BS: Australian election date

Subject: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 May 04 - 08:13 AM

rumours rumours rumours

that the election will be held on 7th August.


(Liberals have booked the Wentworth Hotel for that night)

Alexander Downer has just cancelled a visit to the US next month....



Are you enrolled to vote? once the election is announced, they won't take any further enrollments.


freda

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Guy
Date: 23 May 04 - 11:32 AM

Interesting and very informative. Thanx.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 04 - 04:40 PM

I can't register from here, freda. But then, I'm Canadian. Hope things are well.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 23 May 04 - 05:47 PM

Well, things could be well if we could just have a change of federal government. Maybe? If we could work out a way to elect people other than politicians, of course. :-)

It was nice to see Little Johnny's bid at buying the Oz public with the budget falling flat on its face. Nothing like widening the gap between rich and poor to increase your voting percentages, eh?

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 23 May 04 - 08:09 PM

If the Australian people decide to put us through another four years of Howard, Downer, Costello, and the rest of the corporate brown-nosers I'll move to New Zealand.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 23 May 04 - 10:12 PM

Three years, John. You've been reading the wrong papers. I just hope we don't get stuck with the little slimeball for even that long.

Interesting note: If my calcukations are correct, Honest John has to win the election in order to overtake Bob Hawke (another toe rag, IMHO) to become Australia's second longest serving Prime Minister after Johnny's idol, Bob Menzies. I think that is why he has stayed around so long.

I also think that Johnny has been busting for some event so he can hold an slection with a good press. His budget was supposed to do that but it fell on its face, even though the Labor Party really made a mess of its response.

Johnny's next hope is to be able to pull our troops out of Iraq as soon as the new Iraqi "government" takes over from 30 June. Then he can have homecoming parades for the troops, etc., - no matter what sort of mess is left behind in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: DaveA
Date: 23 May 04 - 11:01 PM

Back in the 80's when Malcolm Frazer was PM & little Johnnie was his Treasurer, Eric Bogle had a song called "Batman & Boy Blunder". I remember him saying at a gig that he didn't know how to respond to the election result that got rid of the pair of them but also made redundant many of his topical songs!!!

Eric, are you prepared to sacrifice a few more to finally bury that "survive at all costs" maniac who is dragging this country down???

Please.....

DaveA

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Donal
Date: 23 May 04 - 11:19 PM

I'd say it's a toss-up, should he go for an election now because things might
get worse, or wait in the hope that Latham will make some irretrievable   
blunder, which given Latham's tendency to shoot from the lip, could easily
happen. Either way, one can only hope that if Labor DO win, they will show
that they can do better than the Hawke or Keating governments.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 24 May 04 - 12:18 AM

What if little Johnny Dick-In-Ear gets re-elected and George Dubya Dick-In-Ear doesn't?
I expect he will gracefully stand aside and hand the helm to young Peter Dick-In-Ear.

Hrothgar,
My mistake, three years.
I've been reading too many American threads on the same subject and with surprisingly similar sentiments being expressed - hope and dread mainly.

An interesting year, this one.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: DaveA
Date: 24 May 04 - 01:17 AM

With all due respect to the preceding guest, the day John Howard "gracefully stands aside" for anyone is the day I will expect to see a whole squadron of flying objects with curly tails & apples in their mouths!!!

As the politician who came up with "Core" & "non Core" policies and destroyed the Westminster system in this country, the coupling of "grace" with his modus operandi is somewhere between an oxymoron & offensive.

Alas for my country - who was it who said we get the politicians we deserve!!!!

DaveA

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Blackcatter
Date: 24 May 04 - 01:26 AM

Hear that George W. wants in on the race.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 24 May 04 - 02:57 AM

"....If the Australian people decide to put us through another four years of Howard, Downer, Costello, and the rest of the corporate brown-nosers I'll move to New Zealand.".......
Hate to say it Guest John, but it never seems to make much difference what the Australian people actually want, they only get what the pollies and their backers decide to give us to choose from. And it doesn't seem to matter who gets in, 'cos it's always the same s**t, only the depth changes - and they're standing on our shoulders.

Personally, I'd rather have no party politics, no nominations, no candidates, no electioneering, and everybody eligible to be voted for..... Oh, and national average wages for elected representatives. That should stop the professional politicians from polluting government. They can go get jobs with their mates in the big businesses they've sold off or frightened off, and let some honest people do the job for Australia, not for the party or the money.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 24 May 04 - 06:15 AM

I happened to hear a sound byte from Little Johnny on tv defending his budget. He was asked why the lower income earners were totally missing out on tax cuts. He replied that by giving the tax cuts to the people who earn $50,000 and more he was providing an incentive to lower income earners to increase their income.

'Scuse me while I pick my chin up off the floor. What percentage of the workforce are struggling to get a job at all, let alone a permanent/secure job with holiday pay and sick leave, and what percentage of us - even with degrees upon degrees - are still trying to make ends meet on wages that are below the national average, and how does he propose to help us to get jobs worth $50K per annum?

Lost a lot of votes with that little slip, Johnny-boy!

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 24 May 04 - 09:43 AM

Helen, I missed that one - I want one of those jobs!!

Ratz, I don't have a degree, silly of me to delete the email telling me I had been nominated for a Ph.D. Tho it is still in Trash, maybe I can answer it & get ahead ...

sandra (watching piggies flying by)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 May 04 - 09:57 AM

if this date is correct, two and a half months to go....

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 24 May 04 - 08:11 PM

"Personally, I'd rather have no party politics, no nominations, no candidates, no electioneering, and everybody eligible to be voted for..... "

Ozmacca, that's getting frighteningly close to what ancient Athenian democracy was like isn't it?
Do you mean to say to don't approve of the innovations?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 25 May 04 - 12:25 AM

Innovations? I'd say we've been going backwards for centuries John. I reckon the ancient Greeks may have had the right idea at first but got carried away by wanting to select the kind of people you could pick from (by disenfranchising criminals, slaves, poor people with no property, and all those other undesirable elements of society like women). Party politics were introduced so that one bunch of conflicting self-interests could outnumber and out-vote the other bunch of conflicting self-interests and things haven't changed much.

I say that everybody of mature and responsible age (so ok, let's settle for if you're old enough to serve in the forces and can tell right from wrong) then you should be able to vote, and you should be able to be voted for - without some money driven machine to push you. How much is George Dubbya spending this time around? How much does it cost the UK or Oz to mount the election campaigns just to get more of the same old same old. Spend the money where it needs spending, on fighting poverty and hunger - supporting social welfare at home and abroad, as well as security, health and education. Big business spends enough on advertising products. Don't let's spend the public purse on advertising politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 04 - 03:24 AM

8 seats to defeat: 13 seats to victory
"If we lose eight seats at the next federal election we are gone, we are out of business and the Labor Party is the government not only in the eight states and territories but also at a national level."
John Howard, September 2003

The House of Representatives notionally has 83 Coalition held seats. Labor has 63 members, the Greens 1 and the independents 3 for a total of 150 members. These are notional seats because there have been changes to electoral boundaries in Queensland, Victoria and South Australia since the 2001 Federal election.

Going into the 2004 election, the Coalition has a notional majority of 15 seats over all other parties in the House of Representatives. The Coalition would lose its absolute majority if 8 seats were lost at the next election. Labor needs to win an additional 13 seats for an absolute majority. If the result falls in-between, we may have a minority government that depends on the support of some independents and/or a minor party to govern.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 04 - 03:31 AM

...and I see Howard is standing by that Adelaide woman who took her boyfriend on a sordid romp at taxpayers' expense.
Not that he would ever admit any of his gang of thugs ever did anything wrong, but especially not now when every seat is so vital.
Hers is borderline Liberal too, I believe.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 May 04 - 06:16 AM

Can't really blame poor old Honest John for the slip-up over the tax cuts. Remember, the poor bugger never gets to talk to anybody who makes less than $100,000 a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: JennieG
Date: 25 May 04 - 07:31 AM

It doesn't matter who we vote for......we still get a politician.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 May 04 - 10:07 AM

Howard points to late election, The Australian, By James Grubel
May 25, 2004

PRIME Minister John Howard hinted today the next election could be held later rather than sooner while conceding the Iraq war had become a negative issue for the government. Mr Howard warned coalition MPs and senators the election odds were in Labor's favour as a new poll showed the ALP had a 12-point lead over the government and would easily win an election held now. The poll in the Fairfax newspapers also found 63 per cent of respondents believed the war on Iraq was not justified, up from 51 per cent last year.

The poll suggests Opposition Leader Mark Latham is winning support for his promise to bring Australia's 850 troops home by Christmas. However, Mr Howard reaffirmed the government would not change its policy on Iraq, and Australian troops would remain on the ground until their job was completed.

"There has been very negative publicity coming out of Iraq, and that Iraq has been a negative to us," a spokesman quoted Mr Howard as telling a meeting of government MPs and senators. "But he went on to say that there will not be any change in the government's position."
He later told parliament the opinion polls would not force a change of policy.

"This government has absolutely no intention of altering its position in relation to being part of the coalition in Iraq," Mr Howard said. "We did not enter the coalition (of the willing) on the basis of opinion polls last year, and we have absolutely no intention, on the basis of opinion polls, of altering our position at the present time." Earlier, he gave a strong hint to his party room that he was now looking at an election late in the year.

"We face a very big fight at the end of the year, or whenever the election is held," the spokesman quoted Mr Howard as saying. "The odds are very much against us. "We are in the fight of our political lives. All energy must be focused on that."

Mr Howard can call an election at any time, but the earliest practical date is August 7 due to the timing of future House and half Senate elections. The prime minister has ruled out a December election, making it likely the poll would be called for October so that it could be out of the way before November's US presidential elections. Mr Latham warned his MPs and senators against any complacency and urged them to maintain discipline.

"As the government becomes more desperate, and we've seen some desperation from them, it is very important that we maintain discipline and continue to focus on our issues," a party spokeswoman quoted Mr Latham as telling the meeting. "Whilst there are good poll results in various newspapers, it's always harder in the marginals.

"There is no sense that there is any room for complacency. "The important thing is for us to keep putting forward our policy positions and keep focussed and disciplined as we march towards the election campaign."

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 May 04 - 04:38 AM

Helen, the "he was providing an incentive to lower income earners to increase their income" comes from the US advisors to the Liberal Party.

US people think they will be rich next year, Aussies think they will be poor next year... :-)

Interesting to see Amanda Vandstone on Andrew Denton's 'Enough Rope' repeating the meme 'People who think they have the Right To Rule never have Doubts'... but attacking it ;-)



Freda

Fanaticism consists of insisting on doing the same things harder without knowing why... :-)



I just got mail from the AEC telling me I have been shifted from Ryan (now is Liberal seat, but for a few years a certain Lady held it for the Labor Party!) to Arch Bevis's strong Labor seat... Surprise!

Suspect the election will be soon...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: JennyO
Date: 27 May 04 - 11:16 AM

And here's another sign. Looks like he is trying to win over the votes of the Hansonites and rednecks in country seats:

PM targets gays in marriage law

Makes me sick - to quote one of the comments on that site:

narrow minded, blinkered, backward thinking little sycophant

It was interesting to note though that in a poll also on that site, In answer to the question "Rate the PM's move", 62% of people said his move was unfair, and in answer to the other question "How concerned are you about erosion of marriage institution?" (a loaded question IMO), 54% said "Not at all".

I think he might have miscalculated with this one. I sincerely hope so. I can't wait to see him gone.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 04 - 11:53 AM

Don't forget - If you can't vote in the Autstralian election - you can still Vote for Millard Fillmore, his running mate Frances Folsom cleveland and two other candidates of y0ur choice.

15 minutes later you can do it again!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 27 May 04 - 08:50 PM

It has been apparent to me since 11th Sept. 2001 that Howard desperately wants a terrorist attack on Australian soil.
It must also be apparent to the terrorists, since they obstinately refuse to comply.

It now becomes apparent that Howard's continued Prime Ministership is our best protection from terrorist attack.

Agree? Disagree?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 28 May 04 - 12:17 AM

I'm tempted to say he's our best protection against a whole heap of things..... better education, social equality, integrity in government, fairness, justice, tolerance, etc etc etc.... Terrorist attacks come a long way down the list since he seems to be doing a good enough job of terrorising me already. And his mate Costello, (good name for half of the comedy duo) ain't exactly doing anything for my peace of mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 04 - 01:02 AM

"It has been apparent to me since 11th Sept. 2001 that Howard desperately wants a terrorist attack on Australian soil."

Bali wasn;t good enough? We had that at a certain Aussie Hotel years ago - just at the time that ASIO was trying to get upgraded funding - a garbageman was killed when the truck crushed the bomb. Some of us Aussies are suspicious bastards and would strongly question a second such 'opportune terrorist incident'.


"And his mate Costello, (good name for half of the comedy duo)"
We had the 'Abbot and Costello' Law Suit a while ago... :-)



I think it's time again to crank out my song What A Friend We Have In Johnny - might be time for 'Part III'...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 04 - 01:11 AM

Sorry, I forgot about Aussie Politics :-)

from The Foolestroupe Songbook

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 10:20 AM

I see Mr. Bush has weighed in with a negative opinion concerning Labor's intention to bring Oz troops home from Iraq.

I wonder if he gave any thought to the possibility that Australians might take offense at him interfering in their election.

I wonder if they will take offense.

I certainly do.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:16 AM

Seems some hoarey old Aussie pollies have done just that... as they did when the US Ambassador mouthed off the same way too a while ago.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:18 AM

The Honest Aussie Politican.
© Robin Hayes 2004
(work still in progress)


Of all the promises e'er I've made,
At least I kept my core promises.
Of all the tax cuts that e'er I made,
My rich mates all were the best paid.
Clever things I said, with all my wit
The newspapers, they never printed it.
Of all the wars that we've been to,
The USA it is our friend so true.


:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 11:26 AM

The situation in Iraq is likely dominate political debate this week, with Parliament resuming tomorrow for its final session before the winter break.

If Prime Minister John Howard decides to call an August election, that session would be this Parliament's last.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 05:51 AM

Honest John has to see the poll reaction to his $1200 for families before he decides.

