BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST,ET
Date: 17 May 03 - 11:28 PM

Best definition I've heard - when you no longer have anything at your parents house! Elaine

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Nancy King
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:31 PM

For me it's been a gradual process, and I'm not altogether sure I'm 100% "adult" yet, but feeling closer lately.

Maybe the first big step was getting my own apartment paid for with the money I earned on my first real job. Getting married, having kids, yeah yeah. Now my sons are grown up, and if they're grownups I've GOTTA be one, right? Somebody above marked as a milestone the time he first realized he was having a pleasant, intelligent conversation with his parents. Likely the parents felt it as a milestone too!

I think the last big push in that direction for me was taking care of my invalid and somewhat demented mother -- and her property in a distant city -- for the last two years of her life. Then settling the estate, of course (not that there was much left of it...) Only grownups can do that.

So now can I regress a bit?

Cheers,
Nancy

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 03 - 10:53 AM

In my experience, single adults have a higher proclivity for neurotic impulses. Not that such a generalization is really meaningful -- but it seems to me that the moral support of a constant, well-known intimate friend in your life, one with whom you've walked the miles and been through challenges, is a treasure of great strength and can make for more rational-seeming decisions.

Seems to me there is a spectrum of greater and less responsibility and where you are on that spectrum varies wildly with the area (some folks handle machinery well and collapse dealing with people -- others have blind spots when it comes to animals and plants, and some people have a lot more work to do on the subject of friendships or romance than others) and with the chronic baseline level of responsibility which varies so widely from person to person. Then there's the acute factors of the moment.


A

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: *daylia*
Date: 17 May 03 - 10:31 AM

" Oh yes. Paying the mortgage and the taxes by yourself without even the possibility of a 2nd income if you lose your job takes all those financial pressures right off! ;) Nor does it mean you aren't a "family type", because you may still have aging parents and grandparents to take care of."

I've heard this line of thought quite a few times from some of the "perpetual singles" I've known. One woman used it a lot when, as a member of a volunteer community group, she was trying to sluff off more of her own responsibilities onto the shoulders of some already overburdened single parent. That really used to bug me. AARRRGGHHH!

What I've noticed among my own family and friends is that it's most often the siblings who are parents themsleves who volunteer for/are entrusted with the daily responsibililty of caring for aging parents. The others contribute money - which they do seem to have a lot more of! - but time? Hmmmmmmmm

As far as second incomes go, as long as a couple remains childless they can be ahead of the game (except maybe at tax time!), but put a baby or two into the equation and it changes entirely. Daycare expenses alone can eat up half of that second income, and feeding/clothing/educating/paying for the dental and medical needs of another human being, or two or three? So much for making a dent in the taxes or mortgage!

Single people also have more freedom to move, change jobs, go back to school if they're unsatisfied in their work. At least the possibility of a temporary reduction of income affects no one but oneself.

Of course these situations are not "universal" - every family is different. There's probably lots of financially strained singles out there who are "burdened" (?) with the care of aging parents and other family responsibilities. But honestly, I've never known any, and I've found the opposite scenario to be quite common.

What all this has to do with being a "grown-up" does seem a bit tenuous, though!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: NicoleC
Date: 16 May 03 - 01:01 PM

Always thought it had to be due to more than just the fact that perpetual singles are more likely to get enough sleep, don't have as many financial pressures etc. Hmmmmmmm

Bwwahahaha!

Oh yes. Paying the mortgage and the taxes by yourself without even the possibility of a 2nd income if you lose your job takes all those financial pressures right off! ;) Nor does it mean you aren't a "family type", because you may still have aging parents and grandparents to take care of.

If there's a difference in attitude, it's not less pressure or concerns, it's just different concerns. Married folks may have more issues getting along with a spouse, but they also have a built-in safety mechanism when things go wrong. If you're single, you survive and succeed on your own, or not at all, and "not at all" can be pretty harsh.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 May 03 - 09:21 AM

From the study being discussed:

"Interesting tidbit
While those who are younger than 30 are the least likely to rank being married or having children as important criteria for being an adult, those who are older and married rate these as more important. "This probably reflects in large part a shift in values across generations away from traditional family values," Smith told Reuters."

