BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:27 AM

Kat, I'm amazed! Can it really be true that Colorado University ALLOWS its students to carry loaded weapons around on Campus?? That's astonishing! How very dangerous and bizarre that seems to us in UK. Here, even a knife is completely illegal, and one would be instantly arrested for possession.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 06:02 AM

My poem on gun laws, "Monopoly" - http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/walkaboutsverse-100-of-230.html

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 06:26 AM

there is no regard for human life anymore, no respect for others, no compassion or caring

Then how come rates of violent crime have been steadily declining in the entire developed world for decades?

Declining much faster from a lower peak in countries without a fascist gun culture, but they're declining in the US too.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 07:13 AM

well....there wouldn't be any point in carrying an unloaded gun on campus. And who knows perhaps Jean paul Sartre was right - people were at the most free under the nazis in France, because every choice was in the presence of death. that would liven up Philosophy 101!

Poor old Charlton Heston - I bet when he came down from the mountain with Thou Shall Not Kill - he never thought there would be all these ammendments.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 07:38 AM

"there is no regard for human life anymore, no respect for others, no compassion or caring ..."

If you think that's true just try reading S.C. Gwynnes recent book, 'Empire of the Summer Moon' - an account of the Comanches and their last great leader, Quanah Parker.

The Comanches routinely practiced appalling violence (frequently against fellow Native Americans - not just white people); mass murder, gang rape and torture. The primary occupation of all Comanche males was war and every single one of them would probably be classified now as a cold-blooded, psycopathic killer who should be locked up for the rest of his life - "another wacked out guy with a gun" ... and a bow and arrows, and a tomahawk, and a scalping knife.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 08:44 AM

The fact that guns make it easier to kill people is well covered above.

What there has been less said about is that the Wild West mentality seems so oddly prevalent in the US psyche - and that there seems to be an endless stream of US - oriented or originated propaganda from Hollywood and from rap music and from metal music and etc etc to the broad effect that violence and guns are the only manly answers and ways to solve problems. These things have made Clint Eastwood, Sylvester Stallone, Steven Seagal and Jean-Claude van Damme stars.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:14 AM

Yeah! and Jason Stratham, Vinnie Jones and Daniel Craig

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:36 AM

Nice post, Bill D...

The NRA has been pushing legislation that will, in effect, make us less safe with more and more untrained people with concealed (or not) weapons... Federal parks should be gun free zones... Face it, the national parks have been the safest place on the planet to hang out, hike, camp, fish, boat, etc... I don't want wackos there with guns... I pay taxes, too, and there should be places where I can go and not be concerned about wackos...

Lets get real here... Wackos ain't into parks... It's not their bag...

I also don't want them is restaurants that serve alcohol... But the NRA does... Great... A bunch of armed drunks... This is insanity on crack...

Here's the most disappointing aspect of this issue... The only voices we hear are those of the NRA and wackos... Our side never ever gets a word in edge-ways except here on the Internet... But Big Media is so afraid of the NRA that they ignore folks like Bill D as if he were a radiation pit...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:47 AM

A bunch of armed drunks.

Is enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:57 AM

""there is no regard for human life anymore, no respect for others, no compassion or caring ..."

If you think that's true just try reading S.C. Gwynnes recent book, 'Empire of the Summer Moon' - an account of the Comanches and their last great leader, Quanah Parker.""

The logic of this statement escapes me!!

The fact that relatively primitive tribesmen behaved appallingly one hundred and fifty years ago has absolutely no bearing on the standards of behaviour which might be expected in a supposedly civilised country in the twenty first century.

The two are not mutually exclusive!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 10:00 AM

Well I am starting to settle down a bit. One commentator on TV said that when Bill Clinton passed the brady bill, it cost the dems the house and senate seats bigtime. So no party will talk about sane laws. People on the terrorist watch list are not prevented from buying .. So why would they prevent a wacked out nut job ...

Like I said, gun shows, little checking ... there are no sane laws so be prepared to see a lot more of this stuff sadly

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: number 6
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 10:14 AM

Go on and on ranting and pointing fingers at the NRA, rednecks and the wild, wild west metality of the U.S.A.

Toronto gun violence rages as politicians debate solutions

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 10:22 AM

Kat
The no guns on campus law is federal, no state can override that. The University Administration can pass their own policy but the Federal law still applies.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 10:24 AM

"The logic of this statement escapes me!!"

The logic is that it (i.e. violence) is probably not getting worse (except in certain parts of the world such as Syria). Violence was much worse in the past - and not just in Texas 150 years ago. Many other cultures, in the past, had a much greater contempt for human life than we do now.

