I will ask him. Do you have any Amish near you?   If so you may want to ask around. Those folks are very serious about their watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 10 - 01:22 PM

The Hutterites are the predominant Anabaptist group here. We have friends that are members of one of the colonies. They have the best in farm machinery, computer-controlled animal houses, homes with the latest in heating (underfloor circulating fluid), and the latest trucks and 'taxi' service to the City for medical services, etc.

They are good mechanics and wood-workers, make their own clothes, have a communal kitchen and mess hall and refuse television, movies and all that stuff (they sneak off to non-Hutterite farms to partake of these sins).

Don't give a damn about watches, however. Timex is the usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 02:10 PM

Digression, but might be of interest.
The Smithsonian Magazine carries advs. for a company called Stauer, which sells cheap watches and jewelry.
On impulse I bought an automatic wristwatch, with 27 jewels, an automatic, for $99.00.
The watch has date, day and month dials, and a back window to expose the automatic winder.
It is made in China.
It seems to work well; very atractive but a little thick and clunky, seems to be good value for the money.

Knowing Chinese industry, I think it won't be long before their jeweled watches come down a bit more in price and displace Timex, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 09:24 PM

Q
heck a cheap automatic would be perfect for me. I drain batteries like a short in an old car ... I just put a new battery in my Remington watch just for a test. Been wearing it for 4 days now ... dollars to donuts it will be dead in a month ... gotta do an experiment again one more time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 09:29 PM

I was looking at my 1888 columbia gold pocket watch today - New York standard watch company ... and ... "I dropped it"   nothing happen .. but that was an OH CRAP moment. You cannot find parts for those guys anywhere ... zowie that would be expensive ... it is back in the case again ... givin it to my grand kid ... My daughter Katie will take better care of it then me until he is old enough to appreciate what it is .. Lever set, solid gold hunter case ... it is a beauty and keeps really good time. New York Standards were not known for their quality even when they were new .. fortunate to have one of their better ones

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 10:17 PM

I see that Oris has the Hamilton name, some automatic and some quartz, about $500 to $1000 on their website.
A far cry from the 992b.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 12:23 PM

Nothing today, even with the modern technology would match a mechanical watch like the 992B ...

Big reason is the craftsmanship and the years of experience one needed to even work on that watch ...Hamilton only hired master watchmakers. That watch was military issue. I am sure when it came to d-day the generals, on down were using that watch to coordinate their attacks

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 01:26 PM

I have a 17j Hamilton pocket watch, WW2 Navy. There also was a 21 jewel, very desirable to collectors of Navy memorabilia, hence expensive if one can find it. Never seen it. I don't know the movement(s), I'll have to look inside mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 03:32 PM

I don't know why I'm drawn to old things; past life? nostalgia? Old cars, mature women, 16 year old Glen Fiddich.
I'm very tactile and I love the feel of old pocket watches; they have a certain panache' that no Rolex can match.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 05:58 PM

Captain yours is now in fine hands, Rick got it and will fix the old girl like new.

Q
My uncle was a WWII fighter pilot, Distinguished flying cross .. Ace
he only carried the 992B in his missions. He said it was the only watch that you literally could bet your life on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 06:32 PM

Prince Daniel. Has a

ring to it, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 06:37 PM

Your old girl was right on the money for 2 days. First words out of Ricks mouth was "who the hell put that crystal on that watch, it is wrong"   He ordered the right one and I told him polish her up ..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 08:40 PM

Q
I saw one of the 21 jeweled ones in great shape go for 800 bucks . They were incredible

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 08:43 PM

My 1883 Hampton RR is so dead nuts accurate I cannot believe it. You may not believe me but I set the thing to a modern battery wrist watch and it matches it minute for minute ... I been winding it twice a day wake up in the morning and check it ... spot on ... when I carry it .. spot on ... what anything that is made today would work so well for so many years ...
my goodness they built things in the past

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 08:49 PM

sorry it is hampden
can't type

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jul 10 - 12:38 AM

Value will always be measured in pleasure, not money.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jul 10 - 04:05 AM

I like the Elgin because it fits into modern watch pockets whereas the old fat RR watch couldn't

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 09:32 PM

AAAGH ... I was so close on the bid for the 992-B on ebay. 1 buck I lost it for 1 buck !!... It was a railroad special also .. crap .. the price was one that I could afford also .. not one of the 500 dollar deals you see all the time .. It closed at 207 .. man what a deal for someone .. should have went higher but who knows what the other guy actually bid .. could be I would have still lost

I went to an auction Saturday, I got a mint I mean mint 1913 Elgin rolled gold case beautiful scroll work .. just serviced .. perfect .. perfect time ..

78 bucks and worth every cent ..

going to put it away for my grandson .. That was very cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM

olddude, if you are sure of the condition of the $500 watch, just remember that a $200 one on Ebay is likely to cost you another $300 to service.

But take a look at 230516921786. Canadian 24 hr dial(not military).
Essentially like mine, but case of mine is Fortune gold-filled, made in Canada. I can't tell where the case on this offer was made.
At one time, however, there were several companies in Canada making cases, some of which were used in the States.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 04:19 PM

Looks like about $250 is the take charge bid for 992b on the offers that don't have a high price posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 05:20 PM

Thats a dandy Q, I am going to try and snipe it... the one for 500 I seriously looked at it ... after I wound it I had to shake it to get it started ... tells me something is going on it ... I walked away

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 05:29 PM

Q
I will post ya a picture of this 1913 Elgin, Absolutely beautiful and there is a certificate of service 4 months ago. Case is rolled gold high scroll work. Mint condition watch . Keeping perfect time .. made one heck of a deal on it. They brought it out at the end of the auction and there was only a couple of people left. I was very fortunate .. didn't understand why they did that unless they just found it in the estate and dragged it out. Either way, glad I nailed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 05:54 PM

Right, if you had to shake it, the least it needs is cleaning, but could be something serious.
Yes, I would like to see the Elgin.
I have two Elgins, my great-grandfather's which I mentioned before, and is off for repair, and one in a gold-filled Hunter case (marked Rambler), 16 size, 1894 date, lever set, model 3, but only 11 jewels. Runs well. My mother got it from a neighbor, years ago.
Just dug it out and wound it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 06:44 PM

I love the Elgins .. those old Elgin railroad watches were something special also

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 08:55 PM

Should have added that the 1894 Elgin hunter is a sidewinder. Never really thought about that before.
Wouldn't mind having one of those old 21j Raymonds, but my wife says no.

What model is the Elgin you picked up?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 09:13 PM

It is a GRADE 386, 17 JEWELS, SER # 17,542,380 , CIRCA 1913. MODEL 6

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 09:34 PM

Nice one!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 09:39 PM

Q
   jump on ebay and nail yourself one of the Russian Railroad watches from
Molniya
No kidding those things are incredibly accurate 18 Jeweled and you can get one under 30 bucks. The were built to handle a drop off a building. Boy they built them. For carry purposes and don't want to mess up a great old antique watch these things are amazing. Just try typing Russian pocket watch in the search .. the railroad ones will come up.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 09:54 PM

Q
this is the one you want, I bought from this guy in the Ukraine, it takes a while to get it but wow

russian railroad watch


and sorry the company name is MOLNIA

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 10:01 PM

I don't doubt that they are good. The new Chinese watches may be even better. I am wearing a 27 jewel automatic with month, day and date functions, an attractive watch that keeps excellent time. Retail $98, but I see some on Ebay that go for half that.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 10:18 PM

Good point Q. This was in regard to a carry pocket watch if you or anyone on this thread wanted a great old pocket watch at a small cost. but no doubt the automatic you talked about has my interest.   Right now I am wearing this old Louis automatic. Been keeping amazing good time. My buddie Garry just gave me a very old Croton automatic that was being scrapped at the end of an estate sale. he bought it for me for a couple of bucks. Needs a new watch band but seems to work just fine

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 10:50 PM

Just wound up another, Waltham 1919 17 j (good, not great watch), gold fill? hunter case (number only), fine concentric pattern on case, runs well.
I should wind my watches more often.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 11:03 PM

Good Idea, I didn't wind one of my Elgins for quite some time. It use to be right on the money but now it runs slow and stops. Cleaning time but I don't think it is good for them not to run for a long time. I could be wrong ... I think at least a couple times a year they should be wound up and left to wind down just to keep everything free and moving

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 07:00 PM

Hey Q
here are my two latest. The first is the model 6, 1913 17 Jeweled.
The second is a model 616 Circa 1943 17 Jeweled ... both elgins and both in perfect running condition.

1913 Elgin model 6

1943 Elgin model 616

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 08:09 PM

The 616 was Elgin's move to parity the 992. Even the case is similar with the bar over the crown. It is a fine watch but not even close to a 992. Elgin also came up with a 21 Jeweled version that one will go toe to toe for the most part with a 992, however, the 992 holds up better I think and so do many others. Mine is a Model 616 17 jewel, 6 adjustments, pendant set, 27,000 made.



Great Article by Bob Sharp

The Model 616 is one of a family of six 16-Size watches made by Elgin from the mid-?40s through the early to mod-?50s. This family of watches was Elgin?s last series of U.S.-made 16-Size watches. The models in this range are characterized by a number of shared parts and a common overall ?architecture.? They all use pressed-in jewels on the plates, an uncut balance wheel with a hairspring of an Elinvar-type alloy, and a fairly simple wide damascening pattern. They have the look of a cost-optimized design and as though they were designed for a higher level of automation (or lower level of highly skilled labor) in assemply.

All six models in this group were cased and timed at the factory and the case should say this on the inside of the back. Half a dozen or more case styles were used in yellow gold-fill, rolled gold plate and stainless steel. In general, the lesser watches used the RGP cases although the top Model 571 was cased in this style for export to Canada ? probably to reduce duty. The stainless case also seems most commonly used on the 571 model movement. In any event, any of these cases will accommodate any of the movements (provision for the setting lever, where necessary, being the only caveat). The cases are unique to these models because the watches use a set-screw to retain the winding stem in the movement rather than in the sleeve of the case. The cases all should also have a semi-circular cut-out on the inner perimeter on the movement side. This is to clear the regulator adjustment screw which has its head on the outboard side, just the opposite of previous Elgin experience.

All of the watches should also have single sunk dials (faux single sunk on later models, by means of a lathe cut circle around the seconds bit ? cost cutting?). On all but the very earliest of these dials, there should be a stylized ?dp? trademark to signify Elgin?s use of their ?DuraPower? mainspring, allegedly unbreakable. Two styles of dial were common on all five of the lower grades: bold boxcar Arabic numerals or Montgomery numeric dials. The top model (571 B.W. Raymond) used variations on these two schemes, but usually with the marking ?B. W. Raymond? on the dial as well. Some 24-hour dials also exist as used in Canadian applications.

Finally, on to the details of the individual models/movements. As you will see, your Model 616 is relatively uncommon. That?s not to say anything about its value. As you discovered, they are around to be found. But as a less common model in this set, it can be difficult to find one in very good condition, particularly since many of the 616 came in the quick-to-wear rolled gold plated cases (and that still doesn?t necessarily mean that it?s valuable, just depends on who wants one).

Model 571 B. W. Raymond 21 jewels, 8 (some marked as 9) adjustments, lever set, approximately 87,000 made. This model is the top of the food chain in this group. It was a railroad grade/railroad approved model.

Model 572, 19 jewel, 5 adjustments, lever set, 18,000 were made.

Model 573, 17 jewel, 5 adjustments, lever set, 51,000 made.

Model 574, 17 jewel, 5 adjustments, pendant set, 49,000 made.

Model 575, 15 jewel, 4 adjustments, pendant set, 57,000 made.


As noted, only the 21-jewel B. W. Raymond Model 571 was a true railroad grade/ railroad approved watch. I have seen some of the others advertised recently as ?streetcar conductor?s watches? or similar claims. I don?t know the validity of these claims.

As far as the matter of adjustments is concerned, I believe that Elgin was indulging in a bit of marketing excess when they rated the watches. Thanks to the hairspring and better quality mainsprings, they were all probably inherently adjusted to temperature and isochronism. That means three possible adjustments were ?gimmies? ? isochronism and temperature (heat and cold). Few other watchmakers (apart from Waltham on the later 23-jewel Vanguards) counted such adjustments when the movements were marked. However, considering that the 571 B. W. Raymond starts with a claimed 8 or 9 adjustments, it stands to reason that the lesser models probably included the three intrinsic adjustments in the total marked on their movements. As a result, to make an apples-to-apples comparison with the markings traditionally used on other brands of watches, these models should probably be ?discounted? by 3 adjustments to yield an equivalent specification.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 08:55 PM

Hey, Dan; how about this one?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 09:03 PM

I want that one Dean

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 10:35 PM

In the 1880s a jeweler named Spitz installed a free-standing clock on the sidewalk outside his shop, Santa Fe, NM. I saw in the online paper that it has just been repaired and was in operation again. Don't know who has it now, but the jeweler died many years ago. The clock is being installed again on the Santa Fe Plaza.
The brass workings weigh 45 pounds, and fit inside a cast iron free-standing case. It is a windup clock.
The clocksmith said it was trying to rig a ship inside a wastebasket.
(Don't people still rig model ships inside bottles?).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 08:15 AM

For my birthday tomorrow. My kids got together unknown to me. They sent me a mint Hamilton 992-B railroad watch. Perfect shape ... I am speechless!! I set it yesterday to my cell phone time. Ran all night and it is dead nuts on.

I don't even know how they found out it was the one I wanted for years. Never dropped a hint. Maybe my wife told them ...

speechless

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 12:56 PM

Enjoy!
A great watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 01:18 PM

Q
I have a Hamilton 940 21 Jeweled. It belonged to a guy who's granpa worked on the B+O RR. The case is all worn, lots of brassing. The original dial was replaced in 1920's with a metal dial, the old watch fob is all dirty from years of use. I bought it a month ago for 60 bucks. I been using it daily ... I set it to my cell phone and no kidding it has not lost anything, right on .. man these Hamilton's were something special. This 940 was made in 1905. I am sure it has not been serviced in forever but boy does is run. This 992 is amazing ... it is absolutely mint. I doubt it was carried much at all. I probably won't carry it except for some very special occasions. I would cry it I damaged this 992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 08:25 PM

I have a 940, from 1901-1902, labeled 'Special' on the bridge; not many of these made. Runs accurately. Should be cleaned, however.
940s are excellent watches, but at 18 size, a bit larger and heavier than the 992b.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 02:45 PM

wow got this for my birthday from an NFL coach buddie ...first My daughter got me my 992B and then this shows up from the coach .. wow

1903 Elgin

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 02:53 PM

My Grandpa, my Dad's dad, was a quiet ol' chap. I only have memories of him being very, very old...but one Sunday a month he'd come over for Sunday dinner, with my Dad's twin brother, Uncle Gray, and his wife, Auntie Connie. Grandpa would sit there looking a bit awkward, very formerly dressed in a his three piece suit...but he'd start to thaw a little when my brother and I used to beg him to show us his pocket watch. Out it would come, slowly, slowly, the chain like a long silver ribbon...and he'd open it up for us, as we'd sit and gaze at the face..enraptured. It was really prettily engraved on the case too..I used to love to hold it close, listen to it ticking, ticktockticktock..

My brother has it now, I think..

Grandpa was in his 90's back then..and it must have been about 40 years back..

Old watch..old story...old memories..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 02:59 PM

forgot to post a pic of the 992b the kids got me holy cow I made out this year bigtime

992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 05:33 PM

Well I finally found the mate to my 992B, a 1919 992 21 Jeweled beauty ... do you have one of them Q ? they had a 5 lever adjustment instead of the 6 it is the father of the 992b. got to get it serviced ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 02:20 PM

No 992 (just my b) but a fine 945 Special, 21j, 1902 date.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 02:38 PM

Dang a 945 ... awesome watch ... whoooo been looking for one of those also but no hurry ... so far my Hamilton collection is a 940 ... I carry it a lot even though it is size 18, the 992B mint and the 992 mint. I made a total steal on the 992 ... Jeweler buddie said no need for service, it is perfect ... that's cool ... saved me 50 bucks. Now my site are a 992L yup ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 06:26 PM

Oh, my! You definitely have caught the Hamilton bug.

A fellow in town here, former railroader, has dozens of Hamiltons, collected over many years.
They were wrecking a jail in a small town near here, and he bought one of the cells, which he installed in his house. Safe storage!.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 06:40 PM

I saw a wwII Hamilton Ships clock 1942 for the bridge all brass, windup , amazing on ebay. No nothing I could afford but wow was it pretty 31 Jewels ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 04:29 PM

My new daily carry watch, This is a hamilton 992   21 jeweled lever set railroad watch. The 992 was certified for use on every railroad in the country. I had it fully serviced adjusted to 5 positions. This was the forerunner to the 992B which I don't carry daily cause I am afraid of breaking it.

Incredible how accurate these old watches are

hamilton 992

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 07:22 PM

I was avoiding opening this thread because my partner mends and restores clocks and watches (and musical boxes) for a living, but I thought Kendall's post at 12.38 on 28 July pretty well summed up why people want their clocks and watches mended and repaired.

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 07:42 PM

My 80 year old Pocket Ben is ticking away and keeping very good time.
Herga Kitty, I have an old Elgin pocket watch which refuses to run. I would love to have it repaired but I'm afraid some ham handed clod will either break it or lose it.
I do love old RR watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 08:30 PM

Good repair is expensive, as noted previously.
For estimate, see Renaissance Watch Repair- email PocketWatchRepair.com

Estimate not refundable, but reasonable. Six-8 month repair time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 07:33 PM

old dude! Dan, I got My Dad's old railroad watch out from under the glass bell and here are the particulars: It is an Illinois #220808 which puts it post Civil War, somewhere in the 1870's I believe. It's a key winder with a simple metal case and a "1" over "A" engraved on the inside case door. It also has a personal engraving very lightyly done on the same peice. It is in very good to execellent condition and keeps excelllent time, provided, of course, that you keep it wound! The key/wrench was also to be used to set the hand positions and the nut is scarred some but, remarkably the face has no damage. It is my understanding that this type of watch was often damaged and the hands were replaced regularly and that is what lead to the invention of the "stem-winder" which eliminated the need to touch the hands or the nut which holds them.

I know a little of the history of this piece but not of it's deep past or original owner. The RR watches are high-quality time machines that relect the time when durability and quality were the norm and folks didn't just toss their possessions aside when something went wrong. Glad you started this thread Dan! Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 07:37 PM

The above is from Slag

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 08:14 PM

Kendall - next time you come to the UK, bring your Elgin pocket watch with you so my other half can take a look at it!

K
xx

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:41 AM

Slag
wow is that rare, that is one of the oldest Illinois I know of .. how wonderful you still have it and treasure it.   The Illinois watches throughout their history were one of the the top models produced anywhere. They are highly prized by collectors and from what my repair guys say, one of the best to work on ... great watch thanks for sharing. I have an Illinois that dates to the early 1900's I believe. Wonderful time keepers also. Here is some history of the company

Illinois watch company

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 09:56 AM

If any of you want a pocket watch that keeps great time and costs little go and look for a Russian molnija pocket watch on ebay. They are everywhere on ebay at all prices. Normally you can get an 18 jeweled molnija for under 30 bucks. The Russians in the 60's copied the Rolex movement. They are inexpensive and take a real beating. I put one through the washing machine and it still ran and kept time. Collectors are not very interested in them hence they have little value but they are great mechanical watches that just run and run. I never had one serviced. After many years I just put it aside or I serviced it myself by squirting lighter fluid in it ... then the things still run and keep time for another 5 years before doing the same LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 03:06 PM

The Chinese also make excellent cheap watches.
I have a self-winding 27-jewel wristwatch, that shows, day, month and date. List $99, but I am sure one could get it for half that.
Timex is OK, but the Russian and Chinese watches make it obsolete.

One thing I don't know yet- how long these watches will keep good time without needing service (which will cost more than the watch). Only time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 03:18 PM

Another great great carry watch that will not break the bank is the latter day Elgin's. Here is my Elgin 616 US made circa 1950. I bought this watch for 50 bucks and never yet had it serviced since it keeps perfect time. These watches are everywhere, this one is 17 Jeweled and they are beautiful carry watches that won't break the bank

616 Elgin

In the late 50's they started to import their movements from Switzerland those do not have the DP on the face. Yet they are a fine carry watch and you can get them for under 50 bucks ... great watch for carrying around and keeping good time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 03:31 PM

Here is the molinja I was talking about. My Russian 18 Jeweled Railroad watch. I saw one of ebay for 200 buck ... NO .. you can get them for 30 bucks. You can drop them, dunk them and they keep on running. Full exact Rolex copy movement ... If you are going to pirate a watch, why not pirate a Rolex I guess ... LOL ... This one I have is circa 1962

Russian

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 10:09 PM

Dan, old buddy, I got to looking at this Elgin you gave me and I found that all it needed was a tiny drop of thin oil on the balance wheel. Well, not on the wheel itself but the jewel.
It has been running for over two hours.
I don't know what model it is but it is quite fancy. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 11:28 PM

Awesome Captain, I had asked that guy here to fully service it. He may have cleaned it but sure didn't oil it ... that was a great idea captain. Also if at anytime you have trouble with that crystal, take it out and pop it in from the front side of the watch and not the backside ...I think he put that in wrong also but don't touch it if it is all running fine now. That is a really good Elgin it is from 1921. I forget the model. It ran perfect for me forever but I had not carried it in years and the oil was probably dry.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 08:38 AM

It ran all night but stopped at 6 am. sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:03 AM

What that tells me Captain is it needs oiled fully, That is inexpensive and there should be a watch shop near you. My 940 to have it cleaned and oiled was 70 bucks and that is a complex watch to work on . When I told that guy here in town what I think he did was put it in the electrostatic cleaner with the solution but he didn't disassemble and oil ... That sounds like what is going on. All old watches need cleaned and oiled to run ... lately for me about every 5-8 years depending on how much I carry. In the meantime I can going to give you one of my molinja slimlines. 18 Jeweled Rolex movement with fine adjustment. (it will fit your watch pocket and fat belly from all the good Jacqui cooking) Look for it this week

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 01:41 PM

The movement is copied from Rolex, but lacks the precision in the way the parts are made.
Molinja and Rolex are not equal.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 01:53 PM

molnija! I can't spell it either.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 02:18 PM

correct Q, but good accurate watches in their own right

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 07:56 PM

I don't see how anything can keep better time than my cell phone.

It makes me sad, Dan; this Elgin is so beautiful and yet it won't stay running. If it was a Timex I'd try to see how far I could throw it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 10:14 AM

It is a simple fix captain, I am sure of it. If it did not tick at all I would be more concerned. if you don't have a watch shop nearby have Jacqui take it over the pond when she goes next for Herga's other half. I hate passing them back and forth in the mail as I am not sure if that was what caused it. It could be something as simple as needing demagnetized ... Depending on the scanner at a PO if an old watch gets magnetic they run fast, slow , stop ... That is why a local watch shop would be fine. Just have an estimate first.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 12:02 PM

It was running as long as it was face down on my desk, but now it won't do anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:49 PM

My two latest acquisitions. Not old but very nice:

Charles Hubert 3804

Charles Hubert Mechanical Masterpiece

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:57 PM

Hubert makes very very nice modern watches ... It will last a lifetime and will be passed down for generations like my old ones will be. I went through my drawer and found my old Elgin 574. I thought I sold or gave it away . Been carrying it all day and it has been dead bang on time.   It looks just like the 616 but is about 1947 17J adj 5 positions. I also think the latter day Elgin company was doing some creative marketing at the time. The say adjusted 5 positions but 3 of those are really given adjustments in any watch. When Hamiliton said adj 5 positions it truly was 5 positions ... but good marketing at the time I guess. Never the less the latter day Elgins are great carry watches. If you can find one on Ebay nail it if it is running well. They are getting harder to find these old 574s

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 08:21 PM

Charles Hubert watches are satisfactory for the money. They are made of Chinese and Japanese parts and assembled in Hong Kong (also in Shanghai?).
A lifetime warranty is advertized but, like watches sold by Stauer, just what that means is questionable.
The "Charles Hubert Paris" is, of course, mis-leading. I think that they have stopped claiming that there was a designer named Charles Hubert.
They use some of the same parts used in Stauer watches (I have a 27-jewel automatic, as I think I posted a while back. Bought on impulse, just to see what they were like).
Stauer runs adds in the Smithsonian Magazine and elsewhere.

I will toss it in the garbage when it stops running.

The following note posted at NAWCC (North American Watch and Clock Collectors Club).
"........... The mechanical watches [Hubert] are made in Hong Kong. For the price, they are one of the better buys. Because they offer the lifetime warranty, they do not use the cheapest bidder in China to make their pocket watches."
"For service, contact:
Unitron Enterprise Corporation
3710 Rockwell Ave. Suite E
El Monte, CA 91731
800-221-1881
[e-mail]"

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 08:27 PM

AHHH didn't know that Q, thank you ... I was thinking the Paris guy ... thanks for the heads up

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 08:31 PM

Hey Q are you a NAWCC member. I am on the forum under my real name so drop me a PM when you are visiting there.   Also , like you ... I lust for that 21J Raymond ... ahhh someday ... I saw a couple on ebay but my other half would have a fit ... LOL .... At least my kids got me my 992B ...   I am a happy camper with it.

This morning I dropped my 940 ... I suspect it will cost me for that stupid move ... time will tell (no pun intended)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:01 PM

///They are made of Chinese and Japanese parts and assembled in Hong Kong (also in Shanghai?).///

You're not going to get a decent watch these days that doesn't come out of Asia--or a decent anything these days. If they still make it in the West, it's no better and often worse and far more expensive.

Just like my guitars--all out of Asia and as good or better than any produced in the West. Unless you want to waste $3000 on a Martin. I won't. I get the same applause with my $500 Takamine that I would have gotten with a $2500 Martin.

As for pitching the watches if they break. Hell no! I have a watch shop nearby that maintains and fixes all my watches and do it quite cheaply. I have nice cheap gold Penney pocket watch that was only for looks and he said bring it in so I brought it in. He got it running and it keeps excellent time now. Pitch it like hell.

But really folks, 95% of what you buy these days--at least some part of it was made or assembled somewhere in Asia. Don't kid yourself and get used to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:52 PM

Well knowing most of the scholars at the NAWCC those guys know their watches. That place is a museum of knowledge about every watch ever made or currently being made. If they say it is one of the better buys then it most likely is a pretty good watch for the dollar.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 10:13 PM

The Hubert? Oh, sure! But the reason you get them so cheap is that they come from Asia. If they were actually made in Paris--good christ--I shudder to think of what you'd pay for the same quality. The Hubert watches are beautiful!! Buy one and tell me I'm wrong. They're gorgeous, keep good time and are worth the price. That 3804 is a real gem. I wish I could hand to you so you could heft it in your hand. And the Mechanical Master, well, you have to see it person to really appreciate it. They're worth the money. The other fellow is just saying they're not really European just because it says Paris on it. But then nothing's European anymore just as nothing is American anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:57 PM

Ever read WatchTime magazine? It has all the latest high quality timepieces in them, mainly wristwatches.

The Richard Mille Cailver RM 025 is a super facny piece of work and only $565,000. Yes, you read that right!

Vachero Constantin's maki-e series features faces and backs of real Japanese lacquerware sprinkled with gold of silver dust to depict cranes, plum trees and nightingales by Zohiko, an old lacquering company from 1661. Maki-e is a set of three and apparently aren't dols separately. Each is $80,000 so the set is $240,000.

There is a Clef du Temps watch for $390,000. It's from France.

Want a cheaper one? Try the Radiomir Composite Marina Miltaire 8 for only $14,900. Piguet's The Royal Oak Equation of Time watch is only $98,600 in gold. The stainless steel model is a steal at a mmere $75,800.

You can grab a Cartier Astroturbillon for $133,000 in white gold or settle for a rose one at $124,000.

Now, I love the Jaeger-LeCoulture Master Grande Tradition Grande Complication watch. You have to see the dial face to believe how beautiful and complex it is. And all mine for only $350,000!!

But, I don't know, maybe I'd go with the Robert Dubuis Excalibur for only $545,000 in platinum.

And you don't want to know what the Swiss watches cost--believe me. So, as I said, the Western watches tend to be somewhat more pricey that the Asian watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:50 AM

josepp you have obviously never played an Apollo guitar.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:52 AM

Dan, this old Elgin has run all night suspended with the back and the crystal off.
This is crazy making.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:03 AM

Sure did Captain, I think that was the problem all along, fully wind it today and see what happens

great news

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM

OK Captain, now, put the crystal back in .. but don't do it from the backside, it snaps into place from the front of the watch ok ... so looking at the watch, snap the crystal back into place in the ring from the very front of the watch facing you .. this keeps it away from the hands. If the crystal presses on the hands or even slightly touches it, it will stop.   I did the same thing with my 992. Once I put the crystal in from the front. You will here it pop in, gentle pressure, ran perfect as it was no longer pressing on any hands ... give that a try and wind er up

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:22 AM

85 bucks to fix my 940, yup called me early this morning.. don't drop your watch. Jewels crack pretty easy ... dang .. got to start using a chain more

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 12:17 PM

////josepp you have obviously never played an Apollo guitar.////

How did you know? HOW DID YOU KNOW?????????

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 12:27 PM

Captain
The finest mechanical watch pocket or wrist watch ever made could never match the accuracy of the cheapest quartz watch that one throws away when broken. We are talking springs and gears and levers vs a quartz crystal and battery pulse for time keeping.   But pocket watches are way-y-y-y cooler and have the history. In addition one never needs to tear them apart and clean and oil and demagnetize.   We pay the price for carrying history in our pocket for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 12:35 PM

A great quote from Art Thieme

"when you hold one of these things, the past, the present and the future all come together in one place"

How very true. Long after we are gone, our kids will see it run. How many people in the past were kept safe on a train, or look at it when their child was born. And today, it tells me "get your arse back to work" LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 02:17 PM

A new Rolex Datejust costs about $7000. Watches with complications of course higher.

My daughter-in-law, a physician who spends a lot of time in a hospital as well as her clinic, has two watches- a Rolex mechanical she wears when she is in the hospital and clinic, and a Timex when she is in the hills, etc.
Quartz (and the atomic type which is always correct) sometimes go nuts around some of the high-powered medical equipment now in use. Of course, equipment with strong magnets can sensitize mechanical watches, but doctors wear Rolex- it goes with the image (and they can afford it).

Me, I collected a few old American classics, but at my age I no longer add to what I already have. Sometimes wished for a Patek Philippe or a Rolex, but my money had to go elsewhere- and yes, my wife would have used the rolling pin on me.

I was an Nawcc for a short while, but quit.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 02:42 PM

I just don't understand the attraction to a Rolex, or any of those overprices watches.
They are like new cars, no personality compared to the old RR watches.

My cell phone tells me what the date is and it tells me the time to the split second.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 03:09 PM

Well, Kendall, if I was rich, I would have bought a Lamborghini rather than a Jeep. Image, you know!

And to digress, I was looking at a Canadian slick mens magazine (Sharp) yesterday. Advertisements for the Mercedes, and the Cadillac, both featuring a new model in full-color, showed sporty examples that have 500 or so horsepower and can hit 60 miles an hour in under 4 seconds. This is much better than the muscle cars of the 60s that are sought by collectors.
Gasoline economy? Who cares if one can afford "the very best."
(A feature article was about the Bugatti Veyron, which has 1000 horsepower).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:33 PM

The speed limit is 65 all over the country. My 1937 Packard will do that all day. (100 hp).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:45 PM

I want a picture of that Car ... I love em !!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 06:21 PM

Speed limits are set by the states. Much of the mountain west is 75. A small portion of Texas has an 85mph limit.
A good place for speed cops was just outside Houston, Texas. On the major metropolitan freeways, speeds of 70-80 were allowed, but this stopped abruptly where the county took over.

But as I noted it is 'image' that determines the buying pattern.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:13 PM

Dan, Jacqui is going to send some photos of Lady Beatrice via e mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:34 PM

Check out this 1856 beauty

I have a coworker whose dad was a watchmaker from Germany. He has an 1857 pocket watch that keys up. He says it's suppposedly the same kind that Lincoln owned. It doesn't work and he can't afford to fix it. I said I'd pay to fix it bought if only he sold it to me which he refuses to do. His wife wants to sell it because they need the money but he can't get much for it broken. Looks like it just needs a new main spring. I'd get that thing running in no time. Damn, I'd love to have it. He has some nice turn of the century railroad watches too. Won't sell those either.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:42 PM

Mudcatters,
I was just reminded that this thread is active. Perfect timing!!

A week or so ago Dan (Old-Dude) sent me a 1883 Waltham railroaders watch. What a beauty; keeps perfect time--as long as I remember to wind it up every 12 hours or so. Using it makes me feel like I'm connected with the old timers who made their runs on time. All the scoring is just about completely worn off the winding knob from over 130 years of use. I think I might take it to a jeweler I know in town to get those ridges re-ground back on to the winder--if it is possible. My hands are terribly numb from MS now --- sort of as if I had oil all over my hands.

Dan, again, thanks so very much! I truly appreciate your kindness and generosity.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:45 PM

Dan is one of a kind alright.

My Elgin is running as long as it is in the upright position.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM

That watch, made by J. McCabe, London, presented to Capt. Enright, belongs to the Horology collection, Museum Victoria Australia. Did your coworker purloin it?

Lincoln, by the way, never owned a McCabe watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:53 PM

I'm saying he owned a McCabe. I'm saying that my buddy says that the watch he has is supposed to be the same type as Lincoln's. I don't remember what type it was. I'll have to ask him. I'm just showing the one above because it's purty. It's not what my buddy has.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 07:58 PM

Whoops, left out a word in the first sentence. It should read "I'm NOT saying he owned a McCabe."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 11:27 PM

That 1856 watch is sure a thing of beauty regardless. Those key winds were something special. I had a very old one myself but sold it many years ago ... however mine was coin silver not gold ... Oh the history .. amazing

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 08:12 AM

This Elgin is giving me fits! It ran all night suspended from its chain, now when I laid it on its back it wouldn't do anything.
Hmmm, I had a wife like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 08:50 AM

I paid the guy to clean that thing, it is obvious that he did not Kendall.   That is a classic "I need Cleaning" condition.   Crap ... That should not be expensive as no repairs are needed since I know the watch.   See if there is a shop near you ... get an estimate ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 10:41 AM

Watch repair shops have gone with the Dodo.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 11:18 AM

An old timer technique, I don't advise it but I have done it many times. The cleaning the old timers used was napa contained in high amounts found in lighter fluid. I would take the crystal off , the back off and give it a shot. It will completely darken the face of the watch ... no worries .. once the fluid dries it goes back to its original condition.   A better approach is Helga kitty when Jacqui goes over the pond but you can try this ... Pisses me off however, I paid that Jeweler to clean it ... Some of the newfangled cleaning is not done right. They buy these electrostatic machines that use a solution that cleans and oils at the same time. Yes they work great, but if they don't take the time to pull the mainspring it gets sticky ... hence this stuff. He may have done that, I am only speculating or he took my money and did nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:21 PM

A good watch service involves dis-assembling the watch. Impossible to do it by dipping the watch!

I still have my ultrasonic cleaner and equipment, when I did some of my own cleaning. There were a couple of local watchmakers, and they did the reassembly, jewel replacement and parts making, etc. because I was too much the amateur to do it properly myself. They gave me advice but I wasn't very coordinated and had too little time to work on the movements properly.

If you aren't willing to pay for good service, throw the watch in a drawer and forget it.

There are a number of service watchmakers that your watch can be sent to, if no-one in your area is capable- check with your local or state Nawcc club; they will have recomendations.
A couple that will do watches sent in-

Scott A. Ekleberry- (Ohio) http://www.itsabouttimeonline.com/mechanical_watches.htm.
He does wrist- and pocket-watches. His website gives rough estimates for different types of watches.

Another (but long wait)
Douglas Stewart
Renaissance Watch Repair (Washington). Est. $25 plus shipping and insurance.
[e-mail]
Pocket watches only.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 03:56 PM

It's such a shame, this is a beautiful watch and I would hate to "Throw it into a drawer and forget it." I'll let Jacqui take it to Old Blighty when she goes next month.

Dan, I got the new one today and it is running like a clock. I can't make out the name but there are the initials cccp which tell me it is Russian.
Thanks again my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 06:23 PM

Captain

Molinja slimline 18 Jewels ... rolex copy guts. The Russians made some great watches for daily carry.

Q
you are right, ya gotta tear them apart ... which is were my Anyway, I will have it back soon ... sniff sniff sigh ... don't drop watches use a chain .. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 07:36 PM

The 1857 watch my coworker has is Wm Ellery. He gave me some photos of it. If you'd like to see them, let me know and I'll email them to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 08:07 PM

Dan, did you see the photos of our old Packard?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 08:40 PM

Love it , that is a great car

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 09:03 PM

William Ellery movement was made by Waltham, an 11-jewel model. Lincoln had one in a silver hunter case, dated 1863. The movement cost $13.00. By 1965, it was the cheapest of their movements- Bartlett at $16.00, Appleton-Tracy at $38, and one called American grade 00 at $175.00 (a very rare ladies size, only a handful produced).

Lincoln also had a gold-case watch with English-made (Liverpool) movement; in the news recently when a message about the Civil War by a watchmaker, c. 1861, was found inside.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: josepp
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 09:06 PM

By 1965?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 09:19 PM

Sorry, 1865.

None of the many reports that I found about the discovery of the message identify the English maker of the movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:12 AM

From NAWCC

Hey but there could be more out there, I would have the Smithsonian have a look at it .. If they can trace the serial number to the buyer .. that could be interesting

According to Carlene E. Stephens, Curator, Division of Work and Industry, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution Lincoln's everyday watch was an English lever in an American gold case, sold to Lincoln by George Chatterton, a Springfield Il. The American Watch Co. watch you refer to is a Wm. hunting case sn 67613 in a Waltham case no. E279 and was given to Dennis Hanks (Lincoln cousin) in 1864.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 12:15 PM

Just picked up my 940 from the shop, the old girl is running fine again. Don't drop your watch !! The case is all worn, the dial was replaced in the 20-30's. The railroad guy carried the hell out of it .. Love this old watch even though it is a size 18. Its all about the history

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:44 PM

Dan's in love!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 02:12 PM

With your CAR captain I sure Am ... Holy Cow is that a sweet ride

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 03:48 PM

That was an expensive drop also .. 105 bucks total to fix a busted jewel. History in your pocket is not a cheap option at all

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:28 PM

Error? in Wikipedia-
"In tribute, upon the Gettysburg address, he [Lincoln] was presented with a William Ellery key wind watch Waltham Model 1857, serial number 67613. This watch is now in the collection of the National Museum of American Historey at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D. C."

