BS: Israel's Sharpville

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 18 - 02:49 PM

So now you tell me you are Catholic..

I did not say I am Catholic, what I said is that I attended Catholic school. There are some things one grows out of.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 02:31 PM

Bob - I only ever see what you write in the few BS threads that take my interest...

For some time you certainly had me treading carefully in case I offended your Jewish sensitivities...
Let's just say you might have 'inadvertently' written in a tone that suggested you were Jewish...???

It reached the point where, a few threads ago, I stuck my neck out and bluntly asked you to clarify that..
So now you tell me you are Catholic..
Ok, I will regard that disclosure with appropriate respect....

"I don't know what's happened to you, you used to be mildly entertaining but you've become bitter and angry with your passive/aggressive postings. I surmise it's the influence of the crowd you've chosen to associate with, you're not the first to have had it happen."

I'm no sap for peer pressure.. ever since I was a teenage punk rocker
who refused to accept the norms and restraints of being a punk rocker...

That's the laid back South West individualist vibe I grew up with...

ooh.. Luckily I only press 'enter' with a sardonic wry smile...
if only I didn't have to be so self restrained and cautious in what I post...
It's a pain in the arse constantly remaining in 'tactful' mode...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 01:54 PM

Incidentally
"Great propaganda piece, JC. But WAY too long-"
Bobad holds the record for longest postings by far with his six-pages worth of Islamophobic filth claiming Muslims have been musderous cultural degenerate since Roman times - all gleaned from extremist racist sites such as 'Muslim-Watch' and 'White Supremacist'
If you would like me to link you to it, I'm think I can oblige - I'm sure you don't
The rest of your postings, especially the claim that nuclear facilitated Israel is fighting for its existence from attacks by poorly armed, poorly trained Third-World Arabs - has been dealt with ad-nausem
Do me the courtesy of actually reading what I put up before you accuse me of having nothing to offer other than personal abuse
You really do dig yourself some holes with your "perrsonal abuse, don't you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 18 - 01:45 PM

K**** and bob have been playing a long time sly game of writing 'as if' they might be,

I don't know where you get that from PFR, I have never made any pretense to being Jewish, on the contrary I have mentioned on more than one occasion that I am not and have even mentioned my having attended Catholic school.

I don't know what's happened to you, you used to be mildly entertaining but you've become bitter and angry with your passive/aggressive postings. I surmise it's the influence of the crowd you've chosen to associate with, you're not the first to have had it happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 01:45 PM

"with nothing but support for his personnel attacks? "
Would you like to put the actual documented amount you have put into this argument next to mine
Similarly, would you lime to list my personal abuse next to the amount I have received from you and your supporters
In both cases, as with your accusations of "Jew hater" and "antisemite, name your charity and I will repeat my offer of a generous donation
To say have nothing to offer but personal abuse is a blatant lie, but you are free to not only prove me wrong and make a few quid for you favourite cat's him or whatever.
Your statement is a fine example of dishonest personal abuse, and it is not very bright to accuse someone of personal abuse by personally abusing them
Did nobody ever tell you that?
Ready - steady - go
"Jim Carrol's pretence at being their friend and protector"
You mean like you and Bobad were when when he trivailised the situation if the six-million Jews about to go to their deaths in the Nazi extermination camps
as with the above, I think you're on a bit of a non-starter on that one too
Thank you for that PFR - the cheque's in the post
"most noticeable foibles" - how dare you - expect a visit from my big brother !
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:24 PM

Bruce - simple answer, Jim is more than just his views on Israel....!!!!!
He is an inspirational champion and archivist for his speciality in British folk music,
a fiercely old school socialist internationalist, with an acute understanding of domestic UK politics,
which is a 'bias' I identify with more than the far right...
and a sprightly entertaining writer...

For all his most noticeable foibles, I like the bloke..
even when I disagree with him...

K**** however is..............

Btw - I'm glad you are so upfront with your Jewish identity...
It's so refreshing..
K**** and bob have been playing a long time sly game of writing 'as if' they might be,
only in order to trick readers into sympathising with their vicious arbitrary
denouncements of anti semitism...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:10 PM

PFR,

"You are the kind of extremist I find most despicable,
with your nasty strategy of "if you are not with us, you are against us""

Yet you tolerate that exact strategy from JC with nothing but support for his personnel attacks?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:08 PM

PFR,

Anyone reading - I only have 100% Jewish blood and gentetic heritage,
but I suggest any mudcatters of any religious background should regard Jim Carrol's pretence at being their friend and protector
with extreme caution..

He only seems to find problems in Israel, even when the problems are as great or greater elsewhere.

As I have posted, I grew up across the street from a Palestinian family from Ramallah- of one of the founding 6 families Christian. I know Jewish families driven out of West Bank towns, as well, and from other Arab League nations. As long as JC blames ONLY the Israelis for the problems of that region, he is doomed to have no positive effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 11:59 AM

Bruce - friends can be over-rated, enemies stimulate the mind...
and variety is the spice of life...

I like the idea of people, and try to look for the best in individuals...
a bit too idealistic I suppose...???


                      ==============


Anyone reading - I only have quarter jewish blood and gentetic heritage,
but I suggest any Jewish mudcatters should regard K***'s pretence at being their friend and protector
with extreme caution...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 18 - 11:42 AM

Great propaganda piece, JC.

But WAY too long- I have been threatened with being banned for posting half that much.

So now will you present what you WANT the Israelis to do? Roll over and let themselves be killed?

I do NOT see any mention of the war crimes of the Palestinians. Perhaps a balanced picture would be useful in looking at the region? Or is it ONLY the Israelis that are supposed to go by your rules?

How about the proven ethnic cleaning, from 1948 to 1967, of Jews and Christians from the West Bank?o THEY get to throw bombs and burning tires at the Palestinians? And if not, why not?

