BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:05 AM

Certainly I agree about the status of NATO Songwronger.
Hopefully, with the coming of Scottish Independence, we in Scotland will have the guts to withdraw from its shadow.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 02:28 AM

Songwriter

What complete and utter tripe.

So Libyan dissidents met and afirmed their desire to overthrow Gaddafi - WOW, what a revelation - about as interesting and amazing as the headline - "Dog bites Man"

The fact that this meeting took place in London in 2005 is neither here nor there. Londinistan has been known for years to be a place of refuge for dissidents from Islamic countries.

"On 6 August, all the members of SEAL commando 6 perished in the crash of their helicopter...."

All members?? Oh no they did not - you should take a good look at the organisation of the Unit you are talking about and their tasking.

The members assigned to SEAL 6 who took part in the raid on Abbottabad all came from their base in the USA where they had trained for months on a mock up of the compound they were about to attack. Where did they go after the raid? Abbottabad to Afghanistan - Afghanistan to a USN Aircraft Carrier in the Arabian Sea - USN Aircraft carrier to the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Songwronger
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 11:18 PM

A good article about how al Qeada has been put in charge of Libya. Written by a French reporter NATO has been threatening to kill:

http://12160.info/forum/topics/how-al-qaeda-men-came-to-power-in-libya-by-thierry-meyssan-of

How Al Qaeda men came to power in Libya

by Thierry Meyssan

...On 26 June 2005, Western intelligence agencies held a meeting in London of Libyan dissidents. They constituted the "National Conference of the Libyan opposition", bringing together three Islamic factions: the Muslim Brothers, the Senoussi Brotherhood and the LIFG. Their manifesto set forth three objectives:
*to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi;
*to exercise power for one year (under the name "National Transition Council");
*to restore the constitutional monarchy to its 1951 form and make Islam the state religion....

...On 17 February 2011, "National Libyan Opposition Conference" organized a "day of anger" in Benghazi, which sparked the beginning of the war....

...On 1 May 2011, Barack Obama announced that, in Abbottabad (Pakistan), the US Navy's SEAL Team Six had taken out Osama bin Laden, about whom no reliable news had been heard for almost 10 years. The announcement padlocked the Al-Qaeda file and enabled the revamping of the jihadists into the renewed allies of the United States as in the good old days of the Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya and Kosovo wars [7] On 6 August, all the members of SEAL commando 6 perished in the crash of their helicopter....

-------

This is just another coup brought to you by the CIA and MI-6, using al Qeada and NATO to do the blood work. But this coup stands a good chance of failing. NATO has outlived its mission. It is now an invading army of terrorists. Time to disband it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:08 PM

We are getting to that grim phase in the revolution where atrocities are being documented on both sides by Amnesty International. I applaud the efforts by the NTC leadership to seek reconciliation with as many Gadhafi supporters as possible, with the exception of the internationally identified criminals.

I am also impressed that the Rebels have resisted storming into the remaining Gadhafi strongholds, guns blazing. They could do that but instead they are urging the civilians to flee for another two days.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:56 AM

"residing in Libya".    Actually, Ake, that's not necessary. It is however necessary to read something and not just listen constantly to your own echo-chamber.   You ought to try it sometime.

I read constantly anything I can see on the Libyan situation--from all perspectives.    So I learn to distinguish news from rumor.   Again, you might try it.

I also note you have not contradicted my assertion that Gaddafi, like Hitler, considered himself the embodiment of the country, saw his opponents as vermin and traitors, and, to the best of his ability taught Libyans to feel the same.

Perhaps you haven't contradicted it because it's obviously true.

But now the majority of the country has had enough of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:45 AM

There you go again, Ake, more from your depth of boundless ignorance and gloom.    There are Islamists in Libya,    There are also many Libyans who want the freedom to be able to express themselves--for the first time in 40 years.   Not to be chained to Sharia law in all things. Which, you note, has not even happened in Iraq, where it was also predicted.

What's more, Libyan money from oil can finance an excellent educational system, among other benefits to the country.   And the longer a pluralistic education system is in effect, the less likely Sharia law will rule.

Only a clueless--and bitter?---armchair socialist would predict that all Libyans will willingly submit to an Islamist theocracy.   

Added to which, as I may possibly have noted before, the West has enough threats of terrorism without bankrolling another.   Which is in fact your proposal.

Don't worry, we don't expect you to admit that you have been wrong from the start in opposing the West's part in the Libyan struggle.