And by the way, as a Brit, it seems blindingly obvious to me that the US's problems with gun crime are largely the result of the ready availability of guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 10:38 AM

Ok no matter what country you live in do this for your kids and loved ones. Take a broom stick, put it in the palm of your hand and cut it so it sticks out a half inch each side. In Kuntau we call that little piece of wood a (pronounced yarrow-R). In a fist it will turn a 100 pound little girl into Mike Tyson. The edges will cut like a box cutter. A down blow will kill ... and it is a little piece of wood in a fist. Not a weapon, legal anywhere but in the right hands .. devastating.

If we gotta live in a war zone at least do that

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Megan L
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 10:48 AM

Thankfully some of us dont live in a war zone violence begets violence.

The Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg of Norway had it right today when he said "The killer failed; the people have won,"

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 10:49 AM

I don't know about that. All I know is it is allowed on the campus. You may read about the case that went to the CO Supreme Court .

Eliza, there are many of us, over here, who feel the same incredulity. My grandma attended "Normal School" in the one building which made up CU when she got her teacher's certificate. Those were horse and buggy days. I am sure, if anyone had a gun, it would have been for dealing with injured animals and/or protection from wildlife, i.e.rattlesnakes and the like. It would not be because of some misguided "students for concealed weapons on campus" group.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 10:50 AM

I'll tell you who is wacked out. It's the NRA encouraging the sale of automatic weapons and the gun manufacturers who are not being controlled by regulation.

The ruse about the Second Amendment ignores entirely the part about the "Regulated Militia", something the NRA and the gun manufacturers apparently know nothing about.

Gun control is as necessary as automobile controls and traffic stoplights and signs.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: number 6
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 11:19 AM

Trying to control, regulate guns is as futile as the war on and illigalized drugs ... both involve the commerce of big $money$ .. there is also the element of violence that plagues humans in regards to weaponry.

Sadly I do admit I'm somewhat pessimistic but I feel Jens Stoltenberg's statement is somewhat as shallow as Neville Chamberlan's "peace for our time".

As for traffic and stop signs, many European cities are doing away with these street regulations ... ""The many rules strip us of the most important thing: the ability to be considerate. We're losing our capacity for socially responsible behavior," says Dutch traffic guru Hans Monderman, one of the project's co-founders. "The greater the number of prescriptions, the more people's sense of personal responsibility dwindles."

"we're losing our capacity for socially responsible behaviour" ... I think that says a lot.

We are now becoming a society where everyone is talking, wanting to be heard but we have lost touch to listen, and to touch out and feel humanity.

anyway ... that's my opinion on this whole tragic mess.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 11:23 AM

The guy who sold Jame Holmes the assault rifle has said he had a bad feeling about the guy... Hmmmmmmm???? I'd say that if a gun dealer has a bad feeling about someone buying an assault rifle that he should have notified the FBI or DHS or someone...

And, yeah, Strings hits a point that many of us have argued going back forever but never gets a fair hearing... The 2nd amendment is one sentence meaning that the thoughts expressed in it are, ahhhhh, related... That's the way the English language works... But the NRA wackos shoot right on past the "well regulated militia" part because it absolutely destroys their argument... Hey, the law is the law... Not a lunch menu...

Thomas Jefferson would tell us to reread the amendment for content and quit playing stupid...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 11:57 AM

kat & Bobert seem to have read my entire long post....

Lest there be any confusion and/or misunderstanding, I am 'advocating' not just regulating stupid things like gun shows, but also changing the laws to require anyone who wants to own ANY firearm to show cause AND competence.
Hunters would find it fairly easy to obtain reasonable equipment. However, handguns would be restricted to those who **need** them, with 'need' being determined by a panel of police and relevant officials. Existing handguns and assault weapons would be gradually recalled & removed from the general public, with SEVERE penalties for using them in ANY way and/or refusing to comply. (Yes...I DO know that would be slow & tedious to do....but the alternative is MORE of them)

For those who hold to the crazy notion that "our guns are our defense against the rise of a government who wants to take away out guns!", I say... look at your own logic.


(You will note I am not holding my breath waiting for my ideas to be approved- I don't look good when I turn blue.)

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:01 PM

Kat, I'm amazed! ... Colorado University ALLOWS its students to carry loaded weapons around on Campus??

Well, if that amazes you, Eliza, check out the article I suggested to Big Al on 21 Jul 12 - 09:31 AM, above.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:26 PM

bill
we have that already in the state of NY but it doesn't do a thing of good because of the "gun show" law ... negates any sensible gun laws

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 12:35 PM

Dan... does NY actually require those who apply for a permit to prove need? Or just lack of criminal record?

You own firearms... what is your 'status'.

The problem of gun shows in places like Virginia does indeed make local laws useless.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 01:00 PM

If you actually want to make your kids safer, make sure they and the people around them know how to do CPR.