Let us balance the 640,000 Palestinians driven out or fled from Israel in 1948 with the 820,000 JEWS ( NOT ISRAELIS) drives out of Arab League nations at that time. over half a million of them were settled in Israel. How many Palestinians were settled in Arab League ( the other side of the conflict ) nations.

Not counting the concentration camps the ARABS put the Palestinians into, to keep them as a wedge against Israel.






You state: "How dare you attack other contributors to this thread"

HOW DARE YOU??? I see that you have attacked each and every person who has either posted something you disagree with, or refused to believe YOUR propaganda. NOT their comments, but the people themselves.



PFR,

You may choose your friends, but do not let them choose your enemies.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 11:37 AM

K**** - btw.. I suspect Joe only puts up with you because he is such a decent tolerant wise human being...

Joe deserves respect - you never will..

..and before you flail back like a petty resentful toddler

..yes, I expect I also get on his nerves, but I would hope not to the extent you do...!!!??????

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 11:29 AM

"What is your view? You have never actually expressed any view in this debate about anything."

I thought you knew - you constantly make it up and express it for me..
Saves me the effort of putting my own words in my own mouth..

..of course you always contrive to put the wrong words in my mouth, most often the exact opposite of what I actually say for myself...!!!

I have expressed my ideas countless times in various threads over the years,
and you persist in ignoring or distorting what I actually say...

You are the kind of extremist I find most despicable,
with your nasty strategy of "if you are not with us, you are against us"

When I openly disagree, or ridicule your boneheaded bigoted presumptions,
you retaliate with hysterical accusations of people like me are extreme left enemies of western democracy...

What is worse, you insist your warped personal view of reality represents normal decent middle of the road values...

Not just, 'laughable', but dementedly vindictive, and a pernicious threat to the well being of mudcat community ...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 11:15 AM

How dare you canvas others for their opinions?
How dare you attack other contributors to this thread
How dare you use Joe to attack another member
You are not a moderator - you have no right to behave as you are
Respond to the arguments
Your "personal attacks are the direct result of your admitted antisemitism - personally, I would treat anybody who has made an attack on the Jewish people as you have,
my grandmothetr took to the streets to oppose people who dismissed accusations that the Jews were being persecuted as nonsense, as you did
"
Tell us what you think please, IF YOU DO THINK"
If you make insulting attacks like this on fellow members you deserve every personal attack you receive
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 18 - 10:23 AM

PFR, Joe said this about Greg.
"he was just trying very, very hard to be accepted by the "in crowd," even when he had no understanding of whatever was being discussed"

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 18 - 10:18 AM

PFR, Steve and Jim support BDS.
What is your view? You have never actually expressed any view in this debate about anything.
Just made personal attacks against Bobad, Bruce and me.

Tell us what you think please, if you do think.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 18 - 10:13 AM

PFR, you have yet to make any serious point in this whole debate.
Is saying that really an " outrageous attack" on your "reputation" ??

Laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 09:49 AM

That was of course in response to K****'s outrageous attack on my reputation
[yes.. even I've got one - found it half price in an end of year clearance blow out sale...]...
His post may be a bit lost and disconnected from mine, up above Jim's big red ones...

bob - swastika...???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 09:39 AM

This is like trying to hold a rational conversation with a nutter
who stands all day in in the town square wearing a placard protesting...

"Eating Red jam sandwiches will make you children communists...!!!"

Everything this buffoon accuses me of is utter nonsense,
just a delusional manifestation of his mangled thinking and prejudices...

The main point I'll indulge him by addressing is:

I have never been a supporter of Palestine, or given any reasonable cause to be suspected of such.

This is just a claim made by a self preserving fool
thrashing about for any package of paranoid right wing stereotypes of 'lefties' to discredit me with...

The other insults are too ludicrous to even be bothered disputing..

I have more important things to do with my time,
like going downstairs to get a mug of tea and biscuits
and plot the downfall of western civilisation...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 09:32 AM

Sorry - apologies for misjuging forum fairies
Didn't go far enough up postings - please remove last posting
Jim Carroll
Amnesty International
Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories 2017/2018

Back to Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories
Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories 2017/2018
June marked 50 years since Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian Territories and the start of the 11th year of its illegal blockade of the Gaza Strip, subjecting approximately 2 million inhabitants to collective punishment and a growing humanitarian crisis. The Israeli authorities intensified expansion of settlements and related infrastructure across the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and severely restricted the freedom of movement of Palestinians. Israeli forces unlawfully killed Palestinian civilians, including children, and unlawfully detained within Israel thousands of Palestinians from the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), holding hundreds in administrative detention without charge or trial. Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees, including children, remained pervasive and was committed with impunity. Israel continued to demolish Palestinian homes in the West Bank and in Palestinian villages inside Israel, forcibly evicting residents. Conscientious objectors to military service were imprisoned. Thousands of African asylum-seekers were threatened with deportation.
Background

Israeli authorities intensified settlement expansion and land appropriation in the OPT. US and international efforts to revive negotiations failed, and Israeli-Palestinian relations remained tense. In January, Israeli authorities passed the so-called “regularization law” that retroactively legalized the settler takeover of thousands of hectares of privately owned Palestinian land and an estimated 4,500 settler homes. In addition, Israeli authorities announced and issued tenders for tens of thousands of new settlement units in East Jerusalem and across the rest of the West Bank.

Palestinians carried out stabbings, car-rammings, shootings and other attacks against Israelis in the West Bank and in Israel. The attacks, mostly carried out by individuals unaffiliated to armed groups, killed 14 Israelis and one foreign national. Israeli forces killed 76 Palestinians and one foreign national. Some were unlawfully killed while posing no threat to life.

In March, the UN Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia issued, then withdrew, a report determining Israel to be “guilty of the crime of apartheid” against Palestinians. In May, a UNESCO resolution reaffirmed the occupied status of East Jerusalem and criticized Israel’s conduct in the city. Following the killing of two Israeli policemen by Palestinians, in July Israel installed metal detectors to screen Muslim worshippers entering the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif. The new security measures led to heightened tensions and mass protests by Palestinians, including collective prayers, across the West Bank. The prayer protests, often met with excessive force, ended once the metal detectors were removed.

