BS: Bank Branch Closures

Subject: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 May 21 - 03:20 PM

Here in Dover, Barclays are the first of the big four banks to decide to close their Dover branch. They plan to close in June this year.

In neighbouring Deal, HSBC are the first to go. They plan to close in August this year.

Have any other mudcatters had bank closures in their area?

I know that banking is a bit different in the US but see that banks have been closing branches there too.

USA Bank Branch Closures - NCRC Report

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 21 - 03:40 PM

Yes, that's impacted my family directly.
Barclays closed down their branch in the small West country town where my mum lives.

The next nearest branch is in the bigger town where I am.
A bus or train ride away for families who don't drive, like mine.

Coinciding, the long-standing bus route from virtual my mum's front door to mine
was axed.

Do Barclays give a s*** how inconvenient they make it for their elderly customers.

We needed to sort out a transaction on my mum's behalf, and they insisted she attend in person at the branch.
For the usual bollocks security and data protection excuses.
Despite her advancing dementia.

I asked if we could arrange alternative telephone phone transactions.
But Barclays put every barrier in front of us to prevent that happening within a reasonable time scale.

This meant having to find a car owning friend who was kind enough to collect my mum and put towels and polythene sheets down on the back seat,
Because of my mum's explosive double incontinence and leaky pads.

I explained all this to Barclays.
Yet they still insisted we had to drag her into the branch.
Refusing in advance to let her use the in-branch toilet in an emergency.

Then in branch they turned a simple transaction into a lengthy interrogation, treating us as though we were criminal fraudsters..
Authoritarian bastards..

After all that time and duress,
Mum pissed herself on the way out;
and we had to beg the nearest cafe to let her use their facilities.
So she clean up, before getting back in our friends car..

That was approximately a year before covid closed all surviving branches to normal business...

What about the elderly customers who don't have have younger family or friends to help them out in these dire situations...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 21 - 02:50 AM

Barclays in our village closed and the branch in the nearby town are being absolute arseholes with the organisation my wife is involved in. I ditched them for Starling in December.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 21 - 03:25 AM

yes,in rural ireland it started happening 20 years ago we have to rely on post offices now so i try to pay some of my bills at PO. to help keep it open
THE BANK IN BALLYDEHOB ,THE BUILDING WAS BOUGHT BY THE VILLAGE COMMUNITY COUNCIL AND IS NOW USED AS A TOURIST OFFICE RELYING ON VOLUNTEERS SUCH AS MYSELF TO KEEP IT OPEN. the nearest banks are ten miles awa but certain days of the wekk there is a mobile van bank

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 21 - 04:58 AM

I must add that the closed Barclays near us is about to open as a bar and restaurant - a much better use for the building :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 May 21 - 05:52 AM

In Whitby Lloyds and Nat West have already gone, TSB telephoned me before Christmas to tell me my branch was closing.

Word on the grapevine is that HSBC will close shortly.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 May 21 - 05:53 AM

I know that a lot of people use internet banking these days but I don't. I still pay bills at my local branch of NatWest and make a point of going in a couple of times a month. Of course nowadays I use the ATMS to pay bills rather than go to one of the tellers. Whenever I do go in there are normally some people waiting to see a teller.

I have been using a card during the covid period to pay in shops. Ordinarily I prefer to use cash. Still use cash in the pub.

When branches close they always say that you can use the post office. Our main post office went years ago, replaced by a much smaller one within a shop. They are always busy even nowadays. Bank closures will only make them more so, at least while the older stick in the muds like myself are still alive.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 May 21 - 05:55 AM

Bloody hell Raggytash, how far away are the nearest branches?

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 May 21 - 07:10 AM

That business of a bank wanting to see my mum in person happened to me at Santander in Bury, where the branch is in a pedestrian area behind The Rock, a long way from any available car park. My mum was completely disabled and the whole thing was a severe tribulation. They would not be persuaded. We closed the bloody account.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Jos
Date: 04 May 21 - 07:40 AM

My nearest bank branch is now a bus-ride away. The Post Office will let me put money into or take money out of a current account, but they won't let me pay my credit card. I have been forced to use on-line banking until the credit card balance is cleared.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 May 21 - 07:40 AM

Steve - I did ask if they had staff who could make home visits
as an exception for elderly customers with poor mobility,
dementia confusion and incontinence..

Nope..

Not even the staff transferred from the closed down branch,
who still live in the same town as my mum...

They demand vulnerable customers and their family attend at the bank
just to be treated as criminals...

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 May 21 - 07:42 AM

Had the same experience with my mother and the bank. I did ask if it was possible for a member of staff to visit her at home but that seemed to throw them. I imagine that a number of customers would be unable to visit a branch due to illness, accident or disability but would like the chance to change something.