Now I'm wondering if the said difference in attitudes toward maturity and marriage/parenthood really reflects a "shift in values across the generations"? Or are there certain "grown-up" qualities -- like delayed gratification, patience, selflessness, fidelity -- that are more likely to be "called to action" and developed more fully within people who choose marriage and parenthood?

It's just that I've often noticed subtle personality differences between the "family types" and the "perpetual singles" among my friends and acquaintances, though I've never quite been able to put my finger on exactly what it is that's different. Always thought it had to be due to more than just the fact that perpetual singles are more likely to get enough sleep, don't have as many financial pressures etc. Hmmmmmmm

daylia

PS -- Amos, of course I didn't mean that anyone should "go about becoming destitute or broken, in order to provide others an opportunity for generosity. "

I was trying to point out that the less fortunate do provide the rest of us with very valuable opportunities to exercise the finer qualities of human nature. And they are also living examples/proof of the economic/social conditions which sorely need "fixing" within the culture at large -- like poverty and unemployment, alcoholism/drug addiction, ethnic/class discrimination, family breakdown etc.

If recognized as the social "barometers" that they really are, the destitute can be seen as providing an important -- if unpleasant -- "service" indeed. But please understand - I'm certainly not calling for more homelessness and poverty by saying that!

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Cluin
Date: 16 May 03 - 01:07 AM

When you stop growing vertically and start growing horizontally. I am a grownup and on my way to becoming a grownwide.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: leprechaun
Date: 15 May 03 - 10:57 PM

It's when you realize how stupid those sideburns look and you finally shave them off.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: MMario
Date: 15 May 03 - 10:21 AM

y'know - it's funny; my grandmother married late - according to her peers and family and socially. Yet she was barely 21. But *NOW* - less then a century later - 25 is considered to be the age to marry. By that age my grandmother had finished having her family -and had moved and re-established her household in 2 different countries.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: stevetheORC
Date: 15 May 03 - 10:12 AM

What NO SANTA!!!!!!!!!!!! SOB SOB SOB

De Orc

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 15 May 03 - 10:04 AM

"First you find out that there's no Santa Claus.
Then you find out that there's no God.
Then you find out that there are no adults."

- from a recent Irish Times series about parenthood which also cited a woman in her eighties worrying about what would happen to her sixty-year-old bachelor son when she dies.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 15 May 03 - 09:50 AM

Seriously:
I think becoming a grownup is when you change from self-centeredness to thinking of another(s). I've noticed it in my family when someone becomes a parent. Suddenly, all perspective changes. I love it when my kids have a revelation, "Mom (the three syllable word), how did you do it?" (referring to hardships in my life that they were totally unaware of until they experienced the same thing)

Not seriously:

"I used to be cool."
"What happended?"
"I grew up."

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 03 - 08:31 AM

According to The Boss, it's when you get your union card and your wedding coat.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 15 May 03 - 08:15 AM

Reading this thread, I now realise that all those grown-ups when I was a kid were really just kids like me, just bigger.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Merritt
Date: 14 May 03 - 11:56 AM

A few random observations.

When I was 14 I wanted to play guitar and change the world. Over the years I grew away from these childish aspirations.

I started feeling "grown up" in my mid-30s when I stopped blaming my parents for who I was, when being me became just my responsibility.

Now, at the age of 49, my priorities are to play guitar and to work for change in the world. It took me a while to become so mature.

A lot of adults IMO are in touch with their inner consumers, or maybe their inner accountants.

- Merritt

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Bagpuss
Date: 14 May 03 - 07:30 AM

"It's funny...when I was a kid, I thought grown ups never worried about anything. I trusted my parents to take care of everything and it never occurred to me that they might not know how. I figured that once you grew up, you automatically knew what to do in any given scenario. I don't think I would have been in such a hurry to reach adulthood if I'd known the whole thing was going to be adlibbed." -Calvin's dad in Calvin and Hobbes by Bill Watterson

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: smallpiper
Date: 14 May 03 - 04:59 AM

From most of the answers in this thread (including my own) the only logical conclusion is that you become grown up when you stop. Ah what fine grown up corpses' we will all make!

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: s&r
Date: 14 May 03 - 02:57 AM

When do you become a grownup? (Study)

Tomorrow

Maybe...

