Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:19 PM

Wow, Dick!

I pointed out two reasons why the cost of the awards shouldn't concern you. A) You don't live here or pay anything towards it and B) It probably pays for itself.

Your response: you shot yourself in the foot there. Yeah right, OK...

Quite why you're saying: UNABLE TO DISCUSS WITHOUT SMEARING OR INSULTING. YOU COWARDS. is beyond me too. I don't think any one has.

To use contemporary vernacular: 'Take a Chill Pill'

One interesting point is where Morris-ey got his name from. I'd always, this being a folk site, assumed 'Morrissey & The Russian Sailor' but being a huge Smiths fan since '83 myself, I can understand Stephen being the inspiration.

Ed

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:53 PM

Dick

If you don't live in the UK, don't receive BBC programming and don't pay the Licence fee then you have no say and your opinion on BBC programming is nugatory.

You are not actually discussing anything here you telling people how it should be and getting hysterical when people don't agree.

AS to my name, if I said it was Alexander Cavanagh would that advance the argument in any way?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:35 PM

"My function is not to reassure people. I want to make them uncomfortable. To send them out of the place arguing and talking."
Ewan MacColl
HOWEVER SOME HERE ARE UNABLE TO DISCUSS WITHOUT SMEARING OR INSULTING. YOU COWARDS.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:30 PM

if it has no impact on the licensing fee, then it is not relevant where i live or whether i pay a licensing fee.
you shot yourself in the foot there.
anonymous guest hiding your identity, you can think what you like.
you attempt to smear my character, whilst hiding behind an anonymous name.
IT DOES NOT ALTER THE FACT THAT I AM ENTITLED TO STATE MY OPINION THAT I THINK THESE AWARDS ARE ELITIST.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:41 PM

Dick,

Given that you don't pay anything towards them, I'd suggest that you have very little right to demand that "the sooner these awards aere stopPed The .Better"

Also, are you aware that the audience have to pay a considerable amount, as much as £33 plus booking fee for tickets? Given the size of the Albert Hall, I'd suggest that this would cover most, if not all, of the expense of hosting the evening. So perhaps it doesn't have any impact on the licence fee, at all.

Ans as for Ido not know anyone who has been encouraged to perfoprm other than the tiny proprtion of winners., then you clearly haven't listened to the views of many of those who enter the 'Young Folk Award', a integral part of the event? Many, not just the winners, are thrilled about it. And these virtual unknowns are in no way 'the elite'.

Sorry, but your arguments really hold no water at all.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:35 PM

We don't seem to mind having "elite, athletes or soldiers. nothing wrong wrong with the concept of "elite", in those areas.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:26 PM

..... and also if you live in Ireland, and make no financial contribution to the BBC through the licencing fee, no, you do not have any right to tell them what they should and shouldn't make programmes about. I don't recall anyone here ever telling RTE what they should be programming.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:21 PM

"can on occasions discourage those who do not win" Names, please.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:16 PM

I live in Ireland,Why would I pay BBC licence, I cannot receive it here
However,Whether I pay a BBC licence is not relevant, I am still entitled to say how I think BBC licence money should be used., or do you believe because i live in ireland Iam not entitled to have an opinion on BBC output.
Morriss_ey,one thing, you have aimed a personal attack on me earlier on this thread, which a MOD removed, this unpleasant personal attack not only showed you to be a coward, hiding your identity, it did not show your character in a pleasant light.
Morriss ey, what is your real name,my name is Dick Miles, I have run a folk festival for 6 years, I have run folk clubs and I have been a full time musician for 40 years, who are you what is your name. I assume you are not Steven Patrick Morrissey (born 22 May 1959), professionally known as Morrissey, an English singer, songwriter and author.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:09 PM

Karine Polwart's assessment(quoted a few posts above)is spot on.
She is also being very modest (totally in character, if I may say) as I am certain her outstanding talent would still have taken her to where she is now whether she had won those awards or not. They probably sped up the process, I'll grant you that.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:32 PM

"my point is that these awards are elitist, if you think elitism is a good thing to encourage, do not expect me to agree with you.still waiting for an answer from "someone else" which rather proves my point. the sooner these awards aere stopPed The .Better
the BBC WOULD BE USING LICENCE PAYERS MONEY IN A MORE USEFUL WAY[IMO] ,IF THEY PROMOTED FOLK MUSIC IN A NON ELITIST WAY."

Dick, three things: firstly you encouraged another poster to read the thread to find out who your question was aimed at - why don't you read the thread to find out who you asked the question of?

