Breathing During Instrumental Playing

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 12:41 PM

When I'm playing piano I stop breathing for long periods of time. Perhaps if pretended that 'inhale' and 'exhale' were in the lyrics...

When I'm playing recorder I skip pick-up notes and use the time to inhale.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 04:46 PM

fogie, here's trumpet breathing technique - enjoy!

nick nack no

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: fogie
Date: 09 May 02 - 06:31 AM

Ive nearly collapsed trying to breath in the following circumstances- after buying a new 2 1/2 melodeon with a smaller bellows than my previous 3 row learning french style playing when youre playing back to front and your brain thinks you should be pushin when youre pulling soprano sax when youre used to tenor. my partner plays oboe and says you have to concentrate on breathing out more than in I saw kenny G keep a note going for about 10 mins using circular breathing, and presume its easier for high notes with a small airway in the mouthpiece. Ive tried to do it, but find my cheeks dont seem to hold enough air. Should I have plastic extensions? I was told that James Galway didnt use c.b. but multi-tracked the playing so it sounded as if he was playing continuously

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mike Dowding
Date: 08 May 02 - 04:18 PM

Have you ever tried singing whilst playing a 3 row melodion in ADG.I have great difficulty in concentrating, but there are many fine melodian players who can do this.John Kirkpatrick is a v. fine example altho' his instrument is chromatic and his L/Hand plays the same note whether the bellows are going "In or Out".My "bar-steward" instrument plays a different notes on ALL L & R buttons with bellows going in to when they move out!! I try and play 2 bars with the bellows in one direction and the following 2 in the opposite way and to this end I have to cross rows...this reduces the necessity for me to change bellows direction on poss. every note...if I were playing a scale.....which would cause me to breathe in and out rapidly...almost "pant" and would really mess up my breathing for singing....try singing whilst inhaling!!

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: C-flat
Date: 08 May 02 - 10:48 AM

I have a habit of breathing heavily through my nose (so I'm told) when playing a difficult piece on guitar and need to move away from my microphone as it sounds as though I'm about to expire! A friend of mine, who I play in a band with, is a superb electric guitarist but when he takes a solo has a habit of "scat" singing along with it. It's entirely involuntary and, like my snorting, he's completely unaware that he's doing it, unfortunately it's not very tuneful and I have, on occassion, had to give him a nudge!

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 May 02 - 10:29 AM

when i was learning to play melodeon, i always found myself breathing in and out with the push & pull of the instrument and would become breathless - sometimes verging on hyperventilation

i think it was something to do with subconciously trying to sing the tunes

getting the hang of using the air button alleviated this problem

from speaaking with other squeezebox players, some report that it happened to them while learning, but others who've been playing for years say that they still do it

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 08:21 PM

That brings the bill back up to $50 Alison.

Tursacan has 2 CDs in fact.

They're not, however, distributed by a multinational record company. Indeed, our operation is quite the reverse.

And now we touch on the internet and music distribution.

Nowadays having a CD is only part of the package. And I must confess the PR, the marketing, the merchandising, the promotion, have very little appeal for me.

For me it all gets back live to performance and quality music and quality instruments and sounds. A CD or an MPEG of a performance is like a photograph of a painting.

There is nothing that can beat all that loud breathing and face scrunching, and those magic moments where the piece of music takes on a life of its own.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: alison
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 05:15 AM

Go on Mark... tell them you have a CD out...... 'cos I don't think many Americans will make the trip to the "loaded dog" *grin*

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Margo
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 04:31 PM

Bonnie, I have the same problem, but what happens is that I inhale suddenly and deeply, usually causing a snort or some other gutteral sound. I hope that after a piece is mastered to where I'm not concentrating so much as I am just playing, the problem will abate. Snortingly, Margo

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Lena
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 11:59 PM