I wonder to what extent your stubborn opposition is based on the fact that some benefit is likely to accrue to the UK as led by Cameron.   The UK is likely to get the best oil contracts, after France.   Not a giveaway, but a reward getting in early and staying the course--despite constant pathetic whining from the Left--including your good self?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:16 AM

"Mustafa Abdul Jalil outlined his plans to create a modern democratic state based on "moderate Islam" to thousands of flag-waving supporters in the newly renamed Martyrs' Square."

"In his first speech since moving to the capital from the NTC stronghold of Benghazi, Mr Jalil told some 10,000 supporters to avoid retribution attacks, adding that Libya's new leaders would not accept any extremist ideology.

The speech was short, in contrast with Col Gaddafi's infamously long public addresses. The broad theme was reconciliation. Mr Jalil urged both ordinary Libyans and his fighters to comply with the law and not to take matters into their own hands. He reminded people that not everyone who worked for the Gaddafi regime should be treated with contempt.

Religion is a key issue in conservative Libya. He said the NTC would not accept extreme right- or left-wing ideologies. There have been some calls for secularism from a minority in Benghazi and some technocrats.

The speech appeared to go down well with the thousands of Libyans who had gathered in Martyrs' Square. He was frequently interrupted by applause, whistling and women cheering."

As soon as it ended, there was a barrage of celebratory gunfire, not just in central Tripoli but also in the east of the city. It seemed to reach out to all Libyans and also foreign parties who had helped during the conflict.

"We are a Muslim nation, with a moderate Islam, and we will maintain that. You are with us and support us - you are our weapon against whoever tries to hijack the revolution," he said.

BBC

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:00 AM

And tell me Ron how long have YOU been residing in Libya?

You think the Col was a murderous totalitarian, just wait till the Islamists start laying down Sharia Law in exchange for oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:50 AM

Ake-

"quite wrong".    Sorry, as usual, you are the one off base.    He has promised terrorism to the West. Clueless armchair socialists --like your good self?---would make it easy for him. And he has every incentive--and money--to do so if you had your wish and he were reinstated.

Further, Gaddafi's main parallels with Hitler have been clear for months,    Both are totalitarians, who sought to be seen as the embodiment of the country, teach their followers to feel the same, and saw their opponents as scum and traitors.   Gaddafi of course still does. At some point you should actually open a book rather than continue to speak from your fathomless ignorance.

And you should count yourself lucky you did not live in Libya under him--you would have been in prison long since.

So, please tell us, as I said: how long have you had this devotion to murderous totalitarians?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:38 AM

Amnesty International reporting 'ruthless and deadly' human rights abuses on both sides of the conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 08:21 AM

Reuters reporting that Gaddafi thugs using civilians as human shields in Bani Walid.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 04:55 AM

"A pro-Gaddafi radio station in Bani Walid is urging residents to rise up against the revolutionaries, promising "the prettiest girls" in town as a reward."

Al Jazeera

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 03:45 AM

Well said indeed Frank.

Ron ....To equate Col Gadaffi's Lybia with Hitlers "Democratically elected" govt in Germany is quite wrong.

"Democratic" Germany was a real military threat to the UK and the rest of Europe....whereas The Col's dictatorship was not, indeed he appeared to be working very closely with our security services.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:12 AM

Abdelhakim Belhadj, commander of the Libyan rebel army, is now the military governor of Tripoli.

Tripoli was a burgeoning city of 2 million, about to become a Mediterranean vacation spot. Now it's under the control of a certifiable madman. Look up his history if you want to be nauseated.

Kadafi had the Muslim-on-black violence under control and his nation was about to become first-world. NATO couldn't allow that, so the country's been turned over to barbarians and looters. A fine way for Obama to celebrate the tenth anniversary of September 11, to have al Qeada lynching blacks in a country he "liberated."

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 11:17 PM

Interesting, Ake, that you predict an Islamist regime--on no evidence in Libya.

And that you're blithely willing to accept whatever Gaddafi had in mind for "the rats".

By your logic, we never should have bombed Germany in WW II, since our fighting that regime resulted in lots of deaths. And that leader also described his domestic opponents as "rats" and traitors--just like Gaddafi does.

And it seems you would have been fine with that regime also--after all, it was "socialist"=--the leader even told us over and over his was a National Socialist government.

So how long have you had this devotion to vicious dictators?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 04:03 AM

Well Charley you could apply that line of thinking to the "intended" massacre of civilians in Benghazi, which we used to say was the reason for our involvement in the first place?