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Doug_Remley
Date: 14 May 03 - 12:09 AM

I used to think I wasn't "grown up" and still do in many ways. I finally recognized last year that it mostly was because I was usually given responsibilies for which I had no training and was always "new boy on the block." Doing well only meant more of the same. My nineteen year old daughter asks for my guidance in some things, but either doesn't think I am grown-up either or is comfortable with zany behavior. I think maybe one is grown up only when one stops growing.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 13 May 03 - 11:45 AM

you stop posting on mudcat

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 May 03 - 08:59 AM

My father died when I was 5. I wasn't grown up.

I wasn't grown up when I got a driver's license, started to smoke tobacco, got my first kiss, graduated from high school, had lessons for trumpet and piano, went to basic training, went to college, was called up with my reserve unit for the Vietnam War, served in Korea, came home, went back to college, graduated college, went to graduate school, quit grad school and took a job. I wasn't grown up when I got married, even though I was 28. Finally getting a Master's degree didn't do it, either.

My mother died when I was 36. I still wasn't grown up.

Since I've been married I've visited every State in the US except Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Hawaii; quite a few of the Canadian Provinces; several countries; been an invited speaker at a meeting at Cambridge University; headed a national organization; owned several cars and purchased three washers and two dryers, and done a lot of other stuff.

I'm still not grown up.

I learned to handle firearms safely at 12 and I've fired more bullets than I care to remember without any untoward incidents. I can drive a car at ridiculous speeds without crashing. I can operate computers, including great big servers, and use Windows, Unix, and Linus operating systems. I've installed at least one entire computer network from beginning to end.

I'm still not a grown up.

I can cook and I can sew, I can keep the house right tity, and wake up in the morning to get the breakfast ready. Nope, not grown up.

Maybe being grown up is not growning up?????? Never-Never Land, here I come!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 03 - 06:52 AM

Interesting answers...........My Mom died when I etered college and my Dad died just after I finished. Both of these things had a major impact on my outlook. A few years later, I sold the house I'd grown up in and bought another in a different state...a major change. It may be that it was there that I felt the most "adult" before or since. From there on I was working in pretty well paying jobs and spending every cent. sometimes more.

When I met and married Karen I was 36 and it was like being a kid again. I was 42 when we adopted out first son Tristan, and 43 when we got Michael. Although we have been pretty responsible parents, the kids (including our 25 foster kids) have made us both feel quite old and quite young, but not necessarily grown up. As Mike and Tris grow, I feel less like an adult all the time except in those moments when I have to "The Parent" and not just "Dad."

I dunno' PT.......Interesting question really........

I would submit that if you are actively posting on the "Spaw's Birthday" or "Mother of All" threads, you ain't made it to adulthood yet.....Or you have zoomed past it into early senility with more than a soupcon of imbecility in your veins.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST,mink
Date: 13 May 03 - 05:41 AM

I grew up, and now I'm growing down again.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Burke
Date: 12 May 03 - 07:09 PM

And people who don't have children don't ever grow-up?

This thread needs some musical content. Here's a song I'm thinking of: "It's better than that".

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: annamill
Date: 12 May 03 - 09:21 AM

Stephen King, in his book "Christine"(sp?), wrote (this might be a slight misquote, but gets the jist) "You don't grow into adulthood. You are dragged into it by your children, kicking and screaming all the way".

This sounds right to me.

Of course the kids are gone now (too adult for me) and Honey and I can be kids again. Cool!

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Amos
Date: 11 May 03 - 09:01 PM

I think it began the first time I had to pay for my own clothes, decide what they would be and decide for myself when to get them. Socially it really started the first time I was in charge of other people -- a terrifying thought, at first, having to make public decisions of rightness and wrongness and stand by them. I guess I've gotten used to it now, more than thirty years later. I mean, how do you KNOW?

But like the thermos bottle, eventually it comes naturally. Just remember to keep the hot things hot and the cold things cold and all will be well.