See post above by olddude- this watch was presented to Dennis Hanks- Lincoln's cousin. From Nawcc, message from the Curator of that section, Smithsonian.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:45 PM

Saw some Pics on the NAWCC of that watch Q ... my gosh how beautiful. Sometime when I get to the Smith I gotta look it up , I am sure it is on display ... I hope - it better be.

We know of 3 Lincoln watches, but here is where my optimistic brain kicks in, it was not at all uncommon to give watches to prominent people. They were considered one heck of a gift. Not saying this is real .. Lincoln stuff has been forged since his death but If I found one I would have it look at for sure. But with great value comes great evidence to support the claim. You have to have the history to back it.   Sometimes researchers can find it based on the serial number via seller. Me I would take a great pic, put it on the NAWCC and let the experts roll with it. Those guy would do it just for the fun of identifying the history of it. That would be a place to start

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:53 PM

By the way, Lincoln preferred solid gold watches to silver ones ..
I true republican LOL (sorry couldn't resist)

Josepp, if you want to post some pics on flickr.com I will post for you on NAWCC. Fun to see it for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:42 PM

Since the Bartlett movement was produced along with the Ellery (and even before), I took out mine to look at it.
All of the Waltham movements changed over time, adding jewels and refinements but keeping the basic form of the movement.
My Bartlett is a size 16, 17J 1899 date. Runs nicely, although it last was oiled some 20 years ago. In a Cashier (Canadian gold-fill) case.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 08:03 PM

Beautiful watches Q

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:02 PM

And for our friend here on Mudcat. If you are a folkie like we are all here on this forum, get rid of that dang newfangled store bought electric watch of yours and get back to your roots. Heck ya can buy a scotty for 9 bucks that will keep good time .. Your dad, your granddad and his and his used a wind up .. go back to your roots folks, that is what we are all about, "tradition", get a pocket watch "any pocket watch" and get a chain .. and go back to your roots. Just like our music right

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:45 AM

Still playing with this old Elgin.
If I stand it upright or lay it down on its face it runs perfectly. If I lay it in its back it quits.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 10:11 AM

Just like my ex wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 11:16 AM

Just picked up this one in a Junk Store ! 20 bucks. It is an 1894 15 Jeweled Waltham size 16. The watch didn't run, I tore it apart and cleaned it myself... it has been keeping perfect time now ... very cool. Someone tried to pry open the back of the case. I had to mess with that to get it to close properly again ..

Waltham

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 03:10 PM

Stauer put out an email offer today for one of their Chinese 27-jewel automatics; $49.00.
Dunno if the offer is open or only to previous customers.
www.stauer.com.
(Caution- Buy something and they try to get you into a "club" Refuse!)

I have two size 16 Walthams, 17-jewel, that I picked up cheap. Both run well. One has a hunter case. Not sought-after by collectors, so often found at low prices. Very good watches, good for at least another 100 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 03:35 PM

You are absolutely right Q. They are passed by because they are not railroad watches and lots of them were made. But they still keep excellent time and will run another 100+ years and still keep excellent time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:51 PM

I just checked out that Chinese watch ... that looks very well made and sure has a lot of features for that price. I will still just use one of the old wind ups but you can't beat that price.

This Waltham that I just fixed has been running absolutely perfect for 3 solid days. I will probably give it away as I just really want to keep my railroads for my kids

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:00 PM

Dan, I'll trade you two for that one Waltham! How about the Pocket Ben and the Elgin?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:07 PM

sure if you want it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:05 AM

I just love those big old fat pocket watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:12 AM

The Waltham is slim, not a fat one it is size 16

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:12 AM

Tell Jacqui you want one of these for Xmas. This is what I carry daily
http://cgi.ebay.com/antique-1909-Hamilton-992-Railroad-Pocket-Watch-21j-16-/150519138721?pt=Pocket_Watches&hash=item230ba3c9a1

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:13 AM

oops here is the link
hamilton 992

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: maeve
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:30 AM

That's a nice one, Dan. Someday I'll get a good one for my Truelove. It will have to be the right one, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:29 PM

Or the 992b, size 16- also often about the same price.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 03:43 PM

992B is what I would absolutely go for. But I keep seeing the 992's well under 200 bucks listed as serviced. Most you see around 120 or so. So it is just a little easier on the pocket. The B's always seem to bring top price as they should. I won't carry mine except for special occasions but I will carry my 992 because that one I can replace reasonable

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Dec 10 - 01:15 PM

This one is a steal if someone wants a great christmas gift.
I talk to Fred on the Watch forum many times, he is a master collector and watchsmith and I am sure it is perfect knowing him.

Waltham RR

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 03:34 PM

Latest yard sale find, an Elgin GM Wheeler 1895 Lever set railroad grade. Keeping perfect time so far ... wow .. someone carried the hell out of it ... love the history cause it was well used on the railroad

GM Wheeler

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 08:27 PM

A couple of your links failed, couldn't see the watches.

I have four pocket watches now. Where does it end?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 08:42 PM

You have five, watch your mail next week

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 10:36 PM

A serious watch collector only wants original right from the factory condition. I am more of an old watch fancier. I want ones that were used, railroad watches that have actually been used on the railroad. The history is the best part. you will see many of the old railroad watches with replacement steel dials. That is because the porcelain dials cracked under different temps all the time. Most of the old timers preferred the steel replacement dials as they held up. The GM Wheeler had the dial replaced probably in the early 1900's. It was railroad used ... case worn but running perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 11 - 08:58 PM

What am I going to do with you?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 11 - 09:00 PM

If I were rich I'd have a room full of old pocket watches and a hanger full of old cars!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 01:20 PM

... and an instrument technician on retainer, and a mechanic on salary.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 01:50 PM

Don't need a mechanic, I can fix anything but a broken heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 06:06 PM

Oh, boy, Kendall -- are there any more at home like you?

Not that I'm looking to replace Edmund, but there are days when I dream of a genuine fix-it guy with his own tools and a taste for sheet-metal repair to deal with stuff with the dent in the garage door ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 07:30 PM

Way I see it is, some ordinary person built it or put it together, so some other person can take it apart and fix it. Just a matter of logic. See how it works, maybe take some pictures to assist in reassembly. Child's play.
Jacqui has been complaining that the shoulder belt in her car is too high and it chafes her neck. I examined it, saw how it was constructed and redesigned it. Added a piece of steel in the shape of a bar and added 5 inches to the anchor. Works great.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 08:31 PM

Sometimes it can take a long time to get the right replacement part if it cannot be machined.
I am waiting for a restorer to find the right jewel (no, not all were standard) to replace a broken one in a 1870s watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 10:05 AM

Hey Q
Tell me what you need. The Amish guy (master) actually makes the parts and ships them to companies ... he is inexpensive also. Fully serviced my 992b .. timed it perfect running condition 50 bucks.

I had a swiss watch, spring broke .. can't find one anywhere. Me made the spring .. perfect .. again cheap

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 10:20 AM

On my GM Wheeler, I went back and bought the 1902 railroad maintenance book for 50 cents each. I got 5 of them. They show the history of the watch. These books are amazing. They have the foreman's signature next to notes like, cleaned boiler, repaired main track .. etc .. amazing. Now who the heck sells their family history like that .. go figure huh. It always amazes me how little some folks care about their family history ..

railroad book

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 01:39 PM

Latest estate sale find, 1920 Illinois 21 Jeweled
ticks but needs a new stem, minute hand and I want to replace the dial
Illinois watches are one of the best I think

Illinois

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 01:42 PM

So the thing I sent you is junk, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 01:23 PM

I brought three of my old watches that been laying around needing repair to the Amish master. This guy makes watches and makes parts that he sells to the restoration companies. He had them for 2 months. One needed hands and a balance, one needed a mainspring and the other a hair spring. All needed cleaned .. got them back 60 bucks total. Look and run like new ...

I never pass up broken watches unless they are total destroyed like Kendall had ... I am luck to have a guy like that around here .. repair is painfully expensive elsewhere. If I am in a rush, then I use the other guy who is a Jeweler. Cost me 100 buck just to service one of my railroad watches that needed nothing but cleaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 03:59 PM

One of my sons goes to Auction Houses, last week he bought a large cardboard box of bric-a-brac .....old coins, some ceramics old tools...and in the bottom corner,a little knitted pouch.

When he opened up the pouch, inside was a solid gold hunter pocket watch with swiss movement!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 07:29 PM

Ake
you are looking at about 1500 hundred or more in gold alone

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 07:50 PM

Interesting that all the watches the Amish guy could carry since he has a huge collection, he chooses to carry a Hamilton 940 ... just like me .. It is still my all time favorite watch 21 Jeweled Railroad 1906 or there about lever set. Mine the case is all worn and lots of brassing .. just like the old railroad guys would end up with theirs

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 04:51 PM

My Latest find
Illinois 1918 (19 Jeweled)
absolutely amazing condition and all original

Illinois

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Mark Ross
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 05:36 PM

olddude; Lever set?

mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 06:15 PM

Yup

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 06:18 PM

Sorry Mark I read it wrong I thought you said not lever set ...
no it is stem set this one ... not railroad approved but beautiful

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 06:23 PM

Guy wouldn't take less then 50 bucks. I couldn't get my wallet out fast enough ... perfect runner ... I really want an Illinois Bunn Special but my wallet won't let me right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 06:34 PM

Hey Mark
this is what I am carrying today. A Hamilton 992 ... I rarely carry my Hamilton 992B just on special occasions but the 992 I will carry. It is 21 Jeweled, railroad approved, perfect condition. It loses about 20 seconds a week if that. Don't know why my photo is grainy .. not a good pic at all .. perfect condition and all original size 16 adjusted 5 positions as opposed to the 992B which is 6 positions

992

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 06:37 PM

21 or 23 jewel Bunn? Regular, or 60 hour?

If 23j & 60 hour, bring bags of money. OR just your usual good luck for finding these things.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 06:39 PM

21 Jewel Greg, no way I could afford the 23. I want the railroad approved either 19 or 21

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 07:28 PM

I gave a lot of the standard carry type watches away. They are great watches but the railroad ones press my buttons and I save them for my grandson. I just can't pass up a real bargain on one of these things. It is fun to see them live again and be used again.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Mark Ross
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 08:00 PM

My 992B (c.1944) needs cleaning, but the shop that does that here wants a hundred bucks. So I am carrying a Carravelle with a Swiss movement tha I picked up for $20.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 08:08 PM

Mark

I got Greg's watch being fixed by the Amish Master right now. If you give me a month or so I can have him do your 992B ... probably cost ya 30 bucks


He is very busy right now but in about a month it will settle down. He is making some custom parts for some rare watches that are going to a Christies auction.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 08:19 PM

I'll just have to scrape by with this 1915 Elgin. It's old and fat but that's what I like in a pocket watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 08:39 PM

aint nothing wrong with that Elgin Captain, that is a first class watch and so is that 574 that I gave you ... that is a top of the line watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 09:02 PM

The 574 lists for 250 dollars at the antique store here in town. On ebay I saw the exact same one for a similar price ... aint nothing wrong with that watch either

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 05:58 AM

I'm carrying the 574 because it keeps excellent time. The old fat one loses. Can you tell me what the dp means on the face just under Elgin?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 09:40 AM

Captain Elgin came up with a mainspring called Durapower. It was one of their trademark patents. The DP is a symbol you want to look for in Elgin Watches after 1940 or so ... it stands for DuraPower.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 09:47 AM

Captain that big chunky one that you found recently just needs cleaned, give me a month or so when the Amish guy is not so swamped. I will have him service it for you ... I didn't see your watch but I assume that is all that is needed. By the way up until maybe the 20's they used Whale oil as a lube. It gets dark and grimy over the years. Gregs watch that is a civil war era beauty had black jewels .. just from a zillion years of old oil. Easy job. Amish guy will make it purr

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 09:50 AM

OH and the durapower symbol goes way back on Elgin's however the swiss made Elgin's in the 60's since the company name was changed yada yada. Those watches do not have the DP on them that is why I tend to make sure I see that on a latter day Elgin 40's and beyond. My view anyway. I am no expert

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 02:20 PM

The Elgin factory closed in 1964, and moved to South Carolina. Rights to the name "Elgin" were sold to MZ Berger Inc. a company that manufactures its watches in China. "Elgin" watches produced after 1964 have no connection with the former Elgin watch company.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 02:23 PM

Thanks Q I thought a swiss company bought them. Maybe I am thinking Hamilton. I do know those watches do not have the DP on the face. DP doesn't matter in the old Elgin watches but it does to me from the 40's on to the 600 models. The China or Swiss or whoever took over the name made a really bad unadjusted cheapo watch. Such is the end of a great American company

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 02:57 PM

MZ Berger sounds Swiss, but has its head in Hong Kong. It also has the Gruen name. Sharp watches are made by them.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 08:25 PM

I'm not an antique freak as such, but I do love old pocket watches and old cars. (Pre WW 2)Don't know why.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 09:41 PM

I picked up a 21j Bunn Special 60 hour fairly cheaply on Ebay. The case and face aren't much, but the movement looks very good. Many have lost the black infil in numbers and letters on the plates, but this one is near perfect. It runs well, but I imagine it should be cleaned and oiled.
It's a late model, 1928, just after Hamilton bought in, but still made in Springfield.
When I was at the Univ. Illinois, I went to Springfield a couple of times, many years ago. It was a pretty town.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 09:32 AM

Q that is my next adventure to find a Bunn ...
Even one I need to get repaired ... it is a quest
A man needs a hobby

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 09:48 AM

Q
Ebay is a really good place to look right now. This economy is so bad that things are going very cheap. I saw a 992B go for 148 dollars. Steel case bar over the crown. Unheard of price for a 992B. Yea I am sure it needed service but come on that price !!

You should pick yourself up a Hamilton 992 ... That is such a great watch and small to carry .. you can get a real deal now. The 992 was certified by every single RR in its time. The circa 1920's ones are incredible and if you find one that needs repaired I got the guy for sure.

The best BW Raymond I have ever seen is Greg's key wind 1867 that the Amish guy is fixing for him ... My gosh that is some beauty, stunning.

A great BW Raymond will round out my RR collection and someday after I find my Bunn I will pick one up ... I like the circa 1920's BW's most

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 10:00 AM

Ok, stupid question. What makes the 992b superior to say, the Elgin you gave me?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 10:41 AM

It is a railroad grade adjusted 6 positions and RR certified ... that is the only difference. The RR had really strict rules in regard to their watches. They had to be lever set not stem set (after the 1890's) that is. There was a really bad accident prior where the conductors watch was off two minutes because the stem pulled out in his pocket ... hence they invented lever set watches. You unscrew the face pull the lever to set the time. Also watches like the 992B are 21 Jeweled. The guts of the RR watches are much more complex. They had to stand up to some really tough beating and keep on a ticking. The 992B in my opinion is the flagship of RR watches ..

Your watch is excellent and will keep excellent time, it was made for normal carry for regular folks but not certified for RR use. Most regular watches people did not like the lever set as it is a pain to keep unscrewing the face to set the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 10:46 AM

By the way, more jewels does not mean a better watch. A watch is considered fully jeweled at 17. However, through the many years it was a marketing thing ... as the movements became so much more refined, they added more jewels to say .. hey my watch is 19, mine is 21 .. bla bla bla. Railroads demanded at least 19 then 21

However, a rule of thumb the more jewels tends to mean a higher quality movement in American watches. It is all about the movement, not the case, not the dial .. not the pretty .. but all rests in the movement that determines quality. That is why to me the 992B is the best

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 10:50 AM

Sorry for the long winded answer. Bottom line, the one I gave you will keep as good a time as any RR watch. But if you want to go back in time and work on the RR ... then they won't accept it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:13 AM

One more thing Captain, never judge the watch by its case. Back in the day you bought a movement. You then picked a case. Some would buy the cheapest watch they could and case it in solid gold (for jewelry). Others would buy the best watch they could afford and case it as cheaply as they could get. Many RR watches are brass cased on the old ones ... why ... cause the case wasn't going to hold up with daily wear and tear. it is all about the movement. There were very few companies that "factory cased" their watches. The 992B is the exception, it was factory cased.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:30 AM

Now that I am on a roll. When you are looking ... Elgin, Waltham made beautiful high quality watches. However, Illinois and Hamilton are in a class all by themselves. They, In my opinion made the finest movements in the world. Better than Rolex or the master swiss makers. They put a bar on watchmaking that no one since can compete in regards to mechanical watches. There is no bad Illinois or Hamilton watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:04 PM

One of my Uncles many years ago was a watch maker, and I remember him telling me to look for a watch with a 902 something movement. Odd how that just came back to me.

I just looked at my Elgin and it is right on the money with the computer.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:14 PM

I noticed recently that many of the bridges had lost much of their fine gold or black infill on the lettering/numerals. I had assumed that this was due to age and repeated cleaning, etc. Well, it is due to cleaning, but the result of using an ultrasonic cleaner. Fine for the parts, but the ultrasonic action pops out the gilt, etc. so the bridges with these enhanced markings should not be tossed in the ultrasonic.
The Bunn 60 hr. I bid in is in a good but non-Bunn case with a monogram. Now I will try to find a Bunn case on a non-runner/damaged movement.
The railroads, as you said, put some requirements on cases. At one time the 'swing' mounting was recommended. Plain silveroid/brass/silver/gold cases were OK, but no Hunter cases. Of course lever set was demanded, so the crystal and its mount had to be removable.
The railroader could buy his watch from the union, the RR, or from a catalogue or watch dealer. Businessmen who wanted a good watch could buy the same models. As olddude said, the case was often sold separately on older RR approved watch movements, the quality of case depended on what the pocketbook would permit.
Around 1900, a 'silveroid case', good nickel steel, cost as much as 14k gold, and was much preferable for hard use.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:57 PM

That Elgin was fully serviced Captain before I gave it to you .. Should run like a top for many years ... LIKE U

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:05 PM

I learn something everyday. I didn't know that about the silveroid cases. I notice I see lots of the old RR watches in those cases. Especially the 1800 once. Very cool thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:13 PM

I couldn't resist. I sold a couple of common ones that I had and bought another one of these. It runs perfect but I want to clean the grime off the dirt. I will give the mint one to my grandson and carry this one so we each have an exact watch

992B

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 09:34 PM

1908 Sears, Roebuck has a page devoted to the RR watches that they have for sale.
The recommended case is "Alaska metal" (some advs. call it silveroid, there are other names). All of the watches are size 18 (they note that a few RR's accept 16 size).
The case is the "cup," the movement fitted into a "swing ring" which holds the movement and fits into the cup, and the bezel with crystal which screws into the cup.
RR Accepted movements and price in the basic case and 20 year gold-fill:
21j John Hancock Hampden- $18.00, 22.35
21j Special Railway Hampden- $19.50, 23.85
23j New Railway Hampden- $21.75, 24.50
19j B. W. Raymond Elgin- $24.75, 29.10
21j Father Time Elgin- $26.75, 31.10
23j Special Railway Hampden- $27.00, 31.35
21j Veritas Elgin- $30.75, 35.10
23j Veritas Elgin- $35.75, 40.10

The same movements are also priced in Hunter, solid gold, and various fancy cases for other than RR use.
I have a 21j Spec. Railway Hampden, a nice watch.

Other catalogues will have prices for RR accepted South Bend, Howard, Waltham and other makes, but the above gives a fair idea of price range.

Wound up my grandmother's South Bend 15j half-hunter today. A nice watch with the pin that permits it to be worn on a blouse, dress, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 10:05 PM

And to put those prices in perspective, the 1908 dollar equals about $23.00 today.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 10:19 AM

My misses will mess me up if I buy any more watches ... but on ebay take a look at this zenith ... that watch is pretty rare. It was certified on all Canadian Railroads .. what a beauty and a steal if the bid holds.
zenith

She also has a 992b, dial is whipped but so what. I bet that one goes for cheap also

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 10:46 AM

I see the same lady listed a Hamilton 992 as 982 .. she read it wrong. That one has a bad dial also .. but a steal if the bids hold. I love my 992

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:32 AM

Why couldn't I have been born rich instead of modest?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 12:04 PM

that zenith that has 56 is a special edition for 1956
I only saw one of them before ... dang ... my missus would kill me so I have to pass. I tend to sell my common ones and then use the money to buy what I want so it doesn't really cost me anything. But alas I did that for the 2nd 992B so me and my grandson would have the same watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 12:12 PM

Here's the way to do it, find ones that need some repair. Find an Amish master that doesn't charge and arm and a leg. Sell the common one for double or triple what you have in it .. Then get the one you really want

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 01:58 PM

The Zenith is 1958. It has the Canadian 24hr dial.
Not long after, wristwatches were accepted for Canadian RR use, quartz movements and all.
I have a (Swiss) Bulova RR 9362 Q, 24 hr Canadian dial, which I bought new. It sits on my desk, I like its sweep second hand which is orange in color and easily visible when I am racing someone to the wire in Ebay bids.
These quartz RR watches are cheap used in Canadian flea markets, I don't know if similar watches were accepted by the RRs in the states.

My grandfather's old E. Howard (not one of the desirable ones) is on my desk, checking it out, it needs repair. It runs on its face, but that's all. 1911, 17j. Should get it fixed.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 03:29 PM

Not that I know of Q, the RR in the states still had some tough rules. Don't know now, probably anything goes today.

did you see how clean the Jewels are on that Zenith. Beautiful watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 03:48 PM

Omega also made a pocket watch acceptable on some Canadian RRs.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 04:06 PM

That Zenith is at $209.50 now.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 04:20 PM

Well I figured, I should have PM'd you .. probably now people read my post and went after it. Still think that 992B she has can be fixed by the Amish guy for under 100. One of the catters should go after it if they can get it under 160

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 04:34 PM

Seiko P J6008 wristwatch is approved by some U.S. railways. See Amazon for sellers. Under $70.
A Pulsar model, under $100, also accepted.
The best are sold under the Hamilton name (several hundred dollars).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:09 PM

Dug out an old Illinois- keywind and key set. 24hr dial so possible Canadian RR use.
It is running, but how well, I dunno yet. Can't remember where I got it, possibly a family trunk. The serial no. dates it as 1875.
Heavy silveroid case with 'ears' front and back to open it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 07:29 PM

awesome send me a pic, that sounds like a great watch. very cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:11 PM

My Elgin is right on the money with the computer.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:24 PM

Is that the 574 I gave you captain. I had that cleaned before I sent it. At least that one didn't get banged up in the mail like the other one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:41 PM

Wound and keeping time today-
Ladies Elgin size 0, 1904. Flea market buy. Three color gold fill case.
Ladies South Bend, size 0, 1911 (my grandmother's)

Hampton 18s, New Railway 23j (wish it was the Special)
Waltham 16s, P S Bartlett, model 1899, 17j, ser. no. for 1902. A nice watch, not worth much, but light and easy to carry. Three-part case.

Illinois 18s, America, keywind and key set, 1875, ?jewels. Been keeping time for 6 hr, now if it keeps up for 30 hours-
I had to go to the net to find out it was key set. Couldn't find a lever, and the top is just a knob to hold the ring.
I love the ornate 24hr dial. I will send some pictures.

South Bend, 16s, 3 part case, can't get the back unscrewed so don't know the movement. This one came with a box of costume jewelry at a house auction.

Watched some stuff on Ebay. A 23j 16s Bunn Special, not the 60 hour, went for $525. One that is 60 hour is up to $1525.00 and still 2 days to go. Several good Bunn's are up, go to Ebay and enter Illinois Bunn Special.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:49 PM

Can't buy anymore watches Q not for a bit ... Kid in vet school new roof, unless I unload some art that I collected for years. One of the antique flea markets has a 23J bunn ... trashed up pretty good but I can get it for around 150. I am sure the Amish guy will hit me about 200+ to restore but that would be well worth the money ... Got my eye on it and it is hidden way back in the store so hopefully it will remain until I can do it.

You got some real gems. I wound up a 1911, 17 Jeweled Elgin, perfect dial, some light brassing on the case. Kept dead nuts accurate time. I gotta get this new 992b cleaned. It will be 3 months before I get it back from the amish guy but he will charge me all of 30 bucks to clean oil and time. He may do it for free, he has done that for me a few times cause the guy likes me and I send him business.

On the zenith web, I see no bids on that 992. If you can offer the lady say 75 bucks maybe she will take it. I have a place for replacement dials at 21 bucks and probably 30 or 40 to have it sericed by my amish guy ... no brainer for a watch that sell in the jewelry stores here in town for 300 - 400. Ya may want to think about that. I don't know the lady but looks interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:08 PM

I got him working on that 21 Jeweled Illinois gentleman watch circa 1920. He is going to put new hands on it. Fix the hair spring , clean and service, polish the case. Can't wait to see how that puppy runs. That would make an outstanding carry watch as I wouldn't cry if I messed it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 01:43 PM

Hey Q
did you ever see a 950?
I don't know anyone that owns one ... don't I wish .. wow what a beauty
I look at these things and my wife says "looking at watch porn?" LOL

hamilton 950B

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 03:18 PM

The 950B was issued in two forms- stem set and lever set. The Ebay offer doesn't say.
The 'S' serial numbers are peculiar, S 28.. would be c. 1945. Haven't got the Shugart price book, dunno what its retail value is now, but I imagine about $900-1000.

The old 1875 keywind-keyset is on time after 24 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:21 PM

Hamilton prices, movements. Otto Young Catalogue, 1926

The 950 (without B) goes back to about 1900.
Prices of movement in basic cases from their adv. in a railroad magazine-
950- $103 list, $85 to RR men
992- $57.70, $48.50 (This was before 992B. 992B new double roller in troduced in 1940s (haven't checked exact date)
952- $70.30, $60.00
996- $54.50, $45.00
974- $30.40, $25.00

950 description- Bridge movement, pendant or lever set, 23 extra fine ruby and sapphire jewels in gold settings, Patent motor barrel, gold train, Escapement cap jeweled, steel escape wheel, double roller escapement, Sapphire pallets, Breguet hairspring, micrometric regulator, compensation balance, double sunk dial, Adj. to temperature, isochronism and five positions.

992 description- 3/4 plate movement, lever set only, 21 extra fine ruby and sapphire jewels in gold settings, double roller escapement, sapphire pallets, gold center wheel, steel escape wheel, micrometric regulator, Breguet hairspring, double sunk dial, compensation balance, beautifully damaskeened, adjusted to temperature, isochronism and five positions.

Informative adv. Descriptions given for other models as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:26 PM

The above and other info at https://home.comcast.net/~k_singer/hamilton_watch_co.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 05:16 PM

The 1926 dollar is worth about $12.00 today, so the 992 cloks in at $692.00

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:45 PM

The 992 I carry is mint. I left the shop in 1919 . I tell ya properly tuned any of the Hamilton RR watches will keep Railroad time even today or better. I bet I don't lose 20 sec a week on my 992. If ya get a chance to snag one cheap even not working grab it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 09:01 PM

Too bad, olddude. A $100 atomic watch resets on the continuous time signal from Colorado, so is always accurate. 'Tain't purty, but it does the job.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 09:18 PM

Sometimes looks are important.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:59 AM

Ya Q but not near as much fun. I mean come on, if you are late for that dreaded dentist appointment, you can blame your 100 year old pocket watch .. try that with a new fangled atomic clock

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 10:47 AM

My Amish Guy
don't expect to see your watch for a couple of months he is swamped but he is as honest as the day is long and will fix it for a fifth of what you will pay anywhere. He lives 45 miles from me so I don't want to act as the middleman for sure.

M.L. Shetler, Watchmaker
7676 Route 62
South Dayton, NY   14138

Send it priority mail, insured with delivery confirmation. Put a note saying I sent you to him. He is not just a repair man, He makes watches from scratch .. a true throwback master with over 40 years of practice.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 03:10 PM

The 992B I just bought left the company in 1941. I think the ones in the 40's were the best myself. The case serial number matches also. What I been finding on ebay is that many of the expensive mint condition ones you see were actually pieced together. They put replacement dials from Larosa and replacement cases etc.. Nothing wrong with that but if they are going to ask 700 or so bucks for one it should be completely authentic I think. I made a heck of a deal on this lastest one and it is completely original and keeping perfect time. I clean up the dial so it looks great now

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:17 PM

Great story , my doc buddie screwed up his antique Rolex bigtime. Got an estimate from Rolex ... 895 bucks to fix it. My Amish guy completely repaired it to mint condition .. 189 dollars .. perfect condition, perfect runner.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:39 PM

Unless he used certified Rolex parts (only available to Rolex approved venues), he may have devalued the watch considerably (and voided any existing guarantee).
It may run well, but will no longer be of any interest to Rolex collectors.
This holds for several of the better makes, including Patek Philippe.

I am not an owner of one of these prestigious watches, but If I was, i would take it only to authorized facilities, preferably the one under the maker's name.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:06 PM

Rolex doesn't have enough history to interest me.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:09 PM

I don't think he has any intention of selling the Rolex, he just wanted it to run. He has several that he bought new, I know that only Rolex will touch those, this one is an antique he just wanted to keep and use . You could be right should he want to sell it in the future. I seriously doubt anyone would know the difference in any part Malin put into a watch. His work is first class and may have used Rolex approved parts don't know

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:10 PM

The guy is redoing a chronograph for a Christies auction so I suspect he knows what he is doing for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 10:04 PM

Just knowing the difference between a chronograph and a chronometer is a pretty good recommendation.

BY the way, was it a Scot who invented the chronometer? Up until then it was impossible to know what your longitude was.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 08:32 AM

Kendall - as far as I know, the chronometer was invented by a Yorkshireman, John Harrison. The BBC showed a film (Longitude) about him, with Michael Gambon as Harrison.

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 09:09 AM

Thanks for that, Kitty. You have to admit, I was close. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 03:46 PM

Herga Kitty is correct. John Harrison submitted his fourth design (he worked on the problem for years) in 1761 for the 20,000 pound 'longitude' prize offered by the British government. He published in 1767.
In France, Pierre Le Roy in 1748 invented the detent escapement characteristic of modern chronometers. "By 1766, Le Roy created a revolutionary chronometer that incorporated a detent escapement, the temperatur-compensated balance and the isochronous balance spring: Harrison showed the possibility of having a reliable chronometer at sea but these developments by Le Roy are considered as the foundation of the modern chronometer." (Wikipedia)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:21 PM

Ok this one is for sale for 100 bucks if anyone wants it
1910 Elgin 15 Jewel. But before you say 100 bucks Dan.
Malin replaced every worn part in it. Been cleaned, oiled timed by a master. He laughed when he gave it back and said, this watch will go toe to toe with any railroad grade after I was done with it. And it does. Absolutely perfect timekeeper. Perfect dial .. some brassing on the back case.

A steal at that price. ya may find them cheaper, but you won't have one that is completely functioning like the day it was made. PM if anyone interested

1910 Elgin

backside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:08 PM

Pleasant surprise today. I have a small South Bend p. watch that I picked up with a box of costume jewelry and misc. Couldn't get the back unscrewed (3 piece case), but the watch runs accurately. Finally got the watch repair guys at Sears (they are good, they rent space in the store to open it up and found it had the 21j Studebaker movement, adj. to 8 positions. They said it didn't need any work, and was clean- just needed to fix the cross-threaded back.
I looked on Ebay and found a couple, $400 approx. asking, that the sellers say run.

At a garage sale a while back I got a Rado quartz because it is a good quality make, with a sapphire crystal, and sell for better than $1000. Only ran for a bit, but the same guys looked at it and replaced a couple of parts (someone had messed with it). Now it runs fine.
They have certification from most Swiss makes so get parts quickly.

They cannot get parts for Rolex because they are available only to those certified for Rolex and backed by an authorized jeweler (nearest in Toronto in Canada). They are authorized for Omega, Ball, and most others that are CSOSC certified for accuracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 10:41 PM

wow Q those are great watches, that is indeed a good surprise for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:23 PM

An adv. in the New York Times caught my eye. Ball watches.

Starting in the 1890s, Ball authorized and sold RR approved watches that are much sought after.
They were produced by Hampden, Illinois, Waltham (and others?) I haven't checked.
The watches advertised are wrist watches, COSC certified automatic, mechanical.

Prices start about $2500 for COSC approved models, about half the cost of the cheapest certified Rolex.
They have micro gas light technology (can be read at night) which is guaranteed for 25 years. They are good to -40C standard and 7500 G-force shock resistance.

The Company is USA owned and the watches are produced in Switzerland. They are accepted by all railroads and others requiring accurate timing of operations.

I have asked Santa Claus for one.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:14 PM

My doc buddie gets a boner over Rolex watches. I never wanted one, first of all I could never afford one but even so, I would rather have a Hamilton ball railroad pocket watch or a Hamilton 950 over one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:36 PM

That 1941 992B that I bought. It has been running for two straight weeks. I have not reset it once, wind it every two days and I am here to tell ya it is dead nuts on with my cell phone. They will go toe to toe with any Rolex and probably outshine them

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:44 PM

Doctors here are undressed without a Rolex.
My no. 2 son is married to a physician. Took him a while to raise the cash to get one for her.

I have a pre-WW1 ladies Rolex. That was a time that they made run-of-the-mill watches, before they got in the certified, precision watch business. A rare one, I think because few survived the junk man. Got mine for $5 at a household auction. I saw a man's' on Ebay, but I didn't follow the bids. I was after a 60-hour Bunn Special. It went for a reasonable price, but I haven't got it yet; I hope I wasn't shafted.

The current Rolex batch is good at holding a good part of the purchase price, as long as one has the papers to show that all work done on them was by Rolex-approved technicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:33 PM

Dan, I agree. Rolex strikes me as nothing more than conspicuous consumerism. Never had the slightest desire to own one.

This old Elgin you gave me is dead on with my computer every time I check it. Perfect is like unique, neither can be qualified.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:53 PM

Rolex actually is near the bottom of the precision watch price range. A Patek Philippe will easily run $15,000, and watches with 'complications' up to $100,000, or more. These are watches that are in bare bones steel-gold cases, without gems encrusting the case.
These watches hold much of their value, and some bring large markups at auction sales, much like classic cars or other limited production high-end items.

There is an after-market that takes Rolex and similar watches and 'upgrades' the cases and dials with gemstones, pave diamonds and the like. This gilding the lily is really conspicuous consumerism.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:23 PM

And a thirty dollar Timex will keep as good time as a Rolex.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 06:22 AM

And a sun dial beats them all. Never needs cleaning, oiling or resetting.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 10:50 AM

Sundial/s a little tough to read on cloudy days & at night, tho. ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:14 PM

Hey Q,
I started a thread on the NAWCC site for a great pocket watch wind off. Myself and the guys are going to take our best watch, Wind it up to US Official time clock via web ... run them for a month and then report the findings. So far we have 950's a bunch of rare RR models and some low ends ... Going to do this Tuesday at noon sept 6 till oct 6 at noon ... wanna play ... most welcome or anyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM

I registered. I am trying to regulate a 1919 Waltham model 1908 16s 17 jewel.
It was running slightly slow. Now a tad too fast. Any advice on how to approach this without equipment?

I have better(?) watches, but this one is in a nice gold-filled hunter case and is a pretty little watch, easy to carry. A little trouble setting the time as the crown is too tight for my old fingers.

I will repost this at the NAWCC site if they "activate my account."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 04:13 PM

Hmmm. May use a 23j Crescent Street. Easier to wind and set.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 04:30 PM

oops- 21j Crescent Street. I have it running. In a hunter case, the lever exposed so that the front doesn't have to be unscrewed.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM

Wouldn't be fair. This old Elgin runs right on the money every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 08:55 PM

Kendall sign up for the NAWCC it is free
http://mb.nawcc.org/index.php

join my thread with the Elgin I gave you. By the way those guys on that site are the best of the best, they are the experts on watches. Most have written books and done extensive research ... they got the answers to any watch history ... amazing site for research

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 08:05 AM

I'm in. Bring it on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 11:01 AM

That 574 I gave you Captain was Malin tuned you bet it is dead nuts accurate. For a long time that was my carry watch. Beautiful precision watch.

I was looking at the pocket watches that he made. I dropped my teeth, he cuts the cases out of a solid brass chunk of metal, machines the threads, polishes it so it shines like gold. Puts the crystals so you can see the mechanism running also. His watches like his cases are masterpieces. I could never afford one .. but wow .. breathtaking. I looked at a mantle clock he hand made ... that blew me away also. The hand carved work ... my God the guy is a master.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 11:58 AM

Any of you folks ever run across a pocket watch marked "Camerden & Forster, New York" on the dial? They were jewlers/importers on 5th Avenue NY City at the turn of the last century, and apparently did more business in clocks than watches. Also sold statuary, etc.

Mine is a size 14 stem wind lever set in a Crescent 25 year GF case, so at least the case is US made. The jeweled (15?) movement is also only marked "Camerden & Forster" so would be interested to know if their movements were Swiss, French, US, whatever.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 12:37 PM

14 lever set is unusual, I think. Usually 16s or 18s. Could be wrong. Put a query on NAWCC with description.
Are the jewels 'screw-set'? These jeweler name watches can have anything from so-so to excellent movements, usually Swiss. With the 25-year case, could be pretty good. Some have RR acceptable movements.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 01:54 PM

For some reason I can't get into the club. Got tired of trying, but I'll be around to match watches.
Now I'm going to wind up all my watches and see which one is most accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 02:54 PM

Doesn't recognize my password. Have contacted, but no email yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 02:57 PM

NAWCC site seems to be case sensitive.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 03:12 PM

Greg
I will bet a diet coke that you have a private label Illinois watch. Illinois did a lot of that back them. The spring up everywhere. Send me a picture of the movement and I can nail it for you

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 06:25 PM

If you have the Shugart or the Illinois book, maybe you can tell me about the "America" movement in an Illinois, key wind key set, 1875 date.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 08:51 PM

http://mb.nawcc.org/showwiki.php?title=Illinois+Watch+Company&&highlight=illinois+America+movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 09:05 PM

Illinois was prolific at selling their movements to private Jewelers. If you go to the NAWCC website Larry has a thread and keeps a list and adds to it all the time. They were very Marketing oriented company for sure. They made great watches also

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 09:14 PM

Camerden & Forster made quite a few of carriage clocks. I use to have one but sold it about 5 years ago. Most of those Jewelers imported the clock movements from Germany ... when they got into pocket watch movements 9 out of 10 were Illinois. The quality was there and Illinois was more than willing to deal with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 11:44 PM

Frank:

Checking the references listed in the Illinois Watch Company Encyclopedia article, Illinois movement serial number 99695 can be seen to be, as you say, an 18-size, model 1, key-wind, key-set, 7-jewel, unadjusted, gilt, America grade movement, furnished with a plain regulator and a sunk-seconds Roman dial (the custormer's desire for a dial having 13-24 hour figures may have resulted in the dial you have). There were 15,900 of these built between about 1878 and 1882.

