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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 19 Jul 06 - 07:11 PM The comment "why then do the army or police not provide their own units for vets with mental health problems ?" Reminds me of my experience with someone close to me. I don't know about other countries, but the NZ army has a system and I've seen it work. My mate was in the NZ army for some years and served in Bosnia with the UN Peace Keepers and NATO, he had a particular role there so he came back 'messed up' and was so for some years. Fortunately support was (and still is) there to help him out. In general, if a country expects people to fight and die, there should at least be quality support for those that return home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 19 Jul 06 - 07:00 PM Linfield 0.11 Armagh 3.9 Great to see the truth has brought the Irish back to the site, somehow I imagine the pm's are flying today to get the odd dosser who knows sweet F.A. about Ireland to come on board to defeat this rabble of rebels ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:55 PM Ahhhh, the old roonerspisms are still the best, E... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:52 PM United Ireland by 2016, Keith, what do you reckon? It would be some Independence Day celebration Easter Monday that year, wouldn't it? It's taken 800 years to get this far, Keith (... are you in, or outside the Danegeld, by the way....?) 10 extra years maximum, Keith, and by then, Please God Linfield Football Club will have abandoned their wicked ways, and field a half decent GAA team every Sunday, just for good measure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Epona Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:43 PM "Fettle of kish"...cute. E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:36 PM Thanks Keith for the welcome, and to all the 'lads'... ;-) "2 No. What ever made you think that I did?" This.... "Re your experience with the British Army, it would be helpful to know if you were a volunteer with PIRA" Why should you make such a correlation? Are all Iraqi's, for instance, who are against 'The Allied Occupation', viewed as subversives... ... or just potential ones? It is one thing to re-write history, Keith, quite another fettle of kish however, to invent it.... like that craic about the Civil Rights Movement putting a United Ireland agenda forward quicker than the Armed Struggle could have done. Remember that all the nationalist people of Ireland, Keith, were always known as 'The Enemy'. Brookeborough said it in so many words, and refused point blank (pun intended) to consider the Nationalist goal of self-determination. In the post-9/11 World such nomenclature was, and is, reserved for Al Q and the bhoys. What your take on the phenomenon of the 'Thought Police', Keith? Do you pander to it by any chance, yourself? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Epona Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM :) No problem. E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:21 PM Thanks Epona! I have not read that book, will pm you my details Many thanks! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:28 PM To a point I can understand why they may have wanted to protect his security and if they were fearful of him talking and saying something he shouldn't have, why then do the army or police not provide their own units for vets with mental health problems ? Sadly the troubles kept us busy with many security force members on our books. Found they dropped them like stones once they had been in with us. Medical retirement was offered very quickly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,JAck Campin Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:54 AM Back to this: : I remember treating a guy in a psychiatric unit who had been a serving soldier in the North : of Ireland. He came over to spread the word of God. Very nice guy, clearly unwell,very psychotic. : [...] Remember these two guys who used to visit him a lot asked to see me. They asked had he : gone into his service over here much ? I said just a few times, nothing detailed. One replied : that we would prefer if you tried to discourage any conversation. Best no one knows his : background or what he belonged to in the interest of personal security. What that reminds me of is the conscripted soldiers who were used as guinea pigs for nuclear or chemical warfare experiments and then silenced by the Official Secrets Act, preventing them getting appropriate treatment because they couldn't tell their doctors what had happened to them. In the case of the nerve gas experiments, there is a treatment window of a few weeks after which the damage becomes irreversible; the Army's policy of secrecy had the effect of turning a serious but treatable injury into a lifelong crippling disability. It would have been in that man's interest for you to get those "two guys" photographed, frogmarched to the door by some large strong nurses and told never to come back. His problem at that point wasn't with the IRA any more (if it ever had been), it was with the Army. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:43 AM An example of this in my own town was the four main Linen producing factories. They were all English owned and the conditions and wages paid to the employees was simply slavery.I have no doubt this was the same in other parts of the U.K. The only difference we had was Catholics worked the looms and the protestants worked in the offices.And when it came to the elections, catholics were not allowed to vote. The factory owner got the votes of the number of catholics he employed ! We must remember both traditions fought the English together in the 1798 rebellion. A wise man said then, "The Irish get on well when they have a common enemy". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: stallion Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:21 AM alluded to inan earlier post Big Mick "I have always said that when one looks at the history of Ulster fairly, then they will understand that historically this has very little to do with Catholic/Protestant or Loyalist/Republican Nationalist. It's roots lie in the industrialist mentality that felt as though their rights to profits were God given and that the working class were the tool given to them to be used as they saw fit." THe real tragedy of the film was the civil war, which appears to be a straight fight between socialists and the Irish elite driven opposition. I know, that is a gross over simplification, I am aware that "battle fatigue" etc come into the equation. What did come across is the hopelessness of ordinary people caught up in it, if you cracked under torture then you were branded a quisling and, if enduring that wasn't enough, shot by the people you had "informed on". We are not talking sophisticated Machevelian politico freedom fighters we are talking simple folk, in simple jobs who probably had little experience of the outside world other than that which was taken to them, the whole business was a tragedy. Relating to the "encouraged by Industrialisation"(my words), it was surely that that put paid to slavery, slave owning required land to feed them at "no cost" during hard times, having slaves in factories would have been uneconomic as they had a value one would have to spend money to maintain ones investment, as soon as it was realised that "wage slavery" had all the benefits of slavery without any of the responsibilities, then slavery was dead in the water. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:35 AM For once the truth has been said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:27 AM and there are those who tell fibs about what other members say. Welcome back Epona. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:19 AM Nice to see you here again Epona. "Doing this on my Blackberry" Sounds nice ! Yes things haven't changed much, the loyal few with a mind and voice for the truth is still here, and of course there is still Haemorrhoids (also known as Piles) here too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,observer Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:17 AM Epona, Nice to see you are still observing, You enjoyed the movie I must make an effort to see it. I have never tried it yet on a Blackberry, must try it sometime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Epona Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:13 AM I leave for a bit and things are relatively the same! Kiwi, welcome to the group.Have you read Tom Barry's "Guerilla Days"? If not, I'd be happy to post it over to you. I'm amassing quite a library of Irish history books. Good to see we're multiplying, hey Tir? On the serious side, though, for centuries, the people in power have been the ones to dictate the contents of history. The lives of the poor or insignificant were forgotten, discarded. Our lives today, though, have given us the opportunity to tell our stories or those that have been forgotten. Keith, this film tells a moving and important piece of history. It may not speak to your taste or sensibilities, but it doesn't make the film any less valuable to society. If his work makes even one person think about the Irish struggle for freedom then it's done its job. Great to see you guys again! Welcome aboard, Kiwi. E PS Forgive any spelling mistakes. I'm doing this on my Blackberry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:15 AM Tir Chonaill Welcome back. Re your 2 questions 1 To be balanced, an historical film should look at the rights and wrongs of both sides of a conflict. 2 No. What ever made you think that I did? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:34 PM 100 so there! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:34 PM Keith A, the King of Thread Drift and the Prince of Petty... A 'more balanced' account would involve re-writing history, Keith, and I know how you would hate to be accused of being guilty of such. Do people who get mistreated by the British Army, automatically become guilty of subversion, in your eyes? Supporting your boys in the Gulf would lend tacit support for such an inference |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:33 PM I guess that is the same 'GUEST,DB' that refers to Moslems as 'fermenting leper shit'? A fine caring human being if ever there was one. :D (tG) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:27 PM Go on guest DB, get it off your chest, I really love to hear it ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST,DB Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:59 PM A load of IRA worshipping rubbish. Hang the murderers I say! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 06 - 11:40 AM Still happening today, Mick. I would hazzard a guess that given the choice of George W or Osama Bin Laden most of your countrymen (and mine for that matter!) would choose the former. Hide your evils by giving people a greater one to hate. Happens all the time. Even here on mudcat! ;-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Big Mick Date: 18 Jul 06 - 11:16 AM Fair enough, DtG. I will buy that as an honest explanation. I have always said that when one looks at the history of Ulster fairly, then they will understand that historically this has very little to do with Catholic/Protestant or Loyalist/Republican Nationalist. It's roots lie in the industrialist mentality that felt as though their rights to profits were God given and that the working class were the tool given to them to be used as they saw fit. When the working class, Protestant and Catholic alike, started to realize they had more in common than not, the English industrialists played the card that is with us today. As this whole phenomenon interbred with itself it was twisted into the intellectual wreckage that is strewn all about 6 counties. At the very root, of course, it goes all the way back to the plantation policies, but the catalyst, or straw that broke the back, lies squarely in the industrial age. That is why it is easy for the English apologists to use demagogery to make their points. There is several centuries of acts to choose from. But when one approaches it with an overview, it is clear who the villain is and what the solution is. It is also clear where, thanks be to God, it will end. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:43 AM Lil' Kiwi hope you got my message this morning okay ? Please take the advice ! Don't feel you have to ever answer any stupid silly questions here, like "Can't you sleep" we all just ignore them. It's always nice to see people from other countries visit and listen to the true facts about that the English did in Ireland. Sometime you should consider starting a thread of your own, but be warned, a certain member is well noted for posting as a guest to support his rubbish claims when he finds it's going against him ! don't be put off by this, it's the norm to the rest of us here and we expect it. Anything you want to know about Ireland please just ask, those of us who know what we are talking about are always glad to help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:59 AM Oh dear. I got off lightly then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: ard mhacha Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:45 AM He may have seen that photo of you playing at soldiers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:37 AM Blimey. I don't often get called dude. Welcome to Mudcat. keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:22 AM I've already 'joined' - well, enough so that there is no longer 'guest' attached to my nic. I think that's rather sly of you to add "We are not always like this. If you do, expect some Mr. Nice Guy private messages from sweeney. You have just seen how slickly he tells a lie, and when confronted, ignores it and carries on." Tut tut tut! Not cool dude. I shall freely make up my own mind as I always do. I never let petty things such as that sort of comment of yours influence me one way or other. One thing I like about the geographic isolation of NZ is that it allows significant events to be 'viewed' as part of the bigger picture (unless something happens here or to us directly) and things like bias and coersion can be left aside, well once you've sifted through the news media that isn't controlled by certain groups. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:09 AM The changes in my Ireland have been brought about by public opinion throughout the world. I absolutely agree sweeney. IRA atrocities alienated some public opinion, but the old bigotted regime would not have been tolerated any more. L'il Kiwi, Your last post made me think of a song I sometimes do. Somewhere in Otago by Martin Wyndham- Reeves. Do you know it? It has the lines I met a girl of Maori blood, She'll be good for me I know, Think I'll wed and settle down, Somewhere in Otago. Sorry I was supicious of you at first. We really have had some frauds on here. I hope you will think about joining. We are not always like this. If you do, expect some Mr. Nice Guy private messages from sweeney. You have just seen how slickly he tells a lie, and when confronted, ignores it and carries on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:04 AM Fiolar, this is a old ploy to get government grants. The nationalists in Belfast make a great carnival each March and the world attend it. So they are trying to get in on the act. They are hate filled beyond belief. I worked with two of them for years and got on well. When my mother died a few years back both of them came to my home to pay their respects. They told me together that they would not be attending the funeral as they do not enter the Catholic Church ! Christ better if they had said nothing. I go to all funerals, even D.U.P. ones ! Says more about them I feel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Fiolar Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:58 AM I'm not sure if I posted this recently but I understand that some of the top folk in the Orange Order are considering turning the 12th of July marches into a carnival type operation in the same way as the Notting Hill one in London. Pigs might fly? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:38 AM The changes in my Ireland have been brought about by public opinion throughout the world. The fact that Irishmen would NEVER lay down under your hate filled army told the world what we were made of. I honour each and every one of our volunteers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: GUEST Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:28 AM K.A.H. Who's it down to then ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 07:03 AM Sweeney, I know that there are still some bad people. There always will be. And some racists still in Alabama too I expect. But things have changed. No thanks to IRA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:59 AM That's pretty much it regarding NZ. They were treated from equals right from the start. Never oppressed and quite openly took on European ways into their own culture too whether that be clothing or games etc. A sort of integration/assimilation (right words?) and even mixed marriages from very early on too. (I once had a girlfriend of Maori/Welsh mix, and damn is she a hot thang!) Yes, let's unite against oppression. Fight for freedom, justice & peace. A world of different cultures, but equal peoples. Dreams are free, but we can do stuff - just gotta get out there and actually DO IT :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:28 AM I'm not to sure, Mick. These arguments about how things would have happened had things been different are nothing but speculation and have little use apart from an excercise in philosophy. I think that the British government today is as different from the ones of the 60's as can be and we would get a lot further now anyway but that, as I say, is beside the point. As you quite rightly say the governments involved should be concentrating on getting things right as soon as possible. This type of film and documentary will always raise blood pressures on all sides. I class myself as English (even though I am only 1/4 that nationality!) and do not find any shame in anyone pointing out that the successive governments of my country committed some shameful acts. They committed the same acts on the ordinary working people of their own country. It should be understood, by everyone, that the ordinary man in the street in Manchester, Munster or Mumbai has nothing to do with these ridiculous power struggles. That our governments have got an enormous ammout of people hating the British/Irish/Moslem/Jew is a testament to how effective they have been. What we need to do is to stop believeing their lies and unite against any form of oppression. Fat chance unfortunatley. The bastards have us too well controlled for that:-( One point in the favour of the British government. They have shown how well things can be done. Ask our friend from New Zealand - he has already pointed out that the Maoris are quite happy. It was a British treaty that gave them their status so perhaps they are not all bad after all:-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:19 AM Five European families either burned out or stoned out of their homes over the weekend here. All in Loyalist areas. A fifteen year old boy was beaten to death in a loyalist area five weeks ago, police said his only crime was being a Catholic. At the 12th bonfire in the area where this child was murdered, they burnt a mock up of him with the sign around his neck "Another good Cathoilc " History turning where exactly ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:05 AM Yes Paul and Mick. Alternate versions of history. Who knows. But the B Specials and the Stormont government were got rid of before the IRA killing machine got into high gear. I think and believe that steady progress would have followed any way, and quicker without the killing. I believe that the page of history had turned against the sectarian bigots of NI, just as it had against the racist bigots of the US southern states. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Paul Burke Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:44 AM Keith, I think we're at the point where "versions of history" play an important part. I don't think the Civil Rights movement was hijacked by the IRA. Indeed, the Official IRA was not campaigning at the time. It's more that the Civil Rights approach was killed by the reaction of the RIC- remember the B Specials? The IRA split when ethnic cleansing by the "Loyalists" started, and some people (in my opinion understandably) thought fighting back was more likely to stop it than singing We Shall Overcome. The siege of Bogside finally confirmed PIRA as the defenders of Nationalist areas. If what has happened since has been a rake's progress to gangsterism as many say, it wasn't how it started. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Big Mick Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:16 AM Pure rubbish, Keith. Had there not been an armed struggle bringing light to the plight of the Catholic in the North of Ireland, the same old gerrymandered crap would have gone on and on. Had not the struggle gone on, there would have been nothing to draw the world's attention to the collusion between Crown forces, RUC, and the Orange militias. What dear old England wanted was for the Irish to be nice wee lads and lasses and let her exercise her mandate from God over their lives, property and country like good little colonials. And no one has told lies to discredit you, but rather the policies of your government. Your use of this tactic also discredits your arguments. You attempt to claim victim status, and thereby shift the focus. The focus must remain with the root of all the troubles. Your approach shows how disengenous your arguments are. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:15 AM Yes Lil' Kiwi you are correct in your views of the situation here.I remember the actions of the british forces of occupation in the North throughout my lifetime all too well. Read up on Plastic and rubber bullet murders of children, shot at point blank range by these brave men. Please read up on how the British worked hand in glove with the Loyalist paramilitaries in the murders of innocent Catholics. Never allow yourself to be put off by the odd irritant here, great to see you. Best wishes from Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: ard mhacha Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:11 AM Two grat books on the Net, John McGuffin`s Internment and The Guinea Pigs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:21 AM http://www.historyireland.com/magazine/features/13.3FeatA.html Kiwi, Ithink that unity would have had to wait for a Nationalist majority, but everything else up to and beyond good Friday agreement etc. could have been achieved decades ago by the non violent Civil Rights movement had it not been hijacked by IRA. Such a belief in not conducive to proof, but look at what the US Civil Rights movement achieved. Sweeney, did you mean me when you said"the type that have to search the net for some British sponsored report and then select little bits out of it," If so please say so and withdraw it. I have only posted one such in recent years. It was from an Irish History journal, by a lecturer in Irish History at the Irish University. Pro British? His sources are all given and are all Republican publications. I did cut some bits but only because there is a maximum 2 screen paste in rule. Here is a link to the article.http://www.historyireland.com/magazine/features/13.3FeatA.html I hope that people will read and see if I changed the meaning with my small cuts. To those who say I am too confrontational, I ask how you would respond to lies told to discredit you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:42 AM I don't agree at all. I think British & Unionist actions have proven much otherwise. If you really feel as such though, I'd like to know then what was the alternative before recent times? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:01 AM L Kiwi, If you had been following these discussions in recent weeks, you would know that we have been plagued by Guests who turn out not to be who they claim to be. There is no reason why you should not make your first ever post at 4 o'clock on a winter's morning, but it made me wonder. Beachcomber, my reply to you was too brief. I know that the Tans were at least as bad as Loach portrays them. Revulsion at their behaviour should have driven people to support the IRA. But the IRA committed apalling atrocities too that also revolted decent people. I have read that the film glosses over this and therein lies its imbalance. When support for IRA was put to the test in 1939, the people turned their backs on them. Nationalists will soon be the majority vote in NI. Unity will follow. Good. Previously IRA were a minority of a minority. Unity was not brought a day nearer by any of the bombs they planted or people they shot. It is literally true that they would have achieved it sooner by making love instead of war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Big Mick Date: 17 Jul 06 - 08:57 PM The Kesh, the Blocks, this is exactly what I am talking about. There is this concerted effort to try and whitewash all that by changing the premise. Who was it that said if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth? Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Divis Sweeney Date: 17 Jul 06 - 07:57 PM Christ just had a guy tell me on another thread that the British concentration camps in South Africa during the Boer war were a one off, never repeated-hence,and was not British government policy. I must have f...... imagined that camp at Long Kesh that held hundreds of men for over four years without any charge or court appearance, known to most of you as internment ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley' From: Lil' Kiwi Date: 17 Jul 06 - 07:30 PM Ta DtG. However, the Maori people have no desire to 'own' the whole country. Their 'issue' as I understand it is that the Treaty of Waitangi has not in some areas been fully honoured by the government. |
