BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 09:30 AM

"YOUTH DEFENCE has removed content from one of its websites suggesting the chances of a woman becoming pregnant as a result of rape are remote."

Very timely but an apology would still be in order for hosting for an extended time such an outrageous statement.

Sawzall's new story above is another pathetic attempt to gain attention. The shocking story is not related to the topic of this thread unless he believes it's a case of "rape," legitimate of otherwise.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 09:34 AM

Wonderfully put Penny...........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 11:36 AM

"The same lack of responsibility applies to the termination of new life, this invoves a whole discussion on the function and ethos of motherhood and as any fool can see, on a forum like this that would be well nigh impossible>"


*shaking my head at Akenaton's continued evasive, dissembling faux-answers to direct questions about his beliefs.*

Deliberate termination of ANY life... at ANY stage MEANS 'taking responsibility', whether it is a good decision or a bad one. If 'responsibility' is defined in your premises as only 'protecting' life in all cases, YOU cannot reasonably discuss "the function and ethos of motherhood". (No...it is not absolutely clear that such IS your definition, because you dance around the topic with vague language while blaming the 'forum' in general for not cooperating.)

As to the idea that many women in the UK use pregnancy to get benefits, several of your countrymen have answered that. We hear that in the US also, but its incidence is greatly exaggerated to support things like racial bias.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 11:55 AM

""We must think very carefully before abandoning all responsibility for our actions, especially where the creation of life is concerned.""

And that would, to your way of thinking, mean that a raped sixteen year old should be sentenced to a minimum eighteen years of child rearing (for a child she didn't want, but was forced to accept), while the rapist, assuming he is caught (which is by no means certain) gets six or seven?

Sheesh! Even nine months gestation followed by adoption is too much IMO!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: artbrooks
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 12:01 PM

I'm trying to remember where I saw the news article about the rapist who sued his victim for child visitation rights.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 12:24 PM

Probably the same woman I just saw on CNN.

The court threw out the father's suit.

The mother says she takes no political position on "pro-life" or "pro-choice."

Which I take to mean that she's effectively "pro-choice."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 12:31 PM

The outspoken people who believe that lots of women falsely claim to the authorities that they've been raped must think it's pretty easy to lie consistently to police detectives. If the cops find an innocent suspect, then the woman has to lie in court, knowing that she's trying to convict an innocent man and that she'll go to jail herself if the fraud is exposed.

Only a certain kind of psychopath is that calculating and stupid at the same time. How anybody can believe that it happens routinely is beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 12:52 PM

You've forgotten. You are talking about women, who are mere simulacra of humans, and do not have brains.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 01:02 PM

we now have presidential candidates that are not just puppets but brainless puppets.
incidentally, how many posters here think it is possible for a woman to rape a man?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 01:31 PM

Catspaw....I am not at all surprised that you find my post "nonsense", you seem to think that way about everything I write, but I am truly amazed at the "racial overtones", would you be kind enough to explain this to me, as it appears to be nonsensical?

Penny seems to believe that any woman who chooses to fulfill her primary natural function and bear children, is nothing more than an incubator, performing a service for men.....with no rights?

Well I could take her to a thousand mothers in this area who would tell her exactly what they think of that piece of nonsense.
Women here are proud of the children they produce and nurture, fortunately, the vast majority here still support the family structure, tho' a change is afoot.
The "incubators" are the young girls who have decided to follow the "liberal" ideology, not for "men", but to improve their living standards. In fact men become redundant after insemination as benefits would be cut if they lived together.
Young single mothers in this area are automatically given a house rent free and benefits which increase with the number of children produced.....it is a massive scam and is happening all over the UK.

Of course the kids can hardly be blamed for what they do, there is simply nothing else for them but a life of poverty....living with often impoverished parents, without any kind of meaningful job and with the spectre of drugs all around.

