Origin: All for Me Grog

Subject: All for me grog
From:
Date: 27 Jun 98 - 02:27 PM

I am looking for information regarding the song All For Me Grog, which I learned from a Clancy Brothers CD. I really like the song, and I have plans to record it for a debut album. In the case of the Clancy's version, I would have to get the mechanical rights to do so.

However, I've noticed the song exists in a traditional form and I may not have to bother with rights depending on my choice of lyrics.

I suspected this song may be a traditional piece which existed prior to the Clancy Brother's version because I've heard it performed at Renaissance faires with completely different verses.

Anyone who has any details regarding this songs history, please contact me privately at: [e-mail] or visit my web site at: www.mindspeak.com

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Bruce O.
Date: 27 Jun 98 - 02:58 PM

Version in DT as "Here's to the Grog"

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Barbara
Date: 27 Jun 98 - 08:28 PM

The song All for me grog was collected by Kidson and Moffat from a Yorkshire sailor and publish in English Peasnt Songs in 1929.

Peter Kennedy has it as a variant of Here's to the Grog in the Folksongs of Britain and Ireland.

So I guess that you could say that it's traditional, it's the arrangement that isn't.

Subject: Lyr Add:: ALL FOR ME GROG (Australian version)^^
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 27 Jun 98 - 09:13 PM

G'day,
Here's the Aussie version:-

ALL FOR ME GROG

Well I am a ramblin' lad me story it is sad
If ever I get to Lachlan I should wonder
For I spent all me brass in the bottom of the glass
And across the western plains I must wander.

And it's all for me grog, me jolly jolly grog
It's all for me beer and tobacco
For I spent all me tin in a shanty drinking gin
Now across the western plains I must wander.

Well I'm stiff, stony broke and I've parted from me moke
And the sky is lookin' black as flamin' thunder
The shanty boss is blue 'cause I haven't got a sou
That's the way they treat you when you're down and under.

I'm crook in the head and I haven't been to bed
Since first I touched this shanty with me plunder
I see centipedes and snakes, and I'm full of aches and shakes
And I think it's time to push for way out yonder.

I'll take to the Old Man Plain, and criss-cross him once again
Until me eyes the track no longer see boys
And me beer and whiskey brain search for sleep but all in vain
And I feel as if I've had the Darling Pea boys.

So it's hang yer jolly grog, yer hocussed shanty grog
The beer that is loaded with tobacco
Graftin' humour I am in, and I'll stick the peg right in
And settle down once more to some hard yakka.^^

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: rosebrook
Date: 28 Jun 98 - 01:48 AM

From a crew member of the tall ship Lady Washington, I learned the non-smoking (though who wants to be be PC singing a raunchy beer guzzling song?!) chorus which goes:

And it's all for me grog, me jolly, jolly grog
All for me beer and expresso...

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Jun 98 - 10:31 PM

Vice Admiral Sir Edward Vernon, England's hero of the 1739 War Of Jenkins's Ear, was nickname Old Grog because of an impressive grogam cloak he wore on deck in all weather. In 1740 with half the punishments handed down by the Brittish Navy involved drunkeness, Old Grog issued an order, to curb the drunkness on board ships of his own command, that rum be diluted with water, 1/2 pint rations, split to be given 6 hrs apart, in anger & protest this mix bares his nickname, this became the ration for the Royal Navy. Rum will also not stay long after being watered down, so there'd be no use to try & save up rations. Here's to your health, Barry

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Pete M
Date: 29 Jun 98 - 04:38 AM

Quite right Barry, I would also add that the ommisson of a reference to 'baccy as a stand on non smoking misses the point. Any one caught smoking on a ship of the line would probably have been hung for gross negligence endangering His Majestys' Ship. Fire always was and remains the greatest danger on a ship. 'Baccy was chewed, with at least on merchant men, spitoons being provided alongside the wheel for use by the helmsman. Anyone caught spitting on the deck would likewise be flogged. The whiteness of the decks was a measure of the capability of the First Lieutenant: "Six days shalt thou labour and do all that thou has to do. On the Seventh thou shalt holystone the decks and clean out the chain locker." One other titbit of Naval lore. Although the hands were mustered for Divine service on Sunday, this was of secondary importance to the reading of the Articles of War, read aloud to ensure that no enlisted man could claim ignorance of them. The majority of the articles had as penalty "Death or such lesser punishment as the court may decide."

