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BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 08 Aug 12 - 01:02 PM ""That would be terribly cruel to game animals. If I was one ton moose, I'd shove my antlers up yer"" How many cops use hunting rifles on patrol, and how many moose are dispatched by police specials, Mr Wildebeeste? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: olddude Date: 08 Aug 12 - 01:02 PM So how crazy do I have to be to end up on Janie's therapy couch .. I am there .. you cutie LOL love ya |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Janie Date: 08 Aug 12 - 06:23 PM Crazy enough to jump out of an airplane! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:09 PM None of my clients, to the best of my knowledge, ever jumped out airplanes... I'd get a car full once a month straight outta a state mental hospital that was more like a prison... It was all part of de-institutionalization (read my lips, cuts in funding for mental health)... I mean, some severely messed up people being released and still be released because of money??? And these folks have all but unfettered access to some very dangerous weapons??? Beam me up, Scotty... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Janie Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:46 PM but olddude did, just a few days ago....and I apologize for the thread drift. Bill D for president! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Aug 12 - 08:07 PM No, BillD for benevolent dictator... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bill D Date: 08 Aug 12 - 10:56 PM ummmm... "if nominated, I will not run...if elected, I will not serve." They make you lisen to boring briefings and wake you up at night. Now..Emperor of the Universe? That's different.
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Stu Date: 09 Aug 12 - 04:03 AM Interesting that the slaughter of Sikhs hasn't stirred the same horror that Aurora did. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 09 Aug 12 - 06:22 AM I imagine that for one, it's much more uncomfortable to have a right wing extremist who represents a strong , growing and violent ideology. Not so easily dismissed as the lone 'whacked out guy'. Article |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bobert Date: 09 Aug 12 - 08:19 AM Good article, Peter... The Souther Poverty Law Center which tracks right winged hate groups says the number of such groups has tripled over the last 3 1/2 years... Hmmmmmmmm??? Same period of time that we have had a black president... But let's get serious here... The Republican Party has all but cheered this development... When people were allowed to yell "hang him" in regards to Barak Obama at Sarah Palin rallies and not called on it by the party that sent out a strong message that hate was just okay with them... That was irresponsible... Then you had Allen West claiming that that most of the Democrats in the House of Representatives were communists... And the "Hell no, we won't"... And, and... No, I'm not putting all this on the Repubs but I am putting their lack of courage and tacit approval on them... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Greg F. Date: 09 Aug 12 - 08:45 AM Interesting that the slaughter of Sikhs hasn't stirred the same horror that Aurora did. Hey, its not like they were white folks, Jack, even in the "post-racist" U.S. of A. the wingnuts keep prating about. Besides, they're all probably secret Muslims anyway. Didn't you see the towels they wear on their heads? That'll show 'em to try imposing sharia law on us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 09 Aug 12 - 09:21 AM From where I sit, the outrage is comparable but much of the emotion has been drained off by two weeks of thinking about the other guy. And since he's still alive, there will be more attention directed to him. BTW, according to CNN, white supremacist punk-rock is big, really big, in America's hinterlands. Kids without the attention span to read a hate leaflet groove to the violent lyrics, then head for the website. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 09 Aug 12 - 09:29 AM I doubt it's that cynical, as well as the uncomfortable notion society has allowed these hate groups to blossom, there's the notion this attack not being as seemingly 'random' as the cinema shooting and certainly less of the feeling that there would have been a chance of one self (or friends/family) running the risk of meeting a shooter like that. Unless one is a Sikh ofcourse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Aug 12 - 02:25 PM In the UK news about anything that matters has been squeezed out of the papers, or at least way back inside, by the hysteria about the Olympics. If Peter Laban's suggestion about white people feeling less personally at risk when far right white terrorists are involved is true, they might do well to reflect that neither Anders Breivik nor Tim McVeigh particularly targetted ethnic minorities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: olddude Date: 09 Aug 12 - 04:39 PM Janie you busted me, I am DB Cooper !! sorry thread drift, go back to arguing :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: gnu Date: 09 Aug 12 - 06:16 PM "... white supremacist punk-rock is big, really big, in America's hinterlands." Rich people do not recruit paid killers on Ivy League campuses as that would not be cost effective. Besides, the rich kids couldn't tell which way is east on a sunny morning and couldn't hit the side of a barn from 50 feet with