Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Phil Cooper Date: 30 May 07 - 06:13 PM Tom Rapp's Fourth Day of July is great. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,'Ray Bucknell Date: 30 May 07 - 07:23 PM Phil Och's "Is There Anybody Here" (who'd like to change his clothes into a uniform....); Fred Hellerman's "Business Goes On as Usual"; Tom Paxton's "Born on the Fourth of July." |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,Mike B. Date: 31 May 07 - 07:07 PM DRAFT DODGER RAG (Phil Ochs) I'm just a typical American boy from a typical American town I believe in God and Senator Todd and keeping old Castro down ... I believe it was actually 'Senator Dodd', referring to Thomas Dodd of Connecticut. Ironically, he's the father of current Sen. Chris Dodd who's running for the Democratic presidential nomination as an outspoken opponent of Bush's Iraq war policies. Other Vietnam protest songs - Pete Seeger's "Waste Deep In The Big Muddy", Tom Paxton's "Lyndon Johnson Told The Nation", Ochs' "The War Is Over." On the opposite (pro-war) side - Merle Haggard's "Okie From Muskogee" and "The Fightin' Side Of Me", Barry Sadler's "Ballad of the Green Berets." Not sure if Dylan wrote anything specifically addressing Vietnam - may have been done with protest music before US involvement there became a hugely divisive national issue. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 31 May 07 - 11:06 PM I mentioned the late JB Lenoir's Vietnam Blues previously in this thread. Here are the lyrics ... I think this song says it all. "Vietnam Vietnam, everybody cryin' about Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam, everybody cryin' about Vietnam The law all the days (?) killing me down in Mississippi, nobody seems to give a damn Oh God if you can hear my prayer now, please help my brothers over in Vietnam Oh God if you can hear my prayer now, please help my brothers over in Vietnam The poor boys fightin', killin' and hidin' all in holes, Maybe killin' their own brother, they do not know Mister President you always cry about peace, but you must clean up your house before you leave Oh how you cry about peace, but you must clean up your house before you leave How can you tell the world how we need peace, and you still mistreat and killin' poor me." biLL |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Leadfingers Date: 31 May 07 - 11:55 PM And dont forget that Tom Lehrer has already warned us that if we want any World War Three songs ,to start writng them before it starts , cos there sure as hell wont be time once it starts . |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,Mike B. Date: 01 Jun 07 - 12:46 AM Neglected to mention this one when I posted earlier - SAIGON BRIDE Music by Joan Baez, Lyrics by Nina Duscheck Farewell my wistful Saigon bride I'm going out to stem the tide A tide that never saw the seas It flows through jungles, round the trees Some say it's yellow, some say red It will not matter when we're dead How many dead men will it take To build a dike that will not break? How many children must we kill Before we make the waves stand still? Though miracles come high today We have the wherewithal to pay It takes them off the streets you know To places they would never go alone It gives them useful trades The lucky boys are even paid Men die to build their Pharoah's tombs And still and still the teeming wombs How many men to conquer Mars How many dead to reach the stars? Farewell my wistful Saigon bride I'm going out to stem the tide A tide that never saw the seas It flows through jungles, round the trees Some say it's yellow, some say red It will not matter when we're dead |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Jun 07 - 09:03 PM Oh, the memories! Words by Charlie Ipcar, © 1972 Tune: inspired by Bob Dylan's "Maggie's Farm" Draft Dodger's Farewell Dm-------C-------Dm-------------C-----Dm I'm leaving Monday morning, headed for the North, -----------------C----Dm-------------------C-------Dm 'Long a road I've often traveled, while tripping back and forth; ------------C------Dm----------------C-------Dm I'll cross the old St. Lawrence, roll on to Mon-tre-al F------Dm-F------Dm-------------C---Dm There I plan to settle down, give 'em all a call. Chorus: F-------------------------Dm---------------C--Dm Don't want my draft board to worry 'bout me any more, more, more, -----------------------------------------C-------Dm Don't want my draft