Pete M

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: O'Boyle
Date: 30 Jun 98 - 09:21 PM

The band the Wake does a chorus that begins "Where is my dick..." so it's all open to interpretation.

Slainte

Rick

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Apr 99 - 02:07 PM

Refresh. Barry

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: MMario
Date: 05 Apr 99 - 02:49 PM

I have heard this sung with several alternate lines in the chorus:

I've spent all me tin on the lassies drinkin' gin

I've spent all me brass on a pretty little lass

I've spent all me gold on a lassie that is bold

MMario

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 05 Apr 99 - 03:01 PM

I collected a version in Connecticut, which I finally got on tape after the singer had moved to New Hampshire. It was learned from the grandfather of the singer, a man who lived in South Carolina. It's slower, more pensive, and says:

I spent all I had in cash on the girls to cut a dash,
Now I'm left in this wide world to wander.

Bruce or Barry may correct me, but this is the only version I know of that has been collected in the U.S. I'd be happy to post the text, if anyone is interested, but I can't do the music thing.

Sandy

Subject: DTADD: ALL FOR ME GROG (Australian version)
From: Twilight
Date: 05 Apr 99 - 04:06 PM

I just posted this for leprechaun in the thread 'me jolly jolly grog', but I thought maybe I should stick it here too (if not then I'm sorry about getting your thread wrong, I'm new to all of this)

The Oz version of 'All for me grog' is reworked from a sailor's song 'Noggin Boots' or 'Across the Western Ocean'. I tried finding the sailor version in the database, but it wouldn't let me search for anything today, so I've copied what I have:

ALL FOR ME GROG

Chorus:
Well it's all for me grog, me jolly jolly grog
It's all for me beer and tobacco
For I spent all me tin with the lassies drinking gin
Far across the western ocean I must wander

1:
Where are me boots, me noggin', noggin' boots?
They're all gone for beer and tobacco
For the heels they are worn out and the toes are kicked about
And the soles are looking out for better weather

(Chorus)

2:
Where is me shirt, my noggin', noggin' shirt?
It's all gone for beer and tobacco
For the collar is all worn, and the sleeves they are all torn
And the tail is looking out for better weather

(Chorus)

4: I'm sick in the head and I haven't been to bed
Since first I came ashore with me slumber
For I spent all me dough on the lassies don't you know
Far across the Western Ocean I must wander

I've also heard it sung with the third verse about the wife:

3: Where is me wife, me noggin', noggin' wife?
She's all gone for beer and tobacco
Well her front it got worn out, and her tail end knocked about
And I think she's looking out for better weather

Or the third verse about the bed:

3: Where is me bed, me noggin' noggin bed?
It's all gone for beer and tobacco
Well I lent it to a whore and now the sheets are all tore
And the springs are looking out for better whether.

Here's an alternative last verse (this is the one I'm used to hearing at the Irishman here in Stavanger):

4:
Well I'm sick in me head and I haven't been to bed
Since first I came ashore with all me plunder
I've seen centipedes and snakes, and me head is full of aches
And I think I'll pick a path to way up yonder

Finally there's also an alternative chorus (from a Irish pub in England):

Well it's all for me grog, me jolly jolly grog
It's all for me beer and tobacco
I spent all me loot in a house of ill repute
And I think I'll have to go back there tomorrow

This is what I've collected on the sailor version of the song. I don't know much more about it unfortunately, but I though you might like some more versions.

Vibeke :)

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From:
Date: 05 Apr 99 - 04:24 PM

At the Bay Area Renaissance Festival, our common line is "For I spent all me tin on the lassies, drink, and gin." But go to a festival just upstate, and it changes to "For I spent all me loot in a house of ill repute."

I would imagine that locale and festival tradition could also determine the lyrics. More than likely, there are as many versions of this song as there are Rennies.

Be afraid!

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 12:22 AM

Hi Sandy, didn't know of any versions from the U.S. but Helen Creighton does have a version from Nova Scotia which she titles "Western Ocean" in her 'Songs & Ballads from Novia Scotia'. See ya, Barry

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 12:54 AM

Yeah, Barry, we'll see you at NEFFA! Hope we can get some other 'Catters there, too. Meanwhile, I'll go look at the Creighton version and see how it compares with the one we've recorded. Thanks for the guidance.