a load of SSG and an 18 inch open cylinder. Yes, that was kinda condescending wasn't it? But, only us gun nuts will understand. That's all the more reason for us gun nuts to stand up and grab the bullshit by the horns and get the job done. Fact is, as I have said COUNTLESS times in these ENDLESS and USELESS threads, the anti-gun nuts are shooting themselves AND THE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS WHO WANT CHANGE in the foot because they just don't understand all of the issues. Jumping up and down and saying guns kill people is stunned as me arse but they still do it... and it gets them nowhere and fucks up the efforts of responsible gun owners who are trying to get SOMEwhere. THIS thread (and allll of the rest of the threads over the yearssss here at Mudcat) is a microcosm of what goes on in the US on a national basis with regard to the gun PROBLEMS and legislation which CAN solve most of these problems. BIG PROBLEMS. But, the biggest problem that has to be overcome in moving forward is to get the anti-gun nuts to get themselves educated and get themselves organised so that they don't sound like a bunch of just plain stunned as me arse pie-in-the-sky little school girls in a fuckin beauty pageant wishing for world peace. There. I said it. Smarten the fuck up. Get educated. Get organized. Quit bitching and moaning. Get the job done. If you ain't got the smarts or the balls to do it... get the fuck out of the way and stop thwarting the efforts of responsible gun owners to get the job done... they are on YOUR side and you haven't done anything realistic to get your job done or to help responsible gun owners get your job done. It ain't fuckin rocket science. The only reason that gun laws in the US have not been revised to address these BIG problems in the last thirty years is directly attributable to the anti-gun nuts. Like I said, ya can't just jump up and down and say guns kill people. Ya just CAN'T. And don't give me that horse shit about the $NRA$. If your government is that corrupt, you NEED your guns. That ain't rocket science either, is it? Don't tell me that an organized effort by intelligent people cannot defeat the gun lobby. If you say it, you are by no means intelligent or you have no balls or both. One last thing. I been shootin since I was 5 years old (read alll the threadssss I have posted to). That's 50 years. I am appalled by the gun crimes. BUT, if I had to choose between the gun nuts and the anti-gun nuts right this very minute... praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Until you anti-gun nuts get educated, get organised and get a fuckin brain in yer collective heads the gun nuts are gonna prevail and that don't sit well with responsible gun owners like me. Come on eh? Get serious, get educated, get real, get organised, get the fuckin job done... or at least get out of the fuckin way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack Campin Date: 09 Aug 12 - 06:48 PM an organized effort by intelligent people cannot defeat the gun lobby It can't. The only thing that will defeat it is a massive cultural shift - a general acceptance by the American public (NOT just the intelligentsia) that anybody who buys a gun and keeps it at home, buying ammo for it, training with it, planning all the time for how to kill people and animals with it, is sick, despicable and disgusting. Down there with the worst kind of sexual perverts. This is not a matter of intellectual judgment. What we need is for people to wake up and get a sense of moral revulsion. Law is a product of culture, it doesn't determine it. It's a complete waste of effort trying to change American gun law directly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 09 Aug 12 - 08:09 PM Jack is probably right. Meanwhile, a CNN poll reports that 13% of Americans want *no* restrictions on guns whatsoever. 37% want "minimal restrictions." 10% want guns outlawed. 40% want "major restrictions." The figures are essentially unchanged from a year ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: gnu Date: 09 Aug 12 - 08:26 PM I rest my case. FIRST post in respose... partially quoted out of context and told that I don't know what I am talking about and that the only solution is total acceptance that anyone who owns a gun is, and I quote, "...sick, despicable and disgusting." Yeah, right. You are the reason the NRA will win. What the fuck did you NOT read in my post? I thought I made it VERY clear. Intelligent and educated people CAN prevail but that kinda shit makes it difficult for any progress to be made. If you stop... Ohhh, fuck it. So many threads. So much discussion in every nook and cranny of the US and around the world. So many self-righteous do-gooders who can't even take the time to actually think about what someone else tries to explain to them in SIMPLE terms... well, then yer fucked. Unfortunately, as long as you keep fucking yerself, yer allowing horrible gun crimes to continue... nay, ABETTING these crimes. Give yer head(s) a shake and see if they rattle. And stop acting like children. The NRA doesn't act like children. THAT is why they are besting you. You anti-gun nuts have nobody to blame but yourselves. Take yer holier than thou unsubstantiated bullshit and shove it where the sun don't shine. Join responsible gun owners in the quest for good gun laws or shut the fuck up. On accounta we fear millions (???) of you "supposedly sane" nutcases far more than we fear ONE insane nutcase with a gun (that YOU allowed him to have according to your OWN