BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 04:39 AM

Oh no one - you know what the media are like - just love to claim 'feet of clay' for anyone appearing to be doing something good.

My personal metabolism means I have to refrain from eating what Dr A put at the top end of the carbohydrate ladder - not because I can't eat so many carbs, but because I don't do well on them. I stick to salad, cheese, seeds, nuts and berries. They are the first four rungs of the 'Carbohydrate ladder' and I eat them fresh and frozen.

Beans out of a tin don't really seem to be all that attractive to me, I'm afraid. Just think - plate of fresh salad, chopped eggs with fragrant herbs and a dressing plus a bowl of strawberries and cream - or some mashed beans - which would you chose?

Same as me I bet. Pass the mayonnaise, please.

Way back there was a 'Letter on Corpulence' published by a Mr Banting which details his use of low carbing and the derision with which his discovery was met. You can find it on line if you are interested.
Look at the date.

It has always been the same, and I have been told quite frequently that eating a low carb diet has been medically disproven.

I wonder if the medics up in the far North treating the native populations sagely shake their heads and tell them that eating their diet of seal, caribou, fish, whale and the like is not healthy and they should be eating pizza and fried chicken.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 04:38 PM

Tried it back in the 90s. Lost 45 pounds; kept them off. Who discredited it?

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Helen
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 04:07 PM

Hi Guest, CS!

It's one week into July, so I've been wondering how the eating plan is going so far.

Keep at it, but check out Dr Fuhrman's site too.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 04:49 PM

that show is excellent,imo. I followed watchinh itgwith other mentioned, Forks over Knives.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Helen
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 04:17 PM

Also, re Dr Fuhrman, yesterday I watched a documentary called Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead and I was impressed with the results Joe Cross achieved in terms of weight loss, but more importantly his specific health problem and his overall health and well-being. Dr Fuhrman was a key part of the programme and shared some very interesting and thought-provoking insights. I like what he said, especially about the healthy percentages of types of foods we should be eating.

I'm going to try using fruit & vegetable juices for the Marvin Days, i.e. our two fast days per week.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Helen
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:46 PM

Hi CS,

I did the Atkins diet way back in the mid 80's when it first came out. It worked for me. I lost a good amount of weight very quickly and kept it off by simply going back to healthy, balanced eating habits but also cutting back on white carbs (pasta, white rice, white bread, etc) and replacing them with wholemeal and brown rice options.

It is really important to follow the three stages of the Atkins diet and not just take on the first stage and try to stay there indefinitely. The first stage is the kick-start stage, and then you move to the weight loss stage, before going to the weight maintenance stage.

I think that the majority of bad press you will read or hear about the Atkins diet is based on people seeing the information about the first stage and thinking that that is the whole diet. (I get tired of seeing half-baked opinions on the Atkins diets which show that the people reviewing it haven't bothered to get the full information.)

Atkins reviewed and modified his original diet plan and it is better now, I think. I think that his original idea of cutting back on highly refined carbs is very beneficial, and if his radical approach helps people to re-think and re-engineer their eating habits for the long term, then I think it works. But it is a weight loss diet and the weight loss stages are not meant to be used for the rest of your life. Once your desired weight is achieved, the weight maintenance eating habits are good.

I liked having Greek salads. That also worked for me. I found that a salad with a small amount of protein, like feta cheese or egg or legumes, and a variety of good greens e.g lettuce, spinach, etc with the light dressing of olive oil and lemon juice made a balanced and surprisingly satisfying meal.

Also, avocados have good fats, not like animal fats.

It's all in eating a good, healthy balanced diet, and I think that in modern society there are way too many processed carbs available. The percentage that many people eat is too high. Lots of fruit & veges, a little protein, and a more balanced percentage of good carbs seems a good way to go. And adding more fibre and beans/legumes to the mix is important too.

I'm getting very creative about adding beans/legumes to meals. My favourite is using mashed butter beans from a can, instead of mashed potato, as a base for fritters or salmon patties, with lots of grated veges added, and I add an egg to bind it. Bake it in the oven instead of frying in lots of oil. Yum!

One of my favourite eating plans is the the CSIRO Total Wellbeing Diet.

