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Help: Quiet Festival nights?
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Subject: Quiet Festival nights? From: brid widder Date: 19 Dec 01 - 02:16 PM In another thread...(the phone in the audience) I have just been reprimanded for admitting to singing on a Folk-Festival campsite. the occasion was Whitby week this year, the place the main campsite. Those of you who were there will remember that we had MAJOR problems with local kids damaging tents and caravans and generally causing aggro...as a result the campsite stewards worked extremely hard to make sure the site was patrolled...from 8:00am until after midnight every night.Now the campsite at Whitby is a school field...away from the festival activities so it is not a popular task!!we are not paid...we get a free pass...this year we had very little opportunity to use these!! Now admittedly the main campsite is normally quiet...the stewards make sure of that...but at the close of such a week is it unreasonabe for four or five people...not a marquee full...to have a drink and to sing??..we caused no disturbance to the local residents...is this complaint from one of the festivalgoers reasonable?
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: jeffp Date: 19 Dec 01 - 02:28 PM When I am at a music festival, I don't expect quiet at any time on any night. If I'm not exhausted enough to sleep through the music, I just haven't taken full enough advantage of my opportunities during the day. If it had been me, I would have either slept through it or come and raised up my voice with you! Don't consume too much time worrying over it. jeffp |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Les b (U.K.) Date: 19 Dec 01 - 03:12 PM I was on the campsite at Whitby and I don't remember having any trouble with noise. I think it's a question of being sensible. At Chester I was a bit pissed off when loud chorus singing was still going on at 3-30am, I do need some sleep. But I think that this was more irritating through not having slept much the night before, owing to the shouting and swearing and eventually the violence of some local yobs. I think that this and the trouble with local youths at Whitby is more worrying. Les |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: brid widder Date: 19 Dec 01 - 06:04 PM The problem with yobs is worrying...some people had hundreds of pounds worth of damage done....a couple of them got into a caravan awning and swung on the frame pulling the awning away from the side of the van...the van, a newish one was very badly damaged...several tents were written off..some people went home. This was all in the first couple of days, when we were a curiosity I suppose. I can imagine that some of those affected would think twice about coming next year....B&B accomodation is expensive, and usually full that week, most who choose camping have no other choice. I enjoy stewarding at festivals, it makes me feel 'part of it' but I will not do the campsite again...sorry Paul, and I think there will be others who will make the same decision. So the person who complained about the noise will have a quiet time...if there is anyone to make sure he has a caravan to come back to!! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Gary T Date: 20 Dec 01 - 10:08 AM At a major annual festival I attend (Winfield, KS), camping is on the festival grounds. It is held in a county park. Only festival ticket holders are allowed into the campgrounds. There are checkpoints at the roads into the park, and regular security patrols throughout the grounds. I don't know how feasible this system would be for the Whitby festival, but it essentially eliminates the type of vandalism described. The worst I'm aware of has been some local youth sneaking in and stealing beer from accessible coolers. It is understood that there will be campground music around the clock, and the official rules mention this. They use the ambiguous wording, "As long as this is the type of music being played, we don't expect that to disturb anyone"--without having specified what "this type" of music is. Essentially, it seems to mean don't be blasting a rock and roll tape at 2:00 a.m. Occasionally someone is a bit peaved at having camped next to a group that makes music well into the wee hours. Tough break, if it really bothers them they can leave. Or do what my mother-in-law does--use earplugs. To expect quiet in the campground at a music festival is, in my opinion, ridiculous. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: brid widder Date: 20 Dec 01 - 02:58 PM thanks Guys I think so too...obviously! Whitby Festival takes over the whole town for a week in august..any accomodation in the town is soon snapped up..the campsite is a school field in a residential area so it does need to be fairly quiet...the incident the bloke complained about was half a dozen of us in one caravan on the closing night...admittedly singing late but if I remember right we took turns...not huge rousing choruses of thousands or more!!! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Paul from Hull Date: 20 Dec 01 - 03:05 PM ...at one edge of the site...well, a corner really. There were instances in the week when pedestrians walking along the street would have been noisier. (for those who arent sure what we are talking about, the 'singers' were Campsite Stewards...thus capable of judging a reasonable level of noise) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: brid widder Date: 06 May 02 - 05:57 PM As it's that time of year again I thought I'd refresh this.
