BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four

Subject: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Amos
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 12:59 PM

OF interest to those alarmed about the media blowhardity on the subject of checmical, biological and nuclear modes of attack is the ofllowing, which is attributed as signed.

Regards,

A.

>Subject: "Real" Deal about Nuclear, Bio, and Chem Attacks
>
>
>Subject: "Real" Deal about Nuclear, Bio, and Chem Attacks
>
>This was sent to a the members of a professional group I belong to
>from one of our members.  Because I think this is of the utmost
>importance, I'm going to forward this to everyone I know.  If you're
>upset because I bothered you with it, tough.
>You'll get over it.  It's good news and, because of our current
>state of affairs, it's probably one of the most important bits of
>information you'll receive.   So, do yourself a favor and read it.
>Then take a breath of relief .... then pass it on.  I think we owe
>it to our fellow Americans to pass it on.  Even if you're still
>skeptical, it's more than you knew before you read it.
>
>
>Michael Hentigan
>San Diego, CA
>Hentigan Brace & Associates, Inc.
>619-294-4847
>PI 13485
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>  From:    SFC Red Thomas (Ret)
>               Armor Master Gunner
>               Mesa, AZ
>               Unlimited reproduction and distribution is authorized.  Just
>               give me credit for my work, and, keep in context.
>
>Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 12:59 PM
>Subject: "Real" Deal about Nuclear, Bio, and Chem Attacks
>
>
>Since the media has decided to scare everyone with predictions of
>chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf I decided to
>write a paper and
>keep things in their proper perspective.  I am a retired military weapons,
>munitions, and training expert.
>
>Lesson number one: In the mid 1990's there were a series of nerve gas
>attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations.  Given perfect conditions for
>an attack less than 10% of the people there were injured (the injured were
>better in a few hours) and only one percent of the injured died. 60 Minutes
>once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a
>thousand people, well he didn't tell you the thousand dead people per drop
>was theoretical.  Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff was
>to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill
>Sergeant too).  Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the
>movies, or read in
>a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (read this sentence again out
>loud!)! These weapons are about terror, if you remain calm, you will
>probably not die.  This is far less scary than the media and their
>"Experts," make it sound.
>
>Chemical weapons are categorized as Nerve, Blood, Blister, and
>Incapacitating agents Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians
>they are not weapons of mass destruction they are "Area denial," and terror
>weapons that don't destroy anything.  When you leave the area you almost
>always leave the risk.  That's the difference; you can leave the area and
>the risk; soldiers may have to stay put and sit through it and that's why
>they need all that spiffy gear.
>
>These are not gasses, they are vapors and/or air borne particles.  The
>agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill/injure, and
>that defines
>when/how it's used. Every day we have a morning and evening inversion
>where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why
>allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day.
>So, a chemical attack will have it's best effect an hour of so either side
>of sunrise/sunset. Also, being vapors and airborne
>particles they are heavier than air so they will seek low places like
>ditches, basements and underground garages.  This stuff won't work when
>it's freezing, it doesn't last when it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin too
>fast.  They've got to get this stuff on you, or, get you to inhale it for
>it to work.  They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough
>to kill or wound you.  Too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted.
>What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons
>attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to do with military grade
>agents and equipment so you can imagine how hard it will be for
>terrorists. The more you know about this stuff the more you realize
>how hard it is to
>use.
>
>We'll start by talking about nerve agents. You have these in your house,
>plain old bug killer (like Raid) is nerve agent. All nerve agents work the
>same way; they are cholinesterase inhibitors that mess up the signals your
>nervous system uses to make your body function.  It can harm you if you
>get it on your skin but it works best if they can get you to inhale it.  If
>you don't die in the first minute and you can leave the area you're probably
>gonna live.  The military's antidote for all nerve agents is atropine and
>pralidoxime chloride. Neither one of these does anything to cure the nerve
>agent, they send your body into overdrive to keep you alive for five
>minutes, after that the agent is used up.  Your best protection is fresh
>air and staying calm.  Listed below are the symptoms for nerve agent
>poisoning.
>Sudden headache, Dimness of vision (someone you're looking at will have
>pinpointed pupils), Runny nose, Excessive saliva or drooling, Difficulty
>breathing, Tightness in chest, Nausea, Stomach cramps, Twitching of
>exposed skin where a liquid just got on you.
>
>If you are in public and you start experiencing these symptoms, first ask
>yourself, did anything out of the ordinary just happen, a loud pop, did
>someone spray something on the crowd? Are other people getting sick too?
>
>Is there an odor of new mown hay, green corn, something fruity, or camphor
>where it shouldn't be?
>
>If the answer is yes, then calmly (if you panic you breathe faster and
>inhale more air/poison) leave the area and head up wind, or, outside.
>Fresh air is the best "right now antidote".  If you have a blob of liquid that
>looks like molasses or Kayro syrup on you; blot it or scrape it off and
>away from yourself with anything disposable.  This stuff works based on your
>body weight, what a crop duster uses to kill bugs won't hurt you unless
>you stand there and breathe it in real deep, then lick the residue off the
>ground for while.  Remember they have to do all the work, they have to get
>the concentration up and keep it up for several minutes while all you have
>to do is quit getting it on you/quit breathing it by putting space between
>you and the attack.
>
>Blood agents are cyanide or arsine which effect your blood's ability to
>provide oxygen to your tissue.  The scenario for attack would be the same
>as nerve agent.  Look for a pop or someone splashing/spraying something and
>folks around there getting woozy/falling down. The telltale smells are
>bitter almonds or garlic where it shouldn't be.  The symptoms are blue
