Music: Your Day Job

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 12:51 AM

Thanks for the thought. I am a lot younger than no.one except Bob Hope. Your friends are quite correct, music therepists do not make much money, especially in geriatrics. I love your attitude toward your senior jobs. I do a lot of nursing homes and, once you get used to the lack of audible response, it is both rewarding and meritotious. I do have some strange stories from these jobs. The first time I played a halfway house, I did my entire set without audience reaction, not a laugh, not a singalonger, not even the sound of one hand clapping. I was devestated. When the activities director told me how much the crowd liked the set, I asked her what the hell they did if they were diapleased. She explained that the entire audience was medicated with Thorazine and she knew they liked me bacause they hadn't fallen asleep. Keep in touch. Ours is a fragile and beatiful profession and we should be supporting one another.

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 01:34 AM

Yeah, Mike, I've sung for groups like that, too. Even at some assisted living facilities, where folks tend to function at a pretty high level, I've more than once had the following experience:

I play and sing my heart out, with some folks singing along, a few folks clapping, some song requests, and some folks smiling and laughing. But there's one woman in the front row just glaring at me through the whole program, never clapping or singing. I'm sure she's gonna blackball me with the activity director at the next resident council. Then, when I finish the program, that same woman comes up to me spontaneously to tell me how wonderful my program was and how much it meant to her! (Heck, I've even had that kind of experience in bars!)

Then there was the semi-comatose woman in a nursing home who seemed to be within weeks of her hour of departure from this world. As her soulful, imploring eyes gazed into mine, I sang her a tender, reassuring hymn standing by her bed. When I finished, the intensity of her gaze seemed to intensify, and I felt she was bidding me come closer. I inched ever so slightly closer to her face and...

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 06:40 AM

I do about 20 to 25 hours of lessons every week, with students ranging in age from 9 to retirement, and at all levels of skill/ability. I probably spend another 10 hours or so scheduling, preparing lessons, photocopying, writing, researching, and whatever else I have to do to keep the business running. I give myself two months off for summer holidays during which I play more, and search for and develop new lesson materials.

Promotion for the lesson business consists of a single sign in one (the only) local music store. I used to donate lessons to silent auctions, send out letters to organizations, advertise in schools and so on, but since word of mouth (referrals) keeps me very busy I don't bother with that stuff anymore. However, the waiting list demands alot of telephone time, none of which is paid of course, and few people from the list become students since I've had very little attrition these last two years.

I could go full-time I suppose, but my other day job gives me pension and benefit plans, absolutely no stress, and demands only 20 hours per week.

I do very little booking/organizing for my performing groups (2 duos and a larger band) so other than practices there's no significant time spent there.

Being a visible performing musician helps my teaching business as much as anything. A few business cards pay for themselves instantly.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 01:41 PM

...her eyes opened wide and she yelled
"GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!"

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:14 PM

Hey, Genie, how about when a patient comes on to you? I used to be flattered until I figyred out that it had nothing to do with my many charms. Sometimes a patient will walk over to the micraphone while I'm singing and sometimes a patient will start yelling at the nurses or at another patient. It makes for an uneven set and I had to learn to just keep going. But I wouldn't stop doing these jobs. I know how important they are to the residents. Mooh, your ideas for getting started in the teaching field are sound. You have discovered that the best source for students is the students you already have. I have been able to build my teaching practice on referals. It is muchmore reliable than advertising. Do you realy teach twenty hours a week. That sounds like full time to me.

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 11:09 PM

I know what you mean, Mike. In dementia units, I've encountered 95-year-old stippers (usually males), hair pullers, folks who sing another tune in a different language at the top of their lungs, a very strong & tall woman who seemed to take me for her toddler and grabbed my arm and swatted me on the butt, and a woman who lunged at my amplifier as though it were some diabolic invention that needed to be dispensed with.

There are, of course, the Bob Packwood type males who cop feels when they are young and don't quit just because they get old. One man in an assisted living facility used to come on to me verbally but very strongly, whispering to me while his wife was a few yards away just. Another guy who is pretty well off financially proposes to me every month and tells me what a great lover he is. As you said, it has nothing to do with your charms or mine. And, for the most part, incidents like this are harmlesss or even funny.

Lest I give a false impression, though, let me point out that a lot of folks in nursing homes suffer mainly from memory impairment and/or physical frailty (which can be temporary or permanent), and it is a great disservice to them to underestimate their lucidity, music appreciation, etc.

One thing that is a great source of satisfaction to me is to sing a funny song or tell a funny story and get appropriate laughter from folks who suffer from Alzheimer's. Even if only a percentage of them "get" the joke, I feel I've succeeded. I don't want to gear all the music and talk to the lowest common denominator.

Mooh, your situation with a part-time job that gives benefits and stability is ideal. Actually, I would love to find some additional kind of part-time work that I could do which would let me work around my music schedule. If you don't travel, a morning job in an office could be ideal. Teaching/tutoring in your own home is also a good fit.