You may find the following Encyclopedia articles useful:

Watch Grades
Watch Models

Good luck,
__________________
Kent
That guy down in Georgia

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 10:27 AM

Are the jewels 'screw-set'?

Nope, Q. I don't think its a railroad standard job.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 11:07 AM

I do not know of any railroad that ever accepted a Private Jeweler Label. Not that the watches wouldn't keep railroad time, they just could not test every private label. Likewise, most all required American made watches.

When most people today service a watch, the regulator is largely ignored. It was factory set .. The service is done to the typical stuff like jewels, springs etc. There are very few people that know the factory specs and can set or repair the regulator during servicing. Malin puts that part back to factory standards .. That is why Kendall keeps saying it is right on it is right on ...

very few people I know can do that or will do that even if they have the ability ... time is money ... It is normal service to him

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 02:16 PM

Canadian RRs accepted watches with jewelers' names on the face, provided that the watch movement was on the approved list, and the watchmaker was certified to carry out service on the watches. If the regulator needed adjustment after repair/service, this was done by the watchmaker.

The serial number on my Model I Illinois, 99695, indicates manufacture in 1875-1876, not 1878 or later. Number 100,000 was made in 1876.
Named movements were common with Illinois watches, just what the "America" engraved on the movement signifies, and if other variations were used for Model I, I would like to know.

Not known to me are standards, if any, for RR watches before the 1880s. I hope queries at NAWCC will help.
I cannot find any information on when the manufacture of 24-hour dials by Illinois began.

I set my Crescent Street at 10AM today. Interested in seeing what it will be next Tuesday. I don't have an atomic watch, so I am using the time provided on my computer.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 02:22 PM

I don't know if "screw-set" jewels were required on all RR accepted watches. Interesting point. Have to look in NAWCC threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 02:25 PM

Q that is what I used the US Official time ... so far so good. It was fun to see some of the guys took starting pictures with their watches against the Time on the screen LOL ... I am going to lose miserably but having fun. I wanted to use my dollar watch but I couldn't get it to tick more than 10 sec.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 02:43 PM

Hey Q
I find it interesting, my cell phone time is about 20 sec slower than the Official US time. I wonder what clock AT&T use to send that signal . hmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 02:48 PM

Never mind I see it. Cell phone is right on with US Official time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 03:16 PM

400. All 5 of my watches are ticking away. They don't know they are in a contest.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 05:23 PM

Interesting article on Canadian Pacific RR watches.
http://people.timezone.com/msandler/Articles/ClitheroeRailroad/Railroad.html
The first watch developed specifically for the railroad trade was the Elgin "B. W. Raymond, which in the 1867 model was 15 jewel and key wound.
The last list was made in 1957, and included models of Zenith, Brandt (Omega) and Longines.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:58 AM

So far, the two Elgins and the Chinese one are tied for first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 12:57 PM

Mine are right on also ... especially the Hamilton RR watches. My God those old things are impressive. I suspect my Illinois will start to show it's age after a week or so. Need Malin to work some magic on it. So far however it is right there

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 03:15 PM

Just got a 60hr Bunn Special, lever set, only 21j, but a good-looking movement. It was running when the package came (regular USPS). I have set it and put it next to the Crescent Street that I am keeping up with. I think the price was low since the back is monogrammed and there is a very short hairline at the 5-6 position that is almost covered by the face ring.
I won't look at them until next Tuesday- by then I shound know if the news is good or bad.

NAWCC has a good summary article on RR watches. Private labels were OK until WW1 era, then some of the RRs ruled those dials out. Doug Sinclair repaired one with a smalltown B.C. jeweler's name, a Brandt (Omega).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 07:26 PM

Q
Doug otta know, he has forgotten more about watches than I will ever know for sure.

Those guys on the watch site are incredible. Mike offered one time to service my 992B for me for free. Ethan is sending me a dial for my Illinois and got mad when I offered to pay him. Great people there for sure. My God do they know the history.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 09:06 AM

I just have to remember to wind them every day. If one stops, it's toast.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:42 AM

It happened. One of my Elgins stopped in the night. It's out of the running. The Russian Rolex lost two minutes since Tuesday, the 572 lost half a minute but the big fat Elgin is right on the money. The Chinese Majesti gained a minute, so that's out.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 04:26 PM

Your Elgin is doing pretty good. I can see my one 992 needs serviced. It has lost over a full minute. The 992B are a few secs off. The 22 Jeweled Illinois is bang on ... hmmm go figure, that one is a gents watch not a RR watch. The old 940 with the weak mainspring is right on also maybe a sec or two slow ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 04:48 PM

It aint over til it's over.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 06:26 PM

Added an 1881 Elgin Bartlett to those I have on my desk. Two days late, but I'll keep it going for the two more days to se how it comes out.
I will find out if the extra watches need cleaning and/or adjusting.

MY entry watch, the Crescent Street, is right on with the computer time. Too early to tell if it will stay in the running.

Another old Waltham 18s is also "on time." A Bunn Special 21j 60hr is a hair slow, but hard to measure. A Waltham 17j with "Canadian Railway Time" engraved on the bridge is 4 minutes slow and obviously needs cleaning. The 992B is about 2 1/2 minutes fast. Another Waltham model 1908, 17j (just a good but unexceptional watch that I am trying to adjust) is also about 2 1/2 minutes fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 06:37 PM

olddude, what is that 22j Illinois? Do you mean 21j? What model?
I could go back on your messages, but I have to check on the butter chicken I have simmering away, and fix dinner right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 07:51 PM

21J I am sorry typo ... it is the size 12 1925 or so Illinois gents with the bad dial that Ethan is going to send me a replacement. Malin tuned it up for me before the wind off but didn't have a 12 dial. I figured it would show its age in a few days but it is purring along even better than my 992B's or at least as good. With the dial nuts up I have to wait till it hits a big number to be sure. So far though when my cell says x my Illinois is right there. My 992B's look a few secs slow but that could be the setting time also. One of my 992's is off a min and half ... time for service on that one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:52 PM

My Elgin 17 Jeweled 600 series (nice watch) really needs service or demagnetized. Running 4 min fast

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 01:07 PM

Can you explain sizes to me? I have a little one, a medium one and a fat one.All Elgins.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:09 PM

Fat one is 18. Middle one is 16, your small one is 12 .. since I know your watches these are correct captain

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:14 PM

Barry Goldberg gives a chart and explanation of watch sizes. This confused me also for a time.

http://barrygoldberg.net/watchinfo.htm
Several topics to click on including:

Click on, "What Size Is My Watch?" or go direct to http://barrygoldberg.net/watchguide/size.htm

You will find other charts for European watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM

Thanks, Dan. That is most helpful.
Btw, all three Elgins are right on the money.

It's hard to set them because the time keeps changing on the TV or computer, and I can't control the second hands.

I'm amazed at how much interest this subject has generated.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 11:22 AM

Old number 18 is half a minute fast, but numbers 16 and 12 are right on.(Elgin)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 11:02 AM

Illinois and my 992B's are running far better than RR time. However my one Hamilton 992 is off 3 full minutes. That watch needs service for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:03 PM

Poor old number 18 didn't wake up this morning, but number 16 is perfect.12 is a close second.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 01:54 PM

After 1 week-
Crescent Street within 1/2 minute.
Others (not in contest)-
Bunn 60hr Special- 2 min slow; 992B, 2 min fast; 1881 Elgin America 1 1/2 min fast; Waltham Bartlett 3/4 min fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:37 PM

992B's not in the race but both are only 10+ secs off. My 992 is terrible now dropped to 3 full min. My 940 is out, it wound down last night. The Illinois in the race is now a full minute off

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:55 PM

I take it back one 992B is 10+ sec slow. The other I cannot even measure. At exactly 4:53 it hit exactly 4:53 my God those things are impressive. However not in the race. The Illinois is more than 1 full min fast more like min and half to nearly two

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:58 PM

I am more inclined to believe it is less about the watch accuracy of the 992B's and more about the master watchmaker who serviced them both

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 06:33 PM

Obviously some of my watches need the service of our watchmakers. It has been many years since they have been cleaned and adjusted. I will have that done for one or two, but the expense is too great to treat more than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 06:35 PM

Have Mahlon do it Q ... you will be pleased at the price

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:09 PM

I have a good one here in beautiful downtown Calgary, olddude.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:25 PM

always wanted to see Calgary ... the photo's I have seen of it is breathtaking beautiful ... Always is in the Rockies for sure ...
great fishing I hear

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:24 PM

Which one of you wants this one we found in SantaFe? Dan, what size number does it look to be?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 09:02 PM

Dean box er up their guy ... I will get some custom pants made :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 09:13 PM

This is incredible. One week and my number 16 Elgin is right on the money!

I wonder why some watches wind hard and others so easily?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:05 PM

Kendall
after so many years the crow gets worn smooth, the stem gets bent or not fully seated ... that is the normal reason ... easy repair however. I got a couple myself that wind hard but not to the point where I want to invest money

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 11:25 PM

guest was me sorry, and i meant crown not crow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 07:48 AM

I also don't understand how anything mechanical can be perfect.

The crown on the 16 and the 12 is so small they are hard to get a grip on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 09:02 AM

They are not perfect my friend, but they were made by craftsmen who took great care and pride in their work.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:03 PM

One reason I like the old 18 size- the crown is easy to grip with my arthritic fingers.
The better watches were machined to extremely fine tolerances, and ruby and sapphire jewels, harder than steel, bore the spindles to the little wheels that went round and round, guaranteeing a long life.
Not perfect, but well-made. Watchmakers of the time always had a supply of repair parts. Even small towns along RR lines had a good watchmaker, certified by the RR, who could put a sick watch back to top condition.

Watchmakers capable of doing repair to old watches today took up the parts left over after the manufacturers ceased operation.
Last week I received back a watch of a great grandads. It needed a new mainspring, and a roller jewel. The watchmaker had the "new" old stock mainspring on hand but it took a while to locate the proper roller jewel, also new old stock.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:22 PM

The supply of "new old stock" is running out. There are not too many technician watchmakers who can use a watchmaker's lathe today.

Like parts for old Model Ts' to Porsches, some are being turned out in China, Japan and other countries. I heard someone in India is producing ruby jewels for old watches. Generally, these after-market reproduction parts are of poorer quality, according to collectors.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:37 PM

Two years ago I dropped one of mine, broke a Jewel .. 100 bucks to repair. The old saying they don't make them like that anymore .. so true with many of the watch parts. A master watchmaker today can make outstanding parts, but the time and skill needed ain't cheap for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:38 PM

By the way, lesson learn. Use a CHAIN .. if you drop it ... normally big bucks to fix .. they are precision machines

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 04:01 PM

Hey Q
did you see the watches on the watch site that the guys grandpa left him. He wanted to know what to sell them for. I could cry .. They are all solid gold, Top shelf RR .. E. Howard solid gold ... museum collection for sure.

my God what a collection .. His grand dad probably spent his life acquiring them now he wants to sell them ... how awful

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 04:34 PM

That roller jewel the old Elgin G.M. Wheeler needed cost $75. It took the watchmaker 10 months to find it. Clean, oil and adjust ? Like that yacht in the marina, if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 04:42 PM

A week and a day and number 16 is right on the money, to the second. How can anything not be called perfect?
By the way, I always use a chain.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:18 AM

Impressive for sure Kendall. That 16 was my carry watch and it always keeps far better than RR time ... Very highly tuned including the regulator. It will keep doing that for years before needing a tune up

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 11:45 AM

I have never been much of a fan of size 12 watches. But this Illinois is pretty darn good for its age. The 992B's are so accurate it is hard to measure. Far better then RR time and far better than any Rolex. Captain save your money and get a 992B but before you buy talk to me or Q (Q knows a hell of a lot more than me). I think the 992B was the best watch ever made myself. I carry mine daily now.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 12:40 PM

If I see one how will I know it's a 992b?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 12:53 PM

People with old pocket watches that are not really into the hobby should not expect the times that I get or Q or kendall or the watch forum. It takes a lot to make a 100 year old watch run like it did from the factory. Ain't cheap. A typical mechanical watch will lose over a min a day unless highly serviced.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 01:22 PM

Ususally says "railway special on the dial" but you still have to unscrew the case and see the 992B 21 Jewel, adjusted 6 pos. It is a size 16

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 02:18 PM

992B for Canadian RR had a 24hr dial, only said Hamilton on the face.
There were 3 common face dials: Hamilton, Hamilton Special RR, and the Military model which usually had a 24hr dial- the small second-hand dial had a small 6 and 18 (top and bottom positions).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 02:25 PM

Kendall - I hope the Elgin that was returned to you on 9 May is keeping good time!

Kitty
xx

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 02:27 PM

The 992B Military had U.S.Govt. additionally on the movement- perhaps not all. They had a silver case, usu. with an ordinance number on the back.
There also was a Hamilton 17j watch used in the military (forget the model number).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Mysha
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 06:42 PM

Hi Kendall,

Sure you're right about sun dials keeping better time. But then, I find my pocket watch can be set to Daylight Saving Time more easily.

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 07:13 PM

Hi Kitty, it was keeping good time until it stopped one night. I guess I didn't wind it tight enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 08:27 PM

Q
the one you were thinking about is the 17 Jeweled traffic special made by Hamilton ... I guess that one was for street cars and such or so the story goes. I saw one on ebay tonight at 70 bucks ...

Oh I wish I was rich

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 09:31 PM

No, this 17j is the WW2 U.S. government approved. I have one marked U.S. Navy, U. S. Bureau of Ships, with the date 1943. Model 2974B.
Good illustrations at the militarywatchmuseum website.

2974B

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 09:35 PM

The 9 page parts list for that watch may interest you.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 09:58 PM

Q

yup I know the one. I saw one of them listed as ordinance something or other ... really cool but I know no one that owns one. Got my eye on a BW raymond. If I can get it at the right price ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:23 PM

those 992b's from WWII are pricey for sure. They go for big bucks. my early 992b from 41 is civilian issue. It must have been made right before the war started ... incredibly accurate. I got it for 200 and boy did I make a deal ... but the military ones with the gov stamps I have seen 700 or so

ouch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:25 PM

wish I had your crescent Q. That is a superb watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:29 PM

Lots of Raymonds-16-18 size, 15-23j. Some are reasonable, some costly. Collectors like those with the wind indicator and those are the savings busters.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 11:29 PM

Looking at a size 16 from the 40's 21 Jeweled. I think I can get it for 100 it is in beautiful condition ... I hope I can anyway but I suspect not.

how is your time going. My illinois is finally starting to show its age. Great runner but not a 992b for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 11:11 AM

BW ... no go ... oh well such is life

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 03:24 PM

Well I am out, I let it wind down last night. I thought I wound it yesteday but alas I did not ... Illinois is out of the competetion

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 08:07 PM

Good old number 16 is right on the money again.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 09:08 PM

The Crescent Street is -2 min.
Among the unentered-
Model 1879 Waltham about +15 seconds
Model 1875 Elgin G.M. Wheeler about +4 min.
Bunn Special -4 min. I want to get this one cleaned and adjusted.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 09:28 PM

The two 992B's are deadly accurate .. no more that +7-10 secs on either. Man they sure made those watches. My doc buddie said his high end Rolex loses about +5-8 sec a day ... My 992B's don't lose that in a week

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 12:29 PM

How many are still in the running? People, I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 03:11 PM

Some good pocket watches on auction here:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/26429/page2

Not exceptional, but nice. A South Bend 227 model size 16, 21j, etc.
A 992 on the preceding page.

I will keep track for the month on the watches I posted yesterday. None has been cleaned or adjusted in the past 20 years or more. I will keep the notes with the watch. My Crescent Street is doing well, but I don't expect it to top out.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 03:14 PM

Q
please make sure there is some oil in them, you don't want to wear the bearings. Even a watch that keeps time if the oil is dry or sticky it will wear and cause bad damage my friend. You have some terrific watches in your collection

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 05:17 PM

A friend of mine wants to give me a Westclox Bulls Eye
Did you ever hear of a Ulysse Geneva? The back is embossed with G66.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 06:42 PM

I know Ulysse Nardin (of Geneva), an excellent watch company, but not "Ulysse Geneve."
Any other markings? Have you opened it?

Could be a cheap piggyback.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 06:58 PM

Warning
Ulysse Nardin was bought out in the 1980s and the watches made since that time are much cheaper "replicas". No longer a great watch.
Still no luck on "Ulysse Geneve."

The new company makes Rolex and Patek Phillipe replicas, etc.

See Genevereplicawatches.com

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 10:00 PM

Bulls eye dollar watch is wonderful, yea it was a kids watch but it is part of watch history and I enjoy them as much as any hamilton .. neither of those watches is in the Class of the Elgin I gave you but they are fun and all part of history ... you bet .. take them and have fun with them. I love my bulls eye as I had one as a kid for my birthday. One of my favorites I love them even if they are not expensive. They did keep great time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 08:16 AM

The Ulysse belongs to my friend, in his 70s. It was inherited from his grand dad so it it very old.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 09:43 AM

I bet it is a Ulysse Nardin then Kendall, great watch holy cow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 12:29 PM

A lady just sold me this size 12 17 Jeweled Elgin for 20 bucks in a yard sale. It is in a silveroid case. It runs but the stem needs reset .. I will have the amish guy fix it up .. should be an easy repair. The watch is 1931. I will probably have 80 bucks total in it. But it will be a first class carry watch as the dial is so clean. Notice the RR spade hands .. nice touch


Elgin

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 01:01 PM

A thing of beauty is a joy forever. Its loveliness increases, it will never pass into nothingness. (Keats)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:13 AM

Three weeks today and old number 16 has lost 5 seconds!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 11:38 AM

Holy crap, that is amazing ... amazing Kendall ...

By the way here is a great story. I took the lastest find to Malohn to get the stem reset, he did it right there fix it. He said hey dan you realize this is not 17 Jeweled but 7 Jeweled. It was not a common practice, but some Jewelers would alter the 7 to 17 back in the day to charge more money - fraud. Malohn said in 40 years this is the fifth one he saw. I will keep it forever as it is part of watch history. Kent on the watch site sent me an article from 1890 where the Jeweler was arrested for doing that ... really cool find as it was altered at the time the watch was sold by the criminal Jeweler

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 12:07 PM

Ya gotta figure, If I carried it for my daily time it will be dead nuts accurate. Right now I am carrying my 992B early 40's. I do shutter as if I break it ... oh boy .. but I never seen anything like it time wise. My uncle was a fighter pilot in WWII. He said even though they had top notch wrist watches that they were given, the pilots would only bet their life on the 992B. Good enough for them, good enough for me

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 12:11 PM

By the way Malon said "Dan what did you do" I am getting your friends watches, and I thank you ... ahh I am swamped but I will get them done for sure ... ahhh thanks I think ... LOL

On a high end 1857 key wind, full service charged me 45 bucks. Key wind service is obscene expensive else where. Takes a hell of a lot more to service one let alone by a master watchmaker

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 03:52 PM

When I recover from buying a new furnace, property taxes and a new radiator for the 1937 Packard I'll send number 18 to you.
Number 12 was doing great until I forgot to wind it. That's the one our friend in England worked on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 05:41 PM

Well, I am learning which of these watches need service and/or adjustment.
The Crescent Street which I entered has dropped out of the running; 6 min slow after 3 weeks. Probably needs service. Dunno when it was last cleaned.

The Waltham 15j model 1879 is something like 15 sec fast. Made in 1900. It was last serviced in 1988. Looks like this is my best timekeeper among the pocket watches I have.

The Bunn Special 60 hr 21j which I got cheaply a month ago is 6 min slow, but the seller had no idea when it was serviced, it had been in a drawer as long as he could remember. Looks like a nice clean movement, however. It has a plastic crystal which is slightly discolored; it should get a new glass.

By my computer is a Bulova railroad approved wristwatch, bought about 1960, the battery replaced about 8 months ago, and within 15 seconds (Approximate only; I am reading time on my computer, I haven't used the time signal).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 07:17 PM

How many of us are still in the game?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 07:44 PM

Well if I count my 992B's that I did not enter, one is off by about 20 secs the other it is too hard to judge, maybe just a couple secs hard to tell it is so darn accurate. I rewound the size 12 Illinois and started again just for fun ... dead nuts on after a week of solid running but it is technically out.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 08:04 AM

So, it looks like just you and me, kid.
Number 16 is right on the money. Somehow it gained those 5 seconds

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 01:56 PM

Kendall - next time Jacqui comes to England, send no 12 with her....

Kitty
xx

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:28 PM

most old watches will average 2-4 minutes or more a week that are not high end RR watches. to lose of gain 5 sec over this period of time is more than impressive, it is spectacular

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 04:16 PM

Why, Kitty? It was doing great until I forgot to wind it; that put it out of the game through no fault of the watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 01:15 PM

My latest find, a very rare Hampden 21 Jeweled Special Railway 1907
there were only 100 or so of these on this production run .. very rare.

Hampden

inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:07 PM

It's kinda sad watching guys like this stumbing around garage sales, trembling and twitching and mumbling "watches...must...have...watches..."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:10 PM

LOL, my wife said there comes a time in a man's life that either he turns to loose women and booze and fast cars ... or pocket watches ... so I am allowed to any pocket watch I want .... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:57 AM

So, when is the month up? I've lost track of time.

For some reason, number 16 has gained 1 full minute!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 12:15 PM

Month was up on thursday captain and if you gained 1 min over 32 days that is amazing ... for example, rail road time is 30 sec per week

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 02:51 PM

My Crescent Street 21j failed, now 10 minutes slow.
Not entered:
The Waltham 15j Model 1879 is 30 seconds fast, excellent time-keeping. I had no idea it was still well adjusted.
The Bunn Special 60 hour, which I got just as the test was starting, is 8 minutes slow.
Both the Crescent Street and the Bunn probably need cleaning as well as regulating; neither having been serviced for many years. Service on the Model 1879 was in 1988.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 03:11 PM

It was 5 seconds off for weeks then suddenly 1 minute fast. Curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 08:58 PM

been testing the 21 jeweled hampden special RR. a week now 4 sec off wow great watch 1907 size 18. just bought a bw raymond 21 jeweled 1947. bad balance staff, got it cheap. gotta have the amish guy fix it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 07:25 PM

My 18 Elgin is acting up, it stopped and now I can't reset the hands. The stem won't turn. Sounds serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 12:54 PM

It maybe just the stem needs reset ... a five minute job. Send it to me I will have it fixed for you

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 02:36 PM

Kendall drop it in the mail this week if you can. I have to take my BW Raymond over to get fixed and I will bring yours. He lives 45 miles from me so I don't want to make two trips ok

Thanks Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 07:54 PM

500. ok

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 06:29 PM

So I take my recently purchased 21 Jeweled BW Raymond over to Malhon for repair. He says, ahhh Dan tell me again why you bought this ..
lets see, broken Jewel, broken regulator, broken balance stem and wheel, broken crown ... I said, cause I know a master watch maker and you are use to me bringing you turds .. fix it for me at the first cousin price .. He laughs and says I will completely restore it .. first cousin price .. LOL

When he is done it will run like the day it left the factory and under 100 bucks for repair

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 06:35 PM

and he replace the dial (face)with an original on my 21 Jeweled Illinois for me .. and wouldn't let me pay him .. now my Illinois is perfect in everyway

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:54 PM

Ok for those who have them, lets start carrying our 992B's everyday. It is a shame not to use them daily since they are so much part of our RR history. I know you are going to say the mesoline dials. But what the heck they were made for use ... how about it Q are you in. We can compare times periodically.

I been switching off on watches everyday ... going to just use one of my 992B's everyday from now on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:45 PM

olddude, sorry to jump ship. I like my 992B, but I have a very thin Movado quartz, so light I forget that I am wearing it, and that will continue to be my everyday timekeeper.
I am forgetful in my old age, and I would have to hire someone to wind the watch everyday.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:03 PM

Its not just you Q .. heck I forget to wind also :-) I had a docs appointment at 10 and my illinois was saying it was 8:30 at a stop
LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 01:14 PM

Jeez, if I had a 992 b I'd never neglect it. sniff.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 03:06 PM

I'd wind it up and feel of it every day. No, wait,that's what wives are for.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 07:09 PM

Hey Q
you won't believe this one, guy offered me this one for 110 bucks. I jumped on it. 1948 Steel cased 992B, going to get it cleaned and give it to my son in law for xmas. I got him into old pocket watches also. It needs cleaned bad. Some minor cracks on the mesoline dial but pretty sweet all in all

steel 992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 07:15 PM

Frank
do you remember when the steel cases came out on them. Seems to me that this maybe re-cased because I thought they came out in the late 50's and not in the 40's but I could be wrong .. You have forgotten more about great old watches then I will ever learn for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 08:19 AM

I don't remember when we started this game but my number 16 Elgin has lost one minute in about a month?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 09:59 AM

One minute a month, RR time is 30 sec a WEEK ... that is incredible but that is what my friend Malohn does to a watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 04:34 PM

Stainless case 992B- All I have found so far is that latterly Hamilton sold their watches in a variety of cases, 10K, 14K and stainless steel. No date found so far for introduction of stainless steel.
My 992B has a factory dial, 525 CP* 24 hour Black, in melamine (melamine introduced in 1948 and on all by 1950).
*CP = Canadian Pacific, but the watch was also used by Canadian National and other RRs. in Canada.

My case is model 7, a 10K gold filled made by Fortune of Canada. (Fortune made cases for factory watches, as well as for recasing watches by jewelers).

I did find that a few 992B movements were sold to jewelers for casing to the customer's wishes.

I also found that 525,000 992B watches were made and sold, continuing up to the closure of the factory.
This makes the 992B one of the most popular of all precision watches.

I will keep looking for the date of introduction of the steel case.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 04:37 PM

Found a statement that the steel case watches were sold mainly to firemen and engineers and others who could subject the watch to abuse on the job.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:19 PM

I think I have found it.

1945-194?- white metal. This is not a good descriptive.
1949- Nickel-chrome case by Keystone.
1950- Non-magnetic stainless steel, made by Star Watch Co.; The No. 15 case used by Hamilton as an economy model, priced at $71.50.
Used until production ceased.

See- http://www.watchdoctor.biz/pocket.php.

Data from catalogues sent to Hamilton wholesalers, thus fairly reliable.

A lot of information can be found by putting various entries in google.
Took me 2 hours to get to this data. I will post my bill for this service after I figure all the add-ons.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 08:48 AM

Thanks Q, send bill to Kendall LOL
wow good info.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 11:29 AM

Q
just got your reading material .. Oh my gosh how priceless is this info. Amazing stuff .. I will be reading all night

Thank you my dear friend

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 12:01 PM

Q
I talked to Kent on the forum, he verified the serial number and case serial number as a match .. your info was right on. I was wrong as to the date of the watch, it is 1952

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 05:50 PM

Good-looking 992B factory dial 24hr CP525, gf case made by Star for Hamilton- Ebay 270 842 093 771. Will be gone in 2 hr, but the pictures may remain for a while.
A good looking steel case- 140 628174171- This one may go for a bargain price.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 06:18 PM

I nailed an original railway special porcelain dial for the steel cased one that i got. I know it should only have the melamine dial but if the intention is full time carry which it is, the porcelain will hold up better even though in 1952 it is not technically correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 03:06 PM

Holy Cow
I got the BW Raymond 21J back from Mahlon ... the missing regulator he replaced with meantime screws as was required on Canadian RR watches to regulate them ... A work of art, I gave him a turd he gave me back a perfect watch amazing.

Kendall
I picked up your watch, will mail it tomorrow morning .. he did some amazing work on it. Keeps RR time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:43 PM

I can't thank you enough, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 02:30 PM

I just ran across a rare one; a Seth Thomas sidewinder. It runs, keeps time and it was only $30.00. Dan said "Grab it." I don't question Dan.

This one is strange, the stem is at the 6 o'clock position. All the others are at 12 or 3.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 02:47 PM

I have one with a Faheys gold filled case, and an Omega movement, keeps great time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 04:27 PM

Good grief, are you guys still winding on...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 04:34 PM

We're doing time Dean

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 06:14 PM

Kendall made a great buy, 17 Jeweled sidewinder for 30 bucks anytime ... good eye captain
Nice Seth Thomas ... nice case ... clean dial ... keeps time ... good job.

I just had the Amish guy fix my roller Jewel on one of my three 992B's. Mahlon did it for me clean it and oiled it and said Merry Christmas ...and charged me nothing.
he is a good friend. After 2 solid weeks of running ... it is dead nuts on with my computer ... hasn't lost anything ... amazing little machines. I also got my Hampden 21J Special Railway cleaned and oiled. At size 18 it is big and chunky but keeps pace with my Hamilton's in terms of accuracy. Back in 1901 Hampdens were more expensive than the Hamilton's ... for some reason collectors seem to pass by these superb watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 08:59 PM

Frogprince, yes, we are still winding on. We might get "Ticked off" if you ...hell I can't say it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 07:01 AM

Old Seth was right on the dot this morning.Looks like I stumbled on a winner. Thanks again, Dan, your input is very helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 04:20 PM

Kids found me a 23 Jeweled 1908 Waltham Vanguard RR Watch for Christmas. Case is a little worn, could use cleaning but it is a dandy. Runs great and keeps great time but I can see that the oil is a bit dark. Going to take it to my Amish friend for service. Very cool been looking for one of them .. hard to find at a decent price.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 08:30 PM

This watch hobby is fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:29 PM

I have the same model Waltham, Dan, but mine's from 1936. Inherited from my grandfather who was a station operator and telegrapher on the WP, SP and a number of local lines in Texas. It's in excellent condition and is something to marvel at.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 12:36 AM

gilly

your grandad's is an engineering marvel, it was adjusted 6 positions and one of the most sought after watches of its day. The Vanguard is just a beautiful watch. My 1908 version is adjusted 5 positions.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:55 AM

Right, Dan. I don't understand all the lingo but "6 positions" is engraved on the inside works. Also "CASED AND TIMED BY ELGIN NATIONAL WATCH CO." is engraved on the inside of the back plate.

Enjoy your wonderful gift. Mine is a great way for me to remember my dear old grandfather.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 02:28 PM

Yours is a more modern version. The sixth position is actually stem down. That means no matter what position it will maintain accuracy. The five positions does not test for the stem down. That came about in more modern watches. You have a treasure as it was your granddads. You can pass it on generation after generation. That is so wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 01:01 AM

I am thrilled, just found a Hamilton 936 in hunter case. Those things are super rare and the holy grails of Hamilton collectors. They are the ones that started it all .. been looking for years and stumbled across it. The movements were never marked. You have to know the insides and the serial number. Mine has a very low number ... gotta get it repaired. Completely thrilled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 02:18 AM

Probably not of significance to collectors here, but on the chance that it might have an effect:

Fire destroys landmark former Ill. clock factory

2 teens are charged with setting the blaze

Associated Press
1/1/2012

PERU, Ill. — A fire at a massive former clock factory that police say was deliberately lit provided an eerie backdrop for a northern Illinois city's New Year's celebrations, and despite the efforts of firefighters from throughout the area, the city landmark was destroyed.

The blaze at the former Westclox Co. clock complex, which covers a two-by-four-block span of downtown Peru, began around the time people were counting down the last seconds of 2011, Gary Eccles, an engineer with the city's fire department, told The Associated Press. By 11 a.m. Sunday, the fire was burning itself out but had destroyed the building and caused it to cave in on itself, he said.

Police Chief Doug Bernabei said at a news conference Sunday that two teenage boys, a 15-year-old from Peru and a 17-year-old from La Salle, were charged with aggravated arson. The older teen, who's being charged as an adult, appeared in court Sunday and a judge set his bond at $250,000, according to the News Tribune.

LaSalle County State's Attorney Brian Towne said the two teens entered the building, poured gas from a can they found there onto a boat stored inside, set it on fire and then left, the newspaper reported. Towne said a tip that an anonymous caller gave Peru police led officers to the two suspects.

The fire, which caused propane tanks to explode, prompted a mandatory evacuation of homes near the complex. But Eccles said that by 11 a.m., nearly everyone was allowed to return home. Those who weren't were being kept out because the smoke from the fire was blowing directly at their homes.

The building, a landmark in the city that once housed Westclox Co.'s clock and watch-making operations decades ago, currently houses several small businesses, including a salon, a photo business, a lab and others, the newspaper reported.

Westclox built 44 structures at the complex from 1910 until 1956, then closed in 1980. A group of investors bought the building and sold it to developers in 2006, who said they planned to convert it into a retail and convention center while maintaining its history integrity.

The National Park Service in 2007 deemed the building eligible for the National Registry of Historic Places "because of its significant contributions to the social and economic development of Peru and the nation," the newspaper reported.

© 2012 The Associated Press.

I omitted a couple of paragraphs for brevity here, but they were mostly "local color."

So far as I'm aware, Westclock made mostly "utility grade" clocks that wouldn't be of much interest to collectors but might be to "accumulators" who collect almost anything; but I'm not really familiar with much clock history.

According to the story, any Westclock records probably had been removed some time ago, so even loss of history of their products wasn't likely to have been affected.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,ossonflags
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 06:22 AM

I have a an Ingersoll watch from the fifties with Dan Dare and the mekon from the Eagle comic as a face.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 08:08 AM

Dan, Elgin number 18 keeps stopping so I've gone back to old faithful, Elgin number 16.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: ossonflags
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 04:27 PM

I still have the watch, but not the dad who bought me it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 05:40 PM

I have never collected them, but those Ingersolls, etc. with cartoon characters can be worth more than a few dollars.
You have a good family keepsake, collector value or no.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 08:05 PM

Q
is absolutely right, that is a fine old watch . treasure it for sure.
Q has forgotten more about watches then I could ever learn

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 08:11 PM

Q
along with the Hamilton 936, the guy sold me a mint perfect Waltham Riverside 21J. Just mint condition. I nail both watches for 200 bucks total. The 936 is more than impressive for sure. I have to email you a photo

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 04:52 AM

Well now, I have a silver pocket watch from the 1910s which I wind and use occasionally. Nothing special - but I do have an 1825 vierge movement silver 'turnip' style watch in one of my desk drawers. Must get it out and check it. It's not working, and I bought it ages ago - advertised as for repair or parts. So I have to make my mind up whether to sell it as is, get it repaired and sell it - or get it repaired and keep it!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 07:53 PM

I love old pocket watches, but when it comes to keeping accurate time, you can't beat this 7 year old Cassio wrist watch of mine. I reset it twice a year for the change to and from daylight saving time, and the months that have only 30 days plus February. It has never gained or lost a second.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 09:56 PM

yea but modern watches have no soul

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 08:10 AM

None at all. I wouldn't trade my Elgin 16 for a Rolex.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 10:02 PM

Your Elgin 16 keeps better time. My doc's 7000 dollar rolex loses 31 sec a week he told me when he was admiring my 992b that loses 8 sec a week if that

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 31 Jan 12 - 07:50 AM

I switch between the 16 and the 18. for the past couple of days I've been carrying the 18 and it has been right on the money. However, the 16 is prettier.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 31 Jan 12 - 09:03 AM

Is that the 18 that Mahlon cleaned and regulated for you? If so he is a master for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 31 Jan 12 - 07:20 PM

It is indeed. I'm now back to number 16. Nearly perfect time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Jan 12 - 08:32 PM

Well you are running a 17 jeweled non RR gentleman's watch and that is superb time for that size 16. Heck it is better than Rolex ... Once you get into the high end RR watches then you will see 8 sec a week or so

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 02:42 PM

I carry for the esthetics, not the time. My link to the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 12:59 PM

Well I found a BW Raymond 21J circa 1927. It has the L&N line on it
. It was used by the conductor on the Louisville & Nashville RR back in the 20's. A great piece of history

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 11:13 PM

I have a 21J 1940's BW Raymond Lever Set RR watch, Montgomery dial
beautiful and dead nuts accurate serviced and ready to carry
150 bucks if anyone wants it ... all proceeds go to autistic kids
I can send you a pic if you are interested

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 05:27 PM

Hey Dan, just been cleaning my 1903 J.G. Graves (Sheffield) key wind & set solid silver "The Express English Lever" fob watch. Gave it a wind and it's running sweet as a nut. Polished up the case and the solid silver Albert chain and it's just asking to be worn with my weskit...

Here's a picture of one just like it, though 4 years older: J. G. Graves pocket watch

I've been looking at some Waltham pocket watches on eBay - very tempting...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 05:50 PM

That is a beauty Will, 1870's I think ... beautiful watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:08 PM

Hey Will
Today I can carrying this one a BW Raymond (Elgin) 21J RR watch 1927 used on the Louisville and Nashville Railroad
RR1
RR2
RR3

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:10 PM

That's a beauty, Dan - these things are worth wasting my pension on! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:14 PM

For sure, if you want an RR watch let me know and I will get you one at my cost, Mine are all serviced restored etc. Ebay is ok but sometimes the RR watches cost a lot to fix and service. I got my Amish master friend and mine keep dead nuts time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:28 PM

Here is a very old Hamilton 974, private label
it is my boner watch LOL. JM Boner was a watch inspector for the RR. They were always private jewelers. Very collectable watch cause it is very early

boner

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:42 PM

Favorite carry watch Hamilton 992B steel cased, take a licking for sure. I replaced the melamine dial with an original Hamilton porcelain dial
Hamilton

can you tell I love Hamilton's I have three 992b's I just picked up a 972 lever set 17 Jeweled RR. One of the early ones. Gotta get it serviced. The 972 was one of the last 17J watches approved by the RR's

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 06:44 PM

Also got a 23J Waltham Vanguard ... I am kinda nuts about these things.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:10 PM

Kinda? :-) My favorite carry watch is that Elgin number 16 Dan gave me. She never lies and she's beautiful. Reminds me of an old girlfriend. I'm afraid I wound her up too often.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:38 PM

Dan that's a fine looking Boner. I hope you're keeping it in your trousers, at least when you're out in public.
I told you of the Waltham Vanguard that was handed down to me, well my older brother owns a Hamilton Railway Special, very similar to the one in your photo, that also came from our grandfather.
Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 10:44 PM

gilly thank you my friend. I laugh every time I look at that boner Hamilton.
I have two other railway specials both with the rolled gold cases but the steel ones really don't wear and hold up great for daily use. Fine carry watch the railway specials are. My dad gave me one in the early 60's but when my house was destroyed so was the watch so I have a soft spot in my heart for the railway special for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 06:24 PM

Here is a Canadian 992B 1940's from my collection. It was used on the Canadian Pacific. The guy that sold it to me has the documentation he shared with me.

