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Lyr Req: Like the Snow (Sydney Carter)

DigiTrad:
CROW ON THE CRADLE
EVERY STAR SHALL SING A CAROL


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Micca 03 Nov 99 - 06:21 PM
Pelrad 03 Nov 99 - 11:06 PM
Micca 04 Nov 99 - 04:32 AM
Pelrad 04 Nov 99 - 11:18 AM
GUEST 13 Jan 10 - 05:50 AM
Richard Mellish 13 Jan 10 - 06:56 AM
John MacKenzie 13 Jan 10 - 07:13 AM
GUEST 24 Apr 12 - 06:51 PM
GUEST,leeneia 25 Apr 12 - 09:28 AM
GUEST,franco 25 Jan 13 - 12:05 PM
Reinhard 25 Jan 13 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,999 25 Jan 13 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,999 25 Jan 13 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,999 25 Jan 13 - 01:05 PM
GUEST 20 Jan 16 - 10:42 PM
GUEST,Dave 21 Jan 16 - 04:33 AM
GUEST,leeneia 21 Jan 16 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,# 21 Jan 16 - 06:40 PM
keberoxu 21 Jan 16 - 06:57 PM
GUEST,Dave 22 Jan 16 - 06:03 AM
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Subject: Vanished like snow
From: Micca
Date: 03 Nov 99 - 06:21 PM

Does anyone have the complete lyric for the song "Vanished like the snow" its been driving me nuts for several years on and off as the bloody tune squirrells in my head regularly. I heard it on a Sunday Teatime TV show in the mid 60's called Hallelujah. It was performed by Martin Carthy (and yes I've asked him and he can't remember it either). The other singers on the show which was "light Religous" were Sidney Carter (who wrote "Lord of the Dance") and a wonderful singer called Nadia Cattouse. There was an album of the same name released but I lent my copy and it did not return. What I can remember goes as follows: Vanished like the snow

What became of Eloise? Abelard he was her lover Once they lived in sanguine ease where they've gone I can't discover

where they've gone I can't discover all the time they come and they go (?missing line?) where the glory and their grace is when they vanish like the snow

Joan came riding from Lorraine everybody knows the story England burned her in the rain theirs the shame and ours the glory

theirs the shame and ours the glory Every body knows the story all the time they come and they go (?missing line?) where their glory and their grace is when they vanish like the snow


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like snow
From: Pelrad
Date: 03 Nov 99 - 11:06 PM

LIKE THE SNOW
written by Sydney Carter (Copyright controlled)

Tell me where did Helen go
This is where she had her dwelling
She has vanished like the snow
Where there is no way of telling
This is where she had her dwelling
All the while they come and they go
Where there is no way of telling
She has vanished like the snow

What became of Heloise
Abelard he was her lover
Once they lived in Saint-Denis
Where they're gone I can't discover
Abelard he was her lover
All the while they come and they go
Where they've gone I can't discover
They have vanished like the snow

Joan came riding from the rain
Everybody knows the story
England burnt her in the rain
Theirs the shame and hers the glory
Everybody knows the story
All the while they come and they go
England's shame and France's glory
When she vanished like the snow


This is from the jacket notes on Solas's album, "Sunny Spells and Scattered Showers." I hope the fact that it is copyrighted material doesn't upset anyone...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like snow
From: Micca
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 04:32 AM

Many thanks Pelrad, I am certain the first line of the last verse should be "from Lorraine" but a pint of what you fancy if we meet. Wrote some good songs, that Carter, for a Christian.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like snow
From: Pelrad
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 11:18 AM

Oh, funny! That would make a lot more sense. I typed it just as it was in the jacket notes. Maybe this should be in the misheard lyrics thread. :-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like snow
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 05:50 AM

This lyric set is full of "Mondegreens" ( as in Laid him on the green = Lady Mondegreen)
It is a beautiful song. These words are from Lovely in the Dances.

Vs 1- Here is where she had her dwelling
Vs 2- "Notre dame to Saint Denis", and the last line is "She has vanished like the snow"
Vs 3- " Joan came riding from Lorraine" and "England burnt her at Rouen", also "Theirs the shame and ours the glory" ( It is from a French poem) and finally She has vanished like the snow-same as other 2 verses.
Vs 4-Where the time and where the place is,
That is what I'd like to know.
Where the glory and the grace is
When they vanish like the snow.

Hope that helps.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like snow
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 06:56 AM

> Vs 3- " Joan came riding from Lorraine" <
Yes.

> and "England burnt her at Rouen" <
Whether or not that's the correct original as written by Carter, it doesn't rhyme.

> also "Theirs the shame and ours the glory" ( It is from a French poem) <
However the "theirs" and the "ours" are at best ambiguous, and at worst completely wrong for a song in English. I definitely prefer "England's shame and France's glory".

There are few songs that can't benefit from a bit of folk processing.