Jim Carroll is wrong. I know exactly what I am writing about.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Musket
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 01:35 PM

Gnu. You asked me to cite my comment?

Citing My own comment would assume I am repeating somebody else? Now granted, to say I 100% agree with Akenaton is a bit strange to say the least, but I don't need to cite where I got it from. I obviously got it from having had a drink too many....

But I do 100% agree with the deluded paranoid bugger. I don't think this is a forum to successfully discuss rape.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 02:04 PM

"Since it cannot be determined in advance whether a foetus is actually a person, male, or a potential incubator, it must be assumed to have full rights until such time as it is born, when the matter becomes clear."

Great line, Penny S. Explains so much!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 03:28 PM

"but to improve their living standards"
Your repeating this without proving facts ad figures to substantiate it doesn't make it any less crass than the repetative vomiting of your homophobic bile.
I've been listening to such garbage for the best part of my life from every conservative dinosaur who would wind the clock back to the middle of the nineteenth century when women knew their place and men wore caps they could doff when the guv'nor passed..
"Jim Carroll is wrong. I know exactly what I am writing about. "
Often, but not here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 03:58 PM

From the analysis columns of today's Irish Times which seems to have its finger on the pulse of what's happening in the relio-funda camp
Jim Carroll

RELIGIOUS RIGHT PEDDLES MYTHS TO CONTROL WOMEN
Fionola Meredith
The creationists are on the move and they have their sights set on the Republic
US congressman Todd Akin is part of a long tradition of the religious right denying women agency over their bodies

IF YOU'RE a politician, there are the things you secretly believe and then there are the things you say.
This week, US Republican congressman Todd Akin's mouth ran away from him when he was asked about his opposition to abortion, even in the case of pregnancy resulting from rape. In a now notorious response, he said: "It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."
Let's leave aside the profoundly offensive idea of "legitimate rape" (the opposite of which, by implication, is soft, cuddly, harmless rape) and focus on Akin's ludicrous central claim. Does he really believe women's reproductive systems have an in-built border patrol force, designed to hunt down and kill hostile sperm?
The unpleasant logical corollary of this is that if a raped woman becomes pregnant it is the fault of her body, which has presumably failed to whip down the cervical portcullis in time.
Akin is now desperately backtracking from his comments but you can bet he is far from alone in clinging to such crackpot notions. He is merely the latest in a long, ignominious tradition of men who mythologise women's procreative capacities while denying them agency over their bodies.
They are unashamed to play fast and loose with science, which is not surprising, because this is not about cool, clear, objective facts. It is about manipulation, power and control.
Nor are such reprehensible tactics confined to the American religious right. They have been successfully exported all over the world, particularly the unproven, fear-mongering claims that there are causal links between abortion and breast cancer or depression.
Here in Ireland, the prominent anti-abortion website prolifeinfo.ie has been peddling equally spurious nonsense. The site states that trauma from rape "may bring into play some natural defence mechanisms that reduce the likelihood of pregnancy, such as hormonal change and spasms of the Fallopian tubes which inhibit ovulation or fertilisation".
It bases this outlandish suggestion on a 35-year-old journal article that focused on the sexual performance of the rapist during the assault, rather than the victim's ordeal.
Anti-abortion campaigners are not the only religiously inspired zealots who use garbled
science, imported direct from the US, to advance their aims. The Young Earth creationist lobby has practically turned it into an art form. Creationists, who believe God created the world 6,000 years ago, insist that every word of the Bible is the literal truth. They have developed a wobbly pseudo-scientific framework to justify their beliefs, borrowing selectively from mainstream research, misrepresenting legitimate findings, and filling the gaps in between with dodgy theories of their own making. In debate, creationists favour the blitzkrieg approach, firing off a barrage of misinformation that would take six days and six nights to refute painstakingly. It's a bit like the old X-Files government conspiracy slogan: "deceive, inveigle, obfuscate".
All this would be a matter of harmless curiosity were it not for the fact that creationists want this hokum taught as scientific fact in schools, museums and galleries. They are politically powerful in Northern Ireland - two DUP Assembly ministers are Young Earth creationists - and they have already scored a small but significant victory with the inclusion of their views at the new Giant's Causeway Visitor Centre in Co Antrim.
Don't be tempted to dismiss this as more wacky business up north, irrelevant to the rest of the island. The creationists are on the move and they have their sights set on the Republic. Next month, Creation Ministries, a global creationist outreach group, is bringing its Olympics-inspired "Carrying the Creation Torch" UK and Ireland tour to events in Cork, Kerry and Louth, and they are looking for recruits, especially young ones.
Evidence suggests these creationist seeds may be falling on pretty fertile ground. There has been a dramatic rise in evangelical Protestant churches in the Republic in recent years, with Pentecostalism proving particularly popular.
This conservative church has a strong tradition of biblical literalism, and well-established connections with the US religious right. Perhaps the intense, emotional style of worship - guitars, dancing, speaking in tongues - seems like an antidote to years of staid Catholicism. Here it's all about the feeling: personal experience and a direct relationship with God takes priority over doctrine.
Let's be clear: this is not an attack on Christian faith in its entirety. (There's nothing the extremists like better than to treat any criticism as some kind of evil, smouldering broadside against God.)
But with the decline of the Catholic Church, a vast spiritual vacancy has been created. Creationists and their ideologically driven fellow-travellers are eager to fill it. They may be pre-Darwinist in spirit but they speak in the persuasive modern language of equal rights. Some of them are even pretty hot on the guitar. If they gain ground in their dangerous crusade it will be at the expense of democracy, science and truth.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 04:25 PM

