Serious Voice Problem - Help Required

Subject: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,It takes a worried man -
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 08:34 AM

I have had a voice problem for about the last twelve months.
I average about three to four gigs every week and usually do two one hour spots.

It seems like I am developing "stage fright" or something. I don't get nervous before gigs and I usually put on a reasonable show when I get going. For the first half hour my voice seems to dry up and I strain to reach notes and really struggle sometimes to get a note out. I have the breath in my lungs, but it's stuggling to get out. Sweat pours out of me and I find that I'm getting more self conscious.

Of course the more I worry about it, the worse it gets. I try not to think about it. While I'm singing I will read the posters on the wall, count the letters of the words I'm singing, think about what I had for dinner etc! I'll tell the audience that I am just getting over a cold. I have a pint of weak beer to lubricate my throat - I just take tiny sips - a pint will last me all night.

After about half an hour I reckon I must relax. I sound a bit better, therefore I worry less and then things improve more. If people join in with the chorus or get up for a dance I think I must feel that I'm doing ok and my voice will get back to normal quicker.

I feel that I'm doing serious damage in that first half hour. My throat hurts from all the straining.

I'm worried. It's my only form of income. I'm pretty fully booked for this year, but again, I'm wonder about next year.

Help.
PS I'm usually a pretty confident sort of person!!

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 08:40 AM

Have you tried Alexander technique?

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: kendall
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 08:46 AM

Get thee to an E.N.T. forthwith!
It sounds like dysphonia, totally treatable.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,GUEST,It takes a worried man -
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 10:12 AM

Never heard of the "Alexander technique" but have just done a search on Google and there seems to plenty about it without saying exactly what it is. (I didn't read all the results)
Can you recommend any sites?

Got and appointment with E.N.T. in about three weeks or so.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 12:09 PM

Bottled water and Vocalzones. Also start with songs that are easy to sing.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 12:50 PM

The problem may be a relaxation/anxiety thing--however, you may be one of many, many, singers who never learned to sing the "right way"(meaning in a way that gives you optimal voice control, and at the same time, doesn't strain your voice)--If you're making a living by singing, and have never had any vocal coaching at all, you may want to look into it--which is to say, read up, ask around, etc and consider your options(not"find the first idiot that comes along claiming to be a vocal coach and give them your money and do every damned thing they say")--

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: BB
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 02:25 PM

Watch the Vocalzones - have too many and they can make problems worse. I use Proctor's Pinelyptus pastilles, which are soothing without being harsh.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 02:26 PM

One of the major problems for folk performers is that the venues generally don't have dressing rooms where the artist can warm up the voice with vocal exercises. Most pros go on stage cold and that can cause problems. I myself am having problems with central heating in the winter which dries out the room and therefore my throat.I always sing better in the summer. Also I have slight asthma which you should check out. A blast on my nebuliser, two vocalzones and WARM water help a lot. Cold beer is a killer as is ice in water. Also, I take it there's no smoking at these gigs?

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 07:38 PM

Guest, it takes a worried man.
I am an osteopath and recommend Alexsander technique to my patients. It was developed by a guy called Alexander (sorry, don't know his first name) who was a professional singer and had problems similar to those you describe.
He developed a form of posture rehabilitation and exercise which improved his performance no end.
Don't know the Web address offhand, but there is a controlling UK body which will give you more details.
Certainly Alexander technique has worked for at least three folk singers I know.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 08:19 PM

I know nothing about the Alexander Technique, but what I've gleaned looking at a couple of web sites, I'd say that it looks well worth investigating—which I intend to do forthwith.

In the meantime, I concur with the advice to make an appointment with an otolaryngologist (ear, nose, and throat doctor). Then, pending what the doctor says, look up a good voice teacher (the doctor may even be able to recommend one) and take some singing lessons.

I assume that you have not had any formal voice training ('scuse me if I'm wrong, but nevertheless. . . .). A good voice teacher can show you breathing techniques that will not only support your voice, but help to make stage jitters pretty much a thing of the past. Also, the teacher can check out the way you sing and spot any flaws in your vocal technique (and anyone who sings has a "vocal technique" whether they know it or not) that could be causing you trouble, and show you how to correct them.

