BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 22 - 04:13 PM

You valiantly clutch at straws, Nigel. Very brave of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 May 22 - 04:39 PM

On the 8th December, when speaking about the events, Johnson did carefully say he had been assured there was no rule breaking.

He did not put those caveats in place on 1st December, in answer to Starmer's first question.


What I can tell the right hon. and learned Gentleman is that all guidance was followed completely in No. 10. May I recommend that he does the same with his own Christmas party, which is advertised for 15 December and to which, unaccountably, he has failed to invite the deputy Leader of the Opposition?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 May 22 - 04:41 PM

”You valiantly clutch at straws, Nigel. Very brave of you.”

The point at which bravery becomes wilful gullibility was passed a very long time ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 22 - 06:15 PM

I was trying to be nice to him, John. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 May 22 - 01:32 AM

I got that, Steve. Perhaps it wasn’t clear, but I was referring to the Brexit-bamboozled Johnson-apologists in general, not any specific individual. However, if the cap fits… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 22 - 08:03 AM

Others are saying "He lied to parliament about it". But they don't quote him.

How about “It is an astonishing fact that we have 420,000 more people in work than before the pandemic began.”
Boris Johnson, House of Commons 12 JANUARY 2022

When, and I quote from the previously referenced Boris Johnson Lies, the fact is there are more payrolled employees than before the pandemic, the total number of people in paid work - including the self-employed - is below the levels seen just prior to the pandemic. This figure has fallen from 5 million just before the pandemic to 4.3 million as of the third quarter of 2021.

Data from the Office for National Statistics, which includes all people in paid work in the UK, shows that this number is still about half a million below the level just prior to the pandemic. It has gone from about 33 million between December 2019 and February 2020 to 32.5 million in the latest figures from July to September 2021. The proportion of working-age people in employment is also lower than it was in early 2020, falling from 76.6% to 75.4% in this period.

So, there is proof that he lied to parliament. There are plenty more where that came from if you want me to continue but it is just as easy to look it up yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 May 22 - 09:00 AM

Jesus Fucking Christ, have you nothing else to do??????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 22 - 04:24 AM

yes, I have mountains of other things to do, but that doesn't detract from calling out those who set rules and boundaries which included restrictions on visiting people dying in hospital and care homes, limiting numbers at funerals which meant making choices as to which family members and life long friends could or couldn't visit, not allowing families to spend time with older relatives who live alone at Christmas and other celebrations when they flout their own rules. Saying that they did not know what the rules the made are and/or implying that the rules shows only apply to those they see as beneath them is totally COMPTEMPTIBLE. If the rules are too difficult for the Prime Minister to understand, what gives him the right to allow the police to fine anyone else if the rule are that incomprehensible. The law says we have an individual duty of care to understand what the law says and follow it. Ignorance is no defence.

What is worst is that when the government are held to scrutiny by parliament they lie, and when that lie is shown to no longer hold water, lie again, and again, not just about illegal parties in Downing Street, but about issue after issue. Not only that, but using parliamentary privilege to lie about opposition members, including lies that are easily fact checked.

What is most reprehensible are the number of sycophants who, when the government is called out come up with whataboutery, straw man arguments, the tired phrase that there are more important things to worry about than a government which voters are supposed to implicitly trust breaking their own rules/laws, then lying about it when they are found out, and when they have no arguments or defence left, abuse other people for calling out corruption and wrong doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 May 22 - 06:02 AM

Exactly, SPB-Cooperator, very well put.

Those who seek to "defend" the corrupt practices of those who create the rules are just as guilty.

What, perhaps, makes it worse is that they know those people in power break the rules and seem to consider that this is acceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 22 - 07:52 AM

"Sue Gray Partygate meeting with Boris Johnson instigated by Downing Street official, No 10 admits"

I wait with anticipation the front page of the Daily Mail: "We got it wrong!"

I may have to wait for some time.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 May 22 - 08:44 AM

It'll be on page 94, in Sanskrit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 22 - 09:57 AM

That was after Simon Clarke lied to the media saying that it was instigated by Sue Bray - not sure on whose orders?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 22 - 01:53 PM

Given the photos released on 23/5/22 of an event on 13 November 2020, I wonder who still thinks Johnson's statement on 1 December 2020 is entirely accurate?

