BS: Are we anti-Irish?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:06 PM

you might like to note that NI Protestants are *not* British, by the very definition of "Great Britain" comprising England, Scotland and Wales. This may make Ian Paisley and his merry men unhappy, but he's a racist wanker, so fuck him and the horse he rode in on. (Grab)

I disagree (not with your evaluation of IP, but:), Paisley is right and you are wrong regarding "British". As an adjective it is used for people from the UK including Northern Ireland, like in 'British passport' or 'British government'.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:09 PM

Dave, there's another thread you can start. Do people that live in the Six Counties consider themselves British? Hell, maybe we should just discuss it here since we're having so much fun! :)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: s&r
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:10 PM

Epona - I refer your post to me (above). Most of what I read here seems full of bitterness, posturing and general extreme polarisation with no meeting of minds.

For myself again I feel no anti Irish bias or prejudice. I love the country and its people. I wish the North of all persuasions peace and a resolution to a problem that seems intransigent.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:11 PM

Helloooo, planet Curator.... the army's leaving because the IRA has ended it's armed campaign.... helloooo is there anyone home?

I'm delighted to hear that you're not leaving Ireland by the way. I've been reading some of your comments on other threads and have decided that you are a bit of a dick-head.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:17 PM

Stu, that wish of yours is one of the nicest things I've read on this thread and though it's not a wish shared by all, I hope someday it will be. Cheers.

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: s&r
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:27 PM

Thanks for that Epona. I have an Irish son in law and two Irish grandsons, which is why we spend a lot of time in Ireland.

Wherever we have been we have found nice people with the time to spend with us: we have shared music and laughter.

I don't understand the Northern situation well enough to comment sensibly. I suspect that most people there share the same hopes I do, that everyone will move to a peaceful resolution.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:39 PM

If you haven't heard the wonderful Antony John Clarke, Epona, I never tire of posting one of my favourite lyics of his here -

I want to eat at the same table
Break the same bread
March down the same streets
Hear the same bands.
Sing the same songs.
Say the same prayers
Together we can mend the broken years.

And it is only together that we can mend them.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:44 PM

... and as we all know, Oooohh-Aaargh, the RA ended it's armed struggle on condition that your mob went back through Belfast Lough..., the way they came in

Remember the GFA?

That was all the 'RA's doing.

Forgotten already?

Ooh Ahh, up the 'RA (I say),
Ooh Aah, up the 'RA

Great little name you got there...

The only bitterness I see is coming from the British amonst us, s&r

Anybody want to define 'British'?
Ooh-Ahh?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 02:45 PM

My friend Ooh-Aah2
Glad you took the time to sound me out, please feel free to call me names, no problem with that, just a die hard Republican that knows his facts and loves play time with your type. I would guess you never offered your life to many cause, would I be right ? And I think you don't like Provo's, am I right again ?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 02:46 PM

Wolfgang I admire you. Great post,excellent in fact. Always a pleasure to see your name appear.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 03:00 PM

And don't forget dickheads, Curator. He doesn't like those either. ;)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 02:30 AM

Sounds like our professional Paddies are starting to simmer nicely...

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 02:34 AM

"but if they are saying something else, in some code that an American of Irish and English (and French and German) descent cannot understand, than please educate me"

Apologies, art, I thought you were talking in general (the 'than' got me...).

However "The question posed was not whether individuals who are Irish or who have Irish ancestry think that there is now or ever was anti-Irish bias."

Their stories are entirely relevant, however, art. Too long have the 'British' been policing themselves on issues such as these. If this thread gets people to examine that which they throw off the tongue without examination, I think we will have gotten somewhere.

Interesting story about the bees, Guest.
I know one about wasps

Graham.
The 'fairly scientific' study was simply pulling up all the Irish threads and reading them.
Yes, we did that.
'Anonymous' guests still are posters in my eyes, despite what the general concensus among mudcatters is concerned.
'Trolls' in such circumstances still show an anti-Irish Bias, and may well be members, as you can I'm sure apprecxiated.
I do not disregard their post, just because they don't identify themselves.

What I have seen here on this thread and the 'Get Loyalist weapons' thread is a handful of people who do feel that the Nationalist Community in the Sick Counties have been given the short end of the stick over the years, and who do distance themselves from the actions their Governments have taken over this time.