board to worry 'bout me any more; Dm---------F---------------------Dm----------------C----Dm Don't want my draft board to worry 'bout me any more, more, more, ------------F-----------------------C-----------Dm Don't want my draft board to worry 'bout me any more! Now my draft board's very busy, they work both day and night, They need warm bodies for our mighty nation's fight, Well, my body's cold and shivering when I think of all they do, So I'm leaving Monday morning, gonna leave this song with you. (CHO) I saw the recruiting sergeant, I asked him for advice, He said, "The Peace Corps full of Commies, son, I'll find you something nice; Right here on this dotted line your name you must sign, Don't ask me where you're going, I just know your luck is fine!" (CHO) "Sit right down," the doctor said, "Tell me all the news; Do you love your mammie? Did you ever have the blues? Tell me all about yourself, how you live your life, Did you ever wet the bed, and why don't you have a wife." (CHO) "Now listen, Doc, I had a dream just the other day, I dreamed that I was a spy for the CIA; Our President, he says to me, 'You's gonna need both fists, For I'm sending you down to Lansing town to look for Communists!'" (CHO) "I walked into a tavern there, stepped up to the bar, My steel-trap mind could tell that there was trouble not too far, Then the whole place exploded, there was Commies everywhere, I said, 'I'm from the CIA!' They didn't seem to care." (CHO) "Get your pad," nurse, the doctor said, "I think this boy's insane; Evil spirits have infused the soft spots in his brain; He's obviously insecure, I bet he sucks his thumb; He's an unpatriotic, no-good, bearded, rotten bum. So I'm leaving Monday morning, heading for the North, 'Long a road I've often traveled, while tripping back and forth; I'll cross the old St. Lawrence, roll on to Montreal There I plan to settle down, give 'em all a call. Chorus: Don't want my draft board to worry 'bout me any more, more, more, Don't want my draft board to worry 'bout me any more; Don't want my draft board to worry 'bout me any more, more, more, Don't want my draft board to worry 'bout me any more! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: katlaughing Date: 02 Jun 07 - 12:26 AM Well done, Charley!! |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: artbrooks Date: 02 Jun 07 - 07:24 AM Now, while not precisely anti-war (and we sang/played the others as well) this one by the Animals has to be the definitive anthem for those of us who were in Korea or Vietman at the time (me, 1969 and 1971, respectively). Hearing 100 drunk soldiers singing along with a Korean girl-band on the chorus was a definite experience. WE GOTTA GET OUT OF THIS PLACE (Weil/Mann) In this dirty old part of the city Where the sun refused to shine People tell me there ain't no use in tryin' Now my girl you're so young and pretty And one thing I know is true You'll be dead before your time is due, I know Watch my daddy in bed a-dyin' Watched his hair been turnin' grey He's been workin' and slavin' his life away Oh yes I know it (Yeah!) He's been workin' so hard (Yeah!) I've been workin' too, baby (Yeah!) Every night and day (Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!) We gotta get out of this place If it's the last thing we ever do We gotta get out of this place 'cause girl, there's a better life for me and you Now my girl you're so young and pretty And one thing I know is true, yeah You'll be dead before your time is due, I know it Watch my daddy in bed a-dyin' Watched his hair been turnin' grey, yeah He's been workin' and slavin' his life away I know he's been workin' so hard (Yeah!) I've been workin' too, baby (Yeah!) Every day baby (Yeah!) Whoa! (Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!) We gotta get out of this place If it's the last thing we ever do We gotta get out of this place Girl, there's a better life for me and you Somewhere baby, somehow I know it We gotta get out of this place If it's the last thing we ever do We gotta get out of this place Girl, there's a better life for me and you Believe me baby I know it baby You know it too |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,an Old Grunt Date: 21 Jun 07 - 12:13 PM As a combat veteran of the war, I'm surpirsed that no one has listed John Prine's "The Ballad of Sam Stone" The Ballad Of Sam Stone * (John Prine) Chorus: There's a hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes Jesus