Just back from the excellent Moor & Coast Festival at Whitby, spent two nights with about 50 or so others singing...til at least 5 am...in the Men's showers! a great place for a party.. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Jim Dixon Date: 07 May 02 - 01:45 PM refresh |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,Les B(UK) Date: 07 May 02 - 01:56 PM |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,Les B(UK) Date: 07 May 02 - 01:57 PM I managed about 45 mins, till the smoke overcame me. It was lovely and quiet on the camp site. Les |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST Date: 07 May 02 - 02:17 PM Thank god we don't need to put up with hooligan elements at the Canadian festivals! Winnipeg has something more civilized, methinks. The quiet campground (also the one used by families with small children) and the general campground, where the rowdies can howl at the moon to their heart's content and neighbor's despair. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 May 02 - 02:17 PM Some festivals try to work it so there's a family site or area which is supposed to be quieter, and a site where late night music is expected. I'm not sure how successful it is, but it seems a good idea in principle.
It can't be much fun with young kids or babies, if there's a party going on all night next door - and it's important that people can keep coming when they have young families, because thats where the future of the music lies. The great thing about folk music is that it is multi-generational, and once it loses that it's blown it.
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 07 May 02 - 02:45 PM Why would one be at a festival is one cared about sleep? I used to be able to stay up all night. Now I enjoy drifting off to sleep while being serenaded by the jam at the next site. I actually wake up when things get quiet. The Mt. Airy festival essentially takes over the center of a very small town, but I don't recall hearing of complaints by the citizenry. Same for Glenville. The music goes on all night in the motel parking lot. If you are located near people who don't want music at certains hours, and you care that they care, it's time to move the campground. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: brid widder Date: 07 May 02 - 06:45 PM I think most sites have a 'quiet end'... usually one would not pitch near to the food tent and expect an early night... also one might expect an entrance gateway to be quite busy with people coming and going. On this particular Whitby site there is no communal area or food tent as it is a primary school sports field on a small housing estate, there are other places to relax off the site. The incident mentioned at the start of the thread was a very small group of about 6 campsite stewards (including me) who, because of all the problems, had hardly left the site all week... it was closing night.. we felt we deserved to relax too, we were in a caravan close to the entrance... the person who made the complaint had chosen to put his trailer close to the entrance too, he did not have children. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Mr Happy Date: 08 May 02 - 03:48 AM i find myself on a sort of shift system a festivals i'm usually going to bed about 5am, sleeping 'til midday, having some brecky, then off to a session to do it all again for the rest of the day and night |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: KingBrilliant Date: 08 May 02 - 03:57 AM One of the best things about a festival is the late-night singing & playing. That's when you get to meet new people and mellow out with some music. Most people that aren't joining in can sleep through it. Most kids sleep through it. I'm surprised anyone would complain. Especially as this was going on inside a caravan, so can't have been all that loud!!! Separate quiet & noisy areas are a good idea though. KRis |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: greg stephens Date: 08 May 02 - 04:19 AM Lying in an uncomfortable tent being woken up bymusic is one of the pleasures of a festival. Ilike the nice blends of music you get.The drunken rowdies for the post pubhours, the gradual mellowing as the bluesy hippy dopeheads take over, the dawn chorus of children screaming and the melodeon and shorts wearing contingents starting there efficient camping breakfasts, punctuated by people falling over your your guyropes as the hangovers stumble out for the morning piss, cigarette and helpless vomit. If you dont like it, stay home. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Dave Bryant Date: 08 May 02 - 05:04 AM Tell any objectors to just thank their lucky stars that I wasn't there. After all the flack about my loud chorus singing at Lancaster, there would probably have been complaints from as far away as Staithes and Robin Hood's Bay as well ! I think that a quiet end of the site (or even a family site) is a great idea, but some of the younger kids we've come across want to play pop music at a much higher level of decibels than any singaround produces. Still folk music might be quite a deterrent to local yobs who would find it painful to have to listen to something tuneful for a while ! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,Sir Roger de Beverley Date: 08 May 02 - 05:06 AM At the PVFF (21st - 23rd June, Beverley) the large pub adjacent to the campsite(Hodgson's) is letting us use a room for the late night singing - and they will serve food and refreshments(they say) until everyone has had enough and gone to bed.We are billing this in the programme as the "festival fringe club" starting at 11pm. I'm sure that people will sing elsewhere as well - isn't that what festivals are all about? Roger |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Alio Date: 08 May 02 - 09:06 AM At Saddleworth we're lucky to have a really large field so there's loads of room for people who want a quiet area to get away from it all, then the ones who like the livelier area with the food and song tent can party all night if they want. In the programme though, we do ask campers to keep the noise down to a "dull roar"! Personally I like heading off to our caravan late-ish but keeping the windows open so I can hear what's going on - don't like to miss anything. Ali |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 08 May 02 - 11:26 AM Well put, Greg. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST Date: 09 May 02 - 07:37 AM Ah, I see. The festivals are for people who are committing suicide with tobacco, and who drink excessively, the rest of us spoil sports be damned? Spoken like a true self-centered (and self-obsessed) lager lout...I'll be sure to steer clear of you during a festival, so thank you for the warning. Separate campgrounds does solve the problem between night owls and day trippers. However, in my experience, music is the operative word here. I certainly wouldn't want to see an end to the late night music. Problem is, there are some few eejits, who when inebriated can't distinguish between music and rowdy pummeling of anything at hand that makes extreeeeemely loud sounds. And echoes for miles. These people should be shot on principle. One of them absolutely destroyed an entire campground's festival experience because the music you were playing round your own area just couldn't compete with the drum brigade. They were never put out of the festival, despite howls of complaints from us long time attendees (these were the younger set, and the campground staff said we needed to accomodate them so we wouldn't alienate the upcoming generation). Sadly, it was the last time I attended that festival. I refuse to be held hostage by inconsiderate, drunken louts, so now only attend festivals where I can either get away from the festival completely (ie to a quiet enough hotel room) or there is accomodation for campers who want a mellow atmosphere in their campground (which doesn't mean no music, it just means quieter music). I'm happy to see the loud music accomodated, so long as it isn't at my (or an entire campground's) expense. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Celtic Soul Date: 09 May 02 - 08:30 AM When I was much younger, and starting out my time as a festival performer, I loved the late night gatherings. We used to sit up and sing doo-wop 'til all hours around a campfire in one campsite we called "The Livingroom". It was a huge draw...tons of people used to flock to that area to sing and party. Now that I am geezing fairly hard (and battle CFIDS symptoms), the idea of staying up most of the night is highly physically costly and downright frightening. Add to this that my sleep cycle is easily disturbed, so there is no sleeping through the noise. So anyway, I've been on both sides. However, as an old fart now, I see the inherent selfishness that was in my younger days thinking. The idea that my fun should not be inhibited by someone elses need for quiet is just that...selfish. When you've busted your ass for 12ish hours at a festival, you live more than an hour away from the site, and you're exhausted, you deserve to be able to get the amount of rest you need to get up and do it all again the following day. However, I think it is most definitely Managements responsibility to patrol the grounds and strictly enforce their *own* quiet time rules so that those who choose to camp based on Managements listed quiet times can get the rest they need. Management cannot be reasonably upset with a contracted employee who is too tired to perform if it happened *on* Festival grounds, and was due to someone elses actions and Festival managements inefficient enforcing of their own rules. But back to the main issue...think of it this way: If someone in your neighbourhood decided to party until all hours and keep you up prior to a regular workday, might you be a tad upset? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: KingBrilliant Date: 09 May 02 - 08:41 AM Celtic Soul - in answer to your question of last paragraph: If it were a regular occurance I'd be miffed, but if it were just an occasional thing then I'd not be too concerned. I don't think it's realistic to expect a festival campsite to be quiet at night (irrespective of the rights and wrongs). I used to hate the noise on campsites at night & would lie awake, desperately trying to get to sleep. Once I learnt the trick of not worrying about getting to sleep I found that even if I didn't actually sleep much, just lying inactive & peacefully listening would be almost as refreshing as having slept. I do sympathise with people who want peace & quiet - but I'm afraid that isn't enough to stop me singing thru the night. The spirit of the moment calls very loudly I'm afraid. Kris |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Mr Red Date: 09 May 02 - 09:50 AM Bridgenorth have a quiet area, and it is reltively quiet, certainly after midnight. There is the moderately and the deafen nightly not, areas, choice eh? NOW Warwick is a fantastic festival but the marquee is too loud for me, and too loud for health and safety, and too loud for the campsite, and doesn't finish before midnight. If you want quiet there you will have to travel a long way. There is a concert on the Thursday night in the Castle, Rod Stewart - long having abandoned any semblance of Folk or acoustic tendencies is paying compensation to the town for the anticipated noise. don't get there early! But Then there is some pop idle (sic)( who's name happily escapes me) on Fri and UB40 on Sunday (no concessions!!). So that's the marquee twice as loud to drown-out the Castle. Warwick may be a good festival but LOUD ain't. complaints fall on deaf ears. The sessions ain't that hot these days - if the dance bands don't cut it then Mr Red may well vote with his red caravan........... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,Midchuck downstairs Date: 09 May 02 - 10:58 AM |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,Midchuck downstairs Date: 09 May 02 - 11:07 AM One of these days I'll learn when to hit "tab" and when to hit "enter." But it'll probably be too late to do me any good. Anyway. Celtic Soul said: However, as an old fart now, I see the inherent selfishness that was in my younger days thinking. The idea that my fun should not be inhibited by someone elses need for quiet is just that...selfish. I am also an old fart now, and, as a general proposition, I agree completely. But I think a festival is a special case. People come there to play and sing. To turn around and tell them they can't play and sing doesn't make any sense. Old Songs does it well, with designated "quiet" and "noisy" areas. My trouble is, we camp in the noisy area, but I can't sleep in the morning, once the sun hits the tent fabric. So I crawl out, with a whole new set of aches from sleeping on the ground, a full bladder, and desperate for coffee...and so I groan loudly. And everyone who's trying to sleep in is mad at me. What can you do? One thing I do agree with. Drummers should be killed. If that's considered too extreme, then compromise and slash the drumheads. They make it impossible for anyone else on the grounds to hear themselves play any other instrument, or sing. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Wyrd Sister Date: 09 May 02 - 03:09 PM Greg, I can't wait for it all to start again. Music/ singing, yes. Noise, no - and that includes drumming - and possibly excessive use of didgeridoos. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: Celtic Soul Date: 09 May 02 - 07:46 PM I hear what you're all saying...I guess it depends on the festival. In my case, the festival lasts 9 weeks. If I were up every Friday and Saturday night for 9 weeks (plus working a full time job), it'd kill me. Which is why I go home even though it's more than an hour one way. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,vectis at work Date: 10 May 02 - 06:27 AM Broadstairs. (OK I admit it! It is my favourite festival) solved the problem by opening the school attached to the campsite up for 24 hours every festival day. The classrooms and hall are in use by singers, storytellers, musicians and people just chilling out until at least dawn each day. Sleepers snore on undisturbed. Over the years this has become the heart of the festival. This is the thing that makes Broadstairs so much better than the other festivals, it has a soul. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST Date: 10 May 02 - 07:06 AM Its important to remember that none of us is advocating no late night music and entertainment. Just respect for fellow festival goers, and well managed festivals. That really is the essence of it for me. I think all of us, when we were youngsters, wanted to be where it was cool to be. We wanted to be part of the scene, and that was a much stronger incentive than actual playing and listening. Same holds true for todays young people, but not for many of us elders. I would argue that we aren't fizzling out, but speaking only for myself, I am mellowing with age. The drinking and partying of festival youth is something I'm happy to leave behind when I travel to a lovely quiet spot to share more intimate music and company with folks who, while we may be drinking, aren't carrying on. It isn't just about having kids (I agree most kids will sleep through anything if they are tired enough). It is about wanting a different kind of festival experience. Good festivals realize this, and cater to both the younger and older crowds. And they also know who is going to spend more money/volunteer time supporting the festival. Hint: it isn't the all night drunks in the festival campground! I've been to both big British and Canadian festivals. I prefer the Canadian ones, because they put a lot less emphasis on drinking and carousing, and much more emphasis on a quality festival experience. That is probably down to cultural differences. Many British folkies, like their general population, are loath to consider changing/improving their boozing habits, much less giving them up. That doesn't match my experience in Canada and the US, where many folkies have tempered theirs. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: brid widder Date: 10 May 02 - 12:58 PM Thanks everyone... the incident that started this thread was a SMALL group of 6 or so ageing hippies...singing, one at a time, no amplification, no drums, no instruments at all! a glass or so of whiskey, no-one drunk, no-one rowdy...just a few friends saying farewell at the end of a VERY difficult week spent protecting the property of the festival goers...including that of the complainant! I think it is reasonable to expect to sleep sometimes ...one of the things I love about festivals is going to sleep to the sound of music or song and waking up to the sound of early morning melodian practice...but if quiet is important for sleep you put your tent in a quiet area...not close to the entrance or any public area.
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST Date: 10 May 02 - 01:06 PM I agree 1000% Brid. You did nothing wrong. As the old saw goes, some people will complain if hung with a brand new rope. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Quiet Festival nights? From: GUEST,Les B(UK) Date: 10 May 02 - 01:51 PM There is a lot I agree with & a lot I don't agree with in this thread. It seems that most of you go to festivals to play, sing etc but no one has mentioned what we all pay for, & that is to see the Arists. I don't mind a little fringeing, but I primarily go to see the artists & listen to the music, go to workshops, watch the dance sides, go to a ceilidh, play a little, then get some sleep to enable me to do it all over again. Cheers Les |
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