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BS: compassion or honesty
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Subject: compassion or honesty From: Iodine Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:40 AM i sometimes struggle with the morality of compassion and honesty. which is the most valuable. when is it morally right to lie and substitute compassion for honesty and visa versa. is puzzlement at times |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:02 AM Iodine, How wonderful to be here right now to reply and to provide the following for your review! You might be interested in knowing that since the thread's last post, I have determined that there needs be no conflict between honesty and compassion. I am deeply interested in discussing this further with you, and I am sure that others who posted to the thread referenced also have much to share. (As will others.) I'm headed for bed. Shall we pick it up tomorrow? ~Susan~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Iodine Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:48 AM ahhhhhh but there is conflict. if a man were lying there with a bullet hole in his chest, and he expressed a terror of dying and you knew he was going to die, what would you do? look into the face of terror, be honest and say "yes you are going to die" and be telling the truth,and make his last moments more terror filled, or, look at him with compassion and say " everything will be o.k., do not fear". if so then you just lied. conflict. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Iodine Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:07 AM Susan, Thank you for the link, was mose enjoyable to read, but conflict exists in every entry. i feel there is no real answer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Little Neophyte Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:01 AM When you are in a situation where you do not know what to do, ask your heart, it will give you the best answers. Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Allan C. Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:45 AM Or flip a coin;-] |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Neil Lowe Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:54 AM Telling a dying person that "everything's going to be ok" may not necessarily be perceived as a lie, but as a prediction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Little Neophyte Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:57 AM That is a very beautiful thought Neil Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Allan C. Date: 30 Mar 00 - 08:08 AM I said "flip a coin". But perhaps I should explain. I learned some years ago that it was one way to make a decision about something which seems to have only two answers, each of which appear to have equal weight. After the coin makes the decision for you, ask yourself how you feel about that decision. Then do what is in your heart. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 08:15 AM One should be honest, but to tell someone they are going to die could hasten the event.. Tell the truth.. ie. You are injured, but I/WE shall do everything to help you. By giving comfort to the dying you will not hasten the event and may relieve the process without lying... Those of us who have had to do this will attest to the fact that you neither lie, nor predict, just try to comfort and control the inevitable. For other situations I have always found the truth hurts less than a lie in the end; remember the truth is not always appreciated at the time it is given. Yours, Aye. Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 30 Mar 00 - 08:53 AM I agree wholeheartedly with Dave. the truth hurts less than a lie in the end; remember the truth is not always appreciated at the time it is given. I believe that people confronted with dying or serious illness prefer honesty with compassion, even if they don't understand it initially. And often times, we change our minds about how we accept adversity after we've had time to reflect. I saw a beautiful quote (by the senator who died of ALS, can't remember his name) in the intensive care hallway when my father was seriously injured. It said something to the effect that in that place they tried to provide love, honesty and compassion. If anyone knows the quote, I'd love to have it. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 09:17 AM There are lies, and there are lies, and the intent is largely the difference. Compassion leads us to try to speak truths that others can experience, within their limits, not to overwhelm them "because it is the truth". Speaking the truth about porno to a nine-year-old is untrue even though the teller details "facts". It is important to remember, IMHO, that we are dealing here iwth live human communications, not academic papers or arbitrary standards of so called "objectivity". It is terribly important to be true to yourself, to be able to know what you know and to see what you see. But this does not mean you must blindly spout all the facts you know to anyone at any time. It is not good communication to do so. Just because something can be said to be true, does not mean it is the right thing to say to a given person at a given time. Who you are speaking to, and what you intend to do, are key elements. A compassionate person prefers the truth, generally, because on the whole honesty is better than dishonesty. I would say that courage, integrity to what you know, and compassion are far more important than subscribing to a moral code that says you must say the whole truth at all times to anyone. But with people of good will it is generally the most helpful way to go. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Mooh Date: 30 Mar 00 - 09:32 AM Iodine, Perhaps this is why we should believe in, and practice forgiveness. If we lie with intent to comfort and protect, we should forgive and be forgiven for our sincerity of effort. Compassion and honesty do not exist in a vacuum, they exist with other virtues within morality, which together will lead you out of your puzzlement. (We sometimes use words which do not say what we mean in order to convince ourselves that "everything will be alright", moreso to delude ourselves perhaps than to comfort someone else.) At any rate, it works for me. The value of compassion and honesty depend on the situation and are not absolute in their relation to each other. My point of view. Peace. Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: canoer Date: 30 Mar 00 - 09:39 AM I think it's wise to precede all moral-code statements with the word, "normally." Normally, I will always tell the truth. Because life can throw up exceptional situations, which need flexibility and imagination instead of a rigid pre-made code. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 09:41 AM Amos, Because the truth hurts, people tend avoid it. I always use the truth; and have never regreted doing so despite the consequences and retaliations.. Yours,Aye. Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Little Neophyte Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:05 AM Well what about this one.......... Lets say you are married and love your wife very much but for some reason you have a one night fling with someone else. The next day you regret what you did, or you come to realize your marriage means so much to you that you will never do that kind of thing again. Is it worth telling your wife the truth? Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:06 AM Well, Davey, I don't know that the truth hurts, depending on which truth, and who ye're speaking to. I think laying out the truth raises the ability of those around you to face the truth, which does them a favor by making them stronger. And it is sure easier to understand than a fabric of PR tissues. "Tell the truth and shame the devil" is (normally) good advice. But I am not going to discuss. say, my sex life with Gargoyle no matter how moral I feel! :>) Why? Don't trust him. Being strong enough to speak the truth and handle the consequences is a great virtue, to my mind. But I have seen scalawags use that to justify saying really nasty things "because it's just the truth" (when it isn't). So the courage you show is wise, perhaps tempered with the wisdom that "truth" is relative to viewpoint. A slimeball sees the world in a more hurtful way, and his telling of the so-called truth can be more harm than virtue, because it is filtered through his own emotional distortions. "Consider the source" is great wisdom, too. Despite such sophistry, I am glad you follow the code you describe...proud to know you, therefore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:07 AM WHICH truth is THE truth? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: kendall Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:24 AM A famous eastern guru once said "The greatest of all attributes is straightforwardness." You can be honest without being cruel. If you cant, then you need to expand your command of the language. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: harpgirl Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:31 AM ...this is a music site, Iodine. I for one would rather see music threads. Philosophical discussions belong on some other site. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:55 AM Little Neo.... In this day and age yes I would tell her, and expect the full consequences. Such am event would warrant a medical reason for her to cease relations with me. Far better than the possibility of spreading aids to your family, dont you think? Yours,Aye.Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 30 Mar 00 - 12:09 PM OK Harpgirl, let's turn this into a music thread. Little Neo & Dave (tam). What songs would you sing to her 'before' and 'after' telling her? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 12:20 PM I would be dead after; or singing Soprano mate... |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 30 Mar 00 - 12:23 PM Seems to me this discussion is music related in that we have had great discussions on songs with hurtful venacular and whether it is appropriate to use those terms nowadays or to change the words so that they do not offend. Most recent I can think of was on "coon songs". While the old words may have been the "truth" of their age, the "truth" now, is that they are hurtful and denigrating, so singing them doesn't seem very compassionate no acceptable to a lot of audiences. Just an example, IMO. As to flipping a coin, I was always taught and still practise, that there is always a third alternative, that we are never confronted with an "either or", much as I hope we can find so for the Mudcat. katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: jeffp Date: 30 Mar 00 - 12:47 PM The beauty of flipping a coin is that, when the coin is in the air, you realize what you want the answer to be. Ignore the result of the coin flip and go with your gut. Chances are that you will have hit on the right thing to do. jeffp |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: thosp Date: 30 Mar 00 - 01:00 PM "it ain't often easy it ain't often kind did you ever have to make up your mind" i try to stick with the truth,until a lie seems the more humane thing--- i would try not to tell a truth to someone--who would then go off and hurt someoneelse with it--- peace (Y) thosp |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 01:15 PM It is absolutely worth telling her the truth. Especially if the truth is you made an huge mistake, desperately which you had not, and are full ready to amend the damage. Your marriage will either survive or it won't. If it does it will have been strenghtened and annealed by the emotional fires brought out by your lapse and subsequent truth telling. If it does not, you have learned a valuable lesson in consequences; but if it is strong at the foundation, it will survive and be better for it. Hiding it, on the other hand, may keep things pleasant on the surface, but the internal bonds start dry-rotting the day that starts, and sooner or later the dryrot will collapse one way or another. As to the wrongness or rightness various threads, this one points to the inside story of the blues in a deep way, and is legitimate fare, but you know, the name is on the outside, and there is an unlimited freedom not to read it. Personally I find the pursuit of folkmusic without any reference to the tumult and passion and pain in which it is naturally embedded to be a dry pursuit, sort of like panning for gold at Disneyland...but that's just me. I think there's enough room here for variety. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 01:43 PM Amen Brother Amos.. Variety is the spice of life.. but in this context it could strike a painfull chord for some; perhaps a guilt chord for others.. Is this musically correct, or should I use a different key? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,TTCM Date: 30 Mar 00 - 01:54 PM Well we've always been extremely honest and candid with our opinions here, and tend to say what the silent really majority think, but wouldn't publicly put in print. Judging by the responses to our postings, it's obvious why the silent majority remain so. TTCM --the other Mudcat clique-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:00 PM Well, you could discover you choice in singing out led you to B flat, but next time, you might think it better to C sharp...ugghh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:39 PM Harpgirl, That's funny, I thought this was a Cafe FOR music people who are... whole people.. and share many common interests for the perspective of music people?? Defined by its collective membership and voice, not limited to any one paradigm? If we met at a 3D Cafe and talked about music, you'd get up and walk out if I asked after your family? Here in my part of the world we START with the personal stuff (from the mundane to the sublime) before gettin' down to bizness... it's a rural thing, you know, a politeness... Have been corrected by my more-rural and more-gracious friends often enough to think we don't do ENOUGH of that here! Well, go figure. ~Susan~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jim the Bart Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:42 PM Is a discussion of the nature of "truth" not a musical thread? I would hope that anyone playing, singing or writing music would have spent some time pondering the nature of what is true. There are many ways to improve as a "player" One is to work on your technique. Another is to work on your knowledge and understanding of your art. One way that is often overlooked is to work on your "self". As Mason Williams once said, "it's a cheap trick, but it works." By the way - I am relatively new to this forum but enjoy greatly the spirit of the discourse. It is truly a rare and precious thing. One last thought: The conflict between truth-telling and compassion lessens when we stop insisting on "the" truth and remember that all we ever have for certain is "our" truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Felisi 52' Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:52 PM I recently read a wonderful article on this very subject: It spoke of this friend the writer had who always told the truth. If he was served a meal which he didn't like, he would not say it was wonderful and try to eat as much as possible between grins, but would speak his mind. He would also comment freely on any subject telling anyone who asked exactly how he felt. For this reason, he was rarely invited to dinner parties, and when he was, people seldom asked for his opinion. He was not overly critical mind you, he enjoyed as much and was just as easy going as anyone else, nor did he complain much at all. He just told the truth.
