BS: £3 paid?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 09:45 PM

The Argentine generals and the Gang of Four were a bit more significant than the donkey jacket (which of course wasn't a donkey jacket).

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 06:17 PM

M....I'm sorry but I must disagree about MF.
The real reason he lost the election was a diabolical combination of "donkey jacket" and "Wurzil Gummidge hairstyle"....a victim of media assassination.......The media can encourage folks to do and legislate for the stupidest of things.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 05:32 PM

GUEST...the eighteenth? no I don't think so....not in Scotland at any rate.

The nineteenth...certainly, but we knew not what we did. After that, we knew and did not care.


Richard, you would not know the truth if you found it stuck to the sole of your boot.......didn't you say you were some sort of barrister?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 04:23 PM

Oh, and don't expect the truth from Myer

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 04:22 PM

Con-servative policies are simply to better the very richest and oppress the poorest. There is no virtue to be seen in that unless, like Akenhateon you believe that some people are untermenschen.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 03:45 PM

Future generations will look back on the twentieth and twenty first centuries as a time of madness, selfish waste and destruction, we shall all be branded for it.

How about the nineteenth ? The eighteenth ?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 03:23 PM

Not quite Richard....some conservative social policies are right and good for society.

There is no point in electing any government which pretends that the Capitalist socio/economic system can be reformed, it is impossible, we simply kill the goose which lays the wooden eggs.

The system must be gradually dismantled and replaced by something fairer and less wasteful of lives and resources.

This of course means for a large part leaving "self" out of the equation and that requires time and education.
Future generations will look back on the twentieth and twenty first centuries as a time of madness, selfish waste and destruction, we shall all be branded for it.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 03:09 PM

Don't think so, Richard. Everyone is "liberal" apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 02:44 PM

I suspect that even Ake can understand it. There is no point in having a Labour party that follows con-servative policies. Simples.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 12:04 PM

The other thing that I forgot to mention is that the results of the inquiry by Justice Lowell Goddard will be made known eventualy. I suspect that a lot of people in both politics and the media will be covered in it when that shit hits the fan. It may even make people realise how much they have been fooled for so many years. We can but hope...

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 11:58 AM

What I find really worrying is that politics have move that far to the right that anyone slightly left of Oswald Mosley is now treated as a left wing agitator. It is easy to blame the media and their puppet masters but it is us, the voters, that have accepted it and allowed it to happen. Trouble is that we don't seem to know what to do about it. I don't anyway but I am pretty sure that the rampant consumerism that we are now seeing will, in a number of years, be as dead as eastern bloc communism. Any form of extremism cannot be healthy for the economy or the people. There are, luckily, a number of high profile business and other leaders who do seem to understand that one cannot survive by weighting any part of the economic equation so heavily that the other suffers. I only hope that the global realisation happens sooner rather than later and if by becoming labour party leader Mr Corbyn sends a message to that effect it can only be for the good.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 11:52 AM

:0).....and you Michael.

Won't be a "red" revolution tho'......more of a greenish brown.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 06:34 AM

Right on [or do I mean "Left on"!], ake. Time for a rendition of that fine old song, "We'll make" ---

We'll make Akenaton post with his real name
When the Red Revolution comes!

Till when --
All Best Azzevva

✌·M·✌

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 06:04 AM

The really sad thing, is that people still believe that society can be changed by nice,
reasonable people like Jeremy.

Don't you remember how the media treated Mr Milliband? A nice, reasonable man in the same mould.

Society was changed by the Tories, by appealing to the worst of human characteristics, envy , greed and the rights of the individual over all.
The media direct voting intentions and social direction in this country, Jeremy will be crucified!
The method of choice by "liberals"......funnily enough.

Change must come soon....but never pretend that it can be achieved easily, painlessly, or by the ballot box. We are in too deep for that.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 04:57 AM

It is reported that Tories are paying their £3 to vote for Corbyn.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 04:56 AM

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 11:48 AM

of course, more recently chavez was elected 3? times in venezuela on an explicitly left agenda and a western backed coup was defeated by a popular revolt.

prime minister material? my friend Dave. and my wife would make a great chancellor. even if she is a bit austere at times, she has all the compassion necessary - which must be the most important quality for that or any other job in government.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 07:18 PM

Pedantic correction to my post - in 1950 Labour only got 1 1/2 million votes more than the Tories. Still a pretty fair margin that deserved a bigger margin of seats than five.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 07:05 PM

It's just not true that the voters rejected the Attlee government, and opted for the Tories.