Of course it is a reminder to try and plan ahead when possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: DaveRo
Date: 04 May 21 - 07:59 AM

Yes, plan ahead by arranging a Lasting Power of Attorney (this is in the UK). And - just as important - register it before your parent, or whoever, becomes mentally incapable - which can be tricky IME if the he or she isn't agreeable.

Even then, IME, banks can be bloody awkward.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 May 21 - 09:12 AM

I did that with my mum after my dad died, but after the aforementioned incident. I haven't researched as to whether it would have made a difference. Good advice though. You can't do it if the old person is, say, suffering from dementia.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 May 21 - 09:17 AM

Incidentally, once we'd arranged the POA for my mum it became a lot easier to do things such as pay her care home fees and expenses. With her agreement, I kept her debit card and cheque book at my house, so there was never any danger of her becoming a victim of theft or fraud (and she was so deaf that no-one could ever ring her up!). She kept a few quid in her purse and that was it. TSB even gave me a debit card for her account with my name on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 04 May 21 - 11:54 AM

Here in the Land of Oz we have been losing bank branches for years, both suburban & rural branches. It's relatively easy in a big city where a branch might be in the next suburb, but in the regions the nearest bank can be 100km away, so if folks have to travel to the bank in a larger town, they are likely to do all their shopping there, contributing to the decline of their nearby small town/village.

Banks say branch closures no longer a sign of a town in decline as online shift accelerates, but locals still worried ... Bank closures are not a new issue — branch and ATM networks have been shrinking for years. Figures from the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority show the number of branches nationwide has shrunk from 5,816 in mid-2017, to 5,173 last June. However, the Finance Sector Union is concerned about an acceleration of closures, with around 300 announced since January 2020, with some branches temporarily closed during the pandemic not reopening ... (read on)

And not everyone across this wide brown land wants to do on-line banking, some areas don't even have decent internet or phone connections.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 May 21 - 10:08 PM

Power of attorney...???

When mum was diagnosed with dementia 8 or 9 years ago,
the clinic outreach worker automatically suggested we apply for power of attorney..

I didn't feel too comfortable with doing that because mum had been so fiercely independent up until then.
We briefly discussed it, but she refused to agree with it anyway.

At that time our perhaps naive outlook was that we are a traditional old fashioned council estate working class family:
we've never had to do it before,
why would we ever need it at all...???

We've never owned property and investments,
or had any savings that family can fall out about.
None of us have ever even written wills..
Never needed them..

.. and we were naturally resistant to wasting money being ripped off by the legal parasites administrating POA..

So for a few years I just acted informally,
gradually taking over Mum's financial and administrative affairs..

Things ticked along reasonably ok dealing with occasional essential phone calls and form filling..

Things worked out ok, we got results.

But there came a point only a few years ago,
when suddenly just about every phone call to banks and utilities, etc,
started becoming blocked through demands that I submit evidence of POA.
Petty jobsworths on the phone refusing to discuss anything with me..

This seemed to have happened over night, like there'd been a legalistic culture shift behind the scenes.
What it effectively meant was that indifferent lazy telephone operatives now had a good excuse to avoid doing any work to help us..

Something the unhelpful buggers could add to "sorry can't do it, data protection.."...!!!

Whether family's genuinely needed POA or not,
it seems the unavoidable fees for setting it up
are a nice little earner for for some folks in the bureaucracy business...

Handy for their professional class that they could benefit from a tory government for so long...!!!???

Anyway regardless of our disdain for middle-class legalistic parasites,
Mum's too far gone now to agree to POA now anyway..

So, since social services have recently moved mum into a care home,
we've just got to sort things out as best we can as we stumble along from any new problems to the next....

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 May 21 - 02:59 AM

Sorry to hear that news about your mum from.

Anyone can apply for POA themselves and then you just have to pay the government fee.

Banks and other organisations have got stricter about dealing with representatives of their customers. This has largely been driven by government insisting that they should do more to minimise fraud. I agree that too many organisations can 'hide' behind data protection legislation rather than try to help. Of course due nowadays to less and less face to face dealings with their customers, and more dealing with telephone centres, the problem has got worse. With further branch closures it is not going to improve.

I was going down the route of adding myself as a signatory to my mother's account, rather than applying for POA. That would have necessitated my mother going to the bank to sign the forms. She was unable to do that due to disability. If she had been able, no doubt the bank would have asked a lot of questions to make sure she was not being coerced to do so. I would have expected them to act that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 May 21 - 04:38 AM

It is a rip-off for sure. All I can say is that for the final two years of my mum's life, when. I was her only relative who lived anywhere near her, it made my life miles easier when it came to dealing with her finances. She was never used to handling anything other than small sums for shopping. I had to deal with the money my dad left and the sale of their house as well as monthly care home fees of about three grand, as well as keeping a eye on her savings account and making sure there was enough in her bank to pay the fees. My mum, who kept all her marbles right to the end, was happy to let me do it all for her and just keep her posted. What could have been a nightmare was a breeze with the POA. Sometimes it's ten times easier to bite the bullet...