Note: The Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) is Australia's national science agency. Scientists evaluated a whole range of diets and developed a healthy, balanced eating plan by tweaking the best bits of all the diets.

Good luck with your eating plan.

Also, my hubby & I are trying Michael Mosley's 2 non-consecutive fast days per week. We're impressed with the changes Mosley found in cholesterol, blood pressure, heart health etc, so we're optimistic. We've been on it for about a month now. (I annoy my hubby by calling the fast day Starvin' Marvin day, or Marvin day for short. Think South Park.)

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 12:58 PM

Are you sure that ketosis can alter metabolic things?

It is a perfectly natural state to be in when all said and done - although the name is like the state which diabetics get into which is very dangerous, it is not the same.

I can't think why being in ketosis should cause birth control to fail - there is no logical reason for it.

It is not an imbalance in your system, it is the way the system works, and the ketones are excreted naturally and efficiently as long as your kidneys are working properly.

Carbohydrates are not stored as starch in Human cells - that is what potatoes and the like do.

We convert carbohydrates to fat for long term storage, a process governed by the insulin we make.

Ketosis is just the fat being broken down as the process is reversed and the unwanted bits go through the blood and urine to be got rid of. That is how it should be. If that did not happen you could not use fat to fuel the body, it would just stay there for ever, with the energy locked away and useless.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 07:57 PM

The Scarsdale diet has its own set of problems. Tarnower's pattern of regulated eating creates ketosis which is an imbalance in your system. A nurse I spoke to one evening in the ER (I had to be there for a couple of hours and we got to talking) was just back from maternity leave - she had decided to go on the Scarsdale diet a while back and her doctor friends said they'd monitor her ketosis - but it messed up her birth control pills working correctly and she ended up pregnant.

I'm sure there are other metabolic things messed up by ketosis.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 05:12 PM

So where in the book is this high protein diet?

I go by Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution - the European version - and I have been eating a lot of fresh salads and vegetables with a little fruit as I can eat 80 gm of carbohydrate a day, which is a lot of salad. I might have two eggs and maybe 5 or 6 oz of meat in a day. Some days I swap for some cheese or fish

I will probably go on eating it for the rest of my life.

It is perfectly sustainable and perfectly natural.

It is not high protein - it is possibly considered high in fat, because 'as everyone knows' eating fat makes you ill and obese - just a pity that decades of low fat eating has brought on an epidemic of super fat people with heart problems and diabetes.

Personally I would never give up doing Atkins even if the only benefit was the look of disbelief when anyone takes my blood pressure.

I have been know to have fits of uncontrollable laughter when they still don't believe it after the third attempt.

If the weight I have lost is 'all water' - well fine - it is still weight.

Ok - my waist measurement is still too large - when I do lose inches there my body reacts and moves fat from elsewhere to park it on my equator and plump it up again. All my family are the same shape in old age, and in youth as well really, I have some really good suede skirts I used to wear in my 20s which would make really good handbags now. I had a 24 inch waist, so did my mother, all my aunties and my sister, at that age.

At least it is not 50 inches any more.

I am sure that the imaginary Atkins diet has been discredited - but I'm pretty certain that if you ever try the real version you'll wish you'd done it years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 09:24 AM

The Atkins Diet was discredited a long time ago. Another 'fad' diet which concentrates on one element of nutrition and ignores the others.

Balance is the key to healthy eating and weight control. Atkins is anything but balanced. It's an unsustainable regime in the long term - I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 06:35 AM

Well, first, we should be talking about a high vegetable diet!
Fruit is way behind vegetables in high nutritional content.
Previously, I mentioned the "Eat to Live" book and I can't recall Dr Fuhrman saying that his diet would not be healthy for certain types of bodies!
I am blessed with a constitution that can eat anything, and "green" smoothies are the main stay of my diet.
However, I know lots of people who say that their bodies couldn't handle my diet, and, I accept that switching to my diet, suddenly, would literally have lots of people doubled-over with stomach ache - or never out of the toilet!
However, I do believe that gradually switching to such a - very healthy - diet could be done, by degrees, over as bigger time period as is needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: mg
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 06:05 PM