Need to clean case, runs like all 992b's
Canadian 992B

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 10:24 PM

My Canadian friends, this one is a steal if you can snap it up
Check out this BW Raymond Canadian
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elgin-B-W-Raymond-571-R-R-Watch-/251005965109?pt=Pocket_Watches&hash=item3a711f1335

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 03:45 PM

Just got off a plane and once again I got searched. My 23 Jeweled Waltham Vanguard pocket watch ... I got the same, "We don't see many people carrying clocks in their pocket"

LOL   A railroad man from the past would never fly

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 03:55 PM

Dan, you bad boy, you deserve to be searched - all those goodies you carry about you...

Well, ol' buddy, you got me hooked on Elgin. Now I've a yen for Hamilton and Waltham timepieces.

This Mudcat is a dangerous place to be!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 03:59 PM

Check this out Will, the very elusive Hamilton 936 one of the very early Hamilton RR watches ... so dang hard to find. I think this is the watch that really made Hamilton the best RR watch company ever. It is the company they really looked for. High end Elgin's great also as the Waltham. I love Waltham's especially the vanguard. Now if you find one not working, jump on it, my Amish friend can fix anything

Got to get it serviced ...
936

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 04:26 PM

Dan, it's a drug - hooked, hooked, hooked...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 05:26 PM

Yep, adiction.
My wife made me quit, cold turkey.
I still sneak looks at the offers, but thought of what she will do to me makes me desist from purchase.
A little like sniffing the smoke from someone else's reefer.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 06:11 PM

Yup Q my missus just put me on a short lease after the 936

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 09:04 AM

If you can find a watch that keeps better time than my Elgin 16, grab it.It is so near perfect it would offend the Chinese.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 09:08 AM

LOL so true Kendall. That one is far better than RR time. Tweeked to the max

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 04:40 PM

These are the before shots of my Hamilton 936
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7541257...n/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7541257...in/photostream

Here are my after shots of the 936
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7541257...in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7541257...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7541257...in/photostream

What was done was a full COA, replaced center Jewel, remove the sand (yes sand in it), Hands, crystal, click repair, replace missing plate screw and I had him add the damascas work on the inside of the case cover. 60 bucks and it runs like dead on .. I am smiling my friends

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 05:56 PM

Oops lets try again
BEFORE
B1

B2

AFTER
A1

A2

A3

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 06:34 AM

Dan - that's awesome restoration - and "awesome" isn't a word I use very often! what a beauty!

I'm currently looking at this one: Waltham hunter

It's also got a "best offer" slot on eBay, so I might chance my arm on it. We'll see...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 10:35 AM

That's a beauty Will, nail one on ebay that is in need of repair but has a great case. I will get it fixed for ya

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 05:53 AM

Well, I made the guy an offer he couldn't refuse for the Waltham on eBay - did it privately through his website - and got it for a knock-down price well below the asking. I'm hoping to get it tomorrow.

I've also got my eye on some Hamiltons up for "spares/repair" - I'll PM you if I get one that's worth mailing over for service. Thanks, my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 08:11 AM

They really are works of art.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:55 PM

there are two hamilton 936 size 18 on ebay right now, they are very hard to find ... nail one if ya can ... they only go higher and higher in value. That is the watch that started Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:58 PM

Hey Will
On a hunter case, when you close the front of it ... push down on the stem then close. Most people just snap it closed and it wears out the catch ok ... the proper way is to push down on the stem , then close and release.

cool watch
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 05:22 AM

Absolutely right, Dan. My Uncle Bill was a watchmaker and, when I was about 9, I used to go with him on a Saturday morning to his workshop in a big store in a nearby town. The workshop was fascinating - assorted tickings from various clocks and watches, and amazing tools and bits of timepieces in little trays on his workbenches. He told me quite a lot about them, one way or another, and I think I knew what an escape wheel was before I knew what a guitar was!

I always cringe when I read in a novel something like, "He closed his watch with a snap". Brrr...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 11:47 AM

Awesome Will, then you know watches .. very cool my friend

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 12:35 PM

I've always loved watches - got quite few wristwatches but never really got into pocket watches until I was given the J.G. Graves English Lever Movement a few years ago. The mainspring's just gone in this one, so it's being repaired and serviced at the moment.

As far as wristwatches, go, I'm currently wearing the Longines DolveVita, and I've also got a Longines Grande Classique. I've also got a Jean d'Eve watch with two identical dials, side by side, on it which I bought many, many years ago - never seen one like it since.

But these are all quartz watches and there's nothing to beat a good old mechanical movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 03:22 PM

My little Lady Elgin grade 354 hunter arrived today - all the way across the water from Michigan. It's a 0s size 15 jewel watch dated 1915. Very sweet - and keeps perfect time so far.

Mrs. F's away at the moment, so I'm taking it into town tomorrow to get her name engraved on the cartouche - just a little present for when she gets back...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 12:53 PM

Awesome Will, not nail a 992b :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 12:53 PM

I meant nail a 992b my friend ... can't type

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 01:16 PM

I was checking eBay Dan - the prices shot up...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 01:23 PM

I wonder how many times Will and Dan have run up a price on Ebay bidding against each other   : )

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 01:35 PM

Damn your eyes, frogprince - how did you guess!

We never buy - just bid... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 01:39 PM

Naw, Will is right, we just bid we never win
soon you will be joining the club there guy and then you will go broke on old obsolete technology just like the rest of us Froggie

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 01:57 PM

I am on a mission now for my Amish friend. He is running low on Pocket watch Jewels .. if anyone has some they want to sell I will buy em. I try to keep him in parts .. heck he ususally uses them on my watches anyway and I just give them to him as he does so much for me

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 10:18 AM

Here's a little beauty I picked up at an online auction today (NOT eBay):

Waltham Traveler (Dennison case) half hunter

Looking forward to getting this in the next day or two...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 03:48 PM

looks great Will, great little watches, Yours looks circa 1897 to me
is that right?

I just found a broken Hamilton 930, I mean I have only seen one of these in my life, I think they made them from 1896 - 1896 total of 3 or 4k of them. Mine is a very early edition ... very rare 16 Jewel.. Now I have to get it restored from my Amish friend

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 03:54 PM

frogprince has a 1891 Waltham traveler, he sent it to me for parts. Well it is too good to part so my Amish guy is fixing it for him and I will send it back .. then he can join our I'm going broke on old watches club

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 04:03 PM

I've no date for the half hunter yet, Dan - I'll take a look at the movement when it arrives.

The little silver Victorian ladies' watch should be with you in a day or two. The movement ain't too good but you might find a jewel or two in there...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 08:49 PM

I will cherish that one my friend, that is a beautiful case , wow it will shine up great

Thanks Will

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 12 - 07:32 PM

600!

Fat Albert is still right on the money per the computer.(Elgin 18)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 12 - 08:25 PM

I have an "Estaban" hat, and when I wear it and dark glasses and play Malaguena on the guitar, no one thinks I'm him.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Apr 12 - 05:31 AM

Hey Dan - here are some pics of the Waltham half hunter, which came today. The serial number dates it to 1918... A nice Dennison face.

Outer case

Inner face

Movement

Winds and ticks nicely. The crown stem is a little worn and I might get that serviced.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 07 Apr 12 - 09:05 AM

Its a beauty Will, awesome case, and the movement is nice and clean from what I can see. Look at the damaskeen work .. beautiful watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Apr 12 - 02:04 PM

But doesn't that take an awfully big pocket, Will? The pictures I got show it as at least 2' (almost 2/3 metre) in diameter. I wondered what was taking so long for the images to come up.
                                 : )

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 04:35 AM

Well, you know what they say, fp - it takes a big man to heft a big pocket watch.

What browser are you using? Firefox brings the pics at a reasonable size on my Mac.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 09:44 AM

Hey Will
here is a few of my RR collection
RR

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 10:06 AM

Dan - I'm green with envy! That is one beautiful collection. I've promised myself a Hamilton for my birthday - several months in the future - and I shall stalk the websites until I find the one that takes my fancy.

The RR grades are superb, but the non RR are also lovely to look at. Choices... choices... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 10:23 PM

I've been using AT&T Yahoo for home page and browsing, if only 'cause that's where I get my email, other than generally using Google when going for images.
What actually happened, your watches took a long time to come through, popped up momentarily in the huge scale, then dropped to a very sharp full monitor screen size.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 07:25 AM

Ah - that explains it. I usually make a reduced image copy of photos I post on the next - forgot to do it this time and each of those suckers is 2Mb in size. Sorry for that!

I use the macro setting on my camera to get the fine detail. The movement shots are OK but the lighting of case detail is always a problem - usually too much reflection from the gold-filled/silver plates.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 08:05 AM

Truth be, that's exactly what I thought was goin' on. You did an excellent job with the macros, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 01:14 PM

Just came back from my Amish watchmaker friend. I bought him a stack of jewels he is happier than a horse in a hay field.   Froggie you wait till he finishes your Waltham, then you can say it was junk ... now you are going to join us going broke on old watches club yup .. he will finish next week.

Will, I got it today, thank you so much my dear friend it is beautiful watch .. love the dial also

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 01:39 PM

Will
if you find a great size 18 RR movement, hamilton or Waltham, nail it. I have a couple of mint size 18 RR cases and I will have it cased for you ... sometime you can nail the movements at a fraction of the cost and I have original cases for ya

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 06:12 PM

Thanks Dan - I'll keep a lookout.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 06:49 PM

Cool article from 1908 about a speeding train and RR watches
RR

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 10:08 AM

Interesting article, Dan. And now for something completely different...

This is a Russian Molnija pocket watch from the 1970s - made in the Chelyabinsk factory with a SU3602 movement. Gunmetal case with a ship on the back. Basic stuff - but very sturdy and solidly made - and keeping excellent time at the moment.

Molnija - face

Molnija - movement

Molnija - back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 10:11 AM

Forgot to say - the Molnija was just £20...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 11:25 AM

Will
I have several of them, those are wonderful watches of high quality
great watches for sure and good time keepers. I put one of mine through the washer as I forgot to take it out of my blue jeans and it still ran LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 05:17 PM

I gave one of those watches, one with a train on the back to Spaw's son. He said he loves looking at it .. they take a beating also Will

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 05:38 PM

Hi Dan - I've PM'd you about the Hamilton case and movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 06:50 PM

On macrophotography. I have several ways of getting a detail picture. All three of the following feed easily into my computer. Depends on the degree of quality I want.
1. Full size image. Use an Epsom 4180 photo scanner. Not the best but quick.

2. My Canon with a Canon macro lens. Lighting with a diffusing filter over the halogen lights.

3 The Optex USB Digital magnifier. This handy dandy gadget connects to the computer with a USB port for stills and video clips (haven't used the latter). Magnification up to 200x. Has a built in light, but ambient light sufficient if 1::1 or low plus magnification satisfactory. Good for stamps and coins, etc. as well as watches.
This little gadget with stand fits into a jacket pocket.
Compatable with Windows and Mac OS 10.6.
Found it on sale in the camera department of London Drugs supermart for $89.
Worth a look if you are unfamiliar with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 07:04 PM

Q has forgotten more about pocket watches then I will ever learn by the way

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 01:24 PM

so I bought 16 cases of watch parts for 500 dollars .. a big expense for me but I buy and trade and sell and usually make out in the deal. so I go over to visit my Amish watchmaker friend who just restored my rare Hamilton 930 ... jaw dropping beautiful restoration. And yea I get you money is no good you owe me nothing. So I figured he would do that so I go get a case of hamilton parts to give him. He looks at them, refused to accept .. I said Mahlon I bought 16 cases of parts the hamilton parts were for you .. He said you have some very rare Ball Hamilton parts here, this case alone is work more than 1000 dollars maybe two ... so he made me take them home

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 02:04 PM

Dan - that man must be an Amish saint...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 02:12 PM

His dad lives up the road from me. He loves watches also but can't afford the really good ones.. I think I am going to give him one of my Hamiton's .. He needs a nice dress one for church

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 02:29 PM

Cool, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 03:14 PM

I have a Canadian Hamilton 992B in the original Sturdy Case 1951. Just replaced the melamine 24 hr Canadian dial with a porcelain 24 hr Canadian dial. Beautiful watch, original and dead nuts accurate. serviced and ready to carry ... I have 250 USD in the watch and will sell it for that price .. You won't find one in this condition under 400 - 500 bucks

Why, well I want a Ball Hamilton since I have the parts to restore one and they are expensive and I have 3 other 992B's. Anyone interested PM me

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 07:55 PM

I pulled out a tiny little bottle, Mahlon said you see all these tiny balance stems, well they are for a bunn special and each one is 55 dollars a piece if you can even find them ... My Mrs isn't mad at me anymore for spending 500 bucks on parts LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:45 PM

Will
read your PM
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 10:40 AM

Hey Dan - got one of these?


John Harrison's historic "H4" chronometer

Worth 250 bucks of anyone's money!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 10:57 AM

now that is eye candy Will .... wow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Apr 12 - 03:11 PM

Hamilton 930 Before and After
Thank you Jim Haney for the part that I needed.

My Watchmaker did a pretty good job I think and all original. I have to find a better crown and sometime I will get a better dial

Before Photo's

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/6938579834/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/7084656569/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/7084656743/in/photostream


After Photo's

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/7084637117/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/6938561472/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/7084637721/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/6938562048/in/photostream

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 10:08 AM

Boy I clean house on the watch parts. Selling very well ...
Kendall got a great 1894 PS Bartlett RR for his birthday

He just doesn't know it yet LOL

My Amish guy has a Hamilton 936 like mine that he wants to sell It is a beauty .. He told me 150 USD if anyone is interested. I said I would ask

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 04:14 PM

Hey froggie, it is on its way back home to you ... now take a look at it and it keeps perfect time.. so no more throwing it around :-)

frogprince

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 07:25 PM

I know it now and it's a work of art! Dead accurate. Dan,by Jove, you did it again!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 09:20 PM

I picked that thing up at some kind of flea market, just thinking it could look mellow in some photos. I can't for the life of me remember for sure what I payed for it, except I'm sure it was two bucks absolute tops; I keep thinking I may have got it for a quarter. Now I have to buy a watch chain, to at least wear it on one for occasions once in a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 10:25 PM

Just ordered a chain; couldn't even find any around town.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 11:20 PM

I gave you one, a big old RR chain cause I figured you didn't have one.
and just use it, ya can't break anything that I can't have fixed, it is 1891 in your pocket, think of the history that thing has seen and now it is alive again

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 03:57 AM

Dan - 1928 Waltham on its way to you - check your PMs...

And the 992B is keeping dead accurate time - wonderful! Thanks again. I've ordered a nice, chunky, rolled-gold chain to accompany it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:31 AM

If sometime you are interested my brother in another dead nuts accurate high end. Check out my Elgin Father Time 21 Jeweled lever set.
father time one

father time two



father time three

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:32 AM

Oh my gosh Will, that's a beauty, I will cherish it thank you wow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 10:57 AM

Hey froggie, I didn't do anything nice for you tee hee, Just ask Will once you start on these great old watches ya can't quit on these things and then ya go broke buying em. .. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 11:36 AM

Dan - that Elgin Father Time is beautiful - PM me with a price if you're in a selling mood...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 11:44 AM

Well, at least the chain I ordered didn't cost much.
Judy has so many collectible frogs around here, I don't dare start a collection of anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 07:50 AM

My birthday present, a Waltham RR 1894 is still right on the money after three days. Thanks again, Dan. Did you get the CD?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 01:18 PM

I did Kendall and I been playing the heck out of it ... gosh you are so talented, your stories amazing entertaining ..

and thank you for the photo, I will cherish it too

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 08:25 PM

I'm trying to believe that my old two-bit junk watch is setting here looking cool and ticking away. Question in your PMs, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 10:19 PM

I've got afternoon shift at the art gallery Wednesday. I usually just try to have a clean shirt on. But this time, just for a first excuse, I'll put on decent slacks and a vest that Judy made me a while back, so I can wear this with the chain across in proper traditional style for a first time. Dan says this isn't really a valuable watch. That's the one thing he's mistaken about.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 May 12 - 03:39 AM

A vest (we call 'em waistcoats or "weskit" over here in the UK) is an absolute must for carrying a pocket watch. I have a brushed velvet one that I bought many years ago - many years as testified by the enlarged gap between the buttons and the buttonholes! - and a nice suede one.

A good, matching chain is also nice. The size watches I have - mainly 16s - and the casings really demand a nice chunky link size. I'm scouring eBay at the moment - picked up a couple recently and have another in my sights at the moment.

Sigh... will this madness never end... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 May 12 - 10:44 AM

It doesn't my brother, it just gets more expensive. A guy starts out with 7 jewels, then goes to 17, then wants only high end RR watches 21 Jeweled or more ... then only wants rare high end RR watches .. sigh .. the madness never ceases

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 May 12 - 10:47 AM

Even worse my brother is when you move up to the rare high end RR watches, they are all huge size 18 and ya can't even carry them. Your britches would be down to your ankles if you did LOL

madness I tell ya, and I bet we got froggie hooked I do

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 May 12 - 10:58 AM

And even crazier is when you do go back to the early rare RR watches, you then go back to 17 Jewels LOL It is all insanity

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 12 - 03:33 PM

Out of curiosity, I bought one of those 27 jewel watches made in China. Automatic, too. Cost under $100.
Quality? Will it last 100 years? Dunno. Seems to run OK. Haven't checked long term accuracy, since I don't wear it constantly, and the automatic wind gives out. Large and clunky compared to an Omega, etc.

Has anyone come across a study of these new cheapies?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 May 12 - 04:01 PM

What make is it, Q? Some Chinese-made watches are high quality and expensive, and even 40-year old Russian-made watches like the Molnija are very solid and dependable - as well as cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 12 - 04:11 PM

I bought the watch new from Stauer last year. They have several models, mostly wrist. The name is "Stauer," but similar new watches appear on Ebay under various names. They are either 23 or 27 jewel. It is not one of the older good Russian (Zenit) etc., types. (Older Chinese? Those I don't know).
I have commented on them before.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 May 12 - 05:30 PM

Very, very mixed reviews about Stauer watches - some people are happy with what they've got - others have complained bitterly. The hard-core watch forum guts don't rate them - but they're hard-core watch freaks.

My view would be: if it gives you $100-worth of timekeeping - in your eyes - it's done OK for you! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 02 May 12 - 11:10 AM

Here I am, now, faced with a terribly serious delimna; I'm not about to wear this watch knocking around every day. But I want to keep it running steady for a few days, to see how close it actually holds the time. Will one of these things run for a couple of days on a winding, or does it take at least once each day?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 May 12 - 11:31 AM

I usually wind mine once a day - same time each day - but I've missed a day sometimes. Some stop - some continue running.

Why not wind it and leave it for 48 hours - then check it. If it's running then that will give you an accuracy test and you can wind it again. If it's stopped, then reset it and check & wind it 24 hours later.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 May 12 - 02:46 PM

One full winding each morning ... only some very high grade RR watches run longer .. yours is not ... a 992b will run for 50 hours but you still should wind every morning.

Hey here is a size 18 Illinois RR grade. MINT PERFECT this watch is like it just came out of the factory ... lever set

225 if anyone wants it

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/6990263060/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/6990262500/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75412578@N04/6990262536/in/photostream/

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 May 12 - 02:48 PM

You can tell I been buying watches for some years. Now I am after only the very rare ones ... yup

That Illinois is dead nuts accurate, silveroid cased

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 May 12 - 03:32 PM

You old tempter, you! Elgin Father Time for me at the moment, Dan - perhaps an Illinois another time.

Do you have a Bunn Special, out of curiosity?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 May 12 - 03:58 PM

no I am looking for one my friend .. that is on my wish list

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 May 12 - 04:59 PM

Heads-up notice-
Tom Harris Auctions, May 4. Bid today!

Many fine watches, some will go cheap.
Many old pocket watches.

I get auction notices through liveauctioneers.com
This one at http://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/29535?from=NL477

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 May 12 - 11:59 AM

Hamilton 927, the 927 is very hard to find, it is an early railroad grade watch. This one is perfect in a Philadelphia sidewinder case .. what a beauty ... my latest find
927front

927back

movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 12 - 03:23 PM

That's a beauty, Dan - another one for me to look out for... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:44 PM

Hey Will
I would sell your friend my 23 Jeweled Waltham Vanguard for 250 if he wants it ... you can tell I am after the ultra rare anymore

LOL

vanguard

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:45 PM

Oh that's not damage on the bow, it is a string tag to identify the watch so if I kick off my kids don't sell them in a yard sale LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 May 12 - 03:42 AM

what's the date on the Vanguard, Dan? He really is after something 19th century to kick off with.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 May 12 - 08:43 AM

Dan, do you still have that size 18 Illinois RR grade for sale?

If so, perhaps next month...

The Father Time is just superb - I've been drooling over it all morning!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 May 12 - 11:29 AM

Will
yes the 18 size Illinois RR lever set is yours next month if you want it ... it is dead nuts accurate runner for sure and mint condition top to bottom. The Vanguard is 1928 so he may not be interested. Like all my watches, cleaned serviced and accurate, all original. I been doing this a while :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 15 May 12 - 07:24 PM

Dan, I'm a little afraid that you may have     created a monster here

(Apart from this monkey business, I've been having a ball showing off the watch to folks around here. Dan, thanks bucketsfull !)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 May 12 - 10:42 PM

Those are wonderful photo's Dean
thank you for making me smile

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 May 12 - 02:53 PM

Wow what a deal check these clocks out, I am not a clock collector but I know what to look for, Found these in a yard sale going to see my mom. They are 1920's art clocks made my LOX. Very rare and worth hundreds each ... bought them both for 60 bucks .. wish I could do that everyday. Working perfect

Coool
Lox

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 May 12 - 03:00 PM

LUX not Lox ... I do that everytime ... They are the rare Lux clocks

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:56 AM

Well folks, I need to sell my pocket watch, need the bucks to replace my dead iPhone.
It's an American gold filled Fahy case, with a Labrador movement. I believe they are made by Omega.
It runs well and keeps really good time.
Any idea what it might be worth?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 May 12 - 04:12 PM

Hey Will
have a look at this Hamilton 926 circa 1899
Mint
926

back 926

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 May 12 - 04:13 PM

926 is all original, perfect case, perfect dial ... lever set

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 May 12 - 10:24 PM

don't know what that black spot was on photo but here is the 926 better shot
926

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 25 May 12 - 04:17 AM

Very sweet, Dan! I'll PM you.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 May 12 - 11:00 AM

John
I missed your post, I am so sorry PM me and if you can send me a picture I can tell you for sure

thanks bro
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 12 - 02:47 PM

The Hamilton 926 was sold to Canadian railroaders, some with jewelers name on dial, all with 24-hour dial. 17-jewel. Size 18. They were marked adjusted on the bridge, but I don't know how many positions- is yours marked?

A cheaper, good pocket watch is the 916, not railroad acceptable but a good timepiece. Often an be had for under $100 in good condition, and the 16 size is easy to carry.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 26 May 12 - 10:09 AM

Mine is marked Adjusted Q. This one really is perfect and a perfect time keeper.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 May 12 - 05:16 AM

I can't fathom why this thread is so popular. Almost two years and close to 700 hits.Some threads don't last more than a few days.
I left my Elgin 16 at home and I feel naked without it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 May 12 - 08:08 AM

Ah, Kendall - it only takes one or two dedicated fools souls and there you go!

If you're feeling bereft of an Elgin, I have two or three down here in Sussex you can make use of... or a Waltham or two... or a Hamilton 992B... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 May 12 - 12:22 PM

I'll bet you do! I don't dare ask how much. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 May 12 - 01:14 PM

My watch rental rates are very reasonable...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 12 - 07:05 AM

Ladies and Gents... presenting... an Elgin 18s open face pocket watch from 1902:

Face

Movement

I picked this up at an online auction house in Bath (Gardiner Houlgate) for £75 last week, and it arrived this morning. Like all these things, you see one photo - it's not like eBay - ask the auction house if it's working, bid and hope for the best!

Anyways, it's working beautifully and keeping good time so far. It's in superb condition for a watch that's 110 years old - and what a weight! It's the first 18s watch I've acquired and it's a heavy bugger!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 12 - 07:07 AM

Mmm... that link to the face should be:

Face

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:14 PM

I have two of those beautiful bits of ballast.When I carry it and my .38 I can hardly keep my pants up.

I didn't bring either to the UK and I feel naked!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:29 PM

That's a beauty Will, looks like a Philadelphia Case also
My Illinois has the same case

awesome

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:30 PM

Kendall, it's waiting to be held by you when you come down south. I'm just looking for an anchor chain to make into an Albert for it!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:33 PM

Dan, the case is a Keystone "Silveroid" nickel one with screw bezel and screw back. When the bezel's off, you can see a slot where the lever for a lever-set movement could fit.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 29 May 12 - 05:49 PM

I think it was Q that said the Silveroid cases like yours and mine were actually more expensive at the time then the gold ones. Keystone made fine cases, you see them in most RR grade watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 30 May 12 - 02:49 AM

An Albert? Wuzzat?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 May 12 - 02:59 AM

Sorry Kendall - thought the word was the same in the US as in the UK. Over here an 'Albert' is the standard watch chain with a T-bar and a shorter fob chain at one end, and a claw clasp for the watch at the other end. Known as an 'Albert' because of it popularity with Albert, the then Prince of Wales - later Edward VII. The 'double Albert' is the one with two equal lengths of chain running from the T-bar.

As for the 'Albert' body piercing - just don't ask!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Jun 12 - 03:22 PM

I picked up another Molnija with SU3602 movement on eBay recently - cheap as chips, but with a fantastic movement. Haven't measured it yet, but it looks like around 14s or 12s...

Little Molnija - face

Little Molnija - movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 10:21 PM

Very Very Rare Hamilton 937. The lever set 937 was full railroad grade. I only saw one other guy that had one since they only make around 8000 of them, check out my serial number
what a beauty and what a find

front

inside

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 10:25 PM

sorry here is the inside and back, also note the jeweler name on the movement, Hamilton did that in the early days

inside

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: David C. Carter
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 06:08 AM

Dan,I already thanked you over the phone for the Elgin Pocket Watch.

I just wanted to say it again in public,as it were.

It goes with me every where.Can't imagine being without it!

Thanks again.

David

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 08:48 AM

Most welcome Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 09:51 AM

I have a Waltham from about 1900 that has been in the family for a long time.

It's open face with the winding stem on the right (3:00 o'clock). Condition is a bit rough.

I want to find a serial # but the movement will not come flip up completely. Only about 1/4 inch.

Is there a trick to this?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 10:30 AM

That 937 is gorgeous, Dan; what year would that be?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 12:46 PM

Froggie, the Hamilton is 1898 a real rare beauty.

PDG, you have a swing out dust proof case, yes pull up on the stem, it will release the mechanism fully and you pull the movement up to see the serial number.   don't be afraid to pull it, sometimes they stick a bit, don't torque it just a straight pull. Likewise swing it back, press down the stem

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 02:29 PM

The swing out case was popular in the days of the fine railroad watch. I have one with the Canadian Pacific name and beaver on the bridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 02:42 PM

Thanks, Dan!

Seems what I have is an American Waltham Watch Company item from 1890.

Sidewinder type, Arabic numerals, swing-out movement, open face case, serial # 4710XXX.

Condition: all hands are fine shape but crystal is badly cracked. A part of face is damaged, an area about the size of a match head at the very margin. When wound up, it runs so main spring must be good. Case looks like peuter so nuttin' fancy.

Taking offers!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 03:21 PM

Description of silveroid metal used in these watch cases.

http://www.antique-pocket-watch.com/pocket-watch-case.html

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 03:49 PM

So pewter is not the actual material since it is almost all tin with a little lead. I was going to use he term "base metal".

The common case material is "Silveroid" appears to have become the standard name for this metal that consisted of 45% nickel, 54% copper and 1% manganese. This metal was fairly hard wearing and could withstand the rigors of everyday use..."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 11:33 AM

Wow !! came home from work and my misses made some really nice necklaces and other jewelery ..
Out of my spare antique pocket watch cases !!!! LOL

have to admit they look great ... but Dang !!

it is legal to shoot your spouse :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 07:16 AM

Will, I picked up one of those chains at a car boot sale in England, and didn't even know what I had. Thanks. It goes well with my Elgin 16.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 07:47 AM

Well done, Kendall. Those RR grade watches really suit a nice chunky chain. Is there a little separate chain length near the T-bar for a fob such as a medallion or a coin?

I'd love a solid gold chain - but look at the price of gold! I've got two solid silver chains, which were within my price bracket, and they look great with nickel or silver-cased watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 03:01 PM

well right now In Hamilton's I have
910, 912, 924, 925,926,927, 930,933,935,936,937,940, 941,972,974,975,976,978,992, 992b

cool huh

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 03:28 PM

I have a beautiful Hamilton RR 936 if anyone wants it for 225. This one is awesome and keeps dead nuts time. I just had it serviced. I have one in my collection, this one is a spare. Train engraved on the back case ... all original

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 04:23 AM

Got any pics of the 936, Dan?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 05:24 PM

my brother, I put it on ebay with a buy it now and someone jumped on it.   but I have the Illinois if you still want it ...

sorry bro. Now I do have one other 936 but I have to think if I want to sell it.   What I am trying to do is get one of each 936 models. They made them with no markings, then with adjusted 5 position marking, then one with 936 adj 5 positions on the last run ...
I have two of them so far

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 03:10 PM

I got my Bunn Special!

1923 Illinois Bunn Special

I shall have to put two or three other watches up for sale on eBay to pay for this - but it's worth it to buy one of the Rolls-Royces of the pocket watch...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 04:28 PM

Its a beauty, absolute beauty.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 04:41 PM

The one I want Will is the size 18's from the early 1900's. Your version is wonderful. Now very careful not to drop it. The size 16 Bunn Special uses a balance staff #1506 ... very rare never find them and when you do they cost a fortune. However you have me and I have 52 of them so if something happens I got ya covered.

My Rolls Royce is still the Hamilton Ball 23 Jewel .. that one will set back my wallet for sure.   My second is the Hamilton 946 which I did nail ... they made all of 305 of those guys ... that's it ... I got one being restored. Now I could sell the 941, 946 and probably get my Ball but ... not near as much fun as finding one to restore

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 04:51 PM

I got a collect of movements, I paid like 5-8 bucks a movement - dirt cheap- but the Elgin movements go from 1879-1892 each year wonderful stuff. Also one 1889 seth thomas and three 1860's AWC movement (before Waltham) best 130 bucks I ever spent

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 06:26 PM

Dan, your collection sounds fabulous. The pride of mine, at the moment is the lovely Elgin 571 B.W. Raymond, the Elgin Father Time and the Hamilton 992B - all from your hands! The Bunn Special will be a nice addition to those three.

Incidentally, the case for the B.W. Raymond - which you so generously gave me - was wearing, and the bow was a wire replacement for the original. So, I took the plunge and found a watchcase maker who could fashion me a bow in the style of the case - brass with gilding - and he also re-nickeled and gilded the outer case. I pondered long and hard before getting this done, as originality is always to be preferred. In the end, I thought what the heck - I'll go for it... Hope you don't mind!

Elgin with new bow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 06:55 PM

beautiful Will, he did a wonderful job ... wow .. love it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 03:48 AM

I don't know what you thought of the price I paid for the Bunn Special - $325 US - whether too low or too high. One of the problems about collecting these things over here in the UK is that they rarely come up for auction, either on eBay or in online auction houses.

You can pick up a standard Waltham in a nice Dennison case any old time for a reasonable price, partly because they made so many and partly because they exported so many to this country originally. There are far fewer Elgin watches on the market, very very few Hamiltons - and a Bunn Special is a rarity. I just had to grab this one when I spotted it. I used a sniping service (on your advice some time ago) and got in my bid just under the wire - and just under my maximum!

There's much more available to go for in the US, but then we have to pay customs & import duties on the item when it gets to the UK, plus whatever shipping charges the seller wants to charge.

Thanks for the heads-up on the Bunn balance staff. I'll be wearing kid gloves when I handle this watch!

Glad you approved of the Elgin case work, Dan. I might, at some stage, send the watch over to you for your Amish friend to service. It's been sent hither and thither for this work and I think it needs an adjustment. I think I'd rather send it to him via you and pay his costs and all postage. It's not that it mat or may not be cheaper - it's just that there are so few good horologists over here these days, especially ones who know about RR grade watches. Would that be OK with you?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 09:22 AM

Will you did good on the price of the Bunn, they are always expensive and that is about the price you see here in the states also ... no worries you did fine bro.

anything you need serviced. My watch guy won't charge me, I do so much for him that he just does it for me ... sometimes on big jobs I have to fight with him to take my check

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 09:42 AM

You did just fine on that Bunn, Will ... next watch you have you eye on something let me know ok. Some high end RR watches have bad balance staff's. and you can get them half price ... I have balance staff's for darn near every RR watch ever made and it is an easy fix. Fact is, watches need serviced anyway and fixing a balance staff is no issue at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 01:38 PM

Thanks Dan - that's really good to know. I'll get the Elgin 571 back over to you in the next week or so. You can see the case work and new bow for yourself, and your Amish buddy can give it a service and adjustment I'm happy with whatever it costs and will obviously pay all postage.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 01:55 PM

cost ya nothing Will, just needed time via meantime screws ... get it right back to you.

Hey this is one I been carrying a lot lately
Waltham Vanguard 23 Jeweled. My watchmaker precision timed it across all 6 positions. It keep atomic time LOL Amazing

23 Waltham vanguard

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 02:29 PM

Wow Dan - that's a beaut!

I've just been watching an old edition of 'The Antiques Road Show' on Brit TV. There was a Patek Phillippe pocket watch there - enamelled, crusted with pearls - supposed to be the "best" watch make in the world. Well, it may have such a snob value in the marketplace, but these RR watches have a fantastic charm - give me one of them any day!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 02:38 PM

completely agree Will, my favorite was a recent episode of "pawn Stars" The owner bought a keywind AWC Wm Ellery. Well he went nuts for it because it was inscribed to a civil war vet to the other civil war vet in 1880. Paid 1300 for it ...

Well all my watch friends and myself agree. The watch was re-cased, it was not of the 1880's as stated. The engraving was way too new to be authentic ... bottom line, nice case but it is a 300 dollar watch tops on a real good day .. mostly 150 -200 normal

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 03:04 PM

Odd... I haven't followed this thread but I, too, was just watching a snippet of a TV show (setting up my VCR for Swamp People) and a guy had a supposed Patek in front of a bunch of antique peeps and they were haggling with him over his price. I clicked on this thread only because of the number of posts. Rather odd.

Youse guys got some cool watches!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 05:10 PM

here is my Hamilton 992, 21 Jeweled RR watch size 16
beautiful and all original

hamilton 992 RR 21 Jeweled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:12 AM

Just picked up an 1890 Elgin gilt-cased hunter from an online auction house for a few pounds. The estimate was very cheap and it wasn't selling. I hadn't viewed it, so I guessed it was not working and I bid at the last minute before it was passed over for the next lot. I initially bought it to sell on for spares or repair on eBay. Anyway, it arrived this morning and - blow me, it winds and ticks OK!

One thing fooled me though. It was described as a keyless watch, so I pulled on the crown to set the hands - it didn't budge... So I thought to meself it's broken and that's why it was cheap. Then I looked a little closer at the bezel, saw a small pry point and hooked my nail under it. Off came the glass and its rim and - lo and behold: there was a lever! I'd never seen that arrangement before. Anway, the hands have been set and it's sitting beside the Bunn Special now, which is acting as a time check on the newcomer.

The inside of the case has the word America and a small engraving of the US flag, and there's some fine engraving all over it - cartouche on the front and a floral motif on the back. Not bad for £5 plus £10 packing and postage...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:16 AM

Forgot pics to my last post:

Elgin 1890 face

Elgin 1890 movement.jpg

Elgin 1890 case front.jpg
Elgin 1890 case back.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:22 AM

Damn - links not working - here goes again:

Elgin 1890 movement

Elgin 1890 face

Elgin 1890 case front

Elgin 1890 case back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 05:02 AM

Well, the Elgin's been running for 24 hours solid - just checked the time: perfect.

I would say that's a result.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 12:26 PM

Will this is your watch grade ... nice find

Grade:        96
Class:        6
Model:        2-4
Named for:        None
Description:        Grade 96, 18 size, 7 jewels, made about 1891.
Hunter case movement. Lever set. Full plate.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 01:44 PM

Thanks Dan - can you explain to a simpleton what the categories "Grade", "Class" and "Model" might cover?

One thing I also meant to ask you: Does the fact that the movement was lever set - even though cased in a fancy hunter case - mean that it would have been intended for the RR market?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 01:58 PM

no will, it is not railroad grade even then. Lever set were the new "fashion" after they came out so even on low grade watches you will see them. RR grade that early would have to be at least 15 Jeweled or 17 Jeweled and "adjusted" They had pretty specific grades ...

Grades are a classification, all companies had their own and it really only applies their own movement. Each company had their own way and you have to look up to determine if it was , low grade for general consumption as this one is, or mid grade hence more expensive or high grade IE meant for RR certification. More important then the number of jewels is the movement and the number of adjustments that were made to keep the time. Temp for one, positions etc ... on Elgin class 6 is general population lower cost ... Now on other makers like Howard class 6 is adjusted and highly tuned.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 01:59 PM

It is still one hell of a nice watch and hard to find them in running condition in their original hunter case. You did good very good

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 02:12 PM

I am sorry I think classification deals with size on Elgin.   Q is much more knowledgeable than I am ..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 02:20 PM

Thanks for the info, Dan - that's really useful. The movement looks very similar to the 1901 18s Elgin I have. Interestingly, the 1890 watch balance wheel moves very quickly - by comparison the 1901 balance wheel looks to be a lot slower, but the 1901 is gaining several minutes a day. Looks like it needs a clean and service...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 10:13 PM

Will
they always go fast pick up time then eventually slow up when they need cleaning and oil. You are right on your 18, that is what it needs for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 09:14 AM

Well - here's something a little different - a video of my Bunn Special with music attached! I set a little tune to the watch's tick - comes in around 0.42'...