So a few folks think that this subject is too complex to discuss...

How many Catters know someone who has been raped??? Can I get a show of hands???

I know several and I'm sure everyone knows at least someone... That makes the discussion a valid one...

As for the fetus??? If the government is going to force women to carry it then the government has a moral obligation to support that child all the way thru college... I'm not talking a handful of Food Stamps here... I'm talking parental support because, in essence, the government become the parent when it forbids an abortion...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 05:32 PM

Jim...... I have access to facts and figures, but I do not have authority to print them here.

I take it you live in Ireland?.....perhaps things are different there.

Are you saying that I am telling lies?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 05:42 PM

ake - irony?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 05:46 PM

Better tell Ebbs.    :0)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 06:07 PM

"I do not have authority to print them here."

You need AUTHORITY to post legitimate facts? wow....

You realize that claims of facts...but no facts... means nothing?




One comment on the article by Dr. Willkie who gets quoted so often and is a major current source of the current misinformation.

He says that is case of a "legitimate rape" a woman is not likely to become pregnant because "the tubes are 'spastic'"
As a medical doctor, he should know that 'spastic' is hardly even recognized as a medical term any more. He intends to say that fear somehow causes 'tightening' of the Fallopian tubes, making it harder for sperm to navigate..... which totally ignores the fact that, as one REAL expert has said..."sperm are really small and swim very well".

THOSE are facts! What kind do you have Ake?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: gnu
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 06:20 PM

"I don't think this is a forum to successfully discuss rape."

Wrong. It's just a coward's way out of getting trashed repeatedly for being stunned as me arse.

BOBERT! Amazing post, man. You kicked the arse of this donkey that won't carry. My hat is off to you... if it's not too sunny. My old bald head can't take the sun much... or the crap from some of the idiots and trolls on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 06:21 PM

Ake said: "the creation of life is often used as a means of obtaining a better standard of living,to the detriment of the rest of community, not the fault of the young girls invoved, but of society for encouraging the culture where this sort of conduct is permissable."

That's one of those dog whistles lines only missing "THOSE people" to be more blunt as it is a phrase far more often applied to African Americans in the past. Perhaps it was not your intention.