Having people going around with fantasies in their head about being violent is one factor making these kinds of things more likely to happen - even if the fantasies start as being about self defence and defending other people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST, Lighter
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 01:06 PM

> The 2nd amendment is one sentence meaning that the thoughts expressed in it are, ahhhhh, related... That's the way the English language works.

True, but that one sentence is ambiguous:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Interpretation 1 (restrictive): "A well-regulated militia is necessary, so the people are allowed to bear arms only as members of that militia."

Interpretation 2 (nonrestrictive): "The right of the people to bear arms is fundamental, and one of the things they need to do is form a well-regulated militia; but regardless, the right to bear arms shall not be infringed."

The Supreme Court, which knows more about the historical context and Constitutional law than I do, has plumped for door No. 2. Since it's less restrictive, it grants less power to the feds and more to the people. That makes it (wait for it)...

"liberal."

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 01:34 PM

I don't think the Supreme Court knows much more than any educated person knows... I mean, any English teacher can diagram the 2nd amendment but I doubt that any Supreme Court justice could... In diagramming sentences one sees the structure and relationships of words to others...

I agree that the sentence is difficult but for the NRA to constantly beat the "2nd amendment" drum yet not allow a full discussion of the amendment is dogmatic, rude, boorish and bullying... When ever these event occur the NRA wackos start SCREAMING "shut the fuck up" to anyone who so much as suggests a discussion of the entire amendment or reasonable changes to laws that would make us all safer...

I'll tell you when the Supreme Court and the American people will stand up to the NRA... It will occur when a cell of Islamic wacko radicals buy up a few truck loads of AK-47s, convert them to fire automatically and take over an upper middle class/rich town and kill a couple hundred or thousand rich people... That will be the end of the NRA's stranglehold on America... Don't think it can't happen... The existing laws today (or lack there of) would allow this to happen...

We are being very naive about just how this could all go wrong for our nation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 01:43 PM

"a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state..."

This is an opinion and it is there to explain, not to set, the policy.

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

This is the policy statement and stands with/without the previous phrase.

Besides, all of the Founding Fathers were gun owners and they explain the right to private ownership of guns in various documents too numerous to count.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 01:58 PM

I doubt the NRA has the power to "prevent a full discussion of the amendment," particularly since those discussions happen every day, including here.

I've even heard TV talking heads discuss it. And Congress used to discuss gun control once in a while.

Not that the NRA is a force for good in this case, but the real problem is that few members of the public give a hefty rat's about an issue demanding more than ten seconds' thought. That's why they're not showering their elected representatives with demands for smarter gun laws OR better financial-industry regulation OR anything else that violates the ten-second rule.

Actually, I've done it. I even got a rational, if unsatisfactory, letter in reply. I should do it more.

Yeah, if Congress thought that positive action would get them re-elected, the majority would get on the ball. But most of the constituents they hear from the ones mad as hell that the liberal-communists might change *anything* and take away their freedom. Somehow.

Besides, most people have no time to email their Congressmen. They're too busy posting to Facebook, and, what's more, it's hard to write an intelligent, non-sarcastic sentence about anything serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 02:08 PM

One hard, cold fact; if they stopped making guns today, there are still over 300 million of them in circulation. Would anyone care to address that?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 02:41 PM

I just did, Kendall. Short form... we gotta start SOMEWHERE! Doing NOTHING means more guns tomorrow and more idiots having more opportunities.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 02:43 PM

Look...if you find flies in your kitchen, is your logic "there's too many, it's no use swatting ANY?"

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 03:18 PM

(1) Sart with the ban
(2) Require thiose who already have guns to hand them in
(3) Convict those who don't
(4) Very long prison sentences for possession of a firearm in public
simple!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 03:23 PM

First of all, pdq, how can you even think that a "well regulated militia is is an opinion... The Bill of Rights are not opinions... They are the legal guide lines for the body of out laws... I mean, I could say the right to bare arms is an opinion but it isn't... It's part of the Bill of Rights and tied to a "well regulated militia" or the FFs would have written it as a separate sentence ... The fact that the 2nd amendment is one sentence is what gives credence to Bill, et al's arguments...

As for the NRA having to power to prevent a discussion on gun control??? Sure, any congressman who wants to be defeated can introduce gun control legislation... That's a sure fire way of having the full force of the NRA come down on you...

BTW, I agree with Bill... If we do nothing then we will admit that we are not a civil society at all... Yes, it would be tough but it is do-able...

BTW, an average of 273 Americans will be shot today... And tomorrow... And the next day... And the next... And the............

