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BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jul 12 - 08:01 AM Yo, Stim, Your post is delusional... Just leave your Obama hate outside... I didn't bring up Obama except in response to PDQ's back-handed Bill Ayers boogie-man that righties us to drag Obama into conversations that clearly aren't about Obama... Ya'll on the right are so eat up with Obama that there is no story, no discussion, that ya'll don't infect with your obsession with Obama... Yo, Jack... I have fired both an automatic and a semi-automatic... The automatic is the weapon of choice in a fierce fire fight... BTW, the AK 47 can be purchased at any Virgina gun show without it being reported to ATF or a background check... For an extra $5 you can buy a book on how to make it fire automatically... _____________________________________________________________________ Everyone else, There are weapons designed exclusively to kill people... Civil societies don't need to make them available to the general population... Somalia??? Different story... BTW, before anyone steps up and says that the US government is out to kill its people, forget it... That is tin-foil talk... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Jul 12 - 09:27 AM Stim, Bob's views on gun control have always been made clear on this forum. He blames the NRA for the proliferation of guns in this country and since it is an alliance of all those who wish to promote gun use, lobby the government and disseminate pro gun propaganda, his stance is a reasonable one. A lot of people upon seeing the news of this mass murder thought. "We need more gun control." They think that every time such a tragedy occurs, which is far too often. Big Al. There is a big debate in this country about what weapons should be legal. This incident does nothing to change that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Greg F. Date: 21 Jul 12 - 09:31 AM Big Al- Actually, gun regulations in the U.S. have been steadly eroded due to a concerted NRA/right wing campaign for the last 25 years. THIS may be instructive. And before the howls of "Communist Publication" from PDQ & the usual suspects reaches a crescendo, the facts in the article can be very easily verified with a little on-line research. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jul 12 - 09:49 AM "Tighter enforcement of gun control laws might be helpful in some types of crime, but not in crimes like this." But there appear to be virtually no gun control laws in Colorado - and the existing gun regulations seek to make it impossible to introduce even the kind of controls that excist in many other states. Here's an extract from their rules about guns: "Local governments are prohibited from maintaining a list or other record or database of persons who purchase or exchange firearm or leave them for repair or sale on consignment, and persons who transfer firearms unless they are federally licensed firearms dealers, or of the descriptions, including serial numbers, of such firearms. "Local governments may not enact any ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 21 Jul 12 - 09:51 AM ""I am for gun control, for limiting certain types of weapons and the capacity of gun magazines. I am also for the regulation of other personal weapons and explosives."" Given the number of semi intelligent irresponsible gun owners, any attempt to take their guns would likely result in multiple deaths among those trying to enforce it. I think the first step would be to circumvent the NRA litany ""Guns don't kill people, people kill people""", by focussing on the gun buyer. Demanding an explanation backed up with evidence as to the need for the quantities of ammunition, as well as character references from verifiable sources, and if the answers don't add up, making it illegal to supply ammunition would seem logical. That way the nutcase still has a gun (satisfying the letter of the second amendment, which says nothing about ammo), but he ain't going to do much damage unless he throws it at somebody. Before anybody brings up the question of purchasing from internet sources, US authorities had no difficulty dealing with Brits whose internet activities annoyed them. If they can stop the sale of a bunch of batteries, 6000 rounds of .223 should be a doddle. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,999 Date: 21 Jul 12 - 09:56 AM "Can any of you folks deal with facts and not engage in speculation?" I can. 1) The killer had guns. 2) He shot about 60 people, killing twelve. 3) It would have been really difficult to do that with a knife. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 21 Jul 12 - 10:02 AM ""There was a serial poisoner (Graham Young) in the last century who did the same thing, killing dozens over the years, with arsenic. And of course, terrorist bombers don't use guns either."" I'm afraid, with the utmost respect Eliza, that you are equating apples and banjos. Young killed over a period of years, and he managed that because he lived in a time before modern forensics. Anybody emulating him today wouldn't get past the first victim. As to terrorists and bombs, what is it, do you suppose, that the police and the bomb squad are trying to defuse at this fruitcake's residence? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: MGM·Lion Date: 21 Jul 12 - 10:09 AM No-one seems to have mentioned some things reported in this morning's The Times (ie the prominent UK paper). Holmes dressed up as The Joker & declared himself to be the Joker while firing. Some people thought at first, they said after, that he was some sort of support act to the film supplied by the cinema. The New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly [whose role in the matter is unclear to me as the incident occurred a longlong way from there] is quoted as commenting that Holmes "clearly looks like a deranged individual I quote these, not as part of the argument re gun control ~~ we all know that we over here have an entirely different view to most over there ~~ but for any evidential value that might be thus provided as to state of mind of the perpetrator. ~Michael~ Another point of interest, indirectly related, is that our leading tennis player Andy Murray, no 4 in the world, is a survivor of the Dunblane school shooting of 1996. He ran and hid in an empty classroom, apparently. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jul 12 - 10:10 AM From a BBC news summary: In the 60 days leading up to the cinema attack, Mr Holmes legally bought four weapons at local gun shops - an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, two .40-calibre Glock handguns and a 12-gauge Remington shotgun. Chief Dan Oates of Aurora police said he also purchased more than 6,000 rounds of ammunition on the internet, including 3,000 rounds for the assault rifle, 3,000 for the Glocks and 300 for the shotgun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 21 Jul 12 - 10:13 AM ""It is simplistic to blame the problems that we have with random mass murders on the availability of guns, if for no other reason than that guns were relatively unregulated for most of our history, and only when shooting started to become a problem were they regulated."" I'd have said they were as regulated in the 19th Century West as they are now. When the man who drew first was hanged if he survived, and the man who drew second was given the right of self defence and walked free. When drawing a gun to shoot unarmed civilians meant being shot dead or hanged for murder. Apart from the question of capital punishment, what would you say has changed? Yet, there are very few documented instances of angry men killing large numbers of unarmed total strangers at that time, unless of course, you count the Indians massacred by government troops. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 21 Jul 12 - 10:17 AM Food for thought: Holmes's long-time neighbors in San Diego say he seemed to be shy but smart, personable, and perfectly normal. His parents, however, say they're "not surprised" that he became a mass murderer. So far it isn't clear what, if anything, they did to prevent it. This goes far deeper than gun control. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 21 Jul 12 - 10:44 AM News story: increased gun control no longer a topic of interest: http://news.yahoo.com/obama-romney-views-evolved-toward-gun-rights-075546394.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,999 Date: 21 Jul 12 - 10:58 AM '. . . He had his hair painted red, he said he was the Joker."' Try a midnight theater-viewing of The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Forget the movie. Watch the audience. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:19 AM GUEST, Lighter wrote His parents, however, say they're "not surprised" that he became a mass murderer. So far it isn't clear what, if anything, they did to prevent it. I didn't read anything that concluded that the parents aren't surprised. If you read the ABC story, on the morning after the shooting an ABC reporter called and the conversation began from his mother "you have the right person." Think about it - this is probably in answer to "is this James Holmes' mother?" She then said she couldn't talk and she had to get to Colorado. End of conversation. Talk about playing a game of Rumor. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: katlaughing Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:38 AM Understood, JtS. I don't usually read this paper, but the op/ed piece HERE is interesting, imo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Greg F. Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:58 AM Can any of you folks deal with facts and not engage in speculation Well, apparently YOU can't PeeDee- since you are wrong about the "ban" on machine guns. Thanks for playing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Greg F. Date: 21 Jul 12 - 12:08 PM guns were relatively unregulated for most of our history, and only when shooting started to become a problem were they regulated. Furthermore, though there are extensive regulations on the possession and availability of guns, the problem seems to be getting worse, not better. Now you're being disingenuous, Stim, or simply ignorant. Do check into the daily carnage, maiming and death from firearms of all types circa 1875 - 1915 in the good old U.S. of A., not only in the "Wild West" but in the major settled areas and cities as well. There sure as hell WAS a problem. The laissez-faire government at the time just didn't want to deal with it. Start here- http://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~19~19 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: bobad Date: 21 Jul 12 - 12:15 PM Bill Moyers: NRA has turned the 2nd Amendment "into a cruel and deadly hoax" Every year there are 30,000 gun deaths and 300,000 gun-related assaults in the U.S. Firearm violence may cost our country as much as $100 billion a year. Toys are regulated with greater care and safety concerns. So why do we always act so surprised? Violence is our alter ego, wired into our Stone Age brains, so