Subject: RE: Hugill/Dana's missing shanties
From:
GUEST,Brian
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:20 AM
This could prove to be a right hornets nest.
We are all aware that traditional folk songs have regional and time variants to text, tune and title. With shanties multiply that by some and then some more.
The best Hugill could do was associate the titles of shanties that he knew, with titles mentioned by Dana. Whether they were the same shanties, or not, is anybodys guess. Similarly, shanties mentioned by Dana may still exist under other titles. To complicate that further, we do not know if the titles given by Dana were in common usage, or whether they were merely of his own reference.
Two Years Before the Mast is an excellent read, but it says nothing other than we sung this or that song. There are no lines quoted from the shanties other than title.
What I will say about shanties, is that over the last twenty something years that I've looked into them, the more I've learned the less I KNOW. Too many people try to give definative answers, because they read it in this book or that book. Hugill, Whall, Terry, Doeflinger etc. could only give a snapshot as an example from their own time. None of them say THIS is THE correct version.
The very nature of the job of shantyman, and purpose of the shanties themselves made them a very fluid form. To try to pin that down to definatives is like trying to glue wind to a wall. If you succeed it ain't wind, and if you don't it keeps moving and changing.
The job of the shantyman was to get the maximum amount of work out of the minimum number of bodies, by setting the pace and rhythm of the tasks, and maintaining moral. The length of time any job would take would depend on a number of factors, number of men, their physical condition, weather etc. So on any two days, the same job may take different lengths of time, and consequently, the number of verses of any shanty bawled out by the same shantyman would vary. Verses would be dropped, added in, borrowed, or made up as required. Multiply that by the number shantymen there were over a how ever long shanties were sung (a whole new debate), and however many lanuages they were sung in. Titles too, were more a common term of reference than actual title. So two shantymen on different ships, may well have known the same shanty by different 'titles'. Compare this picture with some of the adament answers expressed in the Yellar Girls thread! mmmmm!
I said it was a hornets nest! Sorry I can't actually answer your question, Greg. Still perhaps the next person who posts can give the definative answer.
Personally, I find the vast number of possibilities makes the subject much richer than knowing all there is to know about folk music. A few lost shanties, or maybe unassociated titles is a small price to pay.
Good hunting
Brian
|
sj
&id=15344.gif&seq=1&size=0){kind=link}