A

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 03 - 07:41 PM

there are legal, social and personal reason to call one's self 'adult', but for me it was when my auto insurance finally lost it's 'young person's' surcharge at age 25.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 May 03 - 05:16 PM

For me it was when I bought my second ladder. I mean, any punk kid can have a ladder, but when you have two ladders, you've arrived at adultness. For sure, man.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: wilco
Date: 11 May 03 - 04:07 PM

Since I was a teenager, forty years ago, I've thought that we have artificially extended adolescence. The teenager become the "twenty somethings," and later the "thirty somethings," etc. In previous generations, "grown-up" probably came ten years earlier. My only concern is that this breeds long-term dependency.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Bobert
Date: 10 May 03 - 09:54 PM

Yeah, Happy B-Day, Mariner!!! This is my son's (18 today...) birhtday.

Ahhhhh, as fir this ragin' "grown up" question, it all comes down to beer. Yeah, really. Bare with me. I went to one of those dreaded parties tonight becuase I had too. They *served* wine and mixed drinks and everyone seemed to be having a good time. I asked for a beer and the place went silent and everyone looked at me... Hmmmmm, now Iz here to say that there are at least 20 grown ups in this world and they all seemed to be attending the same party. Hmmmmm? I sniffin' a grown up conspiracy here...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 10 May 03 - 08:06 PM

Happy Birthday Mariner!!

LL

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Joe_F
Date: 10 May 03 - 08:05 PM

There are amphibians in Mexico called axolotls that can reproduce without metamorphosing. They are giant tadpoles. But if the pond they are in starts to dry up, they grow legs & walk to another pond.

From the literature, I judge that human beings are something like that. A grownup is someone who has made a desperate adaptation & will never be the same again.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: MARINER
Date: 10 May 03 - 05:49 PM

I'm a grandfather who is 59 today and I'm still waiting to become a "grownup"!

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Sam L
Date: 10 May 03 - 05:41 PM

For me it was having a washer and dryer in my house. It was the end of innocence.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 03 - 04:12 PM

The study confirms our American society's definition of reaching adulthood, ie that it is a milestone defined by one's relationship to one's parents, by getting married, and/or by entering into full time employment.

Many people do still define themselves as adults by using measures like economic independence from their parents, marital status, or any number of economic standards (full time work, home ownership, etc). But those definitions are mainstream definitions.

IMO, when the threshold to adulthood is crossed is contingent upon how fast one's life's circumstances forces one to grow up. It has nothing to do with age, marital status, employment or education status, IMO. Rather, it has to do when the first major crisis of one's life hits head on, and the person is forced to deal with circumstances on an adult level, rather than a child's. For some, that could come in the early teens. For others, much later, even as late as in their 30s or 40s.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Rara Avis
Date: 10 May 03 - 04:03 PM

I remeber reading an article, about a year ago, regarding the extended adolescence referred to in the clicky. The sociologists in that article felt that "adulthood" was generally reached at about age 36. They believed the reason it took so long to achieve adulthood - being fully responsible for one's actions and taking one's place in society - was because so many twenty-somethings had for so long lived a life of ease made possible by overly indulgent parents that they were loathe to move on. The article referred to middle- and upper-middle class US families. I won't argue whether the sociologists are right or wrong. I do know (and am amazed by) people who put themselves deep in debt to support well-educated, able-bodied children who are within hailing distance of 30, e.g., grown-up children playing while their parents slave away. That said, it's as important to maintain a sense of fun and delight as it is to shoulder responsibility. Balance is everything.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 10 May 03 - 03:25 PM

Im never going to grow up.....Im having far too much fun at the moment!!!

Liz...I would scoot the trolly round the supermarket but I can never get Micca off the trolly!!....He refuses to grow up too so we have alot of fun!!!

Cat....going to the grown up cooking dinner thing!!!

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: open mike
Date: 10 May 03 - 03:13 PM

I have heard it referred to as being a "Blown Up".
And i think since my parents both died last year
it is a shocker knowing that I now am (supposed)
to be the adult in the family!!

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 03 - 10:55 AM

So, is Walter Cronkite grown up? The most trusted man in America? He's now hawking lobotomizing drugs on television, isn't he? Is he a grown up?

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Firecat
Date: 10 May 03 - 10:39 AM

I'm 19 and i'm a growed up!! :-))) I've been growed up for a year!!! Yay! :-)))))))

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 May 03 - 01:02 PM

The maturing process is an ongoing one (hopefully), which a person engages in, if they are wise, for their entire life...and on into the next life...and so on.