>lips, blue under the fingernails rapid breathing.  The military's antidote is
>amyl nitride and just like nerve agent antidote it just keeps your
>body working
>for five minutes till the toxins are used up.  Fresh air is the your best
>individual chance.
>
>Blister agents (distilled mustard) are so nasty that nobody wants to even
>handle it let alone use it.  It's almost impossible to handle safely and
>may have delayed effect of up to 12 hours.  The attack scenario is also
>limited to the things you'd see from other chemicals. If you do get
>large, painful
>blisters for no apparent reason, don't pop them, if you must, don't let
>the liquid from the blister get on any other area, the stuff just keeps on
>spreading.  It's just as likely to harm the user as the target. Soap,
>water, sunshine, and fresh air are this stuff's enemy.
>
>Bottom line on chemical weapons (it's the same if they use industrial
>chemical spills); they are intended to make you panic, to terrorize you,
>to heard you like sheep to the wolves.  If there is an attack, leave the area
>and go upwind, or to the sides of the wind stream. They have to get the
>stuff to you, and on you.  You're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver
>on any given day than be hurt by one of these attacks.  Your odds get
>better if you leave the area. Soap, water, time, and fresh air
>really deal this
>stuff a knock-out-punch. Don't let fear of an isolated attack rule your
>life. The odds are really on your side.
>
>Nuclear bombs.  These are the only weapons of mass destruction on earth.
>The effects of a nuclear bomb are heat, blast, EMP, and radiation. If you see
>a bright flash of light like the sun, where the sun isn't, fall to the
>ground! The heat will be over a second.  Then there will be two
>blast waves, one
>out going, and one on it's way back.  Don't stand up to see what
>happened after the first wave; anything that's going to happen will have
>happened in two full minutes.
>
>These will be low yield devices and will not level whole cities.  If you
>live through the heat, blast, and initial burst of radiation, you'll
>probably live for a very very long time.  Radiation will not create fifty
>foot tall women, or giant ants and grass hoppers the size of tanks.  These
>will be at the most 1 kiloton bombs; that's the equivalent of 1,000 tons
>of TNT.
>
>Here's the real deal, flying debris and radiation will kill a lot of
>exposed (not all!) people within a half mile of the blast.  Under perfect
>conditions this is about a half mile circle of death and
>destruction, but, when it's
>done it's done.  EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse and it will fry
>every electronic device for a good distance, it's impossible to say
>what and how
>far but probably not over a couple of miles from ground zero is a good
>guess. Cars, cell phones, computers, ATMs, you name it, all will be out of
>order.
>
>There are lots of kinds of radiation, you only need to worry about three,
>the others you have lived with for years.  You need to worry about
>"Ionizing radiation," these are little sub atomic particles that go
>whizzing along
>at the speed of light.  They hit individual cells in your body, kill the
>nucleus and keep on going.  That's how you get radiation poisoning, you
>have so many dead cells in your body that the decaying cells poison you.  It's
>the same as people getting radiation treatments for cancer, only a bigger
>area gets radiated.  The good news is you don't have to just sit there and
>take it, and there's lots you can do rather than panic.  First; your skin
>will stop alpha particles, a page of a news paper or your clothing will
>stop beta particles, you just gotta try and avoid inhaling dust that's
>contaminated with atoms that are emitting these things and you'll be
>generally safe from them.
>
>Gamma rays are particles that travel like rays (quantum physics makes my
>brain hurt) and they create the same damage as alpha and beta particles
>only they keep going and kill lots of cells as they go all the way
>through your
>body. It takes a lot to stop these things, lots of dense material, on the
>other hand it takes a lot of this to kill you.
>
>Your defense is as always to not panic. Basic hygiene and normal
>preparation are your friends.  All canned or frozen food is safe to
>eat. The radiation
>poisoning will not effect plants so fruits and vegetables are OK if
>there's no dust on em (rinse em off if there is).  If you don't have
>running water
>and you need to collect rain water or use water from wherever, just let
>it sit for thirty minutes and skim off the water gently from the top. The
>dust with the bad stuff in it will settle and the remaining water can be
>used for the toilet which will still work if you have a bucket of water to
>pour in the tank.
>
>Finally there's biological warfare.  There's not much to cover here. Basic
>personal hygiene and sanitation will take you further than a million
>doctors.  Wash your hands often, don't share drinks, food, sloppy kisses,
>etc., ... with strangers.  Keep your garbage can with a tight lid on it,
>don't have standing water (like old buckets, ditches, or kiddie pools)
>laying around to allow mosquitoes breeding room.  This stuff is carried by
>vectors, that is bugs, rodents, and contaminated material.  If
>biological warfare
>is so easy as the TV makes it sound, why has Saddam Hussein spent twenty
>years, millions, and millions of dollars trying to get it right?  If
>you're clean
>of person and home you eat well and are active you're gonna live.
>Overall preparation for any terrorist attack is the same as you'd take for
>a big storm. If you want a gas mask, fine, go get one.  I know this stuff
>and I'm not getting one and I told my Mom not to bother with one either (how's
>that for confidence).  We have a week's worth of cash, several days worth
>of canned goods and plenty of soap and water.  We don't leave stuff out
>to attract bugs or rodents so we don't have them.
>
>These people can't conceive a nation this big with this much resources.
>These weapons are made to cause panic, terror, and to demoralize. If we
>don't run around like sheep they won't use this stuff after they find out
>it's no fun.  The government is going nuts over this stuff because they
>have to protect every inch of America.  You've only gotta protect
>yourself, and
>by doing that, you help the country.
>
>Finally, there are millions of caveats to everything I wrote here and you
>can think up specific scenarios where my advice isn't the best.  This
>letter is supposed to help the greatest number of people under the greatest
>number of situations.  If you don't like my work, don't nit pick,
>just sit down
>and explain chemical, nuclear, and biological warfare in a document around
>three pages long yourself.  This is how we the people of the United States can
>rob these people of their most desired goal, your terror.
>
>SFC Red Thomas (Ret)
>Armor Master Gunner
>Mesa, AZ
>Unlimited reproduction and distribution is authorized.  Just give me
>credit for my work, and, keep in context.
>
>