Seems to ne that Labor should be trumpeting "Take his bribe, then vote against him!"

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 08:12 AM

All I can say is that I just can't wait to get rid of that grey, dreary little man and his oily, smirking sidekick. Could I put in a polite, unpressing word for the Greens here? If you share a justifiable disgust with the major parties you may find that the Greens have a far more democratic structure than them, and a vision of Australia a lot more attractive in every way, from an independent, compassionate foreign policy to a real concern with curing the frightful damage inflicted on the continent over the last 200 years. Don't forget you can pass the full value of your vote on to Labour, just to make sure Dodgy Johnny doesn't get in again!

Just re-read that... beleive it or not I'm not actually a signed up member at all!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 08:45 AM

me either, ooh-aah, but I've been helping on Andrew Wilkie's campaign (standing against the Little Tyrant himself!)

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,freda in Dungog
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 08:47 AM

I'm still hoping for 7th august - if thats the date, we will hear in a week's time, because they have to give 6 weeks notice. I just want it all to be over, and the govt changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: jack halyard
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 05:35 PM

Howard HAS got a problem. or at least one of many- He has to put off the election long enough to allow Latham enough time to shoot himself in the foot, but he has to do it before Christmas, because that's when Latham promised to bring the troops home, but if he loses, It can't be earlier than Christmas eve, because he needs to make sure that Latham cannot bring the troops home before Christmas.
With Bush's pile of lies about the reasons for the Iraq invasion becoming taller, and Howard's own nose being seen to be both longer and browner every day, he has to get the election done very soon.

Latham's responses, on the other hand, don't seem to carry the oomph I would have expected of him.

I think voting green is a very good idea! It's a serious pity we don't yet have the means to break the two-party political tangle.The old Vietnam slogan still rings true "When offered two alternatives, take the third."

and YES folks, I'd love to see our pollies living on a childcare worker's wage and with an average worker's superannuation that they cannot claim till 65 AND an absolute prohibition on going into business in areas related to their ministerial portfolios for five years.
In fact I'd like to see all members of the major political parties do some non business type work or be required to stand in the queue at Centrelink over about a year.

Sometimes the bastards just make my blood boil. I'm glad I've now got Mudcat and an intelligent community willing to listen and talk about this stuff. Your very good health,folks!

                         Jack Halyard

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 12:21 AM

My wife and I have just received twelve hundred dollars from the federal government because we have two children.

We don't know what it's for. We don't know why we're entitled to it.

Apparently there are some two million families just like us. Imagine how much that is costing the (alleged) common wealth.
No don't imagine, it's $3,600 million if every family only had one child.

I don't know, am I extremely intelligent or extremely dim-witted? Are there really people who will vote for a govt. that behaves like this?
This does not say to me "Here is a government with a firm grip," it says "Here is a government which has lost control completely."

Here is a government throwing up its hands and saying "We don't know what else to do. Take this money and remmember us on election day."

I will do that.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: jack halyard
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 04:49 PM

Whenever the election is, I hope Little Johnny H will be remembered as the man who origninated the idea of "Non-core promises" to excuse his failures to carry out his election obligations. How much of the next election will be non-core material- and how will we know?
There's no reasons left to trust this man's word.

                              Jack Halyard

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 07:36 PM

I've already started using "Non-core promises" in songs JH... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 01:12 AM

Australian Broadcasting Corporation
www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1137026.htm
Broadcast: 21/06/2004

Election fever in 2004
...As the politicians in Canberra settle in for the last week of Parliament before the long winter break, many of those holding marginal seats might be wondering if this is their last hurrah.

Election speculation is rampant, with a growing view that August 7 is firming as the preferred date....

tension mounts!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 01:44 AM

..and if it is to be the 7th, it may be announced on the 4th or 5th of July. This is because the govt has to announce it at least 33 days prior to the election date.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 12:06 AM

well, they've got something nasty on Mark Latham - maybe it will be an Aug 7th election after all!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 01:33 AM

They THINK they have something nasty... but they couldn't even get the 'pokie bonus' porkbarrel bribe right - they forgot to pay the defence forces... (places fingertips on thumb tip, hand on forehead, and makes waving motions back and forth...) and now there is a fuss that people are currently in jail for not paying back benefits wrongly paid by Centerlink, and we now have a new 'precedent' that they shouldn't have had to pay back those debts...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,curious
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 05:18 PM

This thread has been fascinating to read; I live in the USA, and like most of us here, I suspect, I'm not well versed in the Australian government. Just a couple quick questions; (1) Who can call an election, and (2) how often can they be called?

Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 08:01 PM

curious...

A House of Representatives election can held more or less at any time. At the request of the Prime Minister, the Governor-General issues the writs for a general election setting down the day when polling must be conducted. Under the Commonwealth Electoral Act, this must be a Saturday and be between 33 and 58 days from the issue of the writ.

The complication is the Senate election. The Constitution fixes the terms of Senators at six years, and an election for the Senate cannot be held until one year before the expiry of Senate terms. The current half-Senate facing election expires on 30 June 2005. Therefore a Senate election cannot be held before 1 July 2004.

An old High Court ruling defines an election as covering the whole period from issue of writ to polling day. Therefore, the writ for a half Senate election cannot be issued before July 1, and with a minimum campaign period, the first possible date for an election this year is 7 August.

If the government wanted to call an election for August 7, the writ would probably be issued on Monday 5 July. The complication is that while the Governor-General issues the writ for the House of Representatives and the two Territory Senate elections, the writ for the six state half-Senate elections are issued by the state Governors. With the paperwork transfer to the states, this usually means the election is announced a day or two before the issue of the writs.

The last possible date for a Federal election is 16 April 2005. Three year terms are timed from the first sitting of a Parliament, not the date of the last election. The current Parliament first sat in February 2002, though the election
was held in November 2001. It seems highly unlikely that the government would hold off until 2005 before holding the current election.

Note that while a Senate election may be held this year, the Senators from the states will not take their seats until 1 July 2005. The four Territory Senators would take their seats at once, but the other 72 Senators would remain in place until 30 June next year, whatever the result of the Senate election.

are you as confised as I am after reading this? it comes from this site, which has a whole lot more info about the Australian electoral system:
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2004/guide/questions.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,curious
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 11:23 AM

freda: Thanks (I think!) I'm still not sure I understand it, but at least I have an idea of it, and thanks to you, a site to go to for more info.

I appreciate it!!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 11:27 AM

basically, its up to our prime minister to work out a time which he thinks is most advantagous to his party's chance of re-election, within 3 - 4 years, I think.

this means tension builds up after about 3 years, the papers start guessing & speculating, all the pollies get nervous and everyone else gets fed up!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 10:31 PM

The payment I refered to earlier ($600 per child), as blatant and absurd as it was then, is now even more so.

Apparently some families have been paid twice (not us), and are being allowed to keep the money because the legislation by which the payment was instigated makes no provision for the retrieval of overpayments.

In other words, it would be illegal for the govt. to ask for it back, or even accept it if it was offered.

This is all farcical enough as far as a corrupt means of buying votes is concerned, but what I want to know is what they intend to do about the rest of us who did not receive the overpayment.

Now it would seem that we have been underpaid (relatively speaking), through no fault of our own, and will need, I suggest, to be bought off if they want us to vote for them.

But then, that would constitute a special payment to selected families - I don't know if that would be seen as being entirely ethical.
("Ethical? What's ether got to do with it?")

Looking forward to the next instalment...

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 12:31 AM

As a long term unemployed who has been refused useful training (cause it would cost too much) and who had the 'Earnings Bank' taken away by Howard (and lost a lot of cash because of it when I was able to get work) and wondorously restored before the election - I want my 'okie bonus'too!

Single people without kids are now being discriminated against!


'Earnings Bank' was a scheme that recognised that infrequent part time work may throw you over the fortnightly limit of earings which means that they payment is cut, but you will not be over the yearly limit. You built up a 'bank of credits' when receiving no income from work, against which you could offset occassional part time income before losing benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 08:11 AM

Looks like we're past one hurdle...

Although the election doesn't HAVE to be called till nearly April, it's rumoured that it will be before the US election. If Bush gets beaten, Johnny's US advisors are scared that he will go down the gurgler too.

But first they want more time to beat up on Latham in a US style dirty politics smear campaign... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: bengi
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 12:47 AM

Who better to fight for you than Latham?

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 10:57 AM

I feel sorry for you Australians having to listen to such crap and having to vote for the biggest bulldust artist and then they and their bulldust talking friends will go to Canbarra.

I'm here on holiday so as I say I feel sorry for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 11:03 AM

Thanks for your commiserations, Tom H. John Howard is the most dangerous, racist, deceptive, arrogant, dominating and undemocratic Prime Minister we have ever had, and the papers don't touch him. Lies, damn lies, and the liers who make them...........

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 10:35 PM

Well, Tom, it's no diferent in the USA...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:44 AM

...speaking of which, I am expecting that John Howard's next move will be to present himself as "The Peace Prime Minister", or a variation on that theme.

Is it a saleable product?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:43 PM

The PISS Prime Minster - yeah, could work....

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:24 PM

strong hint from a gooid source that the election will be announced tomorrow - a good time to be out of the country to avoid all the pre election crap - i'll be going on sun, back in 3 weeks!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:43 AM

While bringing in a bill to forbid homosexual marriage, at the same time Johnny is currently trying to force thru an "Anti-Terrorism Bill" in which associating with a suspected terrorist does recognise the act of homosexual marriage...

Silly Season is nearly on is it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: JennyO
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:01 AM

The spin doctoring continues, with more pre-election sweeteners - another boost for Medicare, and the announcement that it is unlikely that an election will be called while the Olympics are on because Australians are enjoying watching them and he doesn't want to interfere - oh John, you are soooooooo magnanimous and thoughtful - NOT.

Howard accused of bulk-buying close seats

Meanwhile a poll shows Labor leading at the moment, and the Greens scoring well with 11% of the predicted vote.

Olympics election all but smothered

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:59 PM

Since the polls show Labour ahead at the moment, things will be put off for while, no doubt. It could be that Johnny has put it off too long - cause if enough things keep surfacing like today's guy who was gagged by Cabinet from appearing at the "Children Overboard" Enquiry said in a letter to the paper, the Govt had been told by him 3 times a few days before the election that there was no evidence for those claims.

Johnny could go down in history as a lair, and a silly one at that, who put off the election past the point where he could have won it...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 12:49 AM

"Johnny could go down in history as a lair..."

No "could" about it Robin, he will; has already.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 05:41 AM

Just after the Olympics will be a good time to announce it - all the reflected glory from the returning heroes.

Almost like having a good war.

Earliest realistic date now is 25 September.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 05:43 PM

Truth Overboard!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 06:47 AM

Health Overboard!

Well, Mark Latham waited for a Public Hospital bed... might be ill for weeks or even months - Looks like Johnny has missed the Election Boat again...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 11:56 PM

She's On!

October 9th

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 12:55 AM

Looks like Johnny is going to fight the election on "Trust" (isn't that what George is doing?), while Labour is going to fight it on "Honesty", and the other smaller parties on "Accountability".

Still scratching my head, does that mean it's ok to trust someone who is dishonest? And if you are trusted, that you don't have to be accountable?

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 01:18 AM

Just couldn't resist this.

Johnny must think he is going to win, cause he has now a secret Weapon to Win Elections... his mate George did it and it worked!




PM pays his son to dish up spam
By Mike Seccombe
August 27, 2004

A Sydney-based software company, one of whose directors is the Prime Minister's son, has been "spamming" voters with Liberal Party election material.

Tim Howard's company, Net Harbour, is taking advantage of a loophole in the Government's anti-spam laws to open a new front in the election propaganda war, via unsolicited email.

Last night the NSW director of the party, Scott Morrison, confirmed it had entered into a "a contractual arrangement with Net Harbour", involving a curious round-robin of payments.

"Because it's a contractual arrangement involving the PM's son," Mr Morrison said, "... and involves the Bennelong campaign, Mr Howard took the decision to personally fund the service, to provide the funds to enable us to do that, out of his own pocket.

"He made the funds available to the division once we entered into the agreement, to make sure the division wasn't out of pocket."

Mr Morrison refused to say how much Mr Howard was paying the party to
pay his son's company.

Laws passed last year made it illegal for commercial operators to send unsolicited emails, but allowed an exemption for charities and political parties.

A spokesman for Net Harbour said yesterday that it was the only consultancy in Australia employing the American-style campaigning technique, and was working for the Liberal Party.

On its site, Net Harbour promises to deliver "complete constituent contact" via its "ePolitics" operation. It describes itself as working "in partnership with conservative political parties at electoral, state and national level to deliver online campaigns".

The deal between the state Liberal branch and the Howards, senior and junior, was news to the federal organisation.

The party's federal director, Brian Loughnane, said yesterday afternoon that he was not aware of a contractual arrangement

between the party and Tim Howard's company. "I'll have to investigate," he said. "But it could be somebody's just doing it as a favour ... In the normal course of events I'd expect to know. I sign the cheques. I haven't signed any cheques for Net Harbour."

One recipient of the e-bulletins - which appear under the letterhead and picture of the Prime Minister - said she had been spammed twice in the past month.Alana Hay, of Sylvania, said she was angry about it.

Although the emails purported to come from "John Howard, MP, Member for Bennelong", she neither lived nor worked within the electorate.

Ms Hay said she had no political connections and had certainly not sought Liberal Party campaign information. "What I want to know is, how did they get my address?"

No answers to her questions were forthcoming yesterday.

Net Harbour's spokesman promised the company's managing director, Brad Mancken, would call back, but he did not.

Mr Morrison refused to say how Net Harbour got hold of personal email details, or how the party was able to send spam referring to the recipient by her first name.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 05:51 AM

John has had to call the election so he can pull the pin on next week's sitting of the House of Representatives because he didn't want to endure any more Question Times.