Christ died for nothing, I suppose Little pitchers have big ears, don't stop to count the years Sweet songs never last too long on broken radios Sam Stone came home to his wife and family After serving in the conflict overseas And the time he had served had shattered all his nerves And left a little shrapnel in his knee But morphine eased the pain, and the grass grew round his brain And gave him all the confidence he lacked With a Purple Heart, and a monkey on his back Sam Stone's welcome home didn't last too long He went to work when he'd spent his last dime So Sam took to stealing when he got that empty feeling For a hundred-dollar habit, without overtime But the gold flowed through his veins like a thousand railroad trains And eased his mind in the hours that he chose While his kids ran round wearing other people's clothes Sam Stone was alone when he popped his last balloon Climbing walls while sitting in a chair And he played his last request while the room just smelled like death With an overdose hovering in the air You see, life had lost its fun, there was nothing to be done But trade his house he'd borrowed on the G.I. bill For a flag-draped casket on the local heroes' hill |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: eddie1 Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:52 PM "Grey October" was written by Peggy Seeger and IIRC, Jack Warshaw, in 1966 after the Aberfan disaster. It compares, verse by verse, Aberfan with a primary school in Thuy Dan in Vietnam, bombed by US planes on the same day. The last two verses: "Tears are shed for Glamorgan children And the world mourns Aberfan But who will weep for the murdered children Beneath the rubble of Thuy Dan. Grey October in Glamorgan Warm October In Vietnam Where children die and we stand by And shake the killer by the hand." I still find this song difficult to sing for thinking of the children from both places. Eddie |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: EuGene Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:15 PM Old Grunt: "Peace" printed the "Sam Stone" lyrics in post #17 to this thread (23 Nov '04). Artbrooks: Yeah, man, we would often sing "We Gotta Get Out Of This Place" and "Where Have All The Flowers Gone?" as we walked through the jungle and rice paddies - the whole 100+ man Infantry company would be singing real low and quiet-like. There was some anti-war, anti-military stuff in "Alice's Restaurant" as they were sittin' there on Bench W going through all that draftee stuff while playing with the pencils. Eu |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,mike_in_st_c (at work) Date: 21 Jun 07 - 08:58 PM Here's one I remember... (please excuse the poor line breaks.. Oh your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war Now Jesus don't like killin' No matter what the reason's for And your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore. Mike |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: oldhippie Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:07 PM yep, John Prine. And the words work as well today as they did in Vietnam. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: mrdux Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:09 AM I'm sorta surprised no one's mentioned Phil Ochs' I Ain't Marching Anymore. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,Rog Peek Date: 22 Jun 07 - 06:39 AM 'I Ain't Marching Anymore' Anti war, not specifically Vietnam. I posted it here: thread.cfm?threadid=102569&messages=13 |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,geegee Date: 04 May 12 - 11:10 PM there was song I can't remember it... the lyrics were "it was on a hill, they said, it was in action, that my boy was killed.. walking to my door thinking to myself." thats all i can remember I have search and search for that song... ANY one know? |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Stewie Date: 05 May 12 - 09:08 PM I don't believe this set has been mentioned. Expensive, but comprehensive: Next Stop Is Vietnam. --Stewie. |