I realise that this particular thread could just turn into a talking shop, where everybody agrees that those who post to it are free of any bias, and then we all go off to get on with our day.

I know that people aren't going to come in here and say "Yes, count me in with the Anti-Irish, please...."

We want to DISCUSS my contention.
We want to EXPLORE why the term 'British' is relevant to some people's sense of belonging.

We want to hear what IRISH people have experienced.

Because while NOBODY I KNOW hates the 'English', 'Scots' or the 'Welsh' (in the context of hating someone because of their place of birth), MOST PEOPLE I KNOW hate the 'British'

Why is that?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 02:48 AM

If you hate a large group of people without differentiation it is called 'racism' mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 02:59 AM

Oh we differentiate, Ooh-Ahh2

That is precisely the point.

Where abouts do you reside within it's four walls, for instance?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 03:55 AM

Is this one of those Zen questions?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 03:56 AM

I did a search on 'British Race' (just for the craic...), and I got 'Silverstone', and something about a 10km walk in London. A little bit about Kenneth Clarke, but nothing remotely Briton

What British race would you be talking about, there, Ooh-Ahh? This one?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:01 AM

Very clever, if you're about 5 years old. I'm a Primary School teacher and hear these smart-alec excuses for mindless prejudice quite often. Your answer is about as convincing as 'I can't have called him a black bastard because look, he's brown'.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:02 AM

"Is this one of those Zen questions?"

No.

Just wondering where you were born?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:12 AM

Aah-ahh, Ooh-aah, If being 'black' was a state of mind, and being 'brown' was the visual observation, the 'bastard' epithet would only be in the mindset of the former.

People who observe without the need for adjectives or superlatives tend to be more balanced.

But, sure a 5 year old kid could tell you that

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:15 AM

What RACE am I being RACIST to if I say I hate the British, Ooh-Aah?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:19 AM

Three tiny posts on the trot, are you trying to sneak up on the 200th before Leadfingers gets up?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:22 AM

Because while NOBODY I KNOW hates the 'English', 'Scots' or the 'Welsh' (in the context of hating someone because of their place of birth), MOST PEOPLE I KNOW hate the 'British'

Ahhh - So the light begins to dawn upon me. Takes a while to get through this Gnomish skull but it gets there eventualy:-) Is what you are saying that it is not the peoples of a particular land you and your compatriates hate but the people who believe they are 'British' because they relate in some way to the old British Imperial rule? If that is the case why did you not say so in the first place? Oh - sorry - silly me. I guess it was because the discussion was about the average Brit being anti-Irish. Not the average Irishman being anti-Brit. I must have got it wrong somewhere;-)

Anyhow, that aside, if I am right I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly. I just think the wording could have been more precise. If you were to say, for instance, that the average British Imperialist is anti-Irish - Agreed. But how many Britons (ie denizens of England, Scotland and Wales) are Imperialists nowadays? None that I know. Perhaps it is more rife in Ireland where Loyalists, such as the mad minister himself, seem to hang on to the last vestiges of the empire like the rabid dogs they are. If you are measuring the whole of Britain (the citizenship, not the idea) by their performance I believe you may need to rethink how you are measuring the 'average Brit'.

If, as I suggested very early on, we had decided what you meant by the term 'average Brit' we could have saved a lot of time and effort. Hope we have cleared it up now. Have we?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 04:37 AM

Thanks ted. Nice for you to join us.

"If, as I suggested very early on, we had decided what you meant by the term 'average Brit' we could have saved a lot of time and effort

I wanted to see how subliminal the term 'Brit' is, Dave, in the psychological make-up of the average English person.
I, and the rest of the lads (and lassies) knew what starting point were were working from.

I think we just wanted to see when the penny would drop.

Please note also, that I think 'British' to be an overlay designed years ago to keep their individual citizens 'Nationalism-free' (in the Scots, Welsh, Irish instances, for instance)

The English people, on the other hand, have always acquiesced in the term; a lot without quite realising what the definition of this 'over group' is.

It is one of these terms that reach into the past, and instil a sense of superiority with one, in a way that 'English' just doesn't do.

Here we go....