Thanks for the gig ad,Mark. It DOES come with practice,do you think that poor lung squeezers are born with it?! Of course I wish I was.far from it.It's bloody boring to learn the discipline of breathing when you have THAT comma on the score,while you're probably concentrated on what you're doing.We usually decide it before.In big wind bands(a hurra for my town band still marching somewhen in Florence)we had write down our breathe marks according to eachother .And unfortunately it sounds terrible in folk music because those reels are not exactly slow nor wavy like classic music(much easier breathing job I think...).I remember the score of the solo clarinet pieca no.1,where he said clearly"Breathe is to be taken only when marked"...and the sadist would hold your breathe for a bloody long time!!! Circular breathing is not that common among woodwinds & co.I saw it just a couple of times.Apart from didj playing.Instruments like cello are tough for breathing as well.You can hear cellists breathing in solo pieces if you listen carefully. It's a matter of disciplining your natural functions to your needs.Or they'll chop off your playing! after all,you have to learn it for singing.Imagine you're singing with the others,your instrument being your voice,your breathing being part of your phrasing

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 10:56 PM

I think Alison is refering to my "one man band" style of playing.

I am not a master. But then again "Master" is not a title most people bestow upon themselves.

In addition, being a didge master is lifelong quest. There is more to didge than meets the ear/eye.

Alan Dargin was a mentor of mine for a weekend. He said white fellas who play didge must do a good job of it. That means getting to know how to play but also the other aspects of didge. This takes a long time. I am not a master but I do a good job of playing. I use didge in a musical context only. I do not play it in context about which I no nothing or little. I do not play it to offend anyone and do not claim to be a master.

Drums, well, I'd like to be master. I play a "world percussion kit" (legs and arms in use). For now I will just practice, be creative, lateral, and learn to play percussion as musically as possible.

My (our) band is called "Tursacan". What do we play?

Austroceltic bushkalithumpian.

Sounds: Vocal Cello Ac Guit Bodhran Bombo Hi Hat Snare c Didge d Didge Conga Ashiko Tamborim Bass Gong 8" tom tom 20" Pang Cymbal 10" Splash cymbal Ocean Drum Rainmaker 13" timbale

Next performance: The Loaded Dog Folk Club. Annandale Neighbourhood Centre, 79 Johnston St. Annandale,sydney NSW. Sat August 29 2000.

With lots of face scrunching.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: p.j.
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 10:17 PM

Mark, I was at a music camp last week where I took my first didge workshop. WOW! It's as amazing to watch as it is to hear described. I want to say that you explained in a couple of simple sentences what it took our teacher the first 2 days to get us to understand. Thank you for your clear description, I plan to e-mail it to a couple of friends who took the workshop with me.

A couple of other cool didge moments I just have to share...

On day 6 we all took turns getting "didged" on a picnic table. (Shuddup 'Spaw.) Each of us took turns lying on the table with your eyes closed for about 5 min. while the other 15 or so people pointed their instruments at you (I said shaddup, Spaw) and held a note. All the students' practice didges were 36-48" long, but the teacher's was over 6' and it made the ground shake! He rested his on the table and, being a circular breathing master, kept the table rattling the whole time in one unbroken note. It was *amazing*, and after you got over the first minute or so of WEIRD, then finished being emabarrased and got used to the tickle, it became extremely relaxing. Honest, they oughta sell tickets to this like getting a massage...

The other moment was on day 8 when we got a demonstration of the sounds that can be produced when you begin with a mouth full of water. Good lord. It was like an echo chamber with dripping water coupled with the distant rumble of a basso profundo Tibetan monk. This went on for a minute or so, and I guess at some point he managed to swallow the water while circular breathing, because it was an unbroken note that carried him through the next 5-6 minutes of rhythm, intonation and amazing transic sounds. We went nuts.

Mark, according to alison you're every bit that good, maybe more-- is there anywhere we can hear/see you play?

pj

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 09:59 PM

Practice.

It comes with practice.

It comes with a conscious act of working on ambidexterity.

To all those budding musicians out there. It is practice that makes the difference.

Do not let anyone tell you its genetic. That you have it or you dont. Talent is over-rated. Practice is under-rated.