You don't have to take years and years worth of lessons. Just enough to develop a sound basic technique that will help you preserve your vocal health and keep on singing well into old age. And don't worry. Taking some voice lessons will not make you sound like an opera singer. There are lots of folks out there who would like to be opera singers and wish all they had to do was take lessons. Unless the vocal apparatus you were born with has the potential of developing into an operatic type of voice, it just ain't gonna happen.

Good luck!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 10:00 PM

Get rid of the beer. Alcohol dries the throat. (So do chocolate and caffeine.)

I hope you get good help from the ENT doctor.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,J C
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 04:28 AM

As people have already said, relaxation seems to be your main TECHNICAL problem rather than the voice itself. Tension can play havoc with the voice and can do long term damage. There are numerous relaxation techniques you can try to solve that one. The ones MacColl devised for the Critics Group always worked for me, and once mastered, could be gone through in a few minutes. The simple act of dropping your shoulders (which, with me, always rose to ear-level when I was tense) works wonders.
However, if you are reading the posters while you are singing, I would suggest that your problem is not technical, but lies in your concentration and your involvement with your songs. Perhaps this is the source of your problems which you need to work on.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 08:08 AM

Dear Worried man,
                Its seems to me that its a plain old panic attack.Get it checked just the same.These come out of the blue and unless addressed will crop up at the same place,same time etc.if you accept that this may happen it lessens the fear of it ,hopefully reducing its symptoms.The symptoms will seem more to you,bet the people you are singing to dont even know!It only seems that you cant breath properly,but you really can!
                     
                      hope it helps-DONT let it stop yer singing!

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,Maureen
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 07:45 AM

You need a rest.

You need to have your throat examined to re assure you all is well, or all is not well. An ENT specialist is the only person qualified to do this.

Lets assume your results come back clear, no nodules polyps or signs of acid reflux the chords have not atrophied.

The problem needs assessing as being pyschogenic.Speech therapy is the next option for your road to recovery in addition to taking singing lessons to assist you rediscover your voice. Again it is no use seeking help from an unqualified source, a voice guru or vocal coach....but a properly qualified singing teacher from a recognised authority in music education sadly this does involve expenditure.

Even if your results come back as showing the signs of ageing vocal chords, acid reflux these are both areas that are treatable. The latter via your GP and other health professionals the ageing voice by a singing teacher.

If you have nodules or polyps a rest of several months during which you increase your water drinking threshold should be enough to naturally clear them. If not you will need real time out to allow for surgery and botox.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 09:57 AM

There are some Alexander videos on THIS PAGE.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 09:30 AM

Igot told by an opera singer thst raisins,sultanas,figs are good for the throat.They oil the throat,i do a lot of gigs and i have now had no problems for nearly a year.Dont smoke and never use ice in yoyr drinks,drink warm drinks when performing.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Alice
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 10:36 AM

As this thread started in Feb 06, I'm sure the person is no longer checking it.

For any other singers reading this.... PLEASE do no push your voice, straining it
when you sing. You can permanently damage your voice, cause nodes and other
problems that are very severe. Learn to support your voice to get volume and greater range,
don't push or strain your voice. Once you have caused a sore throat, pain or difficulty
singing or talking, take a break and rest your voice so it can recover.

Happy singing,
Alice

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 10:50 AM

I have had anxiety problems and one of the things I was told by a professional was, for example, when I'm driving not to read adverts that I pass or any writing on the sides/backs of vans etc. I was amazed by how much better I felt just by not doing that. Maybe reading the posters on the wall isn't the best thing to do.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 03:12 PM

You sound better BECAUSE you worry less. Worry less!

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 08:08 PM

I think it is all in the breathing.    You must breath from the diaphram, and not put any strain on your vocal chords or on the throat.    Going back to the basics may help you, find a good teacher to give you a couple lessons in breathing technique.    If you are straining your voice, you are not breathing correctly.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 09:20 PM

Alice

"Supporting your voice" refers to using correct breathing, right? never been quite sure what it means.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 06:16 PM

""Supporting your voice" refers to using correct breathing, right? never been quite sure what it means."