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 May 21 - 04:40 AM

Incidentally, we also signed up for the health and welfare POA which made life much easier when dealing with the care home and her multiple medical issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: JHW
Date: 05 May 21 - 06:38 AM

I don't do net banking, but don't need a bank Branch often. Barclays at Yarm is still open but last go there was a long covid queue outside, as one queuer said 'because all the branches have closed'. Two small Barclays have gone in Darlington and the main one is only an arcade. Screens, no counters. Bank excuse is everyone prefers the internet but really it saves staffing, like Hole in the Wall money.
Now no-one wants money, just the magic waving card. So I have no change for machines!
I have got money out of Post Offices, they are to do more banking they say.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: BobL
Date: 06 May 21 - 02:36 AM

Awkward.
My own local bank branch is about to close, which I haven't needed to visit but twice in the last ten years, once to pay in a real hardcopy cheque (remember them?) and once to surrender my expired Secure Key (the gadget for generating one-time PINs) for secure disposal. Nearest surviving branches are both an hour away by bus: at least I'm still mobile, and as a gentleman of leisure, time is the one thing I have in abundance.

The last resort will be to take my custom to another bank. I imagine though that this would be a bit of a hassle, as several bodies individual or corporate will need to be told, and I'm bound to forget someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 May 21 - 02:41 AM

its a bloody disgrace

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 21 - 06:23 AM

It's dead easy to change account BobL - They do it all for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 15 Dec 21 - 01:09 PM

"More shared banking hubs will open in UK towns and villages as banks continue to close a swathe of branches.

Major banks have signed a new voluntary agreement which means an independent assessment of local needs will be carried out each time a branch is shut.

These reviews could recommend a shared branch is opened, an ATM installed or a Post Office upgraded. Banks will commit to deliver whatever is recommended.

This should ensure vulnerable customers and businesses have access to cash.

An estimated five million people still rely on cash, and basic banking services are considered key to the survival of notes and coins. For example, small businesses unable to deposit their takings nearby may choose to only accept card, rather than cash, payments."

Bank branches: Rival banks join forces to protect future of cash

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 05:14 AM

Due on BBC Radio 4 today at 11.00 Mon 29th

My name is...

My Name Is Chris

My Name Is...

Chris Fox owns a restaurant in Buckingham, where the last bank is due to close.

Running a small business himself, Chris understands that banks will sometimes need to close, but this will leave the town without any banking facilities, and he's worried what it will mean for him, his customers and his community. As consumer habits change, how should banks balance their business interests with the needs of often vulnerable members of the community?

Speaking to friends and fellow business owners in Buckingham, Chris gets a sense of how this will affect people, and speaking to Jenny Ross from the consumer organisation Which?, he hears that this is happening in more and more places. So what might be done about it? Chris heads to Essex, where he visits a Banking Hub and a pop-up bank, two initiatives which might offer part of the solution. Chris is really pleased to hear that government will legislate to protect the public's access to cash, but how would that work, and is there a danger that the remedy creates new problems?

Producer: Giles Edwards

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 03:13 AM

Barclays is closing many branches around here. They expect people to do online banking so that they can save money on paying staff and maintaining a building. Online banking is alright, but sometimes one needs face-to-face advice and online doesn't supply this.
Also, many elderly folk don't use the Internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 03:21 AM

My bank has retrenched to the main town (which Barclays has abandoned). They don't have tills, it is on the machines now. If you have a question there are a couple of people with laptops to answer questions, or modify things.

After years of anomalies with paying-in cheques on machines they still show an out of date form, so you pick-up the wrong one and have to ask!

The GF has to use the Post Office to pay-in monies, regularly!

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 03:57 AM

There's problems with getting holiday monies in Euros, too. Herself has an extensive rant on the whole subject, which really will not fit in this margin, but concludes with asking whether people have read (not seen) The Handmaid's Tale: if cash doesn't exist and everything's done by computer, it makes it much easier to (eg) freeze women's bank accounts, and take over their lives by decree.

Put sand in the surveillance-capitalism gearbox. Pay for something today with hard cash.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 04:27 AM

It’s easy enough to get Euros from the Post Office, many Tesco stores have a foreign exchange desk (perhaps others, but Tesco is my regular store), or they can be ordered online from specialist dealers.

Mrs. Backwoodsperson travels widely in Europe with her job, she gets her Euros from the Post Office, not her bank (which, as it happens, is straight across the street from the Post Office).

