BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 09:29 AM

What is my "story" that "most Americans" have told you "ain't workin'" for them?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:20 AM

Bugger! Agreeing with Mither again.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:48 AM

His comments raise two issues:

First, "Legitimate" rape. I think he was speaking not
about the legitimacy (if there is such a thing) of rape,
but the legitimacy or truthfulness of the report. This
distinction doesn't get Akin out of trouble, though. Because
the comment, however you phrase it, reveals more than a
casual belief that many rape reports are untrue. I don't
doubt that there are SOME false rape reports, but to assume
that a significant portion of them are false sounds to me
like misogyny.

The other, or "medical", half of the statement reveals either abysmal
ignorance or conscious falsehood, again based on misogyny.

He says "doctors have told him". What kind of "doctors"?
Doctors of podiatry? Doctors of Theology? Doctors of
Veterinary Medicine? Doctors of Mechanical Engineering? Witch doctors?

Even if his alleged informants are doctors of medicine,
the plural term "doctors" may mean that somewhere in the United States (or maybe in the world) there are as many as two of them
who are so ignorant or careless or malevolent as to tell him that.

All of the above possibilities assume that Akin himself isn't just
issuing a rape report without legitimacy.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 11:29 AM

He's officially asked for "forgiveness."

It was just a case of having "used the wrong words."



http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-todd-akin-releases-tv-ad-asking-for-forgiveness-20120821,0,2415111.story

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 12:34 PM

His use of the term "legitimate" aside, and taken as merely an ignorant lack of understanding of the English language, what I find more egregious is the comment in the next part of his statement that (and this isn't a direct quote, although it's easy enough to find) rape certainly deserves punishment, but it is the rapist and not the unborn child who should be punished (by, I assume, being aborted).

The Republican Party, from Mr. Romney on down, is now condemning his statement in very harsh terms, and they have urged his to abandon his Senate candidacy. One cannot say - although one can certainly speculate - if this is because of the universal reaction to his statement or actual feelings on their part.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 12:44 PM

Musket....I dont agree with what Mr Akin said, even if he did "mispeak".

Neither do I think thatMr Akin's words were the result of "liberals".
What sort of reasoning produced that conclusion?.....The sort that Richard can agree with?   :0)

I was in fact just making the point that large numbers of "liberals" appear to be very easily manipulated by the media and politicians.

Conservatives on the other hand tend to think for themselves tho' they are sometimes quite wrong IMO.

See, it is possible to compose a post without being personal or acting like a thug.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 12:47 PM

I doubt its actual feelings Art as the GOP platform has a plank endorsing the "personhood" legislation. I'll believe they have changed when they withdraw the plank.


Spaw

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:07 PM

It always puzzles me why people who are so obsessed by "rights". can so easily ignore the "right to life" of an unborn child.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:13 PM

It always puzzles me that people who are obsessed by the "rights" of an unborn child honestly believe that this means that a raped 12-year-old should be required to carry that fetus to term in order to uphold these "rights".

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 02:01 PM

With Artbrooks. Morning after pill.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 02:09 PM

It's pretty clear from reading the news reports about Akin's supposed "foot in mouth" disease that what he meant by "legitimate rape" was actual forcible rape—no consent on the woman's part. In other words, "If she was really raped, and was not a cooperative partner in the act."

But where Akin really blew it was when he displayed his abysmal ignorance of the reproductive process. Too bad he didn't go to a school where sex education was part of the health education classes. It's basic!

Either that, or he knows better and was simply lying through his pearly whites.

By the way, he's been trying to peddle this anti-abortion line about a woman not getting pregnant if she actually was raped for at least twenty years. But this was the first time he's been jumped on for it in the nation news.

The man is either a liar or a fool!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 03:01 PM

"Conservatives on the other hand tend to think for themselves..."

Pardon me while I try...unsuccessfully... to stifle a guffaw!

You mean like Rush's 'dittoheads'? Or the myriads who just nod in agreement at whatever their preachers tell them about morality, evolution and Obama's birth?

