Lyr Req: Mary's Reply (Mountains of Mourne sequel)

Subject: Mary's Reply (Mountains of Mourne sequel)
From: Genie
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 04:02 PM

DK if Percy wrote the words to Mary's Reply, but he did write the lyrics to Mountains O' Mourne.   The group Celtic Thunder, however, on their website, list that song as "Traditional."
The usual tune does seem to be traditional (though Keith Harkin seems to have given it the usual contemporary pop singer extreme melodic modulation treatment, making it verge on unrecognizable in places), but I find it offensive when lyrics by a known author, especially one from the not-so-distant past, are ascribed to that "Trad" guy.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mary's Reply (Mountains of Mourne sequel)
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 10:34 AM

Doesn't Brendan O'Dowda repeat the first verse of "Gortnamona" at the end? While Percy French certainly does play on some "Stage-Oirish" expectations (as in the Widow Cafferty being the best dancer; or, in the song itself, she "bate the company at the Handlin' of the Fut"), I'm not persuaded that his humour actually depends on the kind of patronising, negative stereotyping one might expect; is there really anything like that in, say, "McBreen's Heifer"? Isn't it just taking the countryman's practicality with regard to livestock and romance to extremes? And so with many of the other songs with which I'm familiar; "The darlin girl from Clare" needn't be from anywhere in Ireland at all for the humour to work, the Pride of Connemara could set sail from any community, and Abdul Abulbul Ameer or Count Ivan Skivar never set foot, or boot, or sandal, anywhere near Howth, Cobh or DunLaoghaire. On the other hand, a line like "When we get what we want, we're as quiet as can be/Where the Mountains of Mourne &c" is a perfect example of a dry, understated Irish wit. If anything, his songs can be unduly sentimental ("Father Cornelius Callaghan"), but - as has been hinted above - in the right hands, or mouth, something like "An Irish Mother" or even "Cuttin' the Corn in Creeslough" can surely draw tears. After all, for many of the people hearing them at the time they were composed, this was reality.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mary's Reply (Mountains of Mourne sequel)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:37 PM

Link to Woods of Gortnamona

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=I-ttbUWbBdE

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mary's Reply (Mountains of Mourne seq
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:19 PM

The woods of Gortnamona now on You Tube, go to lorgain2.

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: wes.w
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 03:01 AM

McGrath, I've just gone through a fairly thorough book by James Healey on French's songs, and there doesn't seem to be anything on Mary's reply, so probably French didn't write it. He did write the female version of Darling Girl from Clare, which may be where your idea came from.

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 02:17 PM

There's more to Percy French than fun and jollity. Here's one of his that isn't in the DT that I could see:

Long, long ago in the woods of Gortnamona,
I thought the birds were singing in the blackthorn tree;
But oh! it was my heart that was ringing, ringing, ringing,
With the joy that you were bringing, O my love, to me.

Long, long ago in the woods of Gortnamona,
I thought the wind was sighing round the blackthorn tree;
But oh! it was the banshee that was crying, crying, crying,
And I knew my love was dying far across the sea.

Now if you go through the woods of Gortnamona,
You hear the raindrops creeping through the blackthorn tree.
But oh! it is the tears that I am weeping, weping, weeping,
For the loved one that is sleeping far away from me.

He wrote it after his wife Etta died in childbirth. He never put a tune to it - maybe he knew he'd never be able to sing it if he did. But a long time later, Brendan O'Dowda got a friend Philip Green to give it a tune, and recorded it.

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Big Tim
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 11:38 AM

I too have some reservations about many of PF's songs but these are mostly overcome by the apparently genuine affection that he had for all things Irish. His social class shouldn't be held against him. It took him nine years to get his degree as, anticipating many modern students, he was too busy having a good time. The Anglo_Irish and Protestants are Irish too, it's not just a "nationalist" thing. The bottom line is that many of his songs have lasted a long time and will last for another very long time - and I'm a Donegal "boy".

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: wes.w
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:15 AM

Shouldn't we be spelling Oirish as Áríis?

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:15 AM

Okay, point taken about delivery. Maybe I just prefer the slow and dirge-like ballads of doom...Also, familiarity breeds contempt. Perhaps it's overexposure to his songs and in particular to the ubiquitous "Mountains of Mourne". (Perhaps it's also the fact that I find it hard to reconcile an emigrant's longing for home with Newcastle. I suppose it's a nice enough place in the winter, though.)
Ach, sod it, I'm going to stand by my orginal post - I'm afraid I just don't like these songs!

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:04 AM

"Their jumpy manner and bloody chirpiness" - those are comments on a manner in which songs can be presented. One among many.

God, there are singers who can totally destroy any song they touch, and you find a lot of them about in the Oirish show-biz scene. But surely that's irrelevant, as the man said when he saw the circus parade going by...

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:01 AM

I was trying to write cheérs but put the amp in - doh!

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 08:59 AM

che&eacuters!