What I can tell the right hon. and learned Gentleman is that all guidance was followed completely in No. 10.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 22 - 08:49 PM

What gets me is that he and his henchpersons were partying like mad during a lockdown and allowed it all to be photographed! I mean, what kind of judgement does that show? I'm just thinking back to those pub lock-ins I used to enjoy in my misspent youth in the Nell Gwynne in Chelsea, and trying to imagine how we would have reacted if some dickhead with a camera had started going round taking pictures. At best he'd go home with an empty camera, and at worst he might have found it part-flushed down the gents' lavvy...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 22 - 01:31 AM

That does seem strange, Steve, but I put it down to the fact that Johnson and co are surrounded by cameras so often that they did not register. A bit like that famous experiment with the gorilla appearing while people are concentrating on throwing basketballs to each other - it literally does not get noticed.

For other attendees who are backroom civil servants who keep out of the limelight I have no explanation why they allowed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 22 - 08:31 AM

Panorama tonight sounds like a good watch. 30 in a room...shoulder-to-shoulder... people sitting on people's laps... Johnson in attendance for 20 or 25 minutes... red wine, white wine, fizz, gin... he poured the drinks... That little word "no" to the House could well come back to bite him on his voluminous arse...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 22 - 09:04 AM

I agree it should be.

However, it seems to be hosted by Laura Kuenssberg. I somehow doubt any of this is new to her. The Friday events were referred to a press meetings, after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 May 22 - 09:49 AM

> surrounded by cameras

We all are: surveillance cameras have outnumbered people in the UK for a decade or two now; and that's before we count the ones in phones, which are nice and inconspicuous. But those pictures don't look as if they've been snatched through a window, more like the work of someone's personal ego-trip snapper. Guess who's got three :-) ?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 22 - 04:27 PM

Well the Panorama programme was very disappointing. Too bad that it was made before the "sensation" of the ITN photos. It was no more than just the narrative of the last few months that we know already. Also, it was rather too much about Laura, Laura, Laura. And why they felt it necessary to wheel out Irritable Dowel Syndrome, a has-been loser if ever there was one, is beyond me. I'll coin a phrase here and just say that I'm waiting for Sue Gray...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 May 22 - 02:21 AM

I agree the Panorama programme was disappointing. In fact, they managed to make the topic rather dull, which some people would be very happy with.

Meanwhile, it sounds like today's plan is to use a windfall tax as a diversion to stop the media talking too much about Gray's report. Who wants to talk about misdeeds when you are getting all this largesse? (Bribed with your own money, of course, but still it will be "the Government acts on the cost of living crisis.")

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 May 22 - 03:08 AM

Newspaper front pages for 25/5/2022

Rather more of them are summaries of the Panorama accounts than I expected, but at least half are focusing on this 'rescue plan' for the cost of living instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 May 22 - 05:33 AM

Bonzo, the time taken finding Boris Johnson's lies is nothiong at all. I have linked a website that gives good examples of many, although not all, lots of times.

The amount of time and effort spent on the language gymnastics in an attempt to excuse the sorry excuse for a prime minister is far greater.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 May 22 - 07:50 AM

johnsons statement is pathetic. The Downing St staff working hard???????? I suppose care workers, nurses, doctors, and other key workers had nice cushy jobs, then..... How can someone not know what is going on in his own home.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 May 22 - 07:55 AM

“If” (Downing Street Party Remix)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 May 22 - 08:04 AM

I can't even begin to express how angry I feel now without just descending into a tirade of profanities.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 25 May 22 - 08:32 AM

I sympathise, SPB. Herself's listening to the parliamentary coverage (called "doing her knitting by the used-heads basket" here), and praying for a guillotine motion. Thoughts occur:

* The behaviour reported reminds me of the Chetwynd Society in King's College Cambridge [no, I was not a choral scholar]: their alcoholic exploits were legendary, and got them banned from every room in college in turn. The last I heard, they were on their second circuit.