He seems to think that Question Time in the Senate doesn't matter so much because he can always claim that the Senate is hostile anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 07:13 AM

Does that mean there will be no Australians at my birthday bash on that date?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 07:40 AM

Put it back a week, and if Johnny gets in, we may all be there... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:09 PM

"It's a matter of trust" - John Howard on the coming election.

I initially thought he was conceding defeat right away, but upon reflection, it seems to me that his backroom boys have correctly identified his untrustworthyness as his weakest point and effectively nullified it as a weapon to be used against him.

There are many Australians who will be bluffed.

BTW His backroom boys have obviously not read Dan Brown's "Deception Point", in which a desperate and unscrupulous presidential candidate uses the campaign slogan "It's all about trust".

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:56 PM

A US expert has said that Australia MAY be targeted for terrorism cause it is thought that Johnny will lose like Spain since Labour wants to take the troops out.

The Aussie psyche doesn't necessarily work like that - any such attack is likely to tip the swinging voters towards Johnny - "Don't piss us off" - so would not be surprised if ASIO or the CIA 'fake' an attack!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:12 AM

Well, someone made a comment about Johnny being "an untruthful rodent" in more colourful terms than that, and today, a lone protester, who later walked away free, walked thru the crowd (and the security) at a public campaigning stop, and gave Johnny a plastic bag of cheese...

In one of the upmarket Liberal 'safe seats', a multi-millionaire merchant banker (and apparently a fairly close friend of Johnny) managed to get himself preselected over the siting Liberal candidate,
who has now decided to run as an independent. Johnny is now trying to pretend that this will split the Liberal vote and 'give the seat to labour'. He must be 'taking the tablets' from those 2nd rate US political advisers too well, as we have preferential voting here in Australia, and the new independent candidate has said that his preferences will go to the Liberal Party.

If the independent comes last (and supposedly the reason that he was not endorsed is that he was not supposed to be wanted by the electorate!) - his preferences add to the Liberal vote - only danger is if he pulls sufficient so that the other independents or minor parties come behind him, they might swing sufficient preferences to Labour as the candidates with the least votes gets their preferences distributed first until there is a majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 09:19 PM

Good luck to you all, and if sanity wins in Oz I hope there's room for the rest of us to join you there. I'm sure there's some coffeehouse on Glebe Street that really needs a full-time banjo player.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 09:51 PM

Only if I can accompany you on one of my various instruments... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 07:14 PM

Ah! 'panic mode' - Johhny & Co are now saying that they think the Military Tribunals are unfair! After months of warnings, they now will insist on a few 'cosmetic changes' to the "Star Chamber" (as British Subjects we do have a history!) JUST before the election!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 05:23 AM

Update: Ah! The Ausie Legal Society is about to issue a report very damning of the Aussie Govt's actions or rather lack of actions - hopefully, this will go away till after the election now (thinks Johnny!).

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 10:54 AM

And has John Dengate come up with a new song to clarify the issues at stake, or not at stake?

At least your election campaign will be for a shorter period than here in the States, and you'll even know the results almost a month before we know ours, if we ever do!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 11:25 AM

This is the latest one I can find, Charlie:

Johnny Howard's March
A song by John Dengate©John Dengate 2003
Tune: Paddy Mc Ginty's Goat

Little Johnnie Howard said, 'Diplomacy's a chore,
You get results much quicker from a swift and bloody war.'
He said, 'It's very simple; it's easily understood:
Sadam Hussein is evil and America is good.'

Now all the world is rising to 'Advance Australia Fair,'
We can crawl to George bush as good as Tony Blair.
We're the coaltion that will set a people free:
My buddy in the White House and Tony Blair…and me!

They bombed a few civilians that they didn't mean to kill
For the Yanks blast everything that moves and most of what stands still;
That's the way they operate; the people they have maimed
Will thank us for democracy and know we can't be blamed.

The Yanks have taken Bhagdad and tyranny has gone,
All because of George Bush and Blair and little John;
I'll win the next election, I haven't lost my touch…
I've got some blood upon my hands…but, really, not too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:09 PM

Australian Embassy in Jakarta bombed

Latham has cancelled all Labour political advertising and campaign appearances for two days as a mark of respect and political solidarity. He has also publicly stated total; support for anything the Govt does to deal with the situation. I have said before that anyone who thinks that such an attack is the way to divide and conquer Australia in the middle of a political campaign does not understand Australia.

Americans should note how a real democracy works - politicians can lie to the electorate and fight each other tooth and nail under normal conditions, but when this sort of event happens, the first thing after expressing sympathy Johnny did was to say he was sending the Govt plane to Indonesia that night with the Foreign Minister, and that he had extended an invitation to the Opposition Foreign Affairs Spokesman (referred to as The Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) as well and sending experienced Police and medical aid on the same plane.

When such events occur, the public face is solidarity.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: DaveA
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:57 PM

OK Robin, nice thoughts but.......

Little Johnnie is a past master at manipulating the fears of the "ordinary bloke" into an election victory (shades of Menzies and the infamous "red under the bed" panic)

As I recall it, you made a (tongue in cheek?) post about something like this back on 30th August. Given his track record of doing absolutely anything to gain & retain power, is anyone prepared to categorically state that this was not sanctioned by some ASIO/CIA members?

It is an indication of how devalued the politics of this Government have become that such a thought is not immediately dismissed as "unthinkable"!

I have much sympathy for the innocent victims who ever the perpetrators were, but even more sympathy for the Australian people who may be conned into giving little Johnnie another term.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 06:48 AM

Wellllllll..... He does have access to all the 'Spy Info' and he did set the date.... but then I'm a cynical bastard...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:03 PM

I just hope people point out good and loud that Howard's bullshit about our support for the US in Iraq not having made us a target for terrorists is now definitively proved to be just that - bullshit. How sad that innocent Indonesians had to die to prove it - as usual the terrorists, like the Americans, are experts at killing the innocent instead of the 'guilty' - not that the Embassy staff are 'guilty' of course. Roll on the election, and let's give this moron the flick!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:56 PM

The first 'freedom fighter activists' who became famous for "terrorist acts" were the Zionist Israelies just after WWII...

But that's got nothing to do with this thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: DaveA
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 04:27 AM

Actually Robin, this has some relevance to the whole general discussion. There is a tendency to excuse immoral acts by people whose cause we support but condemn similar actions by those we are opposed to. Which is why, I guess, that they say "History is written by the victors"!

But, to get back on track, it would be nice to see an "external event" that worked in favour of Labour for a change. Now, there is a good phrase... I'm all for a change!!!!

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 08:56 AM

Well, the battle is now back on - restarted by "The Great Debate"!!! so styled by channel 9 on it's locally produced '60 mins' prog - (which is nearer 40 mins with the ads!)

Well, according to the Rules wanted by Howard, it was more of a 'moderated press interview' than a debate, with no public, only press, and 'the worm' - an instaneous readout of the feelings of the audience displayed on screen, not allowed to be superimposed live over the speeches.

Well, according the the 'audience of swinging voters' (no, no, this is not the 60's 'swingers' - although some of them probably were in their 60's!) declared that Latham was the winner. So did the Labour party spokespersons, but funnily enough the Liberal party spokespersons seemed to think that Howard was.

But I can tell you who the losers were - more people watched live 'Australia Idol' than 'The Great Debate' !!!!!!! :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 09:35 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 06:43 AM

Well, half way thru the campaign (God! it seems longer!) and not much exciting. A protestor dressed as a sheep got thru to Johnny the other day and hugged him.

The most assinine political comment I heard so far was that Latham would be a better Leader than Howard, but he is too young at the momnet, and so he should have the experience of losing an election before he is allowed to win one lead the country! What cretin came up with that one? How about just having the best person for the job right now?

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Martian Gibbon
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 06:53 AM

August 7 thats when I first - no maybe not

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: rich-joy
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 08:46 PM

in case there are any Australian "swinging voters" reading this thread ...

:-)

" .. In "The Nuremberg Diary", Gilbert recorded a conversation he had with Hermann Goering on Easter break, 1946:

Goering: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?

Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Goering: Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. ..."

" ... G.M. Gilbert was an American intelligence officer. He was also the prison psychologist during the Nuremberg trials after World War II, with unlimited free access to the top Nazi officers throughout the trial. He recorded his conversations in "The Nuremberg Diary," still in print today. You can get it at http://amazon.com and http://bn.com . Here's a review:
http://www.history-europe.com/Nuremberg_Diary_0306806614.html ..."

(BTW, I found this on Bob Webster's "Junkmail" e-zine)

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 03:11 AM

thanks Rich Joy, I'd heard that quote before but didnt know where it could be found!

yes, history repeats itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 03:18 AM

A guy dressed in a rat suit got thry to Johhny the other day. Looks like the 'Furry Vote' may be big this year. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:58 AM

Whoopee! The Chaser is doing the ABC TV Election coverage again this year! One of the funniest occassional shows that turns up on the ABC.

A Sample of what they are doing so far... and what they can produce...


Voters terrified by prospect of month-long interest rate scare campaign
   
John Howard has succeeded in terrifying voters with a scare campaign about interest rates rising under Labor. The Australian electorate is now very scared that Howard will keep going on about interest rates until election day.

~~~~~~`
Ah, well it's funny enough to some of us Australians...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:13 AM

Does Her Majesty the Queen know that you lot are trying to hold some sort of election?

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:15 AM

Oh... I've just been told that Australia is now an independent country..... I'll get my coat...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:18 AM

Well, this should be fun for the Sydney Mudcatters... :-) Photos please! You may even end on the eventual DVD!
~~~~~~~~~~~
Call for volunteers

The Chaser team is looking for volunteers to wander around in the background of its "National Tallyroom" (located in Artarmon, Sydney!) for fake vote counting action in its upcoming election special, The Chaser Decides.

This is a more-than-once-every-series chance to be a part of the making of a Chaser TV show – it's much more interactive than just sitting in the audience and having people entertain you! More repetitive too. You'll see behind the scenes of a TV shoot – and what you'll see is yourself!

It's a great opportunity to see the Chaser team fluff their lines take after take. Come along and smash any illusions you have about the 'magic' of television…

Dress: office wear – you need to look like an electoral worker

Guys – at minimum, open necked button-up shirt and dark coloured slacks, no jeans … some in suits would be good

Girls – smart casual for business


When: two 4 hour sessions per studio record


Session 1A – Wed, 22 Sept 9:30 – 13:00
Session 1B – Wed, 22 Sept 13:30 - 18:00
Session 2A – Wed, 29 Sept 9:30 – 13:00
Session 2B – Wed, 29 Sept 13:30 - 18:00
Session 3A – Wed, 6 Oct 9:30 – 13:00
Session 3B – Wed, 6 Oct 13:30 - 18:00
Session 4A – Wed, 13 Oct 9:30 – 13:00
Session 4B – Wed, 13 Oct 13:30 - 18:00


Where: 4 Lanceley Place, Artarmon


To register: email [e-mail] to register your interest. Please include:

*name
*contact phone number
*session(s) you can do

Any queries: call The Chaser Decides on 8333-3332

And remember! We can't promise it'll be fun! But we CAN promise you'll be in the background of The Chaser Decides!

http://www.chaser.com.au/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8&PN=1
(you need to register and login with cookie to access their forums - or you probably won't be able to read them)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 04:47 AM

Well, Pauline Hanson has decided to run for the Senate as an independent. She was the Founder of the One Nation Party, and caused some fracas a while back, especially when the press decided that they had to do all they could to prevent her getting popular...

Little Johnny came up with a copy of the US 'pre-emptive strike against Terrorists' policy which was obviously designed to attract the Right Wing Loonies and ex-Pauline voters a while ago, but it sort of sank without trace. He revived it again, and various nearby nations took some exception to having Australia say it would invade their Sovereign Territory with out their permission...

Mr Beasley, ex Labour Leader and now Shadow Foreign Minister - funnily enough highly praised by Howard and his buddies at the time he was brought back from the wilderness by Latham - I suppose they thought it might be seen as some sort of put down for Latham - god knows, I don't! - has publicly asked Johnny when he plans to launch the attacks, as the locations of the terrorist cells and their plans to attack are now known? Well, it seems that Johnny didn't really say that, and if he did, he didn't mean it, and well, maybe, but that that way, um, er...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 05:15 AM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 05:17 AM

Nuthin betr to do wit your time jOhn? Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 06:28 AM

super ted, you will no doubt be relieved and gratified to know that as part of the process leading to the election, the Governor-General, as representative of Her Majesty the Queen, had to dissolve Parliament.

The republic is still a work in progress.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:14 AM

The Solution will be bottled and flogged off to The Loyal Monarchists!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 10:32 AM

Well the first 'Chaser Decides' was on tonight. I'm glad it was only half an hour, as non-stop laughter for longer than get gets boring... er, well... no, not quite what I meant...

They started off in the Tally Room, with an analysis of the state of voting, only to discover that the voteing hadn't started yet, so they decided to come back later...

One of the cleverest bits they did was an analysis pf certain 'electorates' including Iraq & Guantanamo Bay...

They managed to put up a question to Johnny whether, in spite of them being denied human right, would the 2 Aussies in Guantanamo Bay be denied their democratic rights by not being allowed to vote? Then they showed the newspaper headline a few days later that showed that the Electoral Office had sent postal votes to the two aussies there.... :-)
Mike Moore's sense of humour is appreciated (and even understood!) in Australia...

But the best bit was with regard to last election - 2001 - when the Chaser did their first election coverage. One guy went out the first week with a foam baseball bat and asked various politicians would they like the chance to beat up on their electorate first hand? One grabbed the bat and hit the announcer. As it happened, it was a largely unknown to the public at that stage Mark Latham, who was heard muttering as he walked away "Bloody Idiot"!!!!!

One thing about Aussie Politicians - they learn fast.... by the next week, the word was out and all politicians were much more circumspect around cameras, but fortunately, many of the minders were still a bit thick, which provided much material for future shows, including the line "You mean if I try to get in to see the Prime Minister on Election Day, I'll be arrested?" "Yes!"!!!!!!

Well, Mark spotted them coming this year, and knowing them well by sight, he adopted the Aussie Larakin approach, and played along. He was challenged for $50 to mention his catch phrase "Ease the Squeeze" exactly 7 times during "The Great Debate" - which he did!