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: wes.w
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 08:57 AM

Perhaps if he was here to perform them, we might think differently ... so much of a song comes (or doesn't) from the singer. é? type &eacute , basically just the letter and the name of the accent - but that's also a cliché

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 08:38 AM

Hmmm, fair enough, but the whole cheesiness of it gets right up my nose. They just seem like big cliches in song form (please mentally insert accent over e in cliche - I can't remember how to do it offhand). Perhaps it's just their jumpy manner and bloody chirpiness. Bah, humbug.

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: wes.w
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 07:38 AM

Surely the whole thing with Percy French was that he was producing stuff that people wanted at that particular time? He made his living performing these songs in Ireland didn't he? It seems a bit arrogant to condemn him based on what is the politically correct stance of today.
About ten years ago in Clare I was treated to two real melodramatic tear jerkers, about mothers and emigrant sons, but sung with real feeling for the words. Put into print they would be real 'Oirish' songs, but their validity for that community, at that particular time, could not be contested.

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 07:40 PM

"Why do the Irish always have to get chippy about all this..."

No that is a bit of stereotyping for you if there ever was one. And arrant nonsense too, thank God, as a generalisation.

There are stereotypes and stereotypes, and those you find in Percy French, yes and in Somerville and Ross, are most of the time stereotypes to take pleasure in, and to recognise as essentially true - though not the whole truth by a long way. (I'm heartily sorry for anyone who didn't enjoy the BBNC/Telefis Eireann series of the Irish RM - I don't mean the ones who haven't seen it yet, because they've got it to come and are to be envied. The poor miserable sods who saw it and clucked disapproval.)

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm just back last week from my brother's funeral in Ireland, which meant a reunion with dozens of cousins whom I hadn't seen together since the last time someone died. And I was reassured to find once again that, bugger the Celtic Tiger, it's still the same place and the family beneath it all, and Percy French would have been welcome there. (And all this in the middle of a national emergency with the foot and mouth and ruin staring people in the face if things go wrong there...The requiem mass included a prayer about that, and my brother would have been delighted at that.)

You're right there Michael, you're right! I knew sooner or later the Mudcat would come up with the song. It was in Ireland's Own I saw it now, I remember. And then I heard someone sing the two songs back to back, and you'd think it'd take too long, but it didn't.

But I've heard a suggestion that it was Percy French wrote Mary's reply himself. Is there anyone out there who has a clue about that?

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 06:17 PM

Come on, let's have a dose of reality here. Is "Phil the Fluter's Ball" really racial stereotyping? Percy French was simply depicting characters he had met and observed. There is no stereotyping in any of his songs. For Chrissakes, why do the Irish always have to get chippy about all this whan the Scots always just shrug it off with wry smile ?

Murray (Where's Your Troosers) MacLeod

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 05:10 AM

Oh thanks be! Someone else hates Percy French! And I'm a Co. Down girl, but I feel absolutely no love for any of his corny Oirish songs. (I'd definitely like to hear the parody involving a donkey...)

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:36 PM

Well, yes; the racial stereotyping is a bit embarrassing nowadays, and he does come over as something of an "Uncle Tom" by today's standards.  Still and all, he made his living mainly as a comic writer, and it was affectionate parody, by all accounts, made with understanding.  At any rate, he chose some pretty good tunes to work with, which must have quite a bearing on his continuing popularity, at home as much as abroad.  Stephen Foster comes to mind, too, though of course he didn't belong to the culture he parodied.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: chordstrangler
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:28 PM

I have to confess to having a considerable problem with Percy French. Would anybody agree with me when I say that when I hear "Phil the Fluter's Ball" or much of the other stuff that he wrote that I end up with a very bad taste in my mouth.

For this man was the very worst of Anglo/Irish condescencion. This man was Sommerville and Ross in Spades. Really, we have surely outgrown Percy and his works and his pomps.

Haven't we?

Mickey

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Bugsy
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 03:17 AM

I heard a parody of Mountains of Mourne once, about a donkey, does anyon have the words to that one?

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Michael in Swansea
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:54 AM

I posted the words for Mary's Reply last month, good to know my efforts weren't in vain and someone noticed *GRIN*.
If there's no birdie sign does that mean it's not been harvested yet?

Mike

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Stewart
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 07:11 PM

James, you're right! Thanks much. And here's the blue clicky for those who are interested. Click Here

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 07:11 PM

Thankyou, James.

Mary's Reply

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: jaze
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 06:03 PM

The lyrics were posted. If you go to the forum and type in Mary's Reply, it wil take you there. Sorry can't blue clicky yet. James

Subject: RE: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 12:22 AM

Never heard of a sequel! 'Ve sung it for thirty years without one, and it does okay.

A

Subject: Mountains of Mourne - Sequel?
From: Stewart
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 06:28 PM

In an earlier thread McGrath mentioned hearing a sequel to Percy French's "Mountains of Mourne" which was the letter Mary wrote back to her young man in exile. Thread, click here

No one came forth with the lyrics. Does anyone know this?

Cheers, S. in Seattle