Genie

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 02:33 AM

I know just what you mean, Genie. Very often an elderly patient will remember songs more easily than names or events. There's something about music that hits us at the most basic level. Music is healing and calming and the good work we all do in these circumstances is valued and appreciated. I found, in working with very young patients, that music so often was useful for pain management and socialization. Some of the things I did at Shriners seem almost fantastic, now. I taught a nine year old to play the guitar. Oh, did I forget to mention that he had been born without arms? I have a videotape of one of his lessons. I play it every time I think that I haven't accomplished much in my life. I wish that other folksingers could get into this rewarding field. It gives one a special audience and a new perspective.

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 11:44 AM

Mike/Genie. Uh huh, I've got at least 20 hours every week if everyone shows up, and sometimes it's more like 25. It works out very well since the day job boss is quite flexible regarding my work schedule there. With the waiting list there's some security and I could expand by about 50% if I had the jam, but honestly, 20 hours is alot for my disposition. But to answer the question, 20 hours would be all I'd do (and give up the day job) if the market would accept a doubling of my hourly instruction rates. I teach at home, so I get all the likely tax deductions, and the day job is a 5 minute bike ride away.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 02:26 PM

Mike, that's the kind of music story I love to hear. Sure beats singing in a rowdy bar with chicken wire to protect you from the audience, eh?

Mooh, I've wondered if I should explore offering guitar or singing lessons. I get approached for such by folks who hear me play and sing, but I've never followed up. I'm no virtuoso on guitar and, as for voice, I'd like to have a regular coach, myself. I am, however, quite capable of teaching beginning folk guitarists. (I've been playing for about 40 years and use a variety of styles.) They'd just need to switch to another teacher if they wanted lesson on a style I don't do (e.g., blues or classical).

The way I'd be OK with charging for lessons would be to undercut the market. (If you can afford the high-priced, virtuoso teachers, why would you pay the same for someone with less experience and ability?) I usually suggest, to folks who ask, that if they want to learn really basic guitar stuff they should get an interactive CD ROM or an instructional video; if they get through what they can learn that way and want to progress, they should consider one of the teachers whose business card is at the local music store. But not all lawyers, hairdressers, etc. are equal in skill or fee, so sometimes I think maybe I should take on a pupil or two to see if I'm any good at teaching what I know. Every teacher's gotta have a first student sometime. Whaddya think?

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 03:33 PM

Genie,

It isn't that you "can only teach beginners," it's that you "specialize in getting people started right."

We are thinking about lessons too. My theory is, charge the going rate for your area, period. The value you give is the same as the value someone "better" gives-- 1/2 hour or whatever of focused, caring attention. You can either move someone forward in their skills or you can't, and that's the actual job, not being a virtuoso yourself. YES, send them onto someone else once they have learned all you can teach, but when they get there, they will still be paying the "going" rate, and they will be replaced in your schedule by new students who heard how much fun their friends were having, and who will be eager to pay whatever you charge.

If you wait till you build up a clientele to raise your rates (when you see how much work it is to teach, and how good you are at it), you will not be able to raise the ones you have already started, and you will not be able to charge more to their friends who they refer to you without a lot of weird feelings.

Discounts for prepaid schedule-filling packages, now, or for referring people who will prepay packages, that's another story.

BTW, would your nursing hime clients let you teach at their place so you could have students everywhere you go and get more out of your driving?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 06:38 PM

Interesting idea, that last one, Susan. Most places I know of don't have much spare room for activities that don't involve the residents as a group, and if it's staff members who want lessons, they're usually on duty at the times I'd be there.

I would say, though, that pianists, barbershop quartets, folk groups, etc., sometimes rehearse in the living or dining rooms of senior facilities, without charging a fee. The performer(s) get(s) rehearsal space and the facility gets free entertainment. This can be a win-win. It can also serve as publicity for the performer(s).

Genie

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 01:08 AM

Good thinking, Susan, Mooh and Genie. Absolutely, charge the going rate in your area. Here in Philadelphia, I charge $35 an hour and I am quite reasonable. Your value, as a teacher, is not based on how well you play, it's how well you teach and if your students enjoy their lessons. That's one area that is ignored by many teachers. Your students want to learn, of course, but, mostly, they want to enjoy the experience. In addition to the weekly lessons, I have a student sing about every six weeks, on a Sunday afternoon. I think it's important for new musicians to play with other musicians as a learning tool and as a way to just have fun with what they've learned. I started having the sings at my house but I dont have enough room for ten to twenty guitarists, mandolinists and banjo pluckers to play without a lot of bumping into one another. Now, the students with large homes take turns hosting the sings, which have gotten so damned popular that we're getting crowded again. We have come up with some really good ideas for the sing which I would tell you about but I have a typing limit and I have reached it. Laila tov (Good night)

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Marion
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 04:26 PM

Thanks Susan and Genie for responding to my question above. Actually I got the cheque since then; turns out the culprit was my landladies' catsitter who was inadvertently stealing my mail.

Great thread.

Marion

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 04:53 PM

A couple of observations...