In fact in the 1950 election Labour got two and a half million more votes than the Tories, and scraped in with five more seats. In the 1951 election Labour got more votes than the other parties combined, and received the highest vote ever received by any party in an election. And lost. That's the British electoral system for you.

Of course the victorious Tories had the sense to appreciate stuff like that, and held to a range of policies for the next generation that were well to the left of the last Labour government in many ways.

If there's a split in the Labour Party it'll be the right who are the splitters, as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 06:38 PM

Yep, Michael Foot was a principled man who was on a hiding to nothing, far more principled than Healey and co. As for the Gang of Four, they were simply nakedly opportunistic and delusional people who handed the '83 election to Thatcher on a plate, not because they split the vote but because they turned perceived divisions on the left into easy meat for the Tories. To this day, any perceived division in Labour's ranks is seen as a fatal weakness (as though the vicious divisions in the Tory party never existed...). The Tories are very clever at closing ranks. Labour haven't got a clue on that score, as recent weeks have shown. It has stuffed them for the next election, just as sure as that extremely ill-advised note left by Liam Byrne in 2010 stuffed them five years later. Come back Alastair Campbell, all (nearly) is forgiven.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Stanron
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 06:28 PM

Dare no one mention that Greece quite recently elected a left wing government?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 04:44 PM

i feel i should point out that i have been a lefty all my adult life and never met anyone truly wealthy or upper-class. i have known some middle-class people but very few who admit to being tories. for a brief period in the late '70s it was trendy to be a lefty but never since. and by the way i don't envy the rich -though i do envy people who live in more equal societies. if you don't like people telling you that you are 'naughty children' then grow up and stop being so dim and greedy.

however, i probably am a bit self-righteous -then again, it's because i am invariably clear-sighted and perceptive in all my political opinions.

Lay off Michael Foot by the way, probably the most intelligent, decent and honest political leader we've had in (fairly) recent times. he was unlucky in getting the job too old and having to reconcile a deeply divided party containing a load of self-righteous and and determined trots (me included)

i could mention spain, cuba and chile as elected left governments but i don't have time -off to the pub.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 03:30 PM

Oh, yes, of course. The Gang Of Four just defected coz they were feeling a bit bloody-minded that morning coz their breakfast bacon was a bit overcooked. Nothing to do with their noticing that poor old Foot's antediluvian and long discredited doctrinaire lefty bum was alienating the electorate in geometrical progression with every minute that passed...

Have none of you really ever noticed that any party going to the country with genuine socialist policies has ever got elected in UK? -- Except maybe Attlee's with all those idealistic returning servicemen. Only to be sabotaged by that nasty puritanical sadist Cripps, whose idea of socialism was austerity austerity & then a bit more austerity: becoz he was a natural puritan rather than a true socialist. Which rather turned off an electorate who'd just had 7 years of it, thanks; and won; and thought a bit of triumphant relaxation might be nice. And he carried poor old Attlee along with him, to his eternal shame. And you're surprised that we've never wanted another dose of self-righteous wealthy upperclass lefties telling us that we were naughty children and mustn't touch and doing without was good for us!

Or that no left-wing government anywhere has ever got power by the simple democratic expedient of winning a free election?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 03:09 PM

The constant parading of Michael Foot's defeat as proof the left can never win shouldn't be allowed to pass without being examined. Two special factors lay behind this - one was the defection of the Gang of Four, and the whole episode of the SDP, and the other was having the Argentine generals riding to Thatcher's rescue by invading the Falklands.

Of course there could be a new SDP style defection, though I think there'd be a much less naive welcoming attitude to it, and I doubt if a fresh victorious war is too likely to turn up.

If John Smith hadn't died, Labour would probably still won in 1997, with Clause Four still in place and with a programme which would now be seen (by the Labour front bench) as dangerously left.

What is likely to decide the next election is primarily how unpopular the Tories are. I suspect and trust, very unpopular indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 12:40 PM

In Iceland they threw the banksters in jail and helped the people. In most other countries we threw the people in jail and helped the banksters.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 12:11 PM

It's been true for a long time. Decades. This will sound rude, even though I don't want it to but, why haven't (generic) you realised this before now?