C'mon, Ake... gimme a break. I am 73, and grew up in **Kansas**, and I used to TEACH conservative kids in Philosophy 101 classes. It was all I could do to even make many of them comprehend what 'thinking for themselves' was about!
If you mean that 'being stubbornly unmoved' was similar to 'thinking for themselves', then yeah...maybe so.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 03:18 PM

What the fuck..........Every once in awhile it rushes over me in a torrent that just brings anger and disgust.   What is it?

It is the amazing fact that we have travelled backward in time for a century and are being forced to debate this utter and complete crap yet again. Also we're fighting the dumbass creationist types! What's the deal here?

The deal is religion. Fuck a bunch of religion. Fuck EVERY religion. If you believe a zygote or a blob of tissue, has rights past the mother's right over her own body.....FUCK YOU and EVERYBODY WHO AGREES WITH YOU.

After they're born I can't help but notice that many of those same assholes could care less about the quality of life they lead.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:22 PM

Damn - agreeing with Spaw too.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:29 PM

If you are talking to me Catspaw, I'm happy to say that I am not in the "rights for all" brigade.

The people with the dilemma are those who preach rights for all, yet deny the right to life to an innocent living human being.

Or do you believe that a foetus is not a living thing? Only a piece of gristle?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:47 PM

who said anything about gristle?

Ake in the land of the thistle
Says watch out for the rights of gristle
Please take a bit o' care
It could become Roger Whittaker
With a beard and a merry whistle

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 05:16 PM

It isn't human....its gristle if that misnomer covers a tissue sample. Whatever it is, zygote or gristle, it has no rights in my opinion and it certainly does not have rights to make a choice for the mother.

I don't give half a shit what it may become or who. Somebody else would fill that void from people like you or me or MLK or Einstein or Woody or anybody. Life would go on in some way with someone different finding the part that blob might have played.

Certainly I am happy that Karen's mom didn't abort of the bio-moms of my two adopted sons but if they had, I would still have been dooddling along the road of life as would they had I never been here. To me the "great person" argument is bogus. Maybe the blob is a rapist or a murderer or a Hitler............


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 06:01 PM

"...do you believe that a foetus is not a living thing?"

It is different than a zygote. The reason medical people USE different words is to denote different status. A fetus describes a state BEYOND a simple bunch of cells. It is certainly not YET a 'child' as Akin wishes to call it.

Now.... those who wish to believe that a group of cells which are not able to live on their own has a 'soul', may do so... but that is simply a belief. Many zygotes, because of problems, never make it to the fetal stage, and some fetuses never make it to 'baby' stage. Those who wish to explain this by inserting a 'god' into this chain of events must still recognize that is is a belief, and they must understand that others may not agree! They have NO right to legislate something that is based on one religious position.

We ALL know that miscarriages...or abortions... are not enjoyable or desired situations, but sometimes reason demands considering whether that zygote needs to develop. Rape, incest, health and disturbed fetal development can suggest that we ought to use modern medical means to seek sensible solutions. Sadly, this can mean even terminating a desired pregnancy. You think I am just pontificating? Look up "triploidism"... which we had to confront 24 years ago.... it HURT... but there was zero chance of survival.

People MUST be free to make that choice with the aid of qualified physicians and their own conscience.

Bible waving conservative politicians should **NOT** be allowed to vote on it! And it's time Akin and others of his ilk understood that.
We thought that it was settled in Roe v. Wade in 1973 when the Supreme Court agreed that it was a basic right to make that decision... it now needs to be defined as stare decisis "settled law".

Akin and Ryan and all right-wing politicians need to shut UP and deal with real issues!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 06:10 PM

Thank you Bill......That's what I meant but I've just had it. I know anger is never a great route but now and again my tolerance and patience levels hit flood stage..............


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 06:43 PM

awww... well, Take a breather... tell 'em I said it was ok.. ;>)... there was a wee bit of MY reaching my limit of reasonable debate in that post. I really try to stay on my ...ahem.. renowned philosophical coherence... but I agree... it gets tedious when idiots spew nonsense disguised as 'revealed truth'.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 07:00 PM

Roger Whittaker with his beard and merry whistle



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmDZgy3HpdU

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: gnu
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 07:47 PM

Big Al... I`ll bet he gets a lotta pussy with a tongue like that.