arguements) in a theatre. Yes... we do... I thought I made that clear when I said anti-gun nuts were thwarting legislation that would be in their best interests. Goodness gracious! What the hell am I doing on yet another gun thread? I must be stunned as me arse trying to talk common sense to those with none caused by their preoccupation with... ahem... gnightgnu PS.. don't bother to ask, even by PM. Just do the right thing and stop acting like children, or shut the fuck up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: olddude Date: 10 Aug 12 - 01:09 PM Gnu, you are absolutely right. No one wants sensible gun laws then those of us who own the things and carry. It is the exact reason we own them and carry them, because we don't have sensible gun laws without all the loopholes. So as long as it is very easy for someone to commit terrible crimes like in Colorado. Those of us that are trained will, the best that we can, prevent another if we are around and protect our kids that just want to go to a damn movie without a nut fuck trying to blow them away. And me, my youngest is home for a visit, I took her out and she cut a clover leaf with my glock. Which is now hers. Her response, you must have did the trigger job ... sweet |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bill D Date: 10 Aug 12 - 02:17 PM "If your government is that corrupt, you NEED your guns. That ain't rocket science either, is it?" Sorry, but that sounds like just a slogan rather than logic, to me. How's that working out around the world where they have corrupt governments? Will "rocket science" tell you exactly who & what to USE those guns on? Is the alternative to "keeping your government from being corrupt enough to be a problem" just allowing crazy, angry idiots to keep shooting up theaters and schools? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: gnu Date: 10 Aug 12 - 08:11 PM Bill D... whoa there buddy. yer startin ta sound like "them". "Sorry, but that sounds like just a slogan rather than logic, to me. How's that working out around the world where they have corrupt governments?" Slogan? Don't sound like a slogan to me. That is in response to the anti-gun nuts saying that the NRA owns the government and, THEREBY, the anti-gun nuts. If the NRA is bad, get rid of it... oh, yeah, the anti's can't because even tho they far outnumber the NRA they are fuckin pussies who couldn't organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a hand full of hundred dollar bills and a half dozen drunk sailors... give me a fuckin break eh! As far as corrupt governments around the world... seems to me ther is a whole lotta shooting goin on at this very moment. Let's see... Egypt, Libya, Syria... dictators being ousted every day lately... by the barrel of a gun. Is that a bad thing, Bill? "Will "rocket science" tell you exactly who & what to USE those guns on?" No. Don't need it. Got common sense. I thought that was common sense??? "Is the alternative to "keeping your government from being corrupt enough to be a problem" just allowing crazy, angry idiots to keep shooting up theaters and schools?" What? I just dunno what the question or the implicatiion is. Is there not a double negative in there that I don't understand when I try to understand what I think you might have asked/said/offered/proffered/whateverthefuck? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: John P Date: 10 Aug 12 - 11:22 PM Those of us that are trained will, the best that we can, prevent another if we are around and protect our kids . . . I'd love it if the only people who had guns were people who were trained to use them. Here's the gun laws I would like to see. I don't think it makes me an anti-gun nut or an idiot: Gun owners should have to have extensive training and need a license in order to own any type of gun. Extensive background checks for anyone applying for gun license. Even more extensive background checks for anyone applying for a concealed-carry permit. The permit should have to be renewed every year, with a new background check. No pertinent information about someone's mental stability should be off limits. You should have to show a reason for carrying a concealed weapon, and "self protection" shouldn't be sufficient reason. My preference would be for no concealed carry at all. Why should I have to put up with a bunch of yahoos with guns in their pockets? (I'm not saying all gun owners are yahoos. I'm saying that any yahoo can get a concealed-carry permit and I think that's really dumb). If your gun falls into the hands of a child, you lose the right to own a gun and you go to jail for a really long time. No guns at all within a mile of a school, even if that's where your house is. Live somewhere else. No guns in public parks. No guns on public transportation. Being in possession of a gun while drunk should cause you to lose your gun license. Any violently threatening remark should cause you to lose your gun license. Membership in a hate group should cause you lose your gun license. Gun shows should be illegal. A private individual selling a gun to another private individual should be illegal. All drugs should be legal. Let's take away one of the main reasons for gang violence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: John P Date: 10 Aug 12 - 11:34 PM Jumping up and down and saying guns kill people is stunned as me arse but they still do it... Are you saying that guns shoot flowers that send pretty scents wafting gently into the nostrils of the targets? Perhaps you are saying that none