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BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 04:23 PM The problem is "defective people" with guns that have no useful purpose other than killing people... I know that the NRAers will shout down the reasonable people... They always do... One day some right winged NRA executive or congressman of radio blow-hard will take about 12-20 rounds from one of these people killers and then, and only then, will we have a resonable conversation... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jul 12 - 04:36 PM The population density of the state of Colorado is not that relevant here. There are areas of Colorado with no population whatsoever, but Denver is a big city. Lots of people. Aurora (I have been there) is a suburb of, and a short drive from, Denver. One report says of Aurora, Colorado that "Aurora sprawls over a greater land mass than its famous neighbor, Denver, yet has no core. The original city center is now blighted, like so many inner-ring American suburbs, and development over the past half century has spread like water spilled on the floor. The current City Hall is across the street from the mall where the shooting occurred."When I was in Denver in the mid-1950s, a couple of friends and I drove out there one evening for a few beers. One of these suburban population centers that has no real identity of its own. As someone once said of another place, "There's no there there!" No, the problem is the archaic, Dodge City style gun laws (or lack of gun laws) that we have in this country. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: pdq Date: 20 Jul 12 - 04:40 PM "...the 12-county Denver-Aurora-Boulder Combined Statistical Area had an estimated 2009 population of 3,110,436 and ranked as the 16th most populous U.S. metropolitan area..." Like San Francisco and Carson City (Nevada), Denver is a city-county entity. Since cities must be entirely within a county, Denver cannot get much past the 650K or so population that it already has. The area around it grows evey day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Jul 12 - 04:48 PM It's not crowding. If it was crowding then Tokyo would have a incidents like that every day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 20 Jul 12 - 04:50 PM Dunblane in Scotland could hardly be said to be overcrowded, but a lunatic massacred all those tiny children and their teacher in a shooting. I'm not a psychologist, but it's often said that these individuals who go crazy and kill everyone in sight have a deep grudge against society. They feel no-one considers or respects them. They have no friends and are isolated. And they are severely mentally ill. I'm wondering if this chap was a paranoid schizophrenic? (Please don't think I'm excusing what he did, I'm merely trying to explain it.) And guns IMO aren't the issue. There was a serial poisoner (Graham Young) in the last century who did the same thing, killing dozens over the years, with arsenic. And of course, terrorist bombers don't use guns either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: katlaughing Date: 20 Jul 12 - 05:14 PM Yeah, maybe he could've put arsenic in a water gun and sprayed them all with that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 20 Jul 12 - 05:30 PM Well, the methods these people choose are varied, but tragically their common aim is to kill and maim in a spectacular and attention-seeking explosion of violence and mayhem. I wonder if they could have been identified as potential killers during their younger days? They must have exhibited some strange and disturbing signs,surely? This chap for instance, we may never know, but I bet he was weird and odd for a long time before this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 05:32 PM It's about wacky guns and wacky people... That is the dangerous combination... Not much we can do about wacky people but... ... a lot, if we had the will, about the wacky guns... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Stim Date: 20 Jul 12 - 05:54 PM "Tragic. A problem Which many Americans, and, in particular, the NRA will not allow us to solve." Do you actually believe that you understand this problem so well that you can "solve" it? It is simplistic to blame the problems that we have with random mass murders on the availability of guns, if for no other reason than that guns were relatively unregulated for most of our history, and only when shooting started to become a problem were they regulated. Furthermore, though there are extensive regulations on the possession and availability of guns, the problem seems to be getting worse, not better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Songwronger Date: 20 Jul 12 - 05:58 PM Yes, America should be totally disarmed. Only our loving police should carry guns. Outlaw guns and the criminals will never be able to get their hands on them. Criminals will never have access to guns because that would be a crime. Outlaw all guns. Keep me safe, police. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: SINSULL Date: 20 Jul 12 - 06:04 PM Clear thinking enough to plan the carnage, protect himself with body armor and now refuse to speak without a lawyer. I pity his mother as much as I feel for the families who have lost loved ones or seen their loved ones scarred for life by this monster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,olddude Date: 20 Jul 12 - 06:14 PM My daughter is ok, she was on the opposite far side, she said she grabbed her friend and hit the exit before the first shots went off. Quick thinking and quick reaction. Still rattled up for sure and so am I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Jul 12 - 06:28 PM No civilian should have access to an AR 15 even a semiautomatic without checking it out of the armory of a well regulated militia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Jul 12 - 06:38 PM The NRA has maybe 4 million members - probably including a fair number who are in there for practical reasons as gun owners, and don't necessarily share the nutty agenda of opposing all sensible gun laws. Anyway, 4 million is a lot of people - but in a country of 300 million people it's just a relatively small minority. No good trying to put all the blame on the NRA if the other hundreds of millions of Americans roll over and let them walk overe them. In any country there's a lunatic fringe. Most places they aren't allowed to rule the roost. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 07:10 PM What we have here is billion$ and billion$ of gun $ales... Of course the usual NRA mantra: Guns don't kill people, people kill people... Bullshit!!! Bad guns kill lots of people... Glocks with big clips... Ak-47s, AR 15s... These are bad guns... 100,000 people will be shot in 2012 in America... No, not all will die but they will be... ...fucking shot!!! America can do a lot better... Outlaw bad guns... Close the loopholes... Restore sanity or America is just going to turn into Somalia on crack... Fuck the NRA!!! They are killing us for $$$... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: gnu Date: 20 Jul 12 - 07:10 PM Unfortunately, reasonable gun laws could be enacted but I suspect there is a lot of money at stake and some of that money ends up in foreign bank accouts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Greg F. Date: 20 Jul 12 - 07:14 PM Look folks, the problem is defective people, not guns. No, PeeDee, the problem is that defective people have free and unregulated access to firearms, and these defective individuals are championed by the NRA, ALEC, and persons like yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 07:30 PM Exactly, Greg... I just got off the time phone with Thomas Jefferson and he is really pissed off... He said we got it all wrong... He said that he and the boys would get together and rewrite the 2nd amendment to bring sanity to the nation... Said he'll get back to me... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jul 12 - 07:43 PM At one time I had a friend, and one of my guitar students, who was very much into guns. He got interested in competitive target shooting when he was in the Marines. But his interest in handguns escalated to the point where he never went out of his house without his trusty Colt .45 automatic strapped to his hip (and concealed by his suit jacket). And, yes, he did have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. He was so tuned to the idea of all the possible threats in the outside world that he damned near shot a mutual friend by accident. And this was shortly followed by his whipping out his gun and joining the police in trying to apprehend a couple of people who were trying to flee from a misdemeanor. The police caught the two (they were trying to drive away after denting a fender on a parked car). But they also arrested the friend, took him in, and confiscated his gun. And he had to go to court. The judge pointed out to him in no uncertain terms that the situation the had interfered in did not warrant the use of deadly force. The judge rescinded his concealed weapons permit and confiscated his gun for ninety days. I don't know what happened after that because I found other places to be and other things to do. I was beginning to feel that he was just too damned dangerous to be around! There are some folks who, if they happen to have a gun in there possession, feel impelled to use it. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Jul 12 - 07:52 PM Another wacked out guy with a gun Decided he would have some fun Killed as many folk as he could Said he did what he thought he should But remember its people not guns, that do murder Give up our Uzi's! Nothing absurder! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: ChanteyLass Date: 20 Jul 12 - 08:15 PM Dan, I am glad your daughter and her friend got out of the theater quickly. My heart goes out to all the victims, their families, and their friends. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 08:20 PM When these things happen, we are all victims... Seems that we are slowly being de-sensitized into a nation happy to just not be shot today... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Elmore Date: 20 Jul 12 - 08:40 PM Attn Guest Stim You're absolutely right. Tighter enforcement of gun control laws might be helpful in some types of crime, but not in crimes like this. Thanks, Elmore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 08:55 PM The NRA's other mantra: Just enforce the laws... Wrong!!! The laws are wrong... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:05 PM But Elmore, Holmes had a Glock--TWO Glocks. And if he did not have them equipped with high-capacity magazines, how could he have shot so many people in so short a time? If more sensible gun laws outlawed fully automatic weapons with high-capacity magazines, as they used to, massacres of this nature would be far less likely. One does not need to outlaw guns entirely. BUT, one can alter the laws to make them far more reasonable, suitable for the sportsman (hunter, target shooter) or for home defense (the six-shot Smith & Wesson revolver easily accessible in the drawer--but safeguarded from curious children). You don't need a fully automatic Glock with a thirty-round magazine for self defense. Only for mayhem! Due to the psychological pecadilloes of the friend mentioned above, I've thought a lot about this matter. It all comes back to "a well regulated militia." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:13 PM Yes, where exactly is the sanity here??? We don't need the masses having weaponry that is superior to our domestic police force... That is... ...beyond crazy... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Songwronger Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:14 PM The NRA is bad. They should all turn their guns in to our guardians, the police. The police are good. They are all even-tempered and stable and know how to use guns responsibly. You would never, NEVER need a gun to protect yourself from the police or an invading military force. So turn in your guns. The police will ALWAYS arrive in time to save your life. You do NOT need to worry about defending yourself. Turn in your guns NOW. And don't pay any attention to the crackpots who will undoubtedly begin linking this shooting to Obama signing two international gun-banning treaties next week--the Law of the Sea Treaty and the U.N. Small Arms Treaty. The Senate needs to ratify all treaties, and these would have been defeated as things were going, but now...who knows? Lets just SEE if the Senate doesn't get rid of those evil guns now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Songwronger Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:15 PM Oh, yeah, and listen to Bobert on this. He's just so rational that it's scary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:28 PM Well, wrong man thinks that the pimps, crooks, burglars, rapists, killers, wackos should have superior fire power to the police??? Very delusional thinking at any level... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Songwronger Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:38 PM Just ban all guns. Do it now. If we ban all guns then the pimps and all of those other bad people wouldn't have any guns. Problem solved. Just ban the guns. Obama will have a plan outlined for us in a couple of weeks, after he signs the gun-banning treaties. We'll be asked to snitch on neighbors about guns, and if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. And this shooting coming at the time of the gun-banning treaties was pure coincidence. Don't listen to the crackpots who say otherwise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:49 PM Why would you do that, wrong man??? Your melo-dramatic throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bath-water doesn't win you any debating points... Guess again... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Jul 12 - 09:58 PM 'We'll be asked to snitch on neighbors about guns, and if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.' This thread is fascinating for those of us who've never been to the USA. So, if your neighbour was seen waving round a machine gun - you wouldn't call the police.....? Its his right under this 4th ammendment - you have to wait til he shoots someone...? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,olddude Date: 20 Jul 12 - 10:03 PM Maybe because I am so much in a rage today and rattled up that I want to give every good person I know an Uzi fully auto ... fight the nut jobs on equal turf |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: pdq Date: 20 Jul 12 - 10:05 PM Machine guns were banned in 1934. It is illegal to own one and any good citizen who recognizes one in the hands of his neighbor is obligated to call the police. Can any of you folks deal with facts and not engage in speculation? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 10:09 PM Bad thinkin, ol'ster... Seems that the more folks with Uzis the more folks getting fucked up... More guns ain't gonna fix nuthin'... Just gonna get more people shot... This ain't rocket surgery here... The more guns, the more killings... Thems happen to be the facts... People didn't get killed back i the 50s and 60s like we have now... Why??? People didn't have guns... Guns kill people... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Songwronger Date: 20 Jul 12 - 10:12 PM I'll have to wait to hear what our president thinks before answering that. The 4th amendment isn't the one about guns. That's the 2nd amendment. The 4th concerns protection against invasions of privacy, and Obama has already decided not to bother with that. He says he can spy on us with drones. And that's fine, because we might be doing something wrong. He should have the right to kill us too, like he says he has. If he sees us doing something wrong we deserve to die. This shooting is beginning to look bad, race-wise. They're reporting a white man shot black people. Don't listen to the crackpots who say this could help kick off the race wars that Obama's mentor Bill Ayers wants for America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: pdq Date: 20 Jul 12 - 10:26 PM "Don't listen to the crackpots who say this could help kick off the race wars that Obama's mentor Bill Ayers wants for America." Yep, it get real difficult to tell Bill Ayres from Charles Manson. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 10:40 PM Bill Ayres is an aging college professor, ya'll... Get real... Get a new boogie man... As for Obama... He ain't gonna say squat... The NRA is more powerful that the president of the United States... They can fuck up anyone... They could fuck up Mother Terrisa if they wanted to... They could fuck up Jesus in a heart beat... No cross... They could fuck up God Hisself... No one goes up against the NRA... They got the $$$ and they got the wackos with big ass guns... You go up against them then there are two outcomes: 1. They will throw the $$$ at you or they... 2. Will throw Lee Harvey Osweld at you... No matter... You lose... Obama understands the dynamics here just as Clinton did after Columbine... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Jul 12 - 10:59 PM I'm a bit hazy on the difference between machine guns and these other ones that fire off lots of shots. they do the same thing, don't they? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jul 12 - 11:03 PM Not a lot of difference, Al... The semi-automatic requires you to pull the rigger per round fired... Automatic??? You hold the trigger down and it fires over and over and over... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: olddude Date: 20 Jul 12 - 11:37 PM PDQ No they are not banned, you just have to have the right FFL license |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Jul 12 - 12:11 AM Hey all. I think that Pdq is talking about a machine gun being a belt fed or large magazine fed high caliber weapon like the kind used in the trenches or WWI WWII and Korea to mow down the enemy from fixed positions. They were also mouted on propeller driven fighter planes. The ar-15 on full auto, as Bobert describes is called and assault rifle. It has much smaller, slower bullets and the magazine, that is the number of available bullets available without a reload is smaller. I have to disagree with bobert on the difference between full auto and semi auto. Full auto is a lot more sure of a kill with an Ar-15 or AK47. Short burst are fired the victim can receive three to five shots, basically before a person can move to duct or run. In between is the "sub machine gun" such as the Thompson gun which has 45 caliber pistol rounds and generally a larger magazine than the assault rifle. I don't know these things from experience but I've drank with some gun nuts and military types in my time, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: katlaughing Date: 21 Jul 12 - 12:31 AM You'd think we could have a thread about the victims, etc., at least for awhile, before it devolves into the usual gun bullshit. People are dead...they are not going home, tonight; they didn't make it home last night. Dan could have lost his daughter. Give it a rest for a few minutes to remember them all, please, people! Surely we can all agree on that?! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Jul 12 - 01:26 AM Kat, With love and respect to you, the title is "Another wacked out guy with a gun." If you were to start a thread called. Love, respect and prayers for the Batman fans in Aurora Colorado, or whatever you can fit, I would proudly post to it with love, prayers and respect. https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/580923_406182782773419_744946334_n.jpg You can start with this link from my conservative friend if you like. https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/580923_406182782773419_744946334_n.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 21 Jul 12 - 02:39 AM Someone made profit from the sale of the guns, and I hope for the rest of their lives every time they look at their money they will see the bloodied bodies of the victims and the grief of their families... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 Jul 12 - 03:58 AM well this is the thing, isn't it? Someone has supplied this deranged character. By any civilised standards - that should have been illegal - I think we can all agree on that. the question is, whether you have laws in place already that should have prevented that, and whether those laws are being applied with sufficient vigour. Never mind about the penitent feelings of the dealer - common sense says he should be doing time for the evil consequences of his acts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: DMcG Date: 21 Jul 12 - 04:37 AM Look folks, the problem is defective people, not guns. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Defective people can kill. Defective people with guns can kill more, more quickly and more certainly. Yes, you have to find a way to deal with defective people who want to kill. That doesn't stop you addressing questions of gun ownership, for example by trying to reduce the opportunities of them getting into the hands of the defective people. In fact, the recognition there are such defective people should spur you to look for ways of stopping them getting at the guns. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Stim Date: 21 Jul 12 - 04:46 AM JtS has it right, of course. This thread is just another thread in which Bobert, who may have a little too much time on his hands, blames someone on his short list for a serious problem, and several others, who have an equal amount of uncommitted time, then blame a number of totally unrelated things on Obama. This is not really about guns. This is not really about Obama. The truth is, we don't know what it's really about. We pretend that we do, though, and that will likely keep us from ever getting any closer to understanding it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack Campin Date: 21 Jul 12 - 05:10 AM Tighter enforcement of gun control laws might be helpful in some types of crime, but not in crimes like this. The guy's weapons were all legal, so the evidence suggests the opposite. It's quite possible he bought the weapons when still sane (or at least, not crazy enough to be refused them) and then flipped. He seems to have been a compulsively law-abiding hyper-conformist religiously obsessed prig. The sort of case that comes to mind is that of James Clerk of Eldin, one of the leading judges in Scotland in the early 19th century. His family had hereditary Alzheimer's. After a distinguished legal career, somebody found him firing a pistol out of his window into pitch darkness trying to hit invisible demonically possessed cats. (Fortunately nobody got hurt). That could happen to anybody. Here's Kendall (who owns much more and better weaponry than Clerk of Eldin did) in another thread, talking the "home invasion" scenario: However, if you catch him "Red handed", that's a different story; then, he may pose a deadly threat to you and you have a right to defend yourself, or your wife's honor. Is Kendall uniquely immune to getting Alzheimer's or a stroke affecting cognitive function, and imagining such a threat? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Leadfingers Date: 21 Jul 12 - 06:14 AM 100 |