I know it`s a stunned thing to do but I`ll add my two cents to the discussion re abortion. What Spaw said, in spades, up yer ass with a wire fuckin brush you uncompassionate, illogical, holier than thou

I think that`s enough.

Oh except for... it ain`t none a yer fuckin business anyway ya self-important control-freaks. Yer seriously fucked up. Your god help you if you are ever in trouble and someone like Spaw isn`t there to show some compassion to you. How do youse sleep at mightÉ

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: gnu
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 07:48 PM

night with a question mark.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 07:53 PM

Yo, Spawz...

I think you need to send the Cletus and the Reg Boys over to have a little talk with Congressman Aiken...

Looking forward to reading how things went...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 08:44 PM

Do you believe a "seed" the same as a "watermelon"? That an "acorn" the same as an "oak tree"? That an "egg" is indistinguishable from a "chicken"? Do those who believe that zygotes and non-viable fetuses are "children" organize church funerals for miscarriages?

If not, why not?

According to the 2012 GOP Platform, a zygote or non-viable fetus (which has no free will by anyone's definition) always outvotes the pregnant girl or woman who, by any religious definition, *does* have free will and is *made free by God to use it*. And on top of that, the GOP demands a Constitutional Amendment that will say say so (though not, obviously, in quite those words).

If you think abortions are sinful, no law says you have to have one! Either way, the decision falls to the woman involved, who is a person with the power to feel, reason, and act. She is not a *potential* person, with no power to reason or act (or even to feel at an early stage), any more than an egg is a chicken or caviar is a school of fish.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 08:52 PM

Well put, Lighter...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 09:01 PM

I'm proud to announce that Michelle Goldberg who commented on this story for MSNBC (and comments on others stories there as well) was gracious enough to marry my only nephew some years ago, and therefore is part of my extended family.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 09:23 PM

Your nephew's a lucky man Charley! I've read her Beast columns and seen her on MSNBC ....... intelligent and puts it together well. MSNBC seems to have a load of young people who are waaaayyyy smart and personable.   I recall she pissed all over Ann Romney awhile back which always cheers me up.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:35 PM

" I recall she pissed all over Ann Romney awhile back.."

Video???


what... you meant metaphorically? *sigh*

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 12:18 AM

Found it........YouTube with the TEXT underneath also



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 03:34 AM

I think the abortion debate is too complicated and far reaching to be adequately discussed on a forum like this.

Its too easy for any of us to start points scoring when we should take time to think about all of the issues involved, even without taking religion into the equation.

Like many other issues it has become "politicised" and when that happens, all reason goes out of the window.

For the record, I am not against abortion per se, but I am distinctly uneasy about its use as a form of contraception.
In our youth, most of us behaved in a responsible fashion towards girls.
Now personal responsibility has been removed, even from the creation of human life.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Musket
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 04:27 AM

OK.

So as not to be seen as a thug, even by those whose opinion of me is irrelevant...

100% agree with one thing you said Akenaton. This is not the forum to adequately discuss rape.

50% agree with your thought that liberal minded people vs right wing people in terms of thinking for themselves. I say 50% because of course, your observation brings stereotyping to a whole new level.

Bridge would be happy to be called a liberal minded chap, and as we constantly notice, he does think for himself. I am comfortable with liberal in broad terms too, and how often would I want to nail my flag to his mast?

Oh, personal responsibility has been removed more than ever in society. I quite agree. Thinking that most behaved better before though is perhaps rose tinted and nostalgic, if yu don't mind me saying so. Problems were pushed under the carpet more, that's all.

How many young girls went away with their mothers for a few months and the "mother" happened to have a baby whilst away, and brought it up having an elder "sister"? How many nunneries were full of traumatised late term abortion girls or if they were lucky, given up their child at birth? Public health records are full of them.......... And they are no modern phenomenon either.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 12:26 PM

"I recall she" (Michelle Goldberg) "pissed all over Ann Romney awhile back."

Maybe, as a humanitarian act, she was trying to cure Ann of a
fungal infection.

I know I haven't read anything about Ann Romney currently suffering from Athlete's Foot.

Click Here!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 03:00 PM

Just for information, here is the article by a doctor that so many conservatives have been basing their beliefs on for the last decade.... and perhaps before as the theory was published in his book from 1985.