The show does have a website.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 09:01 PM

Mark Latham was recently ill with pancreatitus. Some of the alleged causes include good living and alcohol.

Johnny is well known for his 'Power Walking' fitness - many journalists are unable to keep up with his pace.

It had to happen. Some journalists challenged Latham to a test of his fitness. He agreed, and was shown on National TV News shows jogging well ahead of them, looking very fit and untroubled.

The 'Doctors Wives' Voting pattern - more than just that segment - is becoming very powerful. Coalition Voters annoyed with the constant alleged misleading over 'Children Overboard' and Iraq and other matters are going to lodge a protest vote, mostly likely with The Greens to the tune of 20% - many of these subsequent preferences will likely flow to Labour. Quite a few seats have a 'swing factor' of only a percent or two for Johnny & his party to lose them, but it is unlikely that many seats will end up as Green seats, most likely Labour.


Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST, John O'Lennaine
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 10:40 PM

Just by the way...

Does the Australian electorate have any constitutional right to expect its elected leaders to do what it wants them to do?

Or do we elect representatives in the expectation that they will do what's best for us, be it what we want, or what we obviously don't want?

I ask because the system of electing national governments by means of voting for local members (or parties at the local level) seems to infer a little of both or not much of either.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 04:00 AM

Number 2 mate!

In more than ONE sense of THAT phrase....

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 01:57 PM

The other day Latham caught up with the Rat that cornered Johnny. After a few clever quips, Latahm remarked "I've seen you on TV!".

But nobody seems to know what cause the Rat is representing.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 07:44 PM

JOHN HOWARD has personally brokered a deal with the Family First party that would see the Coalition consult over policy with the Assemblies of God-backed party in exchange for preferences for most lower house candidates across Australia. With the Coalition keen to counter the Labor Party's dominance of the preference flows in a tight election, the Liberals signed off on the deal after a series of conversations between the Prime Minister and Family First chairman Peter Harris.

While the preference flows of the socially conservative minor party may have limited effect in most states, they will be crucial in the three marginal South Australian seats held by the Liberals. It is almost a political mirror image to the sweeping preference deal between Labor and the left-leaning Greens for Senate and 26 lower house seats reached last week. Under the deal with the Coalition, Family First will lead a direct advertising attack against the Greens and its liberal policies in four states from this weekend.

Announcing the deal, Family First representatives said Mr Howard would make some joint family policy announcements with Family First within a week. "I think that it's a watershed moment for Australian history that a new party can have influence even prior to the federal election going ahead," Family First SA Senate candidate Andrea Mason said.

Family First are in a strong position to pick up a Senate seat in South Australia reaching preference deals with every party except the Greens. Formed in South Australia just three years ago, Family First has one elected state MP and six of its seven board executive members are affiliated with the Assemblies of God church. At the 2002 South Australian elections the party polled 2.6per cent of the vote in the lower house - enough to secure two of the three South Australian Liberal marginals - and 4 per cent in the upper house.

Mr Harris said agreement between the Greens and Labor to swap preferences in the Senate and 26 lower house seat had ruled the Opposition out of any deal with Family First because of "the inability of candidates to exercise a conscience vote on a reasonable range of moral and ethical issues". Family First preferences exclude all but "three or four" Coalition candidates in the 109 seats where Family First is standing.

These candidates, who Mr Harris declined to name, "don't necessarily reflect the family agenda we have". He earlier called on these candidates to sign a three year voting agreement to support "certain Family First policy platforms and those issues remain to be resolved". But Mr Harris later retracted his statement, asking only for a commitment after moderate Liberals expressed concern over the move.

The party's policies oppose abortion, euthanasia, same-sex marriages and stem-cell research and promote sexual abstinence before marriage. Others support income tax splitting, faster immigration processing for detained asylum-seekers, and federal control of the Murray River. In exchange for Family First preferences, Mr Harris said the Prime Minister was "incredibly receptive" to introducing family impact statements for all cabinet submissions - a proposition Mr Howard has canvassed before. Internal Family First party polling has shown the primary vote has reached 4 per cent in Queensland and South Australia, a party spokesman said.

The party continues to downplay its Assemblies of God links, with Family First yesterday advising its 26 NSW candidates not to disclose religious affiliations.
(Howard now has God on his side;By Michelle Wiese Bockmann;September 25, 2004;The Australian)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:41 PM

It's just as well we don't have the bomb - officially. Australia was on the path to develop one after WWII, but for some reason backed away.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 05:28 PM

I just found this John Dengate song in a Google search. Highly relevant at present with Little Johnny building up the terrorism paranoia to try and push us into voting for him. Although this mega-spending spree he is promising us for education and health and whatever in a bid to buy our votes has kind of taken over from his big "Iraq - the war we had to have" message.

Terrorist Song   I'll have to put this in the Australian Elections thread as well, because Little Johnny has built 90% of his electioneering platform on terrorism paranoia - that is until he started this spending spree of trying at the last minute to buy our votes.

Copyright 2003 John Dengate

Tune: Knickerbocker Line

As I was walking down the road, he suddenly appeared:
A bloody turbaned Moslem with a big Bin Laden beard;
I asked, "Are you a terrorist, is that your bloody lurk?"
He said, "No, I'm a carpenter, I'm on my way to work."

Chorus

I watched him, tracked him, rang up A.S.I.O.
I dobbed him into Alan Jones on talk-back radio.
I may not be a beauty and I don't have any sense
But, by God, I know my duty to the national defence!

They're going to bomb the Harbour Bridge then quiet as a mouse,
They'll sneak up with explosives and blow up the Opera House.
They're going to blow up Murphy's pub. I've heard about the plot?
I hope they get the pokies 'cause I'm losing quite a lot.

There's terrorism everywhere; it makes a man afraid?
I¹m buying a machine gun and I'll build a barricade.
You'll have to know the password if you come and visit me.
Shoot first, ask questions later mate, that's my philosophy.

My Aunty May's eccentric; "You¹re paranoid," she said.
She doesn't believe the terrorists are underneath the bed.
She reckons it's "hysteria"? I don¹t know what she meant?
She said she¹s far more frightened of the Federal Government.

John Howard will protect us, he is very strong and brave;
He's passing legislation that will make you all behave!
You won't be facing Mecca on that silly bloody mat
You'll all be Church of England, Abdul, cogitate on that!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 10:49 PM

thanks Helen. Another one of John's that's going through my head right now is I Can't Abide (the government front bench....) to the tune of Abide with Me...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 10:57 PM

Academics call for honesty in government; ABC News; September 26, 2004 - 10:05AM

Academics from almost every public university in Australia have urged Prime Minister John Howard and Opposition Leader Mark Latham to restore the nation's reputation for honest government. More than 380 senior academics, including 160 professors, have released a joint statement demanding more honesty and independence from whoever wins the October 9 election. They said Australia's reputation had been tarnished by a string of events, including the children overboard affairs, Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and the reasons for going to war there.

"This federal election provides an opportunity for both Mr Howard and Mr Latham to pledge that they will insist on truth and genuine accountability in government," they said. The academics include Professor Tony McMichael from the Australian National University, Professor Ann Daniel from the University of NSW, Professor Bob White from the University of Western Australia, Professor Robyn McDermott from the University of South Australia, Professor Verity Burgmann from the University of Melbourne, Professor Roger Fay from the University of Tasmania and Professor Clive Bean from the Queensland University of Technology. The academics cover a range of disciplines, from economics to pharmacy.

They said it was time for independence, impartiality and decency in the Australian public service. "In the last weeks of the election campaign the leaders of the major parties are asked to address these issues," they said. "They should not be allowed to avoid them."
The statement follows a letter from 43 senior former diplomats and defence officials who earlier this year also called for a return to honesty in government.

© 2004 AAP

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 04 - 10:21 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 11:28 PM

I can't abide (Tune: Abide with me)

I can't abide the government's front bench,
send them away to the Germans or the French
I can't abide Costello's shallow sneer --
won't someone make the bastard disappear?
I can't abide that bloody awful Kemp,
bring back the gallows, the hangman and the hemp
Take Peter Reith and dump him in the tide.
Him I particularly can't abide
Poor little John deserves our sympathy,
born neath the burden of mediocrity
Pat his wee head and send him off to bed,
then hide the key lest he abide with me
I can't abide the government's ministry,
Senator Vanstone's worse than dysentry
Send her away without the least delay --
don't pour the tea lest she abide with me
Sink them the swine, an iceberg would be fine.
Far, far away in distant Hudson Bay
As they go down they'll warble while they drown,
flat and off-key, they'll be despised by me
I can't abide the government's front bench,
send them away to the Germans or the French
Take Peter Reith and dump him in the tide.
Him I particularly can't abide

By John Dengate

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 10:41 AM

Well, The Chaser Decides was back on - and it was just too funny to remember it all.

Latham definitely remembers the guys... :-) So does Johnny...

They did a trick with a bus labelled specially, and the reporter was out chasing Johnny telling him that his Deputy was out for his job and had sent out a bus to run him over on his daily walk... Johnny was smiling idiotically, but the sweating guys in the football jumpers were definitely not amused - they mainly seemed to be concerned with keeping up with Johnny...

Then the boys tried to gatecrash the Labour Party Campaign launch to see just how friendly to the USA the Labour Party was now, with

1) a giant US flag,

2) the bald headed eagle

3) a guy in an Uncle Sam suit

- but none of the minders seemed to have a sense of humour, although they were terribly polite - I am sure the word has come down from the top...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 10:52 PM

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: New Religious Based Australian Political Party Wants
Mandatory Internet Filtering
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:50:07 +1000
From: Bob Bain <######>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,aus.censorship,aus.politics

On 29 Sep 2004 21:43:07 -0700, newbjorn@########(newBjorn) wrote
in message id :

>Ask the xtian freaks why there is evil in the world and they'll tell
>you its because gawd wants us to have free will.
>Then the fruitcakes do everything in their power to stop you from
>using it.

They even gag their own members...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10902379%255E2702,00.html

"The announcement came as the party gagged its 109 candidates from speaking to the media amid growing sensitivity about its ties with the Assemblies of God and the church's socially conservative views."

"Boothby candidate Paul Munn was threatened with disendorsement after he confirmed party members held creationist views, opposed sex before marriage and viewed homosexuality as unnatural. "

=============================================

Freedom of expression isn't on it's agenda....

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 07:32 AM

Pauline Hanson is featuring in a TV show - a dancing competition. The Ad involves a changed "Time Warp" song and Pauline is at the board with a pointer showing the steps "It's just a jump to the Right!"


Sigh!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 11:03 AM

Four days out, and Howard is worried; October 5, 2004; the Age

Latham may be succeeding in his audacious bid to drag older voters away from the PM, writes Shaun Carney. You can often get a sense of how political parties view their own prospects at an election through their advertising in the final week of a campaign. Clearly the Coalition is worried. The premise of an ad that began screening on Sunday, in which it ironically wishes voters "good luck" if they vote for Mark Latham, contains a powerful subtext. It acknowledges implicitly that Latham looks attractive but warns against being seduced by his charms; that way lies economic ruin. It's significant that the ad concedes that people are considering voting for the Labor leader.

Labor's main ad unveiled on Sunday tries to tie together two themes. It asks who to believe on interest rates, John Howard or a range of economists who say Labor is no threat to the economy, and then goes on to portray the Prime Minister as a man who would do or say anything and is "unbelievable". Labor appears to believe it has Howard on the run. It is trying to turn his big negative - the scare on interest rates, which the PM rolled out on day one of the campaign and which continues to be his one powerful message of the past five weeks - into a Labor positive.

How so? Something that Labor field workers and researchers have turned up as the campaign has progressed is a rising unease among some undecided and soft Coalition voters, especially in the older age group, about Howard's handling of the truth. This has encouraged the Labor leadership group and those in charge of the ALP campaign to rethink one of the basic assumptions about voter behaviour under Howard, which is that the Coalition's grip on the vast majority of people aged over 55 is unshakeable.

Certainly, the Government can continue to count on most pensioners and self-funded retirees. But the support levels are by no means monolithic. This is where Latham's announcement of Medicare Gold, the plan to provide free hospital care for all Australians 75 and over, at last Wednesday's formal launch of Labor's campaign could turn out to have played a vital role in the final stage of the pre-election period. It was a counter-intuitive move, an attempt to win favour among a voting group that appeared to have already largely made up its mind, and was not worth trying to win over.

But Labor hopes to double its returns for Medicare Gold. Not only does it expect to prise votes from older Australians with the policy, it believes the middle-aged offspring of those same older voters, worried about their ageing parents' health, will also come across. A Labor campaign worker said yesterday that the feedback from voters since Wednesday had been overwhelmingly positive. "It's important not to get ahead of ourselves, of course, but Medicare Gold has been crucial in getting us where we wanted to be at this stage," the campaign worker said. "Any outer suburban or regional seat that is a marginal has lots of people who are either retired or who have parents who are retired and need some medical attention. That's what we have done at one age level. The other is the schools funding policy, which has appealed to people in their 30s and 40s."

If these voters do change their votes and support Labor on Saturday, it will be a neat twist on recent political history. ...The AgePoll taken last weekend suggested a six percentage point increase in Labor's vote after preferences among over-55s in the space of just a week. Potentially, it's a rich harvest and one that might make all the difference four days from now.

Shaun Carney is an associate editor of The Age.
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 11:10 AM

Tony Abbott's targeting bowels now..

I always knew that guy's a bit strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 08:54 PM

The url to the .pdf file is http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hack/notes/s1208062.htm

The blurb before the link is (off http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hack/notes/s1208062.htm )

    To help you consider your vote this election,
    a group of Christian organisations have put
    together a Check List of Christian values for
    each major party.

    Unsurprisingly, the Christian Democrats and
    the Family First parties rate very well, but
    it looks like the Greens and the Democrats
    are going straight to hell.

(surprise surprise)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:18 PM

I get automatic job alerts on my e-mail but I don't think I'll apply for this one!!


