BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)

Subject: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: HuwG
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:32 AM

Here is the BBC's article on the proposed ban, which will be announced tomorrow: Click here. This is a government "white paper" only, and will probably not become legislation which applies to England and Wales for a couple of years. Note that the Scottish Assembly has already introduced a ban in Scotland.

It is proposed that smoking will be banned indoors in all cafes, restaurants, pubs, clubs etc. The only establishments exempt from thiw will be private members' clubs (such as Working Mens' Clubs) where the membership votes to allow smoking, and pubs which do not sell "prepared food" i.e. bar meals. In both situations, smoking will not be allowed "in the bar area", which more precisely means "in the serving counter area".

Anyone who has been following my posts will know that since being made redundant as a computer programmer last year, my main source of income has been work behind a bar during evenings and at weekends. I do not smoke, which I find is rare among bar staff. At times the pub (which was built in the nineteenth century and cannot easily be modified so that any one room or bar can be made smoke-free) can become very smoke-laden indeed. Even one or two players at the Monday night music session they host have sometimes objected to the density of the fug.

From the bar staffs' point of view, it is objectionable to have to clean ashtrays which are absolutely heaped with a slurry of cigarette ends, papers, ash and crisp packets and spilled drink; and as for having to dredge dog-ends out of the channel under the stalls in the gents' ...

(I have another complaint, which is that the smokers are apparently allowed one hour off per shift to indulge their habit, while I have to work flat out from start to finish, but that complaint isn't restricted to pubs.)



On the other hand, lack of the freedom to smoke might turn people, especially some of the better instrumentalists, away from pubs and sessions. Some players I know are so well cured that I can foresee them going "cold turkey" in the mid-session. The pub I have referred to above might well stop serving bar meals, and continue to allow smokers to indulge.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:33 AM

It's already been banned here. I say accomodation, not prohibition!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 03:36 AM

Speaking as someone in a very small minority...I am allergic to cigarette smoke...the ban would be great for me. I used to smoke heavily until 1991.....stopped totally in one day and developed the allergy about 5yrs later.
Smoking does damage health including other peoples so perhaps it would be for the best to ban it in certain public places.
If you "knowingly" damage health in any other way, what happens????
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 03:42 AM

A lot of the smokers I know are very considerate and avoid, where possible, inflicting their smoke on people who don't smoke. Unfortunately, the world is full of smokers who aren't like that. It really makes my blood boil to see Mothers bending over babies and toddlers , puffing their smoke into their children's faces. I've never smoked and I loathe it...the smell of stale smoke on heavy smokers makes me feel sick...I'd rather smell BO. I would love to be able to walk around in a smoke free world.

On the other hand, I also have friends who would love to give up smoking and have tried and tried, but can't. It seems a little unfair to expect them to stop smoking almost everywhere. (Though perhaps less people smoking around them might help them to give up) And then there are those who enjoy their smoke..especially with a drink. Perhaps a better idea would be to have a smoke room in pubs the way they used to do. Then those who want to smoke can go in ther and those who don't can go to the other rooms. Everyone should perhps be given a choice...smokers and non-smokers alike?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 03:43 AM

YAAAYYYYYYYYY!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 04:39 AM

Excellent news it should be a total ban - may seem harsh and not fair to those that smoke BUT it KILLS people.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 05:06 AM

I -AM- a smoker, and I say ban it all!

They said it'd kill the movie theatres when they banned smoking there... it didn't...

They said it'd kill bus travel when then banned smoking there... it didn't...

They said it'd kill air travel when they banned smoking there... it didn't...

They said it'd kill sub-way commuting when they banned smoking there... it didn't...

So f#ck it... the only thing smoking kills, banned or not, is people... People DUMB enough to keep smoking...

Tell ya what... you give ME all the money you'll eventually spend on smokes your whole life, and I'll come to your house and beat you to death with a rusty pipe... the end result is the same... Only you won't offend/take with you, as many people my way.

"harsh and not fair to those that smoke"
As a smoker, I say 'f#ck us!'

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 05:09 AM

Regarding the ban in Scotland, The Telegraph ran a cartoon showing a group of smokers sheltering in the lee of Hadrian's Wall.

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 05:51 AM

Well Clinton...that's probably the best thing I've ever heard you say.

I was trying to be fair, but in my heart of hearts I would love a smoke-free world....and I have too many friends who have died or are dying from smoking related illnesses, not necessarily from smoking themselves. While I wasn't agreeing with a total ban, I will still give a cheer if it comes into being.