In the article, the writer asked who would truly want someone like that around, especially at an event like a party.
I have a dear friend who always thinks about sparing everyone's feelings. He would rather endure a minor (or major) hardship than make anyone he knows feel bad about something. He shows compassion towards people even when his true feelings or the truth itself directly conflicts with those compassionate acts. For this reason, it makes it quite difficult for me to remain friends with him. I can never be too sure if what he is saying is the truth, or if it's what he thinks I need or want to hear. I would rather suffer a hundred painful truths, than one "compassionate" lie. The latter will forever be more painful to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:54 PM Garg/TTCM: You exemplify the point I was making; for example, there is nothing honest about your posts being couched in the first person plural, and it makes your message more obscure and more discomfiting because one has to adjust for the fact that for whatever reason, you are a stranger to the honesty of saying "I think....". Again, there is nothing honest about saying that you represent a silent majority, an un-named, invisible collectivity flung up to add some sort of spooky weight to a viewpoint you do not have the courage to claim plainly in the first place. Again, there is nothing honest about stating an extremely negative opinion in unspecified terms, merely as an antagonistic and mean opinionated conclusion -- such as "you suck" or "why don't you hop out", which provides no grounds for understanding and no path for improvement, and makes your personal rancor impossible to understand and, evidently, impossible to resolve. There is nothing honest about hiding facts ("I disagree with your statement that...") behind these broad-brush, non-specific, negative generalizations. Again, there is nothing honest about attributing motivations to the mysterious alleged "majority" which you style yourself as representing, such as "would not put publicly in print..." implying even more negativity and unspoken confusion than you yourself have, and implying it is held by many when in fact it is here being voiced by one -- you. So while you have engaged in uninhibited and uncensored slander, I would hardly dignify it with the name candor, and would put it in quite a different category than honesty, in my humble opinion. I hope I have named clearly above the reasons I think this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:06 PM That all seems true Amos, but I think I'm bothered by that phrase from TTCM----"silent majority." I know I've heard that around here before.... from somebody else though............Geez, I just can't seem to place it.........Now who else would have used that? I guess my memory just ain't what it used to be. Or maybe it is......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:13 PM Yeah, I know what you mean, Spaw, just can't place it, huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:13 PM I think the phrase was made infamous by Richard Milhaus Nixon, originally...I could be wrong here...but if so, it seems about right. If you can't stand on the facts and state your piece plainly, claim several billion invisible supporters to make a bad argument seem overwhelming. Cheap trick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:18 PM Haha, and the silent majorityjust like the moral majority, is neither! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,TTCM Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:21 PM 'Spaw, your opinion is entirely irrelevant to us. On the other hand Harpgirl expresses a valid opinion and is crapped on in the process. What is so exquisitely ironic about this forum, is that those who disagree vehemently with our postings, are the ones causing us to post in the first place and, are the ones responsible for bringing this place to the abyss where it now resides. Want to be rid of TTCM? Talk about your knowledge of wood, glues, experiences related to hammered dulcimer buidling, advise and volunteer HELPFUL musical advice to others who are new here or those seeking information. Encourage others here who have an angstrom of musical thought to post THOSE thoughts, and leave the tripe and the buffoonery to private email messages. TTCM --the other clique on Mudcat-- ...oh and for the umpteenth goddamn time, WE ARE NOT GARGOYLE or have any connection to him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:26 PM I suppose "noisy minority" wouldn't be good either..... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:29 PM Geez, Garg, don't get your knickers in a twist -- so you apprenticed under him. So you learned to emulate his underhanded, scurrilous, mean, needling, soulless, neurotic, obsessive methods of hidden communications and making the environment seem much more vile than it really is by using phony generalizations with no substance to them...so, I was wrong! I guess the price you pay for lurking around in shadows hiding is not being seen very clearly, and my vision gets kind clouded up when I deal with flying horseshit anyway. Sorreee. Send me a photo so i'll know ya next time! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:31 PM If want to talk about music, GO AHEAD, and quit bitching about those who want to discuss this life we sing about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Lonesome EJ Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:36 PM Gee, Amos. Is it just me or did I detect a note of compassion amid all that honesty? (just getting back on topic) |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,TTCM Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:46 PM Definition of Amiss: Male version of Katlaughing, Sorcha, Praise, all rolled into one; (1) constructive/relevant-to-this-forum post for every 50 postings. Suggestion: Spend less time here and more time with Barky. Nuf said phoaks. (hmmmmm..spelled the word the same way as Katlaughing and Sorcha. Does this mean TTCM is them?) TTCM --the other clique on Mudcat-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:57 PM Spoken like a true conscience, TTCM. I will take your advice. Thanks for coming up with specifics for once... Oh, by the way, a clique is a collective noun...it implies plural membership... so it isn't really honest to speak for one unless you are an appointed representative individual. It's a tad less than candid. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Ebbie Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:57 PM twitchy tongue casting mud, I detect neither compassion nor honesty in your communications, but a private agenda that is meant to serve only you. So what are you doing in this thread? E. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Jack Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:10 PM One problem I have with this question is that none of us go about a complete and clear understanding of any situation, and so the balance we seek is not between honesty and compassion, but between our imperfect understanding of each at any given time. Also, how often is one faced with a dillema between pure honesty or pure compassion? Most moral decisions require a response that includes both, with the weighting of each a function of the degree of imperfection in our own understanding. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:15 PM Amos, If he's NOT Mr. Leading Underscore, then there must be TWO of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Anthony Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:18 PM Dear Batholomew et al, I think you've nailed it, especially with regard to the relationship between truth and creativity -- the wonderful dynamic that is so much apart of any earnest voyage of self-discovery. I love the little sermon Arlo Guthrie preaches in the middle of Amazing Grace on the Precious Friends CD. He's paraphrasing Lee Hays and says something like, "It was Lee who taught me that first you've got to do for yourself what you want to for the rest of the world." It's a telling comment because it implies that truth and goodness, which are close to the same thing, are not group activities. And that true honesty involves mastery of the rather painful art of relating to one another as individuals. That's why political and corporate promises ring hollow generally, and why collectivist thoeries of government seem especially apt to breed the very sorts of oppression their proponents wish to amend. The truth that matters is the truth one tells while looking one other person straight in the eye. Anyone who's ever played music in front of an audience knows this. It may sound pollyannaish, but it has been my experience that people who are really honest with themselves aren't very conflicted when it comes to saying and doing the right thing, even when faced with tough moral choices. Look at it this way (at least those of you who are people of faith): Does God ever lie? I don't believe so. On the other hand, does He (or She) torture us with revelations we cannot bear or comprehend? Again, I personally think not, though there will be those who disagree. In any event, when we're communicating difficult truths to someone under our authority, or who depends on us for their well-being, or who is our friend, or our lover, or who wants to hurt us or ask us for something we cannot give because it will harm them, are we not -- in a small way -- in the same boat with God? Isn't that what being created in the divine image really means? The ideal here is not mere (as you Brits would say) truth but truth tempered with wisdom. Surely that is hardly the same as telling a lie, even a kind one. Think of it like this: Why do many of us (though I'm sure not all) dislike most kinds of mainstream pop music? Because it's inherently wicked? Because it's badly played? Because the musicians have no skill or talent? Because making music for money is evil? None of these assumptions hold water in a literal sense. Rather we dislike such music because we perceive it to be dishonest. Even little kids can tell the difference between commercial ear candy and songs that genuinely minister to the human spirit – at least until they become teenagers and by definition temporarily insane! Sorry to have gone on so, but this is a huge question and one that speaks to the heart of what playing, singing and listening to folk music should be about. Yours Yingily and Yangily Tony |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:28 PM What harpgirl said, BTW, was that she, for one, would rather see more music threads. This is a fact -- her preference is plainly stated, owned and signed. It is almost undoubtedly a true fact, since I cannot imagine why she would falsifyher own opinions. She bravely states what she sees. The second thing she says is not a fact, but an opinion: philosophical discussions belong elsewhere. We can assume she was including this as part of her preference, rather than a policy dictate which would have to come from the policy setter for the group, namely Max Seigel. I don't see any crapping -- she was not trounced, invalidated, subjected to snide raillery for her opinion; somone else who did not agree fully discussed their view of things, comparing opinions. So where's the "crap"? Oh, p'raps it was a projection. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,TTCM Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:30 PM Ebbie: Last time we checked, this was an equal opportunity tripe-menusia-opinionated-flamethrowing-condescending-revivalist-healing-bullshitting-off topic posting-FORUM not limited to anyone in particular. TTCM --the other clique on Mudcat-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:47 PM Ya know, sometimes I think its one person and sometimes I think its Garg........I may be wrong on both counts. Now in the last post, I was leaning some to Garg, 'cause it took me a minute or so to figure out what the hell "menusia" was..........I thought it was some kind of anti-feminine remark at first, but alas, it was just bad spelling. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Rick Fielding Date: 30 Mar 00 - 04:48 PM Well I don't know, but if you ARE Gargoyle, you sure learned how to spell in a hurry! Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:00 PM To menusia!!! That would be a GREAT Mudcat name. I may take it myself. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:11 PM ..How appropro, Praise.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Ebbie Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:21 PM Well, twitchy, perhaps it's good that you're trying to broaden your outlook. You know, one of my brothers is like you (or are you a woman?) but the rest of us eventually decided our mother just hadn't wanted him. What's your excuse? (Ok, OK, I will now stop the name calling.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:23 PM Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, eh, phoaks?**BG** |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Iodine Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:24 PM Thank you GUEST ANTHONY, it was indeed those lines by Arlo Guthrie that caused me to ponder this question, especially since i have been in the position that i had to decide truth or compassion or trying to effectively combine the two. So see Harp there is a musical thread here, and many songs deal with emotions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Ebbie Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:26 PM subsiding... |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Sophocleese, cookieless in Ontario... Date: 30 Mar 00 - 06:31 PM If you wish you can relate everything that people talk about to folk music, or sex, or politics, or baseball or aphids. So please, please stop using the silly argument that "Folk is about everything therefore we can talk about everything and we will still be talking about folk." I'm not saying this is a lousy topic, clearly I'm reading it so I was interested enough to look, but it is not about folk or blues music its about people and ethical considerations. Please don't argue that folk and blues is about people and ethical considerations, ALL artistic expression is about people and their concerns, only the language is different. Forums or discussions where all the guidelines about content go out the window end up being led by personalities, good or bad but always somehow forceful, not topics. TTCM's imputation of cliquishness probably stems form this. So to get back to topic. I do not consider myself to be part of a clique, I don't think of myself as one of the forceful posters in this forum, more often I feel I am ignored and powerless, but I was taught that you must always speak truth to power even when that can be difficult, so I'm speaking my truth to the powers here on this forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:01 PM Soph-- Re: "I was taught that you must always speak truth to power ..." I have found that truth is never wasted, and often not ignored even when there is no response or a negative response. Someone I cared about a great deal helped me with that. I had spoken much truth to deaf ears with him, or so I thought! About 6 years later, we were at the same storytelling event and he sought me out. He was Telling and I was just there to listen, and I certainly would not have presumed to go open old biz with his performance coming up. So I was really taken off guard when he approached me and said, "I'm so glad you're here, there's something I have wanted to tell you for a long time. I just wanted to tell you-- all those things you tried to help me see-- you were right. The day I could see that, my life began to change. Thank you so much." Well of course I didn't deserve that amount of thanks, because he had done his own changing, and that had been much harder than any courage I'd had to screw up to tell him my "humble" opinion! *BG* But his thanks were so loud and clear that I was able to see something I had never considered before. What I took away from this was that if you speak the truth in love-- including sometimes the truth that there are things you need to say or would like to say but won't until you can say them effectively-- it has a funny way of sinking in when it is needed most. It is absorbed and goes into some kind of holding place until it is just what you always wanted to hear. (Usually we forget that we had heard it before and think that it's our own brilliant courage!!!) After my friend told me this, I thought about how I receive truth. Suddenly I had a list, as long as both arms, of people who had been perfectly right and whose truth I had not been ready to hear. And it kicked in later just like my friend described. And I hadn't even realized it, much less thanked them. I also learned as a result of thinking about this and trying it with important truths, that our responsibility is WHAT and HOW and WHEN and WHY we tell. We must be responsible about this to any extent we can, good days and bad, doing the best we can at any given moment. But we cannot be responsible for how it will be received. We can care how people will feel and react, and be as helpful as we can, but it is really up to us each how we receive truth and WHEN we let things sink in. And on that side we also do the best we can at all times-- at least one of you in particular has found out on one day or another that my openness to hear truth can vanish like smoke in a gale-- when I am not up to wrestling things out, the best truth I can be offered at that moment is, "I love you, I am not going away, I see that you're miserable, and we'll get to the other stuff later, and I know we'll work it through cuz we'll stick with it till it's as peaceful as we can make it, for us both." And that is how I think of our accountability for the truth we tell. Are we willing to take care of natural the consequences of however well or poorly we told truth? Loving positivity or harsh correction, and all in between-- are we there to keep someone company while they look at the stuff that the truth has brought out into the open? Because, see, truth is never in a vacuum. It makes more truth start to flow. It's as much a process as an event, as much an expression of your valus as a value itself. (Oh dear!! It makes me think of friends in the 70's-- you knew someone was a friend if they not only brought their stash over, but they hung around enjoying the effects with you till it mostly wore off!! I hate it when people don't do that!) When you receive truth in love, like I described above, it becomes easier to give it. When you give truth like that it becomes easier to receive it. Me, I been practicin'. Anyone else? ~Susan~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:06 PM Soph, regarding the folk argument, I'm inclined to agree with you. Music may be a part of a discussion thread, may even have started it, but its presence isn't necessary to the discussion in many cases and justifying BS with a musical reference or saying that its all about music is ludicrous. So what though? While we're picking the thing apart, ther are a few other arguments that might be equally addressed. "Too much BS"---Yeah, so what? There are always a lot of music threads going and plenty of ways to track them if that's a problem. "This is a folk and blues site."---Yeah, so what? It doesn't say its ONLY a folk and blues site. We can't even define the terms anyway. We were all brought here by the music, but many have found other things to talk about. If you can get Max to change the title to ONLY, I'll be happy to shut up. "Some people are just in love with their own words."---Yeah, so what? Some people post a lot, some don't. I can't help but notice that generally everyone gets a say if they want it. I get ignored a lot too. So what? Is someone's thoughts more worthwhile because they post less or more? "The BS is running people off."---I can never understand this one. As long as the BS is confined to the BS thread, so what? If you don't want to BS, don't open the thread. A lot of new folks have liked the BS and has made them feel comfortable here. I wonder how many have been run-off by the constant bickering and the attacks by some of the "We HATE BS" contingent? If you hate BS, don't get involved. But I'll tell you this...I've been ignored a lot more in the music threads than in the BS. But again, so what? There are others, but those just kind of hit me at the moment. This isn't an attack on you Soph by any means. I have no idea how you feel on those other subjects and, as I said, I agree about the folk is everthing argument. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Paddy(1) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:28 PM TTCM What's the difference between a duck? Paddy(1) |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: kendall Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:29 PM Amos, when I read some of your posts, I wish I had majored in English instead of history. (compliment) |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:30 PM Well Mr. 'Spaw, if we grant you your rant, then really everything you have said, can be summarized with the analogy I went to a fight the other night and a hockey game broke out. We recognize that this Forum can never be what we (TTCM) want it to be or a return to what it once was---that it has a life of its own. We do enjoy giving that life a good kick in the ass every once in a while, to remind phoaks of what this place once represented. We respectfully submit to Max, that the catch logo --A Magazine Dedicated To Folk and Blues Music be dropped. The fact that this Forum was once A Magazine Dedicated to Folk and Blues Music now falls firmly into the category of rumor. TTCM --the other clique on Mudcat-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Lonesome EJ Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:41 PM Actually, TTCM, that was well stated. And now I must say I take you honestly when you say you aren't Garg- your response was too clear and logical to have come from him. I disagree with your point of view, but admire the succinct way in which you defended it in the above post. LEJ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Mar 00 - 08:11 PM I know what you mean Leej.......... But I gotta' tell you that your analogy, old, tired, chiched, ang hackneyed as it is, just don't work. It would imply that the music stopped when the BS began which is patently untrue. I'm not going to do a count, but you know as well as anyone that the thread count will favor music over BS and both can coexist here happily. You said the 'Cat isn't going back to the old days and you're right. And its not going to go exactly where you or I or anyone else wants it to go either. We'll adjust or we'll leave. Its sad that your adjustment involves constant carping about it though. It must be a real drag to walk around with that much baggage, but if it winds your watch......... I would suggest though that since you are aware that its not going back to the good ol' days and that you really can't affect it either way (I know you understand that...you don't like it, but you know its true)then you might restrain yourself from constantly taking on those who are just enjoying themselves and doing some learning in the process. Just take me on all the time instead. I represent much of what you detest, but you go after those good hearted souls who DO care about other's opinions...even yours. So just save the vitriol and the harangues and rants for me, I'll be happy to answer you anytime you post the crap. In the meantime, since you're such a music lover with such a vast following, take your clique and click on the "Create a New Thread" button and have at it. Or are you too addicted to the BS? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Ebbie Date: 30 Mar 00 - 08:47 PM And now it's my turn to apologize- not only for my mean-spirited aggression but for poisoning my own well. I've been miserable ever since. TTCM (The True Conscience of Mud Cat?? Oh, come on!), as long as you speak truth as you see it, I guess I can't complain- I do the same. It would be interesting to see who the person is behind your facade, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 30 Mar 00 - 08:57 PM It would be equalling interesting if s/he showed a little tolerance and nurturing towards the younger and newer members, some of whom may be beginners, as well. It is also to the credit of Mudcatters that we even engage with someone who claims a majority while remaining anonymous, unaccountable, and inaccesiblae through the very same private messges s/he tries to force the rest of us to use in lieu of the forum. If you want a strict and rigid system, perhaps you should take your so-called clique and start your own. Max has said time and again what we do here is alright with him and that should be the end of it. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 30 Mar 00 - 09:29 PM One of it's legs is both the same, Paddy(1). But I digress. I feel the same as TTCM. He has hit the nail on the head! What a heap of crap! As for some of the rest of you. I refer you to TTCM's BS to constructive posts ratio. I am not _gargoyle, TTCM, I have never communicated with them, I can only do line breaks in HTLM, but I feel like they do on certain subjects. And it is true that were there no bullshitters, there would be no true consciences. For there would be no need for us. The people who complain about our existence are the ones who give birth to us. The way to make us go away is to stop filling this otherwise excellent forum with the mutual appreciation society, the highly overinflated egos that bear no relation to any actual talent possesed. In fact the ones who possess any real talent are quietly helping others in the background, not feeling the need to post inane 'songs' that they have written, while everybody gets lost in the deluge of thinking up even greater superlatives to describe their 'oneness' with the 'message'. Now, apropos compassion/honesty: Typical Mudcat subject matter at the minute, unfortunately. Anal-yze that! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Crowhugger Date: 30 Mar 00 - 09:30 PM If I'm stuck, I ask myself what decision will I look back upon with contentment five years from now? The answer is what I do/don't do... |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 30 Mar 00 - 10:14 PM Re: ''Another Conscience's Posting'' E X A C T L Y. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Mar 00 - 10:16 PM That'd be XLIX.......The rest of it ain't worth analyzing as its all been said before. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Gunnery Sergeant Raul B Jones Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:39 PM Relax, have a homebrew. It's not that important. The truth is, I'm hungry. And being compassionate toward my less spiritually inclined physical self, I'm gonna go get something to eat. I will probably hum a folk song while I chew. See? It's two sides of the same coin. When you journal writing pseudo intellectuals are done beating each other up, Come on over for ribs and horseshoes. Guitar players welcome |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:50 PM Right on, Sarge...I'm fer that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jeri Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:28 AM Beanster, do you mean Grover's Mill? "Good morning ladies and gentlemen. We are ecstatic to announce that Mudcat is now being operated by NMPA, otherwise known as the "Nasty Martian Political Agency." We are finished screwing around with your little database, and have decided to go straight for your creative impulses. We will endeavor to subtly control your minds until you do nothing but discuss information without emotion. We will decimate any feeling of community fostered by the sharing of feelings and opinions not related to actual facts. We have appointed individuals to ensure this plan is implemented. Currently, they may be identified by the appearance of their posts. The Martian to English translator invariably converts the writing to odd fonts and font sizes, but we're working to overcome this. It should be noted that if they fail to supress non-factual discussion, they have been directed to disrupt communication by focusing attention on themselves. Er...whoops - wrong aliens...
We are Jeri |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: MMario Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:36 AM Jeri, that's hysterical.
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jeri Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:49 AM Re the actual subject of this thread - it's not black an white/right or wrong. Each instance must be considered on its own. I don't believe in lying, but sometimes I don't say anything if the truth serves no purpose, or if it will make things worse. You have to decide if you're simply getting something off your chest, or whether the other person needs/wants to know. You also have to consider whether you don't want to tell the truth because it's uncomfortable for you. Sometimes trust involves a willingness to be uncomfortable at times. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:52 AM TTCM-- Re: "The way to make us go away is..." Wherever did you get the idea anyone wants you to go away???? There may be one or two, but look how many of us are right here talking with you! Do you really think mere ego wold be enough to keep us engaged in communication with you? Have you considered other possible motives that may even be (I say with doubt you will hear me)-- POSITIVE?!?!? Maybe the problem is that so many DID go away, and you miss them so bad it hurts. I'm sorry they went away! I wish they would come back! They can start all the threads they like and say whatever is on their minds! It isn't fair to blame people HERE for what others who left WON"T do. Are you their conscience too??? Have you asked them to come back and resume their rightful place here? Have you gotten close enough to them so they might listen and take heart, or courage, or humility, or whatever they lacked sufficiently to stay? Maybe they threw out the baby with the bathwater, while disagreeing on which was which. Why don't you go sign them all back up. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Amos Date: 31 Mar 00 - 10:08 AM SUFFERING
I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction. Yet true happiness comes from a sense of peace and contentment, which in turn must be achieved through the cultivation of altruism, of love and compassion, and elimination of ignorance, selfishness, and greed. Dalai Lama, 1989 Nobel Prize Speech
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jeri Date: 31 Mar 00 - 10:25 AM Whoops. We apologize. We meant to post our message in the April 1 thread. We need more coffee...now who's turn is it to make some? Jeri, you get the gounds and Jeri can pour the water and... |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jeri Date: 31 Mar 00 - 10:28 AM Whoops. We apologize. We meant to post our message in the April 1 thread. We need more coffee...now who's turn is it to make some? Jeri, you get the gounds and Jeri can pour the water and... Jeri Le clicque, c'est chique |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Mar 00 - 10:38 AM Jeri, you are a true gem. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Rick Fielding Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:12 AM I tried to be a clique but I couldn't afford my own membership dues. You can find me "Up on Clipple Clique". Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Neil Lowe Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:13 AM All existence is Suffering. The cause of Suffering is Desire. To eliminate Suffering, eliminate Desire. --basic tenets of Buddhism |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:22 AM (a) As another so aptly mentioned previously in this thread, ''imitation is the sincerest form of flattery''. (b) We have no quarrel with you Jeri. But we have heard your fiddle playing. If you would like our critique of your talents, then continue to engage us in the manner you've chosen. TTCM --the other clique on Mudcat-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:32 AM Oh what a wonderful honest posting. Don't you just love it when someone takes an anonymous dig at a friend. You want honesty TTCM - You're a gutless shithead. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Ebbie Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:02 PM Your mission is laudable, Jeri, et al. But how will we know you when we see you? How many are you? Do you dress differently? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:10 PM So you're "Up the clique without a paddle" eh Rick;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Little Neophyte Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:15 PM Bert, from what I hear Rick uses his banjo as a paddle. LN |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:23 PM How does that saying go? "Pas d'elle yieux Rhone que nous" |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:24 PM For the clique to end all cliques,CLIQUE HERE!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jeri Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:44 PM Ebbie, you will know members of my clique because they all look and dress just like me. They also agree with everything I say - it's a requirement. Bert, regardless of TTCM's true identity, it's a very sad, small person who can't deal with the world when it doesn't operate according to their standards. Trust me, I find it damned near impossible to feel insulted or even angry at the words of an anonymous, desperate ("me, me, me - listen to ME. I can't think of anything to say about what you actually wrote, so I'm going to try to piss you off by talking nasty about your fiddle playing!") individual. Li'l Neo - banjos don't float, do they? Hmmm... TTCM, I have consulted with the select members of my clique, and they have informed me that: a) We don't give the nether regions of a bald-tailed rodent what you think of our playing, because we don't have delusions of adequacy. We also have no respect for cowards who hide behind a cloak of anonymity to harrass people in order to attempt to assert their will.. b) We find it amusing that you have chosed to reply with the offer of a personal critique, however, we are gratified to have provoked a response. We feel special. We suspect that your own concience has given up and gone out for a beer. c) I suggest you reply by starting a separate thread. Otherwise, another concience may intervene and point out that our combined cliques are raising the BS level to a new high. Please forgive us for assuming some of the glory, as your clique is responsible for most of it. Jeri, (Our clique has more fonts than yours - nyah, nyah) Now, go exert negative pressure on an avian ovum. I think it's a good time to shut up, because I'm only giving attention to someone who craves it. If anyone feels the need to defend me, you needn't - not unless you feel TTCM needs more attention. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:52 PM ...they all look and dress just like me... Aw Jeri, and I thought "I" was one of your clique? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Little Neophyte Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:59 PM Ernie, I tried to use the translate blue clicky, but it did not work. My grade 10 French teacher politely suggested I drop the course and take another credit in something else. So how does that saying go in English? Jeri, I figure if Rick roped his banjo to the boat it would be safe and he would have something to play at night around the campfire. Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: MMario Date: 31 Mar 00 - 01:01 PM bert..."i" is part of her cl"i"que. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: MK Date: 31 Mar 00 - 01:36 PM I've been following this thread and really trying to steer clear of ALL of it. But, Jeri, by going to the lengths that you have, you have clearly played right into TTCM's hands. Do you not see that? Nothing, is accomplished by your posts pertaining to he/she/it, and only adds more fuel to their ''collective fire'' at least the way I see it anyway. If you all feel so strongly towards this TTCM, and since he/she/it has decided to invoke membership, why not send private flames or messages of condolensces, etc...directly to the entity? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Rick Fielding Date: 31 Mar 00 - 01:48 PM Perhaps this isn't the thread to talk about things other than "compassion, honesty, cliques, or my envy at folks like Jeri who can colour up postings with the push of a button" but since she's here....Jeri, I'll be making my professional fiddle debut (thanks to your encouragement..AND YOUR FIDDLE(!!) three days after I get back from Connecticut. Not being anyone's fool, I've hired super Maritime fiddler Jamie Snyder to be my back-up guy, and since I'm paying him well (and we're old friends) he promises not to laugh when I join him in duets of: "Soldier's Joy, Bonaparte's Retreat, Old Plank Road, House of David Blues, and two original pieces...one entitled "Jeri's Waltz. I shall report on the ramifications. Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 31 Mar 00 - 01:49 PM Little Neo, you have to say it out loud, or better yet get someone else to say it. Michael K, naw we're just having fun with she/he/it (say that quickly and it becomes sheeeit). Bert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:06 PM There comes a time, Michael K. when the majority does need to be vocal about things. Goodonya, Jeri! Congrats, Rick! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: MK Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:10 PM I've never known you not to be vocal about anything on this forum Kat. *BG* But majority? Hmmmm.....have to think on that one for a spell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:22 PM Well, I wasn't referring to m'self. *BG* As to majority...I guess I mean the majority of those who are being attacked, both in general and singley, by one who hides behind anonymity. It is difficult to respect anyone who doesn't have the guts to own up to who they are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jeri Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:30 PM Rick, sorry I'll miss it! You can always tape it and send it to Max. (You gots da music to that waltz someplace?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:31 PM Kat,...and here we thought becoming an actual member would make you happy?... Tsk tsk tsk...there's just no pleasing some people.
B.T.W....Jeri, since you have confessed to having no delusions of adequacy there is no further action required on our part. It is only those with over-blown egos, and miniscule talent (the word talent being utilized very loosely) that incurr our wrath. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,Miss Emily Fishlap Weezleburn Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:16 PM You kids play nice, or get out of the sandbox. Use honesty or compassion or both, just make sure nobody gets hurt. I brought my bongos, who wants to jam? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:34 PM Jeri. As TTCM has pointed out, we are not really getting at you, so I wonder why you are attracting response. As I have said (it seems this forum thrives on repetition), there are those who are not attracting our attention because they are more concerned with things musical and helping others. The Song database here is one thing, but the actual databases inside some of the contributors heads make this place really special. It is good for everyone when these sources are utilized. They are dropping away, though. There have been several usages of the phrases 'Them and Us'; "are you with us or against us?" and the likes bandied around this forum. Musicians, serious talented musicians with a world of knowledge, have left this place because of such clique-ness. The music world is relatively small, and people talk. And people have. Why on God's earth would anyone of any real musical value want to join up, let alone under his/her own name, only to be 'welcomed', and spammed with nonsensical shite by people whose biggest failing in life is this fatal need to accept, and be accepted. That is what people of little inner worth do. And unfortunately, as the LafKat has said the majority has spoken. All I can say is SHAME. Really want to know who I am? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: The Beanster Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:02 PM There are some people who make anonymous crank phone calls and some people who make anonymous nasty posts. These are the acts of either children or cowards. Harpgirl stated her opinion and didn't hide behind her mother's skirt, like the responsible, mature person she obviously is, no matter if one agrees with her or not. What I find amusing about the anonymous posts is the constant use of "we" and its variations by the, obviously, solitary writer of such posts. This arrogant assumption of speaking for the majority without of course, consulting anyone at all is either the product of extreme narcissism or perhaps, delusion. Either way, as far as I'm concerned, it's an interesting thing to observe in action. But I just can't resist--TTCM, if you are the silent majority, why are you not silent? On a more neighborly note, Amos, regarding your post (far, far above), I think if you tell your spouse you have had a "fling" after it is over and done with, you are merely attempting to alleviate your own guilt by "confessing" and in the process, hurting your spouse once again. The fling is being selfish one time. To tell your spouse about the fling is being selfish two times. So I do not think that honesty is always the best policy. Of course, the remedy here is, don't cheat in the first place. Just my opinion. ...stepping down off my pedestal now... |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Lonesome EJ Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:03 PM Really? That's funny, because in general I like music that has some guts, a quality that you seem to be notably lacking in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:05 PM What the hell is a beanster anyway? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:02 AM What makes you think I have no guts Lej? What difference does it make if my name is Fred Boggs, or Joe Soap or Paul Brady, or Mark Knopfler? Or anyone else for that matter? What makes you think, given the present state of things here, that I actually want to tell you who I am? Where do you get off in your arrogance? People who know me, know me. I don't come here to laud or be lauded. My world does not center around the things that your's does, Lej, and to be honest, 'Lonesome EJ' gives me no more idea as to your identity as 'Another conscience....' would do as to mine. If not, why not be like Rick Fielding or Mark Cohen (names only used as examples), and not have any cards left not shown. You do what you want, of course. That is also your right. Politeness does not come with membership, and a 'proper' handle. There is nothing any more cowardly about my contributions because I dont sign as 'Filbert Bogsworthy' or something, but rather as 'Another...'. This is cyberspace Lej. Wake up! I'm not your next door neighbor. Our lives may never entwine. It's not real.Like I mean during those healing threads, I was waiting for some virtual doorbell to ring while some virtual delivery boy brought a virtual pizza. And a gluten-free one at that! All very good case history material for sociologists and shrinks, but as a friend of mine told me at Christmas: "It's a nice wee place, but there's a crowd of wasters hanging around the door." All I want is for this place to stop becoming the Soap opera that it has been in danger of turning into. We are many, I'm sorry to burst your little cyber bubble, but I know for a fact that I am not _gargoyle, TTCM, or others who I do recognize. That is another example of sand head-burying in this place. I don't think you understand the amount of dissatisfaction there is among the WIDER musical community who frequent this place from time to time. I have guts Lej. I have done what I have done over a long number of years. And I have succeeded. And I don't think that I have to look to you for acceptance here. So don't judge me. You don't have that right. My criticism, however, about how the state this forum finds itself from time to time, is a valid one, and is just as valid had a member with a 'proper handle' made it. It is a sad fact about the world today that when someone stands up and says "I protest", he/she is made out to be worse than a criminal. Some of you guys are still lost in a McCarthy timewarp. There'll be more book burning yet! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Lonesome EJ Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:50 AM The facts are,"another", that whoever and whatever I am outside this forum, I have contibuted and commented as honestly as I know how among the people who participate in these conversations. Through these comments, most have come to know who I am, and what I believe in. And I stand on those beliefs whether you or anyone else thinks they are right or wrong, and what's more will defend them if they are challenged. I am happy to argue any specific point you may disagree with me on. If you have read any of my posts I believe that you will see that I attempt to treat others here with RESPECT, and with concern and humor. I have rarely resorted to name-calling, which seems to be the stock-in-trade of the "conscience clique." As for the other "clique" of regular contributors- I know of no other in-group that welcomes new people as readily,or is as helpful to those seeking information. I also know of none of them that adopt a holier-than-thou, "You're-probably-already-one-of-my-fans" attitude like the one you flaunted above. It's been said at least a thousand times : If you don't like the bullshit IGNORE IT. But don't come riding in with your shotgun and your "anonymous" disguise taking pot-shots at people who have posted their thoughts, feelings, names, and photographs for the sake of honest communication. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:28 AM There you go judging again Lej. I don't have this "You're-probably..." anything attitude. It is true that perhaps you may own something that I have recorded, then again, perhaps you don't. And again I say I have the right to remain behind my handle. Am I to be criticized because you cannot see my photograph over at bbc's. Is there a 'because you're not a member, you're not entitled to voice your opinion' policy among some members. And if there is, who gave you that right. Because I haven't 'joined' (I will remind you that I have been having excellent conversations on this forum since before you arrived),it is no less honest and from my heart as I sure yours is. We have discussed things on the same thread before; you didn't know who I was then, why should you be so interested now? Honesty and compassion, eh? The truth hurts sometimes, but without it, we find ourselves in that state which is the direct opposite of paranoia. That of the belief that everything is fine. Which is, of course, just as dangerous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Apr 00 - 11:34 AM Jeezus H! I've been "named" as someone who shows all their cards! (so who the hell is Mark Cohen?) Certainly not ALL. I have been pretty up front about my lack of formal education, annoyance at people who won't get in tune, hard-line approach to those who expect something from folk music without a substantial "investment", and how my discovery of Mudcat a year and a half ago, was a major positive in my life. The only "philosopher" who's had any major impact on my everyday behaviour has been Quentin Crisp, who advocated that folks be as open with strangers as with friends.