Subject: RE: LYR ADD-Concerning a conscript's death in Vie From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 14 Nov 20 - 04:14 AM Conscription in Australia In 1964 compulsory national service for 20-year-old males was introduced under the National Service Act 1964. The selection of conscripts was made by a sortition or lottery draw based on date of birth, and conscripts were obligated to give two years' continuous full-time service, followed by a further three years on the active reserve list. The full-time service requirement was reduced to 18 months in October 1971. The Defence Act was amended May 1964 to provide that national servicemen could be obliged to serve overseas, a provision that had been applied only once before, during World War II ... During the late 1960s, domestic opposition to the Vietnam War and conscription grew in Australia. (read on) Concerning a Conscript's Death in Vietnam, Singabout, Journal of Australian Folksong 6(1), 1966, page 19 Another anonymous contribution that arrived in the form of a broadside from Melbourne Come all you Sons and Daughters of this rich wide Land, Lift up your voices and lift up your Hands, They are selling this country to America and then, They are sealing the Bargain with conscripted men. The first Australian Conscript is barely one day dead, When H.M.A.S. Sydney goes sailing through The Heads, With four hundred more, four hundred more, To murder and be murdered for the Madmen who want War. We did not know the dead Man, We knew he once drew Breath We know Nobody's Freedom was paid for with his Death, And how many more, how many more, Will murder and be murdered for the Madmen who want War? There's a Man with a Smile who Sympathy extends, To all the grieving Relatives and all the grieving Friends, In this Nation's highest interest, he says the Conscript died, We are shamed by his Death, We are shamed by the Man who died. Errol Wayne Noack, 24th May 1966 HMAS Sydney was based at Garden Island Naval Base in Sydney & made 25 voyages to Vietnam between 1965 and 1972. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Geordie-Peorgie Date: 15 Nov 20 - 12:39 PM Tom Paxton’s “Jimmy Newman”! |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 15 Nov 20 - 02:29 PM In the DT https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=3572 I Got a Letter from LBJ Sincerely, Gargoyle I collected most of the cards they had to offer: 1-A, 1-H, 2-S, 4-F |
Subject: RE: LYR ADD - OLD HO CHI MINH From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 15 Nov 20 - 10:05 PM from Singabout, Journal of Australian Folksong 6(1), 1966, page 18 OLD HO CHI MINH (John Dengate) A new song sent in by John Dengate who says it is sung to the tune of Frankie and Johnnie. Take your Armalite rifles, take your poison gas, Take your napalm rockets and stick them in your trash, Old Ho Chi Minh, he knows he's going to win. Remember when Indo China used to belong to France, The Foreign Legion fought for its life, but it didn't stand Buckley's chance, At Den Bien Phu, and you know its true. Yanks say 'Heavens to Betsy, Reds are at it again, Must save South Vietnam, send three quarters of a million men.' Old Ho Chi Minh, he's got a big wide grin. You can hammer away at Hanoi, he's ready to pay the price, Because he knows a Saigon prostitute's no substitute for rice - Takes it on the chin, does Ho Chi Minh. Air Marshal Ky is righteous, Air Marshal Ky is good, Air Marshal Ky can fly away and the Buddhists wish he would, And at Da Nang, that's the song they sang. Don't hold a demonstration, don't start an awful din, Don't sing disloyal disruptive songs in praise of awful Ho Chi Minh, And don't deplore, Vietnam's lovely war. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 16 Nov 20 - 08:49 AM I've just been told by John's old mate Old Ho Chi Minh was written by John Dengate who had supplied a few other songs in the same issue of Singabout. The original second line went: Take your napalm rockets and shove them them right up your ... er ... shirt. The fourth verse finishes with: Takes (not Take) it on the chin ... or the second line could have been "stick ‘em up your arse" according to his wife, or more likely, different versions were sung at different times! sandra |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,CJB666 Date: 16 Nov 20 - 01:44 PM All You Need Is Love - Songs of War and Protest - Charles Chilton 11. "Go Down, Moses!: Songs of War and Protest" "My Country, 'Tis of Thee", "Yankee Doodle", "Dixie", Presidential Campaign of 1840, "Land of Hope and Glory", Songs of Freedom, "The Battle Hymn of Lt. Calley", "The Killers That Run the Other Countries", Hollywood blacklist, People's Songs, Hootenanny (US TV series) Leonard Cohen, Pete Seeger, Arlo Guthrie, Vera Brodsky Lawrence, Yip Harburg, Bing Crosby, Glenn Miller, Vera Lynn, The Andrews Sisters, Woody