Society's view of what is an adult is just part of the picture. It's a spiritual matter too.

Although the adult may emerge over time, the child inside should still remain alive and present. A working combination of the two is far more powerful than having one at the expense of the other.

It's sometimes hard to "feel" like an adult when in the presence of one's parents, because they tend to go on treating you like you're still a child...I guess that's why people might say that you attain full adulthood when your parents die. Also, you don't have them to fall back on anymore.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Hayduke
Date: 09 May 03 - 12:51 PM

In my 20s (many moons ago) I had already -- in roughly this order -- been married and divorced, put myself through school, and made serious inroads in my career. All of this -- positives and negatives -- were done on my own. No help. But, what did it for me -- at 29 -- was visiting my parents over dinner. Good meal, great conversation. Intelligent topics. Then it hit me:

"We're talking with each other like we're peers."

That's when I realized I was an adult.

Of course, at 45 I still have my inner child and nurture it regularly (which is why playing music is so important to me), but I knew there was no turning back.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Schantieman
Date: 09 May 03 - 12:30 PM

No, not having a child.   Parents dying is nearer the mark.   Mine haven't yet, but my dad won't be around too much longer and my father-in-law died last October. I thought then, "This is what being a grown up is all about"!

But of course, some lose their parents early on - every so often we have a kid at school in that situation.   Some cope better than others.

S

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 03 - 12:26 PM

tomorrow

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: NicoleC
Date: 09 May 03 - 12:01 PM

Well I thought the "study" (which was more of an opinion poll) was hardly a revelation. Sorry, but getting married and/or having kids doesn't make you an adult, it simply means you got married and/or had kids. I know some great parents; but I also know wothers who can't take responsibility for their own emotional and mental well-being, let alone others. And plenty of people get married looking for someone to take care of them -- which is an abdication of responsibility, not a sign of it.

Many folks are grown up by the time they get married, etc. But many more aren't! Being an adult is as much about your mental and emotional state as it is a social contract, and no social event is going to be able to judge that.

I thought some of the other items -- like moving out of your parent's house and being financially self-supporting were more appropriate gauges of one's ability to grow up and cut the cord from the parents and living a life as an individual. When your parents don't have to take care of you any more, isn't that the best sign that childhood is over?

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: maire-aine
Date: 09 May 03 - 11:50 AM

I may be getting older, but I refuse to grow up.

But in answer to the question, I kind of think it's when you have a child. (I haven't, and I won't; that ship has sailed already.) Some of my friends who've become parents at a young age, seem to start thinking and acting old way too soon.

Maryanne

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: stevetheORC
Date: 09 May 03 - 11:43 AM

As long as one can remain a kid at heart, then that's the best of both worlds :-)
you can buy yourself all the toys that you never had as a kid, eat as much trifle as you like and watch the horror movies without been told to go to bed LoL

De (very not grown up:-) Orc

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 May 03 - 11:37 AM

When I was a kid, I dreamed of being grown up. I was sure that when I grew up, I would be totally free and totally cool, doing extraordinary things at every moment.
Well, I haven't reached that stage yet. Most of life is full of stuff I have to do, just like it was when I was a kid. Now and then, however, I have an "adult moment," and do something I dreamed of doing as a kid. I had one just last week, driving down into the American River Canyon and hiking to a waterfall with my lovely wife, admiring all the wildflowers as we walked.
At the end of the trail, we sat by a roaring waterfall, and I ate a hot dog and drank a beer.
Two years ago, I pledged my eternal love to that same woman at that same waterfall.

No, I don't want to be a kid again.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: smallpiper
Date: 09 May 03 - 11:25 AM

I once heard it said that a man is grown up when his mother dies. (sorry)

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Alba
Date: 09 May 03 - 11:24 AM

Here's a link to an article about the study itself!
I personally like my hidden child, gives me the excuse to behave the way I do at times :>)click here

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 09 May 03 - 11:11 AM

Peter T.,

How was "grownup" defined by those who did the study? Just curious.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 May 03 - 10:16 AM

I got told off for scooting the trolleys around the supermarket a couple of weeks ago.... guess I'm in the 'still waiting' category!