In September, the Hamas de facto administration in Gaza and the “national consensus” government in the West Bank embarked on a reconciliation process, which was rejected by Israel.

In December, US President Donald Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital in violation of international law, sparking widespread protests across the OPT and globally.
Freedom of movement – Gaza blockade and West Bank restrictions

Israel’s illegal air, land and sea blockade of the Gaza Strip entered its 11th year, continuing the long-standing restrictions on the movement of people and goods into and from the area, collectively punishing Gaza’s entire population. Combined with Egypt’s almost total closure of the Rafah border crossing, and the West Bank authorities’ punitive measures, Israel’s blockade triggered a humanitarian crisis with electricity cuts reducing access to electricity from an average of eight hours per day down to as little as two to four hours, affecting clean water and sanitation and diminishing health service access, and rendering Gaza increasingly “unlivable” according to the UN. Gaza’s economy deteriorated further and post-conflict reconstruction of civilian infrastructure remained severely hindered; some 23,500 Palestinians remained displaced since the 2014 conflict. Many patients with life-threatening illnesses were unable to access treatment outside Gaza due to Israeli restrictions and delays by West Bank authorities in processing referrals. Israeli forces maintained a “buffer zone” inside Gaza’s border with Israel and used live ammunition against Palestinians who entered or approached it, wounding farmers working in the area. Israeli forces also fired at Palestinian fishermen in or near the “exclusion zone” along Gaza’s coastline, killing at least one and injuring others.

In the West Bank, Israel maintained an array of military checkpoints, bypass roads and military and firing zones, restricting Palestinian access and travel. Israel established new checkpoints and barriers, especially in East Jerusalem. In response to Palestinian attacks on Israelis, the military authorities imposed collective punishment; they revoked the work permits of attackers’ family members and closed off villages and entire areas including Silwad, Deir Abu Mishal and Beit Surik.

In Hebron, long-standing prohibitions limiting Palestinian presence, tightened in October 2015, remained in force. In Hebron’s Tel Rumeida neighbourhood, a “closed military zone”, Israeli forces subjected Palestinian residents to oppressive searches and prevented the entry of other Palestinians while allowing free movement for Israeli settlers. In May, Israel erected a new checkpoint and a new fence barrier within Hebron’s H2 area, arbitrarily confining the Palestinian Gheith neighbourhood and segregating a street alongside the area.
Arbitrary arrests and detentions

Israel detained or continued to imprison thousands of Palestinians from the OPT, mostly in prisons in Israel, in violation of international law. Many detainees’ families, particularly those in Gaza, were not permitted entry to Israel to visit their relatives.

The authorities continued to substitute administrative detention for criminal prosecution, holding hundreds of Palestinians, including children, civil society leaders and NGO workers, without charge or trial under renewable orders, based on information withheld from detainees and their lawyers. More than 6,100 Palestinians, including 441 administrative detainees, were held in Israeli prisons at the end of the year. Israeli authorities also placed six Palestinian citizens of Israel under administrative detention.

In April around 1,500 Palestinian prisoners and detainees launched a 41-day hunger-strike to demand better conditions, family visits, an end to solitary confinement and administrative detention, and access to education. The Israeli Prison Service punished hunger-striking detainees, using solitary confinement, fines, and denial of family visits.

Palestinians from the West Bank charged with protest-related and other offences faced unfair military trials, while Israeli civilian courts trying Palestinians from East Jerusalem or the Gaza Strip issued harsh sentences even for minor offences.

In April the Israeli High Court of Justice issued a decision to reduce excessive sentencing of Palestinians under the military judicial system and ordered that legislation be amended to apply shorter sentences as of May 2018. Despite the ruling, the sentences would remain harsher than those in the Israeli civilian judicial system.

Khalida Jarrar, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council and board member of the NGO Addameer, and Addameer staff member Salah Hammouri, remained in administrative detention at the end of the year.

The trial of Mohammed al-Halabi, a Gaza-based humanitarian worker, began at Beer Sheva District Court on charges of embezzlement from the NGO World Vision to fund Hamas. Neither an Australian government review of World Vision Gaza nor an internal World Vision audit found any evidence to support the charges. Mohammed al-Halabi stated in court that he was tortured during interrogation and detention.
Torture and other ill-treatment

Israeli soldiers and police and Israel Security Agency officers subjected Palestinian detainees, including children, to torture and other ill-treatment with impunity, particularly during arrest and interrogation. Reported methods included beatings, slapping, painful shackling, sleep deprivation, use of stress positions and threats. No criminal investigations were opened into more than 1,000 complaints filed since 2001. Complaints of torture and other ill-treatment by the Israeli police against asylum-seekers and members of the Ethiopian community remained common.

In December the Israeli High Court of Justice accepted the Attorney General’s decision not to open a criminal investigation into Asad Abu Ghosh’s torture claims despite credible evidence, thus condoning the continued use of stress positions and sleep deprivation against Palestinian detainees by Israeli interrogators.
Unlawful killings

Israeli soldiers, police and security guards killed at least 75 Palestinians from the OPT, including East Jerusalem, and five Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. Some of those killed were shot while attacking Israelis or suspected of intending an attack. Many, including children, were shot and unlawfully killed while posing no immediate threat to life. Some killings, such as that of Yacoub Abu al-Qi’an, shot in his car by police in Umm al-Hiran in January, appeared to have been extrajudicial executions.
Excessive use of force

Israeli forces, including undercover units, used excessive and sometimes lethal force when they used rubber-coated metal bullets and live ammunition against Palestinian protesters in the OPT, killing at least 20, and injuring thousands. Many protesters threw rocks or other projectiles but were posing no threat to the lives of well-protected Israeli soldiers when they were shot. In July, in response to the tensions over Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, the authorities killed 10 Palestinians and injured more than 1,000 during the dispersal of demonstrations, and conducted at least two violent raids on al-Makassed hospital in East Jerusalem. In December, wheelchair user Ibrahim Abu Thuraya was shot in the head by an Israeli soldier as he was sitting with a group of protesters near the fence separating Gaza from Israel.
Freedoms of expression, association and assembly

The authorities used a range of measures, both in Israel and the OPT, to target human rights defenders who criticized Israel’s continuing occupation.