Sandy

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From:
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 01:45 AM

This is truly amazing! I love this song, as I do many but unable to add anything to it since it is after all a seafaring riff. What I think is so cool is all the different versions you can get from everyone out there in cyberland! What a wonderful world! Ok, I can't help on this one but if any one needs help with an appalachian song give me a line. Maybe I can help with those. Best of luck to all, Tucker

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Reiver #2 (inactive)
Date: 20 Apr 99 - 07:10 PM

Great stuff on the various versions of All For Me Grog. As 1/2 of the Reivers (we sang in British Columbia in the 1970s and early '80s) we sang a version we got froma a recording called Irish Drinking Songs by the group The Jolly Beggarmen. We sang it "For I spent all my tin on the lassie's drinkin gin", but the words sung by the Jolly Beggarman may have been "... on the lassies, drink and gin".... I can't really tell.

They also sang "... me lovin', lovin' boots", (and shirt in the next verse), and "...jolly, jolly grog" in the chorus. The term "noggin", I think may have been the original, however. They also sang "Since first I came ashore with me slumber", but as The Reivers we always sang "plunder". In the live recording I have the Beggarmen go right from that song into "Dicey Riley" and we always sang the two in combination as a kind of medley.

The information in the thread re. the origin of the term grog is correct. Also, the fact that the tobacco would have been chewed, not smoked, on board ships is correct. Fire was feared more than anything else on the old wooden sailing ships. This bears on the line in Dicey Riley, "... the heart of the roll is Dicey Riley." The tobacco used was "packaged" by rolling up the tobacco leaves. The best were in the middle, or heart, of the roll, with the lower quality leaves on the outside. Hence, Dicey Riley, is regarded as a person of high quality in spite of having "... taken to the slop." If anyone has more information, or more verses (I have only one verse and the chorus), to Dicey Riley, I'd like to see it posted. Perhaps a new thread would be called for.

Reiver #2

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 20 Apr 99 - 08:07 PM

This probably should be a new thread, but just to reply to Reiver#2, the version of Dicey Riley I have has it as "rowl", which I believe has nothing to do with tobacco, then again I am sure I shall be corrected.
Cheers
Mick

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 20 Apr 99 - 08:12 PM

And having just checked up, it would appear that "rowl" is the same as roll and does refer to baccy... well you live and learn...
Mick

Subject: Lyr Add: CONCRETE AND GLASS parody-All for Me Grog
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 09:35 AM

In the interests of folk process, I'm adding this anti-urban renewal parody of this fine traditional song, which itself is a reworking of an earlier parody from the Sidney inner city neighborhood of Wooloomooloo, reworked to fit Portland, Maine's waterfront.

CONCRETE AND GLASS
(Charlie Ipcar - ©1985 Adapted from Denis Kevans' & Seamus Gill's Australian parody of "All for Me Grog" © 1973)

Oh, me name it is Fred,
In Portland born and bred,
And the Old Port used to be me home, boys
But 'tis caused me heart to grieve,
For I've had to take me leave,
Now across them western suburbs I must roam, boys!

Chorus:

In concrete and glass,
Portland's disappearing fast;
'Tis all gone for profit and for plunder;
Though we really want to stay,
They keep forcing us away,
Now across them western suburbs we must wander!

Now, where is me house,
Me old three-decker house?
'Tis all gone for profit and for plunder;
For the wreckers of the town Just come up and knocked it down;
Now across them western suburbs we must wander!

And where is me pub,
Me Irish Village Pub?
'Tis all gone for profit and for plunder;
Now when you walk in the door,
You'll find condo's on each floor,
And you'll have to fly to Dublin for your beer, boys!

And where is me port,
Me old working port?
'Tis all gone for profit and for plunder;
Now when you walk down the dock,
All ye'll hear is disco rock;
And ye'll have to dry yer nets in a laundromat, boys!

And where is me bank,
Me old Maine Savings Bank?
'Tis all gone for profit and for plunder;
Now who can ye trust
When all the banks go bust;
So across them western suburbs we must wander!

Now, before the city's wrecked
Them developers must be decked;
For 'tis plain to see they do not give a bugger,
And if them bandits have their way
We soon shall see the day
That we'll all be driving in from Madawaska!*

* A small town in northern Maine on the Canadian border about 6 hours from Portland.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: aussiebloke
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 11:49 AM

G'day...

