Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III

Subject: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 04:49 PM

Since part II is getting long...

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 04:58 PM

May I remind anyone who has any ambition at all towards helping with this project:

1)the lists of "Songs without tunes" and "songs without tunes that we have located tunes for" are both available from me - PM MMario or e-mail lpola@edutech to get the latest updated versions (Monday through friday)[tuesday through friday next week]

2)If you aren't capable of producing a midi or ABC file but have sheet music and can scan or xerox there are people who you can send them too who will produce the electronic files.

3) if you can even take the time to search the forum/DT to identify items where the tune is ALREADY in the DT or Forum, but not yet linked in the DT - then post the locations - THAT is also a big help.

4) for originals or very obscure songs - audio files can be sent to people who are capable or transcribing by ear - or sing them to them over HEARME...

Anyone can help. Believe me.

yes, you too can help swamp DickG with hundreds of tune files.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Barbara
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 06:20 PM

Say, MMario, would you say here what the protocol is for posting them once they're in MIDI? Do I post 'em here with Alan's program, or ship 'em to someone or what?
Thanks,
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:36 PM

see Please Post tunes here thread for instructions

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:12 PM

One I didn't realise I had:

FIONNGHUALA filename[ FINNONGU  Puzzlingly described as "Irish" in the DT, perhaps because it was once recorded by the Bothy Band.  Traditional Scottish version (their source, so far as I know) recorded by the School of Scottish Studies from the singing of Calum Johnston (of Barra?).  Midi made from the transcription given in the notes to "Music from the Western Isles" (Tangent Records TNGM 110, 1971: re-issued on Greentrax CDTRAX 9002).  The notation is difficult, involving bars apparantly in 13/16, 14/16, 15/16 and 16/16.  I'm not convinced that it sounds a lot like the recorded version, but it goes, as given, to Alan.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 09:48 AM

updated files as of 9/1 now available.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 11:49 AM

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 11:55 AM

Oops! I hit Submit too soon!

The last couple of days have set me thinking about what we're trying to achieve with this big drive to get tunes into the DT.

In my usual way, I just jumped in without thinking too clearly about what was required. I just assumed that other people would want what I wanted from the DT - the bare bones of a tune that would work with the song, leaving it up to the user to add flesh to the bones with their own phrasing, ornamentation, tempo etc.

For instance, I posted an ABC of Goodnight Irene, derived from the Penguin Book of American Folksongs. This was Lomax's transcription of how Leadbelly actually performed it. But I stripped all the decoration etc, and submitted the basic tune as sung by (possibly) millions of the non-performing public in homes, pubs, at football matches (it is the anthem of one of the Bristol teams, can't remember which), and other places where plain folks sing. Was I bastardising and bowdlerising the tradition like a Victorian collector, or was that a valid posting of the way most people sing it?

And where there were several versions of a song which could all go to the same tune, I have submitted entries saying XYZ (3) - see XYZ or similar. Not knowing in some cases whether these songs had actually ever been sung to these tunes, just knowing that they could be sung to them. Almost all of the 20-plus Unfortunate Rake family in the DT could be sung to one of the DT's basic Streets of Laredo tunes, but were they? I sent in a simplified ABC of The Young Sailor Cut Down In His Prime the other day, taken from a field recording in Suffolk in the 50's, because it was sufficiently different from the Streets tunes in DT, and the words were almost identical. But I don't know if Harry Cox used the same tune as I sent in from Stan Steggles.

And when does personal variation in singing make someone's rendering into a distinct tune rather than just a different treatment of the same tune? How many variants do we want? Some DT tunes are not the ones that I know for that song. In most cases I have done nothing about this but I was moved to send Dick a 4/4 version of Star of the County Down, because that's the only way I've ever heard it sung or played in Britain (or even as a 2/4 in Ireland), and couldn't believe the waltzy version in DT.

Moreover, a fair few of the existing tunes in DT are frankly not very good, but you can usually get the idea of what's intended from them, unconsciously correcting the bum notes as you go along. Do we want to leave these as they are, get them out of DT and replace them with good transcriptions, or leave them and have good and bad side by side?

Seeing contributions from people like Malcolm Douglas, which are not only replete with hard-earned scholarship, but also an uncompromising integrity and concern for authenticity, has made me question my own slapdash methods and the true value of what I have contributed so far.

I have just about reached the end of the tunes I can copy from printed sources or find on the web, but there are still 100-200 that I might be able to transcribe from tape/CD/vinyl or from my own memory. But what do I transcribe? The simple basic melody, or do I try for a faithful reproduction of every nuance of the singer's particular interpretation? If so, am I capable of achieving it? And if I know the chorus but not the verse (many music-hall type songs) is it OK to just send in the chorus for now, until someone more knowledgeable comes up with a complete version?

Sorry to go on at such length. What do other 'Catters think?

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 12:16 PM

I believe what dick has been looking for is the un-ornamented melody line, but as for the rest, I can't tell you. I *personally* prefer any version that will let me sing it to nothing.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 12:48 PM

2388)MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE, abc posted
3475)TOM JOAD, abc posted

And I am with Mario on this one, scholarship is great, but something is better than nothing. I am trying to do as much documentation as I can, though.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:34 PM

2629) OLD SPINNING WHEEL- midi sent to alan 9/1

2630) THE OLD SPINNING WHEEL - midi sent to alan 9/1

2765) PILLS OF WHITE MERCURY -http://www.mudcat.org/thread.CFM?threadID=7421

2770) PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA - see tunefile [LITBOX

2793) POLLY VAUGHN - see Molly Bawn [POLLVON2

2794) POLLY VAUGHN (3)- see Molly Bawn [POLLVON2

2826) THE PRICKILIE BUSH - see [HANGMN1

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 09:33 PM

Decoration is fine if you have the tune that definitely belongs to the text; otherwise I'd guess that a generic tune may be safer.  It's probably a good plan not to rush into posting things that have the right title but may not actually match up with the text on the DT.  I've been spending a good bit of time trying to fit words (so often posted inaccurately by well-meaning people who didn't understand the idiom) to what ought to be the right melodies, and having a hell of a time of it!  Hey, just because I'm a bit anal-retentive about that kind of thing doesn't mean you have to be.

By the way, re. AILENN DUINN filename[ AILNDUIN  -I have the music for this version in Bruce Campbell's Oran nan Gaidheal (Gairm, 1987), but it's in Tonic Sol-Fa, which I can't make head nor tail of.  If anybody round here can read it, I'll happily send a scan of the page...There's a tune in Kennedy, too, but's it's a different version (Flora MacNeil) which doesn't fit the DT text.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 06:33 PM

More midis:

ABOUT THE BUSH, WILLY filename[ BUSHWILI  Tune from Northumbrian Minstrelsy, Bruce & Stokoe (1882)

ANDREW CARR filename[ ANDRCAR  The file contains 2 Scottish versions and one English.  Tune for the latter is in Bruce & Stokoe.  As it stands, it's a 9/8 AABB jig, and the given text is rather difficult to sing to it, so I've made one midi of the tune as given, and another, slightly modified to make a singable set.  This is only a suggestion; it should be emphasised that the traditional form might have been quite different.