If the Col wanted to put an end to the insurgency, I suppose some civilians may have perished, but our involvement ensured that perhaps 100, 000 will die.

To install an Islamist regime.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:10 PM

It's true that NATO has made some recent bombing runs after the Rebels pulled back. Hopefully they have a good idea of what they're targeting. The Gadhafi loyalists should bear some responsibility, don't you think, Akenaton, for the inevitable civilian casualties. Or do you think their hands are clean?

Laying siege to these towns for another week or so might be an option but there would also be civilian suffering. It just doesn't make sense, I think, to give the Gadhafi loyalists more time to brutalize their "human shields."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 01:03 PM

In addition to your other sterling qualities, Ake, your reading skills appear rather abysmal.   I just finished pointing out how Gaddafi's forces are preventing civilians, many of whom are desperate to leave the besieged town, from doing so.   Can't understand how you have managed to miss the post just before yours.

It looks like we can make this a musical thread after all---W.S. Gilbert spoke quite directly to the attitude of Muammar's defenders:


"The idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone
Every century but this and each country but his own"


And remember the theme of his little ditty.   True here in spades.

Actually Muammar's fans don't praise every country but their own--they whine constantly about the entire West.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 11:40 AM

Nato bombing the towns which support the Col.....towns containing thousands of civilians......hypocrits!

Lets here it for the civilians now you "democrats"

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:27 AM

More inconvenient truths for those who still idolize dear Muammar:

NATO has always been concerned about civilian casualties.   And Muammar has exploited this by doing such things as putting children on tanks, as I noted earlier.

And here's more:    Reuters, 10 Sept 2011:   "Families trickled out of Bani Walid before the fighting intensified".

A Reuters reporter spoke to one of the families;   "his veiled wife, Oum Abdurahman, leaned out of the window, holding her baby son".    She said:   "there's no food, no power, no water. Many people want to leave but have no fuel for their cars and Gaddafi forces are preventing people from leaving.   They fire in the air to terrorize people.   Today we managed to leave."

But this can't be true, can it Ake?    Your man Muammar and his supporters would never try to actually maximize civilian casualties, now would they?

Time for you to at long last take off your blinders.



As I said, "debating" with leftists is shooting fish in a barrel. Perhaps it's because they don't even bother to think.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 09:35 AM

Yes, Akenaton, some civilians will be killed or injured in "liberating" this town. It's called war.

I also note that more bodies are being uncovered of "Rebels" executed by Gadhafi's forces before they fled from Tripoli and surrounding towns. Perhaps, you'd like to do a body count and assess what the balance is?

The Gadhafi forces were urged to surrender in Bani Walid (and in other towns), and the townspeople who urged surrender were typically run out of town.

And NATO is being appropriately caution about further bombing, providing aerial surveillance instead.

Have a nice day.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 07:05 AM

The civilians are being liberated from being held hostage by Gaddafi's thugs by the freedom fighters.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 03:43 AM

What about the civilians Charley?    Where is NATO when they are needed?

Oh yes, they are not real civilians, they dont believe the right things.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 10:47 PM

Here's a bit of an update with regard to the end-game(Al Jazeera):

Fighters belonging to the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) say they have entered the loyalist stronghold of Bani Walid, with street fighting reported to be taking place in the town, 150km southeast of the capital Tripoli.

The news came just hours after Muammar Gaddafi's loyalists fired Grad rocket barrages at the fighters besieging Bani Walid and Sirte, a coastal city also under the deposed leader's control.

Abdullah Kenshil, the former rebels' chief negotiator, said the former rebels were fighting gunmen positioned in houses in the town of Bani Walid and the hills that overlooked it. "They are inside the city. They are fighting with snipers....They forced this on us and it was in self-defence."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 10:42 PM

So, Ake, Western governments "realized they were about to be exposed" so decided to topple Gaddafi.

Well, that's a different theory, anyway. Nobody can accuse you of lack of imagination.

Too bad about the lack of sense, logic, evidence etc. And for some reason you left out the inconvenient element that huge numbers of his own people wanted to get rid of him--and can hardly wait til he is captured and has to account for his cruel and kleptocratic regime.

But I suppose we can't have everything.

Logic, evidence, etc. never was the strong suit of the pro-Gaddafi posters.

And absurd theories are always more fun for them, it seems, than coming to terms with the fact that Muammar never was the socialist model of your dreams.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 07:36 AM

"Rebel officials have said for months that they would try to avoid the mistakes made in Iraq after Saddam Hussein was overthrown, when United States officials disbanded the military and barred all former members of the ruling Baath Party - many of Iraq's most experienced professionals - from working in any public-sector job.