In March the Knesset (parliament) passed an amendment to the Entry into Israel Law banning entry into Israel or the OPT to anyone supporting or working for an organization that has issued or promoted a call to boycott Israel or Israeli entities, including settlements. The authorities continued to obstruct human rights workers’ attempts to document the situation by denying them entry into the OPT, including the UN Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in the OPT. An Amnesty International staff member was denied entry after he was questioned about the organization’s work on settlements.

Using public order laws in East Jerusalem, and military orders in the rest of the West Bank, Israeli authorities prohibited and suppressed protests by Palestinians, and arrested and prosecuted protesters and human rights defenders. In July, the military trials of Palestinian human rights defenders Issa Amro and Farid al-Atrash began on charges related to their role in organizing peaceful protests against Israel’s settlement policies. Israeli authorities continued to harass other Hebron-based human rights activists, including Badi Dweik and Imad Abu Shamsiya, and failed to protect them from settler attacks.

From May to August, the Israeli authorities detained prisoner of conscience and writer Ahmad Qatamesh under a three-month administrative detention order solely on account of his non-violent political activities and writing.

Palestinian human rights NGOs, including Al-Haq, Al Mezan and Addameer, encountered increased levels of harassment by Israeli authorities. Israeli authorities initiated tax investigations against Omar Barghouti, a prominent advocate of the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign, in what appeared to be an effort to silence his work.

Several Israeli human rights organizations, including Breaking the Silence, Gisha, B’tselem and Amnesty International Israel were also targeted by government campaigns to undermine their work, and faced smears, stigmatization and threats.
right to Housing – forced evictions and demolitions

In the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, the Israeli authorities carried out a large number of demolitions of Palestinian property, including 423 homes and structures built without Israeli permits that remained virtually impossible for Palestinians to obtain, forcibly evicting more than 660 people. Many of these demolitions were in Bedouin and herding communities that the Israeli authorities planned to forcibly transfer. The authorities also collectively punished the families of Palestinians who had carried out attacks on Israelis, by demolishing or making uninhabitable their family homes, forcibly evicting approximately 50 people.

Israeli authorities forcibly evicted eight members of the Shamasneh family from their home in Sheikh Jarrah, East Jerusalem, allowing Jewish settlers to move in. The authorities also demolished dozens of Palestinian homes inside Israel that they said were built without permits, including in Palestinian towns and villages in the Triangle, the Galilee, and in “unrecognized” Bedouin villages in the Negev/Naqab region. In January the Israeli police forcibly demolished the Bedouin village of Umm al-Hiran, to begin building a Jewish town in its place. The Knesset passed a law in April that raised the fines for building without permits, charging punitive costs for the demolition to those whose homes have been demolished, and limited recourse to the courts for those challenging demolition or eviction orders. In August, the authorities demolished al-Araqib village in the Negev/Naqab for the 116th time. Residents were ordered to compensate the state 362,000 new shekels (approximately USD100,000) for the cost of demolition and lawyers’ fees.
Impunity

More than three years after the end of the 2014 Gaza-Israel conflict, in which some 1,460 Palestinian civilians were killed, many in evidently unlawful attacks including war crimes, the authorities had previously indicted only three soldiers for looting and obstructing an investigation.

In a rare move, in January an Israeli military court convicted Elor Azaria, a soldier whose apparent extrajudicial execution of a wounded Palestinian in Hebron was filmed, of manslaughter. His conviction and 18-month prison sentence, which was confirmed on appeal but reduced by four months by Israel’s military Chief of Staff in September, failed to reflect the gravity of the crime. Israeli authorities failed to investigate, or closed investigations into, cases of alleged unlawful killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces in both Israel and the OPT.

The Prosecutor of the ICC continued her preliminary examination of alleged crimes under international law committed in the OPT since 13 June 2014.
Violence against women and girls

There were new reports of violence against women; Palestinian communities in Israel were particularly affected. In June, the Special Rapporteur on violence against women issued recommendations urging Israeli authorities to carry out law and policy reforms by integrating CEDAW standards; to combat and prevent violence against women in Israel and the OPT; and to investigate reported abuses.
Deprivation of nationality

On 6 August the Haifa District Court confirmed the citizenship revocation of Alaa Zayoud, who was stripped of his citizenship and rendered stateless by the Minister of the Interior following a conviction for attempted murder. An appeal against the decision was pending before the Supreme Court at the end of the year. The authorities also revoked the citizenship of dozens of Palestinian Bedouin residents of the Negev/Naqab region without process or appeal, leaving them as stateless residents.
Refugees and asylum-seekers

The authorities continued to deny asylum-seekers, more than 90% of whom were from Eritrea or Sudan, access to a fair or prompt refugee status determination process. More than 1,200 asylum-seekers were held at the Holot detention facility and at Saharonim Prison in the Negev/Naqab desert at the end of the year. According to activists, there were more than 35,000 asylum-seekers in Israel; 8,588 asylum claims remained pending. In December, the Knesset passed an amendment to the anti-infiltration law that would force asylum-seekers and refugees to accept relocation to countries in Africa or face imprisonment. Tens of thousands were at risk of deportation.
Conscientious objectors

At least six Israeli conscientious objectors to military service were imprisoned, including Tamar Zeevi, Atalia Ben-Abba, Noa Gur Golan, Hadas Tal, Mattan Helman and Ofir Averbukh. Israeli authorities recognized Tamar Zeevi as a conscientious objector and released her from conscription after she served a total of 100 days in prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 09:24 AM

