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'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -

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jimL 28 Feb 05 - 03:22 AM
Gervase 28 Feb 05 - 04:09 AM
GUEST,David Burbidge 28 Feb 05 - 05:57 AM
GUEST,Goad, Frank 28 Feb 05 - 06:01 AM
GUEST,joanna 28 Feb 05 - 06:37 AM
jimL 28 Feb 05 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,jjoanna 01 Mar 05 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,Isogloss 01 Mar 05 - 03:37 PM
jimL 01 Mar 05 - 05:21 PM
GUEST 01 Mar 05 - 07:04 PM
GUEST,joanna 02 Mar 05 - 03:01 AM
GUEST,joanna 02 Mar 05 - 03:06 AM
jimL 02 Mar 05 - 05:17 AM
GUEST,David Burbidge 02 Mar 05 - 05:55 AM
jimL 02 Mar 05 - 07:29 AM
GUEST 02 Mar 05 - 08:19 AM
GUEST,Isogloss 02 Mar 05 - 04:49 PM
jimL 03 Mar 05 - 05:00 AM
jimL 03 Mar 05 - 07:53 AM
jimL 03 Mar 05 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,Isogloss 03 Mar 05 - 03:41 PM
GUEST,Rob 03 Mar 05 - 05:24 PM
jimL 03 Mar 05 - 05:36 PM
jimL 07 Mar 05 - 06:43 AM
MoorleyMan 07 Mar 05 - 06:51 AM
jimL 07 Mar 05 - 09:31 AM
GUEST,iso-not so glossy 07 Mar 05 - 04:20 PM
GUEST,joanna 07 Mar 05 - 05:13 PM
GUEST,Jim the ex miner 08 Mar 05 - 03:12 AM
jimL 08 Mar 05 - 07:47 AM
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Subject: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 03:22 AM

Barry Coope, Jim Boyes, Georgina Boyes, Ray Hearne, Janet Russell, & "The Roses And Thorns Choir" perform "Hearts of Coal" -

Saturday March 5th 7:30 p.m. Ossett Town Hall
Sunday March 6th 7:00 p.m. Otley Civic Hall
Tickets £7 / £5 ring - 01274 581504 or 01535 600101

I have been taking part in the second rehearsal weekend just gone by, and I have to tell you the choir is fantastic - none of your stylised choral "niceness" but 80 folk voices really giving it all they've got, under the direction of Barry Coope, who really knows how to make things fly.

I really believe that if you're in the area, and you miss it, you'll kick yourselves ...

Tickets as above, and on the door, for either event.

__Music and songs have always played a big part in the life of mining communities. There are reports of miners, men and women,– singing down the pit as they worked almost three hundred years ago. From the 1840's onwards, Yorkshire newspapers reported colliers and their bands marching in procession at galas and demonstrations. And every element of the job, from pick sharpening and winding to the saying that more coal was mined in the bar at the Welfare than ever came
out of the pit - has been captured in song. Hearts of Coal brings together these old and newer songs and combines them with local stories of mining communities to celebrate a unique way of life.__

Jim
www.jimlawton.info/heartsofcoal


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: Gervase
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 04:09 AM

Wish I could be there - Barry certainly knows how to get a good sound out of a choir. He, Jim and Lester ran the Sidmouth Festival Choir and it was a 'hairs standing up on the back of the neck' experience. Sounds like this is going to be unmissable.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,David Burbidge
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 05:57 AM

Hi Jim - I must agree with you here - as a fellow singer in this 80 voice choir, I'm finding it a fantastic experience to sing these songs in such heartfelt harmony. It must be a powerful experience to be in an audience and hear these powerful songs

Last night on a walk up to Rydal caves near Ambleside (where they mined slate instead of coal) I completed the learning of the words for the songs, and realised I'd learnt a lot about mining as well. In the walls of the caves I could see all the holes where they'd drilled for the explosives, and wondered if a triangular bit cut out of the rock was for a jud.

Some of the songs though I'm still wondering what they mean. Like the last verse on We Work the Black Seam: "When you have sunk without a trace/ The Universe will suck me into place?" Is this a reference to nuclear meltdown and the China Syndrome, or the demise of Maggie Thatcher?