BONNIE WEE LASSIE THAT NEVER SAID NO filename[ NEVSAYNO  Jeannie Robertson's version.  Midi made from the transcription in Jeannie Robertson: Emergent Singer, Transformative Voice (Porter & Gower, 1995).

CALLING ON SONG filename[ CLNGON and CALLING-ON SONG filename[ CALLNGON  are both transcriptions of Ashley Hutchings' 1970 re-write of the Captain's song of the Earsdon Sword Dancers.  The former attributes the piece, the latter does not but is a more accurate transcription.  Midi made from Hutchings' recording with Steeleye Span (Hark the Village Wait, RCA, 1970).

COME UP AND SEE MY GARRET filename[ COMGARET  The entry cites 3 versions, but doesn't say whether they share the same tune.  I have Jeannie Robertson's version, which is set to a different tune than the one Ewan MacColl used.  Midi sent, with the caveat that it's only one of at least two alternatives.

CRAIGIE HILL filename[ CRAIGHIL  No source given.  It looks to be the version that Dick Gaughan recorded, which came from Brigid Tunney: Paddy Tunney included it in The Stone Fiddle, and I've made a midi from the notation given there.

DARK EYED SAILOR filename[ DARKEYE2  Presumably transcribed from recordings by Christy Moore or Steeleye Span.  Since the latter is the earlier recording, I've made a midi based on that, using the version in Roy Palmer's Everyman's Book of English Country Songs as a template.  Gay Woods learnt the song from Al O'Donnell of Dublin, incidentally.  I've just seen that Snuffy has posted an .abc, but this will save someone having to mess about converting it.

GHRUAGACH DHONN filename[ GRUDHONN  Tune from Moffat's Minstrelsy of the Scottish Highlands.  It's clearly a member of the Hind Horn/Cruel Mother (etc.) tune family.

POLLY VAUGHN (3) filename[ POLLVON3  Harry Cox's version; and it should be spelled Vaughan!  Midi made from Kennedy's transcription (Folk Songs of Britain and Ireland.

Cross-references:

THE COUNTRY LASS filename[ CNTYLAS  The entry doesn't give any source, but Robert Burns published it as Country Lassie.  See COUNTRY LASSIE filename[ CNTRYLAS, CNTRYLAS.mid

HOO CAN I KEEP MY MAIDENHEID filename[ HOWMAID  See THE BIRKS OF ABERFELDIE filename[ ABERFELD  -ABERFELD.mid

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: IvanB
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:02 PM

Malcolm, I'm certainly no expert on Sol-Fa, but I did transcribe one so I could sing it at church (the accompanist needed hers written out on a staff!). If you want to send me a scan, I'll try to work it out. You can send it here:

Ivan Bradley's e-mail

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 08:29 PM

Thanks, Ivan: will do.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:54 PM

Snuffy, I must admit that I have bit my tongue somewhat on this subject, but I have a few observations to make.

Dick has certainly made a point of seeking unornamented tunes. If you are transcribing from a printed source I believe that it is preferable to quote the source AND to transcribe it as faithfully as possible, even if it is highly ornamented. Remove the fal-de-lals if you wish, but then make it clear in your posting that you have edited the original source material.

Where we don't have access to the original source of alternative versions of a particular song I would favour leaving the tune as unknown. Tunes mutate in exactly the same way as lyrics do - marches become waltzes, major keys become minor, accidentals get added or deleted. Deeming that every version is identical can deny the end result of a rich folk process.

I have to agree very much with Malcolm re aligning lyrics and tune. I have located a number of older ballad scores in particular where the new tune will simply not fit the existing DT lyrics without some degree of bastardisation and/or I'm simply not smart enough to get them to fit without access to some primary reference source. Scottish songs in particular are often riddled with slurred notes which I find quite bifficult to align words and tune.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 08:56 AM

MM, I have tunes for:

Lowlands Rolling Home 2 Ranzo Hangin Johnny Girls Around Cape Horn Across The Line

Have any of these been accounted for please? Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:26 AM

I don't *think* so....(it was a GOOD weekend....*grin*)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:34 AM

Howse about 'Hangin on the old barbed wire'? Cheers, John

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:34 AM

Aw foodles, I just finished Lowlands last nite--if John has it, I won't post it, BUT my words are a Mobile Bay version, not in the DT, should I post them? Also, the words I have to Poor Lazrus are just a bit different--same story, but in a Gullah type dialect. Should I post them? (I think the tune will fit......)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:42 AM

why not? minimum it means other people have access through the forum

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:14 AM

2193)LOWLANDS 2
2194)LOWLANDS 3
2195)LOWLANDS 4
New thread started for the above, with a different set of words that the DT. I believe the tune will fit all of the above, and John in Brisbane has a tune, also.

2798)POOR LAZURUS, new thread started with different words from Lomax, tune included.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:28 AM

1353)GOOBER PEAS, abc posted to Tune Thread
2965)ROCK ABOUT MY SARO JANE abc posted to Tune Thread

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 04:00 AM

MMario, do you have Roast Beef of Old England? I note that Barry Taylor has a good MIDI. Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 04:06 AM

Also I see that Anachreon in Heaven is not credited with a tune. Most people probably know that the Star Spangled Banner words were added to the Anachreon tune. Composer was John Smith. Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:33 AM

John - Roast Beef of Old England and Anachreon in Heaven have both been posted.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:55 AM

No Tune list has been updated as of this morning.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 12:28 PM

2332)MIGHTY LAK' A ROSE, abc posted
2418)MY GAL SAL, abc posted

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 01:42 PM

122) ARE YOU LONESOME TONIGHT? - midi sent to alan 9/6

816) DEAD DOG SCRUMPY - midi sent to alan 6/5

1236) FRIGGIN IN THE RIGGIN - midi sent to alan 9/6

1546) HILLI BALLU - posted to thread 23672 9/5

1763) IN MY LIVERPOOL HOME - posted to thread 23672 9/5

896) DON'T CRY IN YOUR SLEEP- posted to thread 23672 9/5

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 12:29 PM

The Knight and the Unicorn found:here has had a midi sent to Alan.

3311) SWEET KING WILLIAMS TOWN - midi from Noreen sent to Alan 9/7

3763) WILD GOOSE (RANZO)- mid from John_in_Brisbane sent 9/6

599) A CAVEAT AGAINST CUTPURSES - midi sent to alan 9/6

1310) GIVE ME THREE GRAINS OF CORN, MOTHER - midi sent 9/6

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Barbara
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 01:22 PM

I've been away last week, will get to tunes forthwith. Don't believe Anachreon in Heaven is exactly the same as the SSB, and would be nice to have the variant, but I don't think I have it. I'll look.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 02:52 PM

2602) OLD GOSPEL SHIP - midi sent to alan 9/7

1375) GOSPEL SHIP - midi sent to alan 9/7

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 03:09 PM

1497) HELP ME MAKE IT THROUGH THE YARD

1498) HELP ME MAKE IT THRU THE NIGHT

midi for both sent to alan 9/7

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 04:54 PM

More midis, sent 7th. September:

WILLIE O'DOUGLAS DALE filename[ WILDOUG  Text from David Buchan (A Book of Scottish Ballads, 1973): this is Child #101, version A.  The original source was Mrs. Anna Gordon Brown (1747-1810) of Fife; the tune given is Bronson's conjectural timing based on the original ms.

