BS: Understanding the Midwest and West

Subject: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 06:16 PM

This came to me via email some time ago. Thought I'd share it so that there are no unfortunate incidents involving you city folks.



1. That farm boy standing next to the feed bin did more work before
breakfast than you do all week at the gym.

2. It's called a 'gravel road.' No matter how slow you drive, you're going to get dust on your Navigator. I have a four wheel drive because I need it...not just to keep up with the neighbors.

3. We all started hunting and fishing when we were seven years old. Yeah, we saw Bambi. We got over it.

4. Any references to "corn fed" when talking about our women will get you whipped... by our women.

5. Go ahead and bring your $600 Orvis Fly Rod. Don't cry to us if a flathead catfish breaks it off at the handle. We have a name for those little trout you fish for... bait.

6. Pull your pants up. You look like an idiot.

7. If that cell phone rings while a bunch of mallards are making their final approach, we will shoot it. You might hope you don't have it up to your ear at the time.

8. That's right. Whiskey is only two bucks. We can buy a fifth for what you pay for one drink at the airport.

9. No, there's no "Vegetarian Special" on the menu. Order steak. Order it rare. Or, you can order the Chef' Salad and pick off the two pounds of ham and turkey.

10. You bring Coke into my house, it better be brown, wet, and served over ice.

11. So you have a sixty-thousand dollar car you drive on weekends. We're real impressed. We have quarter of a million dollar combines that we use two weeks a year.

12. Let's get this straight. We have one stoplight in town. We stop when it's red. We may even stop when it's yellow.

13. Our women hunt, fish, and drive pickups, trucks and tractors because they want to. So, you're a feminist. Isn't that cute.

14. Yeah, we eat catfish. Carp, too -- and turtle. You really want sushi and caviar? It's available at the bait shop.

15. They are pigs. That's what they smell like. Get over it.

16. The "Opener" refers to the first day of deer season. It's a religious holiday. You can get breakfast at the church.

17. So every person in every pickup waves. It's called being friendly.
Understand the concept?

18. Yeah, we have golf courses. Don't hit in the water hazard. It spooks the fish.

19. That Highway Patrol Officer who just pulled you over for driving like an idiot... his name is "Sir"...no matter how old he is.

Now please, enjoy your visit. Just don't overdo your stay, we have corn to plant.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 06:26 PM

Hmmm,

I assume the above is meant to 'amuse'?

It's rather poor and doesn't. C minus.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 06:40 PM

But what about those deserts and canyons?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:41 PM

deserted

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:56 PM

Well, with minor alterations, most of those would apply to the Southeast as well, particularly the one about waving. But, down here in Bubbaland, it's not really a "wave". It's more a matter of lifting the index finger of the hand that's on the steering wheel and nodding your head just a little. And it's strictly a country thing. People in towns don't do it. Hell, I'd never seen it done until I moved to the country and it did take a little gettin' used to. Now, it's second nature and if someone doesn't do it I think they're bein' rude.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: GUEST,c.sparra
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:08 PM

In this South East if you take your hand off the steering wheel your car gets nicked.
They have their own wave too, well I think it's a wave.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:30 PM

Sounds just about right to me,Rapaire. I'd add one more cuation. NEVER mess with farm boys.

Back when I was in High School in southern Wisconsin, we had a real blackboard jungle punk in my grade. He got his kicks by beating the crap out of unsuspecting kids, after school or during lunch hour. Or in the hallway, if he felt like it. One day, he spotted this kid I knew who was very quiet... and short and skinny.. about half the size of our own Marlon Brando, so he went over and started shoving him around.

Mistake.

He never knew what hit him. I don't care how short and skinny and quiet a kid is. If he lives on a farm, call him Mister.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:38 PM

Thanks, Rap. Maybe not funny, Guest, but true. Add:
Don't mess with his hat and leave his woman be.
If there is a dog in the back of the Pickup, don't try to pet it.You WILL be sorry.
If the dog is on the sidewalk, STILL don't try to pet it and whatever you do, don't run from it.
I don't care what kind of dog it is.
Learn to dip Copenhagen or Skoal...you'll fit in better.
Wear the shit on the outside, not on the inside.
Have a few dog hairs on the inside of your fancy SUV. Trust me, it will help.
Bob ware in the bed will help too. So will a few fence posts or empty beer cans.