intrinsic its toxic eruptions no longer shock, except momentarily when we hear of a mass shooting like this latest in Colorado. But this, too, will pass and the nation of the short attention span quickly finds the next thing to divert us from the hard realities of America in 2012. We are after all a country which began with the forced subjugation into slavery of millions of Africans and the reliance on arms against Native Americans for its Westward expansion. In truth, more settlers traveling the Oregon Trail died from accidental, self-inflicted gunshots wounds than Indian attacks â€" we were not only bloodthirsty but also inept. The Raw Story |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Jul 12 - 12:16 PM Thanks for the link, Kat. I've passed along that cartoon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Stim Date: 21 Jul 12 - 12:29 PM To be clear, here, I am not an Obama hater, and I didn't say anything against him. I just pointed out that when Bobert gets out his "Wes Ginny Slide Rule" or his "Smoky Mountain Pork Scale" or whatever, the usual suspects step out of the woodwork and rant about Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 21 Jul 12 - 01:57 PM The story I heard came from CNN, not ABC. The larger issue is still whether there were "warning signs" and, if so, for how long and if anything was done about them. To repeat: "This goes far deeper than gun control." "Nuts" - like the guy at Virginia Tech - don't typically just wake up one morning and decide to massacre a crowd of people. They build to it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 Jul 12 - 03:39 PM Over there seems to be two camps deeply suspicious of each other. The Freiends of Guns - lets 'em FOG's and the enemies of guns, EOG. Neither side are happy about these incidents like Denver. two points;- 1) I used to live in Nottingham, England - sometimes referred to as the capital of gun crime i the UK - although it must be said you could live all your life in Notingham and never see a gun. The fact is if you ain't a drugs dealer or a police officer, you won't own a gun. Most police officers don't carry guns - just the armed response units. Anyway one night - a nut climbed to the top of a pub- he had a shotgun - but he soon had fired off his crtridges to little effect. then he was hailed by the police helicopter, and he proceded to fire firework rockets at it. Imagine if that nut had access to the kind of guns and weapons he could have got in America - it would have been a very serious incident - instead of a bit of light relief . FOGs - you're kidding yourselves if you can't admit that keeping guns out of the hands of people who might, or might not be crazy wouldn't give the general public a greater degree of protection. 2) Binge killlers - we seem to be producing them in ever greater numbers. Even places like Norway - and in England - we've had Dunblane, Hungerford, and at least two other incidents in the last few years. We need some sort of register for people who are on the edge of doing this. Its no use getting professionals - we need centres where these folk have to present themslves and be monitored, taking their drugs, and how they interract should be noted. I believe in self- help groups - they need to be monitored by people who know what the depths of this depressive behaviour feels like - fellow sufferers. EOG's - a good supportive community would not be producing these people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jul 12 - 03:44 PM I would suspect that the kind of "warning signs" probably involved would be shared by large numbers of people who never go on to do anything remotely like this. I mean stuff like being obsessed by fantasy violence and dehumaising computer games and not having much of a life in the real world. The trouble is, you can't put the geni back in the bottle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: olddude Date: 21 Jul 12 - 05:23 PM Well right now isn't a good time to talk to me on weapons, I am still in a rage, and still mourning those that lost kids. I am going out, my kids better show me they still know Kuntau, still can defend against knife attacks and can still shoot or they are getting crash courses again as when they were grown up... I had enough insanity, now I am in protect mode and I am damn good at it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jul 12 - 05:44 PM Unfortunately olddude, that is hardly very likely to make your kids or you safer. "Protect mode" is, in it's way, one kind of insanity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Jul 12 - 05:51 PM There will be no registry of nut cases on the verge of committing mayhem. It's unimaginable for all of the civil liberty reasons that anyone can come up with. But there are families all over America with grown children or siblings who know that the once-sweet child grew into a troubled teen who resisted help and by early adulthood was unreachable as far as mental health professionals were concerned. These individuals know they're smarter than everyone else, that anyone who tries to tell them what drugs to take or what doctor to see is delusional, and that all of those jobs or classes or places where people are continually turning against them in the end really understood and were on his side. Pardon me, did I say "his?" Perhaps because I know someone like that, who is beyond the reach of family, who knows in his mind that he knows better than his friends. As long as he hasn't hurt anyone else or himself, he is free to do whatever he wants. When the parents