From the Aussie version above: (thanks Alan)

So it's hang yer jolly grog, yer hocussed shanty grog
The beer that is loaded with tobacco
Graftin' humour I am in, and I'll stick the peg right in
And settle down once more to some hard yakka.

The reference to tobacco here is in relation to the grog-sellers practice of adding tobacco to alcohol (hocussed grog), which would apparently knock you out. When the shearer woke up in the morning, he was told he had shouted drinks all around, and had spent his whole seasons paycheck on drinks in one not so memorable night. The process was referred to as 'lambing down' and is a common theme in Aussie folk songs.

Mark Gregory's excellent Aussie song site provides the musical notation, and he lists the song title as 'Across the Western Plains', he provides these notes:
First printed in the Bulletin in May 1916.
Reworked from a sailor's song 'Noggin Boots' or 'Across the Western Ocean'
This version from the singing of A.L.Lloyd who writes "Sung straight the song never seemed to me wildly exiting, but once I heard a drunken shearer named White sing it on a station near Bethungra NSW, in a way that would make the hair stand on end."

Cheers

aussiebloke

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:31 PM

I have heard the chorus sung:
And it's all for me grog/ Me jolly, jolly grog/ All gone for beer and tobacco/ Well I spent all my tin/ down on south Street drinking gin. nor across the western ocean I must ramble!

I'm not terribly familiar with RN regs or customs back in the days of wooden ships and iron men but in the American navy which took it's cue from the British navy, smoking was not unheard of hence the term still in use "The smoking lamp is lit" (Or alternately, not lit)This of course may be scant evidence but there are pictures extant from the American Civil War showing sailors with pipes. Most of those pictures are not taken on monitors but on sailing vessels. (For what it's worth.:~) kindest regards, Neil

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:43 PM

Here's the entry from the traditional Ballad Index. I'm surprised the Index didn't come up with more versions.
-Joe Offer-

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Here's to the Grog (All Gone for Grog)

DESCRIPTION: The singer describes his "nobby, nobby" coat, breeches, etc. All are decrepit, but will not be replaced, for "It's all gone for grog, Jolly, jolly grog... I've spent all my tin with the lassies drinking gin, And across the western ocean I must wander."
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1904 (Sharp MS.)
KEYWORDS: clothes drink poverty hardtimes sailor
FOUND IN: Britain(England(Lond,North,South),Scotland(Aber)) Canada(Mar) Australia
REFERENCES (7 citations):
GreigDuncan3 580, "Ale and Tobacco" (1 fragment, 1 tune)
Williams-Thames, p. 296, "Good Brown Ale and Tobacco" (1 text fragment) (also Wiltshire-WSRO Wt 426)
Kennedy 274, "Here's to the Grog" (1 text, 1 tune)
Wiltshire-WSRO Ox 287, "All Through the Beer" (1 text)
Creighton-NovaScotia 64, "Western Ocean" (1 text, 1 tune)
Paterson/Fahey/Seal, pp. 238-240, "Across the Western Ocean I Must Wander" (1 text)
DT, HEREGROG*
Roud #475
RECORDINGS:
Liam Clancy, "All For Me Grog" (on IRLClancy01)
A. L. Lloyd, "All for Me Grog" (on Lloyd5, Lloyd12)
Tom Newman, "My Old Hat That I Got On" (on Voice13)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
The Nobby Hat
My Jolly, Jolly Tin
NOTES: Although some versions of this song make no reference at all to the sea, the singer's references to grog (which is technically rum mixed with water) label him as a sailor; only a seaman would speak of grog as opposed to some other sort of alcoholic beverage.
Creighton thinks the song might have originated as a music hall piece. - RBW
Last updated in version 2.6
File: K274

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Subject: ADD Version: All For Me Grog (Watersons)
From: radriano
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:33 PM

I must indulge in a pet peeve of mine.

There is no "X" in espresso.

Okay, I feel much better now.