Secondly, have you never come across the concept of aspiration whereby awards encourage others to improve? Probably a foreign concept because you are already a legend in your own mind.

Thirdly, do you pay a BBC TV licence?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 09:13 AM

It is just your opinion, Dick. Many agree. Many disagree. What is the point of arguing?

DtG

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Reinhard
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 08:33 AM

This is what Karine Polwart, nominee and winner of previous Folk Awards, wrote in her latest newsletter:

"I'm also acutely aware of my own personal luck in being a multiple winner and nominee at high-profile events such as the annual BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards. Whatever your take on the fairness or breadth or consumer-packaging of them, they make an impact, make no mistake. I credit those awards with lifting my music to a platform that has enabled me to make a sustainable life these past dozen years (so far, so good) as a writer and musician.

Others are less fortunate, and not because their music has any less meaning or merit. Anyone who already has visibility in their chosen world has an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't."

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:35 AM

my point is that these awards are elitist, if you think elitism is a good thing to encourage, do not expect me to agree with you.still waiting for an answer from "someone else" which rather proves my point. the sooner these awards aere stopPed The .Better
the BBC WOULD BE USING LICENCE PAYERS MONEY IN A MORE USEFUL WAY[IMO] ,IF THEY PROMOTED FOLK MUSIC IN A NON ELITIST WAY.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Allan Conn
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:26 AM

"Iasked for an answer from Allan Conn, I am still waiting
"can you give me of examples of performers they have encouraged other than past winners?"

I saw your initial post which said you were waiting on an answer to your question but I did not know who that was actually addressed to or what question it referred to. And I have no need to answer that as I never claimed that awards encouraged people to take up the music. It was someone else!!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:44 AM

vjewing figures.....!

who the hell watches that!
the only times i've watched it are when mates were on it.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:27 AM

still waiting for an answer., whoever the comment was from. Ido not know anyone who has been encouraged to perfoprm other than the tiny proprtion of winners.
the majority 0f perfoprmers are encouraged to perform because they love this genre of music and they get a good reception when they perform.
competitions and awards can on occasions be a double edged sword, they encourage the winners and can on occasions discourage those who do not win.the bbc would be better off spending money on folk workshops, or propgrammes like "hold down a chord" , but they wont because this is not about education or improving standards for the bbc it is about viewing figures

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:54 AM

I thought so too, Freddy, but I didn't like to say!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:19 PM

[gss & dtg
It looks like the "... they perform a valuable service in encouraging performers ..." comment was from Mike Daniels but he's not been back since.
thread.cfm?threadid=161498&messages=101#3839098 ]



.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 03:52 PM

GSS - to turn your totally pointless question around :
Can you give us examples of performers who have been discouraged after watching the Radio 2 Folk Awards ?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 03:16 PM

But that is no reason not to hold awards.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 02:53 PM

Iasked for an answer from Allan Conn, I am still waiting
"can you give me of examples of performers they have encouraged other than past winners?
yes, I have answered that question, Dave, go back, think, and look.
if you do not understand everything I have said, then you do not understand that this is the music of people, it is not the music of tin pan alley.
I will leave you with a quote from Ewan MacColl
My function is not to reassure people. I want to make them uncomfortable. To send them out of the place arguing and talking.
Ewan MacColl

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 02:28 PM

You asked a lot of questions, Dick. I did look back but did not spot any addressed directly to Allan. Sorry but unless you are specific in who you address your questions to we can only assume they were to anyone in general. I am unsure why you would say I cannot be bothered about something when I thought I had made a perfectly civil point. Each to his own I suppose.

Now, can you answer the question I asked? IE - Is there any good reason not to hold the folk awards? Addressed to Dick specifically but anyone can feel free to answer.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:49 PM

Dave, since you cannot be bothered to look back a short way
"can you give me of examples of performers they have encouraged other than past winners? "adressed to allan conn.
Dougie, as i understand it fed up with incessant requests for it, much as McTELL is fed up with requests for streets of london, understandably they enjoy the financial security, but they have both written better songs and artistically as i understand would wish that some of their other songs were given as much recognition.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Allan Conn
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:34 PM

One of the best known example of a folk performer's song getting its first real airing to a wide public by way of an advert. I'm sure Dougie wasn't somplaining