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 02:10 PM

Good times , End times As events turn worse It's too late to learn If you're breathing the curse It may be our turn With sorrow to come Still the Dark Ages Were Golden for some

DH

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: DougR
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 02:39 PM

Good article, Amos. Thanks for posting it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 04:07 PM

Good article. And doesn't it make you furious, as I have been for years, that in many buildings, including schools, including hospitals, there is no way to open a window to let stuff out. You are left with engineered air, which at best is not maintained properly, with people putting filing cabinets in front of air ducts,and god knows where they put the intake air..sucking up exhaust fumes at one university hospital...mixed in with laboratory air in another university hospital. If you have a choice, choose not to live or work where you can't open a window, either to get out or to get air in.

mg

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 04:11 PM

Yes, that's a healthy dose of common sense.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 06:16 PM

Good post Amos. It is refreshing to see threads like this appearing, and the other one WYSIWYG opened on anthrax, to counterbalance the paranoia which has grabbed so many of the populace.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 10:30 PM

Thanks, Murray.

In other news, this linkoffers a new perspectve on the tragicomedic insanity of things -- "Warning!! Do Not Confuse Food with Bombs, Noble Afghans!!".

Oy!

A.

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 10:33 PM

Sorry, that clicky had a knot in it. Try this one.

A

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 06:45 AM

Actually, the above article has already been posted to another 9/11 thread.

Just like the "Bad Marriage" thread had already made a previous appearance on Mudcat.

Apparently, people here have short memories.

