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BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...

Lox 30 Sep 10 - 08:01 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Sep 10 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,Hugo 30 Sep 10 - 08:55 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 30 Sep 10 - 11:03 AM
Arthur_itus 30 Sep 10 - 11:04 AM
theleveller 30 Sep 10 - 11:57 AM
Mr Red 30 Sep 10 - 12:05 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 30 Sep 10 - 12:25 PM
Gervase 30 Sep 10 - 12:50 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Sep 10 - 02:09 PM
Lox 30 Sep 10 - 05:11 PM
Richard Bridge 30 Sep 10 - 05:34 PM
Richard Bridge 01 Oct 10 - 03:51 AM
Lox 01 Oct 10 - 04:17 AM
Bonzo3legs 01 Oct 10 - 05:22 AM
Roger the Skiffler 01 Oct 10 - 05:25 AM
theleveller 01 Oct 10 - 07:08 AM
akenaton 01 Oct 10 - 07:53 AM
Arthur_itus 01 Oct 10 - 08:01 AM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Oct 10 - 02:14 PM
akenaton 01 Oct 10 - 02:19 PM
Paul Burke 01 Oct 10 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 01 Oct 10 - 04:25 PM
Arthur_itus 01 Oct 10 - 04:39 PM
akenaton 01 Oct 10 - 04:51 PM
Lox 01 Oct 10 - 06:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Oct 10 - 07:25 AM
Arthur_itus 02 Oct 10 - 08:10 AM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 02 Oct 10 - 08:14 AM
Arthur_itus 02 Oct 10 - 08:24 AM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 02 Oct 10 - 11:50 AM
akenaton 02 Oct 10 - 01:02 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Oct 10 - 02:40 PM
akenaton 03 Oct 10 - 12:35 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Oct 10 - 01:51 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Oct 10 - 02:47 PM
GUEST,alan whittle 03 Oct 10 - 03:29 PM
akenaton 03 Oct 10 - 04:26 PM
Lox 03 Oct 10 - 05:16 PM
akenaton 03 Oct 10 - 05:39 PM
akenaton 04 Oct 10 - 03:51 AM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Oct 10 - 07:34 AM
theleveller 04 Oct 10 - 11:05 AM
Lox 04 Oct 10 - 02:58 PM
Richard Bridge 04 Oct 10 - 03:13 PM
Arthur_itus 04 Oct 10 - 04:20 PM
akenaton 04 Oct 10 - 04:31 PM
GUEST,Ed 06 Oct 10 - 07:08 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Oct 10 - 08:39 PM

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Subject: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Lox
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 08:01 AM

I note that despite the high profile nature of the subject of the Labour Party's new leader, none of us have been keen to start a discussion about it.

What are your views?

I can't help admitting that I'm a little disppointed.

I feel that David would have been a more inspiring leader than Ed, and in addition, I am disappointed that the MP's, MEP's and Party members didn't get who they chose.

I respect the reasons for Labours association with the unions, but in this instance it seems that it has backfired.

Then I think to myself - perhaps it is good that the Unions were there to ensure a victory of substance over style ...

Would David have been a continuation of the blair years - and his mistakes?

Does Ed have enough experience - should his more seasoned brother have had his knowledge of government and foreign affairs recognized?



My gut fears that David would have had a better chance of winning the next election ...


What say you folks?


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 08:44 AM

Should look above the line as well as below - A song for Millibands

David Milliband would have had his backing for Iraq and his role in trying to cover up about torture hanging round his neck.

They are both fairly uninspiring - but then nor is Cameron and Clegg. It's a New Generation of nerds and twits across the parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: GUEST,Hugo
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 08:55 AM

Certainly the arch Blairites will be moaning the failure of David Milliband to become leader of the Labour Party.In addition the right wing press has reacted with fury at the result.It is very positive that the man chosen by Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson is not leader but Ed Milliband is not the 'Red Ed' some of the press has tried to paint him.
His policies are not radical but there is a space opening up and with a tidal wave of cuts heading our way his victory can be used to involve more layers of the Labour Party and more trade unionists in the fight against this Coalition of cutters and millionaires.
Hugo


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 11:03 AM

I started a thread about this but it got deleted - probably because I'm an habitual GUEST who got fed up with trying to retain 'cookies' (whatever they are!).

Anyway, I think that Ed Millipede looks a bit weird and as the other candidates for the leadership (David Millipede, Diane Abbott, Ed Balls etc.) all look normal, I wonder if the LP elected Ed in order to avoid a charge of being 'weirdist'?