Guthrie, The Weavers, Bob Dylan, The Kingston Trio, Peter, Paul and Mary, Leon Rosselson, Joan Baez, Country Joe McDonald, John Marshall, James Simmons, Ireland's Freemen (Viewer discretion at end during Pete Seeger's last song "A Hard Day's Rain is Gonna Fall") ==== Download link: https://chrisjb-seedbucket.cloud.seedboxes.cc/api/share/DAI7rOEcWXxr8XDnguUX ==== |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,CJB666 Date: 16 Nov 20 - 01:50 PM Folks might not know that the Critics Group, under the leadership of Ewan MacColl and Charles Parker, produced a series of 6 BBC Radio Ballads about the experiences of American black soldiers in the Vietnam War. They were never aired on the BBC. Only one has survived - "Off Limits - #2" The ABC in Australia aired it recently. The versions are here: http://www.mediafire.com/folder/3uzbdkw1ifxji/Radio+Ballad+-+Off++Limits+2+(Blacks+in+Vietnam+War) ==== |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: voyager Date: 16 Nov 20 - 03:54 PM Jimi got it right - Machine Gun Live at the Fillmore (1970) Jimi Hendrix voyager |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: John P Date: 16 Nov 20 - 08:06 PM Ohio by Neil Young 3-5-0-0 from Hair I've heard a theory that "It Ain't Me Babe" by Bob Dylan was written as an anti-war song to America. It almost makes sense that way than as an anti-love song. Those were the days of those great sentiments "America - Love it or Leave It" and "My Country - Right or Wrong". |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 16 Nov 20 - 08:41 PM Listed through world catalogue is a 100 song paperback collection published by Sing Out in 1969. ABE sells them used for about 16.00 usd. The table of contents is worth a brief stroll down memory lane. Sincerely, Gargoyle World cat jumped into every search yesterday...today I cannot dredge it up with a pitch-fork. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,. Date: 16 Nov 20 - 08:54 PM It is not my genre....but... http://peacehistory-usfp.org/protest-music-vietnam-war/ |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Georgiansilver Date: 17 Nov 20 - 09:16 AM I believe this song came about in that era. https://youtu.be/SRVLbjzWGF8 |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,henryp Date: 17 Nov 20 - 11:18 AM From: Eric the Viking Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:04 PM Try Some Donovan songs, Ballad of a crystal man,The war drags on. There were some others. He also did one by Buffy St Marie-can't remember title. That was Universal Soldier, from 1964. Sainte-Marie said: "I wrote 'Universal Soldier' in the basement of The Purple Onion coffee house in Toronto in the early sixties. It's about individual responsibility for war and how the old feudal thinking kills us all." In 1965, Jan Berry of Jan and Dean released as a single an answer song presenting the opposite point of view, titled "The Universal Coward", which criticized anti-war protesters. Dean Torrence objected and did not participate. (Wikipedia) Soldier Blue is a 1970 American Revisionist Western film directed by Ralph Nelson. Nelson and Gay intended to utilize the narrative surrounding the Sand Creek massacre as an allegory for the contemporary Vietnam War. The title song, written and performed by Buffy Sainte-Marie, was released as a single and became a top ten hit in the UK as well as other countries in Europe and Japan during the summer of 1971. (Wikipedia) The B-side was Moratorium (Bring Our Brothers Home), which she performed on BBC2 - it must have been the Old Grey Whistle Test; Corporal Thomas McCann is a three year marine Someone told him he'd better join up It would would make him a man He came home and to the park he went And he sat down on a bench And a dungaree girl told him he'd been a man all along And he looked at the sign that she carried in her hand It said, "Fuck the war and bring our brothers home" And Corporal McCann he looks into her eyes And I believe that he's begun to understand |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: rich-joy Date: 17 Nov 20 - 05:50 PM Guest, henryp : Thanks for that reference re Jan Berry's "The Universal Coward" - never heard it before - thankfully, (esp. with lines like "The mighty USA has got to be the Watchdog of the World") ...... It is sadly, IMHO, a pretty crappy effort all round ...... R-J |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,henryp Date: 19 Nov 20 - 02:38 PM Universal Soldier appeared