BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:30 PM

Far better people die everyday,
and won't ever get honoured with grand memorial plaques and statues...

I have two simple categories of folks I don't like..

a] those seriously evil bastards who need to be killed..

b] those folks I'd never wish death upon, but am indifferent if we do lose them...


Boris does not fit neatly into either category...

I'll include him in

c] guilty pleasures..
right-wing comedians I'm not supposed to find amusing, but sometimes do,
and might miss a bit when they do eventually shuffle off...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Apr 20 - 09:06 PM

Dave The Gnome:
I won't replay the whole of your post, as it was just a copy of what someone else said on Facebook. So not necessarily reliable. Do you know the meaning of the word 'Hearsay'?
However, just to cover one paragraph:
My brother, sadly, wasn't lucky.
Jas, 54, died of Covid-19 in Nottingham's Queens Medical Centre a week last Saturday night. Unlike the Prime Minister there was no ventilator for Jas.

Unless the news has moved on, it was confirmed that Boris hadn't had a ventilator either. But whoever wrote it on Facebook shouldn't let the facts interrupt a good rant.

Am I belittling the death of this unknown person's brother? NO!.
I am pointing out that unattributed rants add nothing to the conversation. They may still get repeated ad nauseum without anyone confirming whether or not they include any truth.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Apr 20 - 09:56 PM

There was a German govt in the early to mid 1940s
which relied on loyal pedantic jobsworth book-keepers...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:52 AM

"So not necessarily reliable."
By that reckoning, nor is anything here of course - just an opinion of a bunch of proles
You have a habit of dodging awkward points in this manner Nigel
Good job the great and the good have the media to get over the information they need us to have eh ?
RThey don't even have to listen to those on the virus-front when they constantly whine about not having enough protective equipment - as for those constantly banging on about losing relatives....
Most of what Dave put up is not only valid, it's self evident
Britain has been far behind Ireland from the beginning, our - China has reached a "no deaths today" situation
Somebody is doing things right and others aren't - bemoanit the fate of our suffering Prime Minister while at the same time covering up his cock-ups isn't exactly going to perfom Britain's performance
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:53 AM

"improve Britain's performance" (memo to self - don't post till ou wake up)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:56 AM

Meawhile    we   have left the EU and   the countdown continues until   the end of December, unless of course   we   all   get   fed up with the   disfunctional EU   and simply leave. The behaviour of the    EU over   covid-19 indicates   the union is a basket case. If    it    cannot   deal with a   virus,   what   hope for the   coming   depression? Is southern europe   to be abandonned again?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:20 AM

I do find it a bit odd that some Brexit supporters are saying the EU is failing because it is not federal enough. In the past many of them were saying that the problem with the EU is that it had ambitions to become federal, a super-state, a United States of Europe. That recognises that at the moment it is not there yet. However, they are saying that the EU is failing because it cannot override the wishes of the individual countries that it is composed of. That is, its failure is that it is not the thing they did not want it to be.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:33 AM

The EU has the clearly stated ambbition of achieving federalisation. One of the many reasons for leaving and regaining sovereignty. Many here denied that, Glad   to see reality has finally penetrated for some. If   the desire is to centralise then come the crisis leadership is expected. Abject failure is all I see, even to the extent of hijacking each others safety gear. We are lucky we have left, the subsequent bills will be horrendous

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:59 AM

Europe is made up of separate and totally independent states - talking about "Europe having an ambition" is bizarre to say the least - a creature with a single aim
Utter nonsense
There has been no move to federate - it may well be the wish of some, but until the members discuss and propose the idea, that's all it will ever be
This is one of the big lies that brought about this insane leap in the dark
On the other hand, if Britain wishes to trade with countries like America (in particular) they will only be allowed to do so if they are able to stay in Trump the Dump's good books - anybody wish to dispute that !!!
That all free nations should ne so "independent'
"Birthright and mess of pottage" springs to mind
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 04:10 AM

So, Nigel, you're seriously suggesting that I shouldn't bet my life that a ventilator was/is instantly available for Boris should the need arise...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 06:31 AM

Nigel. Which part of "A very moving personal view" did you have problems with? It was my opening statement. Nowhere do I say it is anything other than that. It does add to the discussion as it reflects the depth of feeling people have.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 06:37 AM

MPs given an extra £10,000 to work from home

I am gobsmacked but no longer surprised at the contempt that this lot treat others with.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 06:56 AM

a friend of ours died a couple of weeks ago. apparently they were not able to put him on a ventilator as if they had he would not have been able to come off it. it's not the best thing for everyone apparently and he died very quickly, despite being a very fit and lively man (though he was 81)

seems to me there are 2 narratives going on at the moment - while the overwhelming majority of folk are saying that we must use this shock to make fundamental changes to the way we do things (particularly with respect to public services) However, there is still a refusal to accept this idea with our government who are cracking on with HS2, bonus and shareholders payouts, Brexit - and pay rises for MPs - as if they are assuming they can just carry on after a few weeks while maintaining the systems and privileges they and their friends currently enjoy.

it won't be long before the battle resumes between tories and the forelock-tuggers and more progressive, equality-based people will be resumed. this time it will be critical as the future direction of our countries will be at stake. way more important than the old tory/labour squabbling.

we live in interesting times eh?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 09:57 AM

Europe is made up of separate and totally independent states - talking about "Europe having an ambition" is bizarre to say the least - a creature with a single aim
Utter nonsense

EU law    applies to all   member   states
EU   legislation applies to all member states
A common currencty applies to   all member states, apart    from those   sensible enough   to opt out.
The EU has:
Exercutive
Legislative
Judicial
Finnancial
control over its member states.