A high fruit diet would be a high carb diet. It would work for some people and it would kill people with my metabolism, sooner or later. We do not know that saturated fats are bad for us. THey are very good for some of us, probably those of us who have ancestors from the northern climes. The Atkins diet is not common fraud; it was developed by a heart doctor who had excellent results with his patients..I presume did not do well on the diet because that was not what their metabolism needed. You can eat lots and lots of vegetables and non-starchy or sugary carbs on the eating plan. If you feel great and lose weight and your other markers like blood sugar, triglicerides, waist circumference etc. are improving, then you are probably one who has benefited from a low-carb diet and probably should be on a version of it life-long. If you feel awful on it, you probably should get off it. There is no fundamental fraud involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 05:49 PM

don't do it, CS. The Atkins diet is just another form of a common fraud which makes somebody a bunch of money every few years. Here's how it works:

When the body stores starch, it does it by having a tiny grain of starch in a cell, and the starch is surrounded by water molecules. When we suddenly stop eating carbs, the body removes the starch so it can metabolize it as fuel. The water that had surrounded the grains isn't needed any more, and we urinate it away.

Water is heavy, and when we've lost the water, we think we've lost weight. In a way, we have, but it's a trivial, temporary loss.

Authors fool people by emphasizing what we DO eat. They say eat a lot of fruit and call it the Beverly Hills Diet. Or eat a lot of meat and call it the Atkins diet. But what they are really doing is pulling the no-carbs-lose-water trick.

The Atkins diet sounds especially bad because protein food (meat, cheese, eggs) is the highest calorie food there is. Also, it contains saturated fats which we know are not good for us.

I don't follow diets much, but if I were you, I'd try something like the old Scarsdale diet, which was published by a now-defunct cardiologist.

Then think of a way to get exercise which is fun for you. "Don't work out, play instead!" That's my motto.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 04:02 PM

is that the guy who's wife shot him or was it the arizona guy ... so many questions. does bacon count cause I ain't giving up my bacon no siree I am not ... it is the perfect food ... now JellO if that is on the diet then NO way in Hell .. none no sireee I am not .. I will get fat and happy first

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 12:39 PM

I have a friend who is "full blooded Sicilian", stands 6 foot+ tall with grey blue eyes... which means he has ancestors of every nationality or most at least.. lol

as an anniversary gift, he & his wife were given genome testing which had interesting results. Besides the expected Mediterranean genes, he has Norwegian & German heritage... no big surprise to those of us who have read our history... LOL he remarked about how his grandmother would refer to certain areas of Sicily by ethnic groups and it was likely left over from the various occupations of the island over the years.

Our gene pools can be pretty diverse, so how can one size fit all?

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 10:07 AM

I'm down 21 pounds since early April, and have about that much more to lose to reach what I considered my "typical" weight for most of my adult life. I aim to be there by the end of August.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 08:48 AM

One month during July.

If this is a hot, muggy weather month for you, then be very sure to drink enough fluids... protein breaks down through digestion into water soluble by products that will tax your liver if you don't.

You should always drink plenty of water any time of the year, but especially during heat stress.

good luck...

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 07:46 AM

Buy "Eat to Live" By Dr Fuhrman.
It will be the best thing - for your health - that you have ever bought!
If, after you have read the book, you don't think it was worth $15 ( second hand?) I'll buy it off you!

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 07:23 AM

PS Kat, I agree about the mindful eating thing. I put on weight something over a decade ago and lost it - and kept the weight I gained off for some years - through mindful eating. This time feels harder than before, maybe because I've left it so long before trying to tackle it properly..

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 07:10 AM

I've decided to give it a go. But considering the issues around the kidneys, maybe not for an extended period. One month during July. I'll assess how I feel after that and maybe switch to macrobiotic / vegan if it's leaving me feeling exhausted or my body's throwing up other 'Stop!" signs.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 11:29 PM

LOL, Q! I hope I live as long to say the same.

In the early 1990s, I tried Atkins. I lost over fifty pounds in what my doc considered reasonable until e started watching the bloodwork. At that time I went to a neurologist. He told me I was getting too much protein, even as a vegetarian, I had to quit any high protein eating. So, I ate more balanced meals and slipped back eventually to crap food and gained it all back.