No reason to rely on a bank branch.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 05:51 AM

I still use cash all the time.

I go to my branch at least once a week. I would say that 99% of the time there are always other customers there. No doubt they are considering closing the branch at sometime in the future. It would be nice to think that they might talk to the customers before they make that decision. Somehow I doubt it.

I do realise that a lot of younger people prefer cashless transactions. A growing number of older people are also going cashless. It is also more helpful for a lot of businesses. There was less use of cash during the covid restrictions but I have seen reports that the use ofcash has started to increase again. When money is tight cash does help in controlling your spending.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 06:54 AM

> or [Euros] can be ordered online from specialist dealers

Herself doesn't do the Internet if she can possibly help it, and certainly not Internet banking of any sort. She's been married to a professional paranoid for too long for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 07:47 AM

”Herself doesn't do the Internet if she can possibly help it, and certainly not Internet banking of any sort. She's been married to a professional paranoid for too long for that.”

I foresee a time when, unless they live in one of our large cities, Herself and her Professional Paranoid will find themselves with very little option but to ‘do the internet’ where banking is concerned…

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 08:04 AM

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/barclays-to-close-178-branches-in-2022-18-closures-announced-in-august-akhJO3I4TLk1

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 08:43 AM

Mrs Bonzo is 81 and swears by internet banking, no excuses for pensioners!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 08:48 AM

Both Mrs Backwoodsperson and I do all our banking on the internet (I have no option - my bank’s local branch closed about three years ago). Works fine. If I need cash I get it out of the machine at one of the other banks, Tesco, or Morrison’s. If I need to pay in, I go to the post-office.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 09:36 AM

Situations and abilities vary, bonzo...

Neither of my parents (86/87) cope with Internet banking these days although mum is usually OK once I get her logged on. Dad hasn't managed to make payments for things like his newspaper bill (paid by bank transfer) or his council care bill (paid by card) in a few years and I have to make the payments for him. I have his banking app on my smart phone for this (and do have power of attorney). I do log them both on to their accounts every week or so to let them look through their accounts but also try to keep an eye on their accounts myself in case of anything untoward.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 11:28 AM

I wish the US Postal Service would take on some banking services, it's the perfect location for that and they're spread around through town. But right now we have a man as the head of the postal board of governors who is determined to close the USPS if possible. Even appointing more members to the board, Biden hasn't managed to get rid of him yet. (He can't fire the head of the board, only the board itself can do that.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 11:34 AM

How very strange, SRS! What’s the guy’s rationale for closing down USPS?

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 01:04 PM

Because he was appointed by Trump who wanted to kill quite a few federal agencies and their cognates. Louis DeJoy is a big investor in some of the other parcel delivery companies in competition with the USPS (he's big with United Parcel Service, I think.) He's the one who trashed and discarded the parcel sorting machines in 2021, totally messing up the parcel delivery process. Lots of perishable stuff was destroyed, etc. And still they can't get rid of him, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 01:25 PM

Aaahh, so it’s about putting money in the pockets of shareholders - the standard Conservatives’ reason for privatisation. Why am I not surprised?

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 02:25 PM

Sounds familiar. Dr Beeching is the one who's always blamed for junking the railways in the UK; he was given that job by the Transport Minister of the time, one Ernest Marples. The fact that Marples's road-building firm was in at the start of building the UK's motorway system is, of course, a mere detail.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 02:27 PM

Apologies: should have quoted SRS's msg when taking the time to reply to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 02:38 AM

Regarding obtaining cash, all the ATMs outside supermarkets etc, and also our local Post Offices, have a limit on how much cash one can get. It's around £100 here. Now there may on occasions be a need to access a greater sum, but if the bank's branch is no longer open, how does one do this? Stick ones bank card into an ATM several times? No, because it will get 'blocked'. I have in the past gone into the bank and managed to get a slightly larger sum from their counter assistant. Not now though.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 03:21 AM

We none of us trust ATMs (even the ones inside banks) any more: skimmers. Our daughter got money out a hole-in-the-wall once, and someone came up to her and told her that someone had fiddled with the ATM immediately thereafter. She managed to contact her bank just in time to stop her card before her account was emptied.

And I'm aware that "data" is not the plural of "anecdote". But once bitten, an' all that.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 03:49 AM

You're right MaJoc, I don't really trust the ATM system. I'm glad my husband is still 'around' to guard my back while I enter my pin. Sometimes a person behind me appears to be watching and I worry they've seen my pin.
We have a little mobile Post Office that comes to our village for two hours once a week, and the chap who serves is very nice. But naturally, he's limited as to how much cash he can issue. Ditto our little village shop - they do cash, but one has to spend £4 minimum first, which I think covers their cost of using the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 03:51 AM

Scammers will scam and, no matter how careful you are, it’s possible to get scammed.