Time and Motion

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 09:49 AM

I love it Will, awesome

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 01:35 PM

Thanks to my good friend, Dan, (Olddude) I now have an Illinois RR watch made in 1889. It is a thing of beauty and a real treasure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 10:57 PM

Oh Captain, you are most welcome. I know you are having fun with it and it has a great home

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 05 Aug 12 - 02:02 PM

how is it keeping time for you Kendall? should be smack on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Aug 12 - 04:16 PM

Hamilton 935
back

front

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 05 Aug 12 - 06:55 PM

We had A HUGE family gathering today and of course, I showed it around. Mr. and Mrs. Frogprince were here so we talked pocket watches. Everyone who saw it was impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 05 Aug 12 - 09:17 PM

Did you "whip it out to see their reaction" like you PM'd me :-)
still chuckling about that one captain

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Aug 12 - 10:43 PM

Must say that Kendall's new toy is stunning. Dan, did you note that series of numbers scratched free-hand inside the back? Or did you do that youself, so we would all acratch our heads wondering what they mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 05 Aug 12 - 11:08 PM

Those are Jeweler marks, they indicate when the watch was last serviced. In the 1800's up to early 1920's or so they would scratch the inside of the case with a jeweler number. Each Jeweler had their own system of keeping track of service. They are part of the watch history. Every watch of that era has them

great question by the way ..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Aug 12 - 02:46 PM

They could also be numbers of a pawn ticket - pawnbrokers used to do the same thing, in case a tag was lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 06 Aug 12 - 03:18 PM

I don't remember if I asked Dan this question before, but if I did, it's that old timers disease.

I have a Waltham 18 RR watch, serial number 18083153. The serial number chart is confusing to me,and I winder if you can tell me when it was made?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Aug 12 - 04:07 PM

Kendall - that would date it to 1911.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Aug 12 - 04:20 PM

It is model 1892 Kendall, however that model was made for quite some time so 1911 is correct from Will I think

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Aug 12 - 04:58 PM

Greg, possible I guess never heard that, but all old watches have the service number scratched by the Jewelers. They wanted to keep track of the service dates and more importantly they wanted to make sure you did not take it elsewhere to be fixed and then bring it to them saying they didn't fix it right ... each Jeweler had their own system, some used numbers, others used letters and dates all are unique to that specific jeweler. I am fascinated by them as they are part of the history of the watch. My Hamilton 941 has the scratches from one of the Railroad watch inspectors

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Aug 12 - 05:11 PM

Greg
your balance staff is going in the mail tomorrow bro

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Aug 12 - 06:26 PM

Great Dan, thanks for the balance staff! Service above & beyond the call for sure.

I know that you're correct about the jewlers/watchmakers numbers, I'm just saying that occasionally in addition to those, you may find a pawnbroker's number as well. Guess I didn't make that clear first time around.

Be well-

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:58 AM

757 i'M ALWAYS AMAZED AT THE NUMBER OF POSTS ON THIS SUBJECT.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 01:25 PM

For many starting watch collectors, the idea of high jewels means better timekeeping. In fact it has nothing to do with the quality of the watch. Watches are fully jeweled at 17 .. all additional jewels are not related to any moving part, IE, cap jewels for oil etc. The railroads had a very close relationship with the watch companies and especially Webb C. Ball the RR watch master. He had his own company and for marketing reasons introduced higher jeweled watches "smokestack jewels" to try and out advertise the other watch companies. The other companies followed suite. The RR's then changed the standard to 21J or above. Why, well everyone would have to buy a new watch and there were kickbacks to the RR. Watches are great because and only because of the movement and the number of adjustments made to the watch. The more adjustments, the better the movement and hence the better the watch. A 17 Jeweled Hamilton 936 is a marvel of engineering at 17 Jewels. It will compete and beat 23 Jeweled watches. Why, because of the movement and the 23J watches are only really using 17 for the working movement.
As the years went on, higher Jeweled was an indication of better movement only because RR's now required 21 or above. The Jewels have nothing to do with the quality. It is all in the engineering and adjustments an old watch can make. RR grade 17J watches are a marvel and there is no difference in accuracy between a Hamilton 936 at 17J or a Hamilton 941 at 21J. all about the movement and the number of adjustments that can be made to the watch.
Likewise, 5 positions is really it. Watches with 6 positions like the 992B or Vanguard mean nothing. That 6th position is stem down and even new they only said it was good for 15 secs stem down. You don't carry a watch in that position LOL but for marketing, it sounds good

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 01:30 PM

Oh and you have to be careful with early high jeweled swiss watches. Many were listed at 21J but were 7 J with red glass added on the end caps to look like Jewels. We call them "swiss fakes" I pass on any early swiss watches except zenith

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 01:36 PM

By the way, some of the very early RR watches were 15 Jeweled like the Illinois ... but they were adjusted to 5 positions and are a sought after marvel of engineering that will kick the butt of any newer unadjusted watch with a high jewel count

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 02:07 PM

The Canadian RR's got it right, they accepted the RR grade 17J watches for a very long time .. because of their accuracy and knowing the higher Jeweled made no difference. Making a RR employee buy a new watch was very expensive. They cost an average of two full weeks salary in the day ..They would accept a Hamilton 972 adj 5 positions or a Hamilton 926 for a very long time as they should. I guess the watch companies didn't want to give them the kickback's or they refused them.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 07:32 AM

I just checked my 1911 Waltham and it is dead on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 01:51 PM

Nothing wrong with your Illinois Captain. Ya had a hair stuck on your hairspring ... LOL ... do you own a cat LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 08:46 PM

Well I been wanting a nice Hamilton 924. Mine is a bit ratty. So I see one on ebay ... well I lost the bid .. usually if I want it I will get it but money is a factor. So I visit my Amish watchmaker and he comes out with this Hamilton 924 and gives it to me as a gift. The exact one I was bidding on cause the serial number is the same. He goes, I knew you wanted one and I wanted to get you one so I had the Englishman down the road bid on it for me on ebay ... OMG I was bidding against myself and didn't know it ... what are the odds huh .. I was stunned and what a nice thing to do for me

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 07:55 AM

What goes around comes around my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 08:54 PM

Olddude's comments re high 'jewel' count could apply to the 23-27 jewel watches now being made in China. Stauer, selling cheap jewelry and gee whizbang watches is one of the outfits selling these marvels, some under $100.
On the whole, they are clunky, and I suppose not too bad, but high jewel count does not necessarily mean precision machining and assembly.
I suckered and bought one. It runs OK, but is obviously not the best workmanship. I had to reset every week or so. I wouldn't insult the watchmaker I use by asking him to regulate it. It has resided in a desk drawer for some months now, and will never be used.

Don't sucker, a $10 Timex probably is just as accurate.

I have quit collecting pocket watches, but yes, I wouldn't mind having one of those 23j Hamilton Ball gems.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 09:43 AM

THREAD DRIFT ALERT.

Not antique, but does anyone have experience of the "Seiko 5" 21 jewel mechanical wristwatches? Just curious what folks think of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 07:31 PM

768. I have a pocket watch made in China. It is pretty, keeps good time and I can see the guts from both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 03:36 PM

I got an email from a guy on the internet that I bought from before. He offered me a Waltham 23j vanguard and a Hamilton 935 for 150 bucks. Well I jumped on it. Both run, I don't need the vanguard as I already own a mint one but this one is earlier and needs the dial replace. However the Hamilton 935 (I guess he didn't know what it was) Is a pretty scarce watch. They only made 4000 of them thats it. I will have my watchmaker replaced the vanguard dial with an original and dump it. Beautiful watch in every regard but bad dial that is easy to replace.   Great great deal

Q do you own a Hamilton 926?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 04:28 PM

No, no 926.
I have only two Hamilton watches- 992B, and a 940 Special 21j adjusted (uncommon).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 07:54 PM

Well you have one now, it is being serviced at the moment but I will send it to you

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 07:56 PM

I got two of them Q ... so just PM me your address again ok

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 09:46 PM

Pm'd with many thanks

There are a lot of 17j pocket watches out there, many can be had cheap, a good group for a beginner? Good timekeepers, 18s, 16s and smaller.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 05:29 PM

Greg F.
Those 21-24j Seiko 5 automatics are interesting. They seem to be clunky, some 13mm in thickness. Add 2 mm to that and you have the thickness of an 18 size pocket watch. I like a thinner watch on my wrist.
The Movado model I wear is only 5 mm thick- it does require a battery, though.

The reviews I find have nothing about accuracy or longevity, only features, price, etc.

The 21j Seiko 5s are offered for as little as $65 with cloth strap. Waterproof to 33 meters and automatic wind, they seem to be good value, but I can't find any long term use evaluations.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 05:48 PM

Counterfeit Seiko 5s on Ebay. Read this on eBay.ca
Counterfeit Seiko 5 utomatics, the Easy Tell: eBay Guides

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:08 PM

Thanks for the info, Q - they ARE clunky - at least the one I saw. But the price had me intrigued....IF they're any good. Unreal that someone would take the trouble to counterfeit them - they're not worth that much in the first place!

Best, Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 09:30 PM

Greg, look for an Omega Automatic, esp. Seamaster, used. Neat, thin, superb wristwatch. I got an old one in a box of misc. jewelry at an auction.
It's a collector watch, I see several on eBay, but keep an eye out at auctions.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 09:00 AM

Thanks for the tip, Q! Will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 12:15 PM

Omega seamaster ... Oh hell yes ... Q got it right for sure. Incredible watch greg ... wish I had one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 04:32 PM

The Seamasters are 21-23j depending on grade.

Does anyone remember the incabloc Swiss watches of years ago? They were very reasonable. I have one with a Ramona label, 21 jewel. It keeps pretty good time but probably dirty as a dust bin. I dug it out today and wound it to see how long it would tick away.

I was reminded of this by the Seiko 5 and Stauer Chinese watch mentions.

Getting back to the pocket watches, I picked up a 24hr dial Waltham model 1883 from eBay. Canadian RR approved. Very good looking, but probably needs a good clean. A lot out there, most under $100 in the plain cases, but $1700-2000 if they have the Canadian Pacific beaver or Canadian Time Service label on the bridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Mark Ross
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 11:58 PM

I have a Wakmann, 17 jewels, that says Incabloc, with a steel case engraved with a diesel engine on the back. It keeps damn good time. I think I paid $20 for it at the flea market here.


Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 09:50 AM

Mark that is one of the "swiss Walthams" they bought out the name after the company folded ... nothing wrong with that one, they keep good time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 11:26 AM

Olddude, I must disagree.
Wakmann was a NY company that brought over very good Swiss watches, and sold the watches now known as Breitling under their name.
Mark, you may have a very good watch.

Here is the Wakmann Catalogue from 1959-
http://wakmann.de/277

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 06:35 PM

I stand corrected Q

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 04:25 PM

Picked up a Waltham 1883, nickel plates, 24hr dial (preferred by Canadians) in beautiful condition, perfect gold-filled Fortune case, for $75.
Now I want an 1883 Crescent Street with the 24hr dial.

(Yes, I stopped collecting.....)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 02:10 PM

I have a mint 21 Jeweled Hamilton 992 Railroad pocket watch perfect, full COA just done on it perfect double sunk Hamilton dial. All original, this is the 992 not the 992B. I would sell it for 175 if anyone is interested and its a steal at that price. Just PM me if interested

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 10:32 PM

never mind a guy just nailed it for 250 on ebay

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 07:41 AM

Just bagged a Hamilton 976... looking forward to collecting it on Monday.

Hamilton 976 face

Hamilton 976 movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 07:44 AM

Should be:

Hamilton 976 face

Hamilton 976 movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 08:22 AM

Damn me, I'll get this right yet - Hamilton 978L, not 976!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 10:20 AM

she's a beauty Will and the 978 isn't easy to find. You can get lots of 974's and even 975's but not the 78's

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 11:43 AM

I can sell you a very nice 936 for 200 bucks. It is precision timed cleaned and oiled. Keeps RR time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 12:32 PM

978- looks like a beauty.

I have been running a 992B I picked up last week. Keeping excellent time. Almost mint, 24hr dial (13-24 in red), almost perfect Fortune GF case (Canadian) with the bar above the crown.

For the fun of it, I am also running the incabloc Swiss "Ramona" 21j wristwatch I got long ago (box of misc.?- can't remember). A nice little watch in a "waterproof" case. Keeping good time. A wind-up, but looking for some data, I find that they also had a 25j automatic. For a time Bulova had a "Ramona" model, but "no relation."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 01:02 PM

Q
wait till you see that 974

I sold a bunch of hamiltons last week and bought two mint 992b's not that I need them but they never lose their value and will be awesome to pass on to my family when I take the dirt nap

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 02:25 PM

Tip- Removing the back of these old pocket watches is sometimes difficult if the threads are dirty, or the back put on too tightly, or cross-threaded. Some of the Fortune, Wadsworth and other cases have no knurl or ornament around the edge of the front and back parts, and are hard to open.
A pair of Atlas therma gloves works wonders, they stick to those smooth surfaces like glue. (Also good for food jars, etc.)

When you get a new (old) watch, clean the threads and contact surfaces with a bit of soft cloth.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 11:26 AM

I absolutely stole this on ebay. This is an old stock 992b mint in the box ... my gosh perfect never carried

992b

inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 11:53 AM

Got another 24hr dial 992B. Bargain time at eBay.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 12:24 PM

Q
let me know when the 924 gets there ok

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 03:00 PM

This weekend my 2 1/2 year old grandson and me are going to ride "Thomas the Train"

We both will carry 23J Waltham Vanguards and have our RR hats ready. I got good chain so he can throw it LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 03:26 PM

Hey Dan, I found a watch man locally. He has a nice clean organized shop and he was very impressed with my Illinois. We talked watches for some time and he seemed to know what he was talking about. I got good fibes from him.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 03:44 PM

Wonderful Kendall. That is always a plus for sure. You should be good your watches were all cleaned up with a COA but it is good to have someone local for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 11:13 AM

My Elgin model 5, dated 1922 - just acquired. Not a particularly rare watch, unadjusted, 17 jewels - but this is in superb condition:

Elgin model 5, 1922 - face

Elgin model 5, 1922 - movement

Elgin model 5, 1922 - case inner

Elgin model 5, 1922 - case inner

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 12:15 PM

Well I grabbed a plane and took off out west this weekend to take my 2 year old grandson to ride "Thomas the Train" at the train museum. My gosh he had his overhauls on, his train hat and a RR watch with a chain. If you asked him what time it was he would pull out his watch and say "All aboard"
LOL ... then I got papa and I would have to pull out my watch and say "All Aboard"

We rode trains all day long, and fire trucks, and horses at my kids ranch. Total overload for a 2 year old. He was in heaven. He had to sleep with his "Papa's watch"

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 01:20 PM

I always enjoyed the railroad museum in Sacramento. They had a Pullman car set up with dim lights, a jiggler to give the car the proper 'feel' and authentic-sounding night sounds, the young'uns liked it too. The gift shop has RR peaked caps, and the kids had to have them.
Somewhere I have a Pullman face towel with the name in blue, found in an old trunk. Also a CPR towel.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 02:25 PM

1944 Hamilton 992B with extremely rare 151 Melamine dial
note the cracks that is very common. Hamilton made the 151 dials for less than a year

This was a steal also

rare 992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 03:42 PM

Late 30's 23 Jeweled Waltham Vanguard lever set RR watch
some dings in the dial but stable and it is dead nuts accurate
140 bucks if anyone wants it. 10K rolled gold star case

front

inside

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 05:06 PM

note the vanguards center wheel and the wheels under the jewels, they are 10K or 14K gold (don't remember what my watchmaker told me) as are all Vanguards .. That is how high end the Vanguards were made. They are a wonderful watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 05:14 PM

Oh and why gold wheels, simple it won't pit or corrode with RR use. It is not a decorative thing

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 04:59 AM

Sounds like you had a great time with your family, Dan! My younger grandson likes me to hold a ticking watch to his ear - but he keeps asking for the loudest ones, and the Elgin 1890 18s in the silveroid case fits the bill!

Nice Hamilton and Waltham there too - that Vanguard's a peachy movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:28 PM

If anyone ever wanted a 992b now is the time on flea bay. I never ever ever in 30 years saw them go at the prices as low as you can get one now. Normally 500+ now you can nail a steel cased for about 200 or little more. Wow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:29 PM

Really is nice Will, I just sold it on flea bay for 225
and bought yup another 992b LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Q as guest
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:07 PM

One of the Hamilton 992 models had a gold center wheel- worth looking for.
Some Hamilton 950 models had a gold train!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:59 PM

Q yes I sold one of mine with the gold center wheel for 250

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 02:11 PM

Here is what the 1946 Hamilton 992B looks like now that I recased and changed the dial

front

back

inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 05:38 PM

Now that, Dan, that is truly a thing of beauty!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 06:18 PM

Now waitadamnminute! That thing was made four years after I was, and yer calling it OLD !!??!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 06:53 PM

those bar over the crown cases are beautiful for sure. I had quite the time finding an original dial in that condition but I was glad I waited for the right one to come around.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:26 PM

I bid in two Hamilton Model 17 (bar over crown) cases, complete with crystals. I will replace the case which has a name on the back, and store the other for use if I get another good 992B with unsightly case.
These cases don't appear on 992Bs for the Canadian market since the movements were sold in tins to be cased in Canada.

Dunno about cross border shopping for watches in 1940-1970, but I imagine it was not too uncommon.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:52 PM

Of the major American watch makers in the late 19th and early 20th century, it seems that Walthams were the most common to be shipped to the UK, with in descending order of numbers - Elgins, then Hamiltons and then Illinois. The upshot of all that is that, these days, the most common US-made mechanical pocket watch to be found in auctions and on eBay over here is the Waltham in its various models. Elgins are less common but still plentiful when compared with Hamilton, Howard and Illinois.

I'm in the process of acquiring my second Bunn Special - should have it in a fortnight or so - in absolutely mint condition. It's a private sale. On UK eBay at this precise moment, there's not a single Illinois watch for sale! I check for them regularly and they rarely appear over here. Far more in the US - but customs duty and shipping made them very expensive to acquire...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:55 PM

It just occured to me; Dan is the first person who ever cleaned my clock for me, and made me like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 06:14 PM

Q
you will see a lot of them factory cased in Ontario. Many of the Jewelers would travel to buffalo, buy them cased and take then back. At your end you see more of the Fortuna cased ones due to import duties. Will the Bunn Special is a superb watch. I am still waiting to find an early 23J with the wind indicator. My wallet won't let me yet LOL

My watchmaker is taking one of my 992B cased watches and making a display back for me. I been wanting my carry 992B to have a glass back so I can enjoy the running movement so that will be cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 06:16 PM

There are four watches that every collector should have. A Bunn Special, A Hamilton 992B, A Waltham Vanguard, and an Elgin BW Raymond.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 06:17 PM

I am now up to nine Hamilton 992B's LOL .. I sold a bunch of older Hamiltons and stocked up on them. Kinda obsessed with the watch :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 08:34 PM

I haven't checked on duties and excise on U.S. to Canada sales through the years. At times it was high on jewelry and watches.

Wadsworth cased a number of Canadian Hamiltons in gf cases with the bar, essentially duplicating the factory-cased Model 17s. I don't know if other case companies made a model with the bar above crown, but I haven't seen any Fortunes with the bar.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 09:27 PM

fortunes not that I know of, I don't think they made a bar over the case one either. But the bar over the case is what you want for sure. I am glad you got them my friend

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 09:30 PM

Just have one Bunn Special, a 21j 60 hour. They are adj. to six positions and temp, like the Hamiltons. I would like to have one of the 23j gems, but doubt if I can ever afford it.
Two!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 09:47 PM

I am holding off, someday I will stumble across one that needs work and be able to snag it. boy they are expensive, way outta my league. I guess if I dumped all my 992B's I maybe able to but ... naw, the hunt is the fun

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 11:27 PM

Q
if you want a glass back on the case with the initials I will have my Amish friend make you one. They are cool, you can watch the movement and enjoy that also. That's what he is doing with my case that was nuts up on the back. I saw a couple he did ... beautiful

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 01:28 PM

That's an idea for my Bunn (glass back). The case has initials.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 02:21 PM

What he does is carefully cut out the back and install a glass crystal. You now have a salesman sample case and can enjoy the movement running also. Mine like your had an inscription that the guy scratched off "to George from Emily" I guess the relationship didn't work cause he took great pains to sand it off. I was going to recase it but the rest is perfect and would make a perfect glass back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 02:47 PM

My lastest, a 1950 992B with another perfect original Montgomery dial. No. 17 bar over crown case.

This is my 9th LOL

I sold a couple of older high end Hamiltons to pay for my obsession :-)

1950

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 10:47 PM

Well a guy just bought my Hamilton 935 so yup going to buy number 10 of Hamilton 992b ... why .. investment grade watch. By the time my grandson gets older they will make a dent in the college tuition for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 04:18 AM

Dan - they just get better - great 992B!

The second Bunn Special I'm getting has inscriptions in the inner case - getting a crystal fitted sounds like a great idea. I might think hard about that one...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 04:34 AM

Another rolled gold watch chain arrived this morning. Looks great on the 992B you sold me, Dan.

See, this is the problem with these watches - each watch needs a good chain to wear with it - then each chain needs a nice fob - and then you have to have the waistcoat (vest in the US) to show it all off.

Damn - so that's where my pension's been going...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 11:09 AM

Well, I got Bunn Special No. 2 today. Some pics:

Bunn Special 1923 - face

Bunn Special 1923 - movement

Bunn Special 1923 - case inner

Bunn Special 1923 - case outer

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 11:17 AM

That is an absolute beauty, all original and that dial looks like it came right from the factory yesterday ... absolutely beautiful watch Will a fine addition to your collection. You rarely see them in that perfect shape

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM

The case is a Dueber and, although the movement is a 16s - exactly the same as my other Bunn Special - this case is slightly smaller than the other one.

The crystal is a little loose in the bezel, but seems reasonably stable. Any tips for making it a little snugger?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 03:54 PM

1943 Hamilton 992b original enamel dial
43

will
a small drop of crazy glue on the side of the crytal won't hurt a thing. I have done it a dozen times. It can be removed easy .. just don't get it on the threads

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 03:56 PM

Will the Bunns were not cased at the factory, the movement was sold to a jeweler and the customer purchased whatever case he wanted. You will see them in many different style of cases. You cases are absolutely authentic to the watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 04:08 PM

dang I am jealous you got a 978, they are hard to find ...
good job Will

by the way, my watchmaker gets ticked at me when I use crazy glue on the crystals however, most amish don't have nail polish remover LOL
it works fine and is easy to get off ... I like it cause it drys clear and holds

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 08:16 AM

Thanks for the crystal/glue tip, Dan. So far, the crystal seems pretty stable, but I'll know what to do if it works looser.

By the way, am I right in supposing that Burlington movements in the 1920s were, in fact, made by Illinois? There are one or two around on eBay and the prices look good. If so, might be worth going for.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 07:18 PM

Will
No on the Burlingtons, they were low end watches even the 21J I don't believe the US railroads accepted them

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:57 AM

Ah - thanks Dan - I'll give them a miss!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:03 AM

Hey Will
check out this ebay find, great movements
movement
18S 23J Waltham Vanguard apart, 16S Hamilton apart, Waltham KW/KS complete, 16S Rockford, Illinois 18S missing balance wheel, 16S Illinois complete, 18S Waltham PS Bartlett complete, 18S Hamilton 940 complete with dial but missing hands, 18S Elgin Convertable missing balance wheel & bridge and hands, Nice Illinois 12S marked the autocraft, 18S Hamilton 924, Southbend 12S 411

I will put together some all original watches since I have cases

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM

I have the parts to get them all living again ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:20 AM

Not a pocket watch but I found my missus one of the I am not a crook richard nixon watches where the eyes shift back and forth .. Original from 1973. She is thrilled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:43 AM

Woah - what a collection, Dan! You're going to have a great time getting them all back into their proper shape. I often see movements and sometimes cases on eBay, but I'm always wary of going for them because of the cost of bringing them up to scratch.

And the Nixon watch sounds like a hoot!

There's an auction house auction coming up here in the next few days and someone has obviously wanted to get rid of some watches from his collection - some Hamiltons: a 974 special, a 936, a 940, an unspecified model from 1883 (probably a Model 1). And there's also an Illinois "A. Lincoln" model and an Elgin "Father Time"... All seemingly in apple pie order.

The auctions estimates are all around £80-£120/£150 - if you were going for one, which would it be? The Illinois A. Lincoln looks interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:53 AM

Dan - here are some pics from the auction catalogue:

Hamilton 947 special

Hamilton 936

Hamilton 940

Hamilton (model 1?)

Illinois "A. Lincoln"

Elgin "B.W. Raymond" - NOT "Father Time" as in my previous post!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 11:50 AM

No on the 936, it is not all original Will

Yes on the 940 it is a Motor Barrel one so it is pretty good
the best buy is the unmarked, that is also a 940 but an earlier model like one I have ... if you get it 80 - 100 grab it but no higher. I can fix you up with a 940 that is all original and early

No on the Illinois, Let me look at the movements when I get them, I maybe be able to fix you up there also my brother

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM

I don't collect Illinois you do bro. However, I have tons of Illinois original parts. I maybe able to make the all original Illinois for you from one of the movements. If so I will give it to you so hold off on the Illinois. the 947 will go for huge bucks I think .. that is a pretty scarce Hamilton. What disturbs me is they replated the cases (not what collectors want to see) but if you could nail it ... that is a rare one. Hopefully however no one will notice the unmarked Hamilton is an old 940 and you maybe able to steal it cheap

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 12:13 PM

Will forget the 947 it is not a 947, it is a 974 which is the most common of all Hamiltons

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 12:31 PM

No on the BW raymond. Here is a little known fact, the BW Raymond was a Railroad grade at 19J or above. However, You could order an Elgin 15-17 Jeweled and pay 3 dollars more for the BW Raymond inscription added to the movement.   This version is a gents watch not RR grade. The one I gave you is RR grade

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 01:59 PM

Dan - your advice, as ever, is invaluable and appreciated more than you could ever know. I'll watch the old Hamilton 940 and see how it goes...

Thanks again, dear friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:29 PM

Well I was out of watch hands and I hate to keep taking them from my watchmaker friend who never charges me ... I nail this collection for 40 bucks ... what a steal .. they run 10 bucks a piece and there are hands for every American pocket watch .. since I have a bunch of high end movements coming I sure can use them and they will clean up just fine

hands

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:34 PM

Hey Q
do you have any Crown's for size 16 or 18 that you can sell me? Outta them also

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 11:59 AM

olddude, you can't afford my prices.

Real answer; I don't have any excess parts, I never accumulated any. I will have (soon) a case with crown for a 992B; it is very good gold fill, but has a name inscribed on the back. I bid in two model 17s that are clean for use with 992B movements.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:06 PM

Q
check out the glass back case Mahlon made for me, you can see what he cut out and what he did in this photo .. it is amazing

glass back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:20 PM

you can see what he cut out, but what amazes me is that glass back is a perfect fit I mean it is set right even with the case back like it was factory produced ... amazing

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 02:02 PM

That's brilliant, Dan - I am SO impressed!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 02:31 PM

Thanks Will
I love it, watching the movement run on this beautiful watch. Of course he would not let me pay him no matter how much I argued ... never argue with the Amish they always win :-)

I asked him what he normally charges he said 50 bucks ... To buy a salesman sample case on ebay is way over 100 because they are so scarce. fun fun watch. I will be carrying it all the time now

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 12:33 PM

One of my finds, an 1873 American Watch company ie Waltham keywind Broadway
it works and is near mint, dial just needs wiped off ... I am going to give it to my Amish watchmaker as he goes nuts for these old Waltham movements

broadway

movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 02:52 PM

Nice find Dan - hope you get a case to match.

I picked up a couple of 18s Elgins from the 1910-1918 era in silveroid cases at an online auction last week - expecting them tomorrow - which will bring my total up to 3. I'm going to pick out the best one and put the other two on eBay. There's also a Hamilton 18s from 1894 on eBay UK - one of the earliest made - very tempting! It's Grade 934 with 17 jewels and apparently RR grade...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 03:46 PM

A 934 Is a very rare RR grade early Hamilton, that one is bucks if you can get it under 300 US dollars you are stealing it my brother

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 04:06 PM

I think they made like 1200 Hamilton 934's and that is it, forget the others try and nail that one. I bid on just a movement one time and lost at 425 US dollars ... right now I have to take it easy on the buying so sometime I will run across one.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 07:47 PM

Only 934s with the grade number marked on the movement are rare.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 09:32 PM

the movement grade with 934 marked yes, but compared to the number of 936's or 940's you will rarely see a 934 on ebay or pretty much any other place. A Hamilton 924 yes that is not rare but the 934 ? I seen only 1 collector who had one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 03:30 PM

934s show up at collectors meets, I have seen several in past years.
A current price guide estimates $125 - $500 for these depending on condition; a marked movement $350 - $1200.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 04:51 PM

Your point is well taken Q, I only saw the one and it was a marked movement including the one I was bidding on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 12:21 PM

Fascinating film of the Illinois Watch Co. history here...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:25 PM

Hamilton 925 in full hunter case size 18 ... mint you rarely see them
in a full original mint gold filled hunter case

front

inside

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:25 PM

it needs serviced which I will do shortly

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:33 PM

sorry one of the links is bad above
this one works

Hamilton 925

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 05:35 PM

23 Waltham vanguard

dial is flawless, scratch in glass crystal that I will replace
vanguard

case back

ding in the case back, that is not brassed through in the photo just shows up dark ... gold is still there

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 08:53 PM

This is an 1898 Waltham in a very unusual octogon case. 17 Jeweled just a beauty.   This one is for Gnu so he can know the time the football games come on LOL

gnu

I gave my watchmaker a bunch of old parts, today he gave me a Hamilton 940 mint 21J RR . He actually put the thing together from all the parts I gave him, took him a month and gave it to me as a gift ... How nice is that. He knows I love the 940's 936's and 992b's they are my favorite of all watches out there

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 10:39 AM

Nice sidewinder there, Dan - very unusual case, as you say.

Friend of mine has a very nice US Military Waltham pocket watch - 17 jewels - with an inscription on the back which reads: "ORD. DEPT., U.S.A., OB-35075". Are there any guides to the meaning of these markings?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 10:49 AM

I'm continually amazed that this thread is so active.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:01 AM

The Waltham Military watch is identical to this one - with different serial and case numbers of course: Waltham US Military watch. His dates to 1944.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:13 AM

Will Fly- During WW2,both Waltham and Hamilton watches were purchased for the military, for use where accurate timing was required.
Ord = Ordinance Department; they purchased, tested and supplied many items used by the Army. All sorts of technical equipment may bear their inscription, and possibly a serial number.

I have a 17j Hamilton, inscribed "Bureau of Ships, U. S. Navy comparing watch, 12457-1943." The last is the supply catalogue number and date it was tested.

Another I have is a wristwatch, used by the Canadian Air Force. I haven't opened it, but some were Omegas.

Especially desirable are Hamilton 21j watches used in the military; one can easily sell for $1000. Wish I had one!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:17 AM

Thanks Q. I haven't seen too many of the US military watches over here in the UK - British ones are far more common and not often in reasonable condition. My friends US watch is very clean - might make him an offer...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:23 AM

Will
if he will sell it that is one to have for sure ... they are pretty hard to find as Q says ... very sought after. I saw a bucket of parts on a 4992b WWII .. going to snag it and see if I can assemble it myself. I don't have many tools need to start looking for them if I want to do some of this myself. I found a bag of parts for a 23J waltham vanguard 1892 hunter case. Tried to give it to my watchmaker friend and he said NO, I am going to make it work for you. Holy cow that is a one star watch didn't think it was all there. I need a couple of parts for it but I will find them. It is the hunt that is fun


I am going to try and fix this Illinois for you, Mahlon is swamped he got 30 watches in from a big auction house so it will be a bit ..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:31 AM

Hey Greg
there is a 24J Omega seamaster on ebay right now ... so far the bid it 11 bucks .. that is the wrist watch to have for sure. I don't collect or wear wrist watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:22 PM

Dan, no rush on the Illinois - as and when is fine. I just phoned my friend who owns the Waltham Military - he'll let me have the watch for £50.

Just as well I have a wedding gig this evening... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:23 PM

Holy cow nail it !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:32 PM

Nailed. I collect and pay tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:42 PM

Been carrying one exactly like this for a month. No kidding it hasn't lost 15 sec in a month of running. Mahlon is amazing, tuned it all 6 positions

992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM

Forget my Waltham, that is a much rarer watch my brother, Now if I can put together my 4992B Military 21 Jeweled ... Oh yes I will be happy. I am sorry I dragged you into this ... addicting ain't it LOL

I blame Q tee hee

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 01:55 PM

sorry its 22Jeweled not 21 Jeweled the 4992b's were 22J for the military my uncle carried one in WWII as a fighter pilot

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 05:42 AM

I picked up the Waltham Military watch this morning. Here are some pics (the sellers, not mine):

Face 1

Face 2

Movement 1

Movement 2

Case inner

Case outer

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 06:46 AM

Here's another military watch - a Hamilton - coming up for auction shortly...

4992B

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:30 AM

Wow you did good Will, those things are darn hard to find, most are pieced together, yours is all original. Now that one is not an aviator, it was typically used by artillery commanders in WWII. Standard issue 17J. They are just so hard to find. The on coming up for auction is the holy grail. That is a Army Air corps navigation 22J. I have one but I need to assemble it ... going to be a project ... dang I need to invest in some tools

Wow you did good

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:31 AM

tank commanders carried them also Will

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:35 AM

by the way , that was one hell of an accurate movement. Don't be fooled by the 17 J ... remember a watch is fully jeweled at 17. It is all about the movement. don't believe me, look up the Nawcc discussions on jewels and movements. Now the navigation 4992b has a hacking mechanism. See the sweep hand also ... They are 1000 bucks. Mahlon been wanted to put mine together for me. I want to tackle it myself (ambitious project to say the least at my skill level)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:44 AM

Will
I have a crap load of parts for that also, if you ever have trouble just drop me a line. I got what ya need. Great find. Looking at my military book, you movement case, hands , dial the whole nine ... absolutely all original not one that was pieced together from spares like on ebay.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:57 AM

more history, we shipped a lot of them to England in WWII. Monty's tank crew carried those Walthams. After the war they were all returned or recased for civilian use or just lost in history. Hard to find an all original one like yours. I am jealous

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 12:50 PM

Hi, Dan -

That 24J Omega seamaster is now over $250- no doubt worth it, but not to me. ;>)

Ok, well - so it goes & thanks for the tip.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 01:21 PM

If that Omega is in good condition, $250 is a bargain. I have a Seamaster that I picked up in a household auction. Needs cleaning and re-sealing, not cheap. Probably the 21j, but 23j and 24j, I think, were added for advertizing clout.

Rolex, is a competitor with a more expensive watch, but I doubt that it is really all that much better.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 01:28 PM

Straying again from pocket watches, my Swiss Bulova, RR certified in Canada, RR9362Q, keeps near-perfect time after 15 years. Should be cleaned.
They sold for $80 retail, one of the best quartz watches ever made and worth hunting for. The Canadian model has the 24 hour dial.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 01:54 PM

24 Jeweled is well worth that but I hear ya. I will poke around, I am good at finding stuff .. maybe I can run across a momvent

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:31 PM

Like I said, Dan, I know its worth it, but I gotta save my pennies for the turnips.

Only wear a wristwatch when I can't wear a vest & the pants don't have a watch pocket.

Don't knock yourself out looking.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:32 PM

Thanx also, Q.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:01 PM

Would you believe it - there are 2 Hamilton 4992B black dial military pocket watches for auction over here - one on eBay and one at an online auction house... which to go for... or both... OMG - decisions! decisions!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:22 PM

I saw it I was going to bid but you go after it my brother .. now here is something ... the guy said he would sell it to me if it didn't go over 200   so you may want to hold off. If the one with the broken balance staff (I can fix it got lots of em) doesn't get his amt, he will sell it to me .. which means its yours. I got one in parts that just needs assembled .. gonna try that myself ... however I have a master looking over my shoulder when I do this winter. So you may want to watch that one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 06:56 AM

Just picked up a cheap Ball-Waltham at an auction - swing-out case - from around 1920. A few hairlines and it needs a good clean, but a nice looker...

Ball-Waltham face

Ball-Waltham movement

Looking forward to the Vanguard in mid-December, by the way - haven't forgotten you, Dan...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:00 AM

Just noticed - there's a small knurled wheel underneath the winding crown. Any info on this?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 09:39 AM

winding wheel, easy fix Will
holy cow the ball's of any flavor are hard to find

what a great watch is it size 16 or 18? I have a heavy duty RR case silveroid for it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 09:48 AM

Just looked I don't have any Ball parts, however ask your watchmaker if the winding gear is a Waltham like off a riverside or Ps Bartlett. I will aslo ask Mahlon when I see him. If so we got one ... Now it took a good smack. I bet the balance staff is whipped .. should be no issue

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 09:50 AM

Hey Q
do you think the clutch is bad on the Ball also?

Q would know a lot more than me, he fixed his own watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 09:50 AM

Just about 45mm across the dial diameter - sounds like an 18 to me...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 09:58 AM

its an 18, find out if the gears from a 18 Waltham PS Bartlett will fix. I have an absolutely beautiful movement I can give you if they work.

here is my latest, it is all there and I have a flawless dial for it. Now to put it together. all original

936

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 10:06 AM

Will
send it to Mahlon, he will make it purr for you. I can tell him its from you ... my guess around 80-100 bucks tops as I can find the parts for you free if the Ps bartlett works. I can give him a case to case it for you, then I can send it back to you

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 10:23 AM

Well, it's winding OK - just a little sticky on the running. I'll get my watchman to give it a clean and checkover. If he has trouble with it, then I'll gladly send it to Mahlon via you.

The case rear has some engraving on it - a little faint now but still nice - and I don't have any other watches with swing-out cases. So I'll have a ponder on a Silveroid...