FOUNTAIN FILLED WITH BLOOD filename[ FOUNTINB  Tune written or arranged by Lowell Mason, (1830?) variously known as "Cowper", "Cleansing Fountain", etc...midi adapted from two found online.

STANDING STONES filename[ STANSTON  Version recorded by Peter Kennedy from John & Ethel Findlater of Dounby, Orkney, in 1955.  Midi made from Kennedy's transcription in Folk Songs of Britain and Ireland.

THE SEASONS ROUND filename[ SEASRND  Copper Family version, called by them The Ploughshare.  Also known as The Seasons of the Year.  Midi made from the transcription in Bob Copper's A Song for Every Season.

THE BOATSMAN AND THE TAILOR filename[ BOATTAIL  Whoever contributed this text gave no information of any kind as to where it came from.  It is, however, identical word-for-word to that collected by Cecil Sharp from Charles Neville at East Coker in 1908, so it seems reasonable to suppose that that is what it is.  James Reeves published it in The Idiom of the People (1958); he too gives the text only, but remarks: "In English Folk Songs...Sharp describes the words... as "boisterous and unprintable", and appropriates what he calls "its fine air" to another set of words, The Green Wedding."  I have therefore made a midi of that tune as published by Sharp.  The DT transcriber also failed to mention, incidentally, that the refrain "To my rally dally da do, rally dally day", is sung twice each time.

I AM A ROVER filename[ IMAROVR2  Source named, thankyou!  Watersons, from Kidson's Traditional Tunes (1891): I've made a midi from his version (#1), but, since the Watersons had made a number of changes to the melody and its phrasing by the time they recorded it, I felt obliged to make a midi of that, too.

WILD GEESE filename[ WGEESE  Yet another singer who felt that Carolan's Planxty Irwin was "too singable to be reserved for musicians", and couldn't resist the temptation to do something about it.  Oh well; Midi made on the off-chance that there's somebody out there who hasn't heard it 8 million times already...

GOING TO BANBURY filename[ GOBANBUR  No source mentioned (and whoever typed it up seems not to have known what a codling was), but it's identical to the version Cecil Sharp collected from Sister Emma of Clewer, Berkshire, in 1909.  Midi made from his notation (The Crystal Stream,1975).

HERRING'S HEAD filename[ HERRHEAD  Taken from a book called Irish Songs of the Sea, which I've never come across.  What I do have, though, is a version recorded by Peter Kennedy from Seamus Ennis in 1959 (and called The Herring Song), which is very similar indeed textually; I imagine, therefore (optimistically), that the same is true of the tune.  Midi made from the notation in Folk Songs of Britain & Ireland.

I WONDER WHAT IS KEEPING MY TRUE LOVE TONIGHT filename[ KEEPLOVE  No indication whatever as to where this one came from; what a surprise.  There don't seem to be many versions in print, though, so I'm going for the one in Kennedy, recorded from Mary McGarvey of Donegal by Seamus Ennis in 1954, and called The Green Grass It Grows Bonny.  For the people who like to add to threads "so-and-so [revival singer] has done a wonderful version of this", I'd say that this is where Kate Rusby got her tune from, though possibly at one generation's remove.

JOHNNY ARMSTRONG (2) filename[ JARMSTR2  Child #169: text from Allan Ramsay's The Ever Green; the Oxford Book of Ballads couples it with tune no. #356 in The Scots Musical Museum, from which I've made a midi.

HIGHLAND BALOU filename[ HIGHBALU  Robert Burns again.  Midi from notation in BP&S.

JUST AS THE TIDE WAS FLOWING filename[ JUSTIDE  No source named.  This song has only one tune, though, and versions don't vary very much; so, hey, it can have the one given by Kidson in Traditional Tunes, which has a similar (broadside) text.

THE KIELDER HUNT filename[ KIELDHNT  Willie Scott's version from The Scottish Folksinger: midi made from the tune in the book.

LE ROI A FAIT BATTRE TAMBOUR filename[ LEROIFAI  Presumably transcribed from a record, with consequent spelling mistakes!  I am not familiar with Anne Sylvestre or Cindy Mangsen, but the song is a very well-known one in France; I learned it myself when I lived there.  All the tunes I've heard it sung to have been closely-related; Midi made from the similar version, called La Marquise Empoisonnée given in Le Livre des Chansons (Henri Davenson, 1955), which is a particularly nice hypodorian melody.

THE SANDGATE LASS ON THE ROPERY BANKS filename[ ROPERY  Tune specified is Fy let us a' to the Bridal; midi made from the set in James Aird's collection (Volume I, 1782; .abc transcription by Jack Campin), slightly modified to fit.

Cross-references etc.:

SEAL SONG filename[ SEALSONG  Midi already at Alan's site, posted by me some months back, under its usual title of Hó i Hó i.

THE LASSIE WHA NEVER SAYS NO filename[ NEVRSAY  No source named . This is a not-terribly-good transcription by ear of the text of Jeannie Robertson's BONNIE WEE LASSIE THAT NEVER SAID NO (filename[ NEVSAYNO) for which I've already sent in a midi.  For all its faults, this file does at least have the verse omitted from the latter.

THE SEVEN WONDERS filename[ SVNWONDR  DT text from the singing of somebody called Jill King.  The English language version commonly known was recorded by Maddy Prior and June Tabor (Silly Sisters); they learnt it from Mick Tems of Pontadawe; ...see thread     for the full details.  Midi sent to Alan some months back: Seven Wonders, The.

FAREWELL TO THE MONTY filename[ FARWMNTY  Midi sent by me to Alan, re.thread  Tunes for songs

DOWN IN THE COAL MINE filename[ DOWNCOAL  Midi sent re. above thread.

THRESHING SONG filename[ THRESONG  This is a duplicate of OLD THRESHING SONG filename[ THRSHSNG, which has the tune THRSHSNG.mid

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 05:04 PM

I omitted this link:  Seven Wonders

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Barbara
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:38 PM

Just shipped Alan:
41 Albatross
63 All Used Up
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 02:00 PM

"no tune" list and "found tune" list both updated as of NOW.

If anyone is interested 'catters have located/relocated/posted approximatly 933 tunes out of the "missing" 3874

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 04:39 PM

1265 GAUDETE - several versions posted to this thread Gaudete - Steeleye Span

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 08:10 PM

2091 LILY THE PINK
2092 LILY THE PINK (3)
I posted an ABC to this thread Lily The Pink

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 07:24 AM

Oh, Snuffy- and I just e-mailed the tune to MMario last night!!

Noreen

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 08:50 AM

That is one reason we are posting them here as soon as we do something with them, Noreen. Attn: all tune finders!! I will be gone all next week, (well, I will be home Tues eve and Wed. day, but no time to look for tunes.) I haven't stopped or given up, just taking a break. When I get back, I will request the up dated list, and plunge in again, but I don't know if I can find anymore.