The best I have done is to give thanks for every meal, eat slowly and thoughtfully and ONLY when truly hungry. I have found it is easy to eat "right" if I eat for the right reasons, where and when I eat and even with whom.So far, for other reasons I am in a critical kidney situation. My doc is letting me stay at home and work on it for a goal of one pound per day. That is all water. I've let go of over ten pounds in about thirty days. I could be better, but it is comfy, tasty, and seems to be doing the trick.

Anyway, long story short: stay away from high protein. Moderation in all things.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 09:38 PM

Went to see my physician today. Found out I had no conditions new to science. Two doors down from the clinic is McDonalds. Got myself a Big Mac and fries. Delicious!

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 03:10 PM

another factor heard from... a major metabolic regulating hormone, thyroxine, trumps diet every time. It also explains many of the other problems you encountered. The dosage of your medication regulates your basal metabolism much as a pacemaker regulates the heartbeat... you can't exceed your "cap". Dieting works on the assumption that when calories are restricted, the body will alter its metabolism to utilize stored calories (aka fats & glycogen) to fuel the body. That's what is meant by the phrase "burning off the fat"... it is metabolized/burned.

The main reason why iodine is added to table salt is to ensure that enough is ingested with meals to provide an often missing ingredient the thyroid needs to make the hormone.

Another kicker is that there are more than one type of fat stored in the body and these are metabolized somewhat differently. Starvation & malnutrition have been powerful selectors over the generations, so it should not be too surprising to find that those organisms that are still around have developed a variety of ways to stay alive & leave descendents.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:03 PM

I never claimed that I was losing fat - just that my weight was reducing by a kilo a day. I had to up my carbs and slow it down after only a few days as I was not safe to drive.

My metabolism is not raised by exercise, as my thyroid is kaput. I take the tablets each day and that is all the thyroxin I get.

The dietician at the clinic I attend was addamant that all I needed to do to start to lose weight was to eat fewer calories, and week on week reduced what I was supposed to eat until I could not cope. It was, of course, my fault that her diet didn't work and I did not lose any weight.

All my life I have been considered overweight, I was fat even as a baby as I was fed undiluted sugary dill water to keep me quiet in the night, as we shared a house with family. It set me on course for a lifetime of bad advice on how to eat.

These days I am just happy to be able to control my weight.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 08:37 AM

Good points, Skarpi. It often puzzles me why people drive to their gyms or exercise classes. Seems a bit silly!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: skarpi
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 08:30 AM

why spend money on some diets ? when you can do it on your own ,,,start walking ,move your legs or start cycling , stop eat food that is made in factory´s eat clean :) ++

good luck and save money .

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:26 PM

GUEST at 25 June 01:08 was me with a lost cookie.

Rumncoke:

Actually, the appetite you get from exercise doesn't normally exceed the calories expended by it....if I do 600 calories worth of exercise, I find that 4-500 calories of extra food amply satisfies the extra hunger, so I'm still in a 100-200 calorie deficit for that element of exercise. It also has the effect of raising your metabolism generally so that you're burning a few more calories when at rest. And over time you'll build more muscle, which is itself metabolically more active than fat.

If you're losing 2.2 lb in a day, EITHER it's mostly water OR you'd have to be exercising like crazy. A pound of fat supplies 3500 calories (kcal conventionally) of energy so 2.2 lb would equate to around 7,700 calories. That's the calorie DEFICIT you'd need for the lost weight to be fat. An adult male, depending on build, unless very much overweight, would use about 2000 to 2600 calories a day at a fairly sedentary level in basic metabolic functioning.

So to lose 2.2lb in a day of fat would require that you either eat nothing and do over 5000 calories worth of exercise in a day or, assume eating around 1500 calories a day and do about 6,500 calories a day exercise.

Last time I did a week ice climbing in Norway I was burning around 7000 calories a day (leaving bunkhouse at first light carrying ropes and ironmongery weighing about 15 kg and walking 7 km in minus 20 deg Celsius temps, climbing vertical frozen waterfalls all day then walking back in the dark). I was eating about 4000 kal a day, so was losing about 1 lb per day of actual fat. 2.2 lb would have needed more than double the exercise output!