An instructor of fretted instruments needs to have significantly more experience and ability than the level of skill they instruct. This to recognize tuning, technique(!), ear, and other concerns as they occur.

Those who teach for free, and I've encountered one as provided by a fundamentalist church for its flock, are usually worth what they charge, and students know it. To a much lesser extent, undercutting the marketplace will indicate a possible undercutting of the learning process. So, though it's okay to charge less, stay in the ballpark, offer "introductory" lessons, and play (teach) to your strengths.

When in doubt get professional help. ie, if you don't know squat about technique, as is common in guitarland, consult a pro so that you don't contribute to the proliferation of ineffecient technique. "Professional development" (I hate that expression for some reason) should be part of the plan anyway.

The only fee structure that has ever worked for me is to charge by the hour (sometimes, but rarely 1/2 hour). Charging by the level/ability/degree of difficulty is bogus. My time has the same value whether it's for a rank beginner, advanced player, or learning disabled. Raise your rates all at once at one time of the year. I only raise mine at September 1. Besides, it makes book-keeping so much easier.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Ferrara
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 10:10 PM

Thanks all, this thread is a gold mine of ideas and inspiration. Haven't felt so optimistic in a long time.

There have been two themes in this thread that really ring a bell for me. The first is performing for nursing homes and/or retirement communities, which has always seemed like a natural thing for me to pursue because I have a big repertoire of pre-1960 pop and parlor songs. And I have played (for free) for geriatric patients with some dementia, and was able to get them involved with the music. But I didn't think that kind of institution ever paid for entertainment.

The second, is working in the schools. I used to play (zither and zither-harp) for my son's elementary school classes. They adored it! I'll never forget the beaming smiles on their faces. The first time I played a song on the zither, they wanted me to play the same song again immediately!

And I have learned, that the zither-harp (Macarthur harp, actually) is great for French folk songs. I have had a secret desire (my fantasies are pretty innocent, I guess....) to teach some of the best-known French folk songs to middle and high school French classes. When I was that age, teachers tended to teach us songs. Nowadays I think they're too busy getting kids ready for their standardized tests.... Maybe not. Still I would love to do this.

I'm not expecting to get into either field instantly, but at least I see that there are a lot of concrete things I can do, both to investigate whether either of these ideas is feasible, and to make necessary preparations.

I don't have the energy/stamina to do a full day's music, I don't think. But boy, would I love to see what I can do.

Many thanks to Genie BTW for sending me more specifics when I contacted her. This thread and its offshoot about nursing homes are just incredibly useful to me right now.

Rita

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 10:39 PM

The "down" side of this line of work is that one tends to spend every waking moment doing something wich relates to the whole. I find myself having schedule leisure time because this is, by its nature, a labor intensive buisness. Whether booking, bookkeeping, repetoire maintenance, equipment maintenance, or any one of a couple dozen other jobs, there is ALWAYS something that needs doing.

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: GUEST,Frogmore
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 10:54 PM

I'm too busy to read all of this thread now.....but I caught Art's new pun: "day job vu". Yeah. I play out - mostly solo nowadays - but am currently a videographer, columnist, Realtor, and wheeler-dealer of lots of stuff I can't help collecting. In the past I've owned a used record shop, been a crabber, shrimper, scalloper, and oyster-dealer, done house-painting, hod carrying, and carpentry, laid pipe, been a public school teacher, a salesman, a toy domonstrator, a night-watchman, world traveler ... and a father. That's what I'm proudest of. My first love will always be performing -with pals or alone. And I've been at that over 30 years. At least I'm in no danger of running out of topics to write about. To tell the truth, I don't draw a distinction between "work" and "play". I divide my life into two things I label "sleeping" and "being awake". I'm about to do the first one right now.

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 11:33 PM

If you are interested in doing nursing homes or retirement communities, you will be happier and less harried if you use the services of an agent. The commisions that you will pay are more than worth the work you will avoid. I work for two different agents who specialize in senior citizen facilities. One agent charges the facility a flat fee and pays me directly. The other charges me a percentage of my fee. I never try to screw an agent by passing out my own business card at a agency job and, if a facility that I have played through an agent tries to hire me directly, I refuse, politely. I understand that these jobs are not as high paying as other jobs and I know that when I pay a commision, I am recieving even less than I might but, I can assure you that I wind up with more money at the end of the year and my life is much easier than it would be if I had to do my own booking. Here's a hint. You will need a small sound system that is sufficient and portable. You will have to dress appropriately (not like a folksinger), recreators care about things like that. You will have to be super dependable, many activity directors consider reliability the numero uno trait. Good luck.

Mike Miller

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 01:22 AM

Mike, You've hit a couple of nails on the head. I would gladly use an agent if their cut was reasonable, since the booking and confirmation is a major time expenditure (and sometimes a major headache.) I'm not sure there are such folks in the Portland and Seattle areas, though. I've never had an activity director acknowledge booking through an agent. (Some folks do work through the community colleges' music therapy programs, but the little experience I have with them suggests that they tend to set up untenable schedules-- like having you in one location every Wed. at 10 AM and in another location 30 miles away at 2 PM. When I set up my own schedules, I usually do a better job of grouping them by location.)

