Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 08:38 AM

Tell me, Chillybean - what music will you perform/and or be listening to when you get old?

And when will you get old? What will be the defining age when, as Roger Daltry said, you hope you die before you get to it?

The important thing is not to rage against spurious folk awards or age or folk clubs, but to get out, make your own music, start your own club, have fun, do your own thing. And if you get irritated by clubs or festivals or attitudes, then find a decent open session, singaround or open mic - like the two or three I attend each month - which have a completely wide mixture of ages and musical styles from teens to old-timers and from trad tunes to jazz and blues.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: matt milton
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 08:43 AM

"I think publishing the "long list" of nominations would go a long way to mitigating some of the concerns around nepotism.

I think being clear about the profile of the judges would also help (I'm not saying name them all!). I think it has been stated that none of the panelists are artists themselves....... this is clearly not true, so it shouldn't be stated!"

Yep. And, quite apart from anything else, publishing all that would win the organisers of the Folk Awards even more free publicity for their event.

I can't be the only person who's noticed an irony here: that all this hoo-hah about the awards has done a much, much better job of garnering publicity for the awards than whoever it is that is paid to do their Marketing & Publicity.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 08:51 AM

really is the wrong sort of publicity. The BBC wont like having their probity questioned. I don't think anybody does.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 09:00 AM

That's fine Matt. The more publicity the better..... I think the awards are a good thing (as I stated), surely we're allowed to ask for improvements though?

A little more transparency would go along way to shutting up the naysayers.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 09:00 AM

Post above was me.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Vic Smith
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 09:06 AM

Silas - re-reading your post, I can see that I have misinterpreted it, so I apologise for that. You were not being as exclusive as my first reading of your post made you seem to be.

I would, however, state that if you are not welcoming to what you call 'World Music (whatever that is)' then you are missing out in a big way.

Folk song, traditional song, does not end at the Straits of Dover. Again, quoting the example of the club that I run, in the last few years we have had guest performers on tour in this country from Zimbabwe, Hungary, The Gambia, Roumania, Sierra Leone, Breton-speaking groups and French- and Spanish-speaking groups from the North American minority language areas of Louisiana, Quebec and New Mexico. These nights when our locals have tried to present the best of our culture against the musical riches that our foreign guests have brought with them have been amongst the most rewarding of all our presentations.
***************
Last Thursday we had an American with an Appalchian background as guest. I don't know how old Kate Lissauer is, but young enough to be my daughter if not my granddaughter. I started off the evening with Jeannie Robertson's version of The Gypsy Laddies which I have always thought of from the gypsies' point of view because of my long enthusiasm for Scots Travellers and their culture. I see it as a song that just gives one example of the cruel treatment of this outcast minority. Then Kate got up and said, "I'm going to sing a different version of the song that Vic sung earlier; this is from my area and is called Black Jack Davy, For me, this song is about a woman having a mid-life crisis. We've all met people who seem to have a settled, happy life, then they go off the rails with an impossible relationship that cannot work, haven't we?"
Brilliant! Fascinating! For me this was a new insight into a song that I have sung for decades; just what I want to get from a folk club evening.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: matt milton
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 09:59 AM

"The BBC wont like having their probity questioned. I don't think anybody does."

oo-er!

Normally I'd agree, but in the case of this particular awards ceremony, one which gives Don McLean a lifetime acheivement award and which gets Barbera Dickson to present it, I really do think that even bad publicity is good publicity.

It is such a tea-with-the-vicar type institution that hints of corruption actually liven it up a bit. I've barely been aware of its existence, and was never remotely interested in it, until this whole "transparency" business came up.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 10:06 AM

"'World Music (whatever that is)' "

Mainly it's music from folk traditions, from anywhere in the world. Unlike what many singer/songwriters etc from here and the USA play in folk clubs without the regulars complaining "it's not folk". Yes it bl**dy is!

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 10:25 AM

I have been pleasantly surprised at how much folk has been on the media recently. Sky arts? Warhorse tunes and I even heard CBS last weekend and the results to a sports match played by women!

I think someone somewhere is listening ( or reading ) comments.
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 10:32 AM

Yes FloraG, plus folk stars and Mercury nominees King Creosote and John Hopkins have had their music played on Top Gear - surely a step in the right direction.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 06:55 PM

Dearly as I love King Creosote, I think that's just a step in the direction of a slightly different style of background music. James Yorkston got me into Anne Briggs, Lal Waterson and Nic Jones - as well as introducing me to some great traditional songs - but he seems to be the only person from that whole scene with any interest in the old stuff.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 08:24 AM

Slightly off topic, I've met King Creosote / Kenny Anderson a few times now. He's in his 40's and for years made a living running a ceiledh band. His father is a well known accordionist and band leader. The music he does is certainly folk afflicted, poor chap. His presence on an ambient pop record on a programme about cars isn't really an event for the folk world to celebrate though.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 10:24 AM

I'm not sure I'd describe that album as ambient pop. Or folk for that matter. Bloody lovely album, though. For what it's worth, Kenny Anderson knows his folk, even if he does other stuff. I still think this song is his finest moment: Not One Bit Ashamed