---

The Watersons recorded another version of "All for me Grog":

All For Me Grog
The Watersons

1st verse & chorus:
All for me grog, me jolly, jolly grog
All for me grog and tobacco
For I spent all me store with the lassies on the shore
And it's all for me grog and tobacco

Chorus

When I come home then me sweetheart I shall see
All for me grog and tobacco
And me sweetheart shall sing when she sees the wedding ring
And it's all for me grog and tobacco

Chorus

When she's a son for to gangle on her dandle on her knee
All for me grog and tobacco
She will sing him to sleep while I sail the stormy seas
And it's all for me grog and tobacco

Chorus

When he's a man, then a sailor he shall be
All for me grog and tobacco
With his pipe and his can like a proper sailor man
And it's all for me grog and tobacco

Chorus

---

I listened to the recording on the Watersons Early Days album, and made the corrections shown in italics. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:38 PM

That rum that they cut with warter was, I believe, 151 overproof. When diluted 50% it is about the strenth of most commercial brands straight.
Most rum is distilled to this strenth and then cut with water before bottling.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:10 PM

Roud index no. 475.

Found most commonly in tradition in England, also occasionally in Canada and Australia. Roud lists one example found in Scotland, but none from Ireland; where its career as an "Irish Drinking Song" probably began with the record made by the Clancys. The set recorded by the Watersons quoted by Radriano (with the final words of several lines omitted) was learned from Frank Kidson's collection; probably the set referred to in Barbara's post earlier. Some versions list in order the various items of clothing that have been disposed of in the quest for more alcohol, and these would sometimes be accompanied by the singer's removing the item in question. "Noggin" may be a corruption of "nobby" (the song is sometimes found as The Nobby Hat), but no promises.

Subject: DTADD: Western Ocean^^
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 08:22 PM

Actually, Richard, the "X" in espresso is optional - but we Californians prefer not to use it. Do the Watersons leave out the last word of the first line of most stanzas, or is that a San Francisco omission, like the missing "X"? Hmmmm???

But back to the topic at hand - Helen Creighton has quite a different version of the song in Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia. Here 'tis:

WESTERN OCEAN

1. Oh, I only got one cap, and the crown of it's all gone
And the peak is all tore to a slunder,
And if I don't get no more, I'll put this cap in store
And across the western ocean I shall wander.

Chorus
Then hurrah for your grog,
Your jolly, jolly grog,
Hurrah for the rum and tobacco,
For I've spent all my tin
On a lassie drinking gin,
And across the western ocean I shall wander.

2. Oh, I only got one shirt, and the neck of it's all gone
And the back is all tore to a slunder,
And if I don't get no more, I'll put that shirt in store
And across the western ocean I shall wander. Cho.

3. Oh, I only got one coat and the back of it's all gone
And the sleeves is all tore to a slunder, etc. Cho.

4. Oh, I only got one pair of pants, and the buttons they are gone
And the legs is all tore to a slunder, etc. Cho.

5. Oh, I only got one pair of shoes, and the heels they are gone
And the toes is all tore to a slunder, etc. Cho.^^


Notes from Creighton:

It is quite possible that this song was composed for music-hall entertainment by one who had knowledge of the sea. The chorus has probably been borrowed from a genuine sea song. Both in words and music this is faintly suggestive of The Little Old Shanty, and is sung to the same air as the verse. Lomax (Cowboy Songs), pp. 187, 189, which in its turn is a parody of The Little old Log Cabin In the Lane.

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Click to play

^^

Subject: DTCorr: Here's to the Grog^^
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 09:00 PM

The version in the Digital Tradition has me puzzled. The initials "DC" mean it came from Dick Cook, probably in the batch of songs that started the Digital Tradition way back when. It says the lyrics are from Folksongs of Britain and Ireland, copyright 1984 by Oak Publications. Except for a couple of obvious mistakes in the DT, the lyrics are exactly the same as the following lyrics, which are from Peter Kennedy's Folksongs of Britain & Ireland (Schirmer Books, 1975). Did Oak do a reprint of the Kennedy book?
The tune from the DT doesn't match the lyrics, so I'll post the tune from the Kennedy book.
-Joe Offer-

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HERE'S TO THE GROG

I've got a coat and a nobby, nobby coat
I've got a coat a-seen a lot of rough weather
For the sides are near wore out and the back is flying about
And the lining's looking out for better weather

Here's to the grog, boys, the jolly, jolly grog
Here's to the rum and tobacco
I've a-spent all my tin with the lassies drinking gin
And to cross the briny ocean I must wander

I've got me breeches, me nobby, nobby breeches
I've got breeches a-seen a lot of rough weather
For the pouch is near wore out and the seat's all flying about
And me knees are looking out for better weather