URGENT- MATTER OF NATIONAL IMPORTANCE

    * Leader of Our Great Country
    * National Role
    * Smoke and Mirrors Industry

    Having previously advertised elsewhere, and after receiving only two mediocre applications, our client is now undergoing an urgent nationwide search for the position of Leader of Our Great Country.

    This is a fantastic career opportunity for the right candidate who must show a flair for hand-shaking ie. not too long but not too abrupt and not too soft but not too bone-crunching. Baby kissing experience is a must, as is proof of this ability in the form of written referrals from actual babies.

    Your role will include regular travel at the expense of all Australians. At times you will be required to wear strange, loud, ridiculous looking shirts to important meetings whilst maintaining a smile throughout. You must be well versed in the complexities of the mind of a seven year old, as at times you will be called upon to interact with George Bush. Although not mandatory, the ability to tell the truth and some degree of humanity (any at all) will be highly regarded.

    Your package will include a generous salary at the expense of all Australians, as well as two residences: a house in Sydney and a lodge in Canberra - although living in Canberra is entirely optional.

    Finally, as representative of the country, the ability to get tough with taxi drivers is crucial to the role. Any experience in this area will be advantageous.

    The voting committee of several million will seriously consider all underdogs.

    Send applications to www.mycareer.com.au..........TODAY!

    DO IT FOR YOUR COUNTRY!!

(mycareer.com.au marketing promotion)

Job Summary
        
Sector &
Subsector         
        Smoke and Mirrors / Double talk / Snake Oil Sales and Marketing / Failed Promises Industry
Ref No.         PMJOB01
Salary         More than you earn now
Work Type         Part Time, if you can get away with it
Location         Highest Office in The Land, Canberra, ACT
Date Posted         Wed 06/10/04
Applic'n Close         Must close by midnight October 8
Ad Placed By         Australian People

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 06:04 AM

It's all still in the balance.

If Labor lose, it will be the culmination of a series of misguided policies (or non-policies) going back three years.

1. They should have opposed Australia's participation in the invasion of Afghanistan on the basis that the then government of that country could have been subjected to international pressure and persuasion to hand over Osama. It might not have worked, but has the invasion produced Osama?

2. They should have opposed Australia's participation in the invasion of Iraq on the grounds that Australia should go in if necessary to support the UN, but not the US.

3. They should have made a lot more noise about the Guantanamo Bay detainees' being held without trial as criminals and without the status of POWs. In particular they could have seized on Howard's remarks that the detainees would get a fair trial and then be brought back to Australia to serve their sentences. This whole thing has so many legal and moral flaws it is difficult to know where to begin. The presumption of innocence is a good start.

4. They should have flogged to death the point that Howard says he is running the country, but his decisions are being made on the basis of informaton given by his advisers. Given the number of times he has used "bad information" as an excuse for his failings, it would appear that the country is being run by his advisers, because they decide what information he is going to use to make decisions.

5. In more recent times, they should have been attacking his claims to be a responsible economic manager.   How could he produce a Budget in May that is now being blown out of the water by the election promises he is making?

6. His fiscal record is wide open to criticism, too. In September, only four months after the Budget, we were told that GST collections will be $2.6 billion more than forecast. That's a hell of a variation in a very short time - he must have been poorly advised again.

7. We will have Peter Costello for PM within twelve months if the Liberals are re-elected. Labor have touched this, but they should have flogged it.

How are those for starters? All Labor have done in the election campaign seems to ignore the fact that Oppositions don't win elections, Governemnts lose them. Labor should have been aware that this election campaign started as soon as the last election was over, but they have been so lost in their own navel gazing that all these opportunities have gone begging.

I still hope they win, though - I can't stomach Howard, and I will laugh like a drain if he misses the opportunity to become Australia's second-longest-serving Prime Minister after his hero, Bob Menzies.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 10:14 AM

We have two different election processes.

The Lower House - House of Reps, we got a ballot paper for our local division which has about half a dozen candidates on average. You must number every square - if a candidate gets over 50% of the primary votes, he's it - if not the lowest candidate gets eliminated and their second preferences distributed, etc until someone remaining gets over 50%.

Now in the Senate - each state has several positions, and the system is much more fun. You can vote 'above the line' by placing a 1 in just one box, then your preferences are allocated according to the official party How to Vote cards - or you can vote 'under the line' where you must fill in all the boxes about 60 or so on average...

The following is a small contribution from someone who sent this to a list I run... :-)

~~~~~~~
Strategic voting in the senate.

Do you know the strategic exhaustion trick? Preference the top candidates from parties you don't like last, then the next rank, then the next, meaning your preferences give least support to their first
(and most likely) candidate... Likewise, vote 1,2,3 across the ballot, giving the first candidate in each of your preferred parties a larger slice of your preferences pie.

As a simplified example for Queensland, not necessarily representing my actual voting intentions...

Group J             Group K               Group L
One Nation                               Family Farce

[49] HARRIS, Len   [50] HANSON, Pauline [47] LEWIS, John
[45] NELSON, Ian   [46] SMITH, Judy      [44]SKELLERN-SMITH, Tracy
[43] SAVAGE, James

As an example of the overall process I will use my intended voting pattern... As usual, I will be voting under the line. I usually give HEMP my first preferences, but this year it is so important that I will be voting HUTTON, Drew (GREENS) [1] and probably CHERRY, John Clifford (DEMOCRATS) [2] (despite my unease with the Dems and Family Farce getting along so well in the playground). Back to the "lesser" Greens and Dems for 3, 4 & 5...

This election is so important, in terms of avoiding another 3 years of smug misrule by the Johnny Howard and The New Right (Watch for their next album on Jackboot Records :-), that I will probably do something I almost never do, and give Labour my next 3 preferences and in "correct" rather than reverse order...

The nice people from the Socialist Alliance and HEMP will get preferences ahead of the Slowalition and their stooges. A straggle of loony fringe groups such as the Channel 7/"Oh, think of the children" nutter, Hetty Johnston (too easily exploited by the likes of Family Farce IMHO). Then down to Dear Pauline in the wooden-spoon position...

(BTW, which group are crazier, CEC or The Great Australians? So hard to tell without a few days of careful observation of their behaviour in the rubber room...)

Now, why not just vote HEMP and Socialist Alliance as per usual? The
reason is that preferences are not passed on as whole votes, but discounted (if a candidate gets up) and thus the higher the reference assigned, the larger the fractional vote that gets passed from hand to hand. Likewise the lower the preference, the small the fractional vote that gets passed on.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 10:24 AM

LoL Helen, your post made me laugh. and foolestroupe you have kept me laughing with your posts. I completely agree with your analysis of events Hrothgar. The Labor campaign has not been as wimpish as it was under Beasley, but it still hasnt been enough. they have no spine and are too slick. i have been more or less emotionally imobilised in the last couple of days, wondering what the outcome will be. As well, i'm waiting for my first grandchild, 10 days overdue. I have been working on Andrew Wilkie's campaign, which has kept John Howard campaigning in his electorate, and therefore less in the marginal seats.

I wish I could wake up and find the government has been voted out. however the clock is ticking, one more day of pacing the floor before we see some outcome. I havent given up yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 11:18 AM

The channel 10 phone in poll this evening showed Howard/Latham 60/40%.

I would have guessed Howard 55% to win - he will get in again on the Marginals like last time, I think - so that's my prediction.

If something happens and he doesn't get a clear majority, then life will be interesting - I predict he will cling on with a minority Govt and support from the 'you know who' groups...

Traditionally, in Australia, Govts lose, oppositions rarely win, and the Eden/Monaro seat has been the 'bell-whether' seat for the last dozen or so elections. Also if a change of Govt happens it usually happens with a 'landslide' swing, and that seems unlikely this time.

~~~

The Election chaser tonight again had me rolling on the floor... and the Liberals/Nationals just don't get the joke - Labour, Democrats, Greens seem to have a sense of humour. Funnily enough the One Nation real candidates seem to have a great sense of humour, also seem desperate enough to play along with any joke so as to get some airplay... :-)

The best prank they pulled this week was to take a 'baby' and ask their victims to hold it, then drop it as the passed it... the poor guy nearly had a heart attack! Another one was the pram with the cover on it, and the 6 ft tall guy in the nappy with the dummy jumps out and chases the victim around... :-)

They tried to give the 'Mal Award' to the Family Farce Party, and she acted like a lunatic, trying to run away and ignore them instead of playing along like Latham the Larrikan does - which means that she came across as an arrogant stupid twit... :-)

One of the Chaser guys was on a chat show the other night and said that the great thing was that most Australian politicians had a sense of humour (except for a few !!!) and one COULD approach them with crazy stunts - even Ruddoch kept a straight face with a gag involving illegal immigrant high interest rates stowing away on Tampa 2!!!, and made a quick wise crack... I think the guys are too well known now... they come from a long line of crazy Aussies doing such stunts - a well known Australian Actor, Gary MacDonald, did such stunts for a while years ago... the show is a brilliant parody of CNN - they did a side splitting series a few years ago called CNNN. The last in the series is on next week with the summaries...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 08:43 PM

Glad to know that this thread has amused some.

And I hope that we Aussies have been able, not only to keep our overseas friends vaguely informed on the Aussie elections, but also been able to show our US friends how a Political Discussion can be conducted... :P

A friend has posted this to a list I run...

~~~~~~
Nationals split over Family First deal
Greg Roberts
The Australian October 08, 2004
THE Queensland Nationals have broken ranks with the Coalition over its preferences deal with the Family First Party, with Nationals Queensland Senate candidate Barnaby Joyce describing the Assemblies of God-affiliated party as "the lunatic Right".


Read the full article at:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11007286%5E2702,00.html

Deeply disturbing when the Qld National Party is the sane voice of the Coalition.

...Brock.
(Where's my tinfoil lined hat.)

~~~~~
As deeply disturbing when Wilson Tucky was the sane voice of reason from the Govt on the Environmnet debate a few years ago....

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 08:55 PM

You should really read that story - a brief extract..

~~~~
His comments came as police confirmed they were investigating an incident in which supporters of Family First allegedly hurled eggs at Greens party members after screaming obscenities at them and declaring that lesbians were "witches who should be burned at the stake".

Mr Joyce said he was deeply disturbed by a leaflet published by a Family First Victorian Senate candidate, Danny Nalliah, of the Catch the Fire Ministries.

"Spot Satan's strongholds in the areas you are living (brothels, gambling places, bottleshops, mosque, temples -- Freemasons/Buddhist/Hindu etc, witchcraft," the leaflet says.

"If you are ready to pray against it, do so. If not, bring it to your church and ask your intercessors, through the pastor, to pull these strongholds down."

...

Family First's Queensland Senate candidate, John Lewis, declined to comment, saying only that he was "too busy to be bothered about this".

The party's federal leader, Andrea Mason, declined to return calls.

The Coalition is exchanging preferences with the party in more than 100 seats, but Family First is directing preferences against Liberal candidate Ingrid Tall in the seat of Brisbane because she is a lesbian, and against Liberal MP Warren Entsch in Leichhardt because he supports gay marriages.



~~~~~~
Seems this is close to a breach of the 'Anti-Vilification' laws here - and guess who is lobbying to have them removed?

Looks like we are definitely head down the US politics path...

Reminds me of that old song...

"It's a Bumpy Road Ahead - Detour!"

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 09:00 PM

Compared with them, Pauline Hanson looks quite Moderate, even slightly Left Wing...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 09:58 AM

Well, The Treasurer staked his economic credibility on his claim that Labour's poilies had a $700 Million black hole. Labour said NO! and they had them costed independently. So they submitted them to Treasury Dept under the Law - the charter of Budget Honesty or summit, and Treasury said - We cannot find the black hole the Treasurer found. In fact Labour undercosted something that will make things better, but we found another black hole on something else for $700 million dollars ...

My head hurts... I'm not making this up you know!

Think I will go make an alfoil hat to protect me while I decide which one of the nutter parties I will vote for now, since I don't trust any of the major parties, and I don't want their mind control machines broadcasting mind control rays and affecting my judgement...

I'm not as foolish as I act you know...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST, John O'Lennaine
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 07:34 PM

Today's the day.

Today we find out whether or not the government has made itself sufficiently hated.

I fear it hasn't done enough.
Fraudulantly introducing the GST, Iraq, Sorry?, rorts & lies too numerous to mention, these things have come to be accepted, then expected, and finally admired.

The perception that being a thug equates with being a strong leader is too widespread.
Apparently Australians favour strength over humanity in their leaders - I don't know who did the reasearch.

I hate to be an Alexander but I don't think it's going to happen.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 07:42 PM

Well said, John.

In the cold reality of the light of dawn, I have realised that today they also vote in Afghanistan.

I'm off to vote soon.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 08:46 PM

i havent given up hope.. and am off to vote now!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 09:30 PM

I've just done my civic duty. Another tablecloth ballot paper - I hope I numbered everything correctly. Pauline Hanson has now the dubious honour of being last on my sheet, having replaced Fred Nile who had that honour for a long time.

I followed your excellent advice - to a lesser extent - Robin, by spread my first choices across two parties so No. 1 to the first candidate in my first choice of party, No. 2 to the first candidate on my second choice. After I spread them out I started numbering everyone I absolutely didn't want from the bottom up, rather than top down. A neat idea! Thanks.

I've decided that if ever we needed prayers and lots of light and positive thoughts from Mudcat, today is the day. If all that positive energy could sway the marginal voters away from little johnny and into a more positive direction it would be worth it.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Peace
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 03:33 AM

Any results yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 04:06 AM

No, the counting has just begun so we won't have any idea of our doom until at least a couple of hours and probably more.

I can't bear to think about it. Maybe the bottle of scotch is a good remedy and I'll think everything is fine tonight and only have to face reality in the cold hard light of morning.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Ooh-Aah2
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 05:22 AM

If Howard gets in again then the Tasmanian forests are gone. I don't think I'll be sober for a few days..

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 05:54 AM

Good luck, Aussies.


..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 09:57 AM

It's nearly midnight here and I was hoping someone else would have reported in by now.

I guess no-one really feels much like discussing it.