You're right about the dependability thing-- which is something that makes this type of job pay even less per hour than one might think. To be sure of getting to each of these short (usually 1-hour) gigs on time, you almost need to plan on arriving 30 minutes ahead of time for each. (A lot of facilities do music only on Fridays at mid-afternoon -- the absolute worst of the rush hour traffic, for instance.) That can mean adding an extra 90 minutes or more to your work day. You can cut it less slack, but if you are late, you may lose a client permanently.

This is, BTW, one reason a lot of facilities prefer to hire musicians instead of using volunteers. Volunteers, I'm told by activity directors, have a bad habit of pulling no-shows or showing up whenever they're good and ready.

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 10:14 PM

I dont know about the market in your area, Genie. Here in Philadelphia there are at least two full time agents who specialize in the senior facility market. There are also a number of performers who farm out the jobs that they cant handle. Most of those performers work in clubs and restaurants doing what are called power solos. Are you registered with the regular booking agents in your town? When I lived in Los Angeles, I hooked up with an agent who worked in the Jewish market and another who did part time agenting inthe seniors market. Here, at home, I have,also, gotten work from an agent who seems to specialize in Atlantic City casinos, an agent who works, exclusively, with large, industrial and civic events and an agency that occasionally gets me country club dates. There are all kinds of agents. I use them all and I treasure them all. I dont care if they are making more money than they should on my jobs. Hell, I hope they're making a bundle.

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 11:14 PM

So you can have more than one agent????? It isn't that you go with one who represents you totally? They have niche markets?

More like... booking brokers?

~Learning Fast, Keep It Coming Babee!

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 02:16 AM

Mike, I know there are agents that do this sort of thing for areas like Palm Springs, LA, and probably Sun City and other ares that have a lot of high-priced retirement communities, but I'm not aware of any in the Portland area. The high-priced acts -- some concert pianists, bands, etc.--probably are booked by agents, but as I said, I've been told that most facilities hire only one or two such acts per year, if at all.

It's different for people who are primarily instrumentalists, I think. Hotels, country clubs, and even some malls and department stores hire harpists, pianists, classical guitarists, saxophone players, etc., as mainly background music for their patrons. (I have a friend who is a jazz pianist but who can also do classical. Most of her JOBS are at retirement homes, for about $60 per hour, but she gets $300 or more for an evening at a country club (probably 3 or 4 hours, with breaks between sets. Now that she's moved to Chicago, she probably gets higher pay.)

Question is: how do you find out whether there are agents in a given area, what their specialties are, etc.? And do most agents have a waiting list for new clients?

BTW, what is a "power solo" exactly?

One type of performer I'm increasingly in competition with is the technologically-enhanced performer -- a sort of high-tech one-man band. These folks use sampling keyboards, rhythm machines, and gadgets that add harmonies to their voices, etc. Problem is, aside from the initial cost of such equipment, learning to USE it is almost like learning a new instrument!

I'm also curious as to how folks go about getting private party gigs. I've done a couple from word-of-mouth referrals, and I have a friend who advertises in the Yellow Pages and gets gigs, but that's pretty expensive. Any other info or ideas?

As Susan said, "learning fast. Keep it coming!"

Genie

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 04:09 AM

OK, questions will be answered in order. Susan, booking agents are not, generally exclusive representatives of a particular artist, at least they aren't at my level. The agents who handle senior facilities, for example, advertise their service to the facilities and use the performers as their "product". They may charge a straight fee or, as is more common, a percentage of the performer's fee. They provide jobs for the performers and some protection against non-payments and late payments. They provide, for the facility, pre-tested performers, replacements if needed and relief from the tedium of looking and booking acts. Agents, if they are wise, concentrate on a few markets, building a reputation for reliability and taste. Clients are creatures of habit. If they are satisfied with an agents acts, they will continue to use that agent. Word of mouth, in the industry, can make or break an agent (it can do the same for a performer). Genie, a power solo is just what you described, a keyboard player who has enhanced his sound with various electronic goodies which I neither understand or appreciate. These folks play clubs, restaurants, parties and the like. They also do nursing homes because nursing home gigs are usually scheduled mornings or afternoons, times when their other jobs are not. But dont think that they have an advantage over you because they have all that expensive eqiptment. I work with a guitar and a banjo and I do lots of these jobs. If you have a good act, and you dress properly, and you're dependable, the facilities will want you back. Plus, when they ask for you specificly, you can get more money. It's all supply and demand. When I'm wider awake, I'll cover how to find agents. It aint real dificult. Booking agents, especially in the seniors field, are always looking for new acts to sell.