Instead, the Libyan rebels said, they will seek retribution, in a courtroom, against only the most notorious Qaddafi government officials, those who oversaw torture or killings, egregiously enriched themselves or, in the case of the captured television host Hala Misrati, led the propaganda war on state television.

The rebel leaders pledged to welcome back most of the bureaucrats and other midlevel functionaries, and so far, former senior officials of Colonel Qaddafi's government say the provisional government appears to be keeping its word. To underscore that point, the rebel leadership held a ceremony on Tuesday to hand control of a major natural gas plant to the same manager who was responsible for its security under Colonel Qaddafi.

"There are very few instances of revenge," said Abdulmajeed el-Dursi, the former chief of the Qaddafi-era foreign media operation, sipping coffee at a cafe full of rebels and talking about opening a media services company.

"It is legitimate, all these things they are doing - freedom of the press, the rule of law," Mr. Dursi added. "We always thought it was the right thing to do."

Officials at the rebels' detention centers around the city say they have sent scores of Colonel Qaddafi's former soldiers and supporters back to their homes after they have turned in their weapons, and even some of the former soldiers now insist that they are revolutionaries at heart."

www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/world/africa/08tripoli.html

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 10:18 PM

Problem is the poster in question was querying why we used military force in Libya, but would not in Zimbabwe.    As I said, the use of a white military force in Zimbabwe might just possibly not be applauded by black Africa.

Unless, as Charley pointed out, you can get a multinational black African force to sanction it.

Good luck on that.

As the Good Soldier should know if he thought more than 2 seconds about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 05:53 PM

Oh, I'd agree that "zimbabwe" is also a case for intervention and attempts have been made to do that without using armed force. However, the Organization of African Unity needs to be on board and they are reluctant to do so. Not one of the neighboring countries is willing to take a lead role.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 01:26 PM

At a news conference in Tripoli, the recently arrived Mahmoud Jibril, NTC executive committee chairman, said:

    "What Libyans have accomplished is an unprecedented achievement in recent history. However, our biggest challenges are still ahead of us. The first challenge is to win against ourselves. The second challenge is the ability to forgive and to reconcile and look for the future."

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 12:23 PM

"Debating" with leftists is shooting fish in a barrel.


"interfrere (sic) in zimbabwe (sic)"

Absolutely, that's bound to be a big hit in Africa--a white military force interfering in a black African country.

Ever heard of Rhodesia?    Know what it's called these days?

Again the old question:   are you leftists capable of thinking at all?

To put it gently:   perhaps you should go back to folk music and leave international relations to those who believe in using their heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 09:44 AM

I'm still mulling over the possibilities of a screen play based on the fleeing armored column of Gadhafi loyalists sinking into the sands of the Niger desert. Where is Shakespeare when we need him? Where are Bertolt Brecht and Kurt Weill?

Oh, well, back to CNN and Al Jazeera.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 08:11 AM

Again from Nicholas Kristof:

"What's particularly impressive is the paucity of revenge killings and
looting in Tripoli, the capital. There have been a few incidents in
which rebel soldiers apparently executed prisoners, and black Africans
have been treated abysmally (they are accused of being mercenaries for
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi). But the Libyans who served in that hated
regime mostly have not been molested.

I saw many Libyans
fleeing for Tunisia, and, presumably, many of them were Gaddafi
loyalists. But rebels did not hinder them at checkpoints or pilfer their
belongings. And, as far as I could tell, the homes and luxury vehicles
the loyalists left behind have been mostly untouched by neighbors and
rebels alike.

In addition, I went through dozens of armed
rebel checkpoints and was never once asked for a "baksheesh," meaning
bribe or gift.



Finding hope in Libya - an eyewitness account"




by NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 08:10 AM

Hope for a moderate future in Libya:

"What we know of the top rebel leadership is also reasonably encouraging.
Mahmoud Jibril, the acting prime minister of the rebels' Transitional
National Council, earned his doctorate from the University of Pittsburgh
and taught there, too. As for Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, the acting chairman
of the council, he is a former justice minister who challenged Colonel
Qaddafi by calling for the release of political prisoners. Ali Tarhouni,
the finance minister, is a former economist at the University of
Washington.