on It's My Way!, Buffy St Marie's first album, released by Vanguard Records in April 1964. It must have been an early - perhaps the very first - song to have been directly inspired by US participation in the Vietnam war. “I had been traveling from Mexico to Toronto and had a layover in San Francisco,” recalls Sainte-Marie. “In the middle of the night a group of medics came into the airport wheeling wounded soldiers and we got to talking. I asked one of them if there really was a war in Vietnam because the politicians at home were saying there wasn’t one. The medics assured me there was indeed a huge war going on. I started writing the song in the airport and on the plane, and I finished it in the basement of the Purple Onion in Toronto.” Timeline; By 1964, 23,000 US advisors were stationed in South Vietnam. In the Gulf of Tonkin incident in August, a U.S. destroyer was alleged to have clashed with North Vietnamese fast attack craft. Shortly before midnight on August 4, Johnson interrupted national television to make an announcement in which he described an attack by North Vietnamese vessels on two U.S. Navy warships, Maddox and Turner Joy, and requested authority to undertake a military response. The U.S. Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and gave President Lyndon B. Johnson broad authority to increase American military presence in Vietnam. Johnson ordered the deployment of combat units for the first time and increased troop levels to 184,000. On 8 March 1965, two battalions of U.S. Marines waded ashore on the beaches at Danang. Those 3,500 soldiers were the first combat troops the United States had dispatched to South Vietnam to support the Saigon government. Thanks to Wikipedia. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GerryM Date: 19 Nov 20 - 04:25 PM Phil Ochs' Talking Vietnam Blues, mentioned earlier in this thread, also dates to 1964, though I don't know which month. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,henryp Date: 19 Nov 20 - 05:18 PM [Buffy St Marie] attended the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, where she studied philosophy (with an Asian focus) and education. She received a bachelor’s degree in 1962. Sainte-Marie began performing her songs in coffeehouses during her college years, and after graduation she moved to New York City to take part in the bohemian arts scene of Greenwich Village. (Britannica) Sainte-Marie wrote Universal Soldier in 1962, a time when people fretted over missile gaps. (buffysainte-marie.com/?p=809) The college vocal harmony group The Highwaymen were first to record The Universal Soldier in 1963. (They had already had a gold record in 1961 with Michael [Row The Boat Ashore].) (Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame) The Highwaymen ?– Universal Soldier / I'll Fly Away Label: United Artists Records ?– UA 647 Format: Vinyl, 7", 45 RPM, Single, Styrene, Mono Country: US Released: Sep 1963. (Discogs) In 1963, an obscure Louisiana-based country singer called Bob Necaise released ‘Mr. Where is Viet-Nam’. It was the first record made in the United States to allude to the Vietnam War in its title and highlighted that, according to opinion polls, most Americans paid little or no attention to the developing conflict in Indochina, which would consume their nation for 20 years. (History Today) However, the date of 1963 is disputed on http://www.45cat.com/record/nc712946us; MISTER, WHERE IS VIET NAM? w & m Robert Necaise. 2 p. © Robert Necaise; 10Jun71; EU259064. Definitely 1971, unless it was re-issued. Anyway the only copyright filings were in 1971. Nothing before that. One of the earliest notable protest songs of the JFK-era was published in the New York folk magazine Broadside on 20 September 1963, two months before Kennedy’s assassination. ‘Talkin Vietnam’ by Phil Ochs criticised the government for ‘training a million Vietnamese, to fight for the wrong government, and the American way’. It also attacked South Vietnam’s Catholic president Ngo Dinh Diem for his one family rule and suppression of the majority Buddhist population: ‘families that slay together, stay together’. However, songs that focussed solely on opposing the Vietnam conflict were uncommon until 1964. The turning point was the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. (History Today) |