Richard


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like snow
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 07:13 AM

It almost works, if you sing Law-wren for Lorraine, and Roo-ong For Rouen. Nearer to the proper pronounciation too.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like the Snow (Sidney Carter)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 06:51 PM

I believe Carter's song is inspired by Francois Villon's Ballade des dames du temps jadis ("Ballad of the Ladies of Times Past")http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballade_des_dames_du_temps_jadis


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like the Snow (Sidney Carter)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 09:28 AM

Thanks to all who helped with the posting of this interesting song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like the Snow (Sidney Carter)
From: GUEST,franco
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 12:05 PM

more likely Carter got the song from Brassens' modern sung version of Villon's 15th? century poem in Old French, which treat many more beauties than three-I heard it sung by Colin Reece of the 'wee bully boys' last night ( he was surprised to hear some of this info)


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Subject: Lyr Add: LIKE THE SNOW (Sydney Carter)
From: Reinhard
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 12:47 PM

Sydney (note spelling!) Carter's own album "Lovely in the Dances" has these lyrics in the liner notes:

Tell me, where did Helen go?
Here is where she had her dwelling.
She has vanished like the snow -
Where, there is no way of telling;
Here is where she had her dwelling.
All the while they come and they go -
Where, there is no way of telling;
She has vanished like the snow.

What became of Heloise?
Abelard - he was her lover -
Notre Dame or Saint Denys;
Where he went I can't discover.
Abelard, he was her lover.
All the while they come and they go -
Where, there is no way of telling;
She has vanished like the snow.

Joan came riding from Lorraine -
Everybody knows the story.
England burnt her in Rouen;
Theirs the shame and ours the glory,
Everybody knows the story -
All the while they come and they go -
England's shame and France's glory,
She has vanished like the snow.

Where the time and where the place is -
That is what I'd like to know,
Where their glory and their grace is
When they vanish like the snow.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like the Snow (Sidney Carter)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 12:54 PM

Lyrics to that and a few others at

http://www.johndavies.org/SydneyCarter-talk.pdf


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like the Snow (Sidney Carter)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 12:59 PM

Is the title for sure 'Vanished Like the Snow' and not "Like the Snow" ?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vanished like the Snow (Sidney Carter)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 01:05 PM

On the sleeve notes of 'Lovely in the Dances' it is entitled 'Like the Snow'.

I don't know that anyone cares, but if so maybe amending the thread title and spelling Sydney correctly would help any others to locate the song.??

Yes, we care. Thanks for the correction. --One of the elves.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Like the Snow (Sydney Carter)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 10:42 PM

Would anyone care to explain the song to anAmerican?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Like the Snow (Sydney Carter)
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:33 AM

Its clearly based upon Villon's poem, perhaps upon D. G. Rosetti's translation. If you want to know what Sydney Carter was thinking, the johndavies link above (page 10 of the pdf file) gives some idea.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Like the Snow (Sydney Carter)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:44 AM

Well, Guest, I don't feel like doing any research, because that would just be about other peoples' opinions. I like my own opinions, and I'll share them with you, having read the verses.

First of all, the people mentioned (Helen, Eloise and Abelard, Joan of Arc) are well-known to people who studied literature or French in college. Sydney Carter assumes you know about them as well.

Second, I think the song is tied to tourism. Sydney is touring Europe, and he's been standing on a sites associated with these famous people. You know the kind of thing: you are on a street in Paris, and somebody tells you, "This is the house where Abelard lived." Or you visit a Greek island, and they say, "This is where Helen of Troy lived."

So Sydney is thinking about these famous people and saying

"All the while they come and they go -
Where, there is no way of telling;"
==================
I was visiting Paris in 1999, and the guidebook said the street I was on was noted because a monk with overly-liberal views was burned at the stake there. And I thought sarcastically, "That'll cheer me up!"

Possibly Sydney had done too much touring, and the weight of human evil was weighing him down. Then he wrote this song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Like the Snow (Sydney Carter)
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:40 PM

' The words of Like The Snow are based on a poem of François Villon, not a translation, but Sydney's own work based on the ideas in The Testament. François Villon was a 15th century French thief, killer, barroom brawler, vagabond and poet. The song, like the poem, takes true stories of history to make the point that all life is fleeting. The first in the song is Helen of Troy, the most beautiful woman in ancient Greece, abducted then rescued by her brothers. Then Pierre Abelard, 11th/12th century French theologian, expected to be celibate – as all scholars had to be, in the belief that sex addled the rational male mind – but who had a child with Heloise, his pupil, niece of the canon of Notre Dame Cathedral, who then punished Abelard with castration. The lovers became monk and nun, their bodies reunited only in the grave. Lastly, Jeanne d'Arc, 15th century Catholic visionary cross-dressing army leader, who turned the Hundred Years' War in France's favour, but was then burned at the stake for wearing men's clothes and claiming authority from God rather than the Catholic Church. The point of Villon's poem is in his asking where these famous people are now, followed by his refrain, "But where are the snows of last winter?" Sydney reflects this in his refrain, "She has" or "They have vanished like the snow." '

from

http://earlymusicmuse.com/sydneycarter/


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Subject: where are the snows
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:57 PM

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

That's the line, isn't it -- in Villon's original.

I recall reading Tennessee Williams' "The Glass Menagerie" for the first time. When Amanda Wingfield is carrying on, in the first act, the script says that the words "Où sont les neiges?" are supposed to be super-imposed on the set somewhere. Then Williams inserts a comment saying that Laurette Taylor was so riveting as Amanda that Williams dispensed with the projection of the Villon quote.

This reminds me of a VERY silly funny story about L.B. Mayer told by Andre Previn, but this thread is not the place for it....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Like the Snow (Sydney Carter)
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 06:03 AM

Thanks to Guest,# for reminding me of the link to that excellent site (which I forgot to bookmark last time it was mentioned on here).


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