I have exhausted my meager library's resources, and am down to asking friends--Do you have this tune? I have a very few of them on tape or LP, but I can't transcribe from those, or put down what is in my head, so I may be stuck. See ya all after the 17th.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 10:05 AM

1336 GODSPEED THE PLOW - MIDITEXT posted to this thread godspeed the plow

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 10:16 AM

Send no MIDI's to Alan until after the Olympics--(request from him on another thread)Posting here so all will be sure to see it somewhere.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Barbara
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 12:21 PM

Shipped
53 All Among the Barley
Posted my working on to the list, but will also put here:
17 Across the Blue MOuntains
37 Ain't You Got A Right
58 All the Good Times
66 Alison Gross
79 American Pie
97 Andy's Gone

Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Barbara
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 12:25 PM

Actually, kids, the music for Andy's Gone is here posted by John of Brisbane, so rememeber, kiddies, do a forum search before you transcribe your tunes.
Blessings,
BArbara

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 04:47 PM

More midis (to be sent to Alan after the Olympics):

MOWING THE BARLEY filename[ MOWBRLY  No source named again.  The text appears to be the version collected by Cecil Sharp from Miller Spearman at Ile Brewers, Somerset in 1904, so that's the tune it's getting; midi made from the notation in The Crystal Stream (Sharp/Karpeles, 1975).  Whoever posted the text forgot to mention that what looks like the second verse is, in fact, the chorus.  Sharp changed verse 4 line 4 from "And a handful of gold and silver" to "And a handful of golden money"; the "I" in the DT text is a typo.  Also known as Lawyer Lee.

THE MOWER filename[ THEMOWER  Text transcribed from a record by A.L. Lloyd.  I'm not even going to attempt to make a midi by ear from his singing, so I've used what I take to be his source, The Mower, published in his book Folk Song in England (1967, p. 204) and collected by him from an unnamed Dorset singer in 1939.

ONE MAN SHALL MOW MY MEADOW filename[ ONEMANMW  Presumably transcribed from a record by a band called "Gold Ring".  It appears to be the version collected by Cecil Sharp from Mr. Morris of Marston Magna, Somerset, in 1905; in which case, verse 1 line 3 should be: "Two men, one man and one more".  Midi made from the notation in The Crystal Stream (Sharp/Karpeles, 1975).  From the inclusion of the word "it" in line 2 of each verse, I suspect that "Gold Ring" used the tune Sharp published in 100 English Folk Songs (1916), in which the rhythm was regularised for the parlour or concert singer; I have modified the melody at that point to accommodate the extra word, but otherwise it is as originally noted.  Alfred Williams (Folk Songs of the Upper Thames, 1923) gives a text from Kencot in Oxfordshire (Mowing Down the Meadow) and remarks: "Like The Barley Mow, this was often called for at the harvest-homes and other farm feasts."  Sharp had also heard it used as a soldiers' marching song.

EAT WORMS filename[ EATWORMS  A traditional children's song.  Midi made from the version I learned in the early 1960s in South London:

Nobody loves me, everybody hates me;
Think I'll go and eat worms.
Short ones, fat ones, long skinny lean ones;
See how the little ones squirm.
Bite all their heads off (sucking noise) -all the juice out;
Throw the skins away.
Nobody knows how well we fare
On worms three times a day.

My tune doesn't really fit the DT text, but I don't care 'cos I prefer it!

LAND O' THE LEAL filename[ LANDLEAL  Transcribed from a Silly Wizard record.  The song was written by Lady Carolina Nairne in 1798, on the occasion of the death of the baby of her friend, Mary Anne Campbell, and circulated privately.  By the time it was published -"author unknown"- in 1801, in George Thomson's Select Collection of Original Scottish Airs (vol.II), it had acquired several variant forms. One of these, with the original "John" (the name of Mary's husband) changed to "Jean" (as in the Silly Wizard text), was posthumously attributed to Burns.  The DT text is fairly close to the original, though a little cut.  The song was first published with the music to which Lady Nairne set it, the traditional Hey tutti taiti (various spellings), in The Scottish Minstrel (vol. III, ed. R.A. Smith, 1824), from which I've made a midi.  I've also made a midi of the 3-part arrangement given in that book.  Information from Lady Nairne & her Songs, George Henderson (5th. edition, 1908).  A traditional version, Be Kind Tae Yer Nainsel', was collected by Rev. James Duncan in Aberdeenshire in the early 20th. century; whether it began as a parody of Lady Nairne's song, or whether she based her piece on an earlier version of it, I do not know.  At all events, it was published in The Folk Music Journal (1966) and recorded by Gordeanna McCulloch on Sheath & Knife (Topic Records 12TS370, 1978; recently re-issued on CD).
I've just noticed that John in Brisbane posted .abc and miditext of the melody in this thread:  Some More Missing Tunes  -I shall still send mine, though, as his reading is slightly different.
CALLER HERRIN' filename[ CALLRHRN  Also written by Lady Nairne, though I don't know who was responsible for the tune.  The version given in the DT is the "parlour" arrangement; midi made from the notation in The New National Song Book (Boosey & Hawkes, 1957).  The song was written for Nathaniel Gow, the publisher and musician (and son of the famous Niel), who was hard-up at the time.  Two verses are omitted from the parlour version:

Caller herrin's no got lichtlie,
Ye can trip the spring fu' tichtlie,
Spite o' tauntin', flauntin', flingin',
Gow has set ye a' a-singin'.

Neebour wives, now tent my tellin':
When the bonnie fish ye're sellin',
At ae word be in your dealin'-
Truth will stand when a' thing's failin'.

PRINCE CHARLIE STUART filename[ CHASTRT  Transcribed from a Steeleye Span record, pretty accurately but for the rather eccentric substitution of "toggin" for "tartan".  They had the song from Brigid Tunney; I shall be posting her version in a separate thread, but have made a midi of the tune as recorded by Span for sending to Alan.

LUDGIN' WI' BIG AGGIE filename[ BIGAGGIE  Text transcribed from a record by Robin Hall & Jimmy MacGregor.  Midi made from the version in The Scottish Folk Singer (Norman Buchan & Peter Hall, 1973) very slightly modified to fit.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 07:38 PM

Barbara,

You've saved me hours of heartache - I'd been working on Alison Gross for nealry a week. I'd got all the right notes, but couldn't get the timing right. It's easy enough to play, but a right sod to notate. Thanks for sparing me.

Wassail!V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 08:08 PM

If anyone is long on availability and short on materials please send me a PM and I can post you a BMP or TIFF (or can fax you anywhere in the world) - fr'instance 35 or so Lancashire songs. Finding the books and cross searching the DT and Forum is time consuming and getting some notation help would be marvellous. I've ignored (probably) thousands of songs that aren't in the DT at all and have tended to try to close the 'missing tune' gap.

Please give me a yell if you can make some time available. I will be away for the first week of the Olympics and won't have Web access.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 11 Sep 00 - 09:39 AM

from snuffy (in the other thread) 1558) HITLER (Has only got one ball...)