Love Lynne



Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 06:06 AM

"Smoking in public" is rather overstating it - there's no suggestion of making it illegal to smoke in most public places, just indoors, and even then there are a fair number of exceptions envisaged.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 06:24 AM

As a smoker - with Clinton all the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: BanjoRay
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 06:55 AM

It would be great not to have to throw all my clothes in the wash after a pub session, and to wake up without coughing.
Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Dead Horse
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 06:56 AM

Will it still be legal between consenting adults? That's what I want to know!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:00 AM

Smoking cost me my voice, so I say HOORAY!!
Clinton, you are right on, man!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Gervase
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:06 AM

Here's another smoker who agrees with Clinton. I've got a filthy addiction and am too weak-willed to kick it without help, and a total ban would certainly help.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:07 AM

1. About to start your meal in a restaurant when some ignorant person decides to light up because they've just finished their meal, or in-between courses.
2. The times I get 15 minutes into a set of songs and I start to lose my singing voice because of inhaling too much stale smoke.
3. Wanting to be sociable but having to go outside for fresh air because my eyes are streaming.
4. Putting a full set of clothes into the wash basket after a quick pint in the local pub.

This list could go on and on. The thing is if people want to smoke then that is their business but it shouldn't spoil the enjoyment of others. Why can't they step outside for 5 minutes like they do at supermarkets and hostpitals to name just a couple of places?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:17 AM

But walking down the street behind someone who is smoking and breathing in the smoke wafting back is not pleasant (or healthy) either.

This year in the Middle Bar in Sidmouth, we had signs up politely asking if people would refrain from smoking in the singing. The reason for this was that two of our well-loved members are ill and cannot spend time in smokey places. Everybody was very good about it with the result that the atmosphere in the bar was much pleasanter than usual, singing was easier and a lot of people who usually lose their voices either partly or entirely in the course of the week, didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 08:17 AM

Having just returned from Ireland for the ssecond time since smoking was banned there is April this year I found the bar's to be much more pleasant places to sit than the bar's back home and as I've just started smoking again after an 8 year abstinence I would welcome the ban to be extended to English bar's

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 08:33 AM

Hooray!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Essex Girl
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 08:44 AM

The government has stated that smoking WILL be banned in restaurants and cafes and not a moment too soon, but did anybody see an article in the papers a couple of weeks back in which a suggestion was made that pubs would be granted a 'smoking licence' if they could show that their ventilation and smoke extractors were adequate? I have never smoked and cannot stand to be in a smoky atmosphere but I do believe in civil liberty and this would seem to be a solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:03 AM

Is fire-breathing to be banned too?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:19 AM

Good!smokers are all ruffians and ne'er do wells in my experience!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:15 PM

"suggestion was made that pubs would be granted a 'smoking licence' if they could show that their ventilation and smoke extractors were adequate"

The told us the same lie... don't believe it... Their ruling will be that NO ventilation system will be 'adequate'... SO if you are a pub owner, don't waste the money trying to 'upgrade'...

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:23 PM

Lynne - If your post isn't justification for everyone pushing for a smoke free singing environment I don't know what is :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:25 PM

If your last post... Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Peace
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:43 PM

People shouldn't smoke around others. That's only polite.

I am a smoker.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: MMario
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:49 PM

I can see a smoke free world - as long as also banned are perfumes, cologne, scented hairspray, incense, "deoderizers" which just mask with a stronger scent; etc etc etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 12:54 PM

Not even close to the same thing MMario...

I've never seen anyone die from hairspray... or incense...

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 01:17 PM

Thta mikght depend whomakes the decision. If it's the local council, publicans are quite freequently leading councillors.

I'd advise buying shares in snuff-manufacturers.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Gervase
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 01:17 PM

MMario has a point, though. There are too many bloody awful ersatz smells in the world, from overdone pot-pouri to room deodorisers and aftershave. One of the better things about leaving London was not having to endure other people's cologne on the tube - I swear some people bathe in the stuff. There are some brands that give me a raging headache, while others merely smell unpleasant.
Basic hygiene should mean that most of us smell bearable, without the need to dose ourselves with industrial quantities of man-made smellies (though, today, I am mainly reeking of diesel after changing the fuel filter on an elderly Land Rover! Come to think of it, I think I prefer diesel to most of what gets sold over the counter...).