I also pointed out, in my deleted thread, that we've now got two posh toffs in charge and a somewhat less posh toff - who looks a bit weird in opposition - I then expressed 'deep joy' at this 'wonderful' outcome.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not weirdist myself - but I just like to see hyper-PC Labour Party members froth at the mouth - that's all!


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 11:04 AM

eeeeek


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 11:57 AM

Excellent choice of leader. Time to get on with the job of putting the Condemned in their place - out of office.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 12:05 PM

well the Milli Brand is certainly to the "for" (sic)


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 12:25 PM

To answer one of Lox's questions, both Milibands have been steeped in politics from the cradle. Both studied potlitics at Oxofrd, Ed for a year at Harvard too. Their father Ralph was a leading Marxist intellectual of his generation, highly respected far beyond the community of fellow Marxists, and their mother has long been a leading force in the Jewissh Friends of Palestine. In terms of education and brainpower, both are more than capable of the biggest jobs in politics, Ed being in my view - and it's a general view I think - slightly the sharper.

The question is how much real-life experience they have. Perhaps not a lot, but I'm still optimistic that Ed will turn out to be Labour's best leader since John Smith, possibly since Wilson.

I gather the British press have dubbed him "Red Ed" (I'm watching all this from Bosnia) which is just ludicrous. I remember him at Labour Party debates in 1993-5, arguing against Labour comitting to renationalise if the Tories privatised the railways.That was in a radical constituency where such views were in a minority, but he was persuasive. He has not moved to the left since those days.

Don't overlook that a large number of MPs and party members DID vote for him, notwithstanding that his brother has had a vastly higher profile by dint of being the senior, and - until now anyway - one step ahead of David on the career path. I don't know whether it was luck or judgment that put him in an easier position than David to oppose the Iraq war, but that stance was unequestionably a factor in him winning the leadership.

Labour can look forward to a resurgence under Ed Miliband. I might even rejoin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 12:50 PM

I prefer Ed's politics to David's, but think David would have made a better leader. Like it or not, we now have a quasi-presidential system in the UK, and Ed hasn't got the skills or charisma of his brother. I watched his first speech as leader and was rather underwhelmed; it had all the hallmarks of Gordon Brown's speechwriting team and the delivery was pretty poor.
I fear that at PMQs and other parliamentary set-pieces he's going to be bested by Cameron.
The Iraq issue is something of a canard. Although he was not an MP in 2003, when the vote was taken, he has since had an armful of opportunities to take the high moral ground - yet until the leadership debate he has been very quiet on the issue, and would not even vote for the establishment of an inquiry into the war.
As Peter says, he's no 'Red Ed'; in fact his record is pretty right-wing. He has consistently voted in favour of ID cards, in favour of ministerial powers of intervention in coroners' inquests, in favour of Labour's programme of post office closures, in favour of reducing the powers of Parliament and so on. His voting record can be seen here.
Although a natural Labour supporter (and former party member), I really can't see his portrait going up on the staircase at Number 10.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 02:09 PM

I'm sure Ed will get some coaching, the same way David Cameron did. They strike me as very evenly matched, really. Both look like characters from The Night Garden.

The one who would have performed best at Question Time would have been Ed Balls - he's the only one who ever looks as if he's enjoying himself on a public platform (apart from Diane Abbott).

When it comes to winning elections I doubt if it actually makes too much difference.   After all John Major won an election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Lox
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 05:11 PM

Well I'm this far -> <- from joining the labour party myself, as I am deepy offended and worried by the coalitions butchery of the country, and by the clear long term policy of punishing the poor for the mistakes of the rich, and then giving the rich massive tax cuts after a couple of years and doing nothing to reinvest in the poorest sections of society.

Vital resources are being pulled out from where they are most needed, and those who don't need it are being given fat incentives and will soon have their incomes boosted further.

This is a deliberate and cynical redistribution of wealth from poor to rich and I can't wait for the chance to stop it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 05:34 PM

I am cautiously pleased. While Diane Abbott is wonderful she is probably unelectable. I am by no means clear that the school debating club of PM's question time is relevant. It is a showcase from a former era when teh fiction of parliamentary democracy was still alive. The first question is who will play best to the electorate and the second question is who will do something once in (and if in) to restore democracy in place of the dictatorship of the majority.

