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song for sermon on early Irish Christian

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PATRICK WAS A GENTLEMAN


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GUEST,Susan-Marie (on my un-cookied laptop) 05 Mar 04 - 04:02 PM
Padre 05 Mar 04 - 04:34 PM
GUEST,Susan-Marie 05 Mar 04 - 04:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Mar 04 - 08:02 PM
GUEST,leeneia 06 Mar 04 - 09:49 AM
ced2 06 Mar 04 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,JTT 06 Mar 04 - 10:13 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 06 Mar 04 - 11:08 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 06 Mar 04 - 11:19 AM
open mike 06 Mar 04 - 01:57 PM
Fliss 07 Mar 04 - 12:04 PM
wysiwyg 07 Mar 04 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Mar 04 - 09:08 PM
Jimmy C 07 Mar 04 - 09:19 PM
Jim Dixon 10 Mar 04 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,Susan-Marie 11 Mar 04 - 07:55 AM
Rapparee 11 Mar 04 - 09:10 AM
GUEST,ET, Guest 11 Mar 04 - 10:03 AM
Cuilionn 11 Mar 04 - 12:05 PM
Uncle_DaveO 11 Mar 04 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,Judy Goddard 23 May 10 - 09:03 AM
GUEST 05 Aug 10 - 08:34 AM
Jack Campin 05 Aug 10 - 01:29 PM
Ellieb 31 May 11 - 07:13 PM
GUEST,mg 01 Jun 11 - 03:35 PM
Richard from Liverpool 01 Jun 11 - 04:45 PM
Richard from Liverpool 01 Jun 11 - 04:59 PM
Richard from Liverpool 01 Jun 11 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,MKiely 16 Jan 17 - 04:05 PM
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Subject: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,Susan-Marie (on my un-cookied laptop)
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:02 PM

..ity

It's that time of year again, when my UU church has an Irish-themed service and our band does some music to accompany the service. This year the theme is the transition from paganism to early Christianity.
I'm looking for suggestions on a song or two that would be appropriate. I'm not expecting any trad songs to be on this topic so contemporary is fine. I'm already considering "Be Thou My Vision" in gaelic (it's based on an Irish tune) or maybe Mary McLaughlin's "Bring the Peace". Any other suggestions?


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Padre
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:34 PM

"St. Patrick's Breastplate" would be a great musical choice, except that the words are an explicit description of the Trinitarian formula and my guess is that the Unitarians would not take too kindly to that challenge to their core doctrine.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,Susan-Marie
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:53 PM

Actually, being Unitarian Universalists, we poke fun at ourselves on a regular basis so that song might be fun. Thanks for the suggestion.


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Subject: ADD Version: The Deer's Cry
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 08:02 PM

"Be Thou my Vision" and "St Patrick's Breastplate" are both from different parts of St Patricks great prayer "The Deer's Cry". (All right the academic say it wasn't St Patrick wrote it, but they weren't around at the time any more than anyone else.

THE DEER'S CRY

I arise to-day
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through belief in the threeness,
Through confession of the oneness
Of the Creator of Creation.
I arise to-day
Through the strength of Christ's birth with His baptism,
Through the strength of His crucifixion with His burial,
Through the strength of His resurrection with His ascension,
Through the strength of His descent for the judgment of Doom.

I arise to-day
Through the strength of the love of Cherubim,
In obedience of angels,
In the service of archangels,
In hope of resurrection to meet with reward,
In prayers of patriarchs,
In predictions of prophets,
In preachings of apostles,
In faiths of confessors,
In innocence of holy virgins,
In deeds of righteous men.

I arise to-day
Through the strength of heaven:
Light of sun,
Radiance of moon,
Splendour of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of wind,
Depth of sea,
Stability of earth,
Firmness of rock.

I arise to day
Through God's strength to pilot me:
God's might to uphold me,
God's wisdom to guide me,
God's eye to look before me,
God's ear to hear me,
God's word to speak for me,
God's hand to guard me,
God's way to lie before me,
God's shield to protect me,
God's host to save me
From snares of devils,
From temptations of vices,
From every one who shall wish me ill,
Afar and anear,
Alone and in a multitude.