I remember the "Labour's tax bombshell" campaign back in the 80's (it was actually Major, not Milk-Snatcher, if my memory serves). It's always been an uphill struggle for Labour to be elected. There are very many reasons for that. But Foot & Kinnock (even though, at the time, I liked them) were an absolute god-send to the Tories. They made Labour unelectable.

There are, in my opinion, only two basic drivers in life for all organisms - avoidance of pain & pursuance of pleasure. Where Homo Sapiens is concerned, at least, avoiding pain seems the stronger, however you like to define "pain".

There is a study that concluded that if you lost a tenner, you'd need to find £21 just to even things up. That's how much we'd rather avoid pain. Twice as much & a little bit over. Everyone, the right wing too, loves the idea of an egalitarian world where everyone gets their just desserts. Unfortunately, no-one (by which I mean "very few") are willing to pay the personal price & sacrifice that would be required.

Make of that what you will. For Homo Us family comes before... And family doesn't necessarily mean blood relation. It means "the people I choose to surround myself with; those who are like me".

Is it any wonder we keep blundering so much?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 11:47 AM

"True enough Dave, sadly."

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 11:46 AM

"I agree completely BWM but, sadly, the Labour party on seeing that tactic working, tried a few smears of their own instead of showing up the media lies for what they are. For many people the last election was nothing to do with voting for what you believe is right but voting against what they perceived as the biggest bogeyman. A very poor state of affairs indeed when politics has come down to showmanship and story telling by all parties. Unfortunately, as has been demonstrated here and in real life, people are still falling for it"

True enough to Dave. Sadly.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 11:13 AM

What is "Prime Minister" material, then, Ach? Winston Churchill, Lloyd George? Apparently, they won us two world wars, but both were prize c**** as far as I can see (no, I'm not short-sighted; not in that meaning, anyway).

As several have said, Corbyn may well be that rare animal, an honest polician. But however little Anne may like it, he will be Electoral Suicide. Backwoodsman is also wrong. Most people are comfortable & selfish. Altruism is a nice idea, so long as I don't have to pay for it. Think on that. The reason that not enough people vote Labour isn't because the Tories own the press...

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 11:12 AM

because the press, most of which is owned by the Tory barons, has carried out a smear-and-fear campaign for the past n years and, by their constant lies and mis-information,

I agree completely BWM but, sadly, the Labour party on seeing that tactic working, tried a few smears of their own instead of showing up the media lies for what they are. For many people the last election was nothing to do with voting for what you believe is right but voting against what they perceived as the biggest bogeyman. A very poor state of affairs indeed when politics has come down to showmanship and story telling by all parties. Unfortunately, as has been demonstrated here and in real life, people are still falling for it :-(

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 10:43 AM

does anyone think that david cameron is 'prime minister material' ? or even worse george osborne? they are slick salesmen that the media have decided are right for the job. thatcher was clearly not prime minister material by any standards and certainly not in comparison with michael foot but it is not for us to decide these matters, it's for rupert murdoch and friends.

i do fear that the media will slaughter jeremy corbyn (as they have done with every labour leader except blair) but you have to have hope that there are enough decent people around to at least listen to the message of a better way of organising things for all of society. or do we just accept that greed and personal gain is the only thing driving our politics?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 10:38 AM

"Remember - more didn't vote than voted for any party. Many of those did not vote Labour for the simple reason that Labour was conservative-lite."

Nonsense, delusional nonsense. They didn't vote Labour because the press, most of which is owned by the Tory barons, has carried out a smear-and-fear campaign for the past n years and, by their constant lies and mis-information, have succeeded in persuading the feeble-minded amongst former Labour voters that everything that led to the world-wide financial crash of 2008, and the resulting 'austerity' program of the Tories which hits the poorest hardest and continues to enrich the already-rich, was caused by Labour.

"Corbyn can retrieve many of them."

No he can't, for the reasons already stated above. Admirable though his manifesto is (I read it today), it's redolent of a hard lurch to the left which, thanks to the aforementioned lies and mis-information spread by the Tory gutter-press, MOR Labour voters are terrified of.