Still waiting on your "Level of responsibility" definition as well as a answer to Bill.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 07:38 PM

Whoa, Penny S.! Mea culpa!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 07:42 PM

"Penny seems to believe that any woman who chooses to fulfill her primary natural function and bear children, is nothing more than an incubator, performing a service for men.....with no rights?"

1. Anyone who can come up with that interpretation of what Penny said is so blinded by his own prejudice as to make any normal reading comprehension impossible.
2. The primary natural function of a woman is to bear children?? Do you consider the primary natural function of a man to be pumping semen into a woman?

Ake will now say that my making that analogy proves that I am an idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 08:01 PM

Having been a rape victim myself - at gunpoint - I was sickened by Akins comments. I luckily was not pregnant. But anguished for weeks hoping for a period that was weeks late - my body stopped working as my anxiety increased. Guess there's something to it.
I wonder about the women in Africa and Haiti who have been gang raped with the specific goal of impregnating them to destroy families and therefore society.
This whole argument, as I see it, is to fight the claim that statutory rape is not rape at all. Consenting female, resulting pregnancy (what was the name of that girl who was kept in a shed for 13 or 18 years having babies????? Of course it wasn't rape - she kept getting pregnant.)
So...statutory rape, not being rape at all (Proof: Pregnancy provided by a willing female) does not merit consideration for abortion.

My question - where are all these self righteous god-fearing people when it comes time to provide a home and an education for these children. Has Akin adopted any? That VP wannabe?
Rant over.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 08:32 PM

> Do you consider the primary natural function of a man to be pumping semen into a woman?

The proper analogy would be that a man's natural function (if he has one) is to father as many offspring who live to maturity as possible.

Not that it would make that much more sense.

Except from the most extreme Darwinian evolutionary standpoint, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM

"function" is an anthropomorphic term.

It is a fact that males of lower species who have the drive... and luck.. to impregnate many females have more offspring who also have the same drive. But for humans, that concept is only marginally relevant. It is not required that any particular male have numerous offspring...despite what some seem to think.

    The only hope for humans in the long run is that we DO work out how to sanely regulate our obvious evolutionary advantage and limit our offspring. The very IDEA of unrestricted reproduction is mathematically frightening.... and those who want NO abortion OR birth control are kidding themselves.

"Be fruitful and multiply" was relevant at one time...but if you believe God said that, remember that he also gave us brains to know that he didn't mean "forever" with no limits.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 08:56 PM

Agreed, Lighter, that that is really the better analogy.

We have an apalling number of people, usually but now always male, who seem bent on defining women and their lives from just that
"Darwinist" viewpoint. A substantial share of them would curse Darwin as a satanic denier of biblical truth. I've seen no evidence whatever of any movement to define males, or legislate their
lives, in any comparable way.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 09:03 PM

CONSIDER THE COAT HANGER. Excellent piece, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Janie
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 10:09 PM

And for those who tend to think this is about party politics and positions, or liberal vs conservative....

Why have men lost touch with reality over rape?

The only part of her op-ed I might take some issue with is her qualified compassion for men forced to rape their daughters and wondering how they might be able to obtain erections under the circumstances, thus somewhat obliquely condemning them as perverts.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 10:29 PM

from kat's link..
"because abortion occurred mostly on the black market, they were very dangerous: One estimate placed the annual death toll at 5,000 women."

For the arithmetically limited.... that is 13.7 deaths PER DAY.

In the mid 1960's in Wichita, Kansas, I knew a chiropractor who dabbled in being a slumlord...and illegal abortions. I do not 'know' whether anyone died from his work. He was an interesting guy, and quite decent in many ways... and he told himself he was providing a needed service! Because in Kansas in 1963 there was no simple way out of an unwanted pregnancy. No one bothered him or reported him. In 2009, a doctor doing abortions legally and safely was shot 15 minutes from where the guy in 1963 worked 'almost' openly.