I know I can think of more.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: jimmyt
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:48 PM

Rapaire, I guess I am like you in that I found it quite amusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:51 PM

Not ALL of us grew up hunting AND yes, you can too get vegetarian!

Not that amusing, unless you're from here and Know that it reinforces the stereotypes more, amusement intended or not. Sorry, Rapaire.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: mack/misophist
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:59 PM

It's not accurate. None of those lists ever are. Other than that, it sounds an awful lot like home. Except they forgot to mention that cafe's should have 3 kinds of hot sauce on the table.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: open mike
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 10:44 PM

William Least Heat Moon says that small town cafe's are
rated by the number of calendars they have hanging on
their wall. which reminds me i should add his Blue Hiways
and River HOrse to the best books thread...his travel
books are the stories of two-lane roads, ma and pa cafe's
and small town folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 10:07 AM

This one's been done before, here.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 09:32 AM

Not only was it posted before(by Spaw), but Jerry Rasmussen said just about the same things as before--the memory is the first thing to go, Jerry!

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 11:03 AM

Sorry if it offended anyone, but I didn't post it for amusement; never said I did. Sorry too about the repeat.

But a lot of it seems to be as accurate as generalizations can ever be, at least from my own observations and experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 11:33 AM

we have a big city country divide here Rapaire, with a few local changes this could have come out of any outback town in Oz.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 11:36 AM

I found it interesting and true.

Are ones who have a problem with it uncomfortable with the wonderful unsophistication of it all?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Nerd
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 11:51 AM

This has nothing to do with the "midwest and west." Indianapolis? Boulder? Chicago?

It's about rural vs. urban. It takes the positive stereotypes of the rural (salt of the earth, farming folk, live off the land, practical bent, etc.) and sets them against the negative stereotypes of the urban (keeping up with the joneses, yuppies, low riding jeans, drugs, etc.) Very clever.

But the problem is, these are just stereotypes. Most people in cities can't afford the kind of cars, drugs, drinks, etc, that this list mentions. Most people in big cities went there because of work, or they were born there and live in ghettoes. I'll put my "two full time job" janitor or custodial worker up against your farmer for how much work he did before sunrise any day.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 12:02 PM

Exactly, Nerd. These types of generalizations are all based on stereotypical perceptions, a kernel of truth taken to an extreme.

I remember when a farmer sold his land and it was turned into a housing subdivision, starting at $250,000 and up. The neighboring farm raised pigs. And sure as the sun came up, within 2 years the ciy folk who moved to the country to get away from the city had the farmer in court. This farmer was third generation on the land, raising hogs just like his Dad, and the city folks were saying things like "we have a right to protect our substantial investments". Know what? They won. A complete miscarriage of justice.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 12:03 PM

There's a HUGE urban/rural divide in the US. It affects everything from eating habits to gun ownership to proper care of the land.

The Lonely, Empty, Prairie Sky

In the midst of everywhere I know this place
as I know my own vice calling echoes up and down
the valley, as I know my eyes looking into a close-held
mirror, as my tongue knows the inside of my mouth.

I know the wind as intimately as I know love,
its mark and signature upon the fragile land,
and I know the smell of rain riding down the gale
across the hills, across the meadows, across the river

When seeping cold makes my bones
brittle inside my skin,
when relentless summer beats
my face with a golden hammer,
I am at home beneath the lonely, empty, prairie sky.
                                  --Joan Hoffman

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 12:21 PM

Odd, Big Mick. It's called "moving to the nuisance" and they probably won because they had more money than the pig farmer did. ("Pig farmer" isn't a slam, it's what he was.)

Seems to me that as we move to cities and shop in supermarkets we lose touch with the land. People are shocked that meat doesn't suddenly appear in neat little styrofoam trays, that all vegetables aren't perfectly formed and clean when they are picked, that food in general isn't the product of some mysterious manufacturing process but must be grown, raised from seed, that cattle shit and have uterine prolapses and crops are still dependent upon the weather. And they give little or no regard to the magnificent transportation system which, for those in the developed world anyway, can provide fresh, even white, aspargus in January.