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:08 AM

Tut, tut, Tiocfaidh! So it was just a test to see how long it would take me to realise that you didn't mean 'British', you meant 'British'. I am very highly honoured indeed to have all this attention lavished upon me. Little did I think when I got up that morning long ago I would have stumbled into your subtle but deadly trap. Little did I realise that when the term 'the average Brit is anti-Irish' was used it was just a psycological test to see who would realise that the phrase 'average Brit' did not mean that at all. Yes, certainly too subtle for me. Caught me out fair and square:-)

But tell me this though. Have we actualy decided if the average citizen of England, Scotland and Wales is anti-Irish? In my small mind I thought this discussion was about that. Can you admit yet that we are not or are there still more bombshells to be released..?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:13 AM

Sorry - Forgot to add that if the veracity of my last paragraph is in doubt may I repeat my opening lines of the thread.

On another thread it has been stated categoricaly that the 'average Brit' is anti-Irish.

Is this true?

I am British and I am not anti anyone. No-one I know is anti anyone. Not by race anyway!

Now, can I ask the question again with particular emphasis on the not by race bit?:-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:16 AM

No, Tiocfaidh, but for you I'm beginning to suspect I might make an exception!

For the record, I am a Yorkshireman with Scottish, French Jewish and Irish ancestors (my paternal Grandmother was a Herley). I am English because Yorkshire is in England, British because that's what it says on my passport, European because I believe that it is high time that nationalism was laid to rest along with tribalism (and, I could add, atheist because the same can be said of religion).

I have no sympathy with the likes of Paisley. I believe that the partition of Ireland is yet another example of post-imperial residual cockups (cf Iraq, Palestine, Cyprus, Punjab, Chechnya, Yugoslavia, Kryzgistan etc) which are not unique to the British Empire.

However, the solution to all the partitions or artificial amalgamations of countries or regions that cause strife in the world is not to blow up soldiers, policemen, small children or anyone else. I believe the answer is to listen to the 99.99% of the populations who want nothing more than to live their lives in peace and reasonable comfort, and close our ears to the 0.01% of criminals, idealogues, "priests" and politicians who foment discord to advance their own narrow, bigoted agenda, whether this goes by the name of republicanism, protestantism, Islam or whatever.

Alan

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:25 AM

"Have we actualy decided if the average citizen of England, Scotland and Wales is anti-Irish?

Well, we haven't gone down the Scottish and Welsh paths, just yet, Dave. But if we examine the term 'British', we may not need to.

I wasn't 'testing' you, by the way, or otherwise 'playing silly games' (a pre-empt for anyone who wishes to sidestep the discussion again...), but it was/is interesting to see how the term gets thrown about by those who aren't totally aware of it's connotations...., and those who are in no doubt as to it's meaning.

This is the premise, after all.

The 'Irish Unionist' is 'British'.
The 'English Unionist' is 'British'.
Isn't 'British', Unionist, in that case?

And if one equals the other, does the term not subjugate the sub-group one comes from (i.e. Scot, Welsh, Irish, Manx, Cornish.......)?

Is it not 'anti-Irish' by definition?
Is the average not somewhere between 'apathetic, and downright hostile'?

Am I allowed to say quod erat demonstrandum, now?

Or is there a more Politically Correct way of defining British, these days?

;=)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:32 AM

"However, the solution to all the partitions or artificial amalgamations of countries or regions that cause strife in the world is not to blow up soldiers, policemen, small children or anyone else"

No other road was available, Alan.
All of what you describe happened because no one tried to address our grieviences.

No-one cared about the Nationalists.
You have to admit that.

The Armed Struggle worked, Lanfranc. That is not prejudice, anti-Englishness, or anything else.

It is a cool statement of fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Kenneth Ingham
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:47 AM

Lanfrank - for the record. You are a total WANKER.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:48 AM

I have been asking myself am I really anti British ? Answer no. I have spent time in England, Scotaland and Wales and have to say those I met were great people. Just like the rest of us, paying bills, keeping the roof over our heads and moaning about the weather. As a Republican I expect understanding for my cause, just as many in Britain wish to live free from the fear of scenes such as last month in London. If I was asked am I anti British policy in Ireland, then yes I am. I resent my lands under crown rule. As I said we are all very much the same as people. The British still talk about how they feared and fought against an army/government of occupation sixty years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:49 AM

"Have we actualy decided if the average citizen of England, Scotland and Wales is anti-Irish?

Simple question.