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX9h558Tz1E

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:04 PM

Thanks to Freddy Headey for spelling out how the BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards work: different system in Scotland for the MG ALBA Trad Awards, where ANYONE with any interest in folk music (and the various other categories) can submit nominations so long as they do it on the correct form, which is easily obtainable from the Hands Up for Trad website.
And Mo, we DO have a category for "Best dance band" - as well as other for "Best Pipe band", "Best tutor", "Biggest contribution to Folk/Trad in the media", "Up and coming", "Best venue", "Folk Club of the Year", "Best Festival" and of course, "Best Gaelic Singer".
As I understand a panel sorts through all the nominations, then issues a voting form with 4 people/bands to choose from, which again can be filled in by anyone: but at that point the hard CANVASSING of votes starts, so this is where I do start to have doubts about the validity of the awards: i.e. how many friends do you have? And no doubt some people will submit more than one voting form from different computers!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:03 PM

What is your question, Dick? There were a number a couple of posts ago and I don't propose to answer them all.

To come back on your last point above, folk song has been used in many adverts including a concertina playing fisherman. For Youngs fish products I think. I do not know if it ever appeared before or after an advert for Colgate but chances are it did at one time. I for one have never said the awards,(be they Radio or TV) were necessary but I cannot think of a reason not to hold them. Can you?

DtG

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 11:44 AM

can you answer my question,thankyou?
my point is that There are better ways to give folk music coverage and that giving it that sort of coverage is not as important as improving standards at grass root level.
If I took your argument and extrapolated it to an extreme, that any coverage is necessary,it could be argued why not give folk music as coverage between tooth paste advertisements.
John Manifold, Australian Folk song collector said and I quote "Folk song does not belong between toothpaste advertisements".
If you think it does,or you think these Radio awards are necessary we must agree to disagree.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 11:00 AM

Spot on, Allan.

Thanks

DtG

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Allan Conn
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 10:48 AM

In Ireland they have music awards too though. Whether you believe in awards or not it is simply incorrect to somehow suggest that British Folk music having awards is unusual. It would be more unusual not to have them. The Irish have traditional music awards broadcast just in a few days time on 19th Feb. See link below.

Don't most forms of art have them? Not just popular music but classical music too; and film and TV; and theatre; and literature both prose and poetry; and of course art itself; and away from the arts in general even science etc has awards.

And I think we would all agree that it would be better if folk music was given more general coverage - but I can't see how getting rid of the one thing that does give it a bit coverage would help with that! In every field of art the awards are newsworthy stories to at least some degree. Whether it is the Oscars, the Booker Price, the Turner Prize etc etc.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/the-best-of-traditional-music-2016-tg4-gradam-ceoil-award-winners-announced-1.2898009

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 10:33 AM

Again, why not just have everything? As I said, it is not a question of Awards OR something. It is Awards AND something. Surely the maxim must be the more the merrier?

DtG

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 10:24 AM

" I don't see them as a competition per se and they perform a valuable service in encouraging performers and bringing Folk music to a wider audience.
can you give me of examples of performers they have encouraged other than past winners?
There are MANY other ways of bringing Folk Music to a wider audience, In Ireland it is done by inclusion of traditional music on mainstream national radio and television programmes ON A WEEKLY AND DAILY BASIS., without the showbiz element of awards.
Morris dancing is a way that folk music is brought to a wider audiences in the past, Maritime festivals have also acheived this by appealing to people who are involved in maritime hobbies or who may work at sea and who then develop an interest in associated Music.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 10:20 AM

I still don't see why we cannot have workshops, tuition, folk clubs. floor singers, mega stars, concerts, awards and everything in between. None of them are mutually exclusive.

DtG

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Mike Daniels
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:46 AM

GSSchweik's view seems unnecessarily prescriptive/restrictive. There are many ways in which to enthuse/encourage/assist participants/performers of all ages re making music.

Workshops/Tuition is fine but may not necessarily be the preferred route for all.

It's probably best to see the R2 Awards as a celebration of the scene and its performers. I don't see them as a competition per se and they perform a valuable service in encouraging performers and bringing Folk music to a wider audience.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 06:52 AM

Dick has said in one line what it took me three paragraphs to say.
(So no change there then!)