* Were this a school, it would have long since been put in Special Measures, and a competent headmaster would have been parachuted in. It annoys me how, the lower the level of society you are in, the scricter the application of rules.

* I foresee a massive cull in Number Ten, but no change of alleged leader, along the lines of the Night of the Long Knives in Harold Macmillan's days. Sadly, something like the Profumo affair (which finally saw Supermac off) wouldn't nowadays register higher than a hiccup on the political seismometers.

* Everybody who got fined for parties during lockdown should send the bill to Number Ten, with a handling charge to cover loss of business, reputation etc.

TL;DR (de Pfeffel): "I see improvement." He does like three-word slogans.

TL;DR (David Davies, and others): "In God's name, go."

.... End of rant. I have been Told there's something more important to be doing (the drying-up).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 May 22 - 02:53 PM

"johnsons statement is pathetic. The Downing St staff working hard???????? I suppose care workers, nurses, doctors, and other key workers had nice cushy jobs, then..... How can someone not know what is going on in his own home."

I know a few former no 10 staff - they work incredibly long hours when required, so stop spouting such leftie nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 May 22 - 03:49 PM

No 10 staffers work so much harder than nurses and care workers that they should be allowed to mix while those caring for the sick and dying are not allowed to?

Really bonzo?

I refer you to my post of 25 May 22 - 05:33 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 26 May 22 - 12:25 AM

I know a few former no 10 staff - they work incredibly long hours when required

As do nurses, doctors and many other other professions. Even in IT I occasionally worked weeks in excess of 100 hours.   

That does not justify clocking off every Friday at 4pm to drink, sometimes until the early hours of the morning. Which nurses etc did not.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 May 22 - 01:49 AM

Anyone else amused by the thought of all of the ministers and other Johnson supporters saying "we must move on from partygate as there are far more important issues to concern ourselves with" now having to defend that one of those more important things seems to be allowing weights in pounds and ounces?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 22 - 02:59 AM

As Angela Eagle quite rightly says, it’s the ‘weaponisation of nostalgia’, an attempt to make it more likely that feeble-minded old codgers will vote Tory because ‘they gave us our pounds and ounces back’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 May 22 - 04:05 AM

Are shop assistants really going to subject themselves to abuse for allowing goods to be priced in imperial instead of metric?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 May 22 - 04:49 AM

Everyone who has grown up with, have been taught and think in metric measures are being disregarded I suppose. It shows the younger generations how much contempt this shower has for everyone but themselves and I hope that those youngsters don't think that older generations in general support this ridiculous ploy. What's next? Go back to pounds, shillings and pence?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stanron
Date: 29 May 22 - 05:39 AM

I would have thought that no one is suggesting removing metric measures, weight or monetary, from use. Just that the EU imposed illegality of Imperial measures will no longer be law. By now we have all got used to grams and kilos. Most shops will no longer have Imperial scales anyway. Selling in pounds and ounces will probably be most useful for tourists.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 22 - 07:39 AM

It won't work. I went into the butchers last week and asked for a pound of sausages. He said with a smirky grin that I was old-fashioned, that it's all kilos these days. OK, I said, I'll have a pound of kilos then...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 May 22 - 09:27 AM

There was never any "EU imposed illegality of Imperial measures", Stanron. Quote from The Guardian, September 2007

The threat to Britain's imperial measures is to be lifted today after a climbdown by the European commission.

The plans to switch over to metric and abandon imperial measures became a cause celebre for Eurosceptics, unhappy about Brussels's intrusion into British life.

Since 1995, goods sold in Europe have had to display metric weights and measurements, but to appease the public outcry in the UK, imperial indications have also been allowed.

That concession to British tradition was due to expire in 2009, when imperial measures were to be finally banished from packaging and market stalls.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 22 - 09:46 AM

"...when imperial measures were to be finally banished from packaging and market stalls."