I have come to think of it as meaning: Ensuring that I have got the right amount of breath to do what I want to do at any particular point in the song.

This means thinking about where I need to take breaths in a song without interfering with the rhythm or messing up the phrasing (ie. where are the appropriate 'spaces' in the song where I can take a breath?). I find this approach particularly useful in songs which have high notes - ie. if I know that a high note is coming up I find the nearest breathing 'space' to that note, make sure that I take in an appropriate amount of air in the 'space' and then make sure that I drop my chin for the note itself (it seems counter-intuitive but dropping the chin helps - try it!).

You should note that it is possible to have too much air available - so you need to experiment in order to determine the 'right' amount for any situation. Learning to sing from the diaphragm is definitely the right way to go.

This is my own rather idiosyncratic and pragmatic approach to breathing but other singers suggest to me that there is a better, more 'global' approach - perhaps there is and perhaps someone will teach me one day.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 02:31 PM

Breathing is involuntary. Automatic breathing requires letting of the intercostal muscles
and allowing them to function freely without inhibition. Aerobics help this. When this occurs, then breath support for the voice occurs. When you strain to breathe you put undue stress on the cords and the support muscles.

Stay away from weight training and ballet because these interfere with the breathing support musicles which operate freely and in a somewhat involuntary manner.

Alexander shows relaxation and unhibition in the vocal breathing apparatus. This is done
through overall body relaxation and flexiblity.

Any stiffness is an enemy. The facial muscles need to be relaxed and flexible as well.
Relaxation, however, does not mean letting the muscles of the face or the breath become
dormant or inactive. There is a kind of tension that takes place when the muscles are being used correctly but not the kind of tension produced by stiffness or inhibition. A good analogy would be the swinging of arms while walking fast. This can be relaxed but active. Not rigid.

Coax the voice back gently. Take walks to induce aerobic breathing. Aerobic excercise in a relaxed way is essential to good breathing and breath support for the right amount
of air to go through the cords which approximate to form sound.

Andy Williams and Johnny Mathis are athletic and use aerobic equipment in their exercises.
Regardless of how you feel about their interpretative ability, they are both fine singers.

Eschew drugs and pills. Don't drink coffee because it increases rigid tension. Dairy products create undue mucous. Get good night's sleep and make that a habit.

You can make your voice last. Don't do what Pete Seeger or Woody Guthrie did and that is to raise your chin upward when you sing. It puts strain on your neck muscles and ultimately on your vocal cords.

Modern dance or jazz dancing is a good source of musical aerobics. Note that many of the best singers can dance (well at least freely if not well).

You can keep your voice.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 02:47 PM

If it is wholly treatable, how come Linda Thompson has not been cured?

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: PoppaGator
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 03:22 PM

Relaxation exercises, voice training, lozenges, clean living, etc., all should be explored. Absolutely, no doubt.

However: did anyone notice that "worried man" reports doing entirely OK later in the evening, after a shaky first half-hour, once he had been slowly sipping his one pint of "weak" beer for a while?

Yeah, I know that alcohol tends to dehydrate the body, and certainly concede that excessive drinking is a bad idea. But his guy reports that he rations one beer for himself. Does one have to be an absolute teetotaler to function as a singer? I'm sure that many Mudcatters enjoy an adult beverage or two when on a gig.

Maybe this particular problem could have been easily solved by starting to sip that single mildly-intoxicating beverage a half-hour before stepping on stage, rather than waiting until the last minute. Alleviation of tension in this simple and time-honored method might well have cured worried man's only real problem.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 04:22 PM

I think perhaps your main problem here is simply not warming up properly. The voice doesn't function properly when you start the gig, so you're troubled by that and don't perform well, which worries you, so next time... etc., etc. If you're going to take lessons in anything, I reckon you'd be well served by a good singing teacher who will, in short order, give you some sensible exercises to warm up. A medical check won't do any harm, and may help the confidence. Alexander was an actor BTW, and his successors have a habit of charging an awful lot of money to enlighten you. That isn't to say it doesn't work - lots of musicians have found it helpful - just that it's very costly. Good luck.
KYBTTS