I've just put up an article counteracting Bobad's insistence on presenting Israeli propaganda - I don't know if it has been removed or I failed to send it
It seems to me that, if Keith and Bobad are allowed to just repeat Israeli propaganda, I should be allowed to show why these demonstrations are taking place, otherwise there is no point in leaving this thread open
This is supposed to be a discussion, not an opportunity to denigrate victims of a massacre
I would be grateful for a response to this
Try again
50 YEARS of ISRAELI OCCUPATION ABUSES
Jim Carroll

Jerusalem Home Demolitions Harm Children
Paying the Price of Occupation
Bill Van Esveld
Senior Researcher, MENA, Children's Rights Division @billvanesveld
Ashraf Fawaqa and his daughter Sima, 4, stand next to the rubble of their East Jerusalem home on May 15; Israeli authorities demolished the house on May 4 because they lacked a permit.
Expand
Ashraf Fawaqa and his daughter Saba, 4, stand next to the rubble of their East Jerusalem home on May 15; Israeli authorities demolished the house on May 4 because they lacked a permit. © 2017 Private
Ashraf and Islam Fawaqa were at a hospital checkup for their month-old daughter, Aya, on May 4, when Ashraf got a phone call that Israeli forces were demolishing their home.
Ashraf had built the house himself, six years ago, on land his family has owned for generations in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sur Baher. Ashraf, a building contractor, works on projects for the Jerusalem municipality.
But Ashraf, like many Palestinians in East Jerusalem, couldn’t obtain a building permit for his home. Israel has zoned only about 12 percent of the land there for Palestinian residential construction, and most of the zoned area is already overcrowded. The United Nations has estimated that 90,000 Palestinians in East Jerusalem live in homes without permits. By contrast, Israel has zoned 35 percent of the land in East Jerusalem for Jewish settlement construction. Municipal planning documents have had the stated goal of ensuring that Palestinians are a minority in the city.
In 2011, Ashraf said he paid 60,000 shekels (US$17,000) in fines for having built his home without a permit. When he received the demolition order for the same reason, early in 2017, he paid a fine of 25,000 shekels ($7,000) to delay it so his family would still have a home when Islam gave birth.
Members of the Fawaqa family sit in a tent on May 15; Israeli authorities demolished their home in East Jerusalem on May 4.
Expand
Members of the Fawaqa family sit in a tent on May 15; Israeli authorities demolished their home in East Jerusalem on May 4. © 2017 Private
On May 4, his time ran out. At an emergency hearing that day, a Jerusalem district court judge found that the “freeze” of the demolition order had expired, and no more extensions were possible.
The wrecking crew finished the job that same afternoon.
Under Israeli law, Ashraf will have to pay a fine and fees to cover the cost of demolishing his home, a bill he estimates could run to 150,000 shekels (US$42,000).
But what will be the cost to Aya, and her sisters Saba, 4, Rimas, 7, and Ritaj, 9? The mental health consequences of home demolitions for Palestinian children, one study found, include “somatic complaints, depression/anxiety, and higher rates of delusional, obsessive, compulsive and psychotic thoughts.”
“Islam and the baby are both doing well,” Ashraf told Human Rights Watch last week, sounding for a moment like any other new father. “But it has been hard on all of us.” His older daughters now come home from school to a tent pitched beside the rubble of their house.
On May 4, Israeli forces demolished nine other Palestinian buildings in East Jerusalem. In 2016, Israeli demolitions left 254 Palestinians homeless, around half of them children, in most cases because buildings lacked permits.
The international law of occupation, which applies to East Jerusalem, prohibits the destruction of property except for reasons of military necessity. For decades, Israeli officials have violated these prohibitions with impunity. Families like the Fawaqas are paying the price.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 18 - 09:24 AM

Just a boring parade of propaganda...

The only propaganda I am aware of, and have shown it to be so, is that the protests are peaceful.

Remember this quote from Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar: "We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies"

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 18 - 09:15 AM

Jim,
You are putting only "the other side"

That is true. And you are putting only put the Palestinian case. What is the problem?

PFR,
Pretending you are merely a neutral player engaging in academic debating game play
does not absolve you of responsibility or guilt for your blatant reactionary bias,
or fool any of us...!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not claim to be neutral any more than you or Jim could.

Reuters put Israel's case in their report I quoted yesterday. If a responsible and neutral news agency can put both sides why can't we on Mudcat?

Your views on this are quite extreme. Few in the West agree with you.
You must allow the other case to be put.

You are welcome to challenge it, but not to say anyone who disagrees is a racist, fascist defenders of mass murder.
Most people do disagree with you on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 18 - 09:02 AM

A Palestinian video aired on Al Jazeera over the weekend shows demonstrators at Friday’s Gaza border protests breaching the border and entering Israeli territory unchallenged.

Around 15 people can be seen in the clip crossing over to the Israeli side of the security fence. The protesters are then seen running around, celebrating. One wearing a Guy Fawkes mask and brandishing a butcher’s knife jumps up and down while crying “Allahu Akbar.”

After a short time the protesters are apparently spotted by Israeli troops, and can be seen running back into Gaza.

VIDEO - ToI

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:47 AM

"My posts are about what is happening in Gaza. "
Your posts are 150% distortions of what is happening in Gaza from the point of view of the criminal
If you had the slightest interest in Gaza (or the Jewish People as a whole for that matter) you would enter into honest debate rather than trawling up Goebbels-like propaganda
You are every bit as inhuman as Keith, but at least he makes an effort (sort of) to back up what he is saying
Anybody can simply repeat what the massive propaganda machine is turning out - that is simply trolling - not debate
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:46 AM

"uncomfortable"

Bob - Don't be so silly - you seem to think your perceived 'opponents' are delicate over sensitive flowers...???

Your daily bulletins of outrage are not significantly very different from each other in essence or purpose.
Just a boring parade of propaganda...

Looked up the history and meaning of the ancient swastika symbol for muslims yet...???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:27 AM

Joe & Jim - I watched episode 3 of "Story of the Jews" last night - that's my favourite so far..