Here’s another anecdote - my wife’s parents are in their eighties, and they are paranoid about being scammed. They don’t have internet banking, they pay as much as possible by cash, and they pay all their bills - gas & electricity, water & sewage, yadda yadda - at the post office. They won’t have a contactless debit card and still have the kind where you have to stick it in the machine and enter the PIN, and they won’t have a credit card at all. They don’t do internet purchasing.

But their bank account was hacked, and around a thousand pounds siphoned off. Of course they never found out how it was done, but a few months earlier there had been a massive breach of their ISP’s system, which leads one to believe that’s how someone got hold of their bank details. But that’s just a suspicion, and I guess they will never know the facts. Fortunately, their bank refunded the lost money.

No matter how careful you are, or how you allow paranoia to rule your financial doings, you will never be 100% safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 01:54 PM

Senoufou
ATMs outside supermarkets etc, and also our local Post Offices, have a limit on how much cash one can get. It's around £100 here.

my bank branch (a bus ride away) only has machine inside & out. When I needed £500 to buy a swish new(ish) laptop - I asked the bank ladies with their laptops how I was going to get more money out. Their solution was to happytap, and increase my limt to £300, and before I could say that was no use they pointed out they had "allowed" me to withdraw twice. Not sure that applies to cash machines outside, though.
I should have paid by card, at least I would have got ½% back

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 03:36 AM

Barclays have also banned any overdraft for their customers' current accounts across the board. This doesn't apply to me because I'm in the black at all times. But they just aren't bothered about their customers' needs.
And how dare they put limits on how much cash one can obtain from an ATM? It's our money not theirs!

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 04:53 AM

ATMs outside supermarkets etc, and also our local Post Offices, have a limit on how much cash one can get. It's around £100 here.

The maximum amount that can be withdrawn per day depends on the type of account but the standard limit is £300. Higher limits can normally be set by arrangement.

I see the limit as a wise precaution to limit the damage that could be done by a scammer.


And how dare they put limits on how much cash one can obtain from an ATM? It's our money not theirs!

ATMs are for use by all. How much more annoying would it be, not to be able to get any money out because the person before you had emptied the machine?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 01:07 PM

Quite

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:16 PM

From The Guardian

More ‘banking hubs’ to open across UK to tackle branch and ATM closures

"More shared “banking hubs” are to be rolled out across the UK to help communities hit by branch and ATM closures to get continued access to cash.

A banking hub is a shared service that operates in a similar way to a standard branch, with a counter service run by Post Office staff where customers of almost any bank can withdraw and deposit cash, make bill payments and carry out regular transactions.

There are also private spaces where customers can speak to someone, with trained specialists from different banks available on different days.

The additional 13 hubs announced on Tuesday take the total number planned to 25. However, of the first wave of 12 hubs, only two are in operation: in Rochford in Essex and Cambuslang, on the edge of Glasgow.

The other 10 already announced are expected to open over the next few months. It is understood that in some cases it has been taking longer than anticipated to find a suitable property for the shared branch or get the selected building ready."

++

And this bit, which did make me smile.

++

"The Cash Action Group includes senior representatives from big banks including Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds and NatWest.

The action group and Link said the Rochford and Cambuslang hubs “have proved extremely popular, with usage more than doubling since they have opened”.

They added: “As the impact of the cost of living crisis becomes increasingly apparent, the hubs are likely to become an ever more important resource, particularly in communities with minimal or limited cash access or banking facilities.”"

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Sep 22 - 02:18 AM

How interesting Rain Dog! So despite all the closing branches, the banks' employees are finding work in 'hubs'? I wonder if Norwich is due to have one? Perhaps it might be an idea to have just one single 'Bank company' throughout the UK, with one branch in each town, a sort of amalgamation/conglomerate? 'THE Bank'.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Jul 23 - 03:23 AM

From The Guardian today

UK banks are closing more than 1,000 accounts every day

"Banks are closing more than 1,000 accounts every working day, according to new data that has fuelled the growing row over so-called “debanking” and prompted Nigel Farage to call for a royal commission to investigate what he said was a scandal.

Hours after the former Ukip leader revealed he was spearheading a website to campaign on behalf of people whose accounts had been shut, data revealed a big jump in the numbers of customers dumped by their bank."

++

Since i first posted, HSBC have now closed in town. That does leave us with NatWest, Lloyds, Nationwide, Santander and the Post Office. Luckier than most.

I do still use my NatWest branch every week and there are always other customers there too.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 07:21 AM

Received a letter from NatWest today, telling me that their Dover branch will be closing 16th July.

I was at the bank yesterday and as usual there were other customers using the bank. Nearly 99‰ of the times I visit the bank, there are customers waiting to speak to a member of staff.