Well, we haven't gone down the Scottish and Welsh paths, just yet, Dave. But if we examine the term 'British', we may not need to.

Political answer.

Can I say something in latin as well? When I learn to spell it?

Cheers

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:51 AM

Thanks for a modicum of sense Curator. I have spent time in England, Scotaland and Wales and have to say those I met were great people. Just like the rest of us, paying bills, keeping the roof over our heads and moaning about the weather Just what I have been trying to say.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 05:52 AM

... sorry ted...
... though do feel free to contribute some more of your scintillating sacrasm and rapid repartée...

"Not by race anyway!"

It's a different discussion, Dave.
I'm am not putting 'racism' tags on the Anti-Irishness.

Let's start at seeing why 'British' is so important so some people (passport entries notwitstanding)

"I believe the answer is to listen to the 99.99% of the populations who want nothing more than to live their lives in peace and reasonable comfort, and close our ears to the 0.01% of criminals, idealogues, "priests" and politicians who foment discord to advance their own narrow, bigoted agenda, whether this goes by the name of republicanism, protestantism, Islam or whatever."

The 99.99% have a tendency to elect the 0.01%, Alan.
Yourselves included, as shown by the intransigence of successive British Governments over the years as regards 'The Irish Problem'

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 06:06 AM

Look, Dave, it's all down to the understanding of what 'British' is.

The term has gone into circulation to include people who do not subscribe to the actions their Government perform in their name.

I do not refer to these people as 'Brits', even if they do so themselves.

I'm referring to the 'Brits'; that other shower of supremacists 'with an abnormal Britannia rules the waves gene'.

Whether they are Scottish, Welsh, English makes no difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 06:26 AM

.... I'll make it easier...

I do not think the average citizen of England, Scotland, and Wales is anti-Irish. Ok?

I do believe however that a certain percentage of the population of those countries define their Britishness according to an ideal that is, or should be defunct in the modern World.

I also know that Protestant shipyard workers have exactly the same mortgage worries, etc. that Nationalists now do, and yet I am not I am not anti-Protestant.

I am very careful (always have been) about what I hate and why I hate it.

To be honest, I hate nothing, or no-one.

I just despair of symbols.

And the average English person can hold the key to that.

If they, too, examine the meaning of the term

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 06:28 AM

I'm am not putting 'racism' tags on the Anti-Irishness

And I hate nothing apart from racism and the French;-)

At the risk of repeating myself, have we actualy decided if the average citizen of England, Scotland and Wales is anti-Irish? By all means feel free to start another thread on what constitutes British.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 06:35 AM

... but the question is, Dave, is the average Brit anti-Irish?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:18 AM

Seeing as I have already said if you want to define what an average Brit is feel free to start another thread I would rather you answer the question "have we actualy decided if the average citizen of England, Scotland and Wales is anti-Irish?".

The thread title is 'Are we anti-Irish' after all. I was the originator I think I can safely define 'we' as the average citizen of England, Scotland and Wales. I do consider myself such.

I think I can safely say that we are not.

After the statement "MOST PEOPLE I KNOW hate the 'British'", however, can we also safely say that the average Irishman is anti-British? With your definition of 'British' being not one who lives on the UK mainland but one who sticks to the remnants of British Imperialism can we also presume that the average Irishman holds the same opinion? Therefore is it true to say that the average Irishman hates a group of bigots who live in the past?

If so we are in total agreement and must begin to wonder what we are discussing...

:D

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:24 AM

Sorry, should have added to 'the average Irishman hates a group of bigots who live in the past'. So does the average Englisman, Scotsman and Welshman:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:35 AM

Lads
Maybe the word Generalisation fits in somewhere ? Whilst walking the streets of Ireland and being stopped by British soldiers, or seeing my home searched or listening to British ministers telling whats best for me in their view, I do tend to hold a viewpoint. Whilst living in Britain among working class that either don't give a toss about the situation over the water or welcome my sort into their lives, I hold another viewpoint. We are all guilty of this. I do agree with Tiocfaidh, In Ireland they are British. Did you think I was going to ask a soldier where he came from ? or do you think he would of told me ? It's just like here in Ireland. There are many law abiding peace loving people that don't care about politics at all, and then there are bastards like me !

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:39 AM

Yes, Dave, you started the thread, but the premise was not correct.