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 12:52 AM

Full time agents are listed in the phone directory. They are liscenced and they pay a business privaledge tax. If you cant find them (check under "Entertainment" and "Theatrical Agencies") in the Yellow Pages, they will be listed with the local chapter of the musicians union. The more legitimate the agent, the more the jobs pay. Advertising is expensive and, usually, not cost effective. You would do better just contacting facilities directly. I know quite a few performers who have established a good client base by simply calling nursing homes and talking to the activity directors. I am too damn lazy to go that route so I just hung in there long enough to get a reputation in the industry and among the agents. Talk to the performers who do power solos in nursing homes. You can make headway by starting out as a "disappointment act", that is a replacement for acts who have to cancel at the last minute. Once you are in a position to, actually, do your act in front of an audience for real money, dont forget to follow up a successful performance with a suggestion that you be re-hired and some leads for other facilities. Nothing is better advertising than the reccomendation of a satisfied customer. I used to live with a juggler who built a terrific business for his troup. He told me that the definition of a successful job is that it generates another job.

By the way, what kind of act do you do? Do you do specialties like children's shows. ethnic programs, patriotic themes? When you promote yourself, it helps to have a name or theme that is easily understood by the potential customer. It isn't enough to say Genie, the Folksinger. That is too general for most clients.

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 02:05 AM

Mike, if your advice/questions were addressed to me, let me say that I began actively soliciting gigs at senior facilities about 8 years ago, using mainly the Yellow Pages and sending out flyers (initially one typed on a typewriter with a hand-drawn cartoon and then xeroxed).  My business grew with amazing speed.  All my calendars and bookkeeping were done by hand.

Since then I've gone cyber and I now fax most of my flyers (computer generated, with a scanned photo) and playlists.  (My flyer has a section for how to contact me; a list of my musical styles; a list of some sample theme programs available; a list of some kinds of programs I do [e.g., 1-to-1 music therapy;  group music therapy; dinner and party music; sing-alongs; concerts]; and a brief note about my sliding scale fee structure.  One neat thing about a computer generated flyer is that I can customize it easily to fit the client in quetion.) My calendar, data base, and all business records are also done on the computer -- but backed up frequently with hard copies.

Contacting activity directors directly is not really hard--it just takes a lot of time.  And, since activity directors tend to be reachable during the hours when I'm usually doing my programs, there's a kind of catch 22:  the more successful I am at booking programs, the harder it is to book more programs!

One bit of advice I'd give that's particularly pertinent to senior facilities is to follow up on a successful engagement ASAP!  All audiences have limited memory spans.  (What was the name of that soloist you heard in church last Sunday?)  It's even more so when you're dealing with folks over the age of 75.  They can rave about you during and right after a program and, when you call back 6 months later, the activity director will say "We just had resident council and you weren't one of the people they asked me to book again."  This is not surprising, given the 6 month lag between their exposure to you and the council meeting in question.

Residents will often come up to ME after a program and tell me that they want me to come back.  I've learned to tell them--and emphasize-- that I'd love to, but it's not up to me.  I'll say, "I'd love to come back.  So-and-so (the activity director) listens to what you folks tell her you want.  S/he will invite me back if you tell her you'd like me back."

I would gladly pay 10% to 20% to a good agent, though, if it would take the booking burden off my back and leave me free to develop my programs (and maybe have a life, too).  Question is, would anyone do all this work for such a small amount?  My schedule is quite complicated, given that I cover a relatively wide geographic area and need to consolidate gigs within close proximity to each other as much as possible.  (E.g., on the Friday before St. Patrick's Day, I may do 6 1-hour programs, and having them distributed properly by time and location is crucial.)

Another reason for using an agent:  I HATE sales!  I especially hate tyring to promote myself.  And getting straight, honest feedback from people can be hard.  I think an agent is more likely to be given such honest feedback (e.g., "We don't think we'll hire X again, because...") than the performer is, and the agent is also in a better position to tout your strengths than you are.  (People who are averse to giving negative feedback can waste a lot of their time and yours by being evasive about rebooking when they have no intention of ever doing so.  And being rebooked is not a simple matter of how good you are; it can have to do with your not doing the styles they were looking for or having your amp too loud, etc.  Or it can simply be because they've decided to go with another performer as a regular.)

Personally, I'd like to find an agent or agents who could not only handle the PR and booking tedium for my retirement home clients but also get me gigs later in the evening--at coffee houses, bars, etc. , to fill out my calendar, as it were.

I do appreciate your info, Mike.  I'll check to see what agents there are in the Portland area and how they operate.

Genie

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 09:45 AM

On the "what kinda folk performer are ya?" angle--

Our flyers and PR now include this phrase in smaller type, under our band name:

~ Your Old-Fashioned Sing-Along Band ~

It's cleared up a lot of confusion and short-cutted a lot of explaining.

It has also pointed us to our most potentially-productive niche market-- no one else here is doing anything for children and their desperate-for-activities parents. To that end, our spring Event will be a house concert on the lawn.... a children's singalong.

Another thing-- our band has this reality to face: Our music is not the product. OUR producet is, in fact, not really music at all. OUR product is THE OPPORUTNITY TO HAVE A GOOD TIME. That means, now that I am moving into the entrepreneur part of my mind as far as our music is concerned, that the WHOLE event is the medium for the delivery of the product.... it means I have to think less like an autoharp player, and more like a producer... I have to stage us within the right events, and plan them myself if they are not out there to be hired for. (Luckily for me, they are NOT out there, in this area.)