With the branch closing it will mean one less ATM in the town.

Nearest NatWest branch is in Folkestone, 7.4 miles away. I might have to reconsider applying for my bus pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 07:30 AM

I got a letter saying my branch in Rainham, Kent, is closing. Since I haven't lived near there for around forty years, it has been the branches near where I have lived that has affected me more.

Quite I lot of places nearby have a travelling bank that arrives once a week then departs half an hour later. Not exactly a long time if more than one person has a matter to discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 02:03 PM

Years ago in New Jersey, they closed the "Long Branch branch" of the "Red Bank bank".

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Apr 24 - 08:00 PM

A huge number of bank closures around here in the last few years, but escalating in the last 2-3 years. Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland, Santander and others. We now have to either drive 8 miles west to Livingston or jump on a bus to central Edinburgh - 45 minute ride ( don’t even think about taking your car into town!)
I have probably been guilty of encouraging this trend, by taking up internet banking a good few years ago. But now, if you want to make a bigger payment or withdrawal, it seems you either have to spend hours on the phone and subject yourself to the Spanish Inquisition or go to a branch and subject yourself to the same. We recently had some roof repairs done which cost a good few thousand, and we had the money in the bank. Checked the bank website for how much were allowed to pay in a single payment - up to £25,000, it said, well more than enough - went to pay the bill online - payment refused, account locked, VERY long phone call to get account unlocked and payment made. THEN they tell us there’s a £5000 limit on any individual transaction! This had NEVER been previously advised to us by email, letter, leaflet or any other means. Of course it’s because of all these scammers about, as well as the banks now being told that they do have to reimburse customers who have lost money to scammers. But it’s hard on those of us trying to make a totally legitimate transaction with OUR money!

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Apr 24 - 10:42 PM

My banking changed a lot during COVID; I switched over to using the app on my phone to deposit checks instead of driving by the credit union. I get cash from their ATMs on occasion, though I shop for my ex often and he pays me back with cash so I have enough for walking around in my wallet.

Coins - I rarely handle them. They go into my back jeans pocket and when I get home are dropped into a box in the kitchen. One of these days I'll have to take them somewhere (rolled up by me first) and exchange them for bills.

Tying into what Tattie said, I was in the credit union one day and the customer in front of me was trying to get cash for gift cards and it was clear to the teller that they were being purchased because the customer was being scammed, but she had to be careful in telling him what she could and couldn't do as far as his request. Heartbreaking.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 18 Jul 24 - 09:30 AM

The NatWest branch in Dover closed yesterday. When I posted in March, I was not aware that Lloyds had previously announced the closure of their brancb in Dover. We are left with Santander, Nationwide and the Post Office.

I was not aware of Banking Framework 3.
From Money Saving Expert February 2022

Post Office Inks Deal to Continue Banking Services for 3 Years

"Customers of most of the UK’s largest banks and building societies will keep their ability to complete basic personal and business banking tasks at Post Office counters until the end of 2025, providing crucial access to cash on high streets vacated by bank branches.

The Post Office announced on Monday that it had secured a new deal with 30 major banks after months of negotiation. Under Banking Framework 3, which will run for three years from the beginning of 2023, customers of those banks will be able to deposit and withdraw cash, deposit cheques, and make balance queries at the Post Office’s 11,500 counters across the UK."

This part caught by eye

"However, some bank executives on Friday predicted that Banking Framework 3 would be the final deal struck with the Post Office, as the disappearance of cash will eliminate the need for physical banking locations.

“Ongoing demand for cash is debatable and continues to fall rapidly,” an unnamed banking boss told Sky News. “Most people think cash will have largely disappeared in three years.”"

++

There is no doubt that demand for cash has fallen. Some of us might well think that one of the reasons it has fallen is down to banking practices.

I also suspect that banking fraud has risen with the increase in online banking. Swings and roundabouts.

I am surprised that there does not appear to be much public debate about the fall in cash transactions. Will have to wait and see what happens from 1st January 2026.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jul 24 - 09:30 AM

I hear reports that youngsters these days have to have the concept of cheques explained to them, as they've never encountered them in real life. How long before the same is true of bank notes :-( ?

.... Long, long ago (1960s or 1970s), there was a cartoon in Practical Electronics which showed a tramp pulling his pockets inside-out. The caption was: "A member of the cashless society?" Given today's kerfuffle with Microsoft systems getting lunched and taking pay-by-card with them, that cartoon displayed considerable foresight.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Jul 24 - 03:47 PM

I agree that the younger generation are just used to managing without cards. I know that there does seem to be a tendency to make us all go cashless. I am not happy with the fact that we are not really having a discussion about it.

Today was a great example with various computer systems experiencing problems. Earlier this week some of the supermarkets were unable to process card transactions. There was a staff member outside my supermarket telling customers it was cash only payments. I asked her if she had drawn the short straw for that job.