I summon to-day all these powers between me and those evils,
Against every cruel merciless power that may oppose my body and soul,
Against incantations of false prophets,
Against black laws of pagandom,
Against false laws of heretics,
Against craft of idolatry,
Against spells of women and smiths and wizards,
Against every knowledge that corrupts man's body and soul.

Christ to shield me to-day
Against poison, against burning,
Against drowning, against wounding,
So that there may come to me abundance of reward.
Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down, Christ when I arise,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of every one who speaks of me,
Christ in every eye that sees me,
Christ in every ear that hears me.

I arise to-day
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through belief in the threeness,
Through confession of the oneness
Of the Creator of Creation.


That's Kuno Meyer's translation - from this site, which has a whole set of other early Gaelic poems he translated. Some of them would work pretty well as readings.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 09:49 AM

Here are the words for "This Day God Gives Me," a hymn in the Catholic "Breaking Bread" song book.

This day God gives me Strength of high heaven
Sun and Moon shining, Flame in my hearth
Flashing of lightning, Wind in its swiftness,
Deeps of the ocean, Firmness of earth.

This day God sends me Strength as my guardian,
Might to uphold me, Wisdom as guide.
Your eyes are watchful, your ears are list'ning,
Your lips are speaking, Friend at my side.

God's way is my way, God's shield is 'round me,
God's host defends me, Saving from ill.
Angels of heaven, Drive from me always
All that would harm me, Stand by me still.

Rising I thank you, Mighty and Strong One
King of creation, Giver of rest.
Firmly confessing Threeness of Persons
Oneness of Godhead, Trinity blest.

The tune is Bunessan, the same tune used for Morning is Broken. This is a traditional, public-domain tune.

Although the message is subtle, the poem is saying "Don't worry about the sky god, the moon god, the fire god, the wind god.... There is one God in charge of all things. My God is my friend and protector." So I think it's a pretty good transition from pagan to Judeo-Christian thought.

The book states "Text ascr. to St Patrick, 372-466, adapted by James D. Quinn, SJ, b. 1919, copyright 1969. Reprinted by permission of Selah PUblishing Co., Kingston NY."

Considering the amount of time it takes to express the thoughts and make them into rhyming poetry, I guess the copyright is reasonable.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: ced2
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 09:55 AM

Vatican Rag by Tom Lehrer


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:13 AM

Another version here - though the tune is different to the one I learned:

http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/i/i024.html


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 11:08 AM

How about the beautiful and Gregorian-sounding "Deus Meus" ? I don't have any references on it to hand (and no time to search for any right now) but it's well worth consideration. The Irish group Na Fili recorded it some years ago (I think the album was called "A Kindly Welcome" but I could be mistaken). Anyone add any further info to this? Unfortunately I'm rushing or I'd find it myself -


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 11:19 AM

Here's the text:

Deus meus, adiuva me
Deus meus
Deus meus, adiuva me
Tuc dam do sheirc, a meic mo Dé.
Tuc dam do sheirc, a meic mo Dé.
Deus meus, adiuva me.
In meum cor, ut sanum sit,
tuc, a Rí rán, do grád co gribb.
Tuc, a Rí rán, do grád co gribb
in meum cor, ut sanum sit.

Domine, da quod peto a te ---
Tuc, tuc co dían, a grían glan glé ---
Tuc, tuc co dían, a grían glan glé ---
Domine, da quod peto a te ---
Hanc spero rem et quaero quam,
do sherc dam sunn, do sherc dam tall,
do sherc dam sunn, do sherc dam tall,
hanc spero rem et quaero quam.
Tuum amorem, sicut vis,
Tuc dam co trén (at-bér do-rís).
Tuc dam co trén (at-bér do-rís)
Tuum amorem, sicut vis.
Quaero, postulo, peto a te.
Mo beith i nim, a meic dil Dé.
Mo beith i nim, a meic dil Dé,
quaero, postulo, peto a te.
Domine mi, exaudi me.
M' ainim rop lán dot grád, a Dé.
M' ainim rop lán dot grád, a Dé
Deus meus, adiuva me.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: open mike
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 01:57 PM

how about Jimmy Driftwood's "ST. Brendan's Fair Isle"?