As I said above, I lost a kilo a week for around 25 weeks just by reducing my portions a bit and increasing exercise...dropping down to under 1000 calories a day is dangerous long term as it puts your body into "starvation mode" where it actually hangs onto fat and burns muscle. Muscle being more metabolically active than fat, if your body "sacrifices" a kilo of muscle it actually needs fewer calories for basic upkeep of metabolism than if it burned a kilo of fat. I dropped my calorie intake from about 2700 to about 2200 and upped my exercise by about 500 cals a day, giving me a 1000 calorie a day deficit or 2 lb per week.

Everyone's different, sure, but there are some basic biochemical facts, one of these being that a kilo of fat provides around 7700 calories of energy. I'd put good money on the vast majority of your initial 2.2 lb a day loss being water.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:21 PM

The trouble with exercising is that it gives you such a healthy appetite.

Low carb as per Atkins is not about eating an apple and a slice of bread - it is eating loads of fresh green salad, lots of low starch vegetables - from which you get lots of other nutrients.

I found it very effective.

On the Induction level of 20 gm of carb a day I was losing a kilogram a day - 2.2Lb, so naturally I felt feeble - however, I had read the book so I knew exactly what to do and increased the amount of carbs until I felt normal, and sill lost a Kg every week.

No other type of diet has worked. Low calorie makes me so feeble I stagger about and fall over, but I have to go down to under 1000 calories to lose weight that way and I look like death.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: skarpi
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 04:36 PM

you want to loose weight ? ..start walking , cycling , swimming , start get less on your plate , stop dringk alcahol , cokacola ,,start having breakfast and not the English one ....cheerios or oatmeal thats the best about 50 gramms every morning ....

first of all start moving ...

all diets are doomed ...eat healthy foot .

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 04:31 PM

Well, I look at this from an "evidence" point of view, and it does seem that getting most of your nutrition from plants is, by far, the healthiest option.
Today, for the first time in human existence we can say - with certainty - which food stuffs supply us with the best nutrition.
We can also say, with certainty, which food stuffs aren't good for us.
To ignore such evidence would be just plain daft!

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:27 PM

what really torks me are the sanctimonious vegans & their ilk who propose that the only way to save the earth is to abandon the consumption of all meat... and their arguments are as up their arses as you can get. The farts of termites far exceeds all domestic animals, but raising beef is a major cause of global warming to hear these folks tell it.

I always felt that they should apologize to all Inuit, Laplanders, Masi, Mongolians and other indigenous people who rely on hunting or herding for their living for their oputrageous statements & behavior.

I better quit now, before the BP goes through the roof... lol

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: mg
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:51 PM

right..some of us should have to go out and catch it.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:33 AM

being a typical American mongrel, in this case of northern & southern European stock, I seem to be well blended... lol

my weight issues seem more from age related metabolic slowdown coupled with a way too sedentary lifestyle these days. Get me out of this d*mn cubicle! Retirement should correct that... or else leave me too broke to eat out... LOL.

I find that being an omnivour suits me just fine... lots of vegetables with pasta & meat. I can live on salads all summer with just the occasional gorging on meat. Soup is great all year round.

Winter is when it seems that eating & sleeping is the only way to go.. too dark & cold for much else. Wake me up when spring gets here...

I suspect that metabolic types do not match up well with the "modern" lifestyle... you call this living?... we are forced into to earn our "daily bread".

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:40 AM

I have heard a lot of good about VB6 - Vegan before 6. A lot of it makes sense to me but look it up and make up your own mind. Can't recommend it yet as I have not tried it but I am tempted.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:00 AM

Go with Fuhrman!
You will lose weight, and you will be very healthy with a terrific immune system!

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:19 AM

i am of the metabolic type that feels just great on it..my problems are logistical, especially when traveling. if i had a buffet that i could eat from when i need to..and whentay if you get symptoms of low blood sugar, dizziness etc. is to have someone else cook for you...family, Chinese restaurant for lunch daily, some sort of swap where they cook and you do something in return..