To try to say the states are independant and seperate is risible.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 10:45 AM

‘Exercutive’?
Executive.

‘Finnancial’?
Financial.

‘Independant’?
Independent.

‘Seperate’?
Separate.

There appears to be something of a dearth of that ‘important attention to detail’ you were proudly crowing about being so careful over recently.

Apologies to everyone else for lowering my standards and lapsing into Nigelism. But no apologies to Iains, of course. ;-) ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 11:45 AM

i don't think anyone is really that bothered about brexit just now - it just seems weird that we spent such a long time bitching about it. i always felt the important thing was to get rid of the tories as they were increasingly not bothered about looking after the interests of ordinary citizens - same is true today but of course we are now facing far more important questions

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 12:38 PM

BWM I notice you do not dispute the facts though!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:04 PM

I’ve learned the art of issue-avoidance from you, Nigs, and sundry other Rightys.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:09 PM

ring a ring a tories

a pocket full of excuses

an issue, an issue, they all look down...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:29 PM

Just seen that Debenhams has collapsed in Ireland - the shape of things to come
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:49 PM

yes a relative mine will now be out of a job

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:29 PM

BORIS JOHNSON has been moved out of intensive care as the Prime Minister continues to battle coronavirus.

Very good news.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:33 PM

I'm am pleased that a victim of this Virus is seemingly recovering from it. It is good news.

I can only hope that having received the care from the dedicated medical staff he will understand just how important the NHS is to the rest of us and ensure it has the necessary funding in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 07:19 PM

Good news indeed. I'm almost back to the point at which I can go back to hating the useless bastard to pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 03:24 AM

EU strikes €500bn relief deal

Not really UK politics, of course, except in so far as it relates to the question of whether the UK should be asking for an extension to the transition in a few months time. We are excluded from the deal itself by virtue of having left in January.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:12 AM

The tardy bickering response of the EU to the covid-19 calamity will likely destroy 'the great work'.
One euro to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them, In the Land of eunnacy where the Shadows lie

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:39 AM

I watched a magnificent Scotsman - a youngish man who has beaten a drug and alcohol addiction, crown his achievements by beating a bunch of prating and pontificating politicians to a verbal pulp last night on Question Time - what a great PM he would make was the world in anyway sensible
He reduced the virus situation human levels by linking its reatment to the vast and growing gap between the haves and have nots, both in terms of catching and coping with the illness - a sharp reminder of what you need to have to survive
Beats all the vainly vacuous displays of a knowledge of fantasy tales into a cocked hat too
Wish there were more of him allowed to speak publicly in this world of elitism and privilege (wish I'd caught his name and details too)

A long discussion of how Ireland will benefit from the pooling of resources that is taking place in the E.U. that Britain left to stand on their own two feet recently, on the radio this morning
No doubt The Daily Express will be screaming about how inhuman Europe is not to include the now freed G.B. in their plans
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:48 AM

Sadly, many neat well-groomed careful people will suffer coronavirus COVID?19, but Boris Johnson is not one of them &, as with Donald Trump, should not be a world leader. E.g., mask use & production should have been encouraged from the start. http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.com

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 06:00 AM

It is quite clear from the rubbush he spoke that the scottish laddie has hardly ever made it beyond his own front door. I suspect he obtains his viewpoint entirely from the Guardian.
He says we are the most unuequal society- his ignorance is astounding. I suggest he visits a few south African townships with the gated communities over the road. I could point out many many other examples but that would be a waste of my time.
I seem to remember reading that Question time ranks 107th in popularity.
Could it be the BBC has an agenda? Why else keep the program on prime time?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 06:04 AM

EU strikes €500bn relief deal

Not really UK politics, of course, except in so far as it relates to the question of whether the UK should be asking for an extension to the transition in a few months time. We are excluded from the deal itself by virtue of having left in January.

By the same logic, we would also be excluded from paying for that relief deal. Swings/Roundabouts

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 06:10 AM

From the Guardian article linked earlier about a bail-out:
A messy compromise to unlock €500bn (£438bn) of EU support for countries hit hardest by the coronavirus pandemic has been struck after Italy’s prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, warned that the existence of the bloc was at stake.