("They can't ever blackmail you then") he said, and that strikes me a s true..and desirable. I've gotten into trouble at times by being one of the "not just music" people, and again by asking to be removed from the private lists of two "opposing groups". Simply, I ain't on the "side of ANY group". Just not a "group" kind of guy. 'Cause that implies that you should support them blindly out of loyalty even when one or some of them act like dorks. Sorry, I'd rather have the freedom to call a "dork" a "dork". Been one myself many a time, so I know how easy it is to qualify. Of course I always sign my name..I've never advocated bombing "BSers" or "traddies" back to the stone age. I just can't get angry enough at a "hobby pursuit" to lose sleep over it. I think quite a few do though, and I think that's fascinating. Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 01 Apr 00 - 11:41 AM Rick, Mark Cohen is a Mudcatter pediatrician who lives in Hawaii. Great person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:00 PM ...so why don't you go visit him Kat?...We'll raise the necessary funds in the Mudcat auction, and send you on your way... The kicker is though, that you can't touch a computer while in Hawaii and you have to stay a minimum of 3 months. Guess this would preclude your visit huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:09 PM My Dearest Rick Apologies to you and Mark for any embarassment caused, as there was no intention to do so. The 'cards' I spoke of referred only to the fact that you use your real name. That is fair enough, is your choice, and your right. That, doesn't inherently align you to 'one side or the other', it just merely indicates a willingness to reveal your identity. I don't expect you to get embroiled in this debate, knowing as I do your preference to discuss more appropriate subject matter. That is fine and honourable. It is all very well to say ignore the threads that offend you, but unfortunately it happens not only in the BS threads. The manicness all this BS generates spreads into music related threads, and corrupts them. It therefore is impossible to ignore all BS related content, for it rears it's ugly head in the serious stuff. It's not just the BS; they infect the whole place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:15 PM So... God hates children now? when the spirit of a child comes over to play you... bludgeon it!! Oh, OK!! That's fine, I get it now! Unless they pay their full cover charge and are unable to make the slightest noise? "Children!!!! How many TIMES do I have to TELL you not to BREATHE in public!!! "For shame!!!!!"
Consciences, believe me-- if this is how YOU grew up, I am so sorry. It should never be so. ~Prays~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:15 PM ...agreed....and all collective ''Consciences'' are working on a vaccine, even as we speak. We'll be testing it shortly on Katlaughing and a few others to see if in fact they will actually turn into possims. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:22 PM There you go yet again Praise bringing God into the equation. You personify the old catch phrase made famous by Cheech and Chong years ago ''I used to be all messed up on drugs, but since I got religion, now I'm all messed up on the Lord''. One placebo replacing another, for a lack of emotional grounding in your life. You want to preach? Fine. Do it at your Church or in your garage, or in the shower. This is a multi-denominational Forum, and alot of us resent the God factor being brought into any discussion on this Forum. It is wholly irrelevant to Mudcat. On this point, MANY here are in total agreement, regardless of what they think of any of our other commentaries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:24 PM (loading syringe and swabbing Praise's arm...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:27 PM It would appear from the first trials that the vaccine is more effective if administered into the buttocks. .....sorry Praise...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:27 PM TTCM, Howling a bit in rage now are you? To you in particular I can say, Jesus is Lord, especially of you. You will see how He handles such. ~PRAYS~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:32 PM Most children I know have the intelligence to discern when the conversation gets over their heads. They normally go and play ball with their friends somewhere, and let the grown-ups alone. Any other behavior is blatant bad manners, and Praise, good God-fearing mother that she is, would not tolerate any such un-Christian actions in any child of hers. Good to see you agree, Praise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:34 PM The only howling we hear seems to be eminating from you Praise....oh and by the way, silver bullets and knives have no effect either...but hey, if you want to work up a rain, fire or dragon dance while you're at it...go for it. Those are at least somewhat musical. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:40 PM I think it is more likely that I would not take them where it has been advertised that the shite will be thrown FROM the stage, not AT it. But they would be encouraged to make their own response if they did find themselves in such a situation, guided of course by their True Conscience. And since most children-- especially you dear Consciences-- are capable of much more loving and kindness than adults, no doubt their response of love and compassion and play would put their very human Christian mother to shame. However I am not anyone's mother here-- and children will go where they will. Perhaps you had missed hearing your invitation to play??????? ~PRAYS!~
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:43 PM HIDE!! I feel a 'healing thread' coming on |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:44 PM TTCM, Oh that is not howling dear one. That is rebuking with calm power in Jesus Name. And a chuckle of praise or two as well. I only wish I could stay online long enough to close all the cracks you ooze in through, but that is not my place here. I'll be delighted to continue later, however, should you care to engage further. ~ P R A Y S ~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:46 PM We'd suggest shutting off your computer for a while Praise, (as you morph into a possim), then eating that coffee-flavored laxative on the table beside you. Then while on the lu, listen for HIS voice, and await further instructions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:47 PM There is no need for a healing thread when the Healer Himself is everywhere. Perhaps He will assist you directly, dear consciences... For that I shall pray this day. ~PRAYS PRAISE~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: The Beanster Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:51 PM Like two co-dependent mosquitos, Praise, shoo 'em away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Apr 00 - 12:59 PM Beanster-- I could, but not in my own name. However they would only be invited back. I rebuke in a humble effort in my own small and imperfect way to draw the persons under the shite back to themselves... But alas, they are as far from themselves as a pig from the moon. Could be a loooong trip back from where they are, and first they'll have to want to come. All just another day, another Christian. Praise the Lord! ~PRAISE PRAYS~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: The Beanster Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:07 PM Praise, I just mean, these are clearly miserable people whose only way to try to relieve their own pain (real or imagined) is to try to hurt others. You can't save this type although I know your intentions are well-placed. Don't let them rattle your cage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, The Thread Watcher Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:12 PM There you go with your virtual fly swat and associated playthings. Grow up Beano, get a life, get real friends, go and virtually help Praise virtually do something. But if your constructivity only stretches to looking into a sad little screen, making sad little comments, and getting those sad little butterflies everytime the thread refreshes, well then a good dose of of that very real syringe that TTCM speaks of may be what you life misses. Make sure it goes in good and deep, now. Oh!!, somebody close that virtual bathroom door. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: The Beanster Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:15 PM Hit a nerve, did I, Thread? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:23 PM And I'm not miserable, Beanster. Far from it, in fact. It is refreshing to see other musicians come to air their grieviences concerning the high bullshit content. I did say, some posts back, that We are many. However there are some selective memories around here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wildlone Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:32 PM The only shit around here is coming from the anal retentive minds of people like you ac |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 01:38 PM Now, now, Wildlone. Back to the jungle bars with you, and don't scrape your knees. You know how your mother and me worry so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: harpgirl Date: 01 Apr 00 - 02:17 PM ...This is for you Praise. I find your "in your face" Christian evangelism extremely offensive. You told me privately you wouldn't be near a computer this weekend. Was that a lie? I am disgusted by the fact that you are compulsively posting irrelevant chit chat everywhere along with the rest of the monopolizers. This is the issue I am pissed off about. I can't stand this self-righteous moralism anymore. You people are ruining this forum, in my opinion! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Environmentalist Date: 01 Apr 00 - 02:32 PM Way to go Harpgirl!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: MK Date: 01 Apr 00 - 02:36 PM Cool Harpgirl. Kind of gives a new meaning to the song:
All Along The Watchtower. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 02:48 PM She can't hear you Harpgirl. She is currently wallowing on all fours in the middle of the road, with excrement flying in all directions, while mentally reciting the Lord's prayer in Sanskrit, and waiting for Catspaw's truck to incarnate her into road-kill. The vaccine has proven effective, at least temporarily. |