And thanks again for all your advice and help. Greatly appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 10:34 AM

That 936 looks to have some great potential, Dan - are you putting it together yourself? Brave man!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 10:41 AM

I think this one Will .. my 936 is for Mahlon to do. They made several variations of the 936. I been trying to get all of them. This variation has the 936 listed on the movement so it is very interesting to me. I get it like new again.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 02:59 PM

Please don't credit me with watch repair knowledge. I was a complete failure at diagnosis and repair, so I give watches that need TLC to watchmakers.

936- Haven't looked it up, but watches from that company that have the number on the movement are priced higher than those that are without the number. In many cases, the movement has something extra that is lacking on the others.

Tha Ball movement looks good. A clean may be all that is needed. I don't have a 19j movement.

Silveroid swingout cases were recommended by some railroads because they were sturdy. The NAWCC site has something on that, I remember reading it some time ago. I have a couple of old RR watches in that casing, one of them with the Canadian Pacific shield and beaver on the movement. I have passed that one on to my older son.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 06:45 PM

Dan - just noticed that the Waltham Military watch is lacking a balance whip and screw:

Movement

Think Mahlon might be able to supply one? It's running fine, but I'd like to get that sorted.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 07:15 PM

I don't think so Will notice the regulator screw next to the regulator, I think that is all it had on that model but I will check for you ... I think its complete

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 07:16 PM

sorry Will you are right ... I have a look at my parts probably do have one
let you know
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 04:24 AM

Many thanks Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 02:19 PM

Will the problem being a Hamilton collector, well I got lots of Hamilton parts but what I thought was Waltham I gave to Mahlon, he is a bit under the weather and I will ask him ... in the meantime check out
http://www.dashto.org   that guy has about everything ya need and cheap

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 11:22 AM

And still they roll in... Bagged a UK Military watch with an Elgin movement which arrived today. The weird thing is, I can trace its history back to 2011. A guy named Ernie B from Albuquerque sold it to a guy named James from Battlefield, Mo - who sold it to a guy named Stuart in Scotland - who sold it to me! And here's the watch:

1942 British Military pocket watch with Elgin 954 Grade, Model 7 movement

Superb condition and runs like a dream.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 03:13 PM

That is absolutely superb ... wow
love it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 12:26 AM

Hey Guys
any of you have a spare size 18 case laying around that I can buy from ya. I need one for my 936

Q, Greg ?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 03:47 AM

Got a 16, Dan - but no 18 - sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 09:46 AM

Sorry, Dan, no, but you'd be welcome to it if I had.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 02:57 PM

Thanks guy I will get one off ebay ...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 03:20 PM

My post got lost, just said no extra 18 cases.
I will have a 16 for 992B, that I am replacing. It has a name on the back, but otherwise a sound case.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 05:04 PM

Q
wanna sell the case? I have a 992B movement and I will have a glass back made so the back doesn't matter.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 07:36 PM

You know me, Dan, my prices are too high for you.

I'll let you know when I get the new cases. The seller had a death in the family so he didn't get them in the mail until last week. I'll give it to you for "future considerations." Never know when I might need something.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Guest, Zen minus cookie
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 08:28 PM

Apart from the 1790's chased gold and silver pocket watch I mentioned near the start of this thread, I was marvelling again today at the mid-1930s Omega stainless steel art deco model that is my everyday pocket watch and how it just keeps going on and on without losing even a few seconds per day.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 08:46 PM

Zen
Omega's were top notch watches in the day ...superb timepieces.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 10:19 PM

Omega is still excellent. I had one of the chronometers that was taken to the moon, but I sold it.

For the past week I have been wearing an Omega Seamaster, which I picked up with another watch in the 1960s. Keeping time, but I should get it cleaned and resealed. Dunno its serial number or grade, I haven't seen its insides.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 01:38 PM

History of Omega Seamaster
http://www.omegamuseum.com/seamaster
The first models, 1948, were simple watches, self-winding but no frills. See illustration at Omega site .
The Model 300 was the first of the "professional" range of models.

The wikipedia article is inaccurate.

The Seamaster is modeled after watches produced for the British military in WW2.
I would like to find one of these.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 07:51 AM

Dan - my Hamilton 978 is sticky - turns out the balance staff fitting is a little loose. My watchmender buddy is reluctant to mess with Hamiltons - can I send it to Mahlon via you for some TLC?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 12:20 PM

sure can Will, the balance staffs are tricky .. I mess with them but only on cheap watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 01:42 PM

Thanks so much Dan - I pick it up from Derek next Wednesday - I'll get it in the post to you on Thursday.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM

Several months ago I gave my Amish watchmaker some parts. In those parts was a totally whipped Hamilton 940. This is what he gave me back as a gift for my grandson. I don't even want to think of the hours he must have put into this watch. The back has an engraved steam train. all original. The movement I gave him was completely trashed out, corroded, broken staff a mess. this is what he did as a gift for me

I am touched deeply
front

back

inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 12:59 PM

Lovely stuff, Dan - what an artist!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 02:59 PM

Unreal, Dan - amazing. That guy is a treasure!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:04 AM

The sound people for Spielberg's movie "Lincoln" tracked down some old watches:

In fact, Burtt spent hours at the White House recording sounds from three clocks and several mahogany doors that have survived since the Lincoln administration. As a result, every door slam or key turn heard in the movie comes not from the set, but directly from the source itself.

In perhaps his most impressive achievement, Burtt even tracked down the pocket watch that Lincoln is believed to have worn on the night of his assassination at Ford's Theater. With permission from the Kentucky Historical Society, he wound up the watch and made it tick for the first time in more than a century, recording its noise within a customized soundproof box. This detail, Burtt says, imbues the film with an extra layer of intimacy, recreating the metronomic sounds that only Lincoln himself would have heard.

Watch this: creating the sounds of 'Lincoln' from a silent era (article, with video)

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:54 AM

Wasn't there a note discovered in the back of one of the presidential watches when someone opened it to clean it? Or is that some weird figment of my imagination?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 09:22 AM



Lincoln Watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 10:22 AM

It's beeeEEEEEUUUtiful! I am gonna wear it with pride and remember what a great guy you are every time I show it off.

Thanks, Dan. Thank you.

g

PS... I don't even know if I will wind it until I wear it to a formal occasion. It's just as pretty not wound!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 11:47 AM

wind it up and carry it gnu, you are most welcome my brother

Greg
that is amazing watch, what an interesting history wow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:00 PM

Greg
this seamaster needs repaired but Mahlon will make it like new again
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-VINTAGE-SS-SEAMASTER-AUTOMATIC-1010-FOR-REPAIR-NO-RESERVE-/271110974591?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3f1f792c7f

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:19 PM

Very tempting, Dan... Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 01:42 PM

My old Seamaster is a 1010 or 1020. Haven't had the back off. Some of these older models had a plain back with "Seamaster" and "Waterproof"; not the fancy horse.
I would like to get a crystal, mine has a replacement acrylic with a few scratches. Replacement band, but I prefer leather anyway.

These old ones are 17j.
If you can get one cheap, grab it and get olddude to send it to his master watchmaker. Serviced ones sell for $600 and up.
I would guess mine (bought years ago at house auction) hasn't been serviced for 30 years; I have been wearing it for two weeks, and it is running well, gained 1 minute in that time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:19 PM

My latest acquisition - bought from a pawnbroker's on eBay... A nice Elgin 571 "B.W. Raymond":

Elgin 571 dated 1953 - face

Elgin 571 dated 1953 - movement

I don't think it's been treated very well - you can see the scratches around the balance cock and in other places, and the crown is loose in the stem - but it's keeping dead accurate time, and it was reasonably cheap!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:32 PM

Thanks, Q - looking more tempting all the time!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:09 PM

Thats a beauty will ... now one thing with the 571. they never put a stop on the stem. If ya pull up on the stem by accident, you break the entire movement so just watch that. They are great watches and will keep dead nuts RR time. Your is very good looking

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 05:24 PM

Just been checking on the 571 casing. The case is Style Number 3055 and is called the Streamliner - correct for the movement - but the winder on it is wrong. It should be straight sided and slightly arched to follow the shape of the two side pieces that hold the pendant bow.

I'll keep a lookout for one.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:22 PM

Will your watchmaker should have one, that crown is the same for about 50 different watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Neighmond
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 01:42 AM

Olddude, are you still wanting a case for a 936 Hamilton?

If so, is a tipout case all right? I have one in yellow gold filled that is still fairly decent.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 12:03 PM

Neigh
I sure do my friend. Please pm me and I will buy it from you ... I cannot find a decent case on ebay ... tip out is perfect

thank you
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 12:10 PM

a swing out case is exactly what I was looking for as they were the most commonly used on the 936 thank you

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 03:11 PM

Of all the watches I have, none is more accurate than the size 12 Elgin that Dan gave me. I've carried it for the last three days and it is spot on. Not close, right on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 11:07 AM

Here's a Hamilton 992 from 1925 - just been bought it as a present...

Face

Movement

Case outer

Case inner 1

Case inner 2

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 11:07 AM

I have every flavor of the 936 except the one that has the 936 in the center above the Hamilton. If anyone runs into that puppy please let me know. I am trying to get every variation of the old workhorse

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 11:37 AM

I asked Kendall once if the size 18 were hard to carry for him. Without missing a lick he said "I am use to carrying big things in my pants"

I laughed for two days

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 11:40 AM

Will
absolute beauty, that looks like one with the gold center wheel from the picture. The 992 was the most famous of the Hamilton's they were so accurate that they were made and cherished by Railroad men for 60 years. Wonderful watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 07:14 PM

Dan! I never said that, did I? I must have been referring to my snub nose .38.

My goal is to get ANY Hamilton!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 07:25 PM

Today I changed to my 18 Illinois RR watch, and it too is plumb on the money. A thing of beauty it is too.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 12:21 AM

got to thinking about your 978 Will. I would be money you broke a balance jewel. I got lots of them for Hamilton's. Mahlon will fix it right up. I just gave him probably 400 of them

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 03:48 AM

You're probably right, Dan - my friend Derek (who sold me the watch and who tried to repair it) said he had trouble with the balance - wouldn't stay tight. As I said before, he's really a Swiss wristwatch man and freely admits that he doesn't know a lot about American pocket watches. I bought his last three!

Anyway, anything you can do - always greatly appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 10:50 AM

I will get it all fixed up fer ya when it come my brother

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 01:34 PM

This is one of my favorite carry watches. A Hamilton 940 21 Jewel. Everything is wrong as far as case, and dial but it has more RR history then any 10 940's out there. It left Hamilton in 1902. When the dial went to hell the railroad guy put a steel dial on it. When the case went to hell he put a cheap case on it. Both were done in the late 20's. The original owner worked on the B+O Railroad (same as my dad did). It was RR used and carried for probably 60+ years. So I still carry it and it is dead nuts accurate because of Mahlon's serice.

carry 940

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Neighmond
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 03:11 PM

A lady traded me a 944 Hamilton movement for a real nice single-sunk Hamilton Dial last week. Can't wait till that one is fixed!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 03:16 PM

A 944 holy cow those are rare, incredible find

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 03:28 PM

Will, I wonder if that Derek is the same man who fixed my Elgin 12? Herga Kitty steered me toward him. He did a beautiful job and it keeps perfect time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 03:41 PM

Kendall - Derek lives in Hamble, near Southampton. Any connection?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 03:56 PM

neigh
do you still want to sell the case for my 936?
thank you :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 03:57 PM

Hey Will
do you own a PS Bartlett Waltham size 18?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:05 PM

No Dan - the only size 18 I have now is the Ball-Waltham RR Grade from 1920. All my others are size 16.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 07:18 PM

Will, I can't say. I never did meet him. I gave the watch to Herga Kitty, she gave it to her Mate, Derek, he fixed it and she gave it back.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 03:49 AM

Yep
I will dig it out at work this week

Cheers!

Chaz

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 12:38 PM

Chaz
make sure you don't need it for yout 944 ... wow that is a great watch I am jealous ... great trade

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 01:13 PM

Will
check your PM

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 01:42 PM

Checked, Dan!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 02:01 PM

Will - Kendall's Elgin watch was fixed by Derek Burgess, who lives in Bournemouth Kinson) and has a shop in Poole Road, Branksome.

Jacqui gave me the watch on one of her visits to the Herga folk club and we gave it back to Kendall when he and Jacqui both came to the Herga with MGAS and Richard on 9th May last year - the evening before Kendall's famous birthday surprise when Mike O'Connor sang "Carrying Nelson Home" to him on board HMS Victory in Portsmouth.

Kendall may not remember it (though he will remember the Victory!), but Derek and I sang together at Herga on the 9th and they have met!

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 03:06 PM

The Hamilton name lives on in a pretty good watch.
In 1966, Hamilton aquired Buren of Switzerland, and moved there in 1969. The Buren-Hamilton microroter was a small movement automatic.
It was bought by Omega-Tissot in 1971.
Omega-Tissot merged with ASUAG to form the Swatch group.
Their better movements are made in their ETA factory in Switzerland. ETA is the largest maker of Swiss movements. Eta 2824-2 movement is a 25j automatic, the 7750 var. has stopwatch capabilities.
The ETA 2892 is 21j (to 25j) with three grades, the top adjustable to 5 positions and temperature and, with specs of -4/+4 seconds/day, meets COSC specs of -4/+6 seconds/day, matching the best of the old pocket watches.

Omega Seamaster, current model, is a 2892 (omega 1120); with addition of a coaxial escapement it becomes the Omega 2500 series.

The top movements, in Omega, IWC and Breitling, match Rolex in quality, although purists will argue about this.

Don't ask me to explain any of the above, which I found out by looking at several websites, and was caused by an adv. for Hamilton Jazz Maestro automatic chronometer, ETA 7750, in the NY Times for $1845.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 03:20 PM

Adding a bit more to the above, the Omega 2500 series, Planet, has been tweaked to 27j, and lists at $4500 or better.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 03:37 PM

I discovered some years ago that Swatch also own Longines - which, for some weird reason, seemed to debase my two Longines watches. As I've now given up on battery watches, they're both going for sale at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 07:56 PM

Longines still havetheir own plant, and their self-winding automatics are very good.
Their L561, 25 jewel, is a fine watch.

Down-grading a fine watch because the holding corporation also makes inexpensive watches is nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 08:20 AM

You read me wrong. I'm not selling my Longines because they're owned by Swatch. I'm selling because I no longer want battery-driven watches and much prefer mechanical, hand-wound movements. I've also been looking at older, non-quartz Longines...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 10:18 PM

The new mechanical automatic Longines ain't bad either.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:37 PM

I own one battery watch, a columbia sportsman's watch. Only because I don't want to carry a 992B in the middle of a fly fishing stream. That is the only time it is used

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Neighmond
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 03:41 AM

Olddude, I got your case this afternoon-i'll photo it tomorrow.

Cheers,
Chaz

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Neighmond
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 08:39 PM

Olddude if you pm me your email address I'll send some pictures your way

Cheers!
Chaz

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:04 PM

just PM'd you chaz
thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 04:04 AM

Hey Dan - that 925 you sent is accurate as accurate can be! I set the time yesterday to exactly 11am after winding, using an atomic clock website - and this morning a check reveals it's absolutely accurate.

Wonderful. I hadn't realised that the 925 was Railroad approved either.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 06:42 AM

Well, I just grabbed a US Navy Hamilton 4992B GCT pocket watch at an online auction this morning. The rear casing's a little hammered but the dial's good, and I'm hoping the movement's OK. (It was paired with a 1917 military compass).

Well, we'll see when it gets here...

Hamilton watch (and a compass)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 06:45 AM

Forgot to say - there appears to be no second hand - but I'll deal with that when I get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 06:47 AM

Post 992 - Hamilton's rule - yeah!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 11:06 AM

Awesome Will,
Mahlon has lots of parts for the 4992B ... that is a 22 Jeweled beauty so no worries if it needs work

great find

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 11:12 AM

I've found a company in the US that has a 4992B second sweep hand - so I've ordered it today. Don't worry, Dan - if it doesn't work OK, I'll be relying on good ol' Mahlon again!

Let's see when it gets to me. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:31 PM

I am jealous Will, that is the one I been after for years LOL
but I will find one eventually ... awesome job

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 09:47 PM

I have 10 perfect Hamilton 992'b. These are the best RR watches ever made. All have had full COA's done to them and every one keeps better than RR time. If anyone wants one 250 bucks which is a steal for a superb 992b with a full Coa done on it ... I have steel cased and a couple with the bar over the crown. All original every one.

Thank you Q for the beautiful watch case you sent me. It is wonderful

anyone interested just PM me

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 04:05 AM

I can recommend Dan's 992Bs - got one some time ago and it's a beauty.

As a point of interest - what's the technical difference between the 992 and the 992B? I'm just looking over the 992 I got recently - also a beauty.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 11:58 AM

992b Will is regulated to 6 positions as the 992 is 5 positions. The 992b uses a Ball regulator that was modified and re-engineered for accuracy. The 992 is a beautiful watch that keeps time that makes little difference. The 992b was just the most modern and accurate ever made because of the later engineering.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 02:43 PM

The 992B represented the best in technology of the time hence favored by collectors for its reliability and its accuracy. Also it is not rare, they made a bunch of them and parts are easily obtained to keep them running unlike many of the earlier Hamilton watches where parts are scarce.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 09:16 AM

Cleans a big big carpet, for less than half a crown.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: DebC
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 09:31 AM

Saw this thread and thought you all might be interested in a story that appeared in the Boston Globe this morning

Debra

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 11:13 AM

Nice to have my 1001st post edited out by a clone who obviously doesn't understand that there used to be a carpet cleaner called 1001, and what I posted was their ad slogan. Still if you don't understand something, just delete it. Why don't you!
Pleb.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 11:17 AM

Sorry, my mistake, it was even worse, they deleted the 1000th post, thus rendering mine obsolete. Oh well, I suppose they can't read every thread ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 02:31 PM

Well it cost me 3 hamilton 992b's and some very skilled work from my watchmaker but this is the result.

A mint perfect all original Hamilton Model 23 Chronograph WWII Navigational watch. All serial numbers match, absolutely perfect. There is camera flash in my photo's

Hamilton chronograph

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 03:05 PM

inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 03:16 PM

and its rare very early serial number dates to first run in early 1940's   P14144

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 05:18 PM

just saw one posted on ebay that isn't as nice as mine for 1600 bucks ... wow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 06:19 PM

What a great looking watch Dan! The one I'm sending to Mahlon on Monday has a black dial, white hands and centre second sweep hand - but it's got the 24-hour dial and "G.C.T." (Greenwich Civil Time) markings. It's also missing its centre seconds wheel which should sit on top of the movement, next to the centre seconds bridge and pinion - but I'm hoping Mahlon can work his magic on it for me!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 06:47 PM

Dan, do those two inset dials run 30 seconds and 60 seconds, or ? Stop watch function, or ? Why both of them ?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 10:54 AM

froggy ... Yup ... they were used in WWII on the B-17 ... they would look through the sextant, check the map and then look at the time. They were also used when they fire the ordinance, time the bomb drift and speed to impact ... This one model 23 is use for Navigational purposes over water mainly. If the watch was off just a little bit, it would put them in real problems. The model 23 is one of the Hamilton grails that people want

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 12:46 PM

This one I would sell for 300 because I have more into it than that. It is perfect ... Original 992b bar over crown, case is near mint. Melamine dial is mint ... complete serviced and dead nuts accurate.
bar over crown

back

inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 01:34 PM

Model 23 some more info ... They were only made from 43 to 44 ...

"The Hamilton Model 23 Chronometer was used by all branches of the armed forces but predominantly used by the Air Force during WWII and into the 1950's Korean conflict. The Model 23 Chronometer had several uses.
· It could be used as a traditional "Ground Speed watch" which would help the Air Force navigators correctly determine the ground speed while in flight. This is important for so many reasons such as properly determining where you are for navigation, safe drop speeds for paratroopers, fuel consumption and obtaining correct speed for bomb drop trajectory.
· It could also have been used for artillery drills and on U.S. Naval vessels and submarines or any other circumstance where an accurate timeframe was needed to be measured.

However, the Model 23 was most often used It was also used by the US Army Air Force during WW II in conjunction with the Mark III, Model 5 Octant or Pioneer (BendiX Aviation Corp) A-5 or A-7 sextant for navigational purposes while in flight over water where landmarks were not available.

A sextant or octant was used to measure the "altitude" of a celestial body above a horizontal line of reference. ("Altitude" in this case is a special use of the word describing an angular measure, not a distance in feet above sea level.) A mariner can use the horizon as this line of reference, but when an airplane is flying above the clouds or flying at night, its navigator can't see the horizon. The bubble sextant or octant solves this problem by providing an artificial horizon. It takes its name from an air bubble in a liquid-filled chamber that functions like a carpenter's level, indicating when the sextant or octant is aligned horizontally.

The navigator would look through the eyepiece of his sextant or octant and locate a star. With a drum on the side of the instrument (like a camera's focus ring), he would adjust the angle of a rotatable prism until the star showing in the eyepiece is aligned beside the bubble. The prism and drum are geared to circular scales, marked off in degrees. From these scales he could read the star's "altitude".

But just as importantly as knowing a reference star's "altitude" the navigator had to know the exact time that the reading was taken. To do this, before taking the "altitude" reading, the navigator would start the Model 23 at some specific time, say 12:34:00 GCT. Once he had the star aligned beside the bubble in the sextant or octant, he would depress the pendant and stop the sweep hand and record the time of his observation along with the "altitude" reading from the circular scales. Since it was difficult to take a reading on a bouncing airplane, several reading of the same reference star were taken and averaged. To obtain a "fix" usually required observations of three different stars."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 01:37 PM

Oh and don't be confused by Korean war, they used the 43-44 run up till then. mine is first run ..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 02:08 PM

So, Dan - what was the functional difference between the Model 23 and the 4992B?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 02:33 PM

Will
the model 23 is a bit rarer other than that I couldn't tell you. The 4992b's were made up until the 60's I believe. The model 23 I think they made only 1000 or 1400 something like that. 4992b is 22 Jeweled, the model 23 is 19 jewels.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 02:40 PM

From a user standpoint, I would rather have a 4992b for carrying ... this one I won't because I will never ever find parts for it. 4992b parts all over the place which makes it a great watch for carrying for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 05:57 PM

Oh and the 4992b does not have the stop watch and double dials

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jan 13 - 10:13 AM

Just sold the 992b for near 400. If anyone wants a 992b mine have been going 100 over what I been quoting my friends.   I have one more I want to sell for 275 and its perfect

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 05:17 PM

Wow I found a Hamilton 996 size 16 pocket watch. You see a lot of Hamilton 992's but not a lot of 996's really cool I get a picture. It need cleaned the oil is really grungy.

Q
My friend I thank you so for the case. I put together a really nice 992b carry watch with it. I had the movement just not a case and since this one is for me to carry it works perfect. Thanks again my friend

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 06:10 PM

Don't think I've ever seen a 996. I've recently been wearing the 978 that Mahlon cleaned and mended for me - it looks good and it's going good! He did a great job on it.

Now I'm hoping he can sort out the 4992B and its missing centre seconds wheel...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 06:14 PM

Will my brother, no problem, I have a center wheel that works for it that I gave him. He will make it purrrrrrrr

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 06:19 PM

Will the 996 looks just like a 992 but it is 19 jewels and has what I think the finest damaskeen work that Hamilton ever did
996

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 04:05 AM

Dan - that is something, isn't it? What beautiful work!

And thanks for the center wheel - you're always there when needed...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 09:08 AM

Bit of thread drift here - hope no-one minds...

As I slowly shed and sell my battery-driven watches, I've been picking up the odd Art Deco-style wristwatch from the 1940s/1950s. Here's a picture of two Wittnauers and a Hampden - all from that period. Lovely to look at and to wear, and keeping great hand wound time.

Wittnauer/Hampden/Wittnauer

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 11:49 AM

Wow Will, now wittnauer are hard to get here in the states, the older ones that is. what beautiful watches and boy they are superb runners

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 11:56 AM

I am going to make a glass back will for the 996. That movement is just to pretty to cover up.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 02:11 PM

That's a great idea, Dan - I've been thinking of doing that for one of mine...

Problem is - all the existing cases are sweet!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 03:37 PM

Mahlon won't make a glass back on a case that is not either scarred up or initialed. My 996 has on the back some guys name and on the inside is with love from Ethel ... so I have no issue making a glass back. However if you find a nice watch with a nuts up back, then a glass back is the way to go. I mean watching the movement run is wonderful and the damaskeen is a work of art. It is a shame to hide them in a case actually since we don't work on the RR or have to worry about damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 03:46 PM

I found out that Mahlon who owns a zillion watches doesn't have a 992b
he has been doing so much work for me that I am going to give him a mint one. It will be tough because he is one of those guys that does the giving and is not use to receiving. When I bought him the Microscope I had to pull the I am older routine, ya gotta respect your elders . use the Amish thing against him to get him to accept it LOL ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 05:10 PM

Just picked up this nice Elgin , only 15 Jeweled movement but very nice condition. Case is Gold
Elgin

elgin

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 05:50 PM

That's a nice sidewinder, Dan - sweet face and hands to it. Gold as well, eh... sigh...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 09:25 PM

Will Fly's Wittnauer (Longines-Wittnauer) reminded me of my high school graduation watch, a Longines in that rectangular case style, rose gold. It still keeps good time (1941).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:16 PM

Q, reset cookie.I was the guest with the Longines.

Just had Windows 7 professional installed by my daughter. My xp got buggered in some way, and she tells me that it will no longer be supported by microsoft after this year.
Probably be weeks before I get it figured out. All my files on a LaCie and afraid to transfer them.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 13 - 10:23 PM

Hamilton 992B nice runner dead nuts on
200 bucks if anyone wants this one. perfect carry watch

front

back

movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 13 - 10:32 PM

Oh its in a 10K gold filled keystone case

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Feb 13 - 10:48 PM

Oh should say this 992b is a perfect carry watch, it is not a good collector example as it is cased in a KEYSTONE Elgin case. should be cased in a hamilton case .. it should also have a melamine dial but it has an enamel dial ... I prefer the enamel as they don't break up like melamine will. In any event it is a 992b and a perfect runner

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 04:52 AM

That's a nice looker, Dan. If I wasn't being pampered by Mahlon and his work on the 4992B just at the moment, I'd be tempted...

When I've got my 4992B back and settled up and saving again, I'll be on the lookout for a nice 992B with a bar over the crown, and I'm going to save my pennies - and they'll be a lot of pennies I'm sure - for a wind-up/down indicator Waltham Vanguard. That will be a treat!

One day... oh, one day... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 11:22 AM

Vanguard with wind indicator ... oh yes .. my dream also my brother

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 11:46 AM

There's one up for auction over here at the moment - estimate between £450 and £650... Oh well, one day!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 06:53 PM

Grabbed a Hamilton 956 from around 1920 on eBay. Few hairlines on the face, and the movement could use a clean-up, but the case is OK - and it's a runner.

Hamilton 956 face

Hamilton 956 movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 08:52 PM

Very Nice Will, dial doesn't look bad to me. I can give you one that is a little better shape if you want it

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 04:23 AM

That would be great Dan, if you can - but don't put yourself out. All donations gratefully received! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 04:26 AM

Forgot to ask you, Dan - what's your opinion on the screw that holds the 956 mainspring barrel? Looks slightly out of place to me - as though it's not quite a right replacement. Or is that just my pernickityness?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 07:29 PM

its a replacement Will but I would leave it alone ... I will look and see if I have the right one if so I will send it with your new dial

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 06:20 AM

Dan - that's very kind. If you or Mahlon have a blued spade minute hand to fit the 956, I'd be happy to pay for that, the dial and the screw as a job lot.

The minute hand is a suitable shape, but gilt and not blued. The second hand is obviously not part of the set as well, but I'm not worried about that!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 12:51 PM

I don't Will but get yerself some 992 hands on ebay. They are cheap you can have them sent to me if you like and I will ship them to you cause many folks won't ship over the pond

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 01:06 PM

Will
found my dial sadly it doesn't look any better then yours. Mine has four cracks in it. Check ebay .. you can always ship to me and I will forward to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 01:45 PM

No worries, Dan - I can sort it all out.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 12:17 PM

My new carry watch
1946 Hamilton 992B with a very very scarce monty enamel dial (not melamine) perfect in every way
1946

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 12:19 PM

couple of dings on the inside of the dial but nothing unusual. great carry piece

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 12:24 PM

NICE one, Dan!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 01:14 PM

That's fabulous, Dan - great find!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 02:48 PM

I gave Mahlon one of my 992b's as he never had one. Normally you see him carry something different every time I go out there. Since I gave him the 992b I think he has been sleeping with it. Never left his pocket. Every person that comes in he hauls it out .. Look at this .. my friend gave me this .. nothing runs better .. LOL
He just does so much for me and I have to argue with him to pay him. I took him to his dentist as it was a long ride and he forgot his watch. It was a great time to give him it. For three months now he just keeps showing it off .. that made me smile

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 02:59 PM

Oh Mahlon is making now custom made cases. They are precision threaded like butter. They so beautiful they take my breath away. They look like solid gold but are made from highly polished bronze cut from a single solid block and highly engraved. Right now he is doing a Hamilton 996 for me with one of his custom cases in a glass back. A guy offered me quite a bit for my 996. I really don't want to sell it but I have lots of watches and can plow the money back into some hard to find Hamilton's. Just picked up a Hamilton 934 on ebay. Rare or at least really hard to find watch. It needs a crystal, cleaned and hands but everything else is mint. can't wait

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 07:05 PM

Ah, you're tempting me again... I've got a 992 that would great in a custom display case.

Trouble is, my latest Hamilton - a 956 - needs some work on it and that's a priority.

Why are there so many beautiful pocket watches in this world...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Mar 13 - 09:45 AM

I've just acquired a copy of "American Pocket Watches: Identification and Price Guide, 1830-1990" by Roy Ehrhardt and William "Bill" Eggers from AbeBooks. Originally a paperback publication, but this copy has been bound, with the original covers, in a hardback green binding.

What a great find. It gives watch sizes (in American Swiss, Fractions of an inch, Millimetres and French Lignes), a guide to jewelling, a huge table of dial foot positions and - most valuable of all - hundreds of diagrams of watch movements for identifying. Great stuff - and all for £22. Hours of fun!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Mar 13 - 09:16 PM

I finally completed my set, I have the WWII Model 23 Chronograph and now I nailed this nice 4992b. Set complete

1

2

3

Mahlon needs to service it for me, you can see it is dirty but running and is all original ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Mar 13 - 10:30 PM

That's great, Dan, but how do you tell if it's 22AM or 22 PM ?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Mar 13 - 10:55 PM

froggy, I gotta look at the stars or the sun LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Mar 13 - 05:29 AM

That's great, Dan. I'll show you mine if you show me yours... :-)

Those dials are fantastic - I just wish I could understand the meaning of the markings on the back and how they were decided on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 08:49 PM

This one was actually my work, that is with a little help from a friend LOL. It is a 1948 992B ... before and after

b4

after

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 09:56 PM

any flaws you see are reflection, that dial is absolutely mint. The watch needed some balance staff work .. perfect runner now. Been selling a lot of 992b's for over 300 bucks. Anyone here wants one I will give the big mudcat discount

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 09:58 PM

I still have like 7 992b's LOL, I got a little carried away with those watches but I never lost a nickel on one ... folks here got them for exactly what I paid for them .. but on ebay .. hmmm well I did good

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 10:56 PM

Hey Will
Nail this bugger, it is a very rare US Army from 1941
on your GB ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-HAMILTON-21-JEWELS-992B-U-S-ARMY-MILITARY-RAILROAD-WINDUP-POCKET-WATCH-/230944245068?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D6204452972009416220%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D151010613433%26

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 05:07 AM

Thanks for the heads-up, Dan - it's now on my eBay watch list.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 09:54 PM

Hey Will
a 4992B wind off ... winner gets bragging rights. Mine against yours (already know you will win) Mahlon tuned yours. I did mine myself today. Running good but well we shall see ...

how about it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 07:41 AM

You're on, Dan. :-)

I got the 4992B from the sorting office today (paid the Customs Duty and sent off the claim documents to prove it was mine in the first place and get my money back) and got it home to gloat over.

Mahlon's done a great job - as ever - and I set the time with the seconds hack to the atomic clock on my computer. Running beautifully!

I don't buy these watches to make a profit - I buy them for their beauty and precision. But it's nice to know that what I've paid out in auction costs and Mahlon's repair bill is probably less than a half of what the watch is now worth in the UK.

I'll be writing to him today to give him my thanks for a superb job. And thanks to you, dear boy, for the centre seconds wheel! I shall think of a suitably devious way to replay you...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 07:44 AM

... or even repay you... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:08 PM

Ok set the sweep last night to US naval time. as of right now. DEAD NUTS ON THE MONEY. Oh yea ... in fairness I only had to do a little cleaning to mine

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 04:46 AM

Well, a 9 o'clock check this morning tells me that the watch has gained 18 seconds in 12 hours - i.e. around half a minute in a day. Not 100% - but pretty damned good! There's no telling how these instruments get shaken up in a journey of 3,000+ miles, so I'm quite happy. The movement is gleaming and the balance is spinning like a little bee. I'm very pleased with it - though I guess you probably have bragging rights! :-)

I see there's another Hamilton 992 Military watch on e~Bay - in France. This looks to be in better condition (dial) than the one coming up soon, so I'll keep my eye on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 12:13 PM

It will settle in Will, new oil always take a little time. I notice about a few days after an oil job I pick up a little time then it settles in. That is still superb time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 09:40 PM

I don't collect or work on wrist watches but I fell in love with this 25 Jeweled Lord Elgin self winding Automatic. It was the last great Horrah for the Elgin Company this one is from 1958

Lord Elgin 25 Jeweled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 04:44 AM

Dan - just realised my original reply to your last post hadn't taken.

To restate here: What a great-looking watch! I have to admit to being occasionally seduced by a nice-looking wristwatch from time to time. Anyway - that looks like a keeper.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 03:33 PM

Dan - the 1967 992B is keeping great time - and the 4992B has settled down and is also keeping great time. I'm maxed out with Hamilton RR Grade watches at the moment!

I spotted a 972 in a shop today - selling for £275 ($415 US). Seems way over priced to me. There's a model in a US watch internet store in equal condition selling for $225 - with a "make me an offer" option!

The UK can be an expensive place to buy these things - though I've got a few bargains on eBay. Thanks heaven for Good Friends in the US!

My regards to Mahlon - the man's sheer genius.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 11:15 PM

where is Dan these days?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 05:20 AM

He's around here and there - we swap emails and PMs from time to time. Doing OK as far as I know...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 04:21 PM

I am fine kat thank you for asking. Will absolutely not on the 972 Mahlon will probably sell you a mint one for 150 or so. I sold one that was perfect in everyway for under 200. Yes it is a RR grade watch but it is a common RR grade watch. On top of that the damn things are 4 post dials which you cannot find and when you do they are broken to shit ... I will ask Mahlon what he has available.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 04:26 PM

Hey Will find me an omega seamaster over the pond that I can afford.
been looking for one. Ebay is junk and if it is not junk they want the gross national product of some island for it.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 07:50 PM

I'll see what I can get, Dan. Leave it with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 07:24 PM

A very hard to find 1942 Canadian Hamilton 992B. Missing a second hand but I have lots of them. The case need polished and it needs cleaned. It is cased in a Canadian Sturdy case. Very Very hard to find war year 992b's as they all went to the military. When I am done it will look like it came from the factory
1942 Canadian 992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 07:32 PM

Nice dial on that one, Dan - it'll look great cleaned up.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 07:40 PM

Canadian 992B's are my favorite. I have two.

Movements were shipped to Canada without case, thus seldom have Hamilton cases.
I was told that T. Eaton and Co. did sell some with Hamilton cases, and a few went to other countries with the 24hr dial requirement on their railroads.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 07:53 PM

The dial is enamel 24hr Hamilton. Those are very hard to find originals anymore. The serial number is c64964 very very low as they made 500,000 of the things. I have not run across many made in the war years. I have seen a lot advertised but not all original

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 07:55 PM

I read that the tariff's were so high that they shipped mostly just the movements. Most collectors will not consider a Hamilton cased Canadian 992B as original as like Q said they were movements that were shipped mainly with few exceptions

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 08:03 PM

Frank
If you want it I will sell it to you for exactly what I have into it when I get it fixed up. I only bought it to resell as I don't really collect the Canadian flavor of these Watches. I got the watch for 200 a steal for a 1942 and will have about 50 or 60 bucks into it when I am done making it mint.

One high end collector bugged me and bugged me for my Hamilton 23 Chronograph. He finally gave me a price I could not refuse as it was over high market value ... Dang .. now its a hunt for another one LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 05:28 PM

HORRAY !!!!

WILL FOUND ME A SEAMASTER OHHHHHH YES

1

2

YOU ARE MY HERO WILL THANK YOU

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 05:54 PM

Dan - you've done me so many kindnesses, it was a pleasure to find it for you.

Hope it lives up to your expectations!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 05:58 PM

The NAWCC experts were drooling Will
you are my hero

Thank you soooooo much

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 10:07 PM

I haven't even got it yet Will and about 4 people wanted to buy it
Gosh ... you have great eyes for fine watches my friend. I could not touch it here in the states for what I paid.

Awesome Job, I owe you

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 01:16 PM

I picked up an old Seamaster in a lot of costume jewelery years ago.
It keeps time well as long as it is on an active wrist, but can die during the night. Needs cleaning, I think.
It is an old one, from the late 50s?, but I haven't had the back off so I don't know the serial number. Probably the early 17j.

I should get it serviced.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 01:45 PM

The Seamaster arrived today - looks better in the flesh than in the pics.

It's possible, looking at the lugs, that the case has had a refinish at some stage, but the dial and movement look OK to my amateur eyes.

I hope it lived up to your expectations!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 01:48 PM

lives...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 02:11 PM

You nailed it Will, One of the experts on the Nawcc said, well the case was polished several time ... no affect on the value ... so you picked that right out. amazing eye

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 02:12 PM

also said the dial was probably refininished both do not detract from the beauty or the value ... its all original

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 02:18 PM

You stole it for me Will, I asked a high end collector what is the fair price for it ... he said 800

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 03:36 PM

That Omega will be a family watch. I would never sell it .. My grandson will wear it when he grows up

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 04:25 PM

I found this in some watch parts that I bought. It is a really nice running 17J Waltham
waltham

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 06:21 PM

Yo! Just got back from playing some music in a session to find that my latest snipe paid off...