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Fliss
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 12:04 PM

Lord of All Hopefullness uses the same Irish Air as Be Thou My Vision.
Any idea what the Irish Air is called. We play it quite often in our practice session as it is such a beautiful tune.
fliss


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 12:16 PM

It's Slane.

How about contacting Mudcatter Susan in California? If you do a Mudcat search for the CD review I wrote for her husband's CD, you should find a link to his setting of the Breastplate. Wonderful thing. Not Irish but kinda universal sounding-- as is the rest of his stuff.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:08 PM

Re: "This year the theme is the transition from paganism to early Christianity."

Well, Susan, that sounds like the kind of half-thought-thing that somebody comes up with in a meeting, a meeting from which somebody else is supposed to depart and then do all the work.

I've been a Christian for years, and the number of items I can think of which deal with the transition from paganism to Christianity is 1 - the song "This day God gives me."

I bet that 99% of the people in your church just wnat to hear some good music and think a few good thoughts. Why don't you just do one of the songs that Mudcatters have suggested here and then move on to other pieces which you like and which are appropriate to a service?

i.e., don't do "Whiskey before Breakfast."


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Jimmy C
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:19 PM

How about " Hail Glorious Saint Patrick " ?.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 06:44 PM

Speaking of Unitarian jokes—

Utah Phillips claims that his religious opinions are so heretical that the Unitarians burned a question-mark on his lawn.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,Susan-Marie
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 07:55 AM

I love UU jokes. My favorite is: What do you get when you cross a UU with a Jehova's Witness? SOmeone who goes around knocking on doors for no apparent reason.

No, Leenia, the sermon topic was not arrived at by committee. Our very learned and gracious minister chose it. When we provide music for a church service we try very hard to find something that enhances the worship experience. We play whatever we want at our other gigs.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions - I will follow up on them all (well, maybe not the Vatican Rag, but only because we did that at last year's community dinner).


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 09:10 AM

How about "Morning Has Broken"? It might not be orignally Celtic, but it has the right feel to it.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,ET, Guest
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 10:03 AM

Just a note - mentioned yesterday in a class for literacy teachers, but which I think is also appropriate here - the more info you give in an introduction, the more likely people are to actually listen and think about what they're hearing/singing. ET


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Cuilionn
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 12:05 PM

A hantle (hand-full) o sources o guid Celtic kirk music:

Buiks:
"Songs of Celtic Christianity" by Dennis & Paula Doyle
(ISBN 1-886314-00-4) Published by Incarnation Music, P.O. Box 1061, Glendale, CA 91209, phone: (818)956-1311, e-mail: carolan@aol.com
(Traditional hymns & a few originals, arrangements are very simple & there are two cassettes of the material available for those who learn better by ear. This is a nice, accessible resource, but I found myself wishing for more ornamentation, complex harmony, and that old "minor modal" Celtic sound--things that would probably make the music LESS accessible to the average American!

"Songs and Hymns of Scotland" by L. MacBean
(ISBN 0-912951-51-6) Published by Scotpress, P.O. Box 397, Bruceton Mills, WV 26525. This is a 1988 reprint of Eneas MacKay's "The Songs & Hymns of the Gael", first published in Stirling in 1900. Songs are in Scottish Gaelic with florid Victorian "singable" translations.

The Iona Community (an intentional ecumenical faith community based on Scotland's Isle of Iona) & its publishing arm, "Wild Goose Press", have created a wide range of ecumenical worship materials based on Celtic styles & sources. The quality of the material is quite good. I'm not sure of their website, but you can probably track them down through a search.

Recordings:
Sean O' Riada, Irish Traditional Music Revivalist & Composer, set many traditional Irish prayers to music and composed a number of Irish-language masses. His setting of "Ag Criost an Siol" (To Christ the Seed) is sung by Maria Doyle Kennedy on the 1997 Work/Sony Wonder compilation, "The Planet Sleeps" (OK 67772). It's a beautiful song that would suit your sermon/service theme quite nicely.