Practice. It makes the difference. "Gifted" or not. Those with the gifts are those who know how to practice.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 09:31 PM

James Galway is another who must have cracked the art of circular breathing. Umtil I sussed his secret I found it stressful to listen to - especially the endless moto perpetuum stuff.

Seamus Kennedy, and Shambles, I'm in the same boat. The ones who really piss me off are the ones who not only remember to breathe, but also can hold an animated conversation wholly unrelated to whatever fiendishly difficult thing they're playing on some instrument or other.

I guess Tom Lehrer is the most obvious villain in this respect. But I once volunteered to turn the pages for Carlo Curly. He nearly set the cathedral organ console on fire, but throughout the whole recital, he nattered away to me vigorously, even gesticulating wildly, whenever a hand happened to be free.

I suppose what really, really pisses me off is my conviction that this will never come with practice. You either have it or you don't,

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 08:13 PM

Thanks for the plug Alison.

It really isn't difficult. I have to breath so I figure why not make some musically useful sounds while doing it.

Rhythmically I do cheat however. The didge rhythms are closely associated with my other rhythms being played on the kit. But that is the kit drummers trick. All the rhtyhms being on all limbs always have a common reference point.

Limb independance and ambidexterity and circular breathing all look and sound much more dificult than they are in practice. Mystique removed.

So now I only owe you $25 Alison.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: alison
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 10:53 PM

shambles if flute players breathe is less obvious places than at the end of phrases, (like I described above only pick a different beat of the bar).... you don't need circular breathing.

another tip

when you are running out of breath most people tend to lean backwards, it is better to lean forwards.... something to do with lung capacity and the diaphragm.....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 04:24 PM

Banjo Bonnie, I have the same problem of forgetting to breath when I'm concentrating. I think it's probably something to do with the wiring in our brains.

Mcmoo, I wish you were right about not having to breath while playing the accordion. If that were true, I'd probably be a much better accordion player.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 03:42 PM

Would this circular breathing help flute players, playing those fast reels? They sound sometimes like they are going to die.

I find it impossible to talk or even listen to a conversation when playing tunes. Ok when playing chords though. Some people seem to manage it quite well?

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 12:28 PM

Alison do you have any more tips?
I get into trouble for taking to many breaths and taking them at inappropriate places when playing flute/whistle
sit-ups (to strengthen stomach muscles) and running (for stamina) have been suggested but I am too lazy to do either
The circular breathing sounds useful too

Roger - who can only play for 15 seconds before taking another breath

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Jon W.
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 11:32 AM

Face scrunching - my wife always laughs at me when I do that - it's gotten so I can't hardly play when she's around, I get so self-conscious.

Once I was playing at a grade school and one of the kids came up afterwards and asked me why I stuck my tongue out when I played. I asked him if he had ever watched Michael Jordan playing basketball...

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Grab
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 08:14 AM

Oops, cookie's been eaten! Anyway, in the UK there was a program called "How do they do that" which featured circular breathing. They found a trumpeter who could do it, and he showed them how it worked. To demonstrate, they got him to blow through a straw in a glass of water. About a minute's worth of continuous bubbles later, he'd proved his point...

Grab.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 06:00 AM

One of Humphrey Lyttleton's reed players (Jimmy Skidmore, I think) is adept at this and takes a whole solo break of several minutes without appearing to breathe. Fascinating!
I'm told my problem is that I remember to breathe!
RtS

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 05:26 AM

Yes the above advice is sound and breathing is generally necessary when playing instruments except in the case of accordion players...(8o))

Peace

mcmoo

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: alison
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 01:46 AM

tip for whistle / flute players... If you're playing a jig.. do NOT breathe at the end of phrases.. it makes your breathing very obvious, and makes the tune sound "jumpy". Breathe on the 2nd or 5th beats in the bar (6/8 time)... much less obvious, and doesn't interfere with the phrasing of the tune

Mark has to be seen to be believed... hands playing one or more rhythms on drum kit and bodhran, while his mouth does others on the dige..... great stuff..... (send $50 anytime you're ready Mark *grin*)

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Les B
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 01:33 AM

Banjo Bonnie: Sounds to me like your not breathing and "dry mouth" is a mighty fine cure for that other notable banjo players malady - drooling !!!