This doctor ("a general practitioner with obstetric training and a former president of the National Right to Life Committee") is now 87.

Various eminent medical experts have called the article & the theory 'nonsense' and worse.

This whole thing is an example of folks like National Right to Life Committee doing a "place the dart where you want it, then draw the bullseye" trick. They WANT a certain conclusion. so they distort & invent facts and use convoluted explanations to defend it.... much like the entire Republican party is depending on for many issues right now.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 03:21 PM

We must think very carefully before abandoning all responsibility for our actions, especially where the creation of life is concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 03:53 PM

Yes? So? What IS "abandoning all responsibility "?

Generic slogans don't say much. I can agree with your assertion and maybe NOT agree with any details you suggest.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 04:08 PM

Uh....yeah......How about a definition here of this "abandoning responsibility" that you bring up?


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 04:35 PM

I, think that because Akin used the word 'rape', America is tantalised!
Their imaginations are running wild, and now must weigh in!
Next will be, hearing about abortions for gay rape. That's how silly you yanks tend to get!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:13 PM

How quickly we have forgotten why abortion was legalized in the first place... It was a civil rights issue... People were getting abortions... If they were white with means they went to Mexico for that "special weekend" (wink. wink)... If they were poor, different story... Back-room abortions where many thousands of women died from the procedure... This ain't exclusively about the right or wrongness, which is a personal decision but fairness and civil rights...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:18 PM

Musket... "100% agree with one thing you said Akenaton. This is not the forum to adequately discuss rape."

Ahhhh... I dunno where you read that quote, Musket??? Can you cite it?

Ake... "I think the abortion debate is too complicated and far reaching to be adequately discussed on a forum like this."

Are you shittin me? Yer gettin yer ass handed to you on a plate and THAT is your response? Seems to me your response is that of a coward who would rather run away than be taken to task and proved wrong (which is exactly what has been happening herein). Seems to me the only reason you want to run away is that you cannot support your arguements. Sooo... here's the real deal... YOU ain't adequate for this discussion on this site or for participating in a democratic and compassionate society. Your ideals and beliefs belong in a time of witch trials and such.

Oh yeah... since the people in this forum are not up to par with you, I shant expect to see you post here again.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 05:39 PM

Of course this forum isn't adequately equipped to discuss rape. Most of what people post in here is nonsense, refutations of factual posts with reputable sources, and juvenile mudslinging.
Sorry, Gentlemen, but that's exactly how you come across!
There ARE exceptions of course , but if I were to name them, it would only start another stupid argument!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 06:22 PM

"it would only start another stupid argument!"

Odd... given that that was NOT the statement made that I addressed.

Even more odd is that "nobody" asserts that the people in this forum are not intelligent enough to discuss WHATEVER. I dare say it takes someone of very limited knowlwdge and intelligence to make such a statement. Unless such someone is simply a troll stirring up shit... is that a possibility?

Yes... I know. I just haven't anything better to do in such a small window while I wait for my next client.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: John P
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 12:04 AM

Akin's comments were based on an article from 1972 a Dr. Mecklenburg. The article was in a book published by an anti-choice group. Mecklenburg's theory was based on "research" that had been conducted by the Nazis in concentration camps, where they would pretend to kill women who were about to ovulate so they could see the effects of terror on ovulation. Mecklenburg also said that rapists tend to not be fertile because of frequent masturbation.

Article in Seattle Times

If it was fiction, I'd think the story was too far-fetched to allow me to suspend my unbelief.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 02:53 AM

Bill...Rape is a crime under any circumstances, there is no discussion required on that....end of story.
The result of rape is sometimes pregnancy ...sometimes not, so the debate moves on to dealing with the results of rape.

The abortion issue.
I could write a whole page on this, but as our sensible guest has noted, on this forum it would only cause another "war" as most here are too politically polarised to look at the issue objectively.

In the UK the creation of life is often used as a means of obtaining a better standard of living,to the detriment of the rest of community, not the fault of the young girls invoved, but of society for encouraging the culture where this sort of conduct is permissable.