Spinoza is a name I've not heard since History of Ideas module of my degree..
Scharma portrayed him as a very cool philosopher - my kind of bloke...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:26 AM

no need to get so hysterical posting every single scrap of daily 'news' footage
to reinforce how much you disapprove of them..

This thread is about what is happening in Gaza. My posts are about what is happening in Gaza. If they make you uncomfortable you don't have to read them.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:26 AM

Fine by me if this is the way you want to go Bobad
Jim Carroll

50 YEARS of ISRAELI OCCUPATION ABUSES

And
Jerusalem Home Demolitions Harm Children
Paying the Price of Occupation
Bill Van Esveld
Senior Researcher, MENA, Children's Rights Division @billvanesveld

Ashraf Fawaqa and his daughter Sima, 4, stand next to the rubble of their East Jerusalem home on May 15; Israeli authorities demolished the house on May 4 because they lacked a permit.
Ashraf Fawaqa and his daughter Saba, 4, stand next to the rubble of their East Jerusalem home on May 15; Israeli authorities demolished the house on May 4 because they lacked a permit. © 2017 Private
Ashraf and Islam Fawaqa were at a hospital checkup for their month-old daughter, Aya, on May 4, when Ashraf got a phone call that Israeli forces were demolishing their home.
Ashraf had built the house himself, six years ago, on land his family has owned for generations in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sur Baher. Ashraf, a building contractor, works on projects for the Jerusalem municipality.
But Ashraf, like many Palestinians in East Jerusalem, couldn’t obtain a building permit for his home. Israel has zoned only about 12 percent of the land there for Palestinian residential construction, and most of the zoned area is already overcrowded. The United Nations has estimated that 90,000 Palestinians in East Jerusalem live in homes without permits. By contrast, Israel has zoned 35 percent of the land in East Jerusalem for Jewish settlement construction. Municipal planning documents have had the stated goal of ensuring that Palestinians are a minority in the city.
In 2011, Ashraf said he paid 60,000 shekels (US$17,000) in fines for having built his home without a permit. When he received the demolition order for the same reason, early in 2017, he paid a fine of 25,000 shekels ($7,000) to delay it so his family would still have a home when Islam gave birth.
Members of the Fawaqa family sit in a tent on May 15; Israeli authorities demolished their home in East Jerusalem on May 4.
Expand
Members of the Fawaqa family sit in a tent on May 15; Israeli authorities demolished their home in East Jerusalem on May 4. © 2017 Private
On May 4, his time ran out. At an emergency hearing that day, a Jerusalem district court judge found that the “freeze” of the demolition order had expired, and no more extensions were possible.
The wrecking crew finished the job that same afternoon.
Under Israeli law, Ashraf will have to pay a fine and fees to cover the cost of demolishing his home, a bill he estimates could run to 150,000 shekels (US$42,000).
But what will be the cost to Aya, and her sisters Saba, 4, Rimas, 7, and Ritaj, 9? The mental health consequences of home demolitions for Palestinian children, one study found, include “somatic complaints, depression/anxiety, and higher rates of delusional, obsessive, compulsive and psychotic thoughts.”
“Islam and the baby are both doing well,” Ashraf told Human Rights Watch last week, sounding for a moment like any other new father. “But it has been hard on all of us.” His older daughters now come home from school to a tent pitched beside the rubble of their house.
On May 4, Israeli forces demolished nine other Palestinian buildings in East Jerusalem. In 2016, Israeli demolitions left 254 Palestinians homeless, around half of them children, in most cases because buildings lacked permits.
The international law of occupation, which applies to East Jerusalem, prohibits the destruction of property except for reasons of military necessity. For decades, Israeli officials have violated these prohibitions with impunity. Families like the Fawaqas are paying the price.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:23 AM

"No. Just putting the other side of the story.
Is that wrong?"

Yes.. and you know it..

Stop playing the innocent...
you've been doing the same sly thing so persistently and obviously for so long - it reeks...

Pretending you are merely a neutral player engaging in academic debating game play
does not absolve you of responsibility or guilt for your blatant reactionary bias,
or fool any of us...!!!!!!!!!!!

Who do you think is taken in by you
out of the miniscule number of people who bother reading this crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:02 AM

Hamas-sponsored terrorists set the only cargo and fuel crossing ablaze. Kerem Shalom is the lifeline for 2 million of Gazans.

Everyday Israel provides and sends hundreds of trucks laden with food, medical supplies, building materials, cooking gas and gasoline into Gaza.

The Gaza side that was ransacked, is the receiving depot. When Hamas complains that Gaza is not getting fuel for its power station, remind them that last week 2,370 trucks trucks carrying 72,345 tons of humanitarian aid entered Gaza from Israel. The cargo consisted of 50,800 tons of building material, 8,020 tons of food, 1,597 fuel tanks and 1,486 tons of gas.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 06:13 AM

Yes Keith - Mass murderers and Fascists
You are putting only "the other side" and ignoring the fact that so far over 40 unarmed protestors have been massacred and 1,700 wounded by live-fire rounds
You pair are doing for the Israelis what David Irving did for the Nazis
"Is that wrong"
No it is evil and inhuman
That's my ration of communication wth you - don'r expect more - my stomach is not up to conversations with you
Jim Carroll

From Haaretz
"Gaza Doctors: Israeli Fire at Border Protests Causing Wounds Not Seen Since 2014 War
ome 1,700 wounded within month - Doctors say wounds 'devastating,' most will result in disabilities
W.H.O.: Lack of medical equipment endangering wounded
Amira Hass Apr 22, 2018 9:12 AM
Palestinian medics evacuate a wounded protester during clashes with Israeli forces on April 20, 2018, east of Khan Yunis, in the southern Gaza Strip during mass protests along the border of the Palestinian enclave, dubbed "The Great March of Return," which has the backing of Gaza's Islamist rulers Hamas.