The only way Labour will return to power is by the Tories making a complete cluster-fuck of things and, even then, the power of the Tory press, and their willingness to lie and deceive, is such that they would probably still be able to persuade the brainwashed that such a clusterfuck was down to the Labour opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST,Musket smiling
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 09:59 AM

I would like to take this opportunity, credit where it's due and all that, to congratulate Keith in linking me to Blair.

That Bridge picked up on it is ten points to Keith. Seriously. Congratulations, rather clever and all that.

You don't see me saying that too often. In years to come, historians will argue whether I said it or not, but if you choose your historians carefully I'm sure you can find a consensus.

Now then Bridge.. Not a bad stance from a one nation Tory if you don't mind me saying so. I've always voted Labour myself like. Not really had much interest in hypocrisy.

Piss poor candidates all round. Corbyn is indeed the most honest and principles of them all but that doesn't make him Prime Minister material. You can get the keys to the car but you need to afford petrol, avoid hitting other road users and don't block traffic.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 09:51 AM

I was not talking about most of the jobs in the UK. I was talking about most of the jobs allegedly created by the Tories. Do take time to read carefully.

How many zero-hour contract jobs were there in 2010, Teribus?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 09:47 AM

Your pre-1979 world no longer exists Shaw and nothing is ever going to bring it back - high time you realised that. By the way we do actually produce (make) a damn sight more stuff than you obviously think.

"Nothing, I suppose, to do with the fact that most of those jobs are part-time but not part-time enough to claim benefits, or are seasonal, or are temporary, or are on zero-hours contracts, or are fake "self-employed" or are bogus "apprenticeships" paying £2.79 per hour..."

Back waving your "zero-hour contracts" flag again Stevie??

29 million+ form the current workforce in the United Kingdom less than 1 million of them are "jobs that are part-time but not part-time enough to claim benefits, or are seasonal, or are temporary, or are on zero-hours contracts, or are fake "self-employed" or are bogus "apprenticeships" paying £2.79 per hour..."

Since when did 1 million out of 29 million become "Most of those jobs" Shaw?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 09:27 AM

"By the way Bridge unless you hadn't noticed the UK is doing fairly well compared to most in the Eurozone and the rest of the developed world for that matter."

Except that we don't make stuff any more (cheers, Maggie) and that productivity is grinding along the bottom, in spite of the much-vaunted "millions of jobs created" mantra we hear from the Tories. Nothing, I suppose, to do with the fact that most of those jobs are part-time but not part-time enough to claim benefits, or are seasonal, or are temporary, or are on zero-hours contracts, or are fake "self-employed" or are bogus "apprenticeships" paying £2.79 per hour...

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 09:15 AM

What had deregulation of the banks have to do with selling off the UK's Gold Reserves at bargain basement prices? What had deregulation of the banks have to do with raiding the national pension fund to create non-jobs in an attempt to buy votes?

Like every other Labour Government since the end of the Second World War Blair and Brown left the country in economic ruin. The last Coalition Government and the current Conservative Government made and are making not too poor a fist of getting the country back on an even keel.

"Respect Hugo Chavez"!!!!! The man who made it his life's work to turn an extremely rich oil based state into a basket case. Skarpi will tell you all about Iceland. Denmark's way of doing things would have most UK Trades Unionists reeling in horror and fighting every reform tooth and nail. Like all Scandinavian countries the basic tax rates are eye-wateringly painful, something that the whole population of the UK would no doubt welcome with open arms. Norway basic rate of tax is somewhere between 36% and 38% but everybody pays it - with a population of only 5 million and a system based on everyone having to have an easily traced Personnummer there is no escaping the taxman - now who was it that was against the introduction of a similar scheme based on ID Cards in the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 08:03 AM

Oh, I am so tired of hearing how Corbyn will "make the Labour party unelectable" or will give us another decade of the Tories. The fact is we simply don't know what the electorate will do when offered a left wing alternative. We haven't been offered one for decades. At the moment Corbyn's key policy statements are pretty much expressions of popular feeling. His biggest problem, as always, will be the Murdoch domination of the media.
I prefer to be optimistic on this whole matter - Corbyn has at last ignited a lot of fireworks and a lot of people are talking of voting who have not previously shown interest in the Labour leadership. Nothing about it will be easy and there will be arguments in the Parliamentary Labour Party, but if he fails to win and if we plunge back into the mediocrity where we've been for so long, passively accepting the Tory lies, fudges and smoke and mirrors I for one will be looking for political alternatives.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 07:33 AM

Teribilis, the only problem the con-servatives had with Brownian deregulation of casino banking was that it did not go far enough. If he was wrong, they were yet more wrong. Some experts.