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:15 AM

We did read the book Rumncoke - In fact I think we still have it somewhere - and followed the diet to the letter. Still made us feel unwell. But you could well be right - The first 2 weeks are when it is really strict on the carbs and it was then we realised we had no energy. Maybe if we continued we would have felt better but maybe it is just that some people work differently to others. Glad it works for you though and well done on your success.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:41 AM

Read "Eat To Live" by Joel Fuhrman!
That's the way to go if you want to lose weight AND stay healthy!
Here's a Youtube clip of Joel explaining his theories:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ps4ceIqHu0

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:08 AM

rumncoke: You do need to be exact about the amount of carbohydrate you eat, but I have never bothered to count calories.

On the other hand, I've never worried about the amount of carbs I ate. I lost 45 lb in 6 months (that's about the maximum reasonable loss of 2 lb a week) just eating a little less and exercising a little more (well, quite a lot more, but not obsessively). I didn't cut anything out or add any "special" foods...just estimated my calories and reduced the portion sizes I'd been used to.

It stayed off except for about 10 lb which crept on when I was fairly immobile for several months following ankle surgery, but that's on its way off again using the same technique.

I tried Atkins years ago and found it unsustainable for me....whereas carbs fit into my overall feeling of wellness perfectly well.

Phil Cooper: We do know larger folks that don't eat a lot that just keep the weight on.

Whenever I've encountered people who supposedly eat very little but keep the weight on, it's inevitably turned out that they're actually eating more than they think (or more than other people think) at a level that doesn't match their activity levels. It's remarkable how little a very sedentary person needs to eat to maintain weight....and equally remarkable how a bit of exercise can shift the equation. I convinced an exceptionally sedentary friend a year or two back to go for a half hour walk at lunch time every day and she lost 12lb in the year without modifying her eating habits at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:05 PM

i think what you say is true for your type of metabolism..and for mine but i can't do 60 carbs a day...maybe 20 most days..one apple or one piece of bread..do both and bad news..i do well any day i have bacon..like a miracle. however, there are people who will not do well on this and they have spoken up..they feel awful, etc. they have a different metabolism and need to probably eat more carbs and perhaps fewr calories..everyone is different.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:36 PM

As usual people are talking about diets other than Atkins and saying it doesn't work - Atkins is NOT high protein, - read the book - it is perfectly possible to control your weight for the rest of your life eating using carb control to fine tune your metabolism.

Humans are fairly omnivorous, they evolved that way - but then someone discovered grains - we have not been eating them long enough to be able to cope with them, and then there was sugar uh oh.

If you get hold of a copy of Dr Atkins 'New diet revolution' - I think that the last edition was about ten years ago it will explain how to do the diet properly.

There are some errors in my edition - things don't add up, but it explains what you are to do and that is the important thing.

You do not need to eat grain nor sugar, nor potatoes and a few other high density starchy foods, but I found that I could eat 60 to 80 gm of carbs every day and still lose weight, depending on the amount of exercise I do.

With any luck you will be able to eat salad and low starch veges to your hearts content, plus a little fruit, add in enough protein and a natural amount of fats and you are most likely going to feel wonderful, full of energy and lose weight effortlessly.

You do need to be exact about the amount of carbohydrate you eat, but I have never bothered to count calories.

I could lose more weight by reducing the carbs, but my skin has stretched and I am over 60, I have a horror of looking like last weeks party balloon, but I no longer gain weight helplessly. I have been losing weight very gradually rather than maintaining, because I no longer eat what used to make me gradually gain weight.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:19 PM

I haven't tried it, but my wife has. She did a variant called the Atkins/Beach diet, but it was basically high protein and low carbs. She lost about 40 pounds the first time. The weight came back and subsequently her metabolism changed so that she did not lose weight. She's healthier now just eating smaller portions, more frequently during the day. She supposes some bodies are just designed not to lose weight. We do know larger folks that don't eat a lot that just keep the weight on. We have just retired from our days jobs recently and are finding out if a little more exercise and less job stress and more sleep with result in anything different.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 03:01 AM

I tried the Whisky diet once. 2 bottles of Scotch a day. In the first week I lost 4 days...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:34 AM

Original title "The Drinking Man's Diet"

Find more here:

http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/the-drinking-mans-diet/

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Exercise and self control is the only cure for sloven gluttony.