Neither do I

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 10:09 AM

Howard has romped it in, in the House of Reps, with a swing to him, and a swing away from Labour, something I did not expect. The trend was obvious at perhaps the earliest point in the night in the history of elections here for quite a while. You can check out the AEC site for yourself - search for Australian Electoral Commission.

The Aussie Senate has an even number of seats, and so an opposition needs to get a majority to block things - the govt rules if it gets an even split.

Howard seems to have pulled that off, and maybe a couple of Family Farce members too will give him control. The Democrats standing for re-election have been wiped out in this half-senate election. The greens made gains everywhere, nowhere to hold a seat, but might get a Senate seat - given that Bob Brown (who dared to exercise free speech in the Aussie Parliament while Dubwya was there!) has retired this election.

Looks like Johnny carefully split the labour blue collar supporters and the progressives.

Johnny becomes 2nd longest serving PM on 22 Dec 2004.

Latham's concession speech looked like that of a great statesman.

With control of the house finally after a dozen years or so, expect the sale of Telstra, repeal of many things, the unfair dismissal laws & other things blocked for years to pass thru now.

The aussie economy has been idling for a while, I now expect it to boom enough to cause interest rates to rise (forcing up mortgages!) by the end of the year, being the ironic knife in the back for those who Johnny terrorised into voting for him because they feared that Labour would stuff things up for them! People have been cutting back on discretionary expenditure because of increasing house values driving up mortgages, and increasing petrol prices, so stores are offering considerable discounts - I expect that although a temporary boom will occur, the growth won't last as people are too near the bone, especially those near the bottom. I also wonder how much of our 'Budget Surplus' would be created by accumulated HECS (Uni Study) Fees, which are drawing increases due to interest.

I wonder what 'core promises' were made this time?

I expect the coalition now to stay in for about another 10 years (we have had a previous period of 23 years of Conservative Govt in 'good times') - and things to gradually worsen as we slide down the tubes, until eventually the pendulum swings back.

I expect now that Bush will get back in.

Thanks for following this Aussie thread. Don't attribute everything that I posted as purely my creation.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 10:20 AM

mayby they're all at the kind of party I remember in 1975 - sitting around stunned, saying "how can they be so stupid, how can they believe all those lies".

We were running a concert tonight (no radio, nuffin') but several folks arrived & told us the bad news, they couldn't bear to stay home watching the coverage, they said it was a landslide & who would want to watch little johnny's smiles?

It's now 12.10 & I'm listening to a CD - I'll get the papers when I go out in the morning. Strangely enought I'm listening to a comic song about politicians spruiking, written c. 1900.

I'm sure there would be coverage on the ABC - www.abc.net.au - have a look if you want to. Maybe the Electoral Commission would have coverage, too - www.aec.gov.au -

I know JennyO & freda were at a Greens party tonight, no doubt they will get on line when they (eventually) come home.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 10:35 AM

Robin, looks like you & were typing away in unison!

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 10:55 AM

hi guys

have just come back from mig's, sandra, and prior to that a Greens electoral party in Epping. story so far:

The Greens may get two extra senators, Christine Milne, in Tasmania and John Kaye in NSW (looks like ousting Aden Ridgeway. The Greens vote has risen nationally, and they have cemented their place as the third party in Australia now.

Andrew Wilkie (Greens, former ONA Iraqi whistleblower) did very well in Bennelong, gaining 16.5% of the vote, and earlier in the evening John Howard got quite a scare when his seat was in doubt. His majority in Bennelong has dropped, and he has needed the help of preferences to get in this time.

every cloud has a silver lining - my oldest daughter is two weeks overdue and I'm hoping to become a grandmother in the next day or two.

commiserations and best wishes
freda

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 11:09 AM

and...

Coalition poised to take control of the Senate
October 10, 2004 - 12:24AM syd morn herald

The coalition was last night poised to control both Houses of Parliament after a swing against the Australian Democrats and independents in the Senate. Coalition gains in Queensland, NSW and Tasmania took the government to 38 seats - one seat away from a majority in the upper house. The Democrats were decimated, losing all three sitting senators up for re-election in Queensland, Western Australia and NSW, cutting its numbers to four. Early figures showed the coalition winning three Senate seats in Western Australia and possibly a fourth which would give it control of the Senate.

The Greens were set to boost their numbers to three in the Senate, with former state MP and environmentalist Christine Milne within reach of a full quota. One Nation's Len Harris, independent Shayne Murphy and Australian Progressive Alliance leader Meg Lees looked highly likely to lose their seats. Labor frontbencher Senator Stephen Conroy said the result would make the government less accountable.

"It looks like they probably have 38 votes, which means they will only need one vote to pass the sale of Telstra, so it will be difficult to hold them to account in the Senate," Senator Conroy told ABC radio. "Unfortunately it will probably mean the Senate will become a rubber stamp ... and that will not be a good thing for Australia or for democracy." AAP

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 02:19 PM

Oh, this does not sound good. Of course I can't figure most of it but if I'm right, this does not bode well for the U.S. election. Its as if the U.S. has all of its lackeyes firmly in place. I know that in B.C. the premier is just hoping Bush can get another four years so they can continue to rape the land and starve the poor.

Its all these little guys that prop up the U.S. regime.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Peace
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 03:10 PM

Years ago a very good friend of mine called me the morning Nixon won the American election to become President. My friend was quite drunk. It was about 4:00 AM. He said after a few minutes in a very clear yet slurred voice: "Bruce, it's bullshit. Once again the American voters get what they deserve. But why do I have to keep getting what they deserve."

Sorry, Aussies.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 05:32 PM

Sandra in Sydney,

That is exactly what I have been thinking all night long: "how can they be so stupid, how can they believe all those lies".

And brucie, you're absolutely right. I am so tired of being at the bottom of the pile, getting kicked around by all of these pollies. I have been working as a casual/temp for the last 10 years, trying desperately to get a permanent job, with annual leave, sick pay, long service leave etc and also so that I can kick this constant stressful financial fear that sits on my back all the time due to job insecurity and loss of work. And I'm not a dole-bludger. I have a lot of experience and qualifications behind me. And I spend a lot of my waking hours searching for jobs, writing job apps, going for interviews, getting rejection letters - the cycle never ends.

I'm tired of having little johnny and his cronies in power, who only care about the rich people and who are now closely aligned with a moral-majority religious party who are going to help and support him to put the squeeze on us all to fit into a narrow-minded mould of their idea of "the right way to live". That means telling women they should be at home minding the babies, and telling unmarried women they can't have IVF (infertility) treatment, Meanwhile our health and education systems are going down the toilet at a rapid rate of knots. And little johnny is brown-nosing Dubya so that we have become a satellite of Dubya's America.

This is not Australia - not the Australia I knew where we looked after each oter and didn't do the dirty on our mates.

I'm depressed. I think I need the scotch today, not last night.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 05:41 PM

brucie - "...Once again the American voters get what they deserve. But why do I have to keep getting what they deserve."

EXACTLY!

I guess thats my real interest in U.S. politics. What happens there effects all of us. An economic boycott of the U.S. may be our last resort if Bush wins again.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 06:01 PM

Put in my vote for the Greens. Went home. Watched The Sopranos all night. Only feel like talking to Mudcat friends today. Oh Dear! Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 06:25 PM

I hope I'm alive to see the day that the Pacific Coast of North America, Australia, New Zealand and our Asian neighbors form an economic alliance separate from that old Atlantic trade route. We have it all and we don't really need their 'old boys' club. What would the U.S. and Britain be without us?

Lets shake those vestiges of colonialism. We'll have our own 'tea party'.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 12:25 AM

Australians all let us rejoice,
For we have tasted greed;
Our mortgage rates mean more to us,
Than mere humanity;
Our land abounds with credit cards
And John Howard took us there;
Don't stop to count as your debts mount,
Advance Australia fair!
Don't stop to count as your debts mount,
"Advance Australia fair!"

While refugees from terror sail'd,
To trace wide oceans o'er,
To Iraq with Little John we went,
To start a bloody war.
The sick, the old have all been sold,
Our children's future care;
They're all worth nowt, so rise and shout,
Advance Australia fair!
They're all worth nowt, so rise and shout,
Advance Australia fair!

Geoff Francis & Peter Hicks

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 02:01 AM

Damn


Condolences Aussie friends.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 10:02 AM

Australian election date - 2007

God help us

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 11:26 AM

Condolences, friends.

We'll try to do better in the States but we've got a whole lot of the same conservative wantabees around here.

Keep exporting good wine!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 08:07 PM

You seem to have exported quite a few here... :-) You can have Family Farce back... :-)

It now will be quite a few weeks before the dust settles, especially in the Senate, as preferences will be needed to work out the final few seats.

The Democrats may get their Qld guy back in, 3 parties are in the race for the final two seats.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 12:26 AM

So this is democracy, eh? Rule by the people.
Well, 52.6% of them anyway.

In his acceptance speech, Howard made the pseudo-statesmanly observation that he must rule for those who did not vote for him as well as for those that did.

OK, Mr. Prime Minister let's get started:
Withdraw the troops from Iraq, get those refugees into something resembling human accomodation, and make a Prime Ministerial apology to the stolen generation.

Give us a whistle when you've got that done, there's more.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 08:18 AM

Today, Johnny publicly stated that he would not let his increased power go to his head.... :-) Oh Yeah!

Seems that Family Farce had a policy (that none of us knew about) about not selling Telstra. Could be why the Democrats & Greens got suckered into putting them higher on their preferences list - their preferences will contribute significantly to putting in Family Farce.

I forwarded the song "Updated Advance Australia Fair" to Arch Bevis - my Labour member for Brisbane - about the only Labour member who increased his vote - who replied personally

'Dear Robin,

I hope you are wrong - but after Saturday who knows?

Regards

Arch Bevis'

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 10:21 AM

Well, he is already announcing his plans to screw the real people, the workers.

And he has trotted out his "mandate" myth again. He used that to introduce GST and now he is using it to put the final nails in the coffin of industrial well-being for the workers.

Monday, October 11, 2004. 6:47pm (AEST)

Coalition targets unfair dismissal laws

The re-elected Howard Government has indicated restructuring industrial relations, particularly the unfair dismissal laws, are among its first goals if it wins control of both houses of Parliament.

The Coalition's mandate could also allow it to push through the full privatisation of Telstra, changes to cross media ownership laws and its forestry policies, which fuelled a new record close on the Australian stock market as related companies made strong gains.

The Coalition is set to take 38 of the 76 Senate seats and is expected to turn to the Christian-oriented Family First party, which is likely to gain a seat, to back its legislative agenda.

It could be the first time the government has controlled the upper house in 23 years.

"We certainly will press ahead very strongly with things we believe in for a long time, particularly in the area of industrial relations," Prime Minister John Howard said.

The unfair dismissal laws require companies to compensate workers who are retrenched.
'Key priority'

Treasurer Peter Costello, who Mr Howard says he will reappoint to the post, says changes to the industrial relations laws top the agenda.

"We're going to implement all of our policies, including policies that have been blocked for years and obviously policies like the unfair dismissal laws, which are restricting the creation of jobs in Australia, will be a key priority," he said.

Other policies previously blocked by opposition parties were the full sale of telecom company Telstra and liberalisation of media ownership laws.

Mr Howard says Parliament will sit for two or three weeks next month, from November 16, to begin passing measures such as paying doctors 100 per cent of the Medicare scheduled fee and increasing the private health insurance rebate for older Australians.

"We are very keen that the Parliament sit as soon as possible and we want to say to the Australian people that we respect the mandate that's been given to us," he said.

"It's a very strong, a very emphatic mandate."

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 06:10 PM

Core Promises!

Or as I said to a friend during the campaign - Caw! Promises?!!!

During the Campaign, he threw money around like a drunken sailor: the new Govt is not even sworn in yet, and Johnny has now said that he will "re-evaluate all the Govt Policies". This from a guy who campaigned on "Trust" - and with his record of 'honesty' too GST, 'overboard'!

The very people who switched to him based on that campaign strategy, are now going to discover that he lied...

How do you know a politician is lying - he says "Trust Me"!

Actually, "Caw! Promises?!!!" would make a great song, but my muse is on sabbatical, I think...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 06:19 PM

Just found this while looking for something else - it's appropriate -
Political Song - (Innocent Voter Swallowed Lie) - or it could be easily modofied for Johnny!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: rich-joy
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 02:02 AM

I've been working out-of-town and away from my 'puter for a few days, but, John O'Lennaine, sadly there's some truth in what you posted the other day :

" ... The perception that being a thug equates with being a strong leader is too widespread. Apparently Australians favour strength over humanity in their leaders - I don't know who did the reasearch ..."

Well, we were having a quiet beer in a Brisbane pub on election eve and chatting to the young barmaid about it all. She said she didn't like Howard, but disliked Latham even more. Why?
: Because he got a tear in his eye in public - and HOW can you have someone like that governing the Country???

We were gob-smacked : this young woman will soon be producing the next generation of Australians ...

So, all we can do is ourselves "lead by example" and as suggested by Andy from the Blue Mountains on an Aussie Folk List :

" ... The best way to defeat the Liberal government is to commit to acts of kindness and generosity of spirit wherever you can. This way any mean mindedness and any poverty of spirit will be superseded by sincerity and honesty on a grass roots level.
Don't despair. Do what this government has proven itself incapable of doing.
Stay together and keep hearts and minds of REAL Australia intact.
andyb"

Thanks Andy.


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 04:57 AM

It took ages for some people to forgive Bob Hawke for publicly crying, and that was just the Labour Supporters...

Saw on TV Americans criticising Kerry. Seems that because he spoke about war crimes in Vietnam, that he has betrayed not only his country, but also the US troops that he was ratting on, thus is unfit to be President.

We had that in Queensland when somebody finally ratted on the crooked cops. "Betrayed his workmates"...

These people who think like this vote!

And you wonder what's wrong with the world...

Don't forget to watch "The Chaser" on ABC TV2 this week - their summary of the election.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 08:10 PM

A couple of thousand postal votes went astray - a private contractor's fault - and now Qld voters in Maranoa, got sent NSW senate papers... counting will be delayed s bit longer...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 09:06 PM

Couple questions...