Agriculture is, and has been, dirty, bloody, ill-paying, and absolutely necessary to our so-called civilization. And there are very, very few urban dwellers who are as much in tune with the land than farmers and ranchers -- or who, in the last analysis, love it as much.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 12:27 PM

Yep, Rapaire. I just picked a guy up who lost control of his truck and ended up in a snow drift 15 yards into a field. I gave him a lift home. He was telling me about his Da holding on to 160 acres of land that is prime for development so he had a place to get his hands dirty, smell the scent of fresh tilled ground, raise corn like it was his child, and have a place to walk with his old dog. I asked him at what point the taxes and the huge dollars offered by the developers kicks in. He said that when his Da was under the dirt, and probably not then. Selling the farm would be like selling kin, in his mind.

I wonder how long they will hold on......

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 12:47 PM

1. That farm boy standing next to the feed bin did more work before
breakfast than you do all week at the gym.


Good point. Americans spend billions every year going to gyms to make themselves workout. Hiking, climbing, cleaning the garage, planting a garden, volunteering to build a trail, there are lots of more interesting forms of physical activity than the gym.

After my one brief encounter with the world of fitness gyms, I decided it was nutz to drive to the gym for exercise. I'd be better off walking to the gym from my house and walking back home without going inside. The power walking as workout is better, it takes the same amount of time, and the price is right.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 01:19 PM

SRS, that one cracked me up. I remember, a few years back, when a local community had a controversy over the several million dollars spent on the athletic training facility, especially the hundreds of thousands spent on the weight/strength training facility. My nephew was arguing with me, and used the argument "How am I supposed to get in shape for football, Uncle Mick?" I told him to do it like I did. Throwing 90 lb. haybales up about 4 to 5 layers high on a trailer. By football season, you won't have enough fat on your body to butter a slice of bread, and plenty of upper body. He looked at me like I had a tail........LOL.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 03:06 PM

I live in a four story building. There are a couple of yuppie-types who live here who own Stair Masters. Wha. . . ?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM

My wife figures that 17 round trips from one end of our house to the other is a mile. For real exercise, there are the steps to the basement as well. I disagree, 'cause that would make the house over 155 feet long, and it's nowhere near that. Maybe 35 round trips....

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: beadie
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 04:48 PM

As a Midwesterner, I enjoyed it, warts and all.

The bit about the "pigs, . . . they smell that way" was right on as a stereotype of the city-dweller turned gentleman farmer.

Every year or so, some clown moves to his newly acquired piece of "land in the country" somewhere here in Wisconsin. He then builds and outlandishly huge house, landscapes about two acres of lawn, plants a bunch of trees that have absolutely no chance of surviving a Wisconsin winter and promptly files a lawsuit complaining that his neighbor's farm odors (beef cattle, dairy, poultry or swine) are a nuisance and driving down the value of the new guy's property . . . and moreover they likely have been having this effect for the entire century or more of the farm's existance.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 05:35 PM

Sounds a lot like West (by God) Virginia, too, with some minor differences.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 05:47 PM

You mean like the people have teeth?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Joybell
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 05:56 PM

Yes I'm with Freda, it does fit with sterotypes of rural and urban dwellers here in Australia too. There are subtle differences though. My True-love was born and raised in the American Midwest and before he opens his mouth his body language marks him as different out here in rural Australia.
I had a discussion with a folkie friend who had, like us, moved to the country and he was learning the index-finger wave and the slight head-nod. He reckoned he had it just about right, but it wasn't 'till he got the right sort of dog riding with him that men "waved" back.
I note that women tend to give a full on in-your-face wave to other women.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 06:06 PM

You mean like the people have teeth?

I don't know. Do they have teeth in the Midwest and West?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 06:09 PM

Back in the '70s, during the "return to the earth" movement, I was working in rural Ohio, about 30 miles outside Cleveland. Amish country, in fact.