of the recent murderous whackos used guns to commit their murders? How many would have died had the guy in Colorado walked into that theater with a chair? Ok, even if he had a machete? One of the reasons the "anti-gun nuts" get sort of riled up is because of the type of insulting comments you make. You come across as irrational, which is not what you want people thinking about you while you are advocating gun ownership. The anger and derogative speech you are displaying on this topic should probably be taken into account while we are deciding whether or not to issue you a gun license. If you can't keep your cool, you shouldn't own a gun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: bobad Date: 14 Aug 12 - 08:17 AM Good thing this guy didn't have his piece: Canadians mock U.S. tourist who complained about not being able to carry a gun |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bill D Date: 14 Aug 12 - 01:00 PM You note he thanked "the lord Jesus Christ" that he didn't get assaulted by those scary folks....who were only suggesting he attend the rodeo. I do wonder what THEY would have said if he had had a weapon! "Help...the paranoids are after me!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Stu Date: 14 Aug 12 - 01:14 PM Poor, scared chap. Best not let him come here to the UK or Ireland, he'd be blasting everything in sight when the banter starts. There's a man that needs help, lost all sense of perspective and is obviously very frightened and you've let him have a gun. Stone the crows. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: gnu Date: 14 Aug 12 - 04:34 PM John P... "Are you saying that guns shoot flowers that send pretty scents wafting gently into the nostrils of the targets?" Ahhhh, are you on drugs? "Perhaps you are saying that none of the recent murderous whackos used guns to commit their murders?" Ahhhh, you really shouldn't take drugs that mess up your mind that badly. "How many would have died had the guy in Colorado walked into that theater with a chair?" Seriously, give up the drugs eh. "Ok, even if he had a machete?" I hope you are not paying a lot for your drugs. "One of the reasons the "anti-gun nuts" get sort of riled up is because of the type of insulting comments you make. You come across as irrational, which is not what you want people thinking about you while you are advocating gun ownership. The anger and derogative speech you are displaying on this topic should probably be taken into account while we are deciding whether or not to issue you a gun license. If you can't keep your cool, you shouldn't own a gun." You really should read ALL my posts on ALL the gun threads OR at least on this thread. Fact is, most antis just keep posting the same old bullshit (like you just did) and never get to work. It's people like YOU that I aim my "language" at BECAUSE talking nice and logical did not work for me in the past. Insulting comments? Bullshit... those comments are the truth and if you are too pussy to take it you deserve what you get. To reiterate... stop being such pussies and wasting your and everyone else's time and DO something to get the job done or shut the fuck up. Am I talkin to a fuckin wall? I tell you how you are fuckin up and why, thereby, the NRA is winning. I tell you how to defeat them. Yet, you do the EXACT SAME THING YET AGAIN by the post I quote that allows the NRA to beat your ass. My "anger and derogative speech" are not the problem... YOU are the problem. Only YOU can fix that problem and shittin on me because I am pissed about you pussies moanin and whinin and not gettin the job done is just... stunned as me arse. Oh, yeah... YOU deciding if I can own a gun? Fuck you. You can't even get yer shit together and take on the NRA. Like I'd want you backin me up in a fight??? or allow YOU to tell me if I can have a gun? I might be a little abrasive in my language and demeanour when I gotta put up with bullshit but you can't even see that I am on your side. THAT tells me a lot about YOUR intelligence and demeanour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack Campin Date: 15 Aug 12 - 03:53 PM History repeats itself, first as tragedy, secondly as farce: Reno concealed gun carrier shoots himself in the bum in a cinema |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don Firth Date: 15 Aug 12 - 05:51 PM The fact that he was carrying the gun in his pocket rather than in a reliable holster, and that obviously the safety was off or it would not have discharged accidentally (which is what the safety is there to prevent), more than amply demonstrates that the fellow was a couple of Chicken McNuggets short of a Happy Meal. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:02 PM YOU NARE A SICK COUNTRY |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bill D Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:12 PM YOU NARE AN ANONYMOUS TROLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,999 Date: 15 Aug 12 - 11:56 PM What does NARE mean? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don Firth Date: 16 Aug 12 - 02:36 AM I though Nare was a product that women used to remove hair on their legs.... Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: John P Date: 16 Aug 12 - 09:41 AM I'd like to get people's ideas about the definition of "responsible gun owner". I hear lots of people saying responsible gun owners want or believe this or that, and it strikes me that if we could come up with a reasonable definition we might be able to have a better discussion about what should or shouldn't be illegal. I posted a list of laws I'd like to see enacted, but haven't seen any responses to them. Maybe we should take them one at a time. gnu, olddude, do you think that having thorough training is part of the definition of being a responsible gun owner? Should we require it? Taken from the other side, is it irresponsible to not require gun owners to be trained in the safe use of guns? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Megan L Date: 16 Aug 12 - 09:59 AM Matthew 26:52 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Bill D Date: 16 Aug 12 - 11:43 AM John P. ..I would happily vote for almost all of your proposals, except for amending those which implicitly contradict others: IF someone passes all the stringent requirements and need to have a carry permit, it is not reasonable to say: "No guns at all within a mile of a school," "No guns in public parks." "No guns on public transportation." So... amendments to cover those situations. And...hmmm... ALL drugs should be legal? No...sorry. Maybe pot, on a 2 year test basis....then we'll discuss others. But several illegal drugs do such violent thing to body & mind that even reducing crime may not justify it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,olddude Date: 16 Aug 12 - 11:50 AM John the training aspect is a sore subject to me ... It all depends on the state. some states it is nothing more than a 2 hour class. Other states like mine it is far more substantial. Many states do not require anything more than a criminal background check. Mine will also look at the mental health of the person requiring or at least they say they do. That is why there really needs to be a federal standard ...some states it is so easy and others it is so hard .. Me I think at least 100 hours on the range min would be a good requirement with a certified instructor just to make sure people really know how to control and handle a weapon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Stu Date: 16 Aug 12 - 12:40 PM I'm starting a campaign for people to be allowed to carry big fuckoff knives (like a machete or a Gurkha's), halberds, pikestaffs, knives like wot Rambo has, saxon battle-axes, flicknives, maces and any type of sword. They are to be allowed in cinemas, restaurants and boozers or anywhere else people congregate for reasons social, commercial, political or religious. To be allowed to carry one of these deadly weapons you need two things: 1) Tell the bloke behind the desk you're not mad, a loony or a reet nutter and he'll give you a piece of paper confirming this. 2) Have access to an internet connection and credit (to purchase said deadly weapon with). Now this might seem a tad irresponsible, but hear me out. Firstly, remember that claymore swords don't kill people, people with claymore swords do. It's all fine and dandy blaming the person, but if the bloke behind the desk thinks they're all right, not schizophrenic, delusional (politicians and religious types exempt), insane, have hairy palms or are bipolar, clinically depressed or even a bit glum (cos those people are mad, right?) then that means everything is tickety-boo. Only us happy, sane people will be allowed to carry a Ninja sword (we know who were don't we?). In 1511, Henry VIII (a king of England) banned games (such as football) which interfered with archery practice, which commoners (that's us) were obliged by law to attend every Sunday. This law has never been repealed (true). It was put on the statute books so should those pesky French get too leery and attempt another invasion this time we would be ready for the buggers. Obviously we can't all carry longbows to defend ourselves against the ever-looming threat of French invasion (I do own one though, a Bickerstaffe) as it isn't practical, so I think it's safe to assume this law will let us carry sharp or pointy things about instead for our defence; in all honesty, the law obviously allows that and to deny ordinary citizens that right is unEnglish, undemocratic and downright dangerous in this day and age. I mean, there are people out there who ALREADY HAVE SHARP, POINTY THINGS. Scary or WHAT!!!!! We need protection and the peelers don't have the time (or inclination) to protect us all so let's honour Henry VIII (an Anglo-Welsh King born in Sarf London) and if you don't you obviously don't care about our country you effin' commie traitor . . . (deep breaths, calm down, think of nice things like oranges). Apologies. Got a bit heated there. So it's only fair we should be allowed to carry lethal, sharp weapons where we want, and if out broadsword take out the eye of the lady behind us in the flicks when we sit down (having not secured it properly - we're only human you know), then tough titties, at least she's free! Chop off a kiddie's ear with a trailing sabre? Unlucky - it was an accident and it would have happened had we not been carrying our rapier. Fools! We'll show the soft sods. We need protection from the sword-wielding madmen besieging our towns, running rampant down our city streets or even peeing in our bogs. The king that outlawed our main religion, destroyed a wodge of our written heritage and demolished thousand-year-old monasteries says we should be armed as a people, so there. It is written. Now that's 21st Century freedom we're talking about! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,999 Date: 16 Aug 12 - 12:50 PM After "deep breaths, calm down, think of nice things like oranges" I thought you were going to break into the song entitled 'Suzanne'. I was going to ask you for one of the sharp and pointy implements and directions for which way is east. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Aug 12 - 01:53 PM John, you said you'd like to know the definition of a "responsible gun owner"? Well, it seems obvious to me. A responsible gun owner, like a responsible automobile owner, is someone who has the sense not to use his gun or car (or anything else he owns) in an irresponsible and/or unlawful or harmful manner. Period. And most gun owner and car owners, by that definition, are responsible people most of the time. My Uncle Bill, for example, was a responsible gun owner. He always had quite an interest in guns, in target practice, and in duck hunting. He always owned a few guns. He enjoyed them as precision and historical instruments (appreciating the craft that went into making them, the level of quality of different ones, the history of that craft, etc). He enjoyed being a good marksman. He enjoyed hunting. He lived in the country, and like many other rural people back then (and still now), he was used to being around guns a certain amount. They would not have struck him as an unusual thing to have, because when he was growing up they weren't an unusual thing to have when you lived on farms or in the country. These were long guns, not handguns. He was a completely gentle and harmless person, patient and tolerant, kind, responsible, law-abiding, not a person who ever committed a violent act against another person in his entire adult life. He was a really nice man. He kept his guns responsibly and safely, made sure that they were not loaded or in any way accessible to his children (2 daughters), and he handled them with the utmost care at all times to avoid endangering himself and others. A good number of ducks met their end because of my Uncle's interest in guns, and I'm sorry for the ducks, but I can't fault him for being a duck hunter. It's not a crime. My Uncle eventually passed away having never once misused a gun or broken the law with a gun. There are a great many other people like my Uncle living quietly all over the place. You don't hear about them on the "News" (the entertainment, fear, and propaganda network)....because they didn't shoot anyone. Those are responsible gun owners. They probably outnumber irresponsible gun owners by about 5,000 to 1...but the only people you will ever hear about on the "News" are the few unstable and disturbed individuals and the people in drug gangs who go out and commit a violent crime. Are there some legal improvements that could be made to increase public safety? Sure. And people here have suggested quite a number of them...but demonizing gun owners in general and stereotyping them in a perceived group together as "gun nuts" does not lead to any kind of useful public discussion...and it reinforces conservative organizations like the NRA by making them think that "the liberals" are all just a bunch of crazy people, extreme control freaks suffering from an obsessive complex of some kind. When you stereotype them...they stereotype you! This doesn't help anyone. I say this AS someone who is definitely a liberal, and I always have been. But I'm not a control freak over other people's lives and over their lifestyle choices and their hobbies. If they don't break the laws and if they don't harm anyone, I have no quarrel with them...nor do I expect them to "be like me or see like me". (line from Bob Dylan in the song "All I Really Want To Do") |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 16 Aug 12 - 04:38 PM > No guns within a mile of a school. Impossible. That way a registered gun owner could be arrested and convicted even if he had no idea he was within a mile of a school. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: gnu Date: 16 Aug 12 - 06:26 PM "gnu, olddude, do you think that having thorough training is part of the definition of being a responsible gun owner? Should we require it? Taken from the other side, is it irresponsible to not require gun owners to be trained in the safe use of guns?" Sorry, bud but I gotta take an "Oh, fuck me, here we go again." on this one. And, the subsequent posts.. gee whilikers eh??? It's been done a thousand times and you antis just keep yappin and you just keep doin nothin... squat... shit about it. I challenge any of you to start an org to get something done. I'll be an advisor... Dan will probably volunteer likewise... there are many RESPONSIBLE gun owners here who don't need a fucking definition of who they are to help out getting the problem solved. Just seems nobody wants to do anything more than ween about it and shit on responsible gun owners... and you had better think about that before any of you say you are just shitting on irresponsible gun owners because, if you do, you haven't understood any of my posts... or even READ them. I gotta try to just leave this thread before my head explodes... BUT before I do TRY... no guns allowed to be stored or carried within a mile of a school or in public parks or on public transportation??? That is way beyond a "Fuck me, are you serious?" Do you think for one minute the NRA can't shut you down / shit all over you for that? And not just because of what Lighter so aptly stated. Sorry for being so upset and venting but I have been trying to educate people on both sides of this issue here in Mudcat for ten years or so and at least ten years before that in my area. It's a serious problem that will get worse but proposing illogical and counter-productive gun laws will