And that gives me ALL the percentage cuts-- I am the performer, the organizer, the venue owner, the agent, etc. (Except for the money I pay band mates.)

Example: That means that our lawn event will include a food concession (give me my cut), games (give me my cut), children's music tapes and songbooks (at my markup), and so forth.... and that we will not do it at 1 PM, we will do it at FOUR o'clock, because then we can sell hot dogs!

The biggest block in my thinking, it turns out, had been not seeing that our home is the venue-- I had been trying to build things up to where our church would be the venue. The church is available LATER if we need something that big, but until I develop a following for ALL the folk activities I am starting from our house (jams, lessons, house concerts, doing press kits, etc.), people will NOT come to them at the church... Here, people do not go to things at a church they don't belong to, until it seems normal to them to go there.... they have to know US first.

If you can imagine a home being in somewhat permanent Mudcat-gathering mode, that's how it seems... only people PAY for their good time.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 10:05 AM

Cool concept, Susan. Now, how can you best take it on the road? Reminds me, in a way, of the old time medicine shows, where the folks would bring the entire package into a small town and get everyone involved.

Do you have a lot of unpitched percussion instuments for you audience (kids and adults) to play? There are also a lot of Orff type instruments that are played with just a little instruction, such as metalaphones, glockenspiels, zylaphones, etc. where bars can be removed to heep the folks in the right key. Get a few of those things going with what you allready are doing and, band, instant (or close to it) audience participation... Even lap dulcimers are relatively easy to play basic stuff.

Just ideas.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 10:14 AM

Got 'em.

No need to go on the road for now... but we have been talking for several years now about 2009. Hardi retires then from fulltime clergywork. Would you like a workshop on strategic planning? We'll be there next month. Would you also like some music? What kind?

But to answer your question on HOW....? Winnebago.

~S~

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 05:06 PM

Good ideas, Susan. I do not envy you your responsibilties but I am in awe of your energy. Genie, you seem to have some really good ideas and a good, professional outlook. May I suggest that you look for jobs in the next step up (moneywise) the gig ladder, retirement communities, condominiums, travel clubs and the like. They tend to pay more for entertainment because, unlike nursing homes, the audience is the customer. If I knew what your act was, I could offer more specific suggestions.

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Marion
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 11:06 PM

Genie said to "follow up on a successful engagement ASAP." What exactly does it mean to "follow up"?

Musicmic suggested looking for work at condominiums and travel clubs. What are travel clubs? And I thought condominiums were basically apartments that you buy instead of rent - do they hire entertainment for the common areas?

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: musicmick
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 01:29 AM

Hi, Marion, Condos are what you think they are. Many condo buildings have common rooms that are used for communal activities like meetings, card games and such. Lots of these condos have special events (especially when the residents are retirees) and they hire entertainment for their meetings and for special events. I like condo jobs. They pay more than nursing homes and the audience is higher functioning and more responsive. Travel clubs are small orginizations of seniors who plan social events often involving travel to theaters, restaurants, casinos, etc. They meet weekly at places like community centers, library halls, municipal facilities. At their meetings, they usually have an entertainer. They have names like the Wednesday Travel Club or the Good Times Monday Travel Club, well you get the idea. They like a variety of acts so I cant work at the same travel club more than once a year but there are enough of them that I still do, at least, one every month, sometimes two or three. There are an awful lot of senior venues in any large community and they all hire performers.

Mike

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 04:26 AM

Susan, Hear, hear!!!  People (facilities) pay for entertainment (and/or, in the case of things in the music therapy vein, getting the residents involved)--not for the music per se.  I'll be the first to admit that there are others out there who sing better than I, those who play their instruments more expertly, some who do both better, and a lot who are younger and better looking.  What I do is involve the audience--which is especially important when doing programs for folks with low-level depression, dementia, memory loss, etc.  And, of course, it's especially true with children.  If I can make them laugh, it's far more important than technical perfection.   Sometimes making them cry is just as good.

Mike, I already do a good deal of music for upscale retirement communities, as opposed to just nursing homes.  E.g., last Thursday I did a "Full Moon Concert" for The Gardens At Town Square in Bellevue, WA -- an outdoor concert and fancy hors d'oeuvres kind of party, with an audience of about 60 to 75 people (ages 30s to 80s, I'd say, since a lot of family members were there).  These bookings do pay more than the rehab. centers and nursing homes do, but they tend to book programs far less frequently.  I am most definitely interested, though, in expanding these and in adding more condominium, private party, travel club (whatever they are), "critter club," and coffee house/bar gigs.  I'll PM you more detail.  If you have a fax #, I'll fax you one of my flyers and some sample playlists.