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 11:25 PM

Cool subject. I have a friend here in Orillia, Mike Latter, who is a very fine guitar player and songwriter. He breathes so loudly through his nose while playing the instrumental parts that it's darn near impossible to edit out of his recordings...quite a problem.

According to my Taoist health studies (and yoga, etc.) you are best advised not to hold your breath while concentrating on something, because this interferes with rythmic energy flow. There's one kind of situation where you are advised to hold your breath, but that's a Taoist sexual health technique (for men), and I think that I had better not talk about it, because people might get the wrong idea, seeing most of you don't know me too well yet on Mudcat. Anyway, it's kind of outside this particular area of discussion, I'd say.

As for the didgeridoo (how do you spell it?)...I've got a friend, Paul Lagace, who has one, and he plays the bloody thing constantly, driving everyone nuts. We are thinking of shipping it off to Bill Clinton (who would no doubt find some use for it...) or else burning it. Any suggestions?

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 10:48 PM

I don't think this is too much of a thread drift, but when I'm playing an instrumental, I can't listen to, or talk to someone who is trying to talk to me. Frantic head nodding, but no comprehension. (Me, not them!) All the best. Seamus

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:52 PM

Mark, I really did not know what didge meant and I do appreciate your answer.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:49 PM

Marcus, pardon my computer illiteracy but you can get there by going to google.com and searching "circular breathing". It's one of the first sites listed. Good luck.

Bonnie, scrooching is probably synonymous with scrunching and a if I'm not mistaken a didgeridoo is an Austrailian aboriginal wind instrument made from a hollowed-out tree limb which makes a wide range of sounds. Maybe someone more knowledgable will further enlighten us.

Frankie

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Mbo
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:45 PM

I'm playing the Highland Pipe Chanter, and you have to do circular breathing! I'm no master by any means, but I'm getting the hang of it! BTW my sister always remarks that when I (and others) play classical guitar, we tend to relax while we play, and breathe TOO loud!

--Matt

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mark Antipodean
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:42 PM

What's didge?

You must be joking. Its didgeridoo.

Whats scrooching.

Thats what I am doing with my face muscles right now.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:32 PM

Bonnie......Please go see your own post on the thread about things that people will never let you forget.

The various contortions, facial or otherwise (ala Neil Young), are always one of the more interesting parts of watching and listening to people play any instrument. Paul Desmond used to be simply amazing on alto sax and when you watched him, you'd have sworn he was dead! Not only was his body perfectly still, but you could barely perceive any finger movement.

I think if you're singing/humming/whatevering along it helps and forces you to breathe.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Marcus
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:29 PM

No luck with that link to sneazy:

sneezy.org/Clarinet/Study/Circular Breathing.html

Has anyone else tried it?

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:27 PM

I think I am missing something here.
What is 'scrooching'? Is that different than scrunching?
And what is didge?

BB

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:25 PM

Yeah Roger, I have a similar problem with a mic. I get a wind whistling down the canyon effect if I'm not careful.

And Bonnie, studying meditation might be constructive. It helped me with my breathing.

Frankie

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:25 PM

Where are all those wind and brass playing Mudcatters?

Any comments.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:21 PM

Playing didge is good for developing breathing awareness.

I continue to "scrooch" my face however.

Scrooching is not amplified through the PA system however.

The good thing about didge is that your breathing sounds are channeled into a pleasing sound.

As for those who laugh at the "face scroochers" I think they are a bit nasty and are probably covering for their own insecurities.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: ddw
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:17 PM

I knew a trumpet player in my high school band who had mastered circular breathing and could hold a note for bloody well ever. Went to a Quarteto Gilato (Sp?) concert a while back and the flute player held a note for a LONG time. During intermission a friend was commenting on it and I tried to explain what was going on and he as much as called me a liar — didn't believe it could be done. The next night I was looking at the news wire and found an entertainment brief saying trumpeter Winton Marsailas (Sp? again) had must set a world record by holding a note more than 26 minutes. Nice to get backup for your (doubted) claims.

david

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:12 PM

Thank goodness, Roger relates!