1697) I'LL TAKE THE LEGS (From Some Old Table)

1918) JUST A BUG AT TWILIGHT - posted by snuffy to thread 23672 9/10

2535) O'DONNELL ABU (The Clan Connell War Song)- posted by snuffy to thread 23672

2848) THE PUB WITH NO BEER - posted by snuffy to thread 23672 9/10

2955) ROBIN HOOD - posted by snuffy to thread 23672 9/10

3751) WHY OH WHY - posted by snuffy to thread 23672 9/10

3684) WHAT IS JENNIE WEEPING FOR - posted by snuffy to thread 23672 9/10

"no-tune" and "found-tune" files updated as of monday morning september 11.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Barbara
Date: 11 Sep 00 - 09:57 AM

Say, Snuffy, I haven't started Alison Crowse, and I was working on the same assumption as you: the tune is quite singable. I've got it on a Steeleye Span compilation, and was going to transcribe it from that.
Would you be willing to send me what you've got as a MIDI? If so, I'll PM you with my email.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Sep 00 - 10:04 AM

Barbara

I have been doing it in ABC, but I can make that ito a midi with no trouble.

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 11 Sep 00 - 10:10 AM

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 12 Sep 00 - 08:11 PM

NWC file of Michael Finnigin sent to Joe from a tif sent me by Noreen. Thanx Noreen!

it was heck at work today, so I didn't get the files completly updated, though there have been some new finds besides the above. will update tomorrow, promise! (unless it gets worse)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 13 Sep 00 - 12:48 PM

1336) GODSPEED THE PLOW - abc posted to http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=11185

2020) LAND O' THE LEAL - malcolm has ready to e-mail/John_in Brisbane posted to http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=13397#122886

2322) MICHAEL FINNEGAN - norreen suppplied tif - NWC sent to Joe

files updated as of Sept 13, am (mudcat time)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Sep 00 - 06:19 PM

I had a quick look at the Mudcat midi site the other day, and some midis seem to have snuck in for missing tunes. Have they been there for ever, and did they just appear recently without anybody noticing? Here are the results of a quick trawl, but I'm sure there could be others.

561 CAMBOURNE HILL

678 COLIN AND PHOEBE - couldn't download the midi to check.

845 DESERTER - there are two midis called The Deserter From Kent. They both fit the words given in DT. The song says he came from the west of Kent, and later that he was taken to "Maystone Jail". Maidstone is the county town of Kent, and still has a prison, I believe. So is this a match or not?

885 AN DO/RD FIANNA:, - midi is called O/ro/ se/ do bheatha 'bhaile

1257 GAMBLER, 1258 THE GAMBLER (2), 1259 THE GAMBLER (3), - couldn't download the midi to check which (if any) of these three it fits.

1321 GLENCOE - midi is titled Rape of Glencoe

1774 IN THE OLD BAZAAR IN CAIRO - a full length, multi-track version

2507 NOBLEMAN'S WEDDING

2514 THE NORTHERN LIGHTS OF OLD ABERDEEN - the tune has a 4-line chorus, the DT text has three. I think the third line is missing from DT.

2537 O'REILLY AND THE BIG MCNEILL

2599 THE OLD FISH SONG

3024 ROW-DOW-DOW

3240 THE SOUTH COAST

3269 A STOR MO CHROI

3699 WHEN FATHER PAPERED THE PARLOUR - chorus only

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: IvanB
Date: 15 Sep 00 - 05:36 PM

NWC's sent to Joe earlier this week:

1832) James James Morrison Morrison, filename [JAMMORSN

1800) It was a Lover and His Lass, filename [LOVERLAS

1063) Fall River Hoedown (Lizzie Borden), filename [FALLRIVR

728) Cotton Fields Back Home, filename [COTTNFLD

378) Blue Diamond Mine, filename [BLUDIAM

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:33 AM

files updated as of 9/18/00

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 11:43 AM

1509) HERE'S A DRAM FOR THE PIPER -http://www.mudcat.org/thread.CFM?threadID=4620#26546

1522) HEY THE DUSTY MILLER - midi sent to Joe 9/18

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 03:38 PM

3580) VINCENT (STARRY, STARRY NIGHT)- midi sent to joe 9/19/00

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Barbara
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 03:58 PM

If Snuffy hasn't shipped it to Joe, there's the ABC for Allison Gross posted in the Allison Gross thread, MMario.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 04:00 PM

oops! I got that Barbara, but forgot to post it.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 04:07 PM

Only 2883 to go guys!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 03:57 PM

814) THE DAY THE PUB BURNED DOWN -http://www.mudcat.org/Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=101768

1116) THE FEMALE SMUGGLER - midi sent to joe 9/20

968) DWELLING IN BEULAH LAND - midi sent to joe 9/20

files updated as of 9/20

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Noreen
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 06:27 PM

Good News! Up to 27 titles can be removed from the 'notune' list at a stroke: that is the number of titles that come up when '@recitation' is requested from the DT. I don't know them all, but 8 of them are Stanley Holloway recitations:
42)ALBERT AND THE LION
44) ALBERT'S RETURN
45) ALBERT'S REUNION
3064) SAM, SAM, PICK UP THA MUSKET
3062)SAM SMALL'S CHRISTMAS PUDDING
3434) THREE HA'PENCE A FOOT
275)THE BATTLE OF HASTINGS
267)THE BATTLE OF 'ASTINGS,
while
2283)MATILDA
is a poem by Hilaire Belloc

so at the very least, these 9 titles can be removed from the list.

ALSO, two of the above titles [275)THE BATTLE OF HASTINGS and 267)THE BATTLE OF 'ASTINGS] are identical apart from some spellings.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 09:41 AM

1703) I'M A LUMBERJACK - midi sent to joe 9/20/00

(Noreen! Thank you for going through the list and identifying the recitations. I am going to mark them as such in the list - though I have found references to some of them having been set to tunes, so will not remove them from the 'no tune' list)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 11:38 AM

MMario, I wondered about that; I know the ones I stated do not have tunes, but wouldn't know for sure whether categorising other pieces as 'recitations' precluded them having a tune.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 11:54 AM

I'm sure it normally means they aren't sung, but of course it doesn't mean they can't be sung. As I said, I am going to mark these "recitation" in the list, but not remove them from the list. So if anyone FINDS music to them, they'll still be there to be posted...

For example I KNOW I have heard Deck of Cards sung, and found a reference the other day to a sung version of three hapence a foot.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 03:23 PM

for example:

2325) A MICROSOFT CHRISTMAS - recitation - see 3532 Twas the night before Christmas

files updated as of 3:27 September 21, 2000

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 04:52 PM

FYI - I will be spending the next few days traveling and visiting the delightful Maryland Renaissance Festival (it's Pyrate weekend! yea!) and am not sure if I will be checking in before I leave. So will warn you now, I won't be doing any updates before monday, probably tuesday.

But if you have the tunes, send them! post them! deluge the forum with them! or my mailbox. (lpola@edutech.(spamfree)org) I'll get them where they should go, eventually.

Gotta go check out the TARDIS, make sure it's ready, so enjoy the weekend!