Marion, what I meant by "follow up ASAP" is that if I finish a gig and folks are clamoring for me to return, I should call the activity director the next day and begin negotiations for the next booking, while folks are "still under the ether," as they say in the sales profession.  If that's not feasible, at least  it's a good idea to write, fax, or call to inquire about future bookings within the week after the gig.  In the music business, as in love, there definitely is the "out-of-sight-out-of-mind" phenomenon.  Plus, (I hate to say it) in the retirement home business, if you try to contact in December the audience that loved you in May, half of them may have died, or at least moved to a different facility, and the activity director along with them.  You really can have to keep 'reinventing the wheel' if you don't act in a very timely manner to build upon your successes.

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Marion
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 02:51 AM

Thanks for the description of travel clubs, Mike, I hadn't heard that expression before.

Genie, so what do you say when you call the next day? It seems to me that the director's reaction might be "why are you calling so soon? You were just here!" but what do I know?

Marion

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Genie
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 03:09 AM

Marion, often I don't call--I fax them a list of my available times/dates for the next few months and a note asking them to call me when they are booking future months.

Whether by phone or in a fax, I'll say that I really enjoyed doing music with the residents and I'd love to return when they have a spot open for me in their calendar. If the A. D. says "I'm full for August and haven't started on September yet," I say something like "I'd really like to be considered for September or October, but I don't want to take up your time, since I know how busy you are. When should I contact you about booking for another month?"

(If it's May and they say they're already booked through August but won't start on September until July 31, I'll probably contact them again late June.)

Genie

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 04:32 PM

I performed professionally for 12 years but that ended 20 years ago when I got married, had kids, real job, etc. Last year I bought a small PA with plans to play out again just a few times a month. First time out playing one song at my cousins wedding last night. I had in mind playing in nursing homes once or twice a month to help me get back in shape and to "give back" a little. Never considered charging but after reading posts here I may reconsider! Found this site today and was also interested in the few posts regarding teaching guitar. My question: "Are any of you teaching guitar without reading music?". I've been asked many times to teach, but I've always declined because I don't read. Any thoughts appreciated...Rick in Atlanta

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Frankham
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 05:48 PM

Genie,

This is an informative and important thread. Those of you who do senior assisted living and nursing homes are probably aware of the good that you do. Someone invariably asks my wife and I where we are playing. So we say, "Well if you don't mind getting up at 6 or 7 in the morning you can see us at X elementary school." It's difficult to invite them to a senior assisted living or nursing home. In short, the public doesn't know what we do.

Harold Leventhal, bless his heart, is a wonderful guy and great impresario. But yes you can make a living at singing folk music as long as you broaden your definition. It isn't all concert halls and coffee houses as you have stated.
My definition of folk music is that it's "accessible". That's why it survives and people always like it pretty much when they hear it unless they have an agenda.

One of the most important things is that you are having fun with it. The other thing about playing assisted living, schools, nursing homes etc. is that you'll be better off if you care about the people you're playing for. It's not just another gig.

From what I've been able to gather, the music scene is different from one place to the next. As to pricing, first ask yourself what you need. Then stick to it. Eventually you'll get hired. Unfortunately, the denegrating view of the arts in society has to do with how much you think you are worth. I say this because how can you put a real value on art? But you are forced to do it. Don't sell yourself short but don't price yourself out of the market. It really comes down to how much you do is worth it to you.

Perhaps, no one is going to get rich doing this but sometimes you'll do OK.
See Harold is talking to young people who used to take off and travel because Pete Seeger said that this is the way to see the world. This is what Pete did. That worked in the forties and early fifties but times have changed.
You can't hitch hike any more or hop freight cars to get around. Far too dangerous. RV's eat up a lot of gas. Airlines break instruments. But someone always wants to hear and participate in music. You have to find your own market and what works for one person doesn't necessarilly work for another.

Nevertheless, all these ideas are good. Mike, we prefer to stay away from agents. Bad experiences. Personal contact is always the most effective way, I think. Genie, it sounds as though you are doing just fine. When you get enough gigs, just notch your price up a little. You've earned it. Use some of your money to kick back into your business. Learn some more guitar, or singing lessons, or research material. Upgrade your business.

Regarding teaching, this has been covered but I like teaching classes the best. I have them in my home. I like a lot of people playing and singing together and that's why I went back into teaching after having been burnt out with it. I'll probably never teach a student one-on-one again. People really need to learn how to play and sing and make music together.

Finally, I have found so many fine musicians who have day jobs. This certainly is true for the community of amateur performers known as "folk singers".

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 04:20 PM

Refresh-- posts are out of order but you can open them one at a time IN ORDER in a new window by right-clicking the links to each post as you discern their proper order, in the post list at the top of the page.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 01:21 AM

What a wonderful thread. I am a full-time folksinger based in Fort Worth, Texas and I, too, have a day job - performing at retirement
centers, nursing homes and such; and frankly, without them I'd be economically dead in the water.

It is really nice to know that there are folks out there who encounter the same problems that I do - late checks, A/D changes, double-bookings and all the other stuff. I also perform at coffeehouses, pubs and Irish festivals; however, the Irish frenzy has died down and so has the number of pubs; I perform very little of my own material, so the coffeehouses are not interested in my show and I only do about eight to ten festivals a year and that's not enough to keep 'er afloat, so retirement homes it is.