Some Americans have fretted that Islamic
extremists will take over Libya, but very few of the rebel leaders have
been associated with Islamic fundamentalism. One exception is Abdel
Hakim Belhaj, a military commander in Tripoli, who says he was tortured
by the CIA in 2004. Yet he told my Times colleague Rod Nordland that all
is forgiven and that he appreciates the American role in the Libyan
revolution.

Frankly, any representative Libyan government
needs to include fundamentalists like Mr. Belhaj, who were particularly
brave in standing up to the Gaddafi regime. The mood in Libya is both
pro-Islam and pro-Western."

Nicholas Kristof
NY Times

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 02:48 AM

Ron....It is a tangled web, and not as simple as you suppose.

Western nations, especially the UK, were up to their necks in supporting The Col in his battle agaianst Islamic extremists.....In return for this support they were granted some rights over Libyan Oil.    Rights to help in developement and rights to purchase.

Their support included security information on dissidents in the West and the supply of suspects for "rendition" and torture.

After the "Arab Spring" uprisings in Egypt etc, the British and French governments realised that they were about to be exposed and took the view that they would assist in the removal of Gadaffi in an attemped to ingratiate themselves with the new regime and retain the "rights" they so badly need.

Unfortunately this was rather shortsighted, as we now have the spectre of Islamism all over the area and in all probability these "rights" will be used by the Islamists as bargaining chips in the future.

Basically, we are fucked!

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:55 PM

That was of course in response to "35%" etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:54 PM

Thank you, Mr. Broken Record.

For the n'th time, Gaddafi was always more than willing to sell Libya's oil.

So your argument, yet again, is bankrupt.

What a surprise.

Perhaps you'd like to return to folk music.   The chances are rather good you know more about that than about foreign policy.    That is, more than zero.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:51 PM

That Gadhafi is trapped may be more wistful thinking on the part of the Rebels, or disinformation, or there may be some truth to their belief (from Al Jazeera):

Libyan fighters are claiming to have surrounded Muammar Gaddafi within a 60km radius and insist it is matter of time before the toppled leader is captured or killed.

Anis Sharif, a spokesman for Tripoli's new military council, however would not say where exactly Gaddafi had been found.

But amid the continuing hunt for the fugitive leader and his sons, he said Gaddafi had been tracked using high technology and human intelligence. "He can't get out," he said on Wednesday.

Gaddafi, who was removed from power in August after an uprising against his rule, is believed to be travelling in a convoy of about 10 cars and may be using a tent as shelter, Hisham Buhagiar, who is co-ordinating the National Transitional Council's [NTC] efforts to find the former Libyan leader, said.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 12:20 PM

France will now be able to get 35 per cent of libyas oil, what a surprise..COULD THIS REALLY BE WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT, the west tolerated gaddaffi for 40 years, the west does not go in and interfrere in zimbabwe, why.. no oil

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 09:07 AM

Gaddafi is surrounded, says the new Council.    40 mile radius.   They would not say where in Libya he is, but it is in Libya.    Source:   AP 7 Sept 2011.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 08:17 PM

Having been an avid reader of "Spy vrs. Spy" in Mad Magazine, I'm beginning to wonder if the CIA/MI-6 aren't executing a sting operation in the Niger.

As the Gadhafi loyalists cross the border, they're harvested by the CIA Niger agents, along with their swag, and "encouraged" to call their friends still in Libya to join the party.

I'm probably giving the CIA/MI-6 too much credit.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 05:48 PM

Charley, this article from Reuters gives more insider, behind the scenes details of the planning and execution of Operation Mermaid Dawn, well worth a read: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/06/us-libya-endgame-idUSTRE7853C520110906

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 08:57 AM

Here's another "hat trick" being exercised by Gadhafi. A large armored convoy of military vehicles has been reported as having crossed into Niger (Al Jazeera): click here for update!

"Monday's convoy included officers from Libya's southern army battalions and pro-Gaddafi Tuareg fighters, and likely crossed from Libya into Algeria before entering Niger, the sources said."

It's unclear whether Gadhafi or his sons are in this convoy but it is currently being escorted through the country by Niger army units toward the border of "Burkina Faso, a landlocked West African state which has offered Gaddafi and his family asylum."

The remaining question: who is making and producing the blockbuster film?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 04:13 PM

No, things are never what they seem, and our biggest danger is in the construction of an Islamist axis in the middle East and North Africa.In Libya they are already positioning themselves.

Our murderous bastards are not THAT stupid.