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,Goad, Frank
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 06:01 AM

I couldn't agree with you more Jim. From the other side of the choir in the bass section it sounds marvelous. I keep telling myself that the more I sing these pieces the less the emotion will effect me. But it doesn't work. Each time I sing I have to struggle against being choked by the powerful feelings released by these songs and the expression of the sentiments by 80 dedicated voices. It really is that good.

So, if you are wavering over whether to go to see this show, then waver no more and get along to Ossett or Otley this weekend. You won't be disappointed.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,joanna
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 06:37 AM

I have to agree with you , This weekend was just so fantastic the songs are wonderful, and at times, moved (even me) to near tears.I think with the readings and the overall backbone theme the complete show will be most impressive and moving.I for one am proud to be involved in this suberb production, and would like to take this oppertunity to thank Barry, Jim, Georgina and Janet for all there hard work over the past few weeks.
To anyone thinking of going along to see the show dont hesitate you wont be dissapointed.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 08:57 AM

Hello David,

"Some of the songs though I'm still wondering what they mean. Like the last verse on We Work the Black Seam: "When you have sunk without a trace/ The Universe will suck me into place?" Is this a reference to nuclear meltdown and the China Syndrome, or the demise of Maggie Thatcher?"

Hmm - I don't know. When we're talking about traditional song, it's unsurprising when time has mangled the meaning. What *did* Sting have in mind I wonder? I think it's a really great song, but each verse is a little less literal than the last.

Does it mean that the Universe will have a place for those who are truly valuable while the arrogant and self satisfied will sink without trace?

It's a sign of a good song when you have to really chew over the intention of the writer.

Jim


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,jjoanna
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:37 PM

Hi Jim,
                   Ive been asked (on the other thread on this subject) if a CD of the performance is in the offing.Am I correct in thinking Georgina mentioned that the copyrites were too complicated or did I just make that up? I really cant remember just what was said, can you or anyone else remember?

Joanna


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,Isogloss
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 03:37 PM

Joanna me too. I've been dangling on the other thread as well !

I was plan to dig out the songs and who wrote/arranged them. But it would be great if we could offer links to CDs where people might find them. Any starters for 10 ?


Also did anyone see Faith last night on the Box ? It made me angry and very sad in equal measure. Though i thought i was delighted to see the history told from the womens point of view.

Isobel (aka isogloss)


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 05:21 PM

Hello Joanna,

Think what was actually said was copyright too difficult to record the performances - particularly for the spoken elements, while the recordings we made aren't studio quality - maybe in a hundred years someone will find one of the CDs and "discover" the "lost masterpiece"!! So they are just a memento for the participants, and I guess useful training material for the future.

Cheers Jim


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 07:04 PM

HI Jim,

re.the meaning of songs, you say: "It's a sign of a good song when you really have to chew over the intention of a the writer."

I agree with you here - and it's something I've always liked in Jim Boyes' songs, those layers of different meanings in the same song. But I wonder if meaning always lies with "the intention of the writer."

I remember reading a Chinese cracker which said: "What I say, what I mean and what you hear and three different things."

I heard David Hare once talking about his play Pravda which he wrote as a satire on the newspaper industry, and when it was performed in English it was generaly done like that, as a dark comedy. But he said that when he was in Holland he went to see a production of the play in Dutch and it was produced as a very serious political and philosophical work. At the end the audience gave it a standing ovation, and he was amazed that something he had written could be so completely misunderstood and yet appreciated so greatly. He concluded that once he had published a work it took on a life of its own and developed meanings which were no longer his.

Maybe Sting's song is like that - and that in our choir there are 80 different meanings to what those lines are about.

I am sometimes surprised that while many people won't sing songs in other languages if they don't know what the words mean, few people seem to question or ponder the meanings of the words in songs in their own language - though I could understand one or two people saying that they didn't want to think too deeply about the meaning of the words in Amazing Love in case they found that they couldn't sing it!

I've so enjoyed learning these songs from Hearts of Coal and it's a real pleasure to sing them with so many fine voices, and so much sincerity in the singing. And I'm really looking forward to hearing the other bits which we've not heard yet with Barry and the others.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,joanna
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 03:01 AM


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,joanna
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 03:06 AM

Hi Isobel,
                      Yes I did see Faith It was interesting, But just missed for me. Not enough about the history and too much sex and violence I found it a little frustrating that they missed a great oppertunity to tell youger people just what did happen 20 years ago in this country. Just my personal opinion though. Joanna


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 05:17 AM

Isobel Isogloss eh?