Down here the residential corporations put you in the category of "vendor" so you get paid usually three to four weeks out from the show; but, I had one place that didn't pay after a six week period and when I called the A/P department of the corporation I was advised that they could not guarantee when I would get paid - I then went directly to the CEO and was paid within a week. I always send my invoices out in the middle of the month preceeding the performance month and, as a result, sometimes I'm paid several weeks in advance.
Hell, I even showed up for a gig in September only find someone else
playing and the activity director (A/D) unlike most, insisted on paying me because the double-booking was her fault; however, I still haven't seen the check.

Activity directors are a real trip. They are always in meetings when you call; tell you they will call you and don't; quit without taking care that your invoices get submitted so your're paid on time - it is really a big pain in the neck to deal with these folks on a regular basis. Having said that, there are many of them who treat the entertainment very well and go out of their way to insure that you're taken care of - the rest are, well, kinda like bad club owners.

Even with all the above - I really enjoy playing these facilities.
The folks who are in the "independent" units can come and go as they wish and they will let you know if they like what you do. They will also listen to every word and note of every song or story you do and they'll applaud, too - unlike a lot of the pubs. For the folks in the assisted living and/or dementia units, well, you just leave your ego at the door (as you should on every gig) go in and play, and get
immeasureable satisfaction for doing it - it's just a joy to be able to bring out even a little response from some of the old folk who are not as well off as they used to be. It always breaks my heart, too, that the damed corporations pay less for these units. I feel it's because of the residents poorer condition - and they get away with it. It's a shame, because the residents may not be as functional as they used to be, but they have hearts and ears and smiles and tears,...and they deserve better.

As for the union, I am a union member but Texas is a "right to work"
state so the union has little or no authority. You need to be a member to do some gigs in Fort Worth but not very many. I have been fortunate to get booked into a large "union" festival here every year since joining and that one gig more than pays my dues.

My bank's not overflowing from me down here, but I'm gettin' by. I charge basically $100 an hour and do negotiating down from there when necessary - some facilities do pay much more, though. As for the cheaper units, for 2006 I am still going in at $100 but will offer to come in for a half-hour show at $50 if their budget is small.

Hang in there Genie (you are right on the money with what you wrote) and we'll see you somewhere along the path...............mwh

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 02:45 AM

Nursing homes are more & more being bought up by huge corporations which give the Activities Directors very little money to run their activities department. Having been in the job before, I can tell you that one place I worked gave me $100 per month for all the activities. I always asked my performers if a check was ok or if they wanted cash. Try to imagine dividing $20 between a dozen people in your band. The residents of nursing homes have little or no cash money they can spend. The residents of Senior apartments usually have money of their own to spend if Musicians are selling recordings. Many of them prefer tapes to CDs.
    The Senior apartment residences are the places which have the most money for entertainers, but singing for seniors won't make much money, most people do it as more of a "labor of love."
   For what it's worth, there is very little time for the Activities Director to be at her desk. I rarely had more than 1/2 an hour a day-if that, which was usually my lunchtime. Most of the time I called my volunteers & entertainers before they could call me. I gave them all my home number. The rest of the time was spent in my duties which entailed much more than the daily activities on the calendar. One on one visits with residents who were bedfast, of which there are always many are required, as they should be. Endless charting which is the law--as part of the duties, monthly charting must be done on the medical chart of every resident to document their ability to participate, how much they participate, what is being done to improve their socialization, etc., etc. If I did 10 a day, I might be able to get them all done each month before it was time to begin charting for the next month. If the Social Services director was ill or the position vacant, I did their job, too. When I did both jobs, I never sat down! Some nursing homes where I worked, I was expected to assist with feeding residents at mealtimes & getting them to & from the dining hall. If the entertainer did not show up, & pushed a piano into a lounge or grabbed my guitar & sang. If a minister couldn't make it, I led services.
   When I left that line of work, & taught lessons at home, it took over 6 months for my swollen feet to go back down 2 sizes to their normal size. It's not the easiest job, & the pay ain't great, but I always enjoyed the seniors.

Subject: RE: Music: Your Day Job
From: Mooh
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:45 AM

I play for seniors twice a month at a municipal (county) home. These aren't well-to-do folks at all, and many are too infirm for the outside activities the more active get. My duo mate, a fiddler, actually works at the home in the activities department so she's paid anyway, but these gigs act as practices for us as well as entertainment. I'm not paid monetarily, but I know how the residents appreciate us. (Besides, what the home has to offer in money is chicken-shit, and it's worth my time to use the gig as practice time.) We play right before lunch and from what I hear it helps the residents get alert and ready to eat. I find them much easier to entertain at that hour as they're often too sleepy in the evening.

I'm doing okay financially this year and last teaching private guitar, bass, and mandolin lessons full time, after a few years doing it part time. The future looks good too, so I think I'll stay at it...best job I ever had. It feels weird (though somehow just) to be basically a folk musician earning a full time living at this in rural Ontario.

Peace, Mooh.