died, anyone who remotely had "control" of this individual was gone. In a place where someone like that is free, and guns are easily obtainable, then family members sit up straight, listen intently anytime there is news of a series of violent assaults by some unknown sniper or intruder. And realize that this time it is some other family who has to suffer the unwanted attention when their sibling or child is the one caught and charged. This is the individual you expect to turn up dead in a parking lot one night after tangling with someone even sicker than he is. You have to choose - either control the mentally ill people, or control the guns. You can't have them both out there as free radicals and have a safe society. And since you can't control the people (America is too busy incarcerating individuals for non-violent and for small-amount user drug crimes) it would make sense to control the guns. I won't hold my breath. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack Campin Date: 21 Jul 12 - 05:57 PM my kids better show me they still know Kuntau, still can defend against knife attacks and can still shoot or they are getting crash courses again as when they were grown up... I had enough insanity, now I am in protect mode and I am damn good at it. A lot of nutters who go on killing sprees think they're protecting something - their race, religion, values, honour, reputation or family. Breivik being the most glaring recent example. The way you're headed, you don't need guns, you need counselling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Greg F. Date: 21 Jul 12 - 05:59 PM Big Al- In addition to the FOGs and the EOGs there is in the U.S. actually a much larger contingent of responsible firearms owners, sportsmen/Sportswomen & hunters (whatever you think of blood sports) who recognize the need for rational firearms legislation & control measures and who consider the National Rifle Association to be a gang of lunatics. Why this group hasn't more "traction" and why they are consistently drowned out by the FOGs and the EOGs is a whole other issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jul 12 - 06:02 PM My ol' sansei, 4th degree Okinawan black belt, teaches that your best defense is to shout and run... Yes, self defense is always good to know... That's why you learn it... But it's last resort... Not first option... If you have a gun and try to defend yourself with it your chances of survival are decreased... Yes, there are instances where the outcomes are good but... ...way too many where they don't turn out well... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jul 12 - 06:51 PM BTW, gun control ain't about what happened in Colorado... It's about what happens every day in America... 100,000 people will be shot in the US this year, and next, and next, and next... This is insanity on meth... Yes, people are messed up... But when you make very dangerous weapons readily available to messed up people that is irresponsible... I don't give a flying fuck about your rights to own what ever kinda of gun you want if in owning it you are infringing on my rights to not get shot... We need sanity restored to this country and quit letting Redneck Nation run the show... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,olddude Date: 21 Jul 12 - 07:17 PM maybe so but right now it is my response and suspect it maybe yours also if it were your kid ... anyway, I take no offense to those that don't do what I do ... I can only do my best to avoid the victim syndrome that keeps occurring. when Good people do nothing to protect themselves then evil will always win. Cops ain't everywhere. Besides a good course in self defense is good exercise if nothing else. Hell of a lot more useful then yoga. And knowing your way around firearms was a way of life in my area of the country. MaYBE because every person is armed that there is no such situations in the mountains of PA . Dunno, don't care actually. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jul 12 - 07:22 PM Why this group hasn't more "traction" and why they are consistently drowned out by the FOGs and the EOGs is a whole other issue. That's what puzzles me, from across the ocean. It seems reasonable to assume that most people who for various reasons want to do stuff like hunting with a gun are no crazier than people with other hobbies, such as fishing or for that matter playing folk music. So how is it they let crazies speak for them? It's as if the motoring organisations were against driving tests and speed limits. So how does that come about? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,olddude Date: 21 Jul 12 - 07:28 PM It about money, there are not sensible gun laws... none ... the NRA makes sure of that ..Its about money and political power. The NRA of our dad that was 100% about the sportsman is not anymore. That is why so many wack jobs can get armed so easily. I am rambling and once I cool down I suspect things will be back to normal but today it ain't no pocket watch I am carrying into the city grocery shopping,. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Janie Date: 21 Jul 12 - 07:35 PM McGrath I really appreciate your recent comments. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Greg F. Date: 21 Jul 12 - 08:14 PM So how is it they let crazies speak for them? It's as if the motoring organisations were against driving tests and speed limits. So how does that come about? I wish I could tell you Kevin. Dan's right to an extent- its a cynical play for money and political power. But it also has to do with the same bunch of mindless idiots that think The Prez.is a Muslim fundamentalist & support the Tea Party Republicans - I whole-heartedly recommend Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free by Charles P. Pierce Click Here |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jul 12 - 08:25 PM Yeah, stupid is the in thing, Greg... Meanwhile the TeaPubs attack education, ignore the fact that the US ranks very high in all the bad stuff and very low in the good stuff and continues down the slippery slope toward the abyss, i.e, a failed state with so much imposed poverty & ignorance it can not correct itself... Redneck Nation is a stupid nation... And one certain to fail... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jul 12 - 08:36 PM I understand that there are people with crazy ideas who can raise money from other crazy people with money, and can sometimes try to take over organisations such as the NRA. But why do the majority who aren't crazy let them do it? "The NRA of our dad that was 100% about the sportsman is not anymore." So how did the members allow that to happen? I mean, I can quite imagine the BNP here trying to take over our EFDSS - but they wouldn't be allowed to get away with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jul 12 - 08:42 PM Yo, McG... I was an NRA member for 20 years... I used to be a member of a local NRA shoot club... I got the medals and the patches and all that... This ain't my NRA... This is an enemy of the state... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Janie Date: 21 Jul 12 - 08:45 PM I long for the day when very bright and caring people such as the usual suspects here learn to stop finger pointing, accept the validity of varying points of view, recognize that politics are not the be all and end all, stop posting sound bites and talking points, and most of all, start respecting and acknowledging complexity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jul 12 - 09:05 PM Nothin' complex about the NRA, Janie... For the last 30 years they have been a fortress of right winged ideology... That's not a sound bite... That is reality... I know... I been on both sides of the NRA... I quit them when they expanded to preaching about homosexuality, abortion, liberals, etc. etc... No sound bite on my end... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 21 Jul 12 - 09:20 PM For your consideration: 1. There are at least 200,000,000 *legal* guns out there right now. And maybe as many more that are *illegal.* They will not go away. In other words, no conceivable gun control can absolutely prevent massacres such as this one, or the tens of thousands of shootings, intended and accidental, that occur annually. 2. As long as the Supreme Court believes that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms (and that includes ammunition) to all law-abiding citizens, no law can prevent a lunatic with no criminal record from getting as many guns and bullets as he wants. 3. Nor is it possible for any legislation to outlaw the purchase of firearms by apparently law-abiding citizens - and that includes citizens who are about to break the law big-time. I won't say that no tightening of current gun laws or their enforcement is possible (of course it is), but my reality sensors tell me that the effect on actual gun crime would be minimal indeed. The outlaws *will* always have guns, the unnoticed lunatics *will* always be able to get them, and other people will still shoot each other in fits of rage or intoxication. Stronger laws would help somewhat, but they wouldn't fix the problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jul 12 - 09:25 PM Strict enforcement of better gun laws will restore a lot of sanity... But, I agree, the "problem" isn't all about guns... It's about a society so consumed with consuming that it is consuming itself with no regard for its future... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,olddude Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:06 PM there is no regard for human life anymore, no respect for others, no compassion or caring ... ya gotta worry about someone blowing your kids head off just going out to the movies or going to school or out for a burger. ME mine are getting custom .357 Mags for xmas and I will do the trigger jobs and night site install myself .. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,olddude Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:20 PM and better be ready cause I am going to put them through a seal training including kuntau and Krav Maga . Taught them before, they better damn well remember it they think hiking the 14 K moutain's are tough .. wait till next week. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bill D Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:23 PM About the comments asking why there was no one in the theater who had a gun and who could have shot the idiot before he did so much damage....the idea being that if, like Arizona, concealed carry is legal, and a larger % of the populace was armed, we would all be safer. When Congresswoman Giffords was shot in Arizona, there WAS a young man 'packing' who was right there. He explained that he almost drew his weapon and shot the aide who was helping Giffords, mistaking him for the shooter. In the heat of the confusing moment, it is just as likely one will do the wrong thing as the right thing. If you think YOU would 'be more careful' and are more likely than most to guess right..... then imagine the scenario where 'most' are packing! How many testosterone-fueled