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 09:45 PM

Ok Dr's hat on: any persistent problem, as several have indicated above, should be investigated by an ENT surgeon. (Persisting for 6 weeks or more seems to be the UK criterion)Any changes may be benign, but there's also the potential for malignancy in older age groups, especially if heavy smokers/drinkers. If you get an "all clear" for endoscopy then the other suggestions re relaxation/speech therapy/breathing exercises are appropriate.
I had a scary throat thing about 5 years ago: woke up every night for about 4 weeks with croup and stridor, thought I was breathing my last each night (Well couldn't get breath either in or out!). My singing voice went totally AWOL during this period. Laryngoscopy showed that one of my vocal cords was paralysed: presumed viral cause. It gradually recovered over the next few months as shown by repeat laryngoscopy, tho' I'm not sure if it ever fully recovered. I can sing again, although I think my voice remains different from before. One good thing is I've lost the "break in register" that used to occur at about an octave above middle C, and my lower notes have got lower still.
So please do seek medical advice for any persistent problem.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Derby Ram
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 04:58 AM

Lots of good advice here, especially the vocal warm up and breathing. I've one more thing to add - keep lubricated all the time. It takes about 3 hours for water to reach the parts of the body you want it to reach, so make sure you've had a litre of water before then and keep it topped up.

Cheers

SylviaN

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,Sue Allan
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 05:39 AM

'Supporting the voice'(someone asked above)is using the diaphragm to support your breathin. Breath from the bottom of your lungs and sort of hitch your diaphragm up to support them. Takes instruction - a good singing teacher - and practice.

Any tensing of muscles is therefore only in the lower part of your boday and when you concentrate on that - eventually you just 'think' it and it happens (that's where the practice comes in) - it also has the effect of making you relax your upper body and throat, which puts you in the right place for singing. 'Thinking' the sound in your nose and front of the face is a useful trick too (again, away from throat) as is thinking of yawning just as you take in breath (opens the throat). From my singing lessons and singing in choirs I have also learned that planning where you breathe helps if there is a particularly long line to sing, or one with leaps to higher notes.

Yes, and Alexander Technique is brilliant too.

My personal downfall is probably not drinking enough water and drinking too much wine though. The great danger being that the more alcohol you drink the more you feel relaxed, but your critical faculties go out the window, so you THINK you sound great, but ...!

Sue Allan

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 07:12 AM

Oh, and if you turn to a person to guide you, try to pick one who does not come on like a schoolteacher...

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: LeTenebreux
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 07:30 AM

Beer is a diuretic. My voice has been doing better since I started hydrating with WATER.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Peace
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 11:07 AM

"Its seems to me that its a plain old panic attack.Get it checked just the same.These come out of the blue and unless addressed will crop up at the same place,same time etc.if you accept that this may happen it lessens the fear of it ,hopefully reducing its symptoms."


So then, I take it I'm not the only one who faces them [panic attacks] from time to time. ?

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Bee
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 05:17 PM

I tend towards being a little dehydrated, for various reasons, and I have sinus problems (dey's built wrong). Combine that with nervousness and I can get into difficulties singing. I've found that a glass of cranberry juice a while before singing helps clear mucus, and hydrate everything voice related. But that's just my personal experience, half of which could be psychological: I think it helps, therefore it helps.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,Voice cuts in and out
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:21 PM

This started happening about a year ago. About 35-40 minutes in to my set My voice would totally be blown out, with very little warning. I would go off stage drink some warm water and honey and then it would come back stronger than ever? I started taking this blood pressure medication-fosinopril- around the same time and they said one of the side effects is an annoying tickle in the throat. I never had any vocal problems before (I sing from the diaphragm) but I've never been 50 years old before either. Does this scenario sound familiar?