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 04:09 AM

The future of folk music is in the hands of everyone regardless of age.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 04:06 AM

IMO,
Performance Encouragement for anyone of any age is best done through tuition and workshops.
how do awards encourage people and encourage higher standards for those who want to play music as an amateur? how do awards encourage people who do it either for a living or on a semi pro basis?,most pros and particularly semi pros carry on getting gigs regardless, these awards are not relevant for the majority of semi pro or pro performers.it is possible they may impress some people who are not performers.
how useful is that? will it help raise the overall standard of performance in this genre? what is the purpose of these awards?. do they provide income for the organisers?
What are the reasons for these awards?
do these awards encourage MANY PERFORMERS?
or do they just encourage those that win the awards[ who are of course a tiny proportion of the overall performers working on the uk folk scene].
I think more amateur performers and semi pros and even pros are encouraged in their playing by videos on you tube .
WILL FLY, channel is a good example, of how to raise competence levels.
I have found other videos and particularly PETE SEEGERS rainbow quest ILLUMINATING INTERESTING AND HELPFUL.
   One of the more useful things imo "as regards raising competence levels" the BBC ever did for folk music was Hold Down A Chord.
    now of course the BBC are less concerned about musical education but more about viewing numbers, none of which imo has anything to do with maintaining musical standards in the folk genre.
It uses the idea of a star system, which in my opinion is unhealthy, and belongs in the pop music world.
So the organisers of The BBC Folk Awards wish to make money, promote themselves and promote a few performers, BBC wish to increase their viewing audience, that is what these awards are about, Commercialising Folk Music and making money.
it is necessary IMO be Honest about this.   
These awards will promote avery snall proportion of artists, they will help BBC viewing, and provide money for the promoters, on the plus side they might introduce a few new people to the GENRE., but at the same time how many of those new people will become performers?
more likely IMO they WILL think that this music is NOT about home grown music, but about Folk Stars., about promotion and many of the things we see in the Pop Music Industry
However it is my honest opinion that this is not the best approach to introducing new people to the genre, in my opinion it is more important to help EVERYONE to keep the music to high standards in the other ways I suggested earlier.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:39 AM

Like it or not, the future of folk music is in the hands of young people.

Unless we encourage them, it will slowly disappear.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:19 AM

"i sympathise with those on the outside and think the folk tradition is weaker for their exclusion.

of course what both parties forget is that the tradition will adapt and survive and the demotic music of England will develop inspite of their efforts to affect its progress."
   no no non, we have a responsibilty to try and make sure the music is kept strong and survives and is of a good standard the way to do that is at grass roots level through workshops and tuition, it is not through having awards.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 01:57 PM

from reading the thread, i don't think the situation bears much analyses.

there are some people happy as sandboys with the present situation.

there are some who aren't.

i couldn't pretend to know which lot are right.

i suppose i straddle the two points of view.

i'm glad for the people on the happy chappies list that they've a scene going.

i sympathise with those on the outside and think the folk tradition is weaker for their exclusion.

of course what both parties forget is that the tradition will adapt and survive and the demotic music of England will develop inspite of their efforts to affect its progress.

the folk music scene is a tiny determinant on how the common people express themselves musically.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 01:28 PM

None of the above alters my opinion that Folk Awards are a mistake, regardless of who gets an award.
I have heard some good young performers, the way to improve and maintain standards is at grass root level, through workshops,or lessons.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 07:30 AM

Will Fly wrote:-
"I would have thought it was clear from my and Vic's description of a recent Brighton session that it is not an issue - and to make it so is just creating a false battleground. "

I would have thought that the point is self evident but let's spell it out:-

* There are some excellent performers on the folk scene and elsewhere, others who are fairly ordinary and some who are pretty dire and always will be. Age does not come into who falls into each category.

* There are some performers inside the folk scene who put a great deal into their performances and delight in what both they and those they admire achieve. There are others who are only concerned with themselves and they become embittered because they think they have not been given the recognition that they feel they deserve. Age does not come into who falls into each category.

* There are some older performers and enthusiasts who think that the young performers lack soul and are too concerned with presentation etc. and miss the point of the music. There are younger performers and others who want to tell those who have been performing for several decades that they know nothing and dismiss them as "old farts" - see above. Both these groups are wrong in their outlook.

I first started going to folk clubs I was still at school. Soon after leaving school I started my own folk club. I met and booked the likes of Packie Byrne, Belle Stewart, Jane Turriff, Bob Copper. I got to know all these people as friends even though they were old enough to be my grandparents. Now I am in my mid-seventies and have watched the likes of Jim Causley, Matt Quinn, the Askews grow up and develop as performers. They are young enough to be my grandchildren yet we always make time to chat to one another when we meet; I have even done quite a number of gigs with Matt.

I could go on but other points would be of a similar nature and would want to emphasise all POSITIVITY in people and regret all NEGATIVITY.
I am not one for quoting sayings or aphorisms but one that I frequently trot out is one that I have heard attributed to John Brunner, William Ralph or as I first heard it attributed to Jean-Jacques Rousseau

There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, " This is new, and therefore better."