good-guy vigilantes would you want pulling weapons in a dark,crowded theater? My point is- there ARE some good people who are reasonable, sane and well-trained in firearms. There are several who post here whom I would generally trust with my life in a situation where firearms were So... what is the answer? Basically, the test should be: do you NEED certain types of firearms, not can you USE them. Are you a hunter? Then, sure...pass certain tests and you may own hunting rifles. But pistols?... large magazine or not.. PROVE your personal job or situation requires it! Then pass all sorts of training & review BEFORE you get a license. Auto or semi-auto assault-type weapons? NO! Police and military only! Do I realize there are already thousands of pistols and AK-47s & such out there in the hands of not-quite-trustworthy folls? Sure... I am totally aware that my suggested rules & regulations would be hard to implement...but we MUST start somewhere! If the rules had been in place one year ago, this latest idiot might not have found it so easy to be a dangerous idiot! In all situations where we find ourselves "waist deep in the Big Muddy", the first rule is don't wade out NECK deep! Then rule 2 is: slowly wade back towards shore. If you are worried that too many fools have too many guns, the answer is NOT 'go get a gun of your own'! If that was a basic response, the old joke about a "circular firing squad" would not be very funny after awhile. I am sure all those who own various guns will find all sorts of arguments.. as does the NRA.. to disagree with me. It is always VERY hard to back down from a long-held position - especially an emotional one. It was once quite fashionable to have duels, beat wives, and own slaves. I hope my great-grandchildren will be able to go to a gun museum and say.."gee, people used to keep those things at home!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:25 PM Dan a hundred million people will probably see that movie. 12 people dead. The odds are with your kids. You want to actually make them safer?. talk them out of ever driving or riding in anything smaller than a bus. But even on a motor cycle they are probably the safest generation. As far as martial arts go and carrying a gun. Much safer to travel in circles where those things are not needed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bill D Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:32 PM Much safer to travel in circles where those things are not needed. Amen! I have NEVER...NEVER... in 55 years as an adult, needed a gun! The one situation where I was around them was ludicrous, because my friend... well-trained and competent with guns... was also sorta like George Zimmerman. He thought he had to 'watch' over his friends and he did various stupid stuff. He just never became a news story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: katlaughing Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:07 AM BillD, as usual, I agree with you. It becomes disheartening when new laws are passed which free up gun-toting. Just recently, the University of Colorado in Boulder passed some regulation which allows concealed weapons to be carried anywhere on campus, including classrooms, by students, faculty, etc. I would remind folks who think the "Wild West" as an example of guns "keeping the peace," a lot of towns made folks check their guns in at the local constabulary, only getting them back again when they left town. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:42 AM In the late 19th century Doc Holiday was banned from gambling in Denver because he would not give up his Colt 45's and Derringers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:55 AM Bill, your post just above pretty much describes the situation with my friend, the one who almost shot another good friend and shortly thereafter, got himself arrested when "helpfully" interfered with police trying to make an arrest. He gave me some very good instruction and training in target shooting, and then went on to instruct me in combat shooting. I have a couple of guns. One primarily for target shooting: a tournament grade .22 cal., big, looks like it should shoot laser beams. Purely for sport. And another one, a Walther PPK .380 cal. Looks like the one James Bond carries. Apart from popping away at empty soda pop cans, the only thing it's good for is carrying concealed and shooting people. After I decided that my handgun instructor was too damned dangerous to be around, my firearms are locked in a drawer. With the small supply of ammo (a box of 50 rounds for each of them) locked in another drawer in a separate room. My wife and I live in a secured apartment building, and there are friendly people all around. I do not feel that I need a gun for personal safety. Of course there is always the possibility that I could encounter someone like James Holmes somewhere. But I think it's more likely that I could be seriously injured by some kid with his pants at half-mast going to beat hell down the sidewalk on a skateboard! Don Firth P. S. There was a bizarre incident a few weeks ago. Some witless wonder came walking up the street near where we live shooting a .38 cal. revolver at trees and into grassy embankments. Neighbors heard the shoots and called the police. They picked the guy up a block or two away. He said he was just testing the gun to see if it worked all right. I didn't hear the outcome of the story, but I do know that there are some very severe penalties for discharging a firearm within the city limits. He's in very deep do-do! |