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST,Tommy K. Voice cuts in and out
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:28 PM

This started happening about a year ago. About 35-40 minutes in to my set My voice would totally be blown out, with very little warning. I would go off stage drink some warm water and honey and then it would come back stronger than ever? I started taking this blood pressure medication-fosinopril- around the same time and they said one of the side effects is an annoying tickle in the throat. I never had any vocal problems before (I sing from the diaphragm) but I've never been 50 years old before either. Does this scenario sound familiar?

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 06:30 PM

Any of the ACE inhibitor group of drugs - with the suffix -pril - such as fosinopril, enalapril, lisinopril can cause persistent and intractable tickly cough. May take several weeks after starting the drug to come on, and several weeks to go away again after stopping it, so can lead to diagnostic problems! Not everyone who takes them reacts in this way, but if you react to one drug in the group, you will probably have the same problem with ALL ACE inhibitors. Usually prescribed for blood pressure or heart problems, so will need to seek an alternative (don't stop without medical advice!)
Haven't heard of them causing the voice problems that Tommy K describes, tho' may be worth looking at alternative medication, not in the Ace inhibitor group, to see if that resolves the problem (but bear in mind the possible time lag for any improvement)

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: BDenz
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 03:54 PM

The biggest help I've found over the years has been yoga. Not only does it teach you to breathe better, but it also teaches you to relax. There are still certain performances that I "freeze up" at -- usually if the venue is too warm or people are wearing a lot of perfume (did I mention that I'm asthmatic, too? Doesn't help, believe me). For about 20 minutes before I sing, I stand in the wings or somewhere that's got the same heat as the stage and just breathe -- good, deep (working up to it sometimes) diaphragmatic yoga breaths.

And what others have said above. I'm in a band with a woman who uses Alexander technique and swears by it. We've done warm-ups side by side for years now and I think the yoga puts me in better stead. But we have different problems -- plus she's a head-voice singer and I'm totally chest-voice (with a marginally integrated break point).

I keep lemon water (warm or cool) with me when I sing. Or club soda (but not ice-cold). Never caffeine. Never milk products (tho I love chai -- that's my treat for afterwards).

Good luck. Let us know what helps.

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Bassman45
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 03:54 PM

Hi Everyone,

I sing for a living here in the UK playing guitar. I really enjoy it but have been having voice/throat problems of late! A few gigs I've had to finish early due to not being able to reach certain notes that I usually get with ease! I've been singing for about 27 years professionally but mostly in bands. Now I'm solo I'm experiencing problems! I drink water mainly on the gigs and have been using Vocalzone pastilles on gig days. I try to rest my voice between gigs as I usually work at the weekends. I've also keyed some backing tracks down using the excellent 'Transcribe' software. I also suffer from silent reflux which means (for those who don't know..) stomach acid travelling up to the throat and affecting the vocal chords. I have had the camera up the nose and looking down my throat treatment and they found nothing. I'm on acid suppressant liquid ('Gaviscon') and tablets called 'Repabrazole' (otherwise known as 'Pariet'. Have also tried Sanderson's Throat Specific Mixture which you can either take neat or dilute with water and gargle! This I've got to try as I've heard it's very good! Taken orally it's the worst tasting medicine ever but they say the worst tasting ones re the best don't they? ;-) I'm booked in to the ENT again for next month but I'm still worried about my singing future! Hot honey and Lemon also is good to take on the gigs with you in a flask! Anyone with any other suggestions please let me know!

Best wishes,

Colin :-)

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 11:41 PM

hello
    Am losing my voice can anybody help? I can hardly go through a song without having the problem of a blocked or cracked voice. I am very terrified as I also have the responsibility of teaching songs in my church, the choristers look up to me. Please help if you can- Mamus

Subject: RE: Serious Voice Problem - Help Required
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 03:34 AM

Don't take any chances, Mamus - see a doctor, preferably an ear, nose, and throat specialist. I know too many good singers who have done serious damage to their voices. Be sure to glance through the other threads on this subject - you'll see crosslinks to them at the top of this page, or you can go here (click).
-Joe-

(I deleted your other message on this subject because it was very similar to your message in this thread, and it was located in a thread about pictures of Mudcatters.)