Fella from the city, good job, well educated, bought a bit of land, moved his family out there, bought a pig to raise and slaughter come cool weather in the Fall.

Before it was time, he asked us at the library if we had books on slaughtering and butchering pigs. We had very little, so we bought some and he read 'em.

Bought himself a nice stickin' knife and had it touched up so that it would cut a dropped hair.

Day before he was in the library, telling us that "tomorrow is the day." One of the ladies there, an old farm wife, told him to take the pig to a packing house, but he wanted the whole "return to the earth" experience and was going to do the job himself.

About a week later he was back. I asked him how the pigsticking went. He just grunted and said, "Took the pig to a packing house."

"Why's that?" I asked.

He kinda got defensive and replied shortly, "They're not empty."

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Nerd
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 05:57 AM

To understand why Rapaire's list might be offensive, I offer the following post in counterpoint:

Given your unhealthy rural habit of eating big slabs of rare meat with a side of pork rinds, it's likely that you will be forced to leave your little backwater holler in order to visit a real doctor. Or, you may have the urge to see a sporting event, a concert, or perhaps even a play performed by adults. In this case, you will come to a city, and I offer the following pointers to help you get along.

(1) Here it's not acceptable to use the word "nigger" when referring to black people, even if you're talking with white folks. You see, here white people sometimes have friends and family who are black.

(2) We actually welcome people from all over the world into our town, which has its advantages. Here we can get Indian, Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese or Mexican food delivered to our homes. We also have a nice international word for those carp you catch and eat. In fact, it's almost the same word you use. It's "crap."

(3) We don't like phoniness or dishonesty here. If we don't give a rat's ass about you, we won't wave, say "howdy," or pretend to be concerned, the way you folks do. Don't worry, you'll find that deep down you don't even care.

(4) Dentists are people who take care of other folks' teeth. That's why most of us here still have some teeth.

(5) You can't wear your overalls to the opera. Buy a change of clothes, will you?

(6) Stop chewing on that stalk of hay. You look like a dipshit.

(7) Don't call the nice youth on the corner a crackhead, or his mother will kick the crap out of you.

(8) I don't care if you are a farmer, you're not so damn tough. Those guys in matching shirts over there kill people just for the hell of it, and they'd eat you for breakfast.

(9) Don't be a schmuck, you can't just drive your pickup onto the lawn like that.

(10) That pretty girl you saw me with is my sister. Here in town, that automatically means I do not have sex with her. And if you want to have sex with her, you'd better learn to wash off the smell of pig.

Etc., etc., etc...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 09:59 AM

Dang, Nerd: It sounds like you have a problem with rural folks. Sometimes friendly is friendly.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 10:05 AM

Jerry, Nerd was trying to show what would be offensive with the first stereotypical post by contrasting it from the other side. I don't think he really has a problem with country folk, rather he was making a point, at least that is how I took it. And the point is a fair one. Perceived stereotypes are generally inaccurate, gratuitous assertions and serve no useful purpose.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Nerd
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 12:40 PM

Thanks, Big Mick. That's exactly it.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 12:52 PM

Yeah, but a nerd's a nerd.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 02:29 PM

Visit a real doctor? You mean that Granny Hyit ain't a real doctor? Er maybe you think that jist cuz we'uns up hyar in the hills ain't got much eddycashun we ain't got no linear accelerators like you big-city folks got?

As fer kissin' yer sister, I'll kiss yours if you'll kiss mine. Sister, that it. An' I'll not only wash ma face, I'll even bresh ma tooth up nice an' shiny an' purty jist fer her.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Sam L
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 12:11 AM

What I still don't understand about the mid-west and west is why it's 80% of the continent and the mid-east is around the the other side of the world.

Agree about gyms. As if there's nothing worth doing left in the world, we have to invent fake work. If only we could harness stupidity and narcissism for some purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 07:20 AM

Hey, Mick:

It's funny (and that's the point.) I generally bristle at stereotypes that seem to divide people, or are judgmental. But, to some extent it depends on the spirit in which the stereotypes are offered, and who makes them. Usually, I find stereotypes that are poking fun at ourselves funny, and often wise. They can be a way to look at who we are and why we do what we do in a way that isn't judgmental, and can be revealing.