CHORUS

I've got me shirt, me nobby, nobby shirt
I've got a shirt a-seen a lot of rough weather
For the collar's near wore out and the sleeves are flying about
And me tail's looking out for better weather

CHORUS

I've got me boots, me nobby, nobby boots
I've got boots a-seen a lot of rough weather
For the bottom's near wore out and the heels flying about
And me toes are looking out for better weather

CHORUS

I've got a tile, a nobby, nobby tile
I've got a tile a-seen a lot of rough weather
For the brim it is wore out and the crown is flying about
And the lining's looking out for better weather

CHORUS^^

---

A "tile" is a hat..

---

Click to play

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 11:57 PM

Yes; Oak issued the paperback edition in 1984.

Subject: ADD Version: All For Me Grog (A.L. Lloyd)^^
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 03:26 AM

Several versions in the Digital Tradition claim to be from the singing of A.L. Lloyd, but this one I'm sure of. It's from the A.L. Lloyd CD, English Drinking Songs. I hear "noggy-noggin'" - but I'm not completely sure of that.

ALL FOR ME GROG

Chorus:
All for me grog, me jolly jolly grog
All for me beer and tobacco
For we spent all our tin with the lassies drinking gin
And across the western ocean we must wander


Oh, where are me boots, me noggy, noggin' boots?
All gone for beer and tobacco
And the heels they are wore out and the soles are knocked about
And me toes are looking out for better weather
(Chorus)

I'm sick in the head for I haven't been to bed
Since first I come ashore with me plunder
I see centipedes and snakes and I'm full of pains and aches
So I'd better make a push out over yonder.
(Chorus)

Where is me shirt, my noggy, noggin' shirt?
All gone for beer and tobacco
And the collar is wore out, and the front is knocked about
And the tail is looking out for better weather
(chorus)

source: transcribed from the A.L. Lloyd CD, English Drinking Songs^^

---

The tune sounds like HEREGROG (click) in the Digital Tradition. It seems to be the tune most commonly associated with this song.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: ooh-aah
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 06:47 PM

I also learned this song from that CD by dear old A.L. Lloyd. What I want to know is - what does 'noggin' mean?

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jun 03 - 12:46 AM

Hi, ooh - the Oxford English Dictionary defines "noggin" as "a small quantity of liquor, usually a quarter of a pint." I got a new CD today called Song Links: A Celebration of English Traditional Songs and Their Australian Variants. It has recordings of the song by Lou Killen (UK) and Dave de Hugard (Oz) - and it has the OED definition.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Snuffy
Date: 29 Jun 03 - 08:08 AM

Noggin' here could be either:

a polite synonym for bloody, pissing, shitting, fucking, etc,

or as noted above a corruption of 'nobby', meaning like the nobs (nobles), i.e very smart and expensive.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Jun 03 - 03:36 AM

Smoking on RN ships during the early 1800's.

There was a report from either the Captain or First Lieutenant of HMS Eurylas where in detailing the readiness of his ship for sea, he mentions, "Of the 250 men on board 120 use tobacco, of which 18 of that number are smokers, the remainder chew their quids like christians".

Smoking was permitted but only in the galley area of the ship which was built of brick and screened. As they had a fire in the galley range for cooking, it was considered to be no greater risk for the smokers to indulge in that area. Officers were free to smoke their pipes in their wardroom.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: radriano
Date: 30 Jun 03 - 06:30 PM

Nah, Joe. Just had too much espresso to drink that day. One of the verses is complete though. The omissions were my fault - a result of trying to do things too fast. You do know they call me "Rapid Richard", don't you? Of course, sometimes that reputation doesn't work in my favor.

Those missing words are:

"When she's a son for to gangle on her KNEE"

and

"When he's a man then a sailor he shall BE"

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 03:18 AM

"gangle" ??? I think the word is "dandle" which is to bounce a baby on your knee.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 08:54 AM

...only a seaman would speak of grog as opposed to some other sort of alcoholic beverage...

I'd question that. I've often enough heard it used to refer to any kind of spirits. It probably has a naval origin back in the 18th century, but it's extended its range since then.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: radriano
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 10:46 AM

Right, Teribus! Dandle is the correct word.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 11:03 AM

So was this song just used in the taverns or was it also used as a shanty/chantey/chantie/tchantie?