Photo
Palestinian medics evacuate a wounded protester during clashes with Israeli forces on April 20, 2018.SAID KHATIB/AFP

Killing of Gaza protesters undermines Israel's claims of self-defense
Hamas blames Israel for hit on Palestinian engineer: The war has shifted abroad
After international criticism, Israeli army investigating death of 15-year-old Gazan
The live-fire wounds suffered by more than 1,700 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip over the past month have been unusually severe, Palestinian and foreign doctors say."
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/.premium-gaza-doctors-injuries-in-border-protests-worst-since-2014-war-1.6014013

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 18 - 05:40 AM

You are making this thread a propaganda exercise for the mass murder of unarmed people

No. Just putting the other side of the story.
Is that wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 18 - 05:27 AM

Personally, I believe you are using the Jewish People top defend fascism and mass murder

Really Jim? Defenders of mass murder? Fascists?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:45 AM

"Remarkable firsthand footage"
From an unknown source with an anonymous commentator
You can denigrate the victims all you like, just as the Aparthied regime justified the slaughter of Sharpville and Sueto, but it alters not one iota the fact that the Israeli regime are carrying out yet another massacre of Palestinians - a human rights crime   
There is no justification for that, even if the Palestinians are fighting back, as they are fully entitled to do
The nonsensical excuse of "defence" has been used throughout history by despots and mass-murdered - threats to wipe out Israel by a poorly-armed state with no standing army is comparable with the victim of bullying shaking their fist from a distance
You are making this thread a propaganda exercise for the mass murder of unarmed people - please do not do so.
If you have a rational argument for what is happening, put it up, otherwise, butt out,
You are becoming a 'Joseph Goebbells' for the same type of actions that sent six million Jews to their deaths - that is no way to represent The Jewish People
I asked for a discussion on what is happening in at this massacre - anybody can scoop up anonymous propaganda clips
This is an eye-wtiness account from a survivor of a far larger massacre facilitated by Israel from Robert Fisk's 'The Great War for Civilisation' (p. 1022) - if you want to just swap pieces denigrating one side or the other, there are thirty pages on Sabra Shatila alone an 1,364 pages on the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict
You want to swap comparisons of animalistic behavior - how long have you got?

From time to time, I noted, a few were taken away. They were put into Israeli army trucks or jeeps or Phalangist vehicles - for further ‘interro¬gation’.
Nor did I doubt this. A few hundred metres away, up to 600 massacre victims of the Sabra and Chatila Palestinian refugee camps rotted in the sun, the stench of decomposition drifting over the prisoners and their captors alike. It was suffocatingly hot. Loren Jenkins of The Washington Post, Paul Eedle of Reuters and I had only got into the cells because the Israelis assumed - given our Western appearance - that we must have been members of Shin Beth. Many of the prisoners had their heads bowed. Arab prisoners usually adopted this pose of humiliation. But Israel’s Phal¬angist militiamen had been withdrawn from the camps, their slaughter over, and at least the Israeli army was now in charge. So what did these men have to fear?
Looking back - and listening to Sana Sersawi today - I shudder now at our innocence. My notes of the time ... contain some ominous clues. We found a Lebanese employee of Reuters, Abdullah Mattar, among the prisoners and obtained his release, Paul leading him away with his arm around the man’s shoulders. ‘They take us away, one by one, for interroga¬tion,’ one of the prisoners muttered to me. ‘They are Haddad militiamen. Usually they bring the people back after interrogation, but not always. Sometimes the people do not return.’ Then an Israeli officer ordered me to leave. Why couldn’t the prisoners talk to me? I asked. ‘They can talk if they want,’ he replied. ‘But they have nothing to say.’
All the Israelis knew what had happened inside the camps. The smell of the corpses was now overpowering. Outside, a Phalangist jeep with the words ‘Military Police’ painted on it - if so exotic an institution could be associated with this gang of murderers - drove by. A few television crews had turned up. One filmed the Lebanese Christian militiamen outside the Cité Sportive. He also filmed a woman pleading to an Israeli army colonel called ‘Yahya’ for the release of her husband. The colonel has now been positively identified by The Independent. Today, he is a general in the Israeli army.
Along the main road opposite the stadium there was a line of Israeli Merkava tanks, their crews sitting on the turrets, smoking, watching the men being led from the stadium in ones or twos, some being set free, others being led away by Shin Beth men or by Lebanese men in drab khaki overalls. All these soldiers knew what had happened inside the camps.

How about behaving like a human being and defending the Jewish people properly, if that's what you are doing
Personally, I believe you are using the Jewish People top defend fascism and mass murder
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:42 AM

..maybe you would like to discuss the history and meaning of the ancient swastika symbol for muslims...???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:39 AM

Bob - yes, we already gather you are not a fan of Palestinian rioters...
no need to get so hysterical posting every single scrap of daily 'news' footage
to reinforce how much you disapprove of them..

We get it... we really do...

So where would you like to go with this obsession...????

Got any practical solutions, diplomatic or otherwise, you'd like to discuss...????

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:06 AM

ONCE AGAIN, Palestinians rioting in Gaza paint swastikas on "fire kites" they use to send over the border and start fires on Israeli land. Nature, however, knows no race or nationality and harming the land hurts Israelis and Palestinians alike.

These riots are not about justice or human rights, they are about a genocidal desire to murder Jews. The swastikas expose Hamas's true intentions.