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 05:37 AM

All good stuff there, Allan - very good music indeed. I particularly liked Kris Drever and Boo Hewerdine. Nothing whatsoever to fault or dislike.

One of the problems that some conventional folk clubs - as opposed to festivals - might have in booking some good contemporary acts is the actual cost of paying the artists. I don't know what fees full-time musicians charge these days - knowing that they have to pay the rent, etc. When I was on the road full-time for a spell - back in the early '80s (playing in a 3-piece band) - we earned enough playing 3 or 4 nights a week to get by. But that wasn't in folk clubs, it was in Trades & Labour Clubs, Legions, WMCs, etc. Playing to anything from 50 to 200 people at a time. The most lucrative stuff I do these days is weddings, birthdays and other functions in a ceilidh band - but I would have to be playing 5 nights a week to earn a living from it. Luckily, I don't have to do that.

Most pubs and clubs pay me and my guitar partner around £100 for an evening's entertainment - sometimes less, sometimes more, depending on how the gig is financed - and we do something like two 40-minute spots or equivalent. Can artists gigging full-time subsist on that? Probably not without other sources of income.

Festivals are on a bigger stage, attract crowds of people and can bring in more cash and publicity. I personally don't care for festivals, but they're immensely popular.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Allan Conn
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 04:31 AM

Will you stated that you just didn't believe in awards which is fair enough and a valid point to make. But others have actually criticised the recipients of the awards. Too obscure. College elites. And now they seemingly aren't even really folk artists at all. I think all these points are unfair!
I listed the gig stats because it does seem that these acts don't tend to play folk clubs that often. That maybe explains why some have never heard of them and it does suggest that there is a bit of a generational shift.
They are not all music college graduates – but even if they are it does not mean they weren't already immersed in their local folk scene.
And here is a few vids of some of the acts I have mentioned and are recipients. They may not be to everyone's liking but can anyone suitably explain why it is not folk music??




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjRwzEolrCc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05-ZoPfhrDQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-UwyyuMFEM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq0htznRMMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkERtyGnOtA

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 03:46 AM

Strange how this thread has morphed from being about the folk awards, and their value or otherwise, into an argument about age and young and old performers. What on earth has the age of a performer got to do with any of this?

I would have thought it was clear from my and Vic's description of a recent Brighton session that it is not an issue - and to make it so is just creating a false battleground.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 03:18 AM

Allan...."Things change"   I agree, these young performers have come up with a new genre......certainly not "folk music".

It is a genre without depth based on a search for a marketable sound.

I heard one modern darling saying how her music contains "filmic tones".......a new level in pretentiousness?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 08:26 PM

I have had nothing but respect and thanks from the younger singers I have met. One or two have taken songs from me (and credited me) and one has won a folk award with three songs from my early vinyl recordings on his Cd's.
I would like to think I have a good relationship with all of them.
I had a very special (to me) moment when Martyn Wyndham Read invited me on guitar and Cohen (Granny's Attic)on concertina on stage with him at the Grove Folk Club Leeds. Martyn Sang the Banks of Claudy. All three generations playing together! How special was that?
I really feel the music is safe in their hands, and I am genuinely excited for the future, and if this old voice of mine gives out in the next decade or so, I will hand over the flag with a good heart.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Capo da Monty
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 08:13 PM

Great to see Ninebarrow in the nominations for the Horizon Award.
They have been bringing their music to folk clubs and other venues around the UK and seem genuinely excited to be included.
I wish them well.
CdM

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Allan Conn
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 06:59 PM

Seems to me that there is plenty of younger performers out there but there seems to be a real rift between younger performers and the folk clubs as such. Which is maybe not surprising considering some of the negative attitudes on here. Had a quick look and for instance The Furrow Collective had 15 gigs coming up in the months ahead but none are at folk clubs as such. Three are at folk festivals and the rest are at other venue types. Alasdair Roberts has 17 gigs coming up with only one (Bodmin Folk Club) which is actually at a folk club. Daori Farrell has 17 gigs coming up and again only one (Roots Music Club Doncaster) is at a club. Kris Drever has 7 gigs coming up and only one (Milngavie Folk Club) is at a club. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe a mixture of clubs not wanting these upstarts or maybe the performers maybe not wanting to play to what they may perceive as a predominantly old audience. Or more likely it is just the way things have panned out. Things change.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 04:56 PM

i can't see that it matters.

its obviously creating a degree of ill feeling. i really can't see irs worth getting worked up about. its horses for courses.

some horses aren't welcome on this course. it still leaves us the world to gambol in - and that's pretty good.

why would you want to go where you're not welcome?