Subject: ADD: I Don't Want Your Pardon (Tom Paxton) From: GUEST Date: 19 Nov 20 - 06:45 PM This song by Tom Paxton sprang to my mind. I Don't Want Your Pardon I don't want your pardon; I don't want your amnesty. Don't you smile with Christian sympathizing. Don't you tell me you're forgiving me. I am doing no apologizing. I didn't kill no children; I didn't burn no towns. I didn't leave no country nothing but craters. Those who did are your kind of good clean kids, While those of us who would not, you call traitors. So save your pardon for the ones who really need it. I'm not ashamed to do what I had to do. I'm the one who understands, had no blood upon my hands. Maybe someday soon we'll see about pardoning you. Hey, you think your forgiveness is everything on earth, Something so important that I'd pay plenty. Let me ask you: How much was it worth To pardon that old man in San Clemente? So save your pardon for the ones who really need it. I'm not ashamed to do what I had to do. I'm the one who understands, had no blood upon my hands. Maybe someday soon we'll see about pardoning you. I don't want your pardon; I don't want your amnesty. Don't you smile with Christian sympathizing. Don't you tell me you're forgiving me. I am doing no apologizing. Don't you tell me you're forgiving me. I am doing NO apologizing. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,henryp Date: 20 Nov 20 - 06:13 AM I Don't Want Your Pardon; Words and music by Tom Paxton, 1975 Notes: The song was originally published in "Come for to Sing" Magazine Vol. 7, No. 2 [Should be Vol. 2 No. 1 HP], but the chords given on the magazine were completely wrong. The magazine also said that "the song will be on Tom's next Private Stock album", while it didn't wind up on any album. It was performed at the famous "End of the War" celebration concert, which was organised by Phil Ochs on 11th May 1975 (https://ddpro.ucoz.com/tpchords/pardon.htm) In September 1974, President Gerald R. Ford offered an amnesty program for draft dodgers that required them to work in alternative service occupations for periods of six to 24 months. In 1977, one day after his inauguration, President Jimmy Carter fulfilled a campaign promise by offering pardons to anyone who had evaded the draft and requested one. (Wikipedia) |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,henryp Date: 20 Nov 20 - 06:32 AM “Alice’s Restaurant” had its radio premiere in February of 1967 on New York City’s WBAI-FM, in a live performance, and it almost immediately became a runaway hit. [Arlo] Guthrie spends Thanksgiving with Alice (of the restaurant), and then as a favor tries to drive her trash out to the dump, only to find that the dump is closed for Thanksgiving. So he dumps the trash in a garbage pile by the side of the road and is subsequently arrested for littering — which, when Guthrie comes before the draft board, is the reason the military cites for choosing not to draft him. “You want to know if I’m moral enough join the army, burn women / Kids, houses, and villages after being a litterbug,” drawls Guthrie, to which the sergeant replies, “Kid, we don’t like your kind.” (Vox) |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,I Signed Up for What? Date: 21 Nov 20 - 07:52 AM So many songs; a great nation created a great library of anti-war tunes and lyrics while the war went on and on for about 15 years. Makes me kind of think that maybe singing as a means to stop wars or to redirect other irrational expressions of power is either very weak or produces results at a snail's pace. Why didn't it work? How can we find a better way? I didn't raise my child to be a soldier. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Nov 20 - 08:29 PM I could never summon up any interest in this stuff. Who cares if some ineffectual fraction of a nation of mass murderers gets a minor attack of principles? Or if some of the killers get fucked up for life by participating? It's like one of those books that asks you to care about the abusive childhood of a serial killer. What I would have liked to hear about was what the people of south-east Asia had to say about their experience of decades of murder, destruction and degradation at the hands of the Americans. If these "protest" singers had had a scrap of principle they would have just shut the fuck up until the Vietnamese had got the chance to speak in their own voice. And that NEVER happened. Not one of those posers put their career second to the real issue. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: mg Date: 22 Nov 20 - 11:36 PM i care. i am one if the killers and i am fucked up for life. we are among you. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,henryp Date: 22 Nov 20 - 11:54 PM "If these "protest" singers had had a scrap of principle they would have just shut the fuck up until the Vietnamese had got the chance to speak in their own voice. And that NEVER happened." Well, you wouldn't have heard about it if it had. But I hope that you're excluding Soldier Blue from your criticism. Perhaps you didn't recognise the narrative surrounding the Sand Creek massacre as an allegory for the contemporary Vietnam War. And, of course, Buffy St Marie had a vision informed by her membership of an oppressed minority and by her degree in Eastern philosophy. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,Christopher Conder Date: 23 Nov 20 - 06:31 AM Another exception is 'political activist–folksinger' Barbara Dane (who I admit I'm not familiar with), who released a recording of North Vietnamese people and their songs in 1971. It's still available: https://folkways.si.edu/vietnam-will-win/historical-song-struggle-protest-world/music/album/smithsonian#:~:text=The%20Vietnam%20War%2C%20seen%20as,for%20most%20of%20the%20conflict. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Jeri Date: 23 Nov 20 - 09:57 AM Jack has redeeming qualities. it's very kind of him, that even though "I could never summon up any interest in this stuff", he still wrote two paragraphs. Unfortunately, I grew up in the USA, I know English, a teeny bit of French, and a smattering of a few other languages. No Vietnamese, though. Not other than "di di mao", anyway. But protest songs in Vietnamese? Who would have heard them? Who would have learned them and sung them? Were they North or South Vietnamese song? It was a stupid, stupid war. I'm not sure we haven't done something similar in Afghanistan, but there re no jungles there to hide in. I don't know if there are songs. I think that war might've started with a decent motivation. Vietnam was political grab-ass. It was about how scared we were of communism. The songs have probably been listed like mad already. It IS remarkable that this was the first 22 Nov I'm aware of that nobody mentioned Kennedy. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,henryp Date: 23 Nov 20 - 10:59 AM Buffy St Marie had communication covered too! See all the wonders that you leave behind The wonders humble people own I know a boy from a tribe so primitive He can call me up without no telephone See all the wonders that you leave behind Enshrined in some great hourglass The noble tongues, the noble languages Entombed in some great English class |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,henryp Date: 23 Nov 20 - 11:10 AM One of the earliest notable protest songs of the JFK-era was published in the New York folk magazine Broadside on 20 September 1963, two months before Kennedy’s assassination. ‘Talkin Vietnam’ by Phil Ochs criticised the government for ‘training a million Vietnamese, to fight for the wrong government, and the American way’. It also attacked South Vietnam’s Catholic president Ngo Dinh Diem for his one family rule and suppression of the majority Buddhist population. (History Today) |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GerryM Date: 23 Nov 20 - 11:04 PM Christopher Conder, run, don't walk, and get yourself a copy of Barbara Dane – Anthology of American Folk Songs, released on LP in 1959, on CD in 1997 (Tradition TCD 1062). No protest songs, just a beautiful deep voice singing Little Maggie, and Gypsy Davy, and Don't Sing Love Songs, and a dozen other fine oldtime songs. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST,Christopher Conder Date: 25 Nov 20 - 01:31 PM Thanks Gerry. I've just added it to my list of recommended albums on Spotify and will have a listen soon. |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: GUEST Date: 23 May 22 - 10:52 PM Tom Paxton - I Don't Want Your Pardon (Live at the End of War Celebration, May 11, 1975) So this mysterious Paxton song is no more lyrics only; we can now actually get to hear it. It's indeed powerful and biting. (And musically interesting too - those modal mixture and parallel key tricks.) |
Subject: RE: Vietnam era protest songs From: Sol Date: 19 Dec 22 - 09:43 AM Not sure if this song has already been mentioned. "Travelin' Soldier" - The Dixie Chicks Travelin' Soldier |
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