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 01:31 PM

This is good news because I like to travel to England, Scotland and Ireland.

I have a mild emphysema from being subjected to tobacco smoke although I never smoked myself. I was injured by others who did.
My rights were denied me to health. Those who smoke don't generally realize the damage they do to others so sometimes it's up to the government to protect citizens from abuse by thoughtless individuals or corporations such as lying tobacco companies.

Hooray for the ban!

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 01:52 PM

The interesting thing is the way that changes in the law always throw up unpredicted social innovations.

I predict that all kinds of shebeens and smokeasies in the houses of inveterate smokers will spring up. I can imagine a situation in which there'll be places where you can go for a drink and there'll be tobacco or cannabis smoked indifferently, whichever you choose. And probably illegal music sessions into the bargain.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 02:11 PM

McG
Whats a shebeen?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Joybell
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 03:41 PM

Bring it on here in Australia too, as fast as possible, I say! Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: DougR
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 04:47 PM

I was surprised how well the ban on smoking in Pubs in Ireland has been. I spoke to a Publican in Clifden, Connemara, who confessed that he was relieved that the law had been passed. Having to work in a smoke filled space day or night becomes a hazard to one's health, either first or second hand.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 05:08 PM

"Shebeen" - an unlicensed (and therefore illegal) drinking place. Originally Irish (of course), but the word migrated to South Africa, and became the common word for such places in Soweto and so forth.

Same as a "speakeasy" really.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 05:36 PM

As a smoker, I have to say that I have little problem with this.

For sure, I will miss finding myself a quiet pub, and sitting reading the newspapers with a beer and a smoke, for a couple of hours, once a week. I'll get used to that though.

The 'nanny state' style of health policies in general does however concern me.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:55 PM

That was not Jacqui, it was I.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:59 PM

no it wan't, it was ed!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: ossonflags
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 03:15 AM

What concerns - and enrages me - is the duplicity of this government.At one hand putting danger signs on cigarette packets. on the other hand expecting millions of pounds revenue.

If they are relly seriouse about peoples health, why not go the whole hog and ban the sale of tobacco?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: treewind
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 03:37 AM

The revenue from tobacco has less value than the nationwide loss of working hours caused by smoking-related disease (mostly bronchitis).

The smoking ban in pubs will apply only if they sell food. There was some twit on the radio last night complaining that publicans who sell food now might have to revert to drink-only establishments or their smoking customers will be driven away by a smoking ban. Has he not noticed that many pubs have already voluntarily banned smoking in their eating area or even totally? Does he think they did that for altruistic reasons? It is a simple commercial decision. Get rid of the smoke and you'll get MORE customers - all the ones who don't smoke, are allergic to it or just don't want to spend the evening getting kippered.

Oh, and noobody yet has brought up one of my favourite quotes on the subject. I don't know who said this first: "A restaurant with a no-smoking area is like a swimming bath with a no-peeing area"

Anahata

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 06:17 AM

It's no secret, I can fart loudly! When I do it next to a smoker and they complain I simply say that 'fairs fair', so to speak. The only downside of 2008's smoking ban is that I'll have to stop eating baked beans. So, just 4 year's flatulence left!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 06:26 AM

NON SMOKERS SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PUBLIC PLACES!

    WHY? Because us smokers pay far more indirect tax than you lot, so we should take precedence!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 06:29 AM

You need to pay more to cover your health care!!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:14 AM

Ted ... sweetie ....... fasten your trousers, you're talking through your arse again

We make a choice to purchase something that we know is heavily taxed, there are many related costs to the nation through ill health, loss of production etc etc and the associated costs of treatment is astronomical

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:19 AM

Smoking is good for you, it puts hares on your chest.
My dad smoked all his life, and he lived to be 52.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:19 AM

I refuse to back down on this point Nicholas (in purple) Non smokers should sling their hooks from pubs, and sit at home knitting lentil vests where they belong.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:31 AM

Why do lentil vests belong at home! I demand equal rights for lentil vests. They should be able to sit in the pub and smoke to their hearts content if they want...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: MBSLynne
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:32 AM

I assume super ted isn't one of the considerate smokers I mentioned before then? He sounds like one of the ones who is determined to make sure we all smoke (by inhaling his second hand stuff) and suffer from the consequent ill-health and possible death because of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking in public to be banned (UK)
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:37 AM

Smoking epidemic

Health Development Agency