Bear in mind that we have probably already tipped, like Italy, into the abyss of electoral history - today the whole country is a rotten borough controlled by the concentration of press power. If we don't fix that (in the same way that if the US does not fix its oligocracy) we are totally stuffed as a democracy, and the best we can hope for is a benevolent dictator - in which respect I vastly prefer Miss Piggy to the dirty Digger. At least if you have heredity determining rulership there is a chance of benevolence.   The stinking rich are by definition sociopaths. That is how they got rich.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 03:51 AM

This was discussed on Question Time last night, the 30th September 2010. Amongst other things the conservatives and indistinguishable lib-dems there were quite firm that the facts that Ed was a Jewish atheist unmarried father and left of centre would not facilitate their attacks on the Labour Party and that the only thing that mattered was that he was left of centre, which of course they abhor.

The lunatic right (those named above) were taking comfort from the IMF approval of the Osborne cuts and despite a hint from a member of the audience no-one pointed out that the IMF were a bunch of bankers and capitalists so it was hardly surprising that the IMF were intensely satisfied about money being given to bankers and capitalists but taken from the working classes and those unable to work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Lox
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:17 AM

Indeed Richard ...

... what a coincidence that a group of bankers and capitalsts would support policy that took money from poor people to give to bankers and capitalists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 05:22 AM

But they are not in power thank goodness, nor likely to be for a long time!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 05:25 AM

Too early to judge. However, anyone endorsed by both Tony Benn & Roy Hattersley should have a chance of keeping the party united.
I hope for more action and less "message" (and some real joined-up government where resources are provided for the consequences of policies). Still disappointed there's no commitment to scrapping Trident.
RtS
(very OLD Labour)


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 07:08 AM

Like Richard, I'm cautiously optimistic. Ed may not be as experienced as his broither but he'll have a few months in opposition to find his feet before the Unholy Alliance comes tumbling down (the cracks are already appearing) and we have another election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 07:53 AM

"Diane Abbott is wonderful"...Yes, a wonderful example of left hypocrisy.

Mr Ed seems a nice fellow....fratricide being just another survival technique used by politicians.
Wonder if he has any intention of informing the electorate of how they are being robbed?
Somehow I doubt it ....once he learns the ropes, he will become just another lying "evolutionist"


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 08:01 AM

Well I hope he doesn't gob all over everybody like Hattersley RtS :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HYGlNzzq2o


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 02:14 PM

I imagine there will be a lot of younger brothers like me who will be feeling distinctly miffed at this assumption that we are all supposed to step back and give precedence to our older brothers throughout our lives or be found guilty of fratricide or treachery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 02:19 PM

For an expert in irony Mr McGrath...................


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 03:52 PM

Here is my reaction to the election of Miliband--









.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:25 PM

Paul Burke - I'll second that. If and when the bastard gets into power he'll forget all about us, and his "Labour Principles", and start working his balls off for Big Business.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:39 PM

Don't think Ed will like that Shimrod :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:51 PM

We shall all be working our balls off for the rest of our lives for Big Business.

Isn't it about time that those of us in possession of balls did something to ensure they remain in the scrotum?


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Lox
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 06:59 PM

Did you say he'd start wanking ed Balls off for big business?


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 07:25 AM

Ooh, what naughty little boys you are saying things like that! How daring!


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:10 AM

It's a good job Ed Balls chritian name isn't Balu

I'll get me jock strap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:14 AM

sounds like a transistor radio circa 1958

I used to get Hilversum and the American Forces Network on the Ed Milliband.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:24 AM

LOL How u doing Al?


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 11:50 AM

well i reconciled myself to never being part of the tradition - still writing though. Heres the wayne rooney song:-
http://www.myspace.com/folksingerbigal

I look in mudcat most days to see if someone I know has died, but I won't risk another actual cyber conversation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 01:02 PM

Hello Al, good to see you back.

I thought yu had just decided to pack in the Mudcat for a while, didn't realise there had been any nasty stuff.

Some idiot has been sending out abusive PM's lately, I advise folks to just ignore them.
Hope you come back soon and put in your tuppenceworth again...Ake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labours new Millibrand ... reactions ...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 02:40 PM

Surely that was the 49 metre band?

Come to think of it, why not call a band that and see how many still remember 49.26 metres in the short wave band?


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 12:35 PM

They are about to crush the poorest under their heel, just as they robbed the middle class.....and the left are going to sit and watch it happen...some are even going to enjoy watching it happen.

There will be no jobs to force the young university leavers and over 50's to do....this country has become uncompetitive and you all know what that means under this system.

Three quarters of the population think people on benefits should be living in poverty.
These measures are popular and the left is ineffective.
We all (except the underclass) have something to lose by rocking the boat,so the boat will not get rocked
Maybe we will come to enjoy living under a facist regime

I dont know how the "liberal" left sleep at night.....collaborators


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:51 PM

So what's to do? Screaming and shouting doesn't change things if "three quarters of the population" are the enemy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 02:47 PM

I doubt ake's stats but the irony is that the IDS "reform" of benefits is scheduled to take until 2014 and to raise the benefits bill. Che?