And they and the press are STILL telling the lie that the crash was caused by Labour overspending. The consensus among serious economic bodies is now quite the contrary.

You want effective economic policies? Try Iceland. Respect Hugo Chavez. Try Denmark, Finland, and Norway.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 07:00 AM

Two good reasons to vote for him now. He seems honest and Teribus doesn't like him :-)

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 06:57 AM

"Sniffin Gideon has made a total pig's ear of the economy. Time to blow the myth of conservative economic competence out of the water."

Really Bridge?? Now c'mon tell us all what a great job Gordon of Cartoon did as Chancellor and Prime Minister between 1997 and 2010. Tell us all what great financial shape the country was in when Labour lost the 2010 election.

By the way Bridge unless you hadn't noticed the UK is doing fairly well compared to most in the Eurozone and the rest of the developed world for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 06:40 AM

i am reading a lot about how a more left-leaning labour party would be unelectable, too radical etc. surely the current government -easily the most extreme government in my memory- are proof that england will elect proven, liars, incompetents and out of touch psychopaths if they can control the media. beside that lot jeremy corbyn is absolutely sensible, mainstream and trustworthy. the disaster(s) has already happened for the labour party - if they can't get elected after 5 years (and many more) of this lot they must have a serious rethink.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 06:30 AM

Corbyn has many good points, not the least of which is a seeming disinterest in power. The Labour party certainly need to do something drastic to regain credibility but I do not know enough about it to say whether Jeremy Corbyn is that something. I hope so as he seems to be that rarest of breeds, an honest politician.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 06:22 AM

The really sad thing is that Princess Tony warped the whole Labour Party - The Manifesto in 1997 dropped ALL mention of Socialism , and the Blair Cabinet was well to the right of John Majors 'Tory' cabinet - And far too many of the current Parliamentary Labour Party seem to be Closet Tories who got into 'safe Labour seats' purely as a way to get into Westminster to line their own pockets . Hence their dread that the party might actually become a Socialist organisation again .

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 06:09 AM

The last couple of weeks have been a total disaster for Labour. Looking at the four candidates, in terms of 2020 electability (zero likelihood) it doesn't matter which one gets the job. Squabbles, splits, no clear blue water and no sense of direction make Labour easy meat for the Tories. Just wait for the next general election campaign: same old Michael Foot-style rifts, can't agree among themselves, look what happened last time they were in (that one will be milked for at least another ten years), discredited Tony Blair sticking his unwanted nose back in and frightening the horses... Yep, the next Tory campaign is writing itself before our very eyes. It's tragic.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST,JHW I'll find that cookie one day
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 05:46 AM

"The idea of a political party is to try to convince the electorate to allow you to form a government and push through your policies."

Good speech Musket. I'm afraid the way I see it now is

The idea of a political party is to try to convince the electorate to allow you to form a government.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 05:42 AM

Musket and Blair. Yes I thought as much.

Remember - more didn't vote than voted for any party. Many of those did not vote Labour for the simple reason that Labour was conservative-lite. Corbyn can retrieve many of them.

Sniffin Gideon has made a total pig's ear of the economy. Time to blow the myth of conservative economic competence out of the water.

And time to get the tax take up - not cut taxes on the rich and on international capitalism.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 04:29 AM

Meanwhile the party establishment are horrified.

As Musket and Blair say, it will make them unelectable again, possibly for a generation.

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST,Musket on soapbox
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 03:58 AM

I'm not a member and never have been. That said I've always voted for them. A middle of the road party that realises the country is a broad church with many vulnerable people who need a suck on the Westminster teat merely to survive is always going to beat the Tory philosophy of deserved and undeserved in my book.

The idea of a political party is to try to convince the electorate to allow you to form a government and push through your policies.

A vote for Corbyn is a vote for twelve years minimum of Cameron and his Tory successor in three years time.

Not exactly the best way to get a government with compassion and social equality if you ask me...

Subject: RE: BS: £3 paid?
From: GUEST,Aloysius Chuckabutty
Date: 24 Jul 15 - 03:46 AM

The only trouble with Labour policies is that to pay for them you need a Tory government...