You mean I'll no longer be able to go down the market and buy five pounds of potato's, a pound of tomato's and a dozen egg's???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jeri
Date: 29 May 22 - 09:53 AM

Steve, I wouldn't get involved in this thread, except to say I fear the apostrophe police are coming for you. Don't open the door.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 May 22 - 10:30 AM

Sorry, I didn't finish my post!

...But now the commission has decided to abandon its attempt to force Britain to adopt the metric system.

The reprieve follows months of commission consultations with British industry, trade and consumer groups - an exercise which convinced European officials that emotions were still running high over the issue and a move to metric-only in the UK would simply provide ammunition to Eurosceptics.

Gunter Verheugen, the EU's industry commissioner, will announce that miles per hour, pints of milk, and the Troy ounce for weighing gold bullion are all here to stay.

A spokesman for the commission said that Brussels was responding to "serious confusion" among British consumers and traders and wanted to "put a full stop on this issue".

"This means that measurements such as pints and miles are in no way under threat from Brussels and never will be," she said.

So the "imposed illegailty" was as much a myth as the EU insisting on straight bananas and banning double decker busses. There were hundreds of other such myths spread by the media and, sadly, many believed them :-( The Euromyths have all been archieved here and, as it says, it makes for some disturbing reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 May 22 - 10:32 AM

Jeri - Steve's apostrophes are common in the UK and known as "greengrocers's apostrophes". I suspect they were used on purpose :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 22 - 10:48 AM

'Steve i's right, Jeri: apo'strophe's are *required* by the Guild of Grocer's, to warn the reader that a letter S i's imminent.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 22 - 11:02 AM

”So the "imposed illegailty" was as much a myth as the EU insisting on straight bananas and banning double decker busses.”

And, IIRC, our Prime Minister, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, was the person responsible for inventing and propagating the ‘straight bananas’ lie as well as many others about the EU, back in his days as a so-called ‘journalist’….

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-lies-conservative-leader-candidate-list-times-banana-brexit-bus-a8929076.html

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 22 - 11:20 AM

Meanwhile, back at the 'subject: I remember shopkeepers being up in arms about the change to metric, not because it would confuse the customers, but because they'd have to buy new sets of scales. Force them to change them back, and they'll be up in arms again for the same reason --- the old scales have long since been melted down, or can now only be got back from the antiques trade at interesting prices.

.... Besides, nobody seems to have noticed that the yard is no longer a freestanding (erm) standard of length: the inch was redefined as 25.4 mm.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 May 22 - 12:44 PM

Besides, nobody seems to have noticed that the yard is no longer a freestanding (erm) standard of length: the inch was redefined as 25.4 mm
It was indeed. But that was by scientists rather than politicians, and pre-dates the UK joining the 'common market'.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 22 - 01:12 PM

As long as we can Continue to use the yardarm as an indication of when we can start drinking I'm not Bothered. will not be coerced into asking whether it's wine o'clock yet, or even worse, prosecco'clock... bothered.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 22 - 01:15 PM

Damn, I'll try that again:

As long as we can continue to use the yardarm as an indication of when we can start drinking I'm not bothered. I will not be coerced into asking whether it's wine o'clock yet, or even worse, prosecco'clock...

(And I haven't even started yet!)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 22 - 01:32 PM

> scientists rather than politicians

We take the time to Do It Right, which is why I'm so slow replying to e-mails. What I'm waiting for is for some (*ahhk* *phht*) politician to hear that the metre was originally defined in terms of the distance from the equator to the North Pole through Paris, then try to deny Johnnie Foreigner the use of the Greenwich Meridian for navigational purposes ("It's mine, I tell you, mine, dribble wurble").

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 22 - 01:41 PM

> prosecco'clock

If people start referring to "chardonnay-o-clock", I'll emigrate to a pub which advertises "Music and Craic" on the board outside.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 May 22 - 05:19 PM

I thought Chardonnay was a girls name for years. In Sainsbury's in Salford you would often here the call of the young mothers (shopping in pyjamas) "Come 'ere Chardonnay yer likkle bleeder..."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 22 - 05:30 PM

Don't wanna sound snobby, Dave, but are you sure you didn't mean Lidl? ;-)