Just tried supersearch on the "no tune" search (which is humungous of course. it crapped out about 3 tunes shy of the complete list....

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Sep 00 - 08:26 PM

BONNIE BLACK HARE [ BLACKHAR Tunefile BLACKHAR.mid -Tune and text from The Constant Lovers (ed. Frank Purslow, EFDS Publications, 1972).  Collected by Dr. Gardiner;tune and first verse from Thomas Jones of Portsmouth, Hampshire, in 1907.  Remainder of text from a broadside in the Bodleian Collection.  In verse 5 line 3, somebody has changed "put his balls in her ear" to "his balls he put near", which is more sensible, if less amusing.  There's also another verse not given, which fits between verses 3 and 4:

"I think you are deceitful, young maid", he did say,
"My bonny black hare I am told pass'd this way;
And you have decoy'd me, I vow and declare,
You shall go with me for to hunt the black hare."

BONNY BLACK HARE (2) filename[ BLACKHR2  No source named, but it appears to be A.L. Lloyd's version, which Martin Carthy later recorded and, after him, Fairport Convention.  The final verse is a little different, though; Carthy had:

My powder is wasted and my bullets all gone
My ramrod is limp and I cannot fire on

The tune (almost certainly "adapted" by Lloyd) is very different from Thomas Jones'.  Midi made from Carthy's recording.

TWO BROTHERS filename[ TWOBROS  Transcribed from a Jean Redpath record.  It's been remarked that this version fits ROLLING OF THE STONES filename[ ROLLSTON; both tunes given with it, ROLLSTON.mid and ROLLSTON2.mid, are indeed close to Redpath's version, which she learned from Jeannie Robertson.  Midi made from the transcription in Jeannie Robertson: Emergent Singer, Transformative Voice (James Porter & Herschel Gower, 1995) with most of the gracenotes omitted.  Generally I leave decorations in, as it gives a better idea of the Source Singer's approach to interpretation, but I think that in this case it might have been a bit confusing for the casual listener.

THE UPS AND DOWNS filename[ UPSNDOWN  Text from the recording by Steeleye Span.  They got it from Marrowbones (Frank Purslow, EFDS, 1965); midi made from the notation in that book.  The song was collected by Dr. Gardiner from Mr. E. Frankham of Petersfield, Hampshire, in 1908.  Purslow remarks, "It has been suggested by James Reeves that the Ups and Downs represent the 69th. Foot Regiment, 69 being a number that reads the same when written upside down."

BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW AND GREEN filename[ BLWHYGR  From a recording by Roy Harris, with no indication as to what tune he may have used.  Midi made from a recording by Shirley Collins, who sung it to a version of The Black Joke, a Morris tune.  It should be noted that what looks like the second verse in the DT version is in fact the chorus.

RANTIN` ROVIN` ROBIN filename[ RRROBIN  No source named.  But for a few altered words, this is Robert Burns' poem, written in 1787 and set originally to the tune of Dainty Davie; see DAINTY DAVIE, filename[ DNTDAVE (DNTDAVE.mid).  According to John & Angus MacPherson (The Poetical Works of Robert Burns, date unknown) it was later more generally sung to Oh Gin Ye Were Dead, Gudeman.  I've made a midi of that from the notation in Burns: Poems & Songs (ed. James Kinsley, 1969), as an alternative.  Kinsley gives a final verse not in the DT file:

Guid faith quo' scho I doubt you Stir,
Ye'll gar the lasses lie aspar;
But twenty fauts ye may hae waur-
So blessins on thee, Robin.

It should be noted that what looks like the second verse in the DT is in fact the chorus.

In verse 2, "Oor Monarch's hindmost year but ane, Was five and twenty days begun'" refers to Jan. 25th 1759, the date of Burns' birth.

BONNY FARDAY filename[ BONFARDY  A version of Babylon (The Bonny Banks o Fordie, Child #14); the notes mention several sources, but this is the version noted by John Jacob Niles in 1932 from the singing of Preston Little (prompted by Roscoe Phipps) of Hazard, Kentucky, and published in The Ballad Book of John Jacob Niles (1961).  Two midis made made from the notation in that book; [a] melody line only, and [b] Niles' rather dramatic harmonisation.

THE SMART SCHOOLBOY filename[ FALSKNT5  Version collected by John Jacob Niles in 1935 from Preston Wolford at Dot, Va., USA, and published in The Ballad Book (1961).

WILLIE'S LADY filename[ WILILAD2  Presumably transcribed from Ray Fisher's recording.  The tune to which she set it, Son Ar Chiste, is at WILLIE'S LADY filename[ WILILADY, which is a transcription of Martin Carthy's English re-write (WILILADY.mid).  Ray Fisher's text, so far as I know, is a shortened re-write of the only text in Child; this came from Anna Brown (around 1783) with a melody transcribed by her nephew, whose musical theory wasn't much better than mine.  Midi made from Bronson's conjectural reading of it; the interpretation of the two trills is my own guess.  It's not an unattractive melody, but is only two lines long; the repetition involved in singing the whole ballad to it would bore the modern listener quite quickly, so I can see why Ray Fisher would set it to a longer, more dramatic tune, not dis-similar in essence but more developed.  Bronson thought that it was probably sung with an interleaved refrain (Mrs. Brown & the Ballad, California Folklore Quarterly, vol.IV, no.2 [1945]), but there is no record of any.

FLOWERS IN THE VALLEY filename[ FINEFLW2  Taken from a record by Finbar and Eddie Furey, who have garbled the lyrics so badly that the song doesn't make very much sense.  Of course, they may have learnt it that way.  There may be traditional Irish versions for all I know, but this one looks as if it derives from the version that Baring Gould found in Cornwall, and published (in A Garland of Country Song, 1895) set to a tune that he had heard Mr. Gilbert of The Falcon Inn at Mawgan in Pyder, Cornwall, sing to a different -though perhaps related- song.  This is the tune that the Fureys use, though they have loosened the rhythm quite a bit.  I've made a midi from Baring Gould's transcription, and will post the full text he gives in a separate thread.  The transcriber of the DT text has laid out the stanzas in a way that gives little indication of where the refrain (not chorus in this case) goes; see  Flowers in the Valley  for clarification.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 26 Sep 00 - 11:18 AM

Thanks Malcolm!

both "no tune" and "found tune" files updated as of today.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 26 Sep 00 - 12:32 PM

2017) LAMOILLE RIVER - midi by john_in_brisbane, sent to joe

1243) FROM WAY UP HERE - midi by John In Brisbane, sent to joe

1340) GOING DOWN THE ROAD FEELING BAD - midi done by John-In-Brisbane, sent to Joe

files updated.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 26 Sep 00 - 08:06 PM

"The Birks of Abergeldie" as the tune for "How can I keep my maidenhead" is one of three tune directions that are wrong in 'The Merry Muses of Caledonia' (see 'Merry Muses tunes' in Scarce Songs 2 on my website). The proper tune is "How can I keep my maidenhead", later called "Lennox love to Blantyre", of which ABCs of two early copies are given in file S2.HTM on my website. I don't have a copy of the 1736 printing of "How can I keep my maidenhead". Here's a later copy:

X:1
T:How can I keep my maidenhead?
S:Vicker's MS, c 1772
Q:1/4=120
L:1/8
M:C|
K:F
F/F/F FG A3/2G/FA|G3/2F/GA d3/2c/df|\
F/F/F FG A3/2G/FA|G3/2F/GA D/D/D D2::\
cdfg a3/2g/fa|gfga f3/2e/df|cdfg agfa|gf g/a/b g2 f2:|]

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 26 Sep 00 - 09:38 PM

THANK YOU!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: NightWing
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 01:18 PM

Is the list of songs without tunes posted somewhere on the 'Cat?