The same lack of responsibility applies to the termination of new life, this invoves a whole discussion on the function and ethos of motherhood and as any fool can see, on a forum like this that would be well nigh impossible,

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 03:11 AM

That is complete nonsense. Very few people opt to become pregnant in order to live on benefits. Check the level of benefits. They are too low for a decent life. The assertion that a fertilised egg is a life has been comprehensively demolished above. Once again Ake, you seek to vassalise others.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 04:14 AM

"That is complete nonsense."
Yes it is, and old nonsense. The accusation that women become pregnant to obtain benefits has been the cry of every religious fudamentalist throughout my life.
It has also been reguarly used by the Conservative right to undermine the benefits system for as long as I can remember with crass statements like "We must think very carefully before abandoning all responsibility for our actions".
Abortion is a complicated issue and it really time the dinosaurs among us begin to come to terms with those complications and stop making peoples lives a misery at a time when they are at their weakest and most vunerable.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/aug/31/colombia.religion

http://maboulette.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/the-10-year-old-mexican-girl-who-gave-birth/
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 06:01 AM

From this morning's Irish Times
Jim Carroll

GROUP REMOVES CLAIMS ON RAPE
CONOR POPE
YOUTH DEFENCE has removed content from one of its websites suggesting the chances of a woman becoming pregnant as a result of rape are remote.
The information, which was on one of its websites until Tuesday night, said women had "natural defence mechanisms" which reduced their chances of becoming pregnant following sexual assault.
When contacted by The Irish Times, the organisation said it now considered this claim to be "unreliable", although it ruled out an apology for its assertion.
Its prolifeinfo.ie website said: "Trauma from the rape may bring into play some natural defence mechanisms that reduce the likelihood of pregnancy, such as hor¬monal change and spasms of the Fallopian tubes, which inhibit ovu¬lation or fertilisation."
The site added: "The chance of conception resulting from a single act of unprotected intercourse even between consenting fertile individuals has been estimated at only 2 to 4 per cent."
These statements were deleted this week. Youth Defence spokeswoman Ide Nic Mhathuna con¬firmed the changes and said it was a voluntary organisation with a number of websites that were "hard to keep up to date all the time". She said it had "reviewed the information on that particular website earlier this week and decided that the study upon which it was based was too old, so we removed it".
She agreed the claims had been removed only following the contro¬versy surrounding comments from US congressman Todd Akin but stressed that, unlike him, her group had never used the phrase "legitimate rape".
Dublin Rape Crisis Centre chief executive Ellen O'Malley-Dunlop said she did not wish to be drawn into a row with Youth Defence but highlighted statistics contained in the centre's last annual report. "We had 263 clients who said they were at risk of pregnancy follow¬ing a rape and of that number 25, or 10 per cent, subsequently became pregnant," she said.
The Rape Crisis Centre national helpline is 1800-778888.

Religious right peddles myths to control women: page 14

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Sawzaw
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 07:16 AM

Minn. lawmaker in rest stop scandal won't drop bid

ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) — A Minnesota Democrat who had a rest-stop sexual encounter with a 17-year-old boy said Wednesday he's still running for re-election, defying party leaders who urged him to drop out as they battle to regain control of the state Legislature.

Rep. Kerry Gauthier, 56, told Northland's NewsCenter in Duluth that he will let people in his district decide his political future, "rather than the political power base in St. Paul." Gauthier told the news network he is "a better person than this incident portrayed me."

Democratic Gov. Mark Dayton said Gauthier's decision would be "destructive" for his reputation, his district, his party and the state.

Police say Gauthier admitted engaging in oral sex with the boy on July 22 after the first-term lawmaker from Duluth advertised on Craigslist for "no strings attached" sex. Police declined to charge him because the boy was older than 16, the legal age of consent, and no money was exchanged.

Gauthier has not returned repeated calls and messages from The Associated Press since the scandal broke.

"I am sorry for the hurt this has caused my family, friends and my constituents. I know I made a mistake and am determined to make amends as best I can," Gauthier said in a statement posted online by the Duluth News Tribune.

He appeared in a photo on the network's website with a few supporters. In the interview, Gauthier explained his hospitalization last week as the story became public by saying he had taken several muscle relaxants and lost consciousness.