You really took that idea to heart :-) - but hang on didn't Donovan write a song about you? - Oh no er, Jennifer, Juniper ...

"We Work The Black Seam" - Sting - on Album "The Dream of the Blue Turtles" -1985. I suspect that will be not at all like our 80 voice arrangement, but the lyrics are freely available on the web.

When I've time I'll think further.

and I should say, there's a nice poster - original artwork by David Williams of Silsden Singers, and graphic design by Tiny Taylor of The Demon Barbers....

Here

Jim


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,David Burbidge
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 05:55 AM

Isobel, Joanna - I don't have the television at home so didn't see the programme you're talking about. What was it? Faith who? Curious.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:29 AM

Hello David ...
bit of info from the BBC website - I didn't see it unfortunately ..

Faith
Mon 28 Feb, 9:00 pm - 10:00 pm 60mins

It's 1984, and communities located around the dwindling coal industry are struggling to come to terms with pit closures.

The story centres on two sisters, Michelle and Linda, and their husbands, Gary and Paul. Gary, a striking miner, feels let down by his brother-in-law Paul, a local policeman. Then Michelle finds herself wanting to get more involved in the miners' struggle.

J


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:19 AM

Thanks Jim - is that what it was. By the way, have you noticed that Google, in their wisdom, think we might be interested in contacting John T.Boyd Company "mining consultants to a diverse international client base." I'm tempted to invite them to Hearts of Coal.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,Isogloss
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:49 PM

For those who were asking these are the songs, sorry not sure of where you'd get to hear them other than live....hint hint... follow thread back for details of the two performances this weekend. Hope my sining chums will fill in the gaps.

Joanne, agree re the 'drama' hooks use in Faith. But still was pleased to see it screened, and hear that the Tories though it was too biased !

Hearts of Coal ~ Songs to be performed by the Chorus.........even more in the show by talented soloist and speakers........

1. "We Work The Black Seam" - Sting - on Album "The Dream of the Blue Turtles" -1985

2. 'Six jolly Miners' Collected by G Boyes, trad arrangement by Barry Coope ~ CD ? (C Voice Publishing)

3. 'Unity' by John Tamms, arrangement Barry Coope (Topic records).

4. The Celebrated Working Man' Trad Ammerican/NE England. Arrangement Barry Coope ~ CD ?

5. 'The Old Miner' Trad. Arrangement Barry Coope ~ CD ?

6. 'Amazing Love' Hymm Charles Wesley

7. 'Hush My Babe' Izzac Watts arr. Barry Coope (C Voice Publishing) CD ?

8. 'Remeberance Day' words, John Tamms, to Tune of There is a green hill far away,, by William Horsley

9. 'Coal Not Doal' Words, Kay Sutcliffe Tune. John Goss arr. Barry Coopee. CD ?

10. A miners life is like a sailor words, George Evans 1951 Tune, Railway to Heaven (tune on Johnny Cash CD ?)


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 05:00 AM

Excellent, Isogloss ...

2. 'Six jolly Miners' Collected by G Boyes, trad arrangement by Barry Coope ~ CD ?
Hindsight (No Masters NMCD11) Coope Boyes and Simpson,

but see :-

http://www.thecopperfamily.com/songs/collected/six.html

more later - I've got quite a lot of CD info ...

Jim


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 07:53 AM

some more to add to Isogloss's list

3. 'Unity' by John Tams, arrangement Barry Coope (Topic records).
JOHN TAMS "UNITY" Topic TSCD508 -

"(Unity is) one of the very finest records of the last century. A timeless expression of stories, people and deep emotion...songs of rare quality performed exquisitely." fROOTS

4. The Celebrated Working Man' Trad Ammerican/NE England. Arrangement Barry Coope ~ CD =Topic TSCD 465
5. 'The Old Miner' Trad. Arrangement Barry Coope ~ CD =
Topic TSCD450 "No More to the Dance" Silly Sisters
TSCD473. "A Short History of..." John Kirkpatrick

Jim


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 10:42 AM

By the way, perhaps I should say that the songs which Isogloss has posted are only the choir's parts of the show, and are surrounded by a lot of other spoken and sung material - the choir's songs are in fact punctuation to the stories which the performance tells ...