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 01:44 PM

no. (because it is huge, but constantly changing) however, if you personal message an e-mail address to me (MMario) or e-mail me ([e-mail]) I will send you the "no tune" list, and additionaly (if you want it) the "found tune" list.

HINT: the above applies to anyone.

I will point out that even if you cannot create a midi file or an ABC file, if you possess the music and can scan or copy the music and e-mail or snail-mail the dots to some one who CAN it amounts to the same thing

also - if you know the tune to some obscure song, but don't write music, perhaps you can find someone who can transcribe by ear.

or you can spend some time searching the forum database to see if the tune has already been posted but is "lost"

or you could web search for an existing abc or midi file, or a gif that is already posted out on the web

see? lotsa ways to help.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 05:55 PM

refresh. How much longer do the Olympics go?

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 28 Sep 00 - 12:19 AM

Drat! In my post above that should be Vickers' MS.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Sep 00 - 08:56 PM

More midis to go to Alan after the Olympics:

THE PAINFUL PLOUGH filename[ PAINPLOW  Text transcribed from a record by Louis Killen; no mention made of his source.  There is, however, a set of the song in The Painful Plough (Roy Palmer, Cambridge University Press, 1972) which is textually close enough for it to be reasonable to suppose that the tune is close, too; I've made a midi of that.  Palmer took it from English Folk-Songs (W.A. Barrett, 1891). His final two verses are different from Killen's:

Behold the wealthy merchant that trades in foreign seas,
And brings forth gold and treasure for those that live at ease,
With finest silks and spices, and fruits and dainties too,
They are brought from the Indies by virtue of the plough.

For they must have bread, biscuit, rice pudding, flour and peas,
To feed the jolly sailors as they sail o'er the seas,
Yet ev'ry man that brings them here will own to what is true-
He cannot sail the ocean without the painful plough.

AN ACRE OF LAND filename[ ACRELAND  The note in the DT describes this as the version that Ralph Vaughan Williams had from Frank Bailey (of Coombe Bissett, Wiltshire), in 1904.  The verses certainly are, but Bailey's refrain, There goes this ivery has been changed to Ivy, sing Ivery somewhere along the line.  Midi made from Bailey's tune as given in Bushes & Briars, ed. Roy Palmer, 1983/1999.  The DT file gives the song Child number #46 (Captain Wedderburn's Courtship), which is wrong; it should be #2 (The Elfin Knight).

THE HIELAND LADDIE filename[ HIELNLAD  This is the song on which Burns based his As I came o'er the Cairney Mount, and is set to a tune called As I came o'er the Cairney Mount or The Highland Lassie.  Midi made from the notation in Burns: Poems and Songs (James Kinsley, 1969).  There is a final verse not given in the DT:

But our ammunition being spent,
And we quite out of breath an' sweating,
We did agree with ae consent,
To fight it out at our next meeting.

It would appear that HIELAND LADDIE filename[ GLASGPG3 is also sung to this tune, though it should be noted that Jean Redpath has a different melody, which again fits both, and which she says comes from the Orpheus Caledonius (Thomson, 1725).

HUSH YE MY BAIRNIE filename[ HUSHYEB  Taken from a record by Gordon Bok; no source is named, which is a pity as it's the English language version, written by Malcolm MacFarlane, of the Scots Gaelic song Cagaran Gaolach.  A few mistakes have crept in, either on Mr. Bok's part or on that of the transcriber.  In verse 1, "Lift me a coney a goat and a wether" should be "Lift me a coo, and a goat, and a wether"; in verse two, "Bonny wee laddie" should be "Bonny wee lammie; verse 3 has been muddled up and the rhymes lost; MacFarlane's original reads:

Hush ye, my bairnie, my bonnie wee dearie;
Sleep! come and close the een, heavy and wearie;
Closed are the wearie een, rest are ye takin'-
Soun' be yer sleepin', and bright be yer wakin'.

Some other changes have been made, presumably because Mr. Bok didn't feel comfortable with the Scots expressions; this is fair enough where the sense is not compromised, so I don't feel any great need to point them out.  I should point out that MacFarlane's version is not a literal translation of the Gaelic.  See also CAGARAN GAOLACH filename[ CAGARAN, which does give a translation, though there are a few differences between the Scottish text and this one, which is a less complete Cape Breton variant.  I'm not sure whether or not someone has made a midi for the latter (or indeed whether the tune is the same, though I would imagine that it is), so I've done one anyway, from the notation in Moffat's Minstrelsy of the Scottish Highlands.  

I WOULD THAT THE WARS WERE ALL DONE filename[ WARDONE  Collected by Sabine Baring Gould and published in A Garland of Country Song, 1895.  Midi made from the notation in that book.  The DT text is taken from a record by Roy Harris, and omits the second verse (which Harris presumably did not sing):

"Oh violet, in-vi'late, the oath it may prove,
My lover swore to me, when in the green grove;
In France and in Flanders are maidens as well,
Will Robin prove fickle and false to his Nell?

AGHADOE filename[ AGHADOE  Verses by John Todhunter; I don't know whether or not he wrote the tune.  Midi made from the notation in A.P. Graves' Irish Songbook, 1922 edition.  The DT set has its "glens" mixed up with its "glades", and its "secrets" with its "silents", and, more importantly, should read, not "Where I hid", but "Where I hid him.


Cross-references:

ALL UNDER THE LEAVES filename[ SVNVIRG2  No source named, so we may never know what tune this version was sung to, but see a close enough version, SEVEN VIRGINS (The Leaves Of Life) filename[ SVNVIRG, which has a tune, SVNVIRG.mid, which will have to serve.

ANGUS HEMPSTEAD filename[ ANGUSHEM  is a parody of A fair maid walking all in her garden; unless somebody comes up with the precise tune used by Grit Laskin, the midi Snuffy made for FAIR MAID WALKING filename[ JREILLY5 will have to do.  By the way, Snuffy; you indicate the tempo as Q:1/4=120; isn't that a little fast?  The very similar version collected by the Hammond brothers 1n Dorset in the same year (1906)is a lot slower.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:38 AM

Malcolm

I copied A Fair Maid Walking from O'Shaughnessey's "21 Lincolnshire Folksongs collected by Percy Grainger" (or similar title - I'm at work, and can't check). I can't remember if there is a tempo given with the tune in the book.