PHOTO

PHOTO

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:16 PM

Remarkable firsthand footage from Gaza put together by @Pierre Rehov exposing the violence of the Gaza border riots.

https://vimeo.com/267378152?ref=em-share

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 09:02 PM

I am not questioning the existance of a sovereign state - despite accusation, I never have
I am questioning the actions of that state - ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity, yet that is the avowed aim of over half the Israeli population - do you condone that?
Israel is committing acts of mass murder at this moment - are you surprised when, after those committing murder claim they are doing it on behalf of the Jewish People, the victims of these acts of terror pick up on the message and blame the Jews as well?
Antisemitism is on the rise again and the main reason is that the Israelis are using the Jewish People as human shields
When David Ben Gurion made his pragmatic statement about stealing Arab land he told it exactly as it was
Here is the full Ben Gurion quote:
- "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
He was human enough do demand that the Arabs should not be evicted, yet that is exactly what is happening
It is little wonder that, despite the period of access to State documents by Israeli law has long been reached, many of Ben Gurion's papers have been withdrawn from public access
The Arabs never trusted that they would be allowed to remain, with good reason - forcible evictions began as the British were leaving Palestine and they have continued since
Of course the Jewish People have a right to their homeland - no other people have ever deserved a permanent home as they have, but not at the expense of the Arab's right to remain in territory they have occupied for millennia
You have responded to nothing I have said - I didn't expect you to
Bed calls
G'night
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: robomatic
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:33 PM

Jim:
I do not understand your last two posts. You seem to be confusing the issues that occur in Democratic societies with blanket condemnation of the existence of a sovereign state. May I remind you that the UK and the Republic of Ireland are full of similar stories about abuse of power and racial/ religious strife. That is the normal story of humans under self-rule.
My previous post was about a damaging frame of reference based on pernicious lies about a people. I made a valid connection between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. Nothing you have posted since has any relevance to my point.
I DO appreciate your links, which look interesting from an informative point of view.
If you think my support of Israel's right to exist, and struggle to achieve that right, is a blanket endorsement of everyone that gets elected there and everything that is done in her name, you are making an assumption without evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:47 PM

THESE FELLERS SEEM TO BE ON THE BALL
Antisemitic or just "Self-HATING JEWS?" I wonder
As with my "betting shop" request - the same goes for this one
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:31 PM

"Abbas' anti-Semitism is no secret robo,"
Neither is yours Bobad
Only an antisemite blames the Jewish People for the actions of a terrorist state#
Robo
Does none of you wasnt to comment on the fact that it is antisemitic to associate the actions of Israel with the Jewish People ot, like other attitudes you have displayed over insulting the Jewish People, you don't wish to comment on the grounds it might incriminate you?
Item den in the European definition of antisemitism
HOLDING JEWS COLLECTIVELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTIONS OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
Can any of you tell me why ISRAEL IS NOT AN ANTISEMITIC STATE ?
It is little wonder that others take up Israel's lead in blaming the Jews if Israel is doing so
I'd be grateful that if you are going to, you could answer before the betting shop opens tomorrow - I'd love to put a bet on your not doing so
I'd also be grateful if one of you would explaing this to Robo - he seems to have difficulty understanding things
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:37 PM

Abbas' anti-Semitism is no secret robo, after all he wrote his thesis on holocaust denial, remember he is the one who pays his people to kill Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:28 PM

Dozens of Palestinians broke into the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom border crossing between Israel and the Hamas-run Strip on Friday evening, setting fire to the gas pipeline that supplies fuel to the Strip, the army said.

The IDF shared video of the Kerem Shalom incident, during which Palestinians broke into the Palestinian side of the crossing and damaged pipelines carrying gas and oil into Gaza, which already suffers from a large energy shortage.

“This is a cynical act that harms the welfare of Gaza residents and the humanitarian efforts carried out by Israel and many other countries,” the army said.

Times of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: robomatic
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:35 PM

In the meantime over in Ramallah, Mahmoud Abbas, the 'President' of the Palestinian regime, has covered himself in opprobrium because of a 'long, rambling' speech he gave:

The Palestinian leader’s long, rambling speech was laced with deeply anti-Semitic tropes, including that the Jews of Europe brought persecution and the Holocaust upon themselves because of usury, banking and their “social function.”
Israel, he said, grew out of a European colonial project that had nothing to do with Jewish history or aspirations.
And citing a widely discredited book from the 1970s by Arthur Koestler called “The Thirteenth Tribe,” he posited that Ashkenazi Jews were descended not from the biblical Israelites but from the Khazars, a Turkic people who converted to Judaism in the eighth century.

This simply sheds light on the thinking behind much of Palestinian, and by extention, Muslim, prejudice against Jews. It colours and confuses the land and 'occupation' issues because it reinforces the argument that the Jews are not children themselves of the Middle East, but total interlopers. This underpins much of the anti-Israel sentiment in the Arab/ Muslim Mideast, and most definitely links anti-Semitism to anti-Zionism.

Mahmoud Abbas after a week of criticism from Europeans and Americans, in the Christian part of the world, just came out with a lame statement of the nature of "if I have offended". But it casts light on the extremism held in the background of these supposedly 'freedom seeking' movements.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:02 PM

"The rioters are damaging the pipes that carry fuel and gas from Israel into the Gaza Strip and are designated for the benefit of the Gaza Strip."
As claimed by the same site that reported that 6 of first dead demonstrators were Hamas - within 4 hours of the killings
"Stand by Us is an extremist Zionist site dedicated to providing propaganda for the Israeli regime
The report later appeared in the Jerusalem Post
The wording of some of this report is almost word-for word identical to a report made by an Israeli spokesman which appeared in The Guardian in 2009 -they must have filed the script
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 May 18 - 02:50 PM

Bob - they sound like a stirred up undisciplined mob of fukwits..

Sad evidence of hateful old zealots indoctrinating new young impressionable not so well educated generations of hot headed kids...

... and on the other side of the divide, at least the same process is better organized and militarised....

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 18 - 02:45 PM

Today’s Gaza riots: Palestinians are setting fire to humanitarian aid crossing.

The rioters are damaging the pipes that carry fuel and gas from Israel into the Gaza Strip and are designated for the benefit of the Gaza Strip.

This is a cynical act of terror that harms the well being of the Gaza residents and the humanitarian efforts made by Israel and many other countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:26 PM

welcome to humanism... !!!
that's progress....

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:22 PM

No, humanity is on a losing streak.
(I do not count that as a serious contribution, but at least it was on topic.)