A case in point:

A few years ago, when I was going to a Lutheran church and was good friends with the Pastor, I suggested that we do a potluck dinner jointly with the black Baptist church across the street. We had a great time... 100 people... about half African-American and the other half Scandinavian-American. After the dinner, we spent the evening singing gospel music. I lead the "white" gospel section, with everyone having a great time joining in, and then the Director of the Men's Chorus at the black church led the "black" gospel section. When he was talking about black gospel, he said that one of the common elements of black gospel is that when it is sung, the people like to move with the music, and he asked everyone to hold their hands over their heads and move with the music while they sang. My friend, the Pastor of the Lutheran church said to our black visitors, "Don't stand too close to a Lutheran. We're not very co-ordinated and you might accidently get hit in the head.." Everyone had a good laugh.

The biggest market for ethnic humor is the group being kidded... I doubt that the Ku Kux Klan listened to Dick Gregory or Richard Pryor. Madison Avenue sophisticates probably don't buy Jeff Foxworthy books. I thought the comments in the opening post were funny, because I AM a Midwesterner, even if I've spent more than half my life in Connecticut.

Sometimes it's allright just to guffaw!

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 08:12 AM

Hey, Mick:

We're missing a great opportunity here. How about starting a stand-up comic routine, "You know you're a folksinger if.."

You know you're a folksinger if your idea of a night on the town is going to listen to someone sing a song about air pollution."

Probably be too offensive..

Hee, Hee!

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 10:04 AM

Usually, I find stereotypes that are poking fun at ourselves funny, and often wise.

Jerry, the bit of comedy in the opening post looks like it's poking fun at everyone except people from the Midwest and West.

I understand it's meant to be funny, but it just looks ignorant and jingoistic to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 10:39 AM

Sorry, Carol and others. I agree with Jerry. But that said, I also agree with you.

There is no inherent problem in this. There ARE those in the West and Midwest who ARE biased, opposed to change, closed minded. There are also such in urban areas (and Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, San Franisco, Seattle, and other places are Middle Western or Western urban areas by any definition). Rural areas have no monopoly on pigheadedness and ignorance, closed minds or, for that matter, open hearts and hands.

Here in Idaho, there was a large enclave of Nazis. Of the 1.2 million people in the state, all but about 80 of them were embarassed, angered, and vehemently opposed to that enclave. Ted Kazinski (the Unibomber guy) was arrested in Montana. Ed Gein was a horrible murderer in Wisconsin. None of this makes everyone in Idaho a Nazi, everyone in Montana a bomber, or everyone in Wisconsin a sadistic killer any more than MOM makes everyone in New York an artist or the South Bronx makes them a violent druggie.

The US doesn't stop at the Kennebac, the Charles, the Hudson, the Potomac, or the Mississippi. Nor does it stop at the Sacramento, the Pecos, the Rio Grande, the Snake, the Columbia, the Salmon, the Yellowstone or the Missouri (and if you don't know where these rivers are, why not?). It is, fortunately, made up of a rainbow of people who hold a wide, varying range of opinions -- thankfully, for a bland, homogenous mass would be boring in the extreme and, I suspect, fall apart.

As for lists like the one I started this with --

You Know You Are In San Francisco, when....

1-Your co-worker tells you they have 8 body piercings but none are visible.

2-When someone says TENDERLOIN - you don't think of steak. You think of danger.

3-You make over $100,000 and still can't afford a house.

4-You take a bus and are shocked at 2 people carrying on a onversation in English.

5-You never bother looking at the MUNI line schedule because you know the drivers have never seen it.

6-You can't remember... is pot illegal?

7-You've been to more than one baby shower that has two mothers and a sperm donor.

8-You have a very strong opinion where your coffee beans are grown and can taste the difference between Sumatra and Ethiopian.

9-A really great parking space can move you to tears.

10-You know that anyone wearing shorts in April is just visiting from Ohio.

11-You assume every company offers domestic partner benefits.

12-Your boss runs in "The Bay to Breakers".... it's the first time you have seen him/her nude.