Hamilton 23

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 09:12 PM

Once again I notice somethin'(a detail of Will's latest toy) that I don't understand. Maybe the same thing has been on some others and I just haven't caught it. It looks like there is a fourth thin hand pointing about straight down, like another second hand but shorter. What's that for?

Yesterday I pestered my wife into putting on the dress that I think is the very mostest becoming on her. I gussied myself up a little more than I have recently, and wore a vest so I could wear the gold Waltham and chain properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 10:05 PM

Froggy
it was used for navigation in WWII. there is a minute hand, hour hand
sweep second hand. second hand, and the top small keeps track of minutes from the stop watch. It has 4 hands yup. You can stop the sweep second hand, reset it, then lapse time. you and drop bombs and time them until impact. Navigate by minutes off lat and long points on a map.

immensely complex timepiece. Mahlon is the only one I would trust to service it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 10:11 PM

Those are investment grade watches. I sold my 4992b and model 23 for over 1200 dollars. You did good Will. Now I will find replacements but I just couldn't pass up the offer

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 03:41 AM

Will's latest toy

Toy? TOY?

Tut, tut, man - wash your mouth out immediately! These aren't toys, these are essential to the well-being of men with slightly more money than sense... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 12:21 PM

I affirm Will's comment, these are not toys, they are essential to long life and happiness and eating soup when you have no money for food cause ya went broke buying them.

Everyone should own obsolete technology and lots of them

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 12:50 PM

4992b- I wish,I wish, I wish.
Outside of watches with many complications, and impossible prices, the 4992B is matchless, and certainly keeps time just as well if not better than these $20,000-plus wonders.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 02:00 PM

Thanks to eBay (and Dan), I have a 4992B, 2 992Bs, a 992 - and now a Hamilton 23 chronograph. and that's not counting the Bunn Specials, the "B.W. Raymonds", the military watches and other stuff. I never tire of opening up the rear casings and just sitting and marvelling at the wonder of the movements.

I've even started a small collection of 1940s wristwatches - two or three Wittnauers, a lovely Hampden "Curvex"-style, a Longines (a Valentine's Day present to Mrs. F.), a Swiss Howard automatic... the list goes on.

And, if times get hard and I need a little moolah - well, the old watches are there if I need them. Pray to the Lord I never do!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 02:33 PM

Sounds good, Wesley - are they key wind? Would love to see some pics if you can post a link...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 02:57 PM

Wes
HELLLL YA
lets see some pics ... great find

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 05:29 PM

I bought a crap load of loose American staffs on ebay. After plowing through them all I found 10 Illinios 1506 double rollers for the Bunn special. They are rare and are 50-60 bucks each if one can find them. I will put aside one and send it to you Will as a gift. You need to put it away in the event you break one on your Bunn. They are impossible to find.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 05:35 PM

I sold a crap load of them. Keeps me buying watches. I had only one guy chew my ass out (left me positive feeback) but compained in the email cause I sold it for 40 bucks. He said he looked for 4 month for one and was upset he had to pay so much. I told him looking for 4 months doesn't that tell you something .. and Oh you can buy one on the net   60 bucks plus shipping. I gave him free shipping ... Go figure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 03:25 AM

Thanks for the balance staff, Dan - very kind of you!

Some idiots are never satisfied are they? If you have difficulty in finding something - as you say - it should tell you something!

People...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 12:36 PM

Dan, I have a Bunn Special 60 hr. It needs cleaning, but runs well.
If you have a spare balance staff, I will gladly pay for it. I know all parts are getting scarce for these Bunns.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 01:39 PM

Complex or what?

Hamilton 23 movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 01:28 PM

Q
as you said to me you can't afford it LOL ... PM me your address and I will ship it right out to you.. You bet they are hard to find so keep it in case you need it
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 08:54 PM

I have dust on my camera lense but this Waltham wrist watch now shines like a baby's bottom. I threw some oil on it, perfect time keeper. by the way the best oiler I ever used .. A syringe from my doc buddy, you can suck up the oil and use the smallest of drops which is just what you need.

waltham

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 05:35 PM

The seamaster is absolutely beautiful Will, that is one of those take you breath away watches. I notice he had put an original Rolex Alligator band on it also .. way cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 05:35 PM

It maybe an Omega but I am keeping that band on it .. dang beautiful

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 08:10 PM

The date of my Bunn special is 1927. In 1928 it was taken over by Hamilton, according to the watch catalog I have.

Interesting- Comparing 992B and the Bunn Special, both watches corrected to 6 positions and temperature. Both issued with 21j, and a few with 23j.
I'll have to go to Nawcc and see if I can find out more.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Apr 13 - 04:14 AM

My Bunn Specials are dated 1923 and 1924. I suppose the similarity in engineering was partly owing to the RR grade standard.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Apr 13 - 10:23 AM

Q
992B uses a Bunn Regulator

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 07 Apr 13 - 12:40 PM

What is interesting is after Hamilton took over Illinois they no longer made the balance staff's. They used the ones Illinois had. That is why they are so damn hard to find

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Apr 13 - 01:28 PM

Thanks for the information. Does that mean the staff for 992B also is hard to find?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 07 Apr 13 - 06:48 PM

No but I have lots of 992b staffs, I will include it for you with the bunn. Hamilton used a ball regulator but reengineered it for the 992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 07 Apr 13 - 07:19 PM

My old size 16 Elgin is right on the money, as usual. Thanks again, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 03:28 PM

I nailed to perfect Omega's in an auction ... my wallet is now a lot lighter for sure.   One is a seamaster geneve automatic 17 Jeweled this one is a 21 Jeweled automatic seamaster .. both authentic both perfect

21J front

back

if anyone wants the 17J Geneve a real beauty let me know 275 takes it
it is self winding auto and near mint

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 06:25 PM

Dan - the 17 jewel gold plate or stainless? & can you tell me the calibre? Maybe post a photo if you get the chance? I'm tempted.....

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 07:22 PM

Greg
it is cal 1022 ... very nice pic doesn't do it justice
1

2

250 and it is yours

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 07:57 PM

Great price, Dan & great-looking watch - but RATS! I'm not fond of the squared-off style. If ya run across one of the cal. 500 series w/ round case & maybe Stainless case rather than gf & maybe no date function - that they don't want 2 arms & three legs for, give me a shout. Don't have to have a watch band, either.

Thanks again-

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 08:30 PM

will do , I asked Mahlon to keep his eye out also

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 08:43 PM

They are hard to find at a decent price. The one I am wearing today is from Will. He found it in England for 400 bucks and it is mint from head to toe. It is a 601 movement manual wind. Love it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 06:13 PM

Greg
go after this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111054568593?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 06:29 PM

Thanks, Dan - will keep an eye on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 07:04 AM

That's a nice Seamaster - if I was in the market for one (which I'm not), I'd go for it myself!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:20 PM

I have a bid in on a 1022. Shouldn't, but the impulse was too strong.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 03:38 PM

Well, I got the 1022 day-date for $300. A little of the gold plate is coming off the steel, but otherwise seems clean and running. I will give it to my watchmaker and get the news, good or bad.

I also have one in a steel case (calibre not known) which definitely needs cleaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 03:51 PM

I went to a new Pawn Shop today; they had a few watches but nothing that grabbed me.
There was a steel Waltham that would run on and off, but the stem that moves the hands appeared to be disconnected. There was a scene on the back that looked like a different metal.
He was asking $60.00, I didn't make an offer, knowing what it costs to repair these things.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 04:35 PM

Kendall
NO without knowning the jewels. besides someone may find you a 992b if you are patient

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 04:43 PM

I would take 225 for mine. I don't need three seamasters

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 07:22 PM

I just had to buy a car, the old van was on its last struts. Now I have to get the house painted. and Jacqui needs dental work.
I'm afraid the 992b will have to wait a while!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 07:43 PM

When did you ever have to pay for a watch that I gave you?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 10:45 PM

what I mean captain is I will COA one of the 7 that I have and give it to you

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 06:49 AM

Oh, you mentioned $225.00.
Your generosity has enriched my little collection so much already, I'm beginning to feel like a charity case!
What can I do in return? I can send you a copy of my new book. A paltry sum indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 10:00 AM

Kendall
here is the deal, I got hit with lots of taxes so money is tight. I have a mint 1948 Hamilton 992B. I paid over 200 for it. If you pay Mahlon to COA it (around 50 bucks) it is yours as a gift. Been wanting to do that anyway for you. I have to drive Mahlon to the bus station tomorrow at like 1 in the morning and he will be gone for two weeks. But I can give it to him when he gets back. He will fix it send it to you with his bill, just send him the check for the COA and shipping when you get it ok? if that a deal?

love ya
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 09:17 PM

That Seamaster went for over 500 bucks, Dan- too rich for my blood. Will keep looking- ya never know.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 09:34 PM

Oh boy, they just keep going up at the last minute. see if you can find one that doesn't work. Mahlon is a master at those things

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 02:53 PM

olddude, advice on what to look for in a used Seamaster, etc.
I am savvy (usually) on pocket watches, but wrist watches are new to me.

I know that real collectors lok for condition of case, original strap, etc. as well as movement condition. These go for high prices.

Ten there are those where the movement is working, but the strap is replaced or or part of gold plate is gone, and maybe a scratch or two.
These are often reasonable, and may need a clean and perhaps minor adjustment, but can give good service for another lifetime. You have a good watchmaker, and I have one here.

I have been looking at the latter group. I will never make any money on them, but they are still good timekeepers. I can't afford the top condition watches.

Which do you go for? Or should I forget about them?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 03:12 PM

Q
grab one that needs work. Now the original strap isn't that important, you can buy an original strap or bracelet for around 50 bucks so wrist watch collectors don't care. More care is if the dial is original or replaced ... I would find one that need work, Send it to me and I will have Mahlon fix it all up for you. You will have a mint watch on return for a fraction of the price. The all original 21 Jeweled 1110 that I just bought needed serviced. He made it purr for me. and I got it hundreds of dollars cheaper than I would one fully serviced. When I got it I had to shake it to see the second hand move. It is mint now

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 06:13 PM

I also make sure the crown has the Omega symbol on it - very often they've been replaced with a non-Omega substitute. Some Omegas also have a plain-back case, but they're not as sought after as the ones with the Omega markings.

Dan's dead right about the dial - some I've seen have been repainted in India - and it shows!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 06:38 PM

Using direction on a site, I carefully opened up my grandfather's Seth Thomas (mentioned way back in the first 100 posts) gold hunter style watch to look for the serial #. It was 2789. If I looked in the right place (inside on the works) that means it was very early... 1885. It is smaller than the usual pocket watch one sees..(40 MM diameter)

William Lindsey Day was born in 1867 and died about 1925. His watch came from the Fayman-Joseph Co. in Springfield, MO., I know of a good watch repair shop close to me. I think I will take it in for an exam & appraisal.

You guys have me curious. I wish I lived closer to Mahlon.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 07:31 PM

Sounds like the 12 size Seth Thomas. I suspect that there should be three zeros after the four digits you gave, making the date 1908-1909.
The 1885 watch was 18S size (large).

They are nice little watches. Also check for the number of jewels, which also is marked on the movement; 7j to 17j. The last are rare.

I am bidding on a 23j Seamaster. The crown is marked, and the back has the seahorse, but not the raised one. The dial is original, "slightly stained." Running. Dunno.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 09:41 PM

The prices I have for genuine Omega metal bracelets is $360 or close for gold plated and $600 or more for stainless steel. From Otto Frei.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 10:18 PM

Ok.. I see now. Too many serial #s...that low # referred to something about the case, I guess...but the outer case had a much larger #. The works dates to 1906, which makes more sense, as my grandmother went to the 1904 Worlds Fair in St. Louis and the family moved from Pennsylvania to Oklahoma in about 1910, no doubt passing thru Missouri on the trip.

I cannot find any marks indicating # of jewels. Maybe it says somewhere hidden.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:55 AM

This big fat 15 jewel Illinois is still keeping perfect time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:09 AM

correct on the omega ban Q but on ebay I saw NOS going for under 100

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:35 AM

if you want to send it to me Bill, I will take care of it for you and get it serviced. Probably run you about 30 bucks or so if it doesn't need a spring job. Mahlon will be back in a couple of weeks. He is teaching a hair spring course to "English" watchmakers.

Keep your eyes out guys for a 30 Jeweled Lord Elgin 760 or 761 movement. Those puppies are sought after bigtime, I have both. They were the only true American autowind watches ever made. All others were swiss based. Sadly Elgin's innovation led to their demise. They spent so much money on redesign of the autowind feature that they never recovered. We had a great discussion on the NAWCC about them. They are not rare but very elusive and hard to find. When you find one on ebay you can ususally pick it up very cheap 50 or 80 bucks if they don't show the movement. However all 30 jeweled Elgins had the 760 or 761 movement. wonderful watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:42 PM

Will
do you own a Hamilton 936?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:55 PM

I have a spare 936 (a fully serviced beauty) I want to give you as a gift if you don't own one. email me Will as I will be gone from mudcat for a while.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:01 PM

Hi Dan - no, I don't have a 936 - I don't see many of them over here. Are they a decent grade?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:51 PM

I object to this thread drift about WRIST watches!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:09 PM

its the first of the great Hamilton RR pocket watches, the one that started it all for the Hamilton company

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:10 PM

I think I initially brought wristwatches up, so its my fault & I hereby apoligize for my apostasy.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:18 PM

All the pocket watch collectors I know also have a few good wrist timepieces as well. Hamilton, Illinois, Elgin and others switched to wristwatches as popularity of pocket watches waned.
Doug Sinclair, NAWCC member mentioned here several times, has some fine ones, and a good selection of better examples of wristwatch styles.

Remember the Curvex type? These make a fine collection.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 04:18 AM

Gruen Curvexes are beautiful watches - much sought after. I have a Hampden Curvex-style wrist watch with a blue and gold dial - stunning. Other hand-wind wrist watches from the 1940s and 1950s in my collection are by Hamilton, Wittnauer and Longines - all lovely.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 07:38 PM

I have a South Bend pocket watch that I have up and running today. It is 12 size in a gold (fill) case. The numerals are thin line, making the face seem open.
I like to carry it because it is light and thin.

I can't get the back unscrewed, so I am going to take it to my watch service so that I can identify the movement. I suspect that it is a "Studebaker."

Most of the South Bend 12 size were produced in small numbers according to the Engle et al. price guide I have, but prices quoted are fairly low.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 May 13 - 05:14 AM

Just acquired a 1950s Gruen wristwatch (more thread drift...). Very nice blue and gold dial, and a sweet movement.

Gruen face

Gruen movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 13 - 12:09 PM

That Gruen is an attractive watch.
I yielded to impulse and bid in a Lord Elgin with movable lugs that allow it to rest on the side of the wrist, for easy viewing when driving. It too, has a classic black face and is in excellent condition.

It arrived last week and I have been wearing it. Were these watches sold with the movable lugs or is it "aftermarket"?

I also picked up an Omega Seamaster, 23j cal 1022. It is keeping perfect time. It is a model unpopular with collectors (day-date) so it was very reasonable compared with designs lacking the day in the window. It has the original bracelet in good condition, the proper crown, and the dial is in excellent original condition.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:58 PM

The "drivers' watches" were designed to be worn on the side of the wrist while driving - with the moveable lugs as an integral part of the design. I wore my drivers' Wittnauer recently on a journey, and it worked beautifully - just a glance and the time was right there!

Congrats on the Seamaster, by the way - hope it didn't break the bank!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:02 PM

The Seamaster was $300. An unpopular design but the same 1022 cal. of other models.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 13 - 06:54 PM

The day/date Seamaster was unpopular because the calendar parts wore and were expensive to replace.
If you are not particular about that, the watch is the same excellent timekeeper as the other models.

Mine has a calendar problem. I will ask olddude, when he gets back, to see his watchmaker about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 13 - 07:29 AM

Just got myself a very nice Waltham Vanguard railway watch from 1901 - 23 jewels, nice 10ct gold-filled hinged case - and a fairly clean (if slightly worn) railway-style dial.

Face

Movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 13 - 11:54 AM

Gee whillikers! Great watch and condition looks excellent.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 13 - 12:25 PM

It's very good - the case is ever so slightly scratched where the hinged parts have been opened (case knife on the inner dust cover, for example), but the overall condition is excellent for its age.

So far, keeping time to the second - not bad for 112 years!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 08 May 13 - 04:44 PM

beautiful watches Will

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 13 - 07:57 PM

Are you back, olddude? Hope you had a good time (I understand it was a family time holiday).

I have a question for your watchmaker. I have a fine looking Omega Seamaster, 23j, but the day-date doesn't work (or parts missing?). What does he think of the calendar mechanism? Is it difficult to get and repair/replace the parts?

I may send the watch to you if he says he can do the work reasonably.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 May 13 - 11:23 PM

He works on a ton of Omega watches. I am sure he can fix the date for you cheap ... I will ask him cause I will see him next week

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 May 13 - 04:21 AM

Hi Dan - good to see you back on the Most Important Thread on Mudcat! :-)

Hope you've been having a great time - and it really is good to see you back here.

One question for you: the Vanguard I've just got clearly datea from 1901, and the case and movement fit this period beautifully. I was struck, however, by the modernity of the near-Montgomery style face. Would this perhaps be a later change to the watch - or did those dials exist as early as that?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:01 PM

Will Fly, my guess is a replacement. That style seems to be 1920s. But I am NO expert on that. Replacements are not uncommon on the older watches that were lever set- accidents did happen, and it was a cheap repair.

Olddude, I will wait for his answer. The watch keeps time accurately, the automatic feature keeps it going overnight when I am in bed, it has the original bracelet and crown, and the dial is fresh and untouched. But I would like to have it up to original performance with the day/date performing.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:17 PM

Will is this watch a size 18 or 16? if it is 16, the dial is absolutely authentic. Waltham used painted dials on their 16's. It looks like an original dial to me. I have had 4 of them in size 16 and all exactly like yours. Now the size 18 used a enamel dial and was not painted but Waltham used those painted dials all the way up to the 1940's

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:19 PM

Any advice on getting a Hamilton 945, GF case? Are they any good?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 May 13 - 03:34 PM

There is no bad Hamilton BB, the 945 is a wonderful watch if you can get it under 200 nail it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:18 PM

The Hamilton 945 is Swiss made. One I found has 23j. Seems to be a very good watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:29 PM

Or are you talking about the 945 pocket watch? This is American made, small, 10 size.
Engle et al. Price Guide to watches (2011) lists it at $100-185-325 (the last for mint condition). Actual prices are somewhat higher.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:32 PM

The Waltham is a size 16, Dan - so it's probably as authentic as claimed by the seller. Hurray!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:41 PM

More on the 945 pocket watch. Adv. as adjusted to 20 seconds over the five positions. This from NAWCC post. A version of the 917 with more jewels.

I can find very little on the 945 wristwatch. It seems to be rare. One is shown on youtube.

Several watches shown on youtube. Interesting!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 13 - 07:01 PM

That 945 wrist watch on youtube is marked U.S.A. on the movement, but the dial says Swiss Made. I think the 1940-1950 date given the watch is wrong.
Were the movements left over after USA closure moved to Switzerland?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU33fCdbs00

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 13 - 07:21 PM

My latest purchase. I bought it to resell. 1966 Omega Seamaster automatic
24 Jeweled caliber 565 ... perfect runner. Mahlon needs to buff out the crystal for me and that is about it.

Omega

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 13 - 07:23 PM

It has an original omega baby croc band with it. Like those better then them bracelet

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 13 - 08:14 PM

Will see the recessed second hand dial on your Waltham. It is counter sunk. That is original painted dial from the date of the watch. Perfect and original. The la-rose replacement painted dials were not counter sunk.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 May 13 - 08:17 PM

Q you are right on the 945's they are scarce. They were American made by Hamilton however, they also kept the same line when Hamilton was bought out by the Swiss. If it is from the 50's it is American and well worth the cost if you can nail it under 200. Over that i would invest my money in a seamaster

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 May 13 - 04:01 AM

Nice Seamaster, Dan - show us a pic of the buffed-up face at some stage.

I'd also noticed that the Vanguard seconds dial was actually quite deeply countersunk - hadn't realised that was so significant though!

The watch is keeping fantastic time - to the second - not bad for 1901...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 May 13 - 01:31 PM

For anyone who is confused about Omega Seamaster calibres, there is a near complete listing, and parts list, at this site:

http://www.omega-fanatic.com/pages/gallery/omega-caliber-47032.

Many offers on Ebay omit the caliber because they can't open the watch (messes up the watrproofing in any case, if you are interested in that).

Many Omegas were produced, so prices are low in the price lists except for exceptional, mint or rare models. Some (many?) of the prices listed on Ebay are excessive.

Collectors seem to prefer plain steel over plated, because they can be buffed to remove minute scratches. (see olddude's).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 May 13 - 05:08 PM

Thanks Q, that is very useful to know there is a link. I really didn't need another seamaster but at 200 bucks I could not resist. Mahlon will buff it up for me

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 11:20 AM

The omega 565 looks like new after a mild buffing .. Wow ... I think it is a keeper since it is dead on accurate

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 May 13 - 11:33 AM

Here's my new Gruen Curvex "Precision" from 1950...

Gruen Curvex "Precision" 1950

All fully restored by a German watchmaker - wonderful curved body and huge domed glass - and keeps spot on time so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 May 13 - 12:17 PM

Nice looking watch. In a drawer I have an old Bulova "Curvex" that belonged to my father. along with a pocket watch.
It lacks a crystal and doesn't run, but I will have to dig it out and see if it is restorable.

Olddude, any response from Mahlon on difficulty and cost of repair of day-date function on Omega automatic?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 12:42 PM

Mahlon said he can handle it no issue ... however if it needs a part we may have to look for one
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 12:43 PM

Will
that is an awesome watch ... love it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 09:16 PM

still goo goo over this Seamaster 565 ... absolutly beautiful after buffing and it has not lost a sec since I strapped it on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 13 - 10:32 PM

bad lighting it is steel but the light on my cell phone made it look gold colored. But it cleaned up beautiful
565

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 May 13 - 10:00 PM

I am convinced that omega makes the best wrist watches ever made. That 565 is keeping 992B time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 May 13 - 10:02 PM

I should say made since Omega was bought out by swatch 25 years ago. The 50's and 60's and 70's flavor of the seamaster is the ones I think you should focus on if you plan on getting one. If you find one that needs work Mahlon is a master on them and has a lot of parts as long as they are the standard stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 May 13 - 04:28 AM

That really has come up well, Dan - looks gorgeous.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 11:11 AM

thanks Will, the one you got me is still my favorite

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 12:37 PM

Omega made a fine watch that was affordable to those who wanted something better than the cheapies of the day, but could not afford Patek Philipe or Vacheron Constantin.
As a result they carved out an important niche for themselves.

Clever advertising and upgraded models made Rolex a leader in a higher price range. Experts I know prefer Rolex, but they don't knock Omega's better calibres.

Collectors go for the pre-Swatch Omegas.

Rolex put out passable or so-so watches before a shift in philosophy and factory upgrade led to the fine watches that they produce today. I have a couple of these early ones (often sold under store names) but none of the fine ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 01:49 PM

The 565 was made into the 50,800,000 numbers, which brings it up to 1986.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 01:55 PM

Sorry, I misread a 3 for a 5 in the serial number. the 30,000,000 numbers are 1970s.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 02:18 PM

Omega serial numbers:

http://chronomaddox.com/omega_serial_numbers.html

Accurate to 2 years either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 15 May 13 - 04:30 PM

Since this seems to be a knowledgeable place to ask - I inherited a pocket watch and pocket stopwatch from my grandfather. I don't think they're old or valuable, but I don't know how to even begin finding out. One is silver hallmarked, so it's got some scrap value at least!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:09 PM

sure just take a pic and we can let you know.

Q my 21 Jeweled seamaster is 1972. My lastest the steel cased 24 Jeweled is 1966

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:52 PM

Hey Q
my date was sticking on my latest seamaster. A simple drop of oil fixed it just fine. I suspect that is your problem on yours

dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 13 - 07:28 PM

Guest Calum-
Give us all the words you can read on your watch and stopwatch and we will try to help.
If the back of the watch unscrews or comes off easily, give us all the words you find on the movement.

Be careful, some of the older English watches are easily damaged (or any watch, for that matter).

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 11:17 PM

This is my seamaster collection so far
1966 24 Jeweled 565 auto with date
1967 17 Jeweled 601 manual wind
1972 21 Jeweled 1110 auto with date
1971 17 Jeweled 1120 auto with date

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 15 May 13 - 11:20 PM

Wills 601 is absolutely mint but the 565 sure came out beautiful also. The 1110 is at Mahlons getting a full Coa (going to sell it) That one has a square dial. Beautiful watch

The 1120 is fine, I will get it serviced when I get time. I never wear it and I will probably sell it. The only two I want is Wills 601 and the 565

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:16 PM

565

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:21 PM

just noticed I need to set the date

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:36 AM

hey check out this little ditty my daughter bought me
itsreal

Hey Q do you want my 565 Omega for 250 bucks?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:46 AM

Rolex Original 3135 Automatic Mechanical Movement
2
3
4

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:57 AM

it needs serviced but Mahlon is certified to work on Rolex. He said no issue he wants to work on it really bad. I guess I am now done for I don't think I will need another.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:20 AM

steel case needs polished but it will be perfect when I am done
back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:21 AM

I think she nuts up my collecting .. now what do I shoot for gosh

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 02:49 AM

Doug thinks it is a knock off. he should know. Lucky she did not pay a lot for it ... Oh well back to collecting

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 May 13 - 04:27 AM

Interesting about the Rolex, Dan - what are the reasons for the conclusions about it being a knock-off? I know very little about Rolex watches, so I'm curious to know what one should look for.

I know with Omega, for example, that the style of the case, the crown, the dial - all have some bearing on whether it's an original, a refurb or a fake. Do the same things go for Rolex? And, of course, there's the movement...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 09:45 AM

I didn't get it yet, she mailed it but the movement will tell me for sure. Doug says the case and bracelet is not correct .. I guess it is possible it was recased but I will see when I can pop open the movment

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 17 May 13 - 10:40 AM

It is possible that someone put an original movement in an after market case. Even so the knocks offs can be expensive and it looks like a beautiful watch. I will cherish it cause my kid got it for me

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:55 PM

Doug is correct, the case and bracelet are wrong. The crown and *"pushy pins" are not Rolex designs that I can find.
When you get it, please post pictures of the movement.

* My daughter's term. I like it!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:04 PM

Thanks, that is a super price for a 565. I have one, but date only.

I also have a 1022 that needs service, and a "mystery" Seamaster auto (haven't opened it) that I picked up long ago with another watch. It is about 1960s vintage.

I don't want another Omega, but thanks.

I have 3-4 watches that need service, and I will concentrate on those, getting them up to snuff

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 17 May 13 - 02:30 PM

Thanks very much, all. Apologies in advance for the dreadful and oversized pictures - all the quality a cellphone can produce.

http://www.callingthetune.co.uk/watch/

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 13 - 03:00 PM

Calum-
The Swiss stop watch looks like a good quality instrument.

The half-hunter pocket watch has set jewels, and the movement seems un-rusted. The dial is in good condition and looks like porcelain finish. It too, looks like a good watch- not the very expensive, but good quality. Some smaller maker's watches did nor have trademark names, but the watchmakers name or initials are usually on them. Another possibility is that the watch was cased by a dealer, who obtained the movements separately.

In any case, BOTH look worth taking to a watch repair, and finding out more about them. They are not cheapies, and seem worthy of repair. Something you might want to keep as family items.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 13 - 03:07 PM

Calum, the pictures seem to show a lever-set watch. Another sign of a better watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 17 May 13 - 05:16 PM

Thanks, Q. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are good quality pieces - my grandfather's family were Navy men back to Nelson and beyond, and they tended to buy things that would last. Someone recently pointed out to us that a set of twelve chairs we've had kicking around the house since forever are in fact George III vintage. Not a dab of glue or a screw in sight and they're as tight as a drum.

Yes, I can't see me wanting to move them on but it's worth knowing how to look after them and whether or not to insure them! I'll find someone to take a closer look - shouldn't be hard to find someone in London.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 13 - 02:22 PM

olddude, this is a must for your collection.
Breguet tourbillon chronograph, in stock at the Watchery for $130,626, on sale! This is their type XX.

The offer says that Breguets were supplied to American pilots starting in 1918.
Anyone know about this?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:00 PM

so I get my watch today, go over to Mahlon roll up my sleeve and he goes. Wow where did you get that really bad Chinese fake Rolex .. LOL

it does run and keep time however, lucky she did not pay much for it,

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:04 PM

Q
I just bought one like it ... it comes right from China, like my rolex LOL

Mahlon said he will fix up your Omega's cheap as you are a good friend to me. Just picked up my seamaster 1110 perfect running now. I dropped it and blew a balance staff. Tried to pay him and he booted me out of the shop.   I have to learn not to argue with my Amish friends they always win ... I will get him back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:05 PM

Calum
that is a beautiful watch. The movement to my eye looks quality also. Swiss I think I don't believe it is English. Case is however .. that is not unusual at all ... wonderful family piece

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:18 PM

I have a Chinese watch, 27 jewel, automatic, with calendar and stopwatch functions, and it runs well.
The movement is probably similar to that in some of the Rolex-etc. knockoffs.
Amazing what is done in modern mass production plants.

I think I posted about it before, clunky and the function knobs get pushed by shirtsleeves. But not bad for under $100.

I am thinking about posting that Omega to you. The postage/insurance will be a bit high, and I will have to pay Canadian sales tax on the repair.
I'll let you know soon. I will get an estimate from my watchmaker here. He has received enough work from me that he won't mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:21 PM

Thanks olddude,

For what it's worth the hallmarks on the case seem to definitely be Swiss silver, but as you say a very English style case.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 May 13 - 09:18 PM

no you will not have to Q, I will tell him to mark it gift when he ships it back or I will mark it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 May 13 - 01:16 PM

In mailings to Canada, never use the "gift" statement unless the value is $25 or less.

The word "gift" is a red sign to Customs post inspectors. The package gets held and it takes a lot of talk and payment of their assessment, which usually is Canadian retail for a new, similar item, to get it.

Often a properly declared package will go into the out bin without examination if they are busy.

Sometimes one is lucky with that gift statement, but much safer to declare approx. value.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 13 - 12:19 PM

I spotted three watches at a timed online auction some weeks ago, so put in a minimum bid. There was no info about the watches other than that one of them had "Roamer" on the dial. Derek, my watch repairing friend in Hamble, collects Roamers and I thought he might be able to do something with it. The auction lot arrived through the post - two of the watches were cheap quartz crap (destined for the rubbish drawer) - but the Roamer didn't look too bad, so I had it over to Derek's for a sort-out. Collected it this morning with a new mainspring, new crystal, new button, cleaned, serviced and with some gentle polishing to the dial - all for £35... Turned out it was a MST 402 from around 1950 - and a good quality movement.

I was going to put it on eBay - but I've ended up wearing it - and it's a keeper!

Roamer 402 face

Roamer 402 movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 May 13 - 12:30 PM

I see the Roamer is 17j. New name to me. An attractive face.

There is a Wikipedia article on them, which I just found. Looks like the company is still around. The article states older Roamers are collected. The illustration looks like your watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 12:30 PM

Well, folks, this may be it! A reincarnation of the old trustworthy Ingersoll and Westclox dollar pocket watches.

Price on Ebay- 0.01. Postage 9.99. Hunter-cased with chain. From China.

OK, I'm a sucker for these things. I'll describe it when I get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 12:48 PM

Just dug out an old Westclox pocket watch. It is marked Made in Canada.
Gone are the days when Canada had a lot of manufacturing plants. Now everything is oriental in flavor.

I have a Leica M-4 camera and 90mm telephoto lens, both made in Canada, when Leitz had a plant here. I bought them new when they were made.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 May 13 - 02:11 PM

Price on Ebay- 0.01. Postage 9.99. Hunter-cased with chain. From China.

Got one about a year ago - just out of curiosity! As light as a feather and as cheap as chips (as we say over here). Keeps great time and, when it stops working - as it surely will - I'll hang it on the wall as an ornament.

I'm sure they press the parts out as almost one piece... But - as you say - the modern equivalent of the dollar watch, just flimsier.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 03:23 PM

I have a daughter who always needs vintage props for little theatre, and a grandson who is working this summer at a heritage site (Ft. Steele, B.C.).
I may get another cheapie or two- if they get lost, no big deal.

Surprised to find Westclox listed in the Engle et al. price guide. Some interesting models. I can understand now why some collect the "dollar" watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 May 13 - 07:15 PM

Will
that roamer has a nice movement .. heck ya I bet it keeps good time. nice watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 May 13 - 06:08 AM

It's keeping great time, Dan - I'm pleasantly surprised by the overall quality. My friend Derek (who collects them) thinks they're very under-rated - particularly the pre-quartz era calibres. And, because he collects them, he has a shed-load of spares and can do most anything with the brand.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 May 13 - 04:34 PM

In the 50's there were lots and lots of small watch companies that made very high quality watches but folded only because they could not compete with the big guys.   On the NAWCC they talked about many of them and what a deal a person can get with some of these undervalued small shop companies. I am not sure your company size it may have been larger or smaller but from what I can see that is a fine watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 May 13 - 05:34 PM

Here's some info on vintage Roamer watches...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 13 - 10:56 AM

Since Olddude and Q dropped into the eBay thread to compare notes, I thought I'd stop by the Pocket Watch thread to see if you were still really talking about watches. (I hasten to add that I didn't doubt it - if some of us can spend years discussing the wide-reaching topic of "decluttering" and do everything from garage sale hints to talking a member through cancer, who knows what potential lurks in a pocket watch thread?)

It's a little "Antiques Roadshow" here at Mudcat, perpetually stuck in the timepiece episode. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 13 - 12:39 PM

SRS, as a long time clutterer, I am wary of declutterers, unless they aim declutter-discards my way, but you are welcome so long as you refrain from proselytizing in the watch thread.

(My clutter words have red lines below them, meaning my version 7 doesn't recognize them.)

Now I must sign off, Ebay offers are calling.....

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 13 - 12:47 PM

Oh, no fear- I tend to reclutter as fast as I declutter. With a higher class of clutter. I'm thinking about adding a really big piece of high-quality clutter right now. (Not a watch, but a quarter-sawn oak art deco bar.)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 13 - 01:02 PM

My daughter is a chip off the old..., as they say. She reclaims wood furniture from the smalltown dump near where she lives. Best picks were a mahogany extension table, several 19th C. chairs, and a good mahogany wardrobe.

No watches in the dump so far, but she has a nice Rado from a garage sale.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 May 13 - 07:12 PM

LOL SRS just don't ask us what time it is, we would have to check all five that we carry and then take a guess which one is right
:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:43 PM

I didn't know that Seiko makes automatic watches. Several dealers offer a 21j automatic for under $75.
Anyone have any experience with them?

They issued a limited edition of 50jewel automatics, but these were priced at several thousand dollars.

They make (or made) pocket watches, but they all seem to be quartz.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:58 PM

Hi, Q -

I think you're talking about the "Seiko 5" 7S26A movement automatic wrist watches (21 jewel) Have had one for about three years & it keeps decent time.

They are, however, quite thick- 10 to 11 mm or so & thus a bit clunky.

But for 60-75 dollars, I think they're a pretty goood deal.

Your mileage may vary.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 May 13 - 11:44 AM

Seiko automatics are wonderful watches. Mahlon says he snaps them up whenever he finds one. they use them as pocket watches, tough, keep time and are very accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 03:48 PM

Most be a model change, or discontinued series, but Seiko automatic new 21jewel wristwatches are going cheap on Ebay. I just bid one in for $41.
Some with chronometer works for under $100.

They are sold with tag but no box or instruction booklet.

Just received that $0.01 hunter case pocket watch with chain from Hongkong, with battery and running. 24 hour dial.
It is very attractive. Postage $10 (maybe half of that was the watch cost?). Tempted to get a couple more.
Anyone know the battery number? I don't want to open it before I send it off for use with costume at a heritage site. No information sent with the watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 02:13 PM

Heck ya can't buy a hand for .01 Q so its a good deal for sure.
The old Seiko 5's are my favorite. I think I bought 4 or 5 of them for Mahlon on ebay cheap

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 02:18 PM

I picked up this wittnaur 17 jeweled model 2000 circa 1970 for 60 bucks. Great running watch all original needs nothing but to polish the crystal

17 jeweled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 03:20 PM

By the way Mahlon says the old Seiko 5 models will go toe to toe with an Omega

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 03:57 PM

That $0.01 hunter case pocket watch- Can it be opened for a new battery, or do you throw it away when it quits?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 04:14 PM

no you can open it, usually they are snap on not screw, I bought one for my grandson and replaced the battery just fine. Uses a common battery at any store

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 07:44 PM

My daughter took it (the $0.01) to the watchmaker, along with a good watch needing service. We couldn't find any seam on the back. We will report what he said.

There are fake Seiko model 5 watches out there. They have metal or silvered day and date wheels- Seiko has used plastic since 1990. Also any with the calibre marked 7526 (a mistake from 75s6). This from EBay-
"Counterfeit Seiko 5 Automatics, the Easy Tell"

Seiko does not participate in EBay's VRO program so it is up to the buyer to check for Seiko fakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 03:58 AM

Nice Wittnauer, Dan - not my style I have to say, but Wittnauers in general are damned good watches. Like Gruen, they were established in the US with parts specially made for them in Switzerland and then cased in America (mainly).

Wittnauer were a branch of Longines, made in the same factory, but in a separate section - with Wittnauer-only parts, if what I read is correct.

I particularly like the period from 1930s to 1950s for these watches.

HEY - how come this Old Pocket Watch thread is being drawn to the Dark Side... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 01:17 PM

Good question Will ... I been waiting for a rare Hamilton pocket watch to come back from Mahlon's ... The gears had some spots so after grinding the spots off he had to redo the intrique damaskeen work .. amazing. Saw what he was doing yesterday

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 02:57 PM

Just got the Westclox Train Conductor pocket watch and chain, in original box. Attractive gold color, locomotive on back.
A nice addition to a grandson's period suit that he wears at the Fort Steele heritage site (B. C.).