Banks close. Businesses have problems depositing cash. Businesses decide to go cashless.

Here in town, some of the smaller businesses are cash only. I assume this is probably due to the charges involved with card payments. That can be quite a considerable cost for the business.

We will have to wait and see how the banks and the government proceed next year, when the current arrangement with the Post Office comes to an end.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 03:26 AM

An article in The Guardian led me to the Payment Choice Alliance (PCA),

On their page they had an article on how Sweden was dealing with the situation.

Sweden’s Far From Accidental “Cashless” Journey Is HALTED By The Swedish Government

It is a short article, updated 26.6.24, about how the Swedish Government is taking measures to ensure that cash is still available. It seems that back in 2018, some were saying Sweden was on course to be cashless by 2023.

I thought i would check online for further details. I was a little surprised to find a spate of recent articles like the following from Fortune, dated 21.6.24

Why going cashless has turned Sweden from one of the safest countries into a high-crime nation

Guess you reap what others sew.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 05:26 AM

speaking of cheques as we were -
shortly before I retired in 2007 I read in the OVERHEARD column in a
local paper (a real paper!)
First girl - I did jury duty & they gave me this nice bookmark.
2nd girl - that's not a bookmark, it's a cheque, take it to your bank & they'll give you money for it!

Last week I bought a very yummy croissant at a small coffee shop/bakery that only takes cash!

It's getting harder to get cash here with all the branch & ATM closures, tho private ATMs are around which charge for the privilege of giving out cash! My small bank only has one branch now - Head Office in the CBD, just down the road from me, but I get cash from my local supermarket.

And our Post Office branches also offer banking services for some banks.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 06:10 AM

I imagine that the situation in Australia is a lot harder due to the size of the country and the remoteness of some of the communities.

Here in the UK most of the ATMs are provided by LINK , a not for profit organisation.

From Wikipedia:

"As of 2023, there were about 38,500 free to use cash machines and 11,000 cash machines that charge for withdrawals. Typically, around £1.6billion is withdrawn from LINK ATMs each week. The average withdrawal is around £82 and the average UK adult withdraws around £1,500. In the UK, around 90% of cash withdrawals are made from cash machines."

And

"LINK is made up of 32 member organisations. These include high street banks (such as Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds Bank and NatWest) and building societies (such as Nationwide and the Coventry Building Society), the Post Office and independent ATM operators."

So, as long as my bank remain a member, I should be able to access free cash withdrawals.

Just have to wait see how much longer the banks will continue to provide this service.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 07:04 AM

people & businesses in small country towns have huge problems when the bank leaves. The nearest bank could be 30 to 100 Km away & folk who head to the bank might also buy their groceries there, too ...

a search on "bank closures in country towns" brought up lots of reports in regional newspapers!

Country towns banking on branch closure inquiry report
Parliament of Australia - Bank closures in regional Australia REPORT - May 2024

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 07:55 AM

Thanks for those links, Sandra. It is a problem that is affecting a lot of countries. Banks are a major part of the social fabric. The fact that they are private businesses does make it more difficult to make them accept their social responsibilities.

Covid certainly played a part in the increasing use of cashless methods of payment. Before that, every bank seemed intent on persuading customers to do more online. They say customers want to do more online banking. That is largely a result of banking policy.

I do realise that the vast majority of online customers are happy with that service most of the time. It is when problems arise when people might be happier dealing with a member of staff rather than a chatbot.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 11:09 AM

When Herself asks why her bank is reducing their counter staff,* she's told it's because everybody does Internet banking. Her pointed comment is that people wouldn't need to do Internet banking if there were enough counter staff.

Personally, I suspect those telling her this forget to add "for sufficiently sloppy values of *everybody*".

* Usually when the machines in the bank are feeling grumpy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 11:14 AM

I did email NatWest about the closure of the Dover branch and the 'push' towards online banking generally. Yesterday I received a phone call from the Folkestone branch and had a 15 minute conversation about modern banking practices and grumpy old men. It was quite a wide ranging chat. We did not agree on a number of matters but I appreciated their willingness to take the time to speak to me.

Of course I would have been more appreciative if they said they were going to reverse their decision to close the Dover branch.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 01:51 AM

Article in The Guardian today

Surprise jump in number of UK people mainly using cash for daily spending

"Banking body reports increase to 1.5m in 2023 – the highest since before Covid – despite move to cashless society

There has been an unexpected jump in the number of people who mainly use notes and coins for their daily spending, despite the UK moving closer to becoming a cashless society, a report has found.

The volume of contactless and mobile payments increased last year, while the number of cash payments resumed a downward trajectory after enjoying a brief comeback in 2022, the banking body UK Finance noted in its annual report on the UK payments market.