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Subject: Please - No Sectarianism Here From: Joe Offer Date: 01 Apr 00 - 04:27 PM I guess I ought to say something here, even though I hate joining in on the nasty discussions. I guess by now many of you have figured out that I am a Christian, abeit one of the socialist, feminist, pro-choice, prolife, pacifist, liberal, dissident Catholic variety. I probably adhere to a couple dozen other seemingly-contradictory "isms" if I'd take the time to think of it, but this list is enough for now - basically, I think my own thoughts. Whatever the case, the main point is that I am a Christian, and my faith is a very important part of my life. Nonetheless, I believe very strongly that religious sectarianism - Christian, pagan, or whatever - is something that has no place here. It serves to distract and divide us. If you want to preach, do it somewhere else. If you want to share your own ideas with us, we're all here to listen. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Caitrin Date: 01 Apr 00 - 04:43 PM I'd have to agree, Joe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 04:56 PM Thanks for that, Joe. We've always considered you an honorable man as well as a few others (male and female) around here. Having said that, care to give us a hand dispencing the rest of the vaccines? We're still anxious to increase the marsupial population around here at the expense of the humanoid one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Lonesome EJ Date: 01 Apr 00 - 05:15 PM I am no fan of "in-your-face" Christianity, myself. But I find it far less offensive than the kind of personal attacks being launched by TTCM. Joe and Harpgirl...do you really want to play on his team? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 05:28 PM ANYTHINGwhich detracts from the lime light that the current power users here crave,we are overwhelmingnly in favor of. Face it, over coffee with fellow Mudcaters, emails between friends, personal messages on the forum back and forth, what are the more interesting and entertaining things to discuss? - the last 50 postings from Lafkat, Sorcha, Praise, MBO, etc.? - the last 50 postings attributed to us, and our collective? - the last 50 lyrics posted? This place is habitually boring, and needs a little bit of adrenaline and comic relief injected into it... Disagree? Okay make Shambles your host and MC...but have plenty of Wagner playing in the background, to compliment the tone he'll surely set. We're doing the rest of you a huge favor and you're too dim to appreciate it, save for an enlightened few. TTCM --doing what we can to increase the marsupial population-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: The Beanster Date: 01 Apr 00 - 05:49 PM As someone who is religion-free and is light-years away from being a Christian, I too, find moralistic bible-thumpers, koran-thumpers, etc., highly offensive (let alone, dangerous, at times). But I agree with EJ that making snide, contemptuous, hateful remarks just to satisfy an insatiable hunger for negative attention is far more offensive. Praise has never been in my face with her religious beliefs and I've appreciated that. I also agree that this is not the place for preaching but it seems to me that this is simply the way she thinks and therefore, defends herself; via the same method. Praise, perhaps has stepped on some toes with this (very few times). Certain others (again, very few) have made their vitriol their trademark. The one's (in my eyes, forgivable) outburst(s) are just not in the same league as the constant barrage of venom from the others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 05:55 PM Just...just..just bend over there a little, Beanster. Ahhhhhh...that's got it, and it didn't hurt at all did it? You should be feeling the morphing effects momentarily. (We do try and leave the authentic music threads and musical discussion threads alone, but as far as we're concerned, anything else is fair game.) TTCM --innoculating the disbelievers and increasing the marsupial population-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,flattop Date: 01 Apr 00 - 06:20 PM I have to agree with the Beaner. Praise preys but ever so gently. She can afford to be gentle, listening to great music which the Christians stole for their hymns while comtemplating the rest of us burning in hell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jon Freeman Date: 01 Apr 00 - 06:38 PM Flattop, 1. Does Praise prey or pray? Not sure is that was a spelling mistake or not. 2. How did we steal the music? Do you mean we copyrighted it or prevented others from using it or just that we made use of some good tunes that were around? Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bill in Alabama Date: 01 Apr 00 - 06:44 PM Joe-- A concise, rational, incisive statement. I agree totally, even though it seems that to do so places me on some kind of team in folks' eyes. It looks like the simple expression of one's sincere opinion is tantamount to the choosing of sides in this fracas. I am truly sorry that the Mudcat has come to this, but I reckon I'll keep hangin' around, 'cause, every once in a while, music does get mentioned. Bill Foster |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 06:54 PM Click here for continuous live camera feed. TTCM --proof the vaccine works!-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 01 Apr 00 - 06:57 PM Interesting that a few have chosen to personally attack Praise and her postings which are at least done honestly and without rancour, while letting stand without comment the vile, putrid personal attack on her just before Joe's posting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: The Beanster Date: 01 Apr 00 - 07:02 PM Thank you kat, for saying in one concise sentence, what it took me an entire paragraph to say! lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 07:11 PM Once the morphing effects hit Lafkat and Beanster yet again, they'd damn well better find a good hiding spot or the following fate awaits them. TTCM --making as much vaccine as it takes-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 07:20 PM True definition of ''vile'' and ''putrid'':A Lafkat with no discernable sense of humor, and whom, when out of the limelight, as temporarily as she can muster, lashes out in self righteous indignation. (Where is Garg when we really need him. He was so better equipped to deal with the likes of your specie.) Now be quiet and bend over. You're getting a quadruple dose with the longest needle we can find, for that last outburst. Should keep you in possim form for at least a few days. TTCM --The Vaccine? Don't worry. We'll make more!-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,flattop Date: 01 Apr 00 - 07:27 PM 'Comtemplating' was a typo, Jon. If we're not careful, Jon, this thread might degenerate into a musical discussion. I was referring to Christians singing 'Come let us use the grace Divine' to a Robbie Burns tune or singing 'God of all power and truth and grace' to Beethoven. It's enough to make you want to bite the piano. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 07:31 PM Well stated flattop. In fact if none of us are careful, this entire forum could degenerate into A Magazine Dedicated To Blues and Folk Music. Pretty scary huh? TTCM --who deeply respects marsupials-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Apr 00 - 07:42 PM Just got home after taking our Philosopher-Laureate Peter T. on his first ever pilgrimage to the Twelfth Fret Music store (no, I didn't coerce him into buying anything) and thought I'd see if this had gotten sillier. I rest my case about "joining either side". We humans sure can be hilarious at times. Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,flattop Date: 01 Apr 00 - 07:44 PM Instead of pissing about with these ridiculous fonts TTCM, you could be preparing to defend Robbie Burns and all the women he got pregnant. And you could learn a bit from Praise, like how to talk to people and how to listen. It's guys like you who give us heathens a bad name. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:00 PM Flattop: Two men died and went to heaven at the same time. One was a Robbie Burns scholar, the other was a Canadian hoser. They were met at the gates of heaven by St. Peter. St. Peter informed them that they were rather full that evening and really only had room for one of them. To determine which one would gain access, St. Peter devised a little game, where each of the respondents had to improvise a poem encompassing the word Timbuktu..(figuring the Robbie Burns scholar was a shoe-in.) The Robbie Burns scholar stepped forward and offered: We traveled to a distant land We journied there by Caravan The sky was opalescent blue We named this place, Timbuktu. The Canadian countered: Now me and Tim A'fishin' we went When we seen three girls In a tent Now they was three And we was two I bucked one And Tim bucked two. Does that about do it for yah, or should we prepare yet another syringe? TTC --if Jonas Salk were alive today, he'd be helping us refine our vaccine-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,flattop Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:19 PM I bow to your scholarship TTCM, and the font was much improved. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: katlaughing Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:22 PM This one is just for you, TTCM.**BG** |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,flattop Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:23 PM Did we lose the Christians? They had a lull like this in the wars over consubstantiation vs transsubstantiation after the two Christian armies had killed about 100,000 of their fellow Christians and divided the Holy Roman Empire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:33 PM We were amused, but we don't wear glasses, and were actually holding the mirror facing you...and it does very closely resemble your top photo on the resource page. Suggestion : More time spent researching links like the one above, means less time here. Got to like that! You know, if it was YOU instead of JFK, witnesses would have been heard saying: ''Christ. There must have been 100s of shots, Get yer own grassy knowl! We were here first! TTCM --working on a longer lasting vaccine for Lafkat-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:34 PM I see Lafkat is morphing as we speak! Shall we give our honored guest one more jab, for luck? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:45 PM Absolutely, and stuff a few Jimmy Dean's Pure Pork sausages, in the other orifices while yer at it. TTCM --who does not want the Lafkat to go hungry-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,flattop Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:46 PM Attention deficits TTCM? I give you credit for reusing a Newfie joke and you immediately slip back into a stupid font. Are you Canadian too? Kat is too kind. She should skip the BeeGees. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:52 PM (..whistles...)AC, please prepare a syringe for Flattop....but add 40% more to it, as he is a Canuck. TTCM |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 01 Apr 00 - 09:02 PM Just heard that fine Robin Williams song this evening. Stirring stuff! Now... just a little bit...., there! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 01 Apr 00 - 09:07 PM
Seems AC got a bit carried away on the dosage. Awwwww. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Jon Freeman Date: 01 Apr 00 - 10:16 PM Flattop, this Christian is still here :-) Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,flattop Date: 01 Apr 00 - 11:24 PM And you're using an honest and compassionate font Jon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Apr 00 - 11:28 PM Hi everybody, This Christian left the forum this afternoon for sheduled music practice, where the music for tonight's all-acoustic weekly worship service was planned and practiced. I have a new amp and believe me it was more relaxing that rebuking pretenders to the name of conscience! I did mange to pray frequently during all of that practice time, for the Counterfiet Consciences. (I think they need a lot more prayer than I can pray, so I hope some of you will join in.) Then this Christian went to PLAY for the service and stayed to hang out with visiting musicians for their set, since they had come to do a concert in another part of our building for a group using the place for their event. We had a great time... they were wonderful musicians, and turned out also to be....CHRISTIANS! Then I had a lovely family dinner and came home to a number of nice, encouraging personal messages. I think that since the Counterfiet Conscience Clan (CCC) has SO enjoyed mischaracterizing me-- as they should, not knowing me and having had little exposure to real people living a real faith--I'll just start writing all-Christian songs from now on and posting them right here at the Mudcat. I think I'll start a hymn of the day thread and we can all post away, more and more opportunities to talk about Jesus. And a Hymn Challenge thread.... And a Prayer of the Day thread... And a Link to Christian Acoustic Music of the Day thread... Or just keep doing what I do, which (and pardon ME), includes loving you, including the unrepentant. So thank you, Counterfeit Conscience Clan, for being such excellent April Fools today. You gave me more legitimate opportunities to talk about Jesus than I have had since joining the Mudcat. I hope you'll keep it up-- I could talk about HIM all day long!!!!