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 11:10 AM

I've just been watching some bits of film about the Watersons on YouTube with clips from the great Sunday evenings upstairs at the Old Blue Bell in Hull which I used to go to when I was 16 or 17. It just strikes me how wonderfully simple, exciting, friendly and uncommercial it all seemed back then when it was just a matter of getting up and singing what you liked and no-one (well, no-one I knew) discussed what was folk and what wasn't and there were no awards and it was bloody amazing if you got to make a record. As Mike Waterson said: 'We're just playing at it' but they certainly enjoyed the game - as did I.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 08 Feb 12 - 05:25 PM

The opening instrumental and the first half of John Taylor's Month Away had me quite excited, but after that it went off a bit. These days I find that I can't be bothered with songs about the minutiae of people's relationships; give me a big old song about heartbreak and death any day. Lovely sounds, though (and KC's got a lovely voice) - shame about the songs.

As for KC's finest moment, it was unquestionably "678" (I saw him do this live once backed by the Earlies - it was sublime), or else "My favourite girl", which is a rare example of a song that's completely transformed by knowing the back story. I thought it was just a pretty little song until I read in an interview that it's about talking on the phone to his ex-wife, who has custody of their daughter...
Promise you'll tell her
She's my favourite girl
In all the world

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 06:31 AM

A letter in yesterdays Manchester Evening News:

Mike Hardingis quite right (M.E.N.)February 3). Folk music is unfairly mocked and negelcted in Britain, but there are still some pub venues in Manchester, if not clubs, where it's played. And often without addmission charges. The Beech in Chorlton is one that is worth a visit.

That said, the pub scene, whether with or with out music, is very different to what it was like when Mike and others such as Christy Moore and Bernard Wrigley played in the Crumpsall boozers, which I recall from almost 50 years ago. And I don't remember having to pay then either. Geoff Chandler, Chorlton.

L in C#
Big Green Ceilidh Saturday - Songs next Wednesday

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 10:06 AM

You can't help thinking that Don MacCleans out of tune guitar will become a Youtube favourite. Lucky there were no musicians in the audience to notice it! Incredible!

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 11:17 AM

There was an ironic clap from someone in the public gallery when he finally got around to re-tuning

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: GUEST,SteveG
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 11:26 AM

leveller,
Whilst I agree with what you're saying, I think that was actually filmed at the Haworth Arms. I was standing at the back and did some singing while the cameras were off. They'd have had a job setting up lighting and cameras in the old Bluebell room.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: tonyteach1
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 11:44 AM

Well lets see   

1 I have been a TV actor and extra - getting work was hard - waiting for money was harder
80 plus percent of actors are unemployed at any one time Breaking in to the business is just as hard for any newcomer as any where else

I am in touch with gigging singer guitarists The guy who does covers is getting paid work. The clever singer guitarist who is doing his own material is getting gigs but not paid

There is not a conspiracy to stop new young artists developing - its just that the punters prefer established names Sir Bruce is still doing TV at 803 plus. Why because the punters ie the BBC book him

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 12:01 PM

Vic Smith: It would be difficult to quantify, but it seems to me that the proportion of 1960s/1970s young folk performers who took an extra interest in organising and facilitating folk clubs, dances and festivals as part of their interest is a higher proportion than of the young performers today.

Am I right in making this assumption/observation?

And if I am, why is this?

In other words, where are the young organisers to go with the explosion of young performers?

They're organising at venues that aren't recognised as "Folk Clubs" or "Folk Sessions/ Singarounds" but which nevertheless put on a lot of acoustic/ "folky style" music...almost invariably from youngsters.

There are 3 local venues that I go to where I can see lots of young people playing acoustic music. Most of them play their own songs but many of them are au-fait with both British and American folk...eg a trio I saw the other week did 2 of their own songs and then launched into some Woody Guthrie. I'm usually the oldest person in the audience at these venues, except perhaps for some of the performers' parents. I've tried to get some of them to go along to some of the more "traddy" venues in the area but they're generally not interested as they'r ehaving a lot of fun in a more "mixed" environment than they'd get in a traddy venue.

At the folk clubs, singarounds and "more traddy" sessions I go to, with the exception of one notable one where youngsters often turn up, I'm generally one of the youngest there, at 56. Equally, I can't get most of the older ones interested in attending "younger" venues.

The two scenes rarely mix. I managed to mix one event last year when I put on Katriona Gilmore and Jamie Roberts at a local venue, and engaged as their support act a band from the local "younger scene". Although Katriona and Jamie are young, the audience that came to see them was largely older people who'd seen them supporting Fairport or who responded to my leafletting (400 leaflets, into the hands of a member of every party attending the gig) of a Show Of Hands gig. The younger audience members were almost all from the "following" of the local band from the younger local scene. I managed to fill a hall with 104 people and a great mix of ages, and the odd thing is that everyone I spoke to really enjoyed *both* acts, so the "crossover potential" is there.

But it's really hard work to get it going.

Subject: RE: Independent Article on Folk Awards 2012
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 12:05 PM

"leveller,
Whilst I agree with what you're saying, I think that was actually filmed at the Haworth Arms."

Ah, the sands of time (and the beer) dim the memory! Still had some great times at the Blue Bell and at other clubs where I bumped into them Mike always used to call me The Banjo Player - 'cos I did at the time.