However, there was a 66% increase in the number of people who prefer to use cash for their everyday spending.

The estimated number of “mainly use cash” people has fallen every year for several years and stood at 900,000 in 2022, but it leapt to 1.5 million last year – the highest figure since before the coronavirus pandemic.

UK Finance said the increase may reflect those people who have gone back to using cash to help manage their finances during the cost of living crisis.

Last year there was a rise in interest in a budgeting trend called “cash stuffing” – or the cash envelope system – made popular on social media. This involves dividing cash into envelopes labelled into different categories such as groceries, bills, a rainy day and Christmas shopping. The idea is that it helps cash-strapped households keep track of their spending and saving."

++

The UK Finance report can be found here

One third of UK adults now use mobile contactless payments

"Key figures for 2023

The total number of payments made in the UK increased by five per cent to 48.1 billion 

Almost four out of ten (38 per cent) of all payments made in the UK during 2023 were contactless

One third of UK adults were using mobile contactless payments at least once a month

The number of cash payments fell to six billion, with cash representing 12 per cent of all payments made in the UK

Faster Payments overtook Direct Debit to become the third most used payment type in the UK in 2023

In 2023 the total number of payments made in the UK was 48.1 billion, up from 45.7 billion in 2022.

Consumers made 85 per cent of the total number of payments (41.0 billion payments) with businesses (commercial firms, government, and not-for-profit organisations) making the other 15 per cent (7.1 billion payments). "


++

Onward and upward or onward and downward?

Penny for your thoughts?

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 11:42 PM

”Last year there was a rise in interest in a budgeting trend called “cash stuffing” – or the cash envelope system – made popular on social media. This involves dividing cash into envelopes labelled into different categories such as groceries, bills, a rainy day and Christmas shopping. The idea is that it helps cash-strapped households keep track of their spending and saving."

Exactly what my hard-up mum and dad used to do back in the ‘50s and ‘60s except, instead of envelopes, they used tins labelled e.g. ‘Gas’, ‘Electricity’, ‘Rent’, etc., etc.

As the saying goes, “There’s nothing new under the sun…” (Ecclesiastes, 1:9)

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 06:12 AM

Article from The Guardian yesterday

Future of 1p and 2p pieces in doubt after Treasury orders no new coins

"Treasury officials have for the first time ordered no new coins to be minted for general circulation, putting the future of the 1p and 2p pieces in doubt.

The government has not placed an annual order with the Royal Mint and does not expect to order any new 1p and 2p coins in the coming years, the Evening Standard reported.

Treasury officials are reported to be considering a number of options including scrapping those coins altogether as the use of cash declines across society.

A spokesperson for HM Treasury told the Standard: “The Royal Mint produces coins according to expected demand, existing buffer stocks and orders placed by industry.

“We are confident there are enough coins in the system, with estimates of approximately 27bn in circulation in the UK. The Treasury has no current plans to change the mix of UK coins.”

Proposals over the future of 1p and 2p are expected to be put forward for discussions with ministers.

Britain’s currency decimalisation was introduced in 1971 when Edward Heath was prime minister.

A coin has not been taken out of circulation in the UK since the half-penny was removed in 1984.

New 2p coins have not been minted since 2021, according to the most recent figures from the Royal Mint, while none were made between 2018 and 2020."

++

When they do disappear it will result in a small increase in prices. I don't expect them to be around for much longer.

I am still in mourning for the tanner going in 1980 and the decimal ha'penny going in 1984.

I don't think I ever recovered from the loss of lsd.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 08:45 AM

from Australian Mint website

Although both coins were withdrawn from circulation commencing in February 1992, they are still legal tender. This means that they can still be used to purchase goods and can be deposited with financial institutions in the normal manner.

Once the 1 cent and 2 cent piece were removed from circulation they were recycled for new and exciting purposes. The Bronze medals given out at the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games were made of the 1 and 2 cent pieces!
~~~~~

I have a non-collection of foreign coins I've been given in change over the years & it includes three Oz coins - one is a 1961 shilling, & the others are 1 cent coins. I really must downsize it to a coin collecting friend. It also includes a real US $5 note - dunno where that came from. Wot a shame I didn't remember it a few years back when friends went to America.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 02:09 PM

Rain Dog: A coin has not been taken out of circulation in the UK since the half-penny was removed in 1984.

I know you're just quoting the Guardian, so the words are theirs, not yours.

It should be that "the denominations have remained the same since 1984".
Coins have been taken out of circulation ('demonetised') in that time.
The larger 10p & 5p were demonetised in the early 90s, as were the florin (two shillings = 10p) and shilling (=5p) at that time.
The 'large' 50p was demonetised in 1998, and the 'round pound' in 2017.