~Susan~
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: harpgirl Date: 02 Apr 00 - 12:00 AM ...jesus christ! this is the most offensive crap I have ever seen on the forum...you can have it Susan, I'm outta here... |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: TTCM (retired) Date: 02 Apr 00 - 12:04 AM Harpgirl, it was still technically April Fools day when she wrote it. Given what Mr. Offer said, and many others who share your feelings, we think it is hype and was directed at us and to trigger a strong reaction. Keep your powder dry for the moment Harpgirl. You're valued, and your common sense and sanity are needed and respected around here. TTCM --in a more rational moment-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 02 Apr 00 - 12:12 AM Praise. Your displays of christianity are distinctly un-christian. I would ask you, on this your Sabbath, to quietly contemplate the parable of the Pharasee at the altar, and quit trying to shove your religion down other people's throats. Your kind have been the cause of 90% of the wars in the 'christian' era. Were Christ to be alive today, you would crucify him as you did before. Now could you and your zealot religious rantings please FUCK OFF and spare us your biased beliefs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Caitrin Date: 02 Apr 00 - 12:29 AM Uhm...just for the record...I don't believe Susan's ever told anyone that he or she was going to hell. She might have stepped on a few toes, but I don't think she's really attempted to force her religion down anyone's throat. At any rate, I think everyone's gotten a rather overly defensive now. It might be best to cool off and let the situation defuse a little bit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 02 Apr 00 - 12:38 AM I have sent the messenger with the cleft stick this very hour. Apologies to all the good people in this noble forum for my reflex and hawkish remarks. I meant to offend none but those who would convert us. Pax vobiscum |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: ceitagh Date: 02 Apr 00 - 01:20 AM A quick question....you can PM me with a reply if you have one....is there any way threads that degenerate like this can be posthumously marked, as it is? 'cause I've been gone a coupla days and was looking forward to a typical thotful 'cat discussion and got acres of flamebait instead. I don't want to have to read this, and I don't want to squelch it either...but could a thread that has turned into this be marked 'TTCM' or 'PS' (Possum Shit) or somethin' so I don't have to spend anymore time wadin' thru this crap? I've read enough, I've said my say (on the Pustule thread, since it was shortest) and I don't want to see this again. Is there some way I could set my filter to disregard threads I don't want to see anymore? Ceit (nobodies conscience but my own, thanx muchly!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Iodine Date: 02 Apr 00 - 01:34 AM i think this thread is offically dead. no real answer |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, The Thread Watcher Date: 02 Apr 00 - 01:41 AM It is already marked ceitagh, and we've already been through this before. Try devising a keyword structure with the filter on "things that upset me". However in the abscence of utopia, try not inhaling, if you get my drift. Or go and strike up an interesting discussion somewhere. You know, something of interest!! Maybe a sewing bee or something. That could be a novel experience through the PMs, don't you think? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: The Beanster Date: 02 Apr 00 - 01:57 AM Ceit, That's an interesting suggestion, there. I wish it could be done. There are gizmos that allow you to put chatroom trashers on "ignore" so maybe?? 65 or so posts from one person in the space of roughly two days... If a telephone were used instead, it would be a crime--harassment. Yet here, sadly, it continues. I guess for now, we'll have to use our own methods to ignore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 02 Apr 00 - 03:07 AM Oh Edgar? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST,flattop Date: 02 Apr 00 - 10:23 AM Praise, You should get lots of support for musical threads on Hymns and Christian Acoustic Music, both musical topics with worldwide interest. I believe that Christian music is one of the higher selling categories these days. Clearly labeled threads should trouble no one who doesn't want to read them. And your new amp. What kind of new amp did you get? The Twelfth Fret, the music store in Toronto that Rick and Peter just visited, carries Line 6 products. Line 6 amps and the Line 6 Pod emulate many different amp sounds. If you got a Pod and TTCM was talking out of turn in your church, you could switch to a Marshall stack sound and rattle his ears with a drugged out Jimmy Hendricks riff. Or you could blast him back a couple of pews and sit him on his rectum with the sounds of a Peavey dual rectifier. Wouldn't that be grand? |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: catspaw49 Date: 02 Apr 00 - 11:01 AM Well, I knew this was going to go on, but after returning from a 3-D hiatus, I'm amazed...... DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS SHIT FOLKS!!! Be comfortable enough in who you are and have enough security in your own self that you don't take this stuff to heart ferchrissakes. Let "IT" alone and all the "ITS" can go play with themselves, they probably do anyway.
DO NOT ACKNOWLWDGE "ITS" EXISTENCE AT ALL, PEOPLE!!!!>br> MAKE NO REFERENCES TO "IT" AND DON'T RESPOND EITHER!!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Bert Date: 02 Apr 00 - 08:35 PM Aw Spaw, I was having such fun with 'he of the little font'. I've been thinking of doing a profile of him so that everyone can find out who he is. The sorry sod is fairly easy to pin down by reading his postings. He's a blues singer. (That eliminates some 70-80% of us) He's heard Jeri play. So he's probably near the east coast. (there goes another 60% of the remainder) He doesn't wan't to be barred from Annap's, so he's probably been there (We're down to a handful now) He thinks he's quite a good performer (Gawd, that eliminates me for sure) He doesn't like songwriters (So he probably doesn't write anything of his own) He takes anonymous digs at his 'friends'. (So he probably takes sly digs under his real name as well, you know the sort of stuff, just borderline and sneaky, nothing that you can really pin down) He looks down on people he considers to be inferior performers. (just about everyone, so he would sooner 'entertain' at a gathering, rather than starting a song circle. He's arrogant. (so his performances come across as rather aloof and lacking in warmth and communication) Got him yet everyone. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: JedMarum Date: 03 Apr 00 - 01:21 AM Well, I just spent much too much time reading through this thread! I saw it start just before I went out of town for a few days, was tempted to comment on it then (before all the nasty sh*t started) but it's not the kind of thread I usually respond to, and I didn't have much to contribute. ... when I got back in town, I saw from comments among other threads that a furious row had occurred somewhere at Mudcat but I did know where, (I didn't look here right away). I poked around for a couple of days, looking at threads of interest, answering a few, reading a few, then I looked in on this one again. I was floored! Y'all must be joking, right? All this nastiness is because someone doesn't like it when someone else asks a non-music question? Is this for real? WHO CARES? IF YA DON"T LIKE THE THREAD: DON"T ANSWER IT!!! I have spent lots of time here, and have run into very little that angers me ... you can spend hours each day learning, and TEACHING issues related to music - you'll never have to worry about stuff that doesn't interest you. To make such a stink over what someone else is talking about is rediculous. It is to be, as Monty Python might put it; a wiper of other people's noses! |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Lonesome EJ Date: 03 Apr 00 - 01:42 AM Jed, you are absolutely on the money. But I don't think the members (if there really are more than one)of the Mudkat Konscience Klan are going to listen to any reasonably stated arguments. The Klan is obviously getting a large kick out of causing the disruption, and under the avowed purpose of saving the site for music, are using their tactics to attack anyone they don't like, plain and simple. I appreciate the views of those like Joe, Harpgirl, and Art Thieme who have made heartfelt pleas or reasoned arguments that the Forum is drifting too far into non-music topics. But the guys in sheets and hoods get no respect from me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST, Another conscience.... Date: 03 Apr 00 - 03:24 AM Oh, Lej., just admit it. The BS and and this peculiar ICQ type behavior is sucking the life out of this place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: JedMarum Date: 03 Apr 00 - 07:43 AM I appreciate Joe, Harpgirl and Art's comments too ... I don't have any passion over the issue myself, but I recognize theirs ... as for BS I rarely notice, and ICQ? I don't participate; I still find the place quite useful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: Iodine Date: 03 Apr 00 - 05:36 PM Bravo Jed |
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Subject: RE: BS: compassion or honesty From: GUEST Date: 03 Apr 00 - 10:09 PM AC, you're full of it!. 16 BS threads - 88 music threads is sucking the life out of it. You must not have much of a bloody life. Get a grip you silly sod and back off of the whining. Bert. |