I never said that the Col was a perfect leader of his people, just slightly better than the others.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 04:07 PM

Well now, THIS is a surprising turn of events. MY preface to this is that BP started all this shite (as some of you know from reading my posts) because of their problems in the Gulf Oil Spill and the fact that Quackdaffy wouldn't let them renegotiate the contract so they made a deal elsewhere to usurp Quackdaffy and... you know.

BUT, this really floors me... kinda made me smile a tad even tho maybe it it NOT good...

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Libya's new leadership has evidence Muammar Gaddafi bought arms from companies in China and Western countries in defiance of U.N. sanctions and now plans legal and diplomatic action, a military spokesman said in Tripoli on Monday.

"We'll be going through legal channels, through international courts, as well as the United Nations itself," Abdul Rahman Busin told Reuters. "Either to prosecute them or to come to a diplomatic understanding."

He did not specify further what action might be taken against firms, individuals or states involved in any smuggling.

"We have gathered evidence from many sources, including the main documents that were gathered here in Tripoli, that point the finger at several countries that had been supplying Gaddafi with weapons and arms, as well as intelligence officers," he said.

"They had their own mercenaries who were helping them, but whether the mercenaries were directly linked to governments or (were) private individuals is still unclear," Busin added.

Earlier on Monday, China responded to the publication by a newspaper of documents that appeared to show Chinese state firms offered Gaddafi weaponry by confirming some staff had met Libyan envoys in July but without the government's knowledge.

"We've been gathering information for months now," Busin said. He declined to name the nationalities of those suspected of trying to supply Gaddafi but confirmed some were Chinese and that the proposed route for imports passed through Algeria.

Asked if Westerners also offered arms, he said they did.

It was unclear whether any Chinese weapons reached Libya.

Busin said: "The documentation ... specified the quantities, amounts, types and the route for it to come in, which was through Algeria.

"The total price of the actual order was near $200 million," he added, saying it included arms that are familiar from the Libyan war, including ammunition, pistols, automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, mortar rounds and rockets.

"It was a very long list," he said.

"NO DISCRIMINATION"

Asked which firms were involved in selling weapons to Gaddafi, he said he did not know but believed it would be possible to identify them: "We don't actually have a list of companies. But there are only so many companies in the world that produce arms still. That narrows it down quite a lot."

A key issue for China and other countries which did not join the Western-led drive to support the uprising in Libya is whether the new authorities may penalise them in the awarding of oil and reconstruction contracts.

Asked whether revelations of arms sales could cost any countries deals, Busin said that would be for others to say.

Other officials have said that Libya's new authorities would work with any governments which now supported them.

Aref el-Nayed, a senior NTC official and director of a unit known as the Libyan Stabilisation Team, told Reuters on Monday that this would remain the policy:

"Free Libya is keen on great relations with all of humanity," he said. "Different countries had different attitudes towards the Gaddafi regime. The NTC will not be discriminatory because of this."

He added: "China is a very important member of the international community and we look forward to great relations with China and we look forward to great relations with Russia and all other countries. What is important is that all countries have now entered this consensus (supporting the NTC) and it is from this baseline that we will build our relations."

(Writing by Alastair Macdonald; editing by Myra MacDonald)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 03:51 PM

akenaton-

Well, I guess that's your graceful way of conceding he wasn't the most progressive despot in the world. I'll accept that.

So when should we release our "murderous bastards" to do their bloody work? Would you suggest Syria?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 03:41 PM

I dont care about Gadaffi and his regime Charley, its what our "murderous bastards" are up to that bothers me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 10:53 AM

akenaton-

Gadhafi played everyone to his benefit, until the end-game. I would think that you'd get that.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM

Well Ake, maybe if your self titled Col. was not such a bloodthirsty, murderous, thieving bastard his people may not have felt compelled to get rid of him. These despots never do learn much from history do they.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 03:11 AM

Now the truth of our involvement is beginning to surface, both the US and the UK were assisting the Col in supressing Islamism in Libya...rendition, torture etc.

They quickly sussed which way the wind was blowing after Moubarik fell in Egypt and jumped ship, hoping to curry favour with the new Islamist controlled regime, to safeguard oil rights...So much for altruism!!....It wont work, these people used us against their enemy Col Gadaffi and soon we will be booted out.

What a shower of fucking simpletons!
As I said earlier, we hae been completely outflanked

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 08:13 AM

Charley, take a look at this spellbinding account from one of Gaddafi's "nuns", one of his cadre of female attendants cum bodyguards as she unburdens herself after 30 years of servitude to him: http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/2MRUQmTBXeld/