It looks like only a threat to the continuation of the EU is sufficient to get them to do the decent thing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 06:12 AM

By the same logic, we would also be excluded from paying for that relief deal. Swings/Roundabout

Indeed we are. Mutual aid schemes are like that. However, its main significance is that, while there has been the same sort of argument there always is in sorting out EU budgets and other financial matters, the predictions of the end of the EU from some quarters of the media are again premature. Which will affect their stance as we leave.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 07:27 AM

"is sufficient to get them to do the decent thing."
That is small minded pettiness and you really should know it
The EU is a gathering of Capitalist States with Capitalist aims - no-one claims it to be altruistic aby more than the British system is
Britain has consistently abandoned people to fates created by its own greed and self-interest
Now a group of nations come together to protect all in the group you snide at it - you should be ashamed of yourself
I can't see any British leader offering to help anyone else at present - Westminster's attitude to The North of England and Northerner Ireland has been uneven and extremely questionable from day one
Shame on you Nigel - you are as bad as..... well, I'm sure you know who I mean - fine display of it above
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 08:13 AM

One of the other facts that emerged in last night's QT is that hard on the heels of the US, Britain is the second most unequal country of the planet and it is quite possible that they will both suffer the highest death level before the crisis is over
HERE
More "nor getting out more by the predictors, no doubt !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 08:15 AM

" rubbush "
I presume this is an old Scottish custom !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 08:19 AM

Meanwhile: The assistant chief of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, Steve Hedley said that he would 'throw a party' if Boris Johnson died.(and refuses to back down)

He joins a few other lowlife labour supporters. Just as well labour is in the wastelands with attitudes like that. Another example is labour councillor Julie Heselwood who said Boris Johnson's ICU stay was 'a publicity stunt for sympathy to change the narrative'

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 09:14 AM

"He joins a few other lowlife labour supporters."
Not quite as bad as those who wanted to Jail Corbyn for suggesting that vacant property should be requisitioned to house survivors of the Gresham fire
Expressing a wish and actually proposing action to prevent essential relief I think
If Dr Ryan's statement put up by Dave (above) is correct, Johnson's Government has already caused unnecessary deaths and they are likely to cause more yet and he is unlikely to be brought to justice for their neglect
A perfectly valid reason for someone to let off harmless steam, I think
AN INTERESTING INSIGHT HERE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 09:37 AM

The EU is a gathering of Capitalist States with Capitalist aims - no-one claims it to be altruistic aby more than the British system is
Britain has consistently abandoned people to fates created by its own greed and self-interest
Strange, that's what I thought many people were claiming when we were trying to leave the group.

Now a group of nations come together to protect all in the group you snide at it - you should be ashamed of yourself
I didn't make the snide comment, it was implicit in the comment I quoted from the Guardian.

I can't see any British leader offering to help anyone else at present - Westminster's attitude to The North of England and Northerner Ireland has been uneven and extremely questionable from day one
"Nightingale Hospitals" for London, but also for Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester, Cardiff, Belfast & Glasgow. No, no inequality there.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 09:53 AM

Keir Starmer’s reshuffle is impressive - the Marxist nutters are out; moderate left are in. When this crisis is eventually over, and politics is resumed, the Tories are going to find that the 5 years when there was no opposition and no alternative has come to an abrupt end

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 09:53 AM

Not quite as bad as those who wanted to Jail Corbyn for suggesting that vacant property should be requisitioned to house survivors of the Gresham fire
Just another' once upon a time' fairy tale.
unless Jim can offer evidence to the contrary of course! But like any other time he is challenged he will not be able to. Neither will he retract the lie.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 10:19 AM

Some of us have to say it - I swear I saw nurses without masks, within 2 metres of each other, away from their patients, applauding at 8 pm yesterday...allowing for some boost in morale, is this really a good ritual?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 10:21 AM

"unless Jim can offer evidence to the contrary of course! "
I have done as everybody knows including you Iains
One of your truely high moments
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 11:24 AM

Jim, you should know better. It really isn't worth it.

WAV. Your comment about nurses has nothing to do with UK politics so I will not discuss it here but maybe those nurses you are trying to demonize have already had the virus.

Besides those couple of little hiccups and some earlier shenanigans I must say that this thread has been reasonably civil. I suspect it has been kept on track by the fact that a moderator is actively watching it. Thanks Barb'ry :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 12:12 PM

"It really isn't worth it."
I'm feeling charitable Dave - we're in lock-down and smoene has to talk to him :-)
Finished trying - I've done what needed doing
JIm

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:18 PM

Sadly, things were bound to be relatively bad in England re coronavirus covid19 due to our diverse & dense population from mass economic/CAPITALIST immigration; my #poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, on "Congestion"

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:23 PM

Oh, what a surprise. WAV blames immigration and links one of his old poems.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:27 PM

I have done as everybody knows including you Iains
One of your truely high moments
Jim

meaningless words. No proof offered. No surprise there!
As usual, when challenged to support your wild allegations, you cannot.
Disgraceful behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:29 PM

evening, turnip

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:30 PM

A No 10 spokesman:

“The Prime Minister has been able to do short walks, between periods of rest, as part of the care he is receiving to aid his recovery. He has spoken to his doctors and thanks the whole clinical team for the incredible care he has received. His thoughts are with those affected by this terrible disease.”

I wondwer how much Starmer can do with the hardline corbintes plotting and conniving in the background?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:35 PM

Johnson's early inactivity and bluster has cost thousands of lives. Neither Corbyn not Starker had anything to do with that. What they have, have not or might have done is irrelevant.