You may speculate about what that all means.... I have my opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 03:13 AM

I do not believe that women who terminate a pregnancy for perhaps career reasons, or some other reason not associated with their health or the health of the child, are not in some way damaged.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 03:31 AM

Regarding reproduction, humans may in fifty years, live in a totally different society.....perhaps a society where only greater rates of reproduction can ensure the survival of the species.

Even today, in many countries birth rates are falling, the worlds population may be growing but in the West we are an aging population.

Another negative result of our idiotic socio/economic system.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 03:33 AM

As i said before, this is not the place for a serious discussion on abortion......political polarisation rules.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 03:53 AM

"....are not in some way damaged."
An appalling statement which is a leap back into the religious fundamentalist dark ages when sex was merely a necessary evil to produce children and women were no more than baby machines.
Mysoginism (alongside homophobia) rules OK
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 05:57 AM

Having gone back to the dark ages for the premises for my post, I was not happy to hear today, on Woman's Hour, BBC R4, an African woman, in a discussion on agriculture, say that one of the problems in her part of the world, is that agencies trying to improve farming cannot deal with the people who work the land (without exception women) as the owners because "women cannot own land. They are seen as the property of the men, husbands or fathers, and so cannot own anything themselves."

If you see a person as property, you are seeing them as a thing, not a fellow person. That is what seems to be behind rape, seeing women as things. Seeing the differences below the neck as more important tjan the likenesses above it. Seeing the thoughts, mental gifts, skills and so on of women as of secondary importance to the uterus, or, in the case of rape, the vagina or other abused orifice. Or even non-existent. (The committers of rape clearly do not take the creation of life as seriously as they should, but I notice nothing has been said of that.)

Someone here has done little to convince me that he recognises women as beings of equal status to men. Mind you, he has gone some way to persuading me that I may be wrong in assuming commonality between male and female intelligence. Thank goodness so many others are keeping me unpersuaded.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:02 AM

I couldn't open kat's link.

In the other Akin and Galloway are called misogynists. This is defined as hatred of women. I don't think this is what we are seeing. To hate them, the existence of women as people must be recognised, surely. These men have not extended any empathy they feel for others to women, do not extend their theory of mind to them. This blanking of a recognition of women as thinking, feeling beings needs a different name.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:15 AM

And the comments below the other are truly depressing. Loads of mostly men with too much time on their hands moaning about misandry, women raping men, and false accusations. Say something sane, please!

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 07:34 AM

"Say something sane, please!"
What we seem to be getting here from Ake and his dinosaurs is a ramble down memory lane back to the good old days when women knew their place as baby makers - if the weren't in the kitchen preparing meals, that is.
A telling phrase in his latest offering "terminate a pregnancy for perhaps career reasons" does not take into consideration all the other reasons for unplanned and unwelcome pregnancies; underage experimentation, contraception failure, peer pressure or ignorance, religious and opposition to sex education, culturally built-in mysogony and sexism, the constant presentation of women as 'available' in our tabloid press and on our screens, or simply "that's what is expected of a woman"...... and one of the great unmentionables, rape within marriage.
I was astounded to learn that rape within marriage did not exist as a crime in Britain until 1991.
We might have travelled a fair distance in the last few decades, but we've still got a long way to go.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 08:27 AM

Ake won't take any notice of this article because of where it was published.

Only the sum of the parts?

The paragraph that stood out for me was this: "Someone dealing with the actual decision to terminate a pregnancy isn't ignoring the issue that dominates pro-life legislation – the moment when life begins – she is simply unable to ignore the other questions that need to be answered: is she ready for a child? Who is the child's father – and is he ready? And, yes, how does she feel about the act that brought the child into being?"

From the comments, this struck others the same way. There are some more masculist (not happy about that word, really) responses, but even the opposers of abortion are fairly reasonable.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 08:54 AM

...are not in some way damaged.