"I took an overdose of pills to not feel any pain and this resulted in my hospitalization," he said in the statement, adding that he has been in recovery from chemical dependency for 30 years with one relapse.

Gauthier told the station his unwillingness to accept he is gay led him to engage in the inappropriate liaison in a public place. He said he is getting counseling. He also said he feels badly for the teen and wouldn't talk specifically about the incident to protect the boy.

"I can change my behavior, but I cannot change the fact that I am a gay man, and have known this since my college days. I simply must act like a mature gay man would act, and not as the incident portrays me," the network quoted him as saying.

His decision drew condemnation from Democratic leaders including Dayton, who urged Gauthier to drop out of the race. Democrats need to gain at least six House seats in November to take control of the chamber. Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party Chairman Ken Martin and House Minority Leader Paul Thissen said Gauthier would get no support from the party or the House DFL caucus.

"It's a terrible mistake on his part," Dayton told reporters at the Capitol. "I think it's just something that goes beyond the morals of Minnesotans — to solicit on Craigslist sex with a minor and do it in a public area, publicly owned area, as a state legislator, and come back to the parking lot with his clothes disheveled. It's not about whether it's a same-sex or a heterosexual act. It would be the same if it were the same circumstances involving a heterosexual individual."

Sen. Roger Reinert, DFL-Duluth, who shares a district with Gauthier, earlier urged Gauthier to skip a Friday special session on flood relief for his district and surrounding areas hit by severe flash floods in June. Reinert said Gauthier would be a distraction and could end up being censured by majority Republicans, or even blocked from taking his seat in the House chamber.

"That's not what we need right now," Reinert said. "What we need is all eyes and efforts focused on recovery."

Republican leaders called on Gauthier to resign immediately, but Dayton and other Democrats have not.

Dayton said his signed agreement for the special session with top Republican and Democratic legislative leaders would preclude a House vote on Gauthier's conduct because it limits the scope of the special session. A spokeswoman for the GOP House caucus had no immediate comment.

Rep. Tom Huntley, a Democrat whose Duluth district adjoins Gauthier's, told the Duluth News Tribune he considers Gauthier a "child molester."

"Why would anybody support someone that did what he did?" Huntley said in an Associated Press interview. "I am a strong supporter of gay rights, but that does not mean 55-year-olds with 17-year-olds. And I just can't imagine the public would approve of that."

But Gauthier has support from labor activists, including Alan Netland of the Northeast Area Labor Council.

"He had a personal problem but it doesn't affect the fact that he's a great representative for working people," Netland said.

Duluth firefighter Erik Simonson launched a bid as a write-in Democratic candidate for Gauthier's seat Tuesday. Duluth City Councilor Jay Fosle also has filed paperwork to run as a write-in candidate. Republican Travis Silvers already is on the ballot.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 07:16 AM

Ake......In this country, your statement is both nonsense and also has racial overtones.



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 08:11 AM

I think what many of the people here - and I use the word people with care, as I see almost all to be men - are missing is a deep truth which modern society has been ignoring.

As revealed to Greek philosophers and subsequently medieval Christian scholars, women are not actually human beings at all, and are thus not possessed of any human rights. We are, in a word used of fertilised zygotes above, mere blobs, given as much of animal life as necessary to support the development of future people, that is males. Since it cannot be determined in advance whether a foetus is actually a person, male, or a potential incubator, it must be assumed to have full rights until such time as it is born, when the matter becomes clear.

Since, as an incubator, a woman has no rights, she must be the property of some man, who has the right to inseminate her when he wishes, and thus cannot be guilty of rape (even if incestuous), while a stranger can be legitimately accused of this action. It is mere wish fulfilment on the part of the owner to assume that sex without consent cannot result in pregnancy. This belief, of course, allows the deduction that the woman has, as it were, stolen herself, as incubator, from her owner, and is thus deserving of chastisement.

'Spaw's wonderful anger at the stupidity of people holding these beliefs is thus ignorant of this truth, and his generous extension of consideration to women is only like that which people may extend to their pets.

When I get angry, a part of my brain goes off into stuff like this. I am, of course, not angry with 'Spaw or others of his opinion.

Penny