NEVER EVER fly. If any of you ever read back through my and others' posting history on this subject you will come to understand that there are good gun laws and bad gun laws. A buddy of mine lost his head over a bad gun law. Lost his head. A guy cut off his head with a sword. I shant explain... look it up... it's "in the threads". The NRA is not more powerful than logic so don't spew illogical crap. It hasn't worked yet. Try something reasonable. One last time... stop weening and do something about the problem. This continuous bullshit is enough to make my head explode. gnightgnu |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: John P Date: 16 Aug 12 - 11:16 PM So, I'll put in the "no training needed" column. How does that keep idiots from doing ignorant things with guns? Why shouldn't we take steps to help protect ourselves from people who are carrying deadly implements without knowing how to use them? Why in the world should I start an organization? Should I also start one to stop war, stop capitalism, stop poverty, stop prohibition, stop money in politics, stop discrimination? What's wrong with talking about a problem and exploring the issues? Speaking of which, does it fit within your definition of a responsible gun owner to allow children to have unsupervised access to a gun? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: gnu Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:34 AM "So, I'll put in the "no training needed" column." The first words out of your mouth are, simply, inane and the last words are worse. Dunno why I bothered to open this thread again except that I now know fer sure I needn't bother. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: John P Date: 17 Aug 12 - 09:44 AM olddude, gnu seems unable to do anything other than fulminate. Would you be willing to comment on what it means to be a responsible gun owner and whether or not we should have laws that require responsibility? I've heard what you've had to say about yourself on the subject, and if all gun owners were like you I'd sleep better at night. What I'm interested in exploring is what, if anything, to do about the gun owners who are not like you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: olddude Date: 17 Aug 12 - 10:43 AM John Handgun laws are a mish mosh in the US all governed by state law. Without a federal carry standard it will be all over the place. I grew up with guns, I could shoot before I could ride a bike. One thing you never did in our house was go near the "LOCKED" gun case. Like my dad I pull the bolts out of the weapons (rifles) and for handguns I pull the slides and lock them all in a safe. No kid will ever get a firearm in my house. Some states require a handgun to be locked up when not carried. Other states OH well. The definition of responsible is more of common sense ... the first rule of all guns is "treat all guns like they are always loaded" Second is never point at anything you do not wish to destroy. So many injuries have been caused by "unloaded gun" To hunt in pretty much any state requires a safety course. If one is going to do concealed carry, the standard of safety must be much higher than that of hunting. Sadly that is not the case in many states so a federal standard should be made |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: olddude Date: 17 Aug 12 - 10:50 AM by the way, in every state, every police officer is required to qualify on the range with their weapon once a year to prove they are proficient with it and that safety is ensured. A private citizen who carries is more or less a defacto police officer. One should have to maintain their proficiency to continue to carry in public I think |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Jack Campin Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:02 AM I was amazed by one comment in this: Science Daily on robots for defusing pipe bombs Thousands of pipe bombs are made each year, and thousands of pipe bomb threats are called into local police and FBI authorities across the country. I was near one in Pittsburgh in 1976 - it was in the storage tank of a gas station, with two other gas stations on the same intersection. The fourth corner was a multistorey block of sheltered housing for old Jewish people, and I was 50 yards away. If it it had gone off, I and the old Jews would have gone up in the biggest fireball America had seen since Pearl Harbor. It was found and defused; it was part of an extortion campaign and a few other gas stations around the city were targeted. I thought at the time that that was a wildly aberrant event. But it seems it's absolutely routine, something virtually every urban police force would expect to deal with annually. Try defending against that with a concealed pistol. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun.... From: Don Firth Date: 17 Aug 12 - 02:27 PM "Try defending against that with a concealed pistol." I'm sorry, Jack, but that doesn't compute. That makes as much sense as opposing fly swatters because they're ineffective against nuclear bombs. I'm very much for reasonable and intelligent gun laws and stringent requirements that those who wish to own guns must—as a precondition to purchase—be trained in their use and abuse, and then pass periodic examinations. With the millions of firearms already out and about, the genie is out of the bottle. So especially those who feel it necessary to carry a weapon should be required by law to demonstrate knowledge of proper use and abuse, and competence. Don Firth |