If there's anyone "damaged", Ake old boy, its you.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 08:55 AM

> A substantial share of them would curse Darwin as a satanic denier of biblical truth.

My point exactly.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 01:55 PM

But the left loves Darwin?......so.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 02:36 PM

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 03:58 PM



RELIGIOUS RIGHT PEDDLES MYTHS TO CONTROL WOMEN
Fionola Meredith
The creationists are on the move and they have their sights set on the Republic
US congressman Todd Akin is part of a long tradition of the religious right denying women agency over their bodies

IF YOU'RE a politician, there are the things you secretly believe and then there are the things you say.
This week, US Republican congressman Todd Akin's mouth ran away from him when he was asked about his opposition to abortion, even in the case of pregnancy resulting from rape. In a now notorious response, he said: "It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."
Let's leave aside the profoundly offensive idea of "legitimate rape" (the opposite of which, by implication, is soft, cuddly, harmless rape) and focus on Akin's ludicrous central claim. Does he really believe women's reproductive systems have an in-built border patrol force, designed to hunt down and kill hostile sperm?


From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Aug 12 - 08:01 PM

Having been a rape victim myself - at gunpoint - I was sickened by Akins comments. I luckily was not pregnant. But anguished for weeks hoping for a period that was weeks late - my body stopped working as my anxiety increased. Guess there's something to it.



You two should talk it out! and leave politics out of it!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 03:46 PM

"You two should talk it out! and leave politics out of it!!! "
With respect, while you have my sympathy for what must have been an appalling ordeal, from the outset this has been a political issue, namely a Republican State candidate making an outrageous statement about a serious crime.
Once religion and politics become involved in issues like this common sense and humanity fly out of the window.
Whatever the outcome for you, there are many many, more for whom the result was different and who were denied necessary assistance. I live in Ireland where not too long ago a termination would have been out of the question, no matter what the circumstances of conception - and this because of th power of a church undermined by child rapists and a hierarchy that allowed them to continue their activities for the good of the church.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 04:07 PM

Apologies, my post of 03:13 today is perhaps unclear.
It should read, "I do not believe that women who terminate a pregnancy for perhaps career reasons, or some other reason not associated with their health or the health of the child, are not in some way damaged by the experience."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 05:17 PM

legitimate rape definitely exists, but not in the sexual sense.
economies get raped, the countryside gets raped, people get exploited,Ireland and iceland have been raped to name just a couple
I know this is not what this dumbass politican meant, and he is dumb

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: frogprince
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 05:31 PM

"I do not believe that women who terminate a pregnancy for perhaps career reasons, or some other reason not associated with their health or the health of the child, are not in some way damaged by the experience."

Taking that at absolute literal face value, it could imply a belief that a woman who terminates a pregnancy because it was initiated by rape or incest is "damaged by the experience". Do you allow that the mental implications of carrying a pregnancy caused by rape or incest are "associated with their health" so as to justify a decision to terminate the pregnancy?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 05:32 PM

Ake said, in part:

"the creation of life is often used as a means of obtaining a better standard of living,"

Well, if Ake had just quit there I'd agree with him. My wife and I
acquired three great kids, and it gave us a better standard of living, as it was intended to do. That's the reason many, and probably most parents have kids, to improve their lives.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 07:05 PM

> "I do not believe that women who terminate a pregnancy for perhaps career reasons, or some other reason not associated with their health or the health of the child, are not in some way damaged by the experience."

Maybe they are.

And it's their own damned business.

I mean, "their taking of personal responsibility."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Legitimate Rape'???
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 07:34 PM

"But the left loves Darwin?"

The left *I* know loves truth & fact... as close as can be found. Darwin by himself is only a step.

and that long 'fixed' quote about "...perhaps career reasons, or some other reason not associated with their health or the health of the child, ..." is STILL an evasive position.....kind of a generic statement with no substance, like "I firmly believe overeating might cause some weight gain"

right.... tell us something...or don't bother.