I think as long as you continue to take a child-like (not childish) attitude and view of life, then growing up is optional. Sometimes it's pleasant to be innocent and expectant, rather than the battered and cynical humans we usually are.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 03 - 10:15 AM

I have always had a childish streak as well, but these days it seems to disappoint people! :>)

Another way of describing it is that you begin to see yourself as parent to the world rather than merely an effect of it, as a child is.

A

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Burke
Date: 09 May 03 - 10:07 AM

I like Amos' remark: "Obviously the term "grown-up" is a child's term, reflecting the way children look at the world. It defines those who are responsible for the events in the world, the people running the show."

I remember being eager to grow-up. I often hear children described by their parents as "13 going on 18" or the like.

What I also recall is not really feeling like I was a grown-up well beyond my college graduation & being self supporting. I think I probably hit a sense of it in my mid 20's, about the time I bought a set of dishes for myself instead of using my parents' incomplete old ones. But I'll admit to currently reading a book with the title "How to be an Adult" and getting some very good insight in the very first chapter. Obviously I would not have bought it if I didn't have a sense of not quite being there.

So to change the question a little. When did you become a grownup? Or are you still waiting?

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Tig
Date: 09 May 03 - 10:06 AM

Remember - Growing old is inevitable
          Growing UP is optional

Personally I think everyone classes in BOTH groups sometimes. I've known 5 year olds who are more grown up than some adults at times!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 03 - 09:58 AM

A child is by nature a liability in day to day operations, meaning that they require support. They make up for it and are actually treasures and joys. But it is the nature of things that they take more than they contribute, generally.

Sure, some people relish having victims in order to show how generous and strong they are. I wasn't addressing the question of charity cases or disabled people. The disabled people I have known who were true adults managed to make themselves productive and contributing anyway. They cared to add value to the business of llife.

There are plenty of opportunities in the world to demonstrate compassion and the other virtues you mention without adding to the list, I would suggest. It is not "adult" in my view to go about becoming destitute or broken, in order to provide others an opportunity for generosity.

A.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 May 03 - 09:49 AM

Amos, while I agree with most of what you said, I wonder about this --

" The minimum degree, probably, is not being a liability to the community you participate in."

Are children or disabled-but-fully-grown people really 'liabilities' to the community? That depends on the attitude of the one making the judgement, I suppose.

People who are not physically/financially self-supporting could be seen as liabilities, or as vital living opportunities through which the rest of the community can express and develop such qualities as compassion, love, responsibility, generosity and service. I don't think this is a really a liability, but an asset to any community!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 May 03 - 09:48 AM

61 1/2 and still waiting to find out.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 03 - 09:22 AM

Obviously the term "grown-up" is a child's term, reflecting the way children look at the world. It defines those who are responsible for the events in the world, the people running the show.

Adulthood legally is defined by physical age. But functionally, it begins when you genuinely become responsible for your own condition -- physically and socially. That means you are acting as a conscious and responsible member of a community in some degree. The minimum degree, probably, is not being a liability to the community you participate in. Like all such values, it is a continuum, not a black and white division -- some people are more responsible in some areas than others, and most grow in responsibility throughout their lives. But the critical change point is the assumption of responsibility -- meaning owning the decisions, predicting the consequences, and stepping up to the situations of your own life.



A

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: MMario
Date: 09 May 03 - 09:02 AM

objection withdrawn.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:58 AM

I would agree with Art, understanding that self-supporting means the ability and willingness, not necessarily the act, to satisfy MMario's point.

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: MMario
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:50 AM

Art -

you're saying that a spouse who (hopefully with the consent and support of their partner) stays at home to raise a family is automatically not an adult?

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:47 AM

Here's a start:

1. self-supporting
2. able to think for themselves (whether you agree with their opinions or not)
3. able to make decisions and follow through on them
4. understand and observe the rights of others

Subject: RE: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: MMario
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:44 AM

I'm not sure; most people I know are just children in full sized bodies.

Subject: BS: When do you become a grownup? (Study)
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:42 AM

I see a new study says that most Americans think someone is grownup when they reach 26. Personally, I think people are grownup when they stop growing up vertically, which is about 18. The real question is: when does someone become an adult? The sad truth is that, in my life, I have met only one or two people who qualify as adults. All the rest are children in grownup bodies. What would your criteria be?
yours, Peter T.