You started it after I said the 'average Brit is at least as anti-Irish as the average Unionist'

I have been debating that, and I've been waiting for you (... and the rest...) to do so, as well.

MOST PEOPLE I KNOW, means, most people I know, Dave.
I speak neither for, nor on behalf of, the 'average Irish person'.
That you could start a thread on, if the whim overtakes you.

So are you saying that the average Brit is Anti-Irish, or wha?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:41 AM

You posted while I was writing, Curator.

That is the difference I'm talking about

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:47 AM

Thanks again, Curator. Generalisation is the term I would use as well! Average-Brit is far too much of a generalisation to have any meaning whatsoever. The British that you and Tiocfaidh have come across in Ireland are undoubtably as anti-Irish as they come. But my point is that this does NOT constitute the 'average Brit'. There are 60 million of us for heavens sake. The ones that stop you on the street, search your homes and tell you it is for your own good are a tiny minority of those.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 07:59 AM

Yes, Dave, you started the thread, but the premise was not correct.

WOW! Now have I not only been trapped into using the term Brit as a subliminal message to keep the population under control but I also do not know why I started the thread. I am most impressed by your psycho-analytical prowess:-) Is there good money in it btw? I may take it up myself if so...

Seriously though - I'm off for a while, incognito, (Well, in Crawley actualy which is near enough...) so I had better put my money where my mouth is. You ask 'So are you saying that the average Brit is Anti-Irish, or wha?' It is a straightforward question and I will answer it as such. No, the average Brit is NOT anti-Irish. There is of course a rider to it (how did you guess?). There is no such thing as an average Brit!

Perhaps you would now answer my strightforward question.

Have we actualy decided if the average citizen of England, Scotland and Wales is anti-Irish?.

And even more straightforward. Are we?

Hope to check back in on Thursday night or Friday morning at the latest so keep it going, Lads and Lasses:-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 08:02 AM

The 'British' that The Curator and I have come across here, ("... undoubtably as anti-Irish as they come." - you making generalisations for me...)Dave, is the mindset I'm talking about.

The average 'upholder of the Union'.

'Britishness' may mean many things to many people; one of the things I was hoping to explore here, rather than start another thread.... (had you titled the thread 'Are the British Anti-Irish', we may have gotten there quicker...)

I have no objection to a 600+ post thread.

Could make for interesting reading...

.... yet

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 08:03 AM

As you are no doubt aware I live in the North of Ireland. The series of failed British ministers that come across to us always use the term British. It's British army, British rule of law, British Government and British everything. We hear the word. Yes that word British. I can see where Dave is coming from, he doesn't like being tarred with the same brush. You are proud of your nationality, fair play to you. And Tiocfaidh I don't know if you live in Ireland or did, but I would imagine with your vast knowledge you must be either. I not only see your point I share it. We get the word spoon feed to us, so you can all see why this thread is at the point it is.Hope this makes sense ! Stil missing my old mate Ooh-Aah2 though, he's bound to kick me in the balls about this somehow.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 08:09 AM

"Have we actualy decided if the average citizen of England, Scotland and Wales is anti-Irish"

Don't know about you, Dave, but I will refer you to the answer I gave some moments ago (as all the great politicians say...)

at 06:26 AM, to be precise.

Enjoy yourself in Crawley.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 08:11 AM

Nice part of the world, weather looks to be good in far south for next seven days

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 05 - 08:53 AM

Ha Ha! Fooled you - I needed to get back home and pack a toothbrush before I set off for the Wild South and couldn't resist looking in once more time! I am off, honest, SOON. Don't tell the boss I ain't gone yet:-)

Thanks, Tiocfaidh, I had not indeed seen your answer of 6:26 and that is the only answer I could have wanted realy! Very good of you to say it.

Now, seeing as I am realy off this time, I can indeed leave the thread to get on with Britishness in all it's (ex)glory. Quite happy to kick you off in fact.

It's about time the term was dropped. It has nothing but negative connotations across the globe. It harks back to the time when the sun never set etc. I am not, never have been and never will be a Brit. I am parochialy Mancunian and globaly human. All the bits in between are made up by other people wanting to rule my life. The terms 'nigger' and 'yid' are very fortunately now things of the past. Lets make sure that the same happens to brit. Except of course in song where anything goes;-)

Cheers

DtG