When will your next election (forPM) be?

Will Howard be able to run then, too?

Thanks, Lyle

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 12:40 AM

1) Anytime the Prime Minister calls it, but the maximum term is 3 years.

2) If he wants - he is not limited to two terms like the US - and we do not have fixed terms. That was only brought in to stop US Presidents that the people wanted because they thought they were good from staying in office forever...

3) We don't have a democracy based on the stupid American system, we have one based on the stupid British system...

4) The US system is a Circus designed to distract the populace from the facts that only rich guys get to be President, and that both parties are indistinguishable to non-Americans, so you really have the cleverest form of Single Party Dictatorship - run by Big Business Crooks.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 01:11 AM

With the Howard government's proposed changes to cross-media ownership laws, Packer will be able to buy the Fairfax newspapers, and that will effectively mean that the majority of Australians will get no news that isn't government-sanctioned.

Thus the Liberals will be in government forever.

I half-heard something the other night regarding a plan to stop funding government schools altogether and issue coupons to parents to be used "at the school of their choice".
Hard to believe. I surely must have misunderstood what was said. Someone please tell me I misunderstood what was said.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 05:02 AM

I am still trying to come to terms with the proposition that Labor allocated their preferences to Family First ahead of the Greens and the Democrats.

My opinion of this oscillates between incompetence and irresponsibility. A party that can make a decision so stupid is not fit to run the country, so maybe it's a good thing they lost. Bow, if only we could make the Liberals lose as well.

As a "below the line" voter, I put FF stone motherless last.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 07:46 AM

'I half-heard something the other night regarding a plan to stop funding government schools altogether and issue coupons to parents to be used "at the school of their choice". '

I heard this one ages ago before the election. It'll be popular, and cause the State Schools to be shut down as Schooling is 'Privatised'. Everybody wants their scruffy little rugrats to go to the best schools only, of course...

The senate will have the method of voting changed, so we will never get rid of the buggers. I'm annoyed that they can even do this without a referendum.

The Americans are going to reject the FTA (now called F*** The Aussies!) unless they get rid of Labour's amendments. Goodbye PBS, Intellectual rights, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 11:40 AM

Foolestroupe: Best answers I've ever gotten about forms of government - thanks!

So how about this?

Everybody in Australia that voted for Howard moves to United States.
Everybody in US that is against Bush moves to Australia.

Then we'd have:
1) US in such bad shape Canada would have to take over
2) Ausralia becomes the most powerful nation in the world
3) Everybody happy, and
4) I'd get to meet you!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 11:43 AM

Sounds like a plan to me, Lyle. When are you coming?

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 07:22 PM

Australia cannot become the most powerful nation.

Between 75% to 90% of the land is arid. A large proportion of the arable land has been built on.

There is this insane idea that we can support a much larger population, in spite of the fact that it is predicted that we will be unable to have enough water for the current population in a few years time if the current world weather trends continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 12:40 AM

Oh, God! Oh Me! Oh My! Oh Feck, whatever!

After touting the predictions of endless riches for all in the future economic circumstances, and after throwing money around like a drunken sailor (we need a shanty now!), and saying that all election promises made will be fulfilled, the Treasurer has now stated that the future will not be so good, and that belt tightening may have to occur...

Be still my beating heart!

Am I surprised? No...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 12:53 AM

Does the word NEOCON mean anything to anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 05:07 AM

NEOCON = Neo-Conservative === "Stupid Dangerous Wanker", or is that "Dangerous Stupid Wanker"...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yesterday in my mail I received my Centrelink notice which informed me that my payment had been reduced by approx a dollar a fortnight. No explanation, but the date of effect was 9 Oct 2004 - the election date! Just as well they didn't send the bloody notices out to everybody in advance of the election date...

"He's not MY Prime Minister!"

The most likely reason is a revision of the rate of "deeming" of the theoretical rate of interest income from savings, no matter what rate you actually get (if any), and any income you do get, you have to physically advise the amoount so they can deduct half of that amount aanyway...

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST, John O'Lennaine
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 09:14 AM

Brucie -
"Neocon" has not yet become part of the Australian political lexicon. I can see that changing soon.

Most of the worst features of American culture are sooner or later imported here, and now we have a juggernautic conservative government that will be almost impossible to remove and which will ride roughshod over any and all humanity in its path for years, maybe decades, I'd say we have imported the neocon in fact, if not yet in name.

I saw a scarey picture a day after the election, of Howard coming out of what I assume was St. Mary's Cathederal in Sydney.
It suddenly flashed on me that a new age of christian fundamentalism (lower case intended) is dawning.

If the Americans don't remove Bush this year, I'd say we're all as good as f-d, over and over, for a long long time.

I hope I'm not being overly pessimistic - no, wait a minute, I hope I AM being overly pessimistic - what the hell, I only came here to read Foulestroupe's review of the Chaser report, and he hasn't even clocked on yet.

Ah well, off to bed. I'll wake up tommorrow and find it will all have been a nightmare.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 02:44 PM

Congratulations to the thinking people of Australia who returned John Howard to office.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 08:50 AM

You call THAT thinking?

Mudcat has deleted my previous attempt to reply, along with my review of The Chaser.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:43 AM

Seventh Labor frontbencher moves back - Wednesday, 20 October , 2004 18:14:51; Reporter: Alexandra Kirk; ABC

The Shadow Minister for Housing, Daryl Melham, is the latest frontbencher to tell his leader he'll be moving to the backbench. Caucus is meeting in Canberra on Friday, when the factions decide who gets to sit on the frontbench, but their scope for action is getting increasingly constricted by the unavailability of experienced candidates. And Labor's agony may be further prolonged because Mark Latham may not announce his new shadow ministers until next week.

So far this week, frontbenchers Bob McMullan, Lindsay Tanner and Craig Emerson have announced they're shifting to the backbench. This afternoon Daryl Melham told Mark Latham he wouldn't be a candidate for the shadow ministry. PM understands while he has his left faction's support to stay on the frontbench, he feels he's had a fair run and is happy to make a contribution on the backbench through parliamentary committees. A fight is still on over whether Simon Crean will remain on the frontbench. PM understands Mr Latham is working hard to save his former leader, in the face of trenchant opposition in some quarters. Mr Latham's also understood to want the newly-elected Peter Garrett on his frontbench.

And as the fallout from Labor's defeat continues, PM's been told Lindsay Tanner took himself off to the backbench after being offered the shadow finance portfolio, which he had between 1998 and 2001. He was also offered leader of opposition business in the House of Representatives. Lindsay Tanner won't comment and neither will Mark Latham.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 08:55 AM

Family First losing Senate control to Coalition - Election 2004 -



Family First losing Senate control to Coalition
By Tim Colebatch
Canberra
October 22, 2004

The Government's grip on a historic Senate majority is tightening, with National Party candidate Barnaby Joyce steaming away in the count for Queensland's final Senate seat.

A steady flow of votes counted since election night has doubled the
Nationals' lead over Family First at the point in the preference
distribution where one or other candidate is eliminated.

On election night, the Nationals led by roughly 2500 votes, assuming all voters vote above the line. Their lead has now doubled to almost 5000 votes, and Mr Joyce is odds-on to win.

His victory would give the Coalition 39 of the 76 seats in the new
Senate to take office next July, the first time in 24 years that a
government has controlled the upper house. With senators elected for
six-year terms, that control should last until at least 2011.

In the House of Representatives, Labor has regained a 45-vote lead in
Hindmarsh, the one seat still in doubt. The last 360 votes will be
counted today.

In Tasmania, Greens Senate candidate Christine Milne is odds-on to take the final seat after clawing back more votes in her struggle with Family First. The Greens have almost 40,000 votes and Family First just 7300, but on paper, preferences would give it the seat. But Tasmania has many independent minds, and 17 per cent of voters have selected their own preferences. Ms Milne needs just 7 per cent of voters to give her their preference ahead of Family First.

No other Senate seats are in doubt. The major parties will split them
three-all in NSW and South Australia. Family First will win the final
seat in Victoria, and the Greens will take it in WA. The Coalition has won three seats in each state and Labor two.

This would see Labor again with 28 seats in the new Senate. The Greens would move from two to four, while the Democrats shrink from seven to four. One Nation and the independents will disappear, leaving Family First's Steven Fielding alone in the corner benches.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 09:21 AM

"But Tasmania has many independent minds, and 17 per cent of voters have selected their own preferences." -

Am I right in drawing from this that 17% of the electorate voting below the line is considered to be a LOT?

Aaaahhh, my poor gullible complacent fellow Australians, when will you ever learn?

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 10:09 AM

I wonder if any Liberals of conscience will cross over and form an alliance in the Senate with the greens, Dems N Labour to create a limit of the govt's powers? here's hoping....

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 08:54 PM

Australia is the home of 'The Donkey Vote' (I seem to remember that was well over one fifth of the electorate), and also a great gambling nation with a sense of fairness.

The Donkey vote is 'start at the top and go all the way down in order - no matter who it is'.

Places on the ballot papers are selected by random draw - nothing fairer for a gamble than that!

Many die hard supporters vote the party line (with the party distribution of preferences) - so all you have to do (in the Senate) is place a 1 in a single box 'above the line' - you don;t need a lot of intelligence for that.

So for nearly one fifth of the electorate to number from 1 to about 70 in order, it means that they severely disagree with 'the party lines'. That's pretty well enough to swing any Aussie election, lower house, and get 1 or 2 Senate candidates up.

BTW, in Federal elections, we have Federal rules, so everybody votes under the same rules: State elections - each state has its own rules.

I wa also disgusted at the the way the US owned media have threated Aussie elections more like the US system - a Presidential style system which assumes first past the post voting.

Most Aussies had no choice whether they could vote for Howard or Latham, only the people in their respective electorates could do that!

The only thing we can do here is 'party vote' - even if your local rep is a drunken cretin, you have to 'vote for the party'!

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 09:55 PM

It has been noticed over some years here that second rate US unemployed political advisors have been employed here in Australia - not always a good idea as many tactics that work well in the USA backfire here, not only because we have a compulsory preferential system (with the 'donkey vote') but we are still a differently culture, not fully brainwashed 'Americans' yet. We also tend to have a higher average understanding of the world too - we are not as isolationist as the USA.

~~~~~~~~~

Weekend Australian
The Nation


Coalition Senate control in doubt
Patricia Karvelas and Andrew McGarry
23oct04

JOHN Howard's chances of controlling the Senate in his own right were in doubt last night as the Nationals' Barnaby Joyce fell behind One Nation's Len Harris for the first time in the crucial race for the sixth Queensland seat.

An unusual leap by One Nation on the last day for receiving postal votes left Mr Joyce angry with the Prime Minister for supporting a Queensland-specific preference deal and campaign strategy.

"John Howard could have lost the once-in-a-lifetime chance to control the upper house by sending out a letter to the National Party base (asking people to vote) for the Liberal party ticket," he said.

The Coalition won the election with 87 lower house seats, up five, while Labor had a net loss of four, leaving it with 60. With three independents, the majority is now 14, up from 8. But in the Senate, the Coalition, at 38, is one seat short of an absolute majority.

The Nationals vote for the Senate seat has declined over the past three days, and after leading the minor parties they are now about 500 votes behind One Nation. But with 150,000 votes to be counted, experts said it was still impossible to call the result.

ABC election analyst Antony Green said the Nationals were pulling ahead until yesterday, and it was impossible to predict the outcome based on one day's count.

"It's the first time it's happened - I don't know what happened to the vote today," he said.

If One Nation continued to stay ahead, the Greens' Drew Hutton could win the seat.

"There has been a dramatic change to the count today and I'm not quite sure what's caused that," Green said. "What that suggests to me is they have counted something quite specific which has caused that change."

Labor's candidate for the South Australian seat of Hindmarsh, Steve Georganas, yesterday became the new MP by just 113 votes. The seat is now the second most marginal in the country, after Swan in Western Australia.

"I'd be lying if I didn't say it felt terrific," Mr Georganas said.
"It's been seven years of campaigning, solid grassroots campaigning, and it's paid off."

The Liberal Party is set to request a recount in Swan after Labor claimed victory late yesterday, with sitting member Kim Wilkie scraping home by a margin of only 109 votes.

Robert Hames, the Liberal campaign manager in Western Australian, said a final decision on a recount had yet to be made and would probably wait until the official declaration of the poll next week.

West Australian ALP state secretary Bill Johnston said the party was claiming Swan, even though the Liberals had yet to concede, and he doubted the Australian Electoral Commission would order a recount.

But the Liberals conceded Labor's Graham Edwards had retained the West Australian seat of Cowan, with the latest count giving him a margin of 1199 votes, and only 182 votes left to tally.

Mr Edwards said yesterday his win was historic as it was the first time the Cowan electors had returned the same candidate in three successive elections.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 10:02 PM

Somebody sent this to me... the sentiments mainly apply to the USA, with the exception of their lack of preferential voting...

~~~~~~
Learning from the enemy.

If you want to see what kind of lunatic we are up against, have a look at this kook. Back in 83 she almost singlehandedly killed multicultural education in Queensland. Some of the stuff on her website probably gives the FFP guys wet dreams.

http://www.angelfire.com/id/ronajoyner/

BUT, she also shows us important things. Form small working groups and think tanks with misleading names. Write submissions on behalf of those groups. Badger politicians and committees... Respond to every call for public comment by writing submissions. Be active on paper as well as on the streets.

Create petitions, and -O-R-G-A-N-I-S-E-. These nutcases have changed government policy and corporate direction time and again over the last 25 years often with a matter of 500 signatures or form letters...

We have to find a way to organise The Others: the Pagans, the Kinks, the Boheminas, the Ferals, the Goths, all the minorities that people like Rona Joyner hate and fear.

We can rally around and support groups like the Greens, and we can create our own voices. Create (and fund) Think Tanks that sound neutral but provide reasoned arguments against the economic rationalists, the hatemongers and destroyers. Form lobby groups that raise their voices against the Assemblies of God and their ilk and their visions of a _pure_ and purely Christian Australia remade in their image...