Even more ironic, although the devil will be in the detail, it may actually increase benefits, at least in some cases.

I suspect however that providing a universal benefit with clawback through the tax system will make the taxman's life so complicated that the already crippled attempts to recover evaded and collect avoided tax will fade even more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:29 PM

Ed Milliband is a Bastard

Ed Milliband is a bastard
We call him Ed the Red
And if he gets elected
You'll wish that you were dead.
He has bad breath and dandruff
His farts are loud and smelly
He is much more objectionable
Than he looks on telly
But you can read the sorry facts
Behind Ed's dismal tale
Its there with all the gossip
In tomorrow's Daily Mail

Ed Milliband is a stinker
lets stick to all the facts
He looks like he's a paedo
And he's bound to charge more tax
He'll give back all the loot Brave Maggie won
From all those nasty frogs
He'll build luxury homes and give out cash
To all the scrounging wogs
But more will be revealed my friends
Next week in The mail, you'll see
Moreover we will give away
A brand new DVD

Ed Milliband is a stinker
He's run by Moscow central
We should hang, draw and quarter him
And then burn his entrails
Theres rumours about his drinking
the parties and the drugs
And that isn't his real hair, you know
he has to wear a rug
We've seen the picture of Stalin
That every night he kisses
Not to mention the heroes graves
On which regularly pisses
But theres more revelations
so watch now without fail
All the front page news my friend
In next years Daily Mail.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 04:26 PM

Interesting article in today's Sunday Times by AA Gill.

Mr Gill seems to have taken quite a shine to the "Union Men".

Sorry I cant give a link, as I am not in registered on their website.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: Lox
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 05:16 PM

Alan Whittle,

Excellent! Love it!

I may have to nick it ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 05:39 PM

Richard... Yougov 1/10/10
            "If people capable of work refuse jobs, should their benefits be cut"

Yes.............82%
No...............8%
Dont know.......10%


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 03:51 AM

Mr McGrath....An alarm clock?

They are attempting to reset a system which has failed and will continue to fail....unless you can come up with some means of stimulating growth in the economy?

Those who are to be most severely punished are the poorest, whos living standards are to be driven down.
The few who get jobs will be on the lowest pay rate possible.

Richard is correct the new system of employment/benefits will be unworkable...and they know it, but by that time their power will be much increased by the new legislation.

It is the duty of the left to defend the interests of the underpriviliged......by the horrible truth is that inside most lefties is a little conservative who keeps saying look after your own interests first!

As I said above, we all have a little to lose with the demise of this system.....a little bundle of stuff which keeps us just above the underclass.
That is why we see left hypocrisy and why a free and happy society will never evolve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 07:34 AM

"If people capable of work refuse jobs, should their benefits be cut?"

"Three quarters of the population think people on benefits should be living in poverty."


Agreeing with that question does not imply agreeing with the second.

It is perfectly reasonable to think that where suitable work is available which we are capable of doing, we should take it up rather than living on benefits, and that a fully adequate level of benefits should be paid whenever this is not so. And that the minimum wage should be at a level which amounted to a living wage,


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:05 AM

Interesting that the Condems are so bullish about getting people back into work when they are cutting so many jobs. So the jobs are coming from where, exactly?


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: Lox
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 02:58 PM

I notice that a mud elf has corrected the spelling of the thread title ...

I had called it "labours new milibrand"

This was a deliberate play on words combining the name "miliband" with the idea of labour being rebranded ...

... as in the new labour brand ...

or in this case mili-brand.


I think mudcatters are clever enough to know what the subject matter is likely to be despite my weak spelling ... and some mey even get the joke, so if you could be dears and switch it back again that would be most appreciated ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 03:13 PM

I assumed that the "milli" part was an ambiguous reference to a crawling creature - or possibly a small unit of measurement - and so with the "brand" bit, quite clever.

Unlike ake who seems to have no idea at all of a fundamental difference in meaning. It's a shame because I aree with him that capitalism and the doctrines of greed generally need to be supplanted along with the "born to rule" arrogance of Cameron and Clegg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 04:20 PM

Sometimes the mud elfs are like Microsoft Word - too clever for the general punter. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 04:31 PM

"Unlike ake who seems to have no idea at all of a fundamental difference in meaning."???.....Please explain!


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 07:08 AM

An open question to 'theleveller'

What would you do?


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Subject: RE: BS: Labour's new Miliband ... reactions ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 08:39 PM

"Ed"? Not the milliman himself surely...


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