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 12:16 PM

Despite the order to not "nit pick". The above document is feel good pollyana drivel that has no substance in covering the actual weapons and agents. I have posted previous multipage documents and my views on bio war, not to alarm but to inform. The feel good propoganda as seen above succeeds only in the absence of hard facts.
Wash your hands...what a wonderful deterence. Whether I post facts from CDC and NIH or make satire about such horrendous scenarios of bio war, the unwashed public will always prefer the feel good "everything is fine" message. For those who can not seperate fact from terror, perhaps they will be best served with the spin from the service veteran above.

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Troll
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 12:49 PM

Don,

Just what are the "hard facts" that are at variance with the Sgts "feel good propoganda". You don't need to know everything about chemical and biological agents to survive them.
No, he doesn't cover exactly what anthrax looks like or does.
What he does tell you is how to avoid contamination from a variety of agents, good, general rules of thumb. And that's what's needed. A Bio-attack, when and if it comes, may take any form and the specific preventive measures used for one may not be effective for others but general measures will be.
My own experience in the military concerning NBC warfare parallels the info given above.
CDC and NIH tend toward doomsday scenarios and that's natural. They are Govt. agencies and as such depend on convincing the Appropriations Committee that their work is absolutely vital in order to receive funding. This is not to say that they are wrong in what they publish, but that they have an agenda.
We all need to be aware of that.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: GUEST,MandolinMike
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 02:21 PM

I noticed in another thread, Donuel, you live in Silver Springs, Maryland--Are you aware that Anthrax was found in your area? How are you handling that?

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:08 PM

Myself, I'd rather be utterly terrified, in a blithering blind panic, and completely beside myself, given the choice...

(which pretty well describes my mother when her little doggies are out of her sight for more than 3 minutes...)

Look, we all have our own way of being happy and finding meaning in life, okay?

I recall when flattop thought the world was going to collapse on Jan 1, 2000 because of the Millennium Bug. It didn't. Talk about a major disappointment! He still carries the wounds today...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: GUEST,CarolC (without cookies)
Date: 30 Oct 01 - 09:27 PM

Was that why he had a secret shelter unerneath the front hall closet, LH? He told me he just built it because Johnny Death wanted a secure place to store his 10,000 LPs.

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 08:57 AM

Are CBR devices nasty? You bechum Red Ryder! However, Sgt Red's post is what the military was teaching and I assume still is. A few points if I may: Nukes: I can't add much to what he said except that if it happens and you're outside the immediate zone (Ground Zero) Wash and use copious amounts of soap and water. Chemical; These agents are highly variable and are highly dependent on weather but get out of the area as soon as possible in a calm manner. Bio agents; Follow the guidelines the post office put out for anthrax and if you come down with something unusual or get a case of something that won't quit, seek medical attention. Kindest regards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 09:59 PM

Mando mike, Two of our Capitol Hill friends were tested. Holy Cross Hospital where our 2 sons were born is treating 3 anthrax victims. Our postman dissappeared but it turns out he broke his ankle. When I skinned my knuckle and the scab turned black it made me think twice. As for mail, for the last year I have kept a garbage can by the mailbox so junk mail doesn't even make it inside the house. Anthrax is real minor league stuff compared to contagious agents. Our ties to NIH could not be closer.

troll, surely you recognize spin even if it is the military that is doing the spin. If you don't, telling you the grisly details and facts will not alter your seemingly automatic contrary point of view.

I have already posted the awful truth about these agents here. I was told no one wants to hear that kind of thing.

Some are so keen on "need to know" military compartmentilization, they feel happy not knowing. For myself I view the need to know concept as ultimate arrogance.
One last thing, a well orchestrated attack would be a one two punch. 1. A mass outbreak is reported so 2. the rest of the population rush to wash in risan tainted water. Hey maybe I should advise Rumfeld what to do to "them". *G*

Subject: RE: BS: War, Strategy & Tactics:Part Four
From: Troll
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:03 PM

Don, yours is the contrary point of view. I asked, "Just what are the "hard facts" that are at variance with the Sgts "feel good propoganda"."
You never answered the question. Obviously you feel that everyone should wade through the web sites of CDC and NIH to learn every bit they can about NBC warfare.
So what do those august bodies recommend that the Sgt's letter does not?
That's two questions and I'm not being contrary just for the sake of being contrary. Was the letter too simplistic? Did it recommend things that won't work?
If this is what the military is teaching in its NBC Warfare Schools, then it's probably pretty straight dope. The Armed Forces are not in the habit of sacrificing men for "spin" or"feel good propaganda", especially not to something as potentially devastating as Nuclear, Chemical, or Biological attack.

troll