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 03:50 PM

Bill for handguns absolutely, you cannot own a handgun in New York state without a state issued permit and it is expensive and requires approval of the local police, sheriff, FBI and a county judge ..You are photographed and fingerprinted also.
and yes I am fully licensed to carry nearly anything ... concealed or otherwise ..in a lot more than just New York state

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:01 PM

A bill on handguns won't work unless it is nationwide, Ol-ster... It needs to a federal law or some states (we all know which ones) will just play games and we will have achieved absolutely nothing...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:08 PM

absolutly right, we have the most rigid handgun laws in the US here in New York state, and one of the highest handgun murder rates . By the way all handguns are registered with the state.. Why
what criminal is going to do what us law abiding people have done, when going to an out of state gun show is a hell of a lot easier

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:09 PM

"Besides, all of the Founding Fathers were gun owners and they explain the right to private ownership of guns in various documents too numerous to count. "

Do I have to get my money back for those political science courses I did way back in the 1970's? Because I was taught that the amendments were not written by ALL the founding fathers but that ALL the founding fathers made provision for the SCOTUS to analyze the wording of all of the Constitution and that their "opinions" were to be the final word on what the words in the Constitution meant. I heard from E.J. Dionne a couple of days ago that Hamilton and Adams, both signers of the original document, argued just three years after they signed it about the degree of federal power it allowed.

To say that we know now what ALL the founding father's intended is a pretty silly claim. Is it not?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:10 PM

well my kids grew up with weapons and can shoot and know how to shoot and know their way around them. Now I want them to carry ... no one else has to follow that plan but I am comfortable with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:30 PM

AURORA, CO - Authorities in the Colorado movie theater massacre found an AR-15 rifle drum magazine Friday capable of carrying 100 rounds .

Can you imagine what that weapon would have done to a platoon of redcoats standing in formation to fire staggered volleys? Can you imagine even a single shooter also armed with to Glocks and shot gun with body armor and a Kevlar helmet losing that exchange.

Even as smart as the founding fathers were, can you say with a straight face that they anticipated such weapons and meant for them to be as easy to purchase, hide, resell and transport as they are now?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:33 PM

Yup, Ol'ster... The Mayor of New York City has made it perfectly clear that he'd be more than happy to see the Commonwealth of Virginia quit being the arms dealer for New Yorkers...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:41 PM

Somebody seems to be confuseing the Framers of the Constitution with the Founding Fathers.

The latter is a much more broad term that dates back only to early 20th Century and include a variety of people up to and including James Monroe.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:47 PM

The whole point of allowing the citizenry to "keep and bear arms" is in order to be able to form a "well regulated militia" should the need arise.

It doesn't take an English grammar professor to understand that sentence.

No, scratch that! Obviously, it does!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:48 PM

Somebody seems to be claiming to be able to read the minds of even a larger and more diverse group of dead men, while insisting that they were all in accord when any basic knowledge of the history indicates that they were not all in agreement and that they realized, as a group, probably with some disagreement, that they were not psychic soothsayers like yourself and allowed for judicial review.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:49 PM

"It doesn't take an English grammar professor to understand that sentence."

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:12 PM

The point I'm making, which I hope came across, is that a motley collection of gun owners all over the country do not and never would constitute a "well regulated militia."

The National Guard is a well regulated militia. And the military in general is a well regulated militia. So--why do we need everyone to wander around armed to the teeth, when they are more likely to shoot each other or shoot themselves in the foot than they are to be able to defend the country in times of crisis?

Don Firth

P. S. Oh, sure! If Obama tries to arrest you and send you to Guantanamo, if you have your rusty, dusty, trusty hawgleg, you can fight back.

Well, lotsa luck with that!

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:34 PM

Don... "The whole point of allowing the citizenry to "keep and bear arms" is in order to be able to form a "well regulated militia" should the need arise."

That sentence means to me that you are cool with the citizenry being allowed to keep and bear arms should the need for the use of those arms arise. Well, that is exactly what they are doing.

Don't get me wrong. I am more on your "side" than you seem to understand at times but if yer gonna cite the fact that you know what sentences written by others mean in an exact sense, read your own before you post them whilst talking down to people. It does not suit you.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:42 PM

P.S.

That motley crew may be needed to defend innocent people from the militia (National Guard) when it ain't so "well-regulated"... Kent State kinda shit eh? Or, say, defend the rights of oppressed minorities... seems to me I heard something about a group of people, mostly in the southern states, who bore arms at one time to gain better treatment and step toward equality with whites.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:42 PM

The NRA's argument is that we (private citizens) are the militia intended in the Second Amendment. If they really believe this, then they should have no problem being well-regulated. If they do not wish to be well-regulated, then they have no protection under the Second Amendment, since it clearly defines its rational as being for the purpose of a well-regulated militia.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:43 PM

Well said, A. Y'all need some GOOD gun laws. But, first, ya need some politicians with balls.