And by all that is Secular, educate people about our electoral system. Make them think. Convince them that they can chose their own preferences, they don't have to follow how to vote cards... If I had a dollar for every time someone told me "I can't vote Green their preferences go to Labor" (or vice versa) I could afford to get very very drunk... (Which Johnny's smug grin makes me want to do.)

...Brock.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 10:38 AM



Voter revolt' might win Green seat

October 23, 2004

A BELOW-THE-LINE voting rebellion by Labor and Australian Democrats voters in Tasmania might still get Greens candidate Christine Milne into the Senate, party leader Bob Brown said today.

Ms Milne is in a tight battle with Family First's Jacquie Petrusma for the final Tasmanian Senate seat from the October 9 election.

Senator Brown said Ms Milne's primary vote grew from 12.6 per cent earlier in the week to 13.3 per cent today, with only a handful of votes left to count. A quota is 14.3 per cent.

"What will help Christine to reach towards a quota is a below-the-line rebellion by Labor and Democrat voters," he said in a statement.

"Although these parties directed preferences to Family First ahead of the Greens, up to 70 per cent of below-the-line voters for both parties put Christine ahead of Family First.

"It is this rebellion together with her improved primary count which has put Christine in a better position."

Senator Brown said the outcome would probably be known on Tuesday when the Australian Electoral Commission computer distributed the preferences and came up with a final result.

He said Greens candidate Drew Hutton remained in a race with the Nationals' Barnaby Joyce for the final Senate spot in Queensland.

"If he were to win, it would deprive Prime Minister John Howard of an absolute Senate majority for the coming three year parliamentary term."

Senator Brown said the Greens' Rachel Siewert was set to win a seat in Western Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 10:43 AM

The Australian



Family First a sign Lucky Country is going the American way

23oct04

JOHN Howard is much less a cultural Americaphile than you might think. His middle name is Winston, after all, and his parents knew who they were naming him after. In a recent interview he told me he thought "pure rapture" about US political culture was more common in the Labor Right, whereas he was a defender of distinctive Australian cultural expression.

Nonetheless Howard is one shrewd politician and recognises power rests with the US. Interestingly, he has presided over, though not caused, a tremendous Americanisation of our political culture.

Mark Latham, like a large number of ALP Right figures, has a passionate interest in US politics and consciously apes a number of US tactics, such as the shallow and facile "triangulation" of former Clinton adviser Dick Morris.

The way Latham tried to make his utterly unremarkable biography into the central feature of Labor's campaign was Clintonesque, with "a place called Green Valley" substituting for Bill Clinton's more euphonious "a place called Hope", though with infinitely less effect (it's just as well Latham wasn't born in Fairy Bower).

Latham's failure illustrates the difficulty leaders have in translating successful formulas across cultures. But at deeper levels this election discloses the Americanisation of our political culture.

This is evident in four decisive dynamics: the emergence of a Christian Right, the Americanisation of the middle class, the acceptance of ethnic diversity and our unique security dynamics.

Australia has been pregnant with a Christian Right for years, but they could just never quite get their act together. Brian Harradine was really a Christian Right senator but made no effort to take his movement national. Fred Nile has been a Christian Right presence in the NSW Parliament, but too narrow in his appeal. But at this election Family First scored about 2 per cent of the vote nationally and, through shrewd preference deals, may snare one or even two senators. Family First is the right name for a party of this kind. It carries an ideological message - support of families - but is inclusive, reassuring.

The more the secular blowhards of the ABC sneer at Family First the greater its appeal will become. Its spokesmen have emerged as moderate, sensible, mainstream Australians. In fielding so many candidates so quickly the party attracted a few cranks, but as they emerged the party quickly distanced itself from them.

There is nothing even remotely threatening to the traditional Australian way about a political movement that takes its inspiration from Christian values. Indeed we are only two generations away from a time when all mainstream political movements did.

Family First emerges from the Assemblies of God church. One of the most powerful social trends in recent years has been the growth of Bible-based, evangelical Christianity. You see it all over the Gold Coast and the fast-growing McMansion suburbs of all our big cities.

The American Christian Right is much demonised in the Australian media, but within the US it is a perfectly normal, mainstream force. It has not turned the US into a theocracy nor curtailed civil liberties. It has injected a strong values discussion into national politics.

There are about 50 million US evangelical Christians. They are highly committed, with a high church-going rate, and their churches have become centres of social and political as well as religious organisation. Australian Bible-based churches are also committed, evident in the growth of Christian schools. They are a social movement that seeks political expression. That's called democracy.

This is part of the broader Americanisation of the middle class. The Liberal Party now holds Penrith and Blacktown in Sydney's western suburbs, and only just lost Parramatta. In Melbourne, Aston, which was held by Labor all through the 1980s and is classic mortgage-belt territory, is now safer Liberal than Kooyong.

Australia's national wealth is now $5trillion, which is $250,000 for every man, woman and child. The growth of the McMansions is about much more than the traditional obsession with housing, though our concern with housing is an entirely good thing, the key to our social stability. The McMansion suburbs are now politically detribalised. Labor can never count on them automatically again, nor indeed can the Liberals.

They are suburbs whose residents dispose of a high degree of private wealth compared with a generation ago. They are defined by concern for their homes and their mortgage payments, social conservatism on crime and education, patriotism and support for our armed forces, and interest in local issues.

It's an unsatisfactory term but you might think of these suburbs as the middle of the middle class, or as ex-working class. In order to compete here Labor needs to be less a traditional Labor Party and more like the US Democrats, friendly to business, friendly to family values, including private schools, friendly to religion, reliable on security.

John Kerry, the most left of any Democrat presidential candidate since Michael Dukakis in 1988, says he'll keep the Bush tax cuts for everyone earning up to $US200,000 (about $272,000) per year. He's competing for those votes. The top US personal tax rate is 40 per cent and cuts in at nine times the average income. That's a tax scale that provides incentive and promotes aspiration. It's the way for a society that wants to be wealthier, and that's the desire of seats such as Greenway, Lindsay and Aston.

On national security we don't, unlike New Zealand or Canada, have a giant neighbour to protect us. We don't, unlike the Europeans, live surrounded by like-minded, rich states. We know we have to provide for our own security. The UN is not relevant in our part of the world. So we not only value the US alliance, we see the world in a more similar way to the US.

And here's a point on ethnic diversity. This year's epic NRL grand final, in which the magnificent Bulldogs triumphed over the Sydney Roosters, was a historic first. All the points for the winners were scored by Muslims (Hazem El Masri and Matt Utai).

Nobody noticed, and there's no reason why they should. But it's a social indicator nonetheless. Just as in the US, professional sport integrates very fast, in terms of race and religion, because it emphasises performance, not background.

Aspirational voters come from everywhere. An idea born in the US, we may produce an even better version of it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:32 PM

Ye Gods! I wish some Mudcat Pixie had split this thread at 100 posts - it takes me SOoooooo long to load!!!

(Sorry!!)

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 06:48 AM

freda, do you really think that anybody in the Liberal Party is going to risk Honest John's vindictiveness by listening to the voice of conscience?

He uses it to rule the public service - it is now mre politically subservient than at any time since Federation.

He has used it to bring the ABC to heel - nobody ever managed that before.

Do you think members of his own party will be exempt?

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 07:10 AM

no, but I'm hoping someone from family first might hop across..

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 07:55 AM

PM's fresh agenda hits Senate hurdle; By Louise Dodson, John Garnaut and Mark Metherell; October 23, 2004

But the Coalition's strong expectation of controlling the Senate was looking suddenly shaky last night. Latest counting showed the lead of the crucial Queensland National Party candidate, Barnaby Joyce, had all but evaporated - from 5000 votes to a few hundred.

The shock shift, on the last day for receiving postal votes, could have profound implications for the Coalition's plans to reshape media ownership, industrial relations and ownership of Telstra.

An exasperated Mr Joyce - who was welcomed to the National Party's first party room meeting on Wednesday - said a personal letter from Mr Howard to traditional Nationals voters in regional Queensland had split the Coalition vote. "John Howard's once-in-a lifetime opportunity to control the Senate could be destroyed by his own letter. I'm not sure that's what he had in mind."

The National Party's calculations of the expected flow of preference votes suggest it maintains a razor-thin margin over One Nation. But if One Nation gets ahead, preference flows should ensure the Greens beat both of them for the sixth Queensland seat. This would probably leave the Coalition with 38 Senate seats, one short of a majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:06 AM

Greens hope to win final Senate spot in Tasmania
October 25, 2004 - 8:38PM; syd morning herald

The Australian Greens are hopeful rebel Labor and Australian Democrats voters will hand the Greens' Christine Milne the final Senate position in Tasmania. The sixth seat in Tasmania will be decided tomorrow after the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) distributes preferences. The Greens claimed the Senate spot for Ms Milne on election night but it later became evident that conservative Family First candidate Jacquie Petrusma might scrape ahead on preferences.

But Greens Senator Bob Brown today said there was growing optimism his party would win the seat after all, due to a leakage of preferences from Labor and the Australian Democrats. Labor and the Democrats did a deal with Family First, putting it ahead of the Greens on their Senate voting tickets, meaning the preferences of anyone voting above the line flow to Family First before the Greens.

However, Tasmania, with the ACT, has the highest percentage of people voting below the line, which allows voters to choose where their preferences will go. Senator Brown said about 20 per cent of Tasmanians had voted below the line, with 70 per cent of preferences from people who voted for the Democrats or Labor flowing to Ms Milne.
"There is something of a preference rebellion," he said. "I suspect many of those people voted (like that) because they didn't like what their party was doing. "It's giving us renewed hope that Christine will cross the line before Family First."

In Queensland, a nervous Nationals candidate Barnaby Joyce will have to wait until Wednesday before the AEC determines Senate preferences.
Mr Joyce is again leading One Nation's Len Harris - by about 700 primary votes - after a scare on Friday, when he fell behind in the count. The final result will hinge on where preferences flow and Mr Joyce said the trend suggested the Nationals would ultimately win the seat. "My gut feeling is nervous," Mr Joyce said. "(But) I'd be more likely to put money on me than against me." While the Nationals look a good chance to pick up two extra Senate spots - the other going to Fiona Nash in NSW - the situation is looking glum for the Democrats.AAP

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 10:21 PM

Just on ABC Channel 2 News

Johnny has an absolute Senate majority from 1 July 2005.

Providing of course that any challenges based on the stuff-ups in postal voting are overruled.

The final step might be a reissue of the Senate Election for Queensland, which might be seen as a Referendum on whether Johnny should have that absolute majority.

The worrying things are:

1) US making noises about not liking the amendments to the FTA (F*** The Aussies) insisted on by Labour.

2) Johnny making big noises about not letting it go to his head (from the 'Never Ever a GST' man!!!)

3) Johnny saying that he will push thru all the things that the Senate has obstructed...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 06:29 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/28/1098667878269.html#

PM's clean sweep: Senate control
October 28, 2004 - 3:05PM

Prime Minister John Howard will have control of the upper house after the Nationals today were declared the winner of Queensland's Slast enate seat.

Nationals candidate Barnaby Joyce was declared the winner of the sixth Senate seat when the Australian Electoral Commission completed the final computer count on the complex Senate preference distribution.

The win by Mr Joyce will give the coalition government 39 of the Senate's 76 members.

In the Queensland Senate race, the Liberals won three seats, Labor two and the Nationals one seat.

The result means from July next year, the Howard government will be able to pass controversial legislation previously blocked by the Senate.

It will be the first time a government has held such dominance since the Fraser government in the 1970s.

Veteran Queensland Nationals Senator Ron Boswell burst into tears when the result was declared and called Mr Howard to deliver the good news.

Senator Boswell said it was an "historic day for Australia".

The government will now be able to pass legislation for the full sale of Telstra and introduce more industrial relations reforms.

Asked whether the Senate would be a rubber stamp now for the government, Senator Boswell told reporters in Brisbane: "The prime minister has said he is not going to abuse the power and he is going to be very careful what he puts through.

"He said he will be very happy to work with us ... this is the icing on his cake."

Australian Democrats leader Andrew Bartlett said Australians would have to watch the Senate closely now minor parties had lost the balance of power.

The final result of Victoria's Senate count will not be known for
another week.

The Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) is still entering data from
about 80,000 below-the-line ballot papers and does not expect to compute the results of preferences until next Wednesday at the earliest.

An AEC spokesman said counting had been slow because of the large field of 65 senate candidates.

It would also be interrupted by the Melbourne Cup holiday on Tuesday.
So far, 3,105,039 votes - or 94.25 per cent of the total enrolled in
Victoria - have been counted.

It is expected that about 2.5 per cent of electors - or about 80,000 people - have voted below the line, meaning their preferences cannot be allocated according to group tickets and have to be entered manually.

Steve Fielding from the Family First Party is almost a certainty to become the sixth and final senator from Victoria, thanks to preferences from both major parties plus the Democrats.

In he wins, Mr Fielding will become the party's first senator in Victoria. In counting to date, the Greens have a total of 256,861 votes, while Family First has 55,692.

But according to rough calculations, his final vote will be almost twice that of the Greens' David Risstrom - and comfortably above the quota of 420,720 - once preferences are factored in.

The election of Mr Fielding, who has steadfastly refused to speak to the media until the result is announced, would mean Victoria had elected three Liberal/National, two Labor and one Family First senator to the new parliament.

Family First have benefited from preference swaps that were intended to ensure the third candidate on Labor's ticket, Jacinta Collins, was
re-elected ahead of Mr Risstrom.

The plan backfired disastrously for Labor.

For a few fleeting days after the October 9 election, it appeared Mr
Fielding could have held the balance of power in the Senate.

AAP

Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 09:39 AM

I was listening to ABC radio when the news broke about Barnaby Joyce winning the Coalition's 39th Senate seat.
They broadcast Boswell phoning Howard live to air.

Talking to Howard, Boswell said something like "so now it's open s..." and he stopped and went on to say something else.

One of the reporters present asked him if he had been about to say "open slather" and he said "No I was going to say open...(pause)...sesame"

Bloody oath Ronnie, that's just what you were going to say.