My best guess is that it was more used for entertainment than as a work song.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 11:05 AM

Chris Roche could tell you.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: mikesamwild
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 01:56 PM

Thanks for all this I couldn't persuade a chap last week in a session that it wasn't an Irish song originally. Like so many it was popularised by the Clanceys.
I challeneged him to find the original Gaelic version so he may be on Mudcat!

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Artful Codger
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 02:21 PM

It was originally a harp piece "Plantxy Anacreon" by Carolan, to which the famous Irish poet Ruarigh O'Prutcoimh set these words:

ALL FOR ME POITIN

Where is me shilelagh,
Me naoichian*, naoichian shilelagh...

* meaning roughly "misplaced during a brawl"

And I can give you a good price on a fragment of the Blarney Stone.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 02:54 PM

"The word grog refers to a variety of alcoholic beverages. The word originally referred to a drink made with water or "small beer" (a weak beer) and rum, which was introduced into the Royal Navy by British Vice Admiral Edward Vernon (nicknamed "Old Grog" by the sailors) on 21 August 1740. Modern versions of the drink are often made with hot or boiling water, and sometimes include lemon juice, lime juice, cinnamon or sugar to improve the taste. Rum with water, sugar and nutmeg was known as bumboo and was more popular with pirates and merchantmen.

By contrast, in Australia and New Zealand, the word has come to mean any alcoholic drink."

The name "grog" probably came from the nickname of Admiral Vernon, who was known as "Old Grog" because he wore a grogram cloak.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Young Buchan
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:00 AM

I don't know if the instigator of the thread will wish to incorporate this into his/her recording of the song in the interests of verisimilitude, but I am told that during the war it was the practice for the singer to remove the articles of clothing mentioned in each verse, dip them in a glass of beer, wring them out again, and at the end of the final verse drink the residue.

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: stallion
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:32 AM

more about grog in the RN than the song, an old navy salt long since departed, once told me of "sippers" and "gulpers", if someone was celebrating a birthday or such they would either get a sip of everyone else's grog or a gulp, he also talked of a "canvas turn out" where a collection was made by stretching a canvas and people throwing money into it, i was 19 when I heard this and the guy must have been in his seventies both of us may be suffering memory loss! I think the "canvas turnout" was used when he was going ashore on his 21st birthday. anyway I thought this was interesting unrecorded customs, can anyone here expand on the snippets......thread creep I know....but...

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 06:05 AM

Interesting history, including definitions of sippers and gulpers here

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:03 PM

I've always been curious how the term "grog" surfaced in the old canal boat song "Shove Around the Grog" as collected by Frank Warner, and there are references to "old Ireland" in that song as well.

But so far no one has come up with a specific reference to "All for Me grog/Across the Western Ocean" being used as a capstan shanty or a forebitter. I don't find it collected in Hugill, Doerflingler, Colcord, C. Fox Smith, Huntington, Bullen, Whall, Pease, or even Shay.

We are left with Helen Creighton and A. L. Lloyd, as recorded on English Drinking Songs, as the earliest collectors.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Artful Codger
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:08 PM

According to a Google Books search, "All for My Grog and Tobacco" turns up in English peasant songs with their traditional airs (1929), where it is either labelled a "sea chantey" or comprises the chapter heading for such. That would be earlier than either Lloyd or Creighton.

It was also published in English dance and song, Volumes 28-29‎ (1966; EFDSS), p. 135 where there may be more historical information.

Roy Palmer's A checklist of manuscript songs and tunes collected from oral tradition... has a citation to a version collected from T.C. Smith "as sung in Scar-" (remainder of citation not viewable).

It may also occur in collections under the title "Across the Western Ocean" (not to be confused with the chantey more widely known by this title, containing the repeating line "Amelia, where are you bound?" or similar).

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:43 PM

Artful Codger-

Thanks for the additional references.

"Across the Western Ocean" (not to be confused with the chantey more widely known by this title, containing the repeating line "Amelia, where are you bound?"

The confusion of titles certainly does make searches more frustrating.

I've always assumed that the sea version predated the Australian land version "Across the Western Plains" but maybe not.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: All for me grog
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:54 PM

Evidently the earlier collection date for the sailor version of the song is by Cecil Sharp in in MS dated 1904.

Charley Noble