I would like to know when this model 40077 was last made.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 03:01 PM

From the early 80's Q

http://www.ubbcentral.com/store/item/the-conductor-westclox-pocket-watch-new-old-stock-boxed-needs-cleaning-1980s_190731294045.html

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 03:55 PM

I want a Waltham or Elgin with the wind indicator ... I went up to 800 bucks on one and lost ... Ahhhh if only money wouldn't get in the way of stuff right

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 04:15 PM

Q my seamaster double date died, it stopped changing the date. Mahlon said common problem and then said good thing I have lots of Omega parts that you gave me ... I guess that is an issue with the seamasters

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 06:11 PM

I'm still keeping an eye out for a Waltham with a wind indicator - but they go for megabucks!

And I also have to save for a guitar I've commissioned...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 01:17 PM

Thanks, Olddude.

I would like one of those with the wind indicator, but out of my budget.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 09:22 AM

Okay, let's pick the mind of the Mudcat collective.

I've got an old silver watch which I'm considering putting on E-Bay, but want to describe it accurately.

It appears to be an 'open-face' watch (no metal covering over the glass? covering of the face).
The stub for the fob/chain is at the 12 o'clock position.
The glass front is hinged, the second hand is missing, the hour hand has snapped off.
The rear of the case is hinged, and bears within the case a hallmark which appears to show: a lion (sterling silver?) a leopard's head (not crowned) London? a letter 'K' in a shield with shaped top (1885?)
And a (pattern?) number 16018    - no idea
And a maker's mark (in a horizontal oval) "A.V" - also no idea

I'm in work at the moment, so don't have it with me to answer any questions, but - Any clues?

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:03 AM

It's British, it is sterling silver, could not tell you more unless I saw the movement. Will could probably date it for you by the Hallmarks. My guess 1880's

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:14 AM

Nigel - the hallmarks and the "AV" probably give a clue to the maker, and I suspect that your "AV" may be "AY", who was Alfred Yardley,a case maker based in Coventry, in 1885. Check the "V" and it may well actually be a "Y" - and 1885 sounds like your hallmark description. Yardley had his cases assayed in London, and was a registered silversmith in 1885.

Questions:

1. Is there a maker's signature on the watch dial?

2. Have you had the back completely open - the outer case usually/often conceals an inner, hinged dust cover which you may have to prise open with a case knife. There may be a maker and/or serial number engraved on the actual movement.

3. Does the watch wind from the crown, or is there a keyhole in the inner dust cover?

4. Does the crown pull out to set the hand, or is there a square profile to the centre staff (where the hands fit)? A square centre staff may indicate that the hands are set with a key if the crown doesn't pull out. Do you have a key?

5. If there are two holes in the inner case, one is for winding and one is for hands setting.

6. What is the case quality like - dinged, worn, clean, sound, scratched?

7. Is the dial free of hairlines, cracks and chips?

8.Does the watch - in spite of missing hands - actually work when wound? If no, sell as "spares or repair".

If you sell on eBay, these are the points that buyers will look for! Take lots of photos - large scale - of dial, back outer, back inner, movement, etc. Even if the movement is crap and the hands are missing, you can sell for the silver content.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:27 AM

Thanks OldDude & Will:
1. Don't recall any identifier on the dial
2. Inner case appears to be sealed with two small screws which I haven't managed to move yet.
3, Inside keyhole (in face or case, I can't remember, I'll check tonight)
All the rest needs confirming with the original!

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 08:08 PM

olddude, my watchmaker set up my 1022 Omega, and it is working fine now.

Nigel, found a couple of keywind watches in hallmarked English cases. One was dated 1880s, the other had a Waltham movement of much later date. I know nothing about them, but the latter seems to me to be a case with a later movement installed.

Not enough information to guess at ebay prices.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 11:20 AM

Hey Dan, do you recall the Elgin wristwatch that you gave me many months ago?

I took it to my friend Derek to have it cleaned and serviced recently. He cleaned it, swapped the stainless steel strap for an American gold-plated strap ("Speidel, USA" on each link), cleaned the dial and hands, and put in a new crystal as the old one was pretty scratched. It looks a treat.

The fascinating thing is that, althought the dial is signed "Elgin", the movement inside is a Savoie P72 - sometimes known as a Lorsa P62 movement. Savoie - sometimes known as Savoy - was based in the Haute Savoie region of France, right on the French/Swiss border. But they were originally a New York-based firm who shipped in Swiss movements for use in American watches - a bit like Wittnauer and Gruen. I asked Derek whether the case and dial could have been fitted with a new movement - and he said no, they were originally together when cased.

So, even before Elgin was sold in the late 1960s, they were using non-American parts and movements for their later watches. Apparently, the P62 is a fine movement.

Great little piece of American/Swiss watch history - and the watch looks great!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 02:29 PM

My grandson got the Westclox "railroad" pocket watch. My daughter gave it to him to wear in his guide job at the Fort Steele heritage site. He complained that after a day, it stopped. My daughter looked at it, and wound it. Seems he didn't know that there were mechanical watches that didn't use a battery. I guess many kids nowadays have never seen or used a mechanical watch.

On impulse, I bought a new Seiko watch for $41 on ebay. It is automatic, day-date, circular, stainless steel with stainless steel band and see through back. Sold with tag but no box or booklet.

On inspection, it is the 7S 26 caliber, marked with the 5 logo and Seiko on the face, marked automatic, 21 jewel. The numerals are steel-color, very readable. Sweep second hand. Small when compared with Seikos with functions.
I wore it for about 2 hours last night, took it off, and this morning it was still running, with the accurate time. The movement must be well-balanced.
The day markers are in French, so today came up "MAR."
I found setting directions on the net.

This bargain Seiko would make a good present for your kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:16 PM

Comparative prices, some Waltham pocket watches, 1901
Canadian catalogue, but prices were close in U.S. catalogues.

18 size, nickel case
P.S. Bartlett, nickel case 17j   $9.25
Appleton Tracy nickel case 17j adj   $18.00
"Railroader" 17j Silver case $19.65
Same, gold-fill case   $23.90
Crescent St. 21j         $23.75
Appleton Tracy New Model $19.75
Same, gold-filled case   $23.90
Same, GF case. "C.P.R." movement 21j $28.25
"C.P.R." nickel case $22.50
Vanguard nickel movement and case 21j $27.75
Vanguard, same, silver case $29.50
Vanguard, same, gold-filled case $34.00

In 1901, the 16 size was new; only 17j movements offered. The new 12 size also had only up to 17 j movements.

T, Eaton Co. Catalogue, Toronto, Canada. 1901

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:50 PM

Great Will that is awesome ... Wow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 04:54 AM

I acquired a second Elgin 571 "B.W. Raymond" a few months ago. It had the wrong winding stem and crown and was a bit tricky on time. I've managed to get a winding stem made for it and it winds and runs OK, but the crown is still the wrong shape.

Its main problem is that it runs perfectly - face down - but stops when turned over! My friend Derek believes it's a pallet problem but you just can't get parts or Elgin expertise over here, and he's reluctant to touch it.

So - it's going off to Mahlon with a covering letter - which I should have done in the first place!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:11 AM

Well I know he has all the parts you need cause I gave him a ton of parts for Elgins. He will make it sing for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:21 PM

my latest while I am waiting for my pocket watches to get done. This is a Hamilton model called Turner it is 1935 pretty hard to find not rare but dang hard to find in this condition. It is 17 Jeweled perfect timekeeper

Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:22 PM

screams art deco doesn't it ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:23 PM

Hey mud elf can we change the thread to "Old Timepieces"

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:52 AM

That's a lovely Hamilton, Dan - just my sort of shape and style for a wristwatch. Looks great!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 09:38 AM

Thanks Will
The ones from the depression era are quite scarce. They didn't sell a lot of them for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 12:49 PM

Hamilton probably issued more design variations than any other company.
Some, like the Turner are excellent. I agree that the depression era watches of Hamilton are "classic" - and few show up on eBay. Some (Cambridge) are very expensive, it looks like the Turner, but has Arabic numerals.

Yes, I think a name change is a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 09:53 AM

Yes but they issued the Turner with Arabic numerals also.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 01:23 PM

That $40 dollar Seiko automatic (21j) is keeping perfect time. I have to learn the dates in French- Today is DOM .

The "Turner" illustrated in the Engle "Price Guide" has Arabic numerals. But if your watch is depression era, it probably is the "Donald." The "Turner" is c. 1950. You can't kill a good design!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 01:52 PM

olddude, ignore my last post.
The "Price Guide shows two "Turner designs. One has the angled sides, like yours, dated c. 1936.
A second "Turner" has almost straight sides (no angle), dated c. 1953; it is the one that looks like the "Donald" c. 1941.

Two different "Turner" shapes confused me. Your photo is of a design close to the 1930s "Turner" and probably was the same design but with a dial variant.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 03:39 PM

Q
I got it from one of the big NAWCC Hamilton Collectors

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 03:25 PM

I may be wrong, but I think one of the Hamilton wrist movements worth having is the 770 22j, their last USA top movement. Look for the Hamilton logo on the crown, and check for USA case.

Some collectors accuse the company of "gilding the lily," as jewels over 19 add little to the quality of the movement. Nevertheless, it is a fine, round movement.

Prices are all over the place, but hunting should find a clean, running watch under $200.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 04:13 PM

yes 770 is the one to have I agree

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 09:40 PM

I nail a very very nice seamaster 565 24 Jeweled movement complete for 75 bucks for backup parts. Hell one small part is a 100 bucks. But now I am torn. I should probably get a case, dial, stem and hands as it would make a fine runner. But I will probably part it for my 565.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 10:16 PM

I wonder- get all the parts together, and you probably could get a 565 in "running" condition for less.
I have a 565 with a bubble window for the date. A pretty watch and not as big as the 1022 and those later calibers.

But $75 for a parts movement isn't bad a tall a tall.

I decided to pick up a few Hamilton wrist watches. So far, I have 1 770 22j and a 982 19j.
Now I want one of those 1930s like you have.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:23 AM

Here is one other I have. I forget the model it is tanglewood or something like that beautiful watch

1937

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:26 AM

another view of it
1937

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 08:42 AM

I have a similar model from the 1940s - squarer in shape but with the same rose-pink dial. They're great watches, and getting harder to find for a reasonable price over here.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 09:51 PM

olddude, looks like the Custer, 1935-1936, but the illus. I have seen are poor. I presume a 982?

That coral center is nice, I thought they used yellow only.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 11:09 PM

1300

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 09:20 AM

982 Q

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:09 PM

The 982, according to what I could find, was produced from 1935 to 1952 (with modifications during and following WW2.

770 from 1956 to 1969.

987 from 1924 to 1948, but with variations. The first (to 1929) had semi-friction balance jewelling. Them an improved version with improved friction jewelling for the wheel train was introduced.
Now don't ask me to explain that, but go to our old friend google to find http://vintage-hamilton-wristwatches.com/2012/10/hamilton-987-movement-variations....., by Tom Adelstein. The article gives clear pictures of the models.
Adelstein considers his 1938 Martin a bargain, compared "to $5000 + wristwatches made and sold today."

From the Price Guide-
Martin, c. 1941, gold-filled coral (rare) $125-$225. Gold filled yellow $75-$125.
This and all other models are in demand, so expect a good one to sell for at least three times these 2011 catalogue prices.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:49 PM

semi-friction balance jewelling - synthetic jewels instead of the normal ruby or diamond. Wathmakers really don't want the true ruby as much for they break much faster. Most seitz jewels you see are synthetic except for the very old ones

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:50 PM

diamond still the best but way way too expensive

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 11:13 AM

Hey Q
do you want my Hamilton Turner for 200 bucks after Mahlon services it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 03:11 PM

Yep, I'll take it for sure.
I'll send you an email, asking best way to pay you, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 03:27 PM

I think it was Will Fly who mentioned Wittnauer watches a while back. I ran across a thread by a fellow selling a lot of watches he had reconditioned, and he had a number of Wittnauers.
Some very attractive watches!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 04:50 PM

Yes, 'twas I, Q - I have 3 Wittnauer wristwatches, all from the 1940s, and very nice they are too. Good movements and attractive faces - just like a few women I've known...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 07:38 PM

Q
only after Mahlon makes it perfect, needs oiled I can see it losing time so I want it perfect for you

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:39 PM

very scarce 1942 Original Canadian 992b in a Canadian sturdy case with original Canadian dial. They are very hard to find as all of the Hamilton watches went to the military that were grade 992b or 4992b very few for the civilian market as this is. Mahlon just did a full Coa and replaced the balance staff. Perfect time keeper. Case has had a hard life but fully functional

992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:46 PM

Pretty slick, Dan. Good on ya!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 01:28 PM

My Canadian 992B has the identical dial, but the figures 13-24 are in red. Mine is c. 1944.

Interesting note from NAWCC:
Around ser. C130,000 the design on the winding wheels changed from circular rings to swirl or smooth pattern.

The gold center wheel changed from gold to another composition around C118,000.

Dates (approx. range)
1941- C40,000
1942- C60,000
1943- C90,000
1944- C120,000
1946- C170,000

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 01:52 PM

Yup should have shown you the movement. Q, Mahlon also finish the COA on the Hamilton Turner. It was running just a bit fast so he is going to re-time it. Let you know. I spent the day with him yesterday. Lots of fun going around the antique shopping mall looking for watches. Found nothing but he had to go to that town anyway for some sugar for canning. I said hey I will drive you. We had a blast. The hamilton turner he said is mint and it is

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 13 - 09:39 PM

Just picked up a nice all original 1020 Omega automatic. Original with original band runs awesome

1020

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 01:05 PM

Very close to my 1022 in type, just cleaned by my watchmaker.
I was also lucky to get one with the original bracelet and crown, and cleaned but nor restored dial. Both are day-date. The 1022 is a little later, adding a few extra jewels.

1020- 17 jewels
1022- 23 jewels (after c. 1975)

The family (1972-1984) consists of numbers 1010-1022; plus manual wind 1030 and 1035, both 17 jewel. 1011 and 1021 were issued as chronometer (COSC testing).

I would like to find a good 1021 or 1011.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 01:09 PM

Somehow I have been bitten by the vintage Omega bug. It is a dangerous infection.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 01:16 PM

I've been bitten by the Roamer bug - much cheaper than Omega but a temptation to buy everything in sight!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 01:26 PM

Oh Q, I just gave my brother my 1021 Omega. Mahlon fixed it all up for me and he wanted it so I said here.

I got the Hamilton Turner back the 1935 one. It is mint if you still want it just let me know,

Will
I went to a flea market, got a 17 Jeweled Waltham, 21 Jeweled Bulova, 17 Jewel Baron, and an 17 Jeweled Elgin. All automatic wrist watches, from 60's all near mint. the lady said they were her dad's and he worked on watches. No kidding everyone is right on time and not a scratch on the dials or crystals. What a find. Have to give you guys a pic

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 01:29 PM

Looking forward to it Dan! I picked up a neat Elgin wristwatch from 1953 recently. Was convinced it would be a Swiss movement - but no - Elgin USA 1953!

Elgin Grade 683 from 1953

Elgin Grade 683 from 1953 - movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 01:31 PM

Damn! wrong movement URL. Here we go...

Elgin Grade 683 from 1953 - movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 02:47 PM

Olddude, I will paypal the 200 to you in the next couple of days. I will look forward to receiving it.

I have sent an Omega seamaster automatic to my watchmaker. Had it for years, and never opened it. I think I have mentioned it before. I am looking forward to finding out its caliber.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 02:56 PM

Money sent.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jul 13 - 12:43 PM

Between 1972-1980. Omega movements were also sold under the Tissot name.
These are Tissot 2451-2481.
Tissot 2481 is equivalent to Omega 1481 (automatic. 21-24j, date quickset).

I couldn't find Omega movements sold under other brand names.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 04:35 AM

Still checkin in from time to time. Love the pics, especially when movements are included.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 10:41 AM

Q
your watch will go out monday sorry for the delay I will mail when I get back home my brother

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 07:21 PM

I found an Omega 661 on ebay, This is the smallest ever industrial manufactured automatic movement. Dia. 15.0mm
Manufactured 1961-1973.
661 is 24j, 660 is 17j.
The watch is a rather slim rectangle, 21x40mm. Supposedly in good running condition, 1963, "Hesalite" crystal.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 11:30 AM

Dan - I found a nice face for the 925 you gave me some time ago. Had it fitted this morning. Here's what it looks like:

Hamilton 925 face

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 09:50 AM

awesome Will

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 03:37 PM

I tried to look at that, Will, and was told I would be advised by email if I was granted access to look at it.

Dan... as you know, I showed of the watch you sent me to Amos and his cousin. They liked it.

BTW... I DTILL haven't wound it. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 07:36 PM

Didn't see, I had to register or some such.

A few months back, I mentioned a South Bend pocket watch, size 12. I had bought it at a watch club, small, thin, light and a good runner.
I couldn't get the back off, but last week my daughter looked at it and with some patented gloves she had, was able to get the back off.
I had been afraid that my efforts would break the crystal.

It is the Studebaker model, 21j, adj. to 8 positions, "extra thin." In excellent condition with a clean GF case, "25 year."

Not RR acceptable, but a nice little watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 08:12 PM

Studebaker model, 21j fine watch for sure. Made by Illinois I believe. They did make some RR models also .. they are very sought after watches.

Mahlon repaired my Hamilton 934 and my Hamilton 996 .. Now I have to get him to restore my Hamilton 990

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 08:13 PM

wind er up GNU there is nothing you can hurt on it that I can't have fixed

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 01:22 PM

I just got back from the watchmaker an Omega Seamaster that I picked up at a local auction years ago, but never had serviced.
It is the caliber 503, 19-20 jewel, with a serial number that puts it at 1958-1959. Stainless steel with date, replacement band.
Wearing it and it is running well.
I now have six Seamasters, one needs service.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 04:32 PM

The Studebaker and 411, 429 were made in the South Bend Watch Company plant in South Bend, Indiana.

Watch cases were made for this model by several companies, including the Illinois Watch Case Company of Elgin, Illinois. Confusion arises because of the name of this company

The watch was never produced in the Illinois Watch Company plant in Springfield, Illinois.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Sep 13 - 06:59 AM

I've put my watch pics on Photobucket - so let's see if that 925 with the new face displays properly...

Hamilton 925 face

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Sep 13 - 08:05 PM

Your right Q ... South Bend .. I always get that one confused

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 05:20 PM

Thanks, Dan. Will... the pic is no go for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 03:26 AM

Ah, here we go again...

Hamilton 925 face

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 01:21 PM

Dan - can you give me Mahlon's address in a PM? (My laptop hard drive crashed a few weeks ago and I lost my contact list).

My Hamilton 23 needs a good service, and I only trust Mahlon to do it for me.

Thanks. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Sep 13 - 05:04 PM

Eight Months ago I gave Mahlon a Hamilton 996 for parts only. The plates were corroded, the wheels, the screws. strickly a parts watch. Today he gave me this for my birtday. He removed all corrosion which takes off all the beautiful damaskeen work, so he by hand, reapplied all the intrigate damaskeen on the movement, COA's it .. have a look at a one of a kind Hamilton 996.   He also blued the screws to make the damaskeen work pop.   I put it in a glass back bar over crown case until I can find a Hamilton display case

front

damaskeen inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:14 AM

Great stuff, Dan - what lovely workmanship.

I'm very tempted to ask Mahlon to turn my Hamilton 23 case rear into a display cover - the chronograph movement is wonderful to look at.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: maeve
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 11:38 AM

You might all enjoy this:
The man who makes £100,000 watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 02:13 PM

Roger Smith is fantastic - I watched a YT video of his where he just made a pair of watch hands - absolutely incredible workmanship!

One day, when I've sold all my possessions, I'll buy George Daniels's book...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: maeve
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 02:26 PM

There seem to be some good values on eBay for three(?) different George Daniels books...far less than most good pocket watches. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 04:03 AM

Over the years, a number of people - knowing my interest in things horological - have asked me questions about their own watches, and even given me their throw-outs to wreck (as only I can!). These discussions usually take place in my local pub, in the "old gits' corner", between the witching hours of 5.00pm and 6.30pm.

It was at that time yesterday that an acquaintance of mine handed me a hunter, saying, "This is for you - if you can make anything of it, repay me with a large scotch." The watch was a dark, shiny copper - almost mahogany in colour, through which the machine turning could be clearly seen. The winding stem mechanism was obviously faulty - sometimes winding, sometimes turning the hands and sometimes just turning loosely. The face was signed "Renown".

I got it home, opened up the case covers and spotted hallmarking - Birmingham, 1924, and "A.L.D." for the Dennison case company. I got out my silver cleaning cloth and started an exploratory polish - to reveal an immaculate machine turned hunter case. The face is also mint, with nice blued "moon' hands. The 7-jewel movement, though with the aforementioned stem problems, is as clean as a whistle and, when actually wound, is keeping good time. So - I'm very lucky, and my friend's large scotch will probably metamorphose into at least a half bottle. I'm off to my watchmaker friend Derek next week to get it (hopefully) fettled.

Case front

Case back

Face

The movement's a standard Swiss 7-jewel - nothing to write home about but nice and clean.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 07:00 AM

My Hamilton 992b is still running as close to perfect as anyone can expect. It has failed, however, to set itself for EST. That's the only advantage my cell phone has for keeping time. Thanks again, Dan!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 07:37 AM

Same with me Kendall. I have two 992Bs from Dan - both keeping fantastic time. Not quite as accurate as my Seiko Solar V158 wristwatch - but much prettier!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 02:16 PM

I just came back Mahlon. He has two new highly trained Amish watchmakers. He said he has a small lull in action so now is a great time if anyone needs service.

I just picked up two mint perfect Hamilton wrist watches. A 1937 Dodson and a 1937 dixon.

Absolutely beautiful .. however I still carry a 992b daily

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 02:59 PM

Hi, Dan- possibly a silly question, but just womdering how Mahlon pronounces his name. MAH-lon or MAY-lon; have heard it both ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 03:09 PM

May Lon

you gotta see what he is doing ... he made me a pen ... installed a 19J Hamilton ladies watch in it .. so now I have a pen watch .. made the pen barrel made the case .. he just showed it to me ... he has to finish one small thing but said it was for me ... Holy cow was that cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 05:20 PM

Wow. I love it! - Can you post a photo of it when he's done with it?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 03:12 PM

The perfect fishing watch. This bulova is the oceanographer 333ft watch. It is hand wind.   The band is a handmade sterling with turquoise and red coral underneath. I got the thing for 30 bucks threw it in the bathtub overnight .. perfect waterproof right on time. No kidding these are inexpensive and from the 60's ... best fishing watch for me ever

bulova

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 08:42 PM

After a little research the sterling watch band was made by Rose Castillo Draper when she was just Rose Castillo .. Made in Albuquerque NM a very sought after Navajo silver jewelry maker ... very cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 04:43 PM

Bulova put out some good watches for little money.
I wore one when traveling. It has a 24 hour dial, useful in Europe. Marked R.R.9162 Q. Swiss movement.
Paying for purchases in a drugstore, I saw it in a counter display of watches. That was in about 1960. Battery driven, keeps near perfect time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:38 PM

Wore the little 1891 Waltham & chain to our art association's holiday-show gala reception Saturday night. I just crank it up for special occasions. It is approx 2 minutes a day slow; would it make sense to tweak the speed set ever so little, or should I leave well enough alone? It's really a non-issue for me. I get a kick out of showing off the thing, wearing it with a vest my gal made for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:43 PM

you can tweek it without hurting anything bro ... just remember where is was at before you changed it in case you get it way out .. bump it up ever so slightly and see

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 09:31 PM

When I sent it to you, the back was just flopping open; didn't snap shut securely. Is there anything I should know now to open it, other than prying it open carefully, so I don't mess it up?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 10:43 PM

use a flat knife carefully you will see the little bulge on back of case pop it open there. pry gentle. move regulator up third of knotch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 02:44 PM

OooKay...just gave it an itty tweak; now to see how it looks in a day or so...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Nov 13 - 04:51 PM

A 1952 Hamilton Durham Tonneau wrist watch. This model is very scarce. It is mint and clean and perfect running condition. 150 bucks if anyone wants it, that is a steal actually

great watch
saw one on Ebay for 350 and it sold

hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 13 - 05:27 PM

Hey, that's a neat watch, Dan. I'm sorely tempted. I've got my eye on a Hamilton US Navy pocket watch. If I miss it, I may well go for your Hamilton.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Nov 13 - 05:59 PM

100 bucks for you my brother.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 13 - 06:11 PM

OK Dan, let's see how my snipe goes... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Dec 13 - 06:36 AM

Dan - I was out-sniped for the Hamilton Navy watch - so I'll take up your offer on the Durham. $100+ postage?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 01 Dec 13 - 10:21 AM

ok bro
send me your address via PM
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Dec 13 - 11:26 AM

PM sent.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 05:13 PM

My daily watch when I don't carry my 992b

this is a 1936 Hamilton Clark, tank ... I love the tank watches of this era

clark

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 11:24 PM

this one is a 1939 Hamilton Dixon that Mahlon just did a full COA on it
I am going to ebay it so if anyone wants it here 125 bucks. Going to ask 225 on ebay

1939

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 03:26 PM

one more that I wear quite a bit. This is a rare 1935 Hamilton "Calvin"
tank. beautiful time keeper

calvin

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Dec 13 - 06:42 PM

another from my collection that I absolutely love. This is a 1929 Hamilton Greenwich

29

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 04:14 AM

Those Art Deco-ish dials are very tasty. It's interesting to see how watches have grown in size. I often see a 1930s or 1940s wristwatch on eBay described as a "woman's watch" when, in fact, it might well have been a man's watch in intent.

My '40s dials are somewhere around 33mm in width - the one on my wrist at the moment (a Seiko solar powered one) is 40mm wide - and I've seen them up to 43mm or even 45mm in width! With dials like gas meters.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 01:36 PM

so true Will. I love those old little watches. You can wear them and not even know it is on your wrist. The big chunky ones are a pain and catch on everything when you reach for something. The old little ones got soul for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 01:41 PM

Large dials, especially with stopwatch, etc. features are big sellers at present, many at $99 or less. Sears, Macy's and other big store advs. are full of them.

I like the smaller models of the past, and they need only have a seconds hand. Dates I get from my computer when I open up.

Years ago, I bought the Omega professional "moon watch" at a local auction. I seldom wore it; it was heavy, especially with the steel bracelet. Eventually, I sold it.

The heaviest watch I wear often is a Bulova (Swiss) with 24 hour dial (34 mm dia. case). It is now about 30-35 years old, takes a battery, and has never been serviced. I have mentioned it before, its price new was $75 or so.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 02:21 PM

Will
read your PM's
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 03:15 PM

Read 'em Dan - action tomorrow or Saturday - and thanks for the kind attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Dec 13 - 12:19 PM

I almost nailed a Hamilton 946 at a local auction but the price went through the roof ... that is one that I wish I had. They made so few of those 23J pocket watches. What a gem

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 04:12 AM

This is a nice chronograph from the 1960s. It's running very fast at the moment, and the chrono centre sweep hand needs resetting, so it's due a service in the New Year...

Swiss Emperor Landeron chronograph

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 05:11 PM

what a beauty Will. Love it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,greek
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 04:53 AM

Hi everyone!
A friend of mine has a CHAMBERS LONDON 18k gold pocket watch. It was given as a gift to his grandfather and has stayed in the family ever since. It has some marks on the back cover: JM, 18, crowns. Do you know if it's of any value and where can I ask about it? I can't find any info on the Internet. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 07:07 AM

How long is a piece of string...

The best bet is to look at eBay "sold" prices for 100-year old 18k gold pocket watches. Unless the movement and dial are exceptional, all the value is going to be in the scrap value of the gold. Is it key wound or crown wound? Is it a hunter, half-hunter or open face? Is it worn, scratched, dinged, perfect? Engraved, machine-turned, unmarked? What's the case weight without the movement.

Also check out online auction catalogues - try:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb

to see what the estimates are - but remember they're just a rough guide and may sell for a lot more.

If you can post a link to some pictures here, we may be able to help more.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 02:44 PM

I've been having a Swiss Emperor chrono from the 1960s cleaned and serviced. It's currently being tested for positions, but I've been sent pics of the work in progress. There's a before and after pic of the movement here.

It was apparently swimming in old oil...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 11:02 PM

So I bought three old watches on flea bay for a total of 60 bucks. This one had no crystal and looked like it was whipped. Mahlon and I finally got the case open and the movement was perfect. The dial is just dirty. He is restoring it for me. Turns out it is a 21 Jeweled Ball Hamilton ... What a find, can't wait to see it finished.

Ball

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 11:28 AM

That looks nice, Dan - you can see the quality through the grime on the dial - should clean up a treat, especially if Mahlon gives it his best!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 04:26 PM

Hey Will
Look what Mahlon did to the Ball RR watch. I recased it as someone tried to pry the old case open but that is the same dial and hands etc.
what a job he did

b4

after

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 05:03 PM

Good grief, Dan - that is fantastic work - the man is a Genius!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 06:07 PM

notice he reblued the hands also. I had a set of hamilton hands and he said no these are the original ball hands.

look at this movement and I was wrong, it is a 19J Ball Waltham not Hamilton. Mahlon said the Waltham Balls are harder to find

movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 11:15 AM

a very early 21J Hamilton 942 Railroad in an original Hamilton glass back salesman case. Very scarce

front

back

only recently I discovered if I flip it over I can tell the time :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 01:49 PM

Lovely stuff, Dan. Here's my Ball-Waltham movement from 1903:

face

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 02:29 PM

Art and craftsmanship personified. Quite the cleanup job.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 02:32 PM

just Beautiful Will,
and thanks gnu

awesome watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 02:11 PM

My latest toy, an official railroad Ball regulator
Ball

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 03:09 PM

That's sweet!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 04:36 PM

Ball Watch Company??? Looks as if someone was deliberately setting up one of my dumb jokes about fitting that thing in your pocket. : )

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 06:10 PM

I saw what you done, froggy. I was tempted.

Sweet piece, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 08:28 PM

Lol

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,greek
Date: 24 Apr 14 - 09:43 AM

It is in excellent working condition. The only thing missing is the seconds hand. It is 18k gold except for the chain which is 14k. I don't know the answers to your other questions... Can you help me by looking at the photos uploaded here? Thank you very much!
Chambers London pocket watch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 07:07 AM

How long is a piece of string...

The best bet is to look at eBay "sold" prices for 100-year old 18k gold pocket watches. Unless the movement and dial are exceptional, all the value is going to be in the scrap value of the gold. Is it key wound or crown wound? Is it a hunter, half-hunter or open face? Is it worn, scratched, dinged, perfect? Engraved, machine-turned, unmarked? What's the case weight without the movement.

Also check out online auction catalogues - try:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb

to see what the estimates are - but remember they're just a rough guide and may sell for a lot more.

If you can post a link to some pictures here, we may be able to help more.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,greek
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 04:53 AM

Hi everyone!
A friend of mine has a CHAMBERS LONDON 18k gold pocket watch. It was given as a gift to his grandfather and has stayed in the family ever since. It has some marks on the back cover: JM, 18, crowns. Do you know if it's of any value and where can I ask about it? I can't find any info on the Internet. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,greek
Date: 24 Apr 14 - 09:48 AM

Here is the link to my photos:

http://s1144.photobucket.com/user/bucketphoto2012/library/Watch

Chambers London pocket watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Apr 14 - 11:23 AM

18k gold will almost certainly give it an immediate value of around £500+. Whether the watch is worth more will depend on the quality of the movement and the quality of the maker.

The hallmarks will give you an assay office and a year. I can't tell from the photos, but there may well be a (case) maker's mark as well.

If you can find a case maker and a date and a movement maker, then an internet search may well give you more info about probable worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Apr 14 - 11:42 AM

Could you provide a photo of the back of the movement, after you open the inner case plate with the key wind opening? Or post any inscriptions that you find on the movement.

I haven't found Chambers in the watch book I have. It may be the name of a store or jeweler, and more information may be found on the movement.

The gold case suggests a good quality movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,greek
Date: 27 Apr 14 - 02:43 AM

OK. I asked him to open it and I'll post more photos.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 14 - 06:55 AM

Not much traffic on this thread these days, which is a shame. Anyway, I'll add a little something in the hope that those few of us who like these things are interested.

Here's a stunning little (30mm diameter) Hamilton 987S grade from 1940, with a hacking second hand. The face is sweet - and the movement is just beautiful!

Hamilton 987S face

Hamilton 987S movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 22 May 14 - 11:18 AM

Very nice hacking second hand...

Wutheheck is a hacking second hand ? : )

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 May 14 - 12:37 PM

The second hand can be stopped, for better synchronization.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 14 - 05:31 PM

When the crown is pulled out fully, it moves a hair spring against the balance and stops it - so the second hand stops as well. If you stop the second hand dead on 12 o'clock, then the watch can be synchronised exactly with another watch, or the speaking clock, or an atomic clock on your computer - or a radio time signal.

Hacking is a feature of military watches. This little Hamilton dates from 1940, so the movement may have been made for military use - though the case has no military markings, and the dial has Roman numerals, both of which are not usual for military issue.

My Hamilton 'GCT" (Greenwich Civil Time) 4992B WW2 navigator's watch from 1943 - one with a 24-hour dial - also has a hack on the seconds hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Mysha
Date: 27 May 14 - 12:45 PM

Hi,

Sorry for the marginal topic, but does anyone have experience with these Atlas Editions pocket watches? I'm curious about them, but for their wrist watches but I've seen a description saying it stopped working after something like ten days. I'd rather not throw money at them if they can't actually be used as what they purport to be: Watches.

Bye
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 May 14 - 04:10 PM

Use till they quit, then toss or give it to a child as a plaything.

It is a Chinese version of the dollar pocket watch of the old days, which were much better than the Atlas.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jun 14 - 10:47 AM



Watch Sells for $18,750

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 14 - 05:51 PM

They say "time is money"

I sure don't doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 07:43 AM

Here's a sweet addition to my collection. This is a USA-made, Lord Elgin "Clubman" from 1952 - Grade 680. A nice waffle dial and a sweet little movement in it. Just in this morning...

Lord Elgin Clubman face

Lord Elgin Clubman movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 01:39 PM

I love watch designs like, that, with a nice high grade movement engineered for maximum accuracy, and a face designed to tell ya approximately what time it is. : )

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 03:41 PM

The Lord
Elgin flavors are awesome watches. great find Will

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:15 PM

picked up a nice bunn special with a very nice display case. i did not get a deal but i did ok on it

1

2

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:20 PM

Nice one, Dan - now, THAT's my idea of a pocket watch. With my eyes, I can't quite make out if its a 60 hour version or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:23 PM

sadly not a 60 hr one but a real beauty

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:26 PM

It is that for sure, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:55 PM

I picked up a Bunn Special, 60 hour, 1927 date, a couple of years ago. The price was low because the case has an initialed back. The dial is identical to your Bunn.

It runs slow, 3min/week; I don't think it has been serviced since 1944 (watchmaker's mark).

I like those Lord Elgin wristwatches too, some nice cases. I have one with a black dial and square face that is as pretty a "dress watch" as one could desire. Some bargains out there, I could be tempted to start collecting again.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:26 PM

Hmmmm. A Lord Elgin like my black one, 21j, asking $89, no bids, up in 16 hours. 171394881652

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 03:30 PM

I don't post much on Mudcat these days but, as I've now created my watch website - Will's Watch Pages - I thought I'd resurrect this thread for those who still love the old watches and things related to them...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 03:47 PM

Awesome will great job

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 04:17 PM

Thanks Dan - nice to hear from you.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 07:51 PM

Youdid ggreat. Will. I just picked up a first run 992 hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Mar 15 - 05:22 AM

Here's something a little different - an Omega f300Hz cal. 1520 - which is one of the early Omega electric "tuning fork" watches from 1970. I've never been a fan of quartz watches, although I have a couple of solar ones, but that electric/electronic short period in between hand-wound movements and full quartz is a fascinating one. The tuning fork watches - mainly devised by Bulova - still live on in the Bulova Precisionist, and their Accutron is a well-known marque.

All sorts of makes, including Hamilton and Wittnauer, had a spell at tuning forks. They function at 300Hz - which gave them the name "hummer". If you listen closely, you'll hear that the mechanism hums just somewhere in between D and Eb above middle C!

Omega f300

This little beauty was my Christmas present last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 01 Mar 15 - 09:58 AM

My Illinois RR watch is right on the money, as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 01 Mar 15 - 10:52 AM

That is awesome will, it's hard to find them working. Great watch.
Kendall wonderful that old watch is a gem

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 15 - 08:35 PM

So I go to an old antique shop. And find a mint 992b in the original box. The dealer had 350 on it and it was a deal at that price. He takes it out and drops it on the floor. Good bye balance staff. I ask him how much now. He says 150. Took it to mahlon and in 20 min he had it perfect. He said it is amazing condition. I will get you a picture Will. I don't need another cause I have 11 of them but what a deal. Of course mahlon would not let me pay him. So I will get even with him. The watch is new old stock, mint

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 06:41 AM

Dan - if you fell into the outdoor toilet, you'd come up with grapes in your mouth!

Sure you didn't just give the dealer a little mudge with your elbow...? :-)

I just got myself a new chronograph - modified ETA 7750 automatic movement - by Christopher Ward. Inspired by the RAF Typhoon fighter. It has a ceramic casing built around a titanium body. It's a C1000 Typhoon FRG4 - serial number 0115.

C1000 face

C1000 case back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 10:24 AM

Will, what do you do with a watch that's about 18 inches across?? : )

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 03:39 PM

Wear it with pride!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 08:30 PM

If ya didn't catch on, that's how your pictures come up for me. : )

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 08:30 PM

If ya didn't catch on, that's how your pictures come up for me. : )

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 08:31 PM

Let me say it again....
nah...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Sep 15 - 05:03 AM

I got your drift from the first post, fp - they're BIG photos! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 15 - 09:16 AM

That's a great watch will... I love it. I found a nice 1939 longines pocket watch size 12. Way cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Sep 15 - 12:03 PM

Longines - one of my favourite brands - well done, Dan!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 13 Sep 15 - 03:45 PM

Longines pocket watches are so dang expensive here in the states. Even the steel cased ones are pricey

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 May 20 - 12:28 AM

Now here's a watch with a history. The article is timely, too.

https://artdaily.cc/news/123790/A-timely-tale-accompanies-the-watch-belonging-to-the-Surgeon-General-who-guided-U-S--through-191