I have noticed that in certain circumstances a Q: setting that produces acceptable results in Abc2Win, produces an extremely slow midi when converted by Abc2Midi. So it's then a case of increasing the Q: until the midi plays at the same speed as the original ABC - perhaps that's what happened here, and I never reset Q: to its original value before posting.

I'll let you know tonight when I get home.

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Snuffy
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:28 PM

Malcolm

O'Shaughnessey (or ist Grainger) doesn't give a metronome marking, merely "Sprightly".

Never having heard anyone sing it, I probably thought 120 was about sprightly enough. What do you think?

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 03:32 PM

1708) I'M CALLED LITTLE CAROLINE - posted by snuffy to thread 23672 9/28

2550) OF ALL THE BIRDS - posted by snuffy to thread 23672 9/28

3044) SAILOR'S PRAYER - posted by snuffy to thread 23672 9/28

files updated as of 9/29

Note: John in Brisbane sent me some midi's I have to send forward. will update as soon as I can.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 04:43 PM

919) DORAN'S ASS - mid by john in brisbane sent to joe 9/29

3529) TURTLE DOVE -midi from john in brisbane sent to joe

3811) THE WOMEN ARE WORSE THAN THE MEN - midi from john in brisbane sent to joe

files updated.

about 2851 to go - it is beginning to get a bit more difficult. the help of any willing gratefully accepted.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 05:23 PM

BTW - DT has now been sent all but 20 of the texts for the Child Ballads - so if anyone wants to enter all the Bronson (spelling?) tunes, feel free! *grin*

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:22 PM

Snuffy:

Blessed if I know.  I'd go for 100, personally, but I've no particularly good reason apart from comparison with other versions, which of course proves nothing!   Just curious, really; thanks for checking.

MMario: I've been trawling through that file, too, but have only got 1/3 of the way; have you been able to proofread it?  Nightmare stuff, some of it, particularly the bits with Thorns...

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:31 PM

I haven't been able to proof it, but the original file suppossedly had been proofed a number of times, though not "final" proof. So I figure it is reasonably good. I have no access to hardcopy, so I really can't proof it. Had to be satisfied with getting it into a readable form.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:19 AM

We'll have to compare notes at some point; I can get to the books in the library (at times).

Meanwhile, I have found a tune for THE WHITE FISHER, Filename [WHITFISH, and have posted abc and text to this thread:  The White Fisher  A midi will go to Alan.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 08:44 PM

More:

FOX WENT OUT (Den-O) filename[ FOXOUT5  Sorcha has posted an .abc of a tune for this song, and Snuffy has now added the version sung by The Young Tradition, with words.  Both tunes seem to be related, but since this particular text is the Copper Family version, I've made a midi from the notation given in Bob Copper's book Early To Rise (1976).  Copyright Coppersongs 1976.

WI' MY DOG AND GUN filename[ DOGNGUN  This is more usually called The Mountain Streams Where The Moorcocks Crow.  Though I've only heard a very brief clip of the Silly Wizard version from which this text was taken (from So Many Partings), they seem to have used pretty much the usual Scottish tune, so I've made a midi from the version notated in John Brune's Roving Songster (1965), which has an almost identical text, bar a few minor differences; this will serve until somebody comes up with a transcription from the record.  There are a couple of mistakes in the DT transcription:  "you'll find my swelling" should of course be "you'll find my dwelling", and "...their so so sweetly" ought to be "...their song so sweetly.  There are also a few odd changes from the usual versions:  "I loved a robber" is usually "I loved a rover"; "lenties" is usually "linnets"; "millcocks" is usually "moorcocks".  The DT notes don't say where this version came from, but a quick search of the web reveals that Andy M. Stewart learnt it from older members of his family, who used to sing it a lot.

WHEN I WAS A YOUNG MAN (2) filename[ WHNYNGM2  Though the DT entry gives no source, this is the version that Martin Carthy got from the Duncan collection of songs from N.E. Scotland, and recorded on Shearwater (Peg Records PEG12, 1972, re-issued on Mooncrest CRESTCD 008, 1991).  A number of people have learnt it from Carthy and subsequently recorded it, Oisín amongst them.  Midi made from Carthy's recording.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 06:38 AM

MMario, did you get Rossa's Farewell to Dublin (or did it exist)? Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 01:39 PM

yes I did. I annotated the file and sent the midi on.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 12:18 PM

3613) WATERCRESS-O - posted by snuffy to threads 23672 9/30

files updated.

Malcolm - let me know when you have shipped the backlogged midi's off to Alan. okay? Thanks!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 04:33 PM

I've just sent them: 30 in all.  I suppose now I'd better get back to the difficult ones....

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 04:47 PM

okay - phoaks....all them songs Malcolm has been posting, consider them updated in the files.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 05:00 PM

BTW - those midis he sent (from the Olympic hiatus) include but are not limited to #'s 6, 6, 356, 435, 554, 983, 1527, 1613, 1688, 2201, 2392, 2393, 2659, 2707, 2831, 2893, 3185, 3566, 3775.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: GUEST,Pam
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 05:02 PM

Looking for the Tune "Little Mary Peggins" I think that is the name. My Gransfather sang it to me. It's about Mary who went to the pencil factory to get her pay, not once did the poor child know that she was going to die." Help.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 05:41 PM

Hi, Pam.  I'm afraid you've asked your question in completely the wrong place; this thread is for identifying tunes that go with songs that are in the Database without tunes.  Usually it's best to start a new thread for a request like yours, with the name of the song in its title; put in a BIG thread like this, it might never get noticed.  However, you're in luck this time: the words are in the Database.  Click here:  Mary Fagan  -No tune, I'm afraid!  Actually, I think she spelled her name Phagan; there are a lot of references to her famous murder on the Web.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 09:58 AM

679) COLLIER LASS posted by snuffy to thread 23672

956) DUBLIN FUSILIERS - posted by snuffy to thread 23672

1891) JOHNSON'S MOTOR GAR -posted by snuffy to thread 23672

files updated

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:19 PM

Clear away the Morning Dew = Blow away the Morning dew =tunefile [Blowdew

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: MMario
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:22 PM

goto part IV go directly to part iv

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 31 Oct 00 - 12:53 AM

G'day,
The following tunes (see Malcolm's post above, 28 Sept 00) are now available at the Mudcat MIDI site.

AN ACRE OF LAND
AGHADOE
BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW AND GREEN
BONNY FARDAY
CALLER HERRIN'
FLOWERS IN THE VALLEY
FOX WENT OUT (Den-O)
RANTIN` ROVIN` ROBIN
THE HIELAND LADDIE
HUSH YE MY BAIRNIE
WHEN I WAS A YOUNG MAN
I WOULD THAT THE WARS WERE ALL DONE
LAND O' THE LEAL
LUDGIN' WI' BIG AGGIE
THE MOWER
MOWING THE BARLEY
ONE MAN SHALL MOW MY MEADOW
THE PAINFUL PLOUGH
PRINCE CHARLIE STUART
THE SMART SCHOOLBOY
TWO BROTHERS
THE UPS AND DOWNS
WHITE FISHER
THE WHUMMIL BORE
WILLIE'S LADY
WI' MY DOG AND GUN
EAT WORMS

Cheers,
Alan