13-Your child's 3rd grade teacher has two pierced ears, a nose ring and is named "Breeze." And, after telling that to a friend, they still need to ask if the teacher is male or female.

14-You are thinking of taking an adult class but you can't decide between yoga, aromatherapy, conversational mandarin or a building your own web site class.

15-You haven't been to Fisherman's Wharf since the first month you moved to SF and you couldn't figure out how to drive to Coit Tower if your life depended on it.

16-A man walks on MUNI in full leather regalia and crotchless chaps. You don't notice.

17-A woman walks on MUNI with live poultry. You don't notice.

18-You think any guy with a George Clooney haircut must be visiting from the midwest.

19-You know that any woman with a George Clooney haircut is not a tourist.

20-You keep a list of companies to boycott.

21-Your hairdresser is straight, your plumber is gay, the woman who delivers your mail is straight and your Mary Kay Lady is a guy in drag.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 11:18 AM

Burns, I think, said it well in "To A Louse":

...O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us
And foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
And ev'n Devotion!

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 11:20 AM

O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!

My father likes to use this one a lot. Only problem is, he only uses it when talking about other people's shortcomings ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 12:15 PM

stereotypes are natural, useful ways for identifying and categorizing our universe...the problem arises when folks start using them as Manuals for Identifying the Enemy.

It is easy to make cute lists of common attributes for certain cultural/ethnic groups or geographic areas, but it is VERY hard to see the relevance of those attributes or view them with any kind of perspective that fairly takes into account your own viewpoint and prejudices---too hard for many people to even try....easier to just ridicule anything that is not THEIR way.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 03:14 PM

I still think the opening post is funny. But then, our response says as much about us as it does about what we're responding to. Maybe it's because I've known people who pretty much fit the description in that first post (exagerated for humoroues effect as it is.) Some have been delightful people, and some have been asses. I think when delightful people and complete idiots were distributed, no culture, region or race got a monopoly. Same with stereotypes. Someone can say something that I think is funny because of the intonation of their voice (which doesn't translate well on the internet) or because it's clear that they're including themselves in the joke. Someone else could say the exact same (I argued with my son's high school English teacher that "exact same" is redundant, and lost) statement and I'd find it offensive because I know the person and their prejudice, or even just in the way that they said it. Or, the context in which they said it.

Reading stuff on the internet is like listening to music with the sound turned off.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Teresa
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 04:10 PM

Rapaire:
Re: San Francisco (and that's right around where I live):

LOL!

I'll be moving away from the Bay Area soon. Time for a change.

Well, I laughed. I'm going to laugh first and ask questions later, if at all. As long as I intend to harm no one, I hope that will do.
Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 04:56 PM

Dang, Nerd: It sounds like you have a problem with rural folks. Sometimes friendly is friendly.

I still think the opening post is funny. But then, our response says as much about us as it does about what we're responding to.

--Jerry Rasmussen

It looks to me like you only find it funny when it's about other people, but when the same kind of humor is directed at people you identify with, you think it's hateful. Can you see the inconsistency here?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the Midwest and West
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 07:17 PM

Not quite sure I follow you, Carol. I went back and read the original post and Nerd's posts. Perhaps I'm reading between the lines (which is a reflection on me) but the opening comments sounded like they were said as humorous, with obvious exagerations. That's why I took them as being funny. My take. Some of Nerds comments sounded kinda mean-spirited, and certainly not meant to be humorous. As I say, it's all in the delivery, and in personal interpretation. The first list sounded like a lot of other lists I've read over the years, where people are poking fun at themselves. (My take) Nerd's comments sounded like someone from the outside making comments that weren't meant to be funny.

Truth is, you could make a list about any group which could be good-natured kidding around, or mean-spirited. When you're just reading text on a computer screen it's easy to missinterpret the intent of a posting. I consider myself a Midwesterner at heart, and can laugh about what seems to me to be good-natured kidding around. At the same time, I guess my hackles rise, if I think that people are saying things only to belittle some other group.

And then, I can be dead wrong, too. That's one of the qualities of us Midwesterners..

Jerry