Some "side effects " - are identifiable metabolic stages as the body addapts:
Constpation 3-6 days
Followed by diarhea
Horrific bad breath
Ketosis

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 06:07 PM

I had to cut out simple carbs about 18 months ago - they just don't suit me at all (digestive and skin problems).I lost about 10lbs and have plateaud since then. I feel much healthier, having changed my eating habits, and know that this change will be for life. It has to be - I really did not like the way I felt previously and it haas almost got rid of the skin problems, which presented on the tips of my fingers and were extremely painful. My doctor is quite hapy wiith this regime.

Everyone is different - you have to find what works for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 05:24 PM

Didn't work for me and Mrs G either. We were in a shop one day after a couple of weeks on it and realised we didn't have the energy to get up the stairs! Maybe we were doing it wrong but a healthy portion of carb based energy got us up the stairs again :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 03:45 PM

Hmm, not looking too promising so far!

SRS - I tried alternate fasting, but my willpower was rubbish on the fasting days. I DO however think it looks great - the health benefits look amazing, apart from weight loss it's also anti-cancer among other things - so I may consider it again.

I think I may give low-carb a trial period of one month, and if I'm unhappy I'll look at doing the alternate fasting again.

Anyone else got anything more positive to say about low carb :D

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 03:10 PM

I did try the Atkins Diet many years ago. It worked to some extent, in that I lost about a stone in weight - BUT - I felt terrible, my breath smelled awful, I was constipated and constantly thirsty. My skin (which has always been my best asset) went spotty and sallow and my hair became lank and lifeless. My sister (who's a doctor) begged me to stop, as she said the high-protein diet damages the kidneys. Also, as she pointed out, you can't keep it up for the rest of your life, and must eventually eat a well-balanced and varied diet, so it's best to choose a 'diet' that involves healthy eating forever. I'm fat today, but I don't diet; however, I'm old so I don't worry about it nowadays!

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 03:07 PM

I tried the Atkins but it was horrible - caused the worst constipation I remember in ages, though I tried to get plenty of fibre.

I'm losing weight now but I'm not dieting - I decided to do the alternate day fasting routine that was talked about in one of Michael Moseley's medical science programs. Eat your normal foods one day (emphasis normal - don't treat it like a diet) and the next day a modified fast - black tea, and one meal of about 500 calories of fruit or vegetables. I stick with the calorie count and do things like a banana strawberry and yogurt smoothie, a handful of walnuts, and maybe later in the day a small helping of babaghanouj and some carrot sticks, etc. If you try to treat the regular eating days as low calorie or carb eating, your metabolism detects a "diet" and you hit a plateau. I actually do better on this alternate day fast when I'm having a dish of ice cream or something else every so often. You end up averaging your calorie intake by eating this way and do lose weight. Since early April I'm down 20 pounds.

It isn't a diet because if on your fasting day you see an ad for some food that looks delicious - you can have it tomorrow. How difficult is that? You're not deprived of foods you like, you're not eating rabbit food. The researcher Moseley interviewed said that people didn't tend to double their eating on regular food days - if they ate more it was in the range of 110%, so they were still coming out ahead if you calculate an average day as 2,000 calories.

There is a version of this eating plan out in book form now, and I think he has reduced the number of fasting days per week to 2.

The side effect of eating this way is weight loss - for me the goal is getting a healthier mix of some of the blood hormone levels. When you are a meat eater you end up metabolizing red meat into hormones that can grow cells (and if you're not yourself growing any more, it can grow things like cancer cells instead).

When I reach my desired weight I'll shift how I eat to fewer fasting days a week, and if I see myself gaining any weight I'll switch to alternate day again. I'm also planning to see my doctor and ask for some baseline blood work at my annual physical to see how I'm doing.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Success with low carb / Atkins diet?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 02:51 PM

Thanks for that Wesley! Yes, I can confirm I have no risk of prostate problems. Especially as I don't kneel that much - never was much into religious gubbins.