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,Isogloss
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 03:41 PM

Thanks Jim

What a resource.

Yes agree re the other talented bits in the show, think i put that on the other thread !


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,Rob
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 05:24 PM

I'm told there's a great rendition of 'The old miner' by The Silly Sisters on either 'silly sisters' or 'no more to the dance' albums.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 05:36 PM

To continue the IsoGlossary ha ha


7. 'Hush My Babe' Izac Watts arr. Barry Coope (C Voice Publishing) CD =
No Masters Coop - NMCD50 "What WeSing"

8. 'Remembrance Day' words, John Tamms, to Tune of There is a green hill far away,, by William Horsley
No Masters Coop - NMCD3 "Funny Old World"

9. 'Coal Not Doal' Words, Kay Sutcliffe Tune. John Goss arr. Barry Coope.
No Masters Coop - NMCD3 "Funny Old World"


10. A miners life is like a sailor words, George Evans 1951 Tune, Railway to Heaven (tune on Johnny Cash CD ?)

STUC2 "True and Bold" Dick Gaughan - amongst others

best I can do - most I've heard, and are great versions, some I don't know. Want to here Dick's ....

Lets hope it don't snow :-)

Jim


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 06:43 AM

Well, even though I says it myself, it was truly wonderful, we had a good turn-out at Ossett, which was a new venue for us, and had suffered from a forced move from Pontefract, and we had a complete sell-out at Otley, for which much thanks to those who came.

From the back of the choir it's hard to say what the whole show was like, but I *know* the singing was outstanding - "gobsmackingly good" was one reaction...

Afterwards about 50 of us went to the music-friendly Manor pub in Otley where we reprised several of the songs and many another till we couldn't sing anymore.

For those who missed it there is another performance, this time with The Rolling Stock Company as the choir, at "The National " in April ..

Jim


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 06:51 AM

Hear hear, Jim - the Ossett performance was superb, the choir had a really tremendous presence and the solo performers were excellent (specially Ray Hearne). Wish I could've made Otley too (mutter mutter!)....
Big congrats to all involved, most of all Georgina for getting it all together.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 09:31 AM

Thanks MoorleyMan - Ray is a treasure not well known outside Yorkshire - there's a bit about him on the "no masters cooperative" website here.


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,iso-not so glossy
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 04:20 PM

So true fab choir, even more wondeful soloists and great organisation by Jim L et al.

I am so glad it was good for the punters (thanks Morley man)because we had such fun doing it. Can't wait for the next creative endeavour for the 'Roses and Thorns' and our fabulous leaders... there must surely be one......

I am 'not so glossy' today on account of the post performance fizzy pop that raced around my empty stomach on the back of the 'endolphins' ( a 'coope-ism' oh and the lager in the pub, but what a great session !!

Did our US chums get enough lnks for the song ? Anyone wha can get to the next performances (see above) go and check out the great songs from the soloists too !


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,joanna
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 05:13 PM

Hiya everyone,    WELL WHAT A GREAT WEEKEND!!!!!
          The Hearts of Coal went extreamly well we were all buzzing on Sunday night, what fantastic audience that was too they really couldnt stop applading us (great).
               As for the after show do at the pub that was just brilliant lots of singing and fun.
Ill really miss all the Roses and Thorns Choir and sincerly hope we can get togrther for more simalar things.
               

                LOVE TO ALL OF YOU   JOANNAxxxxxxxx


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: GUEST,Jim the ex miner
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:12 AM

I was at Osset what can I say but wow it was excellent!


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Subject: RE: 'Hearts of Coal' - Coope, Boyes et al -
From: jimL
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 07:47 AM

Thanks for the nice comments, and to everyone who took part, and to the two brilliant audiences .. I just want to do it all again ... I met some lovely people and had a great time, and you're right Joanna the pub session was fantastic - thanks to the landlord of the Manor, Paul, and his wife, and to the regulars for putting up with us. Boy did we sing ;-)

I'm sure your gloss will be back soon Iso-notso ...

the website has been updated.

Jim


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