"Lasair Dhe/Flame of God: A Celebration of Gaelic Spiritual Music", (SKYECD19, copyright 2001 Macmeannma) recorded by Cliar with guests Kenna Campbell & Donnie Murdo MacLeod & a 200-voice Gaelic choir, is another excellent recording. The work won several major awards in Scotland. With the exception of field recordings (available from the School of Scottish Studies), no other recording matches this one for cultural authenticity. Sheet music might be available; contact the publisher/copyright holder.

Ah've offerit some Scottish Hebridean resources aboon, an that micht seem wrang-heidit, but Ah've haird it said that the folk o Ireland & the folk o the Hebrides are claise cousins frae common stock, wi muckle shared atween 'em. Mony o the priests sairvin Hebridean kirks cam frae Ireland theirsels, an the kirk traditions o Scottish Hielan Catholics & Irish Catholics were claise indeed, includin their choice o hymns. There are ither resources ayont the anes Ah've screevit, o course, but these are the anes Ah've haed a chance tae luik/listen ower, an Ah've field-testit 'em a wee bit tae be sure.

An Beannachd Oirbh/Blessings,

--Cuilionn


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:16 PM

I'm another UU, and I sing (and recommend) a song called "Call Down A Blessing", which WYSIWYG tells me is a version of "St. Brendan's Breastplate", but without the doctrinal stuff.

If you like, I can e-mail you the words, with an attachment of me singing the tune.

It makes a great audience (congregation) participation number, and wouild be right at home in a UU church, I think.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,Judy Goddard
Date: 23 May 10 - 09:03 AM

Thanx,Cuilionn.

This looks like a wealth of info!


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Subject: RE: name and remininig words for this song
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 08:34 AM

three things i ask thee before we part .one tiny corner for me in your heart , one thought for me with every passing day


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 01:29 PM

There ought to be musical settings of the poems on Mad King Sweeney, which are set at the point of transition between paganism and Christianity. But I can't find any. Anyone?


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Ellieb
Date: 31 May 11 - 07:13 PM

Hi , I am Looking for the name of the song with the words , Three things i ask of you before we part , one tiny corner for me in your heart as posted by guest on Aug 10 , I have searched but to no avail , can anyone help me please ? thank you


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 01 Jun 11 - 03:35 PM

what language did st. patrick write his song in? Latin? Gaelic? Breton? mg


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 01 Jun 11 - 04:45 PM

The Prayer known as St Patrick's Breastplate survived in Old Irish, but it doesn't necessarily mean that St Patrick originally wrote it in that form, if indeed he wrote it at all. The writings of St Patrick that are more definitely attributed to him (letters) are in Latin.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 01 Jun 11 - 04:59 PM

If you do decide to go for St Patrick's Breastplate, may I just say, the most beautiful version is C.V. Stanford's, based on a melody from the 1903 Petrie Collection of Irish Music (see Petrie's Complete Irish Music, ed George Petrie and subsequently continued after Petrie's death by Stanford). I'm not sure if anybody is implying other versions (e.g. I've heard it sung to Morning Has Broken, which is trite in the extreme), but I just thought it best to clarify. The Stanford is the way to go! Very powerful when done well.


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 01 Jun 11 - 05:16 PM

(I should say, based on two different Irish melodies from that book. The first part "I bind unto myself today..." uses one melody, then the verses "Christ beside me, Christ before me" are set to a contrasting melody, a simple smooth tune in a major key. Then the hymn returns to the first tune.)


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Subject: RE: song for sermon on early Irish Christian
From: GUEST,MKiely
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 04:05 PM

Hi EllieB,

Did you ever find any version of the song "Three things i ask of you before we part , one tiny corner for me in your heart"? My grandmother used to sing it to my Mother & Aunts, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. I would love to get a copy of the song on cd to present to them. If you have any updates could you let me know please?

Thanks,

M...
    Please continue discussion of "three things" in this thread (click). Thanks. -Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-


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