Catspaw what is a 'no whizzing' guarantee? I don't get it. Mind you there is lots I don't get.
But I do appreciate your thoughts on relaxing Catspaw yet I am not really feeling nervous when I am playing on my own, I just get so into it sometimes that I become unaware of everything else I guess.

Frankee, I have noticed other musicians having scrunched up faces while performing. Never really could understand why that happens to some.

BB

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:01 PM

I couldn't wait, Marcus. I found more about circular breathing at sneezy.org/Clarinet/Study/Circular Breathing.html. Apparently it's a technique that wind instrument players use which could lead to work as a Dizzy Gillespie impersonator somewhere down the line.

Frankie

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 08:46 PM

Bonnie,

I know whereof you speak. Besides you and I, I belive there are many of us who hold our breath when we really concentrate. I suspect it helps quiet those distracting breathing noises.

The flip side is my current problem. I breath heavily when I do an instrumental. I have to remember to lean away from the microphone or the whole house thinks its getting a nasty phone call.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 08:40 PM

Hey BonAmi.......I think Marcus might require a "No Whizzing" guarantee from you, and then again, maybe he's into that sort of thing.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 08:26 PM

And while you're doing all of the above,Bonnie, give us a virtuostic rendition of Maple Leaf Rag on your banjo. Just kidding, Marcus. I'm curious as to where I can find out more about the above technique as I have a breathing problem that's a bit different than Bonnie's. I tend to suck air through my mouth when I'm playing something difficult, which in turn causes me to scrooch up my face which causes people to laugh when I'm playing, at least I hope that is why they're laughing. What I've done to correct it is to concentrate on my breathing while playing something very slowly and to gradually build up speed but I still have lapses in stressful moments.

Frankie

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 08:25 PM

Dr. Marcus Welby Campus Jr., where were you when I was born?
I sure could have used you then.

BB

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Marcus CampusBellorum
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 08:07 PM

Developing "circular breathing" Step 1: Breath with your mouth closed. Concentrate on what your mouth is doing (which is not much). Step 2: Continue with step 1 (ie: keep breathing through nose) Fill your cheeks, puff them out, make yourself look very silly. Hold that pose. Hold hold hold that "cheek air". Step 3: Focus on your nasal breaths but manipulate that stored captured air in your cheeks. Do not release it. Just move it around (left side right side front over teeth etc). Keep breathing through your nose. Step 4: Focus on your nasal "in-breath" as well as your cheek muscles. Compress the air in your cheeks each time you breath in. Dont release the air yet. Really squash that air. Pressure pressure pressure. Experiment with "synchronising the compression with your in-breaths. Step 5: Focus on lip muscles and in-breath. As you breath in release lips very slightly. Very very slightly. Compress that stored air and expell it out through your lips. Dont get to intellectual about what your nose is doing (ie breathing in). Just breath and focus on those cheek and lip muscles. Step 6: Do it all again and again.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 07:48 PM

Mark, how do you do that didgeridoo breathing? == Johnny

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: GUEST,Mark cookieless
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 07:39 PM

I play percussion kit and didge.

Playing them at the same time requires a keen focus on breatbing. .

Initially anyway.

Damned good therapy.

Subject: RE: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 07:36 PM

If you stop breathing completely, your playing will stop likewise. Try to avoid this or get one of those emergency call buttons......

I've stopped playing and I think I'm dead.

Spaw -- Try to relax and it gets better

Subject: Breathing During Instrumental Playing
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 07:31 PM

When I get really focused on a tune, especially a new tune that I am working on, I almost stop breathing while playing my banjo. I get so focused on what I am doing that when I stop I realize I have been barely breathing, my mouth is dry and I have no clue why I do this. I have a feeling it does not enhance my playing, but I get so engrossed in my music that I guess I forget everything else, including to breath